Review: 'The Walking Dead' - 'Killer Within': Hard labor
The prison group is divided, while Andrea gets to know the Governor
Sarah Wayne Callies as Lori on "The Walking Dead."
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A review of tonight's "The Walking Dead" coming up just as soon as we take a bunch of women to play at Augusta...
Carl Grimes is a kid who spent most of the second season of "The Walking Dead" as the butt of jokes (including an always-funny Tumblr) about how he was always wandering off and winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lori Grimes is a woman who spent the show's first two seasons making a series of choices that couldn't help but make her seem unsympathetic.
Yet for all of the series' prior missteps with these characters and others, Glen Mazzara and company (this time including writer Sang Kyu Kim and director Guy Ferland) understand that there are certain truths that are going to hit on a brutal, visceral level if they execute them properly, and Lori and Carl's goodbye scene was the most emotionally devastating moment "The Walking Dead" has given us since Shane started shooting all the zombies in Hershel's barn.
Whether or not I care about Lori — and I do think the early episodes this season made her self-aware enough that I did feel bad for her and the end of her marriage — the idea of any mother opting to sacrifice her life for the sake of her unborn baby (and the hope for the future that he or she would represent), and having to say goodbye to the son who had to grow up much too quickly is an incredibly powerful one, and a choice that Sarah Wayne Callies absolutely sold in her farewell episode. And however annoying Carl has been at times in the past, when he tells Maggie that he has to be the one to put his mother down — particularly with the way that Chandler Riggs says, "She's my mom" — is devastating.
The world of "The Walking Dead" is a savage place where people have to make horrible decisions all the time, but there are some choices that shouldn't have to be made, even in this environment, and the reactions of Lori, Carl, Maggie and then especially Rick (Andrew Lincoln always at his best when Rick is at his most broken) drove home how unfair all of this is. An incredible sequence that, like the barn massacre, left me shaking by the end of it.
The scenes leading up to Lori's sacrifice were a bit more wobbly, though, both at the prison and over in Woodbury.
The Woodbury scenes continue to demonstrate the pull a man like the Governor would have over Merle or Andrea, but because we know more than Andrea does, it's hard not to view her as somewhat gullible, even in these clean and cozy environs, and even with some good liquor. And because the show is still expecting us to fill in so many blanks about Michonne, and about Michonne and Andrea's months together between seasons, it's harder to invest in the idea that she wouldn't just walk away from this place, with or without Andrea.
As for the prison group running into a whole lot of trouble courtesy of the prisoner Rick locked in the yard, on the one hand, it helps justify Rick's decision to chase after the little guy in the first place. On the other, it seemed like an overly-elaborate plan from someone who probably would have been better off just leaving once he managed to get the gate open. And T-Dog's sacrifice for Carol (who appears to be MIA at episode's end) didn't remotely have the same resonance as Lori's for the baby, because T-Dog has never been a character the writers have even pretended they wanted us to care about. When he started objecting to Rick's plans about the two remaining prisoners, it was shocking to simply hear him expressing an opinion of any kind.
But like I've said, "The Walking Dead" is iffy on middles, but great at beginnings and endings, and that was a pretty incredible ending this week, and one that sets up a whole lot of interesting story possibilities, starting with how Rick and the other survivors will keep a baby alive and safe in this environment.
Once again, let me remind you again of this blog's No Spoiler rule and how it applies to this show, as I've had to delete a bunch of comments the last few weeks that violated it. Basic things to remember before commenting:
1. No talking about the previews for the next episode.
2. No talking about anything else you know about upcoming episodes from other sources — and, yes, that includes anything Mazzara and Kirkman have said in interviews.
3. No talking about anything that's happened in the comic that hasn't happened in the TV show yet. As with "Game of Thrones," the goal is to treat "The Walking Dead" TV show as exactly that, and not as an excuse for endless comparisons with the comics. If you want to talk about the comics, feel free to start up a discussion thread on our message boards.
With that in mind, what did everybody else think?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 255 CommentsJbone
November 4, 2012 at 11:09PM EST Reply to CommentWell Im glad that there is another Tbone to take up the slack for the gang...any chance they just call him Tbone too
Warwick T-Dawg
November 4, 2012 at 11:22PM ESTWhy does everyone call him T-bone?
buckbeat Because T-Dawg never spoke to dispute it.
November 4, 2012 at 11:37PM ESTRyan But Neil Watkins from Accounting is T-Bone.
November 5, 2012 at 12:06AM ESTbuckbeat I see what you did there.
November 5, 2012 at 12:08AM ESTPeter Lynn I figure they'll just call him Two-Dog.
November 5, 2012 at 12:10AM ESTJohn Wait, he wasn't Coco the Monkey?
November 5, 2012 at 12:25AM EST
I agree with what Alan said...the writers haven't shown any interest in making T-Dog a character, except tonight when he had more lines than in any other episode. Of course, that was to set up his death and make the audience remember that we should care about his character and death. He was basically an extra on the show.
November 5, 2012 at 1:09AM ESTAnd another thing, which was heavily talked about in last weeks comments section: This seems to be another sign that the writers are not...sincere (that's the nicest word I can think of) when it comes to their black characters. T-Dog (the only character, who is black, with a gangsta name) has few lines for the entire show and then is killed off, only to (presumably) be replaced by the new black guy (who killed the other prisoner in tonight's episode). Meanwhile, the only other black character is a scowling, other-worldly woman that feels too stereotyped right now. I don't like this part of the show.
keith "Why does everyone call him T-bone?"
November 5, 2012 at 2:02AM ESTBecause he played football and his name started with a T.
guest The guy (Morgan I think) and his kid from the first episode were pretty memorable African American characters. I have faith that the writers will try to do better developing complex characters who arent white or Glen, including Michionne. T-dogg was such a joke to the audience that he had to go. Cant wait two seasons to start trying to flesh out a character. He was always doomed and we all knew it. While some of the things people mentioned are valid points, it really was just the long drag of season 2's poor writing that made T-dogg (the only surviving black member of the group) into a 1 line an episode joke.
November 5, 2012 at 2:09AM ESTkeith The pilot was infinitely better than everything since because it was written and directed by Frank Darabont. Now they just have hacks.
November 5, 2012 at 2:45AM ESTElevation Stitching up a corpse won't accomplish anything......
November 5, 2012 at 11:42AM ESTElevation Lori is dead! Why are people even considering the opposite?
November 5, 2012 at 11:44AM ESTAnthony Foglia Mazarra and Kirkman said in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter that T-Dawg was the heart, always trying to do the right thing, and caring for others. I'm glad they said that, because they did not even attempt to demonstrate that in the show.
November 5, 2012 at 9:58PM ESTBree First, tired of group members getting killed off--appear very weak. In the end I'm guessing there will be survivors. Why not this group? Second, T-Dog was one of the better members. His scene was more emotional than that of Lori (I'm greatly objecting to the writers opinion on this matter). Lori wasn't convincing, just talking. This show is becoming too political.
November 6, 2012 at 1:21AM ESTShannen Sorry T-Dawg. Only one black person at a time allowed on screen. You had to go, lol. I'm actually glad they got rid of that stereotype... Wait, they replaced him with a black man from a prison... Nevermind!
November 7, 2012 at 5:56PM ESTRandian Ryan, That's funny. I'm reading last weeks comments and I saw yours. I'm glad someone has a intact memory.
November 12, 2012 at 3:14PM ESTBetthO
November 4, 2012 at 11:11PM EST Reply to CommentI am shaking. That was incredible. Horrible. So well acted, and well written.
Adam Remember that time that pregnant woman who's face didn't change and who had a belly about the size of a basketball started contractions, went into labor, and then had an impromptu c-section in like 10 minutes?
November 5, 2012 at 6:24PM ESTI guess I'm just cynical, as soon as she had her first groan of pain we knew we were in for a fast forward strait to the end delivery.
You know who are the real idiots? All those moms who take 12-24 hours in labor in the hospital.
Miles Adam, I'm pretty sure a C-section can be done in ten minutes if you are under no illusion of saving the mother's life. This wasn't a natural childbirth, I'm not sure where your quibble is.
November 6, 2012 at 11:35AM ESTDave I Adam, my wife's c-sections once they started were done in under ten minutes. They started right away the first time because she wasn't dilating. Add to that the fact the extenuating circumstances, and Lori feeling things going wrong fast and realizing her chances of delivering and both getting out alive were just about nil, I can see her making that choice. I can kind of agree it would have taken longer except... The stress started the pregnancy, they were in no position to wait it out, she started bleeding (complications perhaps of her previous c-section), felt things were going badly, and they did under duress what seemed the right choice. And she seemed to show face changes when going into labor and especially when pushing. So I'm not really sure what your gripe is.
November 6, 2012 at 3:43PM EST-Cheers
Dave I @TGeorge, unless they're done pretty wittily, I generally find the "/fixed" commentaries pretty lame. As if one cannot share a differing opinion that yours. Of course, it's your prerogative I suppose to watch a show where you find the acting to be horrible. Not sure why you feel a need to correct people for having the opposite opinion.
November 6, 2012 at 3:46PM EST-Cheers
BethO Well, based on your screen names, I feel safe to assume that I am the only one on this thread who has actually given birth and I found it to be very well acted. And I can tell you from experience, that when things go wrong, it can move very quickly. FWIW, my original comment was more about her goodbye to Carl than the birth itself.
November 7, 2012 at 10:12AM ESTMoreTears
November 4, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to CommentBest episode of the series to date.
I agree...maybe the barn episode with Shane is as good.
November 5, 2012 at 1:11AM ESTMatthew I still think the Pilot is the best episode of the series. It was gorgeous and was a great introduction for the world of the series and the character of Rick.
November 5, 2012 at 4:57AM ESTJokin Yes, Matthew, and they haven't come close to topping the pilot. Tonight's show, while emotionally wrenching, still has the feel of cheap audience manipulation rather than the ultra-textural sensient horror of waking up in The Zombie Apocalypse so well-crafted in the Pilot- and they haven't come close to matching it since.
November 5, 2012 at 5:14AM ESTshortstopk My vote is also easily best episode ever. Second best is the premiere this season. Pilot is third, and to me only stood out by comparison to the following episodes. The show is on another level so far this season. The stakes appear to be understood by everyone - writers, actors, characters, etc..
November 5, 2012 at 6:00PM ESTMr Belvedere At this point in its run I don't think anyone should ever be fooled into thinking this show's writing will ever be on par with Game of Thrones for example. But I do think that it is MUCH improved over last season's excruciating writing and character development. It might not be hard to go up from last season but I do give the team kudos for doing it. I do wonder how much of an effect the show runner change at mid-season had on how plodding and ridiculous Season 2 was...
November 6, 2012 at 1:40PM ESTJim
November 4, 2012 at 11:23PM EST Reply to CommentMy daughter and I weren't upset by Lori's death so much as the people's reaction to her death. The reactions were toughtntonwatch. So right about T Dog and the lack of character development, at least he had a noble death.
Mike
November 4, 2012 at 11:24PM EST Reply to CommentIs there any character in the history of television who has ever had to do something worse than Carl did tonight?
Sergio I dont thinks so, but surely there is
November 4, 2012 at 11:32PM ESTguest 888 I recall a few Gem Saloon employees with a very unpleasant task to perform as Al waxed rhapsodic about his past.
November 5, 2012 at 1:14AM ESTjack_is_laughing I'm struggling to come up with one but that was certainly the most f$%&ed-up delivery on TV since the season 1 episode of ER, Love's Labor Lost.
November 5, 2012 at 1:42AM EST
Letting Will Smith come and live with you in your Beverly Hills mansion is worse.
November 5, 2012 at 1:46AM ESTSolid Muldoon The mother on the bus in the last episode of MASH?
November 5, 2012 at 3:43AM ESTRileyJMU When Bodie shot Wallace.
November 5, 2012 at 10:33AM ESThammer time I recall a certain vampire slayer having to send her boyfriend to hell in the season 2 finale... that was a rough one.
November 5, 2012 at 2:25PM ESTGarySF Wow, good call, Solid Muldoon! That was pretty rough.
November 5, 2012 at 3:30PM ESTDeb Close one - "Old Yeller"
November 5, 2012 at 9:37PM ESTJayne Shaun shot his mum, too.
November 5, 2012 at 11:42PM ESTKris Shane doing in his family and himself in The Shield?
November 6, 2012 at 8:00AM ESTMike The only thing on this list that I'll compare to the Carl/Lori thing is the M*A*S*H episode. But that was just a one-off character. The Shane on The Shield thing was bad, but Shane was a bad guy. (Bodie, too.) Besides those, Buffy probably comes closest. But that is girlfriend/boyfriend vs. child/mother. And that child is very innocent to boot!
November 6, 2012 at 11:00PM ESTSERGIO damn, that buffy episode was so long ago... Good one sir
November 7, 2012 at 1:03AM ESTBigDerf Forget Buffy sending Angel to hell.... How bout Buffy freaking DYING.
November 7, 2012 at 4:23AM ESTKyle Rovinsky Not sure, but I bet someone here will come up with some inane Wire reference in answer to your question
November 8, 2012 at 2:57PM ESTMike LOL The Wire reference was made in less than 12 hours.
November 8, 2012 at 7:53PM ESTOne that I just remembered which is similar is the ending of Dexter Season 4. Dexter's poor little baby had something undeserved happen to him, as well as his stepchildren. That went to the same dark, depressing, unredeeming place as this episode.
rcade I don't think Bodie was a bad guy on The Wire. The show made it depressingly clear that being a hopper was often the best career choice available to young black men in his position. He didn't want to kill his friend Wallace. Ultimately he had earned McNulty's respect and he died on his corner, refusing to give up any more ground.
November 9, 2012 at 10:35PM ESTgreg
November 4, 2012 at 11:31PM EST Reply to CommentInsanely great TV.. It's number 1 demographically 18-35 right?
jeves23
November 4, 2012 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentAnd just when T-Dog (Dawg?) was starting to have a character other than the guy who left Merle chained to the rooftop. Great episode from start to finish, with Lori's sacrifice and the aftermath being some particularly stirring acting/writing/directing. How often does a zombie story make you cry? (I'm not ashamed).
Jayne You'd cry more when Merle caught up with him..
November 5, 2012 at 11:44PM ESTMorbo
November 4, 2012 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentSo is Carol dead, or missing? I thought she got out while the walkers were snacking on T-Dawg, but then there was a corpse on the floor at the end that looked like it might've had the red shirt she was wearing.
Also wasn't sure whose shirt they picked up. Might've been hers, or it might've been T-Dawg's.
Caiti No Daryl picked up the scarf that was on Carol's head in the beginning of the episode.
November 4, 2012 at 11:46PM ESTbritt Post a comment...
November 4, 2012 at 11:50PM ESTAndrew I think what we're supposed to take away from that last scene is that Carol got away, but Daryl & the group will think she's dead after finding the scarf. Pretty sure the body was T-Dog's.
November 4, 2012 at 11:54PM ESTJoeInVegas Why was the scarf on the floor? Watching the encore Carol exits through the door wearing it
November 4, 2012 at 11:59PM ESTmgrabois I assumed that was T-Dog's corpse on the floor there, but I was waiting for either it to rise and have to be put down, or for Rick or Darryl to pre-emptively shoot him.
November 5, 2012 at 12:42AM EST
I have no idea where they are taking Carol's character. I hope someplace interesting.
November 5, 2012 at 1:47AM ESTJohnny 5 As long as they don't waste half a season searching for Carol like they did with Sophia, who cares what happened to her.
November 5, 2012 at 2:13AM ESTPrunellaV Chekhov's scarf.
November 5, 2012 at 2:15AM ESTJokin Carol has to be on the Producer's priority list for uninteresting and underdeveloped characters ripe for the next group offing.
November 5, 2012 at 5:17AM ESTFroide I'd thought that was T-Dogg's brown shirt they picked up. But now that you mention it, it probably was Carol's scarf. The others' finding it on the floor near T-Digg's budy justifies her wearing that funny-looking head-wrap; it's a nice device that sets up suspense about what happened to her, and it indicates she had a close call. Had a zombie grabbed her hair rather than the turban, Carol might've ended up like Shane (with a bald spot, after Otis yanked his hair) or worse - like T-Dogg. I doubt she's dead and suspect Carol will be as resourceful on her own and w/o a gun as Michonne, Andrea, and that prisoner hiding in the control room were.
November 5, 2012 at 7:03AM ESTjosh wouldn't Hershel and his daughter have seen Carroll coming out of the door? after Rick and them walk by dead tdawg and out the door Hershel sees them and calls them over.
November 5, 2012 at 10:05AM ESTFroide The prison seems to be a big rat-maze, filled with twists and turns. Maybe Carol went one way after escaping past T-Dog, and Rick, etc. went another.
November 5, 2012 at 10:11AM ESTJakewp11 Josh, THANK YOU. I'm surprised nobody else has noticed that. I thought the same thing when I saw it... it seemed like they just walked out the door where T-dog was, and Herschel and his daughter could see that door from where they were.
November 5, 2012 at 12:25PM ESTbbq_hax0r My thing is, it seems as if Rick (et al.) exited through the same door as Carol yet did not come across her. So unless there were some more sneaky doors in there and she got lost, it seems as if she should be dead. Of course she's like just MIA and I'm overthinking this.
November 5, 2012 at 2:14PM ESTjan It was her scarf. And, of course, she just "happened" to be wearing one on that particular day when she has never, ever worn anything on her head before--at least not that I can remember (I may be wrong). I thought it was a bad plot device: how convenient for her to be wearing it, for the others to find it after the attack, and for the survivors to assume she's dead. If I haven't seen the body--or her as a walker--I wouldn't assume she's dead. Even at the beginning I was wondering why she was wearing the scarf, but after the attack, I knew--easier piece of clothing to be left behind.
November 11, 2012 at 9:06AM ESTTford
November 4, 2012 at 11:35PM EST Reply to CommentOMG tonight's episode was crazy!!!!!
Conner Y. Carol is NOT dead. I dont think i couldve handled the episode with them killing off so many good characters. They picked up he head scarf next to the open door. So she got away
November 4, 2012 at 11:51PM ESTThree Fly Jet Thank gawd none of the characters who died tonight were ever good.
November 5, 2012 at 12:06AM ESTjake ^^ troll.
November 5, 2012 at 12:23PM ESTThat'sright ^^douchebag troll
November 15, 2012 at 1:07AM ESTDanielle
November 4, 2012 at 11:45PM EST Reply to CommentI felt the Lori and Carl's goodbye scene was ruined by the unrealistic suspension in Lori's labor. Once you're in labor, and Lori's labor came on quick and hard, there's no break in which you can have the type of good-byes that they shared. Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but T.V. labor scenes are always so unrealistic. However, I found Rick's response to be very realistic, very human and gut-wrenching.
Augusta native Thats right! Rise up Augusta!
November 4, 2012 at 11:52PM ESTgoofus Post a comment...
November 5, 2012 at 12:20AM ESTgoofus thats the part i could not understand. why was the cescerian necessary? right after the baby is pulled out, maggie and carl walk out to the courtyard. why not go get help?
November 5, 2012 at 12:27AM ESTjack_is_laughing @Goofus: I'm no doctor, but Lori seemed to be losing an awful lot of blood before they cut her. I'm guessing there was a very real threat of something extremely serious happening to her, the baby, or both if they waited. And the only reason they could walk out when they did was that the walkers moved on at that point. They didn't know if they could easily leave or return before that.
November 5, 2012 at 1:38AM EST
Lori had a C-section with Carl, so she had gone through that type of birth before. The blood would show her that something was wrong. I guess she figured that the only chance the baby had was to cut her open. It's not too unrealistic. Plus it got rid of Lori.
November 5, 2012 at 1:50AM ESTFroide I KNOW this is cold and callous, but I think Maggie should have contrived to let both Lori AND the baby "go" without Carl's knowing she did so. Lori, of course, given the baby's difficult position (probably double footling breech) and her hemorraging, couldn't be saved, and had the baby died inside her, the reanimated rugrat would have eaten Lori alive from the inside, just as she feared. More painful, I suspect, than a caesarian, and then Lori would become a zombie, too. But delivering a crying (therefore, zombie-attracting), formula-eating, helpless, needy newborn who's probably Shane's kid, anyway hinders the group's survival. But I concede - it sure makes for some good plot possibilities.
November 5, 2012 at 7:14AM ESTFroide BTW, I'm not completely heartless. Lori's parting scenes with Carl and Maggie were gut-wrenching, and among the most touching on the show so far, second only to Rick's heartbreaking (brilliant) reaction. I also loved Glenn and Maggie's scene - guess they'll raise the baby.
November 5, 2012 at 7:21AM ESTDanielle I understand why she needed a C-section since that's how Carl was delivered, but how did she get her labor pains to go away long enough to say a heart-felt good-bye to Carl? That's just not how labor works. Once it starts, it only gets more intense unless you have an epidural and we know Lori did not have one. Anyway, since the whole premise of the show in unrealistic, I have to let this slide along with a whole bunch of other things.
November 5, 2012 at 7:43AM ESTlisa Ok, so the reason why women are highly encouraged to have multiple csections after their first one is b/c during a cesetion a dr has to cut into the uterus wall. once its healed, its not very strong anymore, natrula childbirth can cause a huge rip in the wall, and make the mom bleed out, and cause terrible harm to the baby! thats what is sounds like happened here! i have not seen the episode yet, but everything i have ready, on this blog leads me to believe this! even with all the problems she caused, she is still a mother, leaving both her children in a horrible, horrible world!
November 5, 2012 at 10:05AM ESTMark in Omaha Thanks Lisa, that's an explanation that makes sense. Where the scene went south for me was I didn't believe that she was in that much danger, they showed a little blood but no evidence that she was hemorraging and losing that much blood. It's not like they are afraid to show the gore. So I'll buy the premise, but I don't think they did a great job of selling it. Was she alive or dead when Carl shot her?
November 5, 2012 at 11:38AM ESTWhat is the Augusta reference? I know that's where they play the Masters, how was that related to the show?
bbq_hax0r Augusta does not, or did not, allow female members (until just recently and likely after this was shot). So it could be seen as a promoting the "traditional hierarchy" and seems to be something newly empowered people would likely want to challenge. As for the joke made here, who knows.
November 5, 2012 at 2:18PM ESTOaktown Girl What Lisa said about C-sections was the standard medical thinking for decades, and for a long time insurance companies were even insisting on it (not allowing women to even attempt vaginal birth after having once had a c-section). But studies have shown that in many cases not only can women safely give vaginal birth after having had a c-section, but in many cases it's often the safter method, with better outcomes for both mother and baby. It really depends on the situation, and the "once you've had one, you always have to have one" thinking is rather outdated at this point. Fortunately, laws have been made forbidding insurance companies from forcing mandatory second c-sections on women.
November 5, 2012 at 7:31PM ESTDave I @Danielle, maybe not the same thing, however you see women having labor for in excess of twenty-four hours. Plus, she was not fully dilated, just pushing prematurely. So I can buy her not being in full labor and being between contractions. Plus, it's TV. They can have some liberties. Even then, it was not nearly that unbelievable that she'd be between contractions and able to say her good bye before they cut the baby out.
November 6, 2012 at 3:55PM EST-Cheers
Dave I @Oaktown Girl, can I see some citations where vaginal-after-c-section is safer? I know some who have had babies vaginally after c-section. I also know of people who tried having babies vaginally after c-section, had pretty bad complications, and one that almost had to have an emergency vertical c-section (up and down, not side to side) because of it. Most medical staff I've ever talked to agree after you've had one c-section it is safer, or at least preferred by the doctors, to have a c-section. I would like to see studies disproving Lisa's argument though if you have any handy.
November 6, 2012 at 3:59PM EST-Cheers
Oaktown Girl @Dave - hi. There are actually a lot of links I could post for you, but if I post more than one I'll get flagged as spam, and besides you can Google for yourself, of course. But here's a url for one from the Mayo Clinic that goes over many situations of why or why not a woman might choose to have vaginal birth after having had a c-section previously:
November 7, 2012 at 5:14AM ESThttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vbac/MY01143
Here's a snippet I'll put in brackets:
[Years ago, a C-section ended any hope of future vaginal deliveries. But today, thanks largely to changes in surgical technique, VBAC is possible in many cases. In fact, an estimated 75 percent of women who try VBAC have a successful vaginal delivery.
VBAC isn't right for everyone, though. Sometimes a pregnancy complication or underlying condition prevents the possibility of a successful VBAC. Many local hospitals don't offer VBAC because they don't have the staff or resources to handle emergency C-sections.]
The article above mentions all the possible risks involved, including the one you described above. It also mentions the benefits of v-birth after c-section, especially for women planning large families because c-sections get more complicated each time it is performed.
Shireen @Dave, Oaktown girl is correct. As doctor with a diploma in obstetrics, I can attest to this. The risks of vaginal birth after caesarean are low enough that the hospitals I work in actively encourage a trial of labour in otherwise low risk women, as long as they are monitored and in a tertiary hospital. Caesareans carry their own risk, and as O.G says, the more, the riskier.
November 8, 2012 at 4:32PM ESTCheers.
Shireen.
Ellen M.
November 5, 2012 at 12:14AM EST Reply to CommentAs much as I was always annoyed by Lori - I never expected this type of demise for her or anyone. I am not sure how to feel about what Carl had to do - part of me was emotionally jolted and thought this was a singular moment on television. Another part of me was wondering if we are becoming really desensitized by seeing such things because they set a future standard for shocking us.
The performances this season have been so far above what they have been in previous seasons and that has been amazing to watch. I didn't tune in for that initially - now it is something to behold.
I have mixed feelings about how they got here - but they have raised the stakes for the story and characters in a way I never expected.
I agree...I didn't expect her demise, and certainly not like this. But having said that....THANK GOD SHE IS GONE!!! I couldn't stand her character! I think it says a lot that people on message boards care about T-Dog (who has had very little to do) and rip Lori (who was the second lead)...also, on the Talking Dead show afterward, they barely even mentioned Lori (in relaton to T-Dog)!
November 5, 2012 at 1:15AM ESTMy take on this is that her character was easily sacrificed...she didn't have many fans. Undoubtedly the writers new this. Maybe she became expendable. LORI IS GONE! YES!!!
fresser28 Yeah. Lincoln did the grief thing pretty well at the end, but so happy that Lori is gone. If we're supposed to feel horrible sadness at her demise - um, sorry. She was awful. They (and the series) are much better off without her.
November 5, 2012 at 3:05AM ESTDo feel sorry for Carl, though. That kid's the poster child for PTSD.
Sully I thought Lori's actions were actually really selfish in a way. It seems like they are portraying it like she made the ultimate sacrifice for her child but she basically saddled somebody else with a newborn baby which is a huge responsibility in the real world, let alone the Walking Dead world where you constantly have to run for your life and a baby slows you down and hinders your ability to fight. That is going to impact the whole group, people who did not choose to have a baby. Plus she left Carl and Rick with this huge void in their lives. She basically took the easy way out in my eyes.
November 6, 2012 at 9:34AM ESTDave I So Lori sacrificing her life via being cut open with a knife and no anesthesia to save her baby's life is selfish, and you're glad she's dead? Wow. Tough crowd.
November 6, 2012 at 4:51PM EST-Cheers
Razorback
November 5, 2012 at 12:15AM EST Reply to CommentI thought this was one of the stupidest episodes that was still emotionally great. If you think it was "well written" then your bar is very low for quality. Yes, the ending was great but the majority of it was badly executed.
Elaborate. What parts were badly written? Because of the nature of this show, it's necessary to suspend belief for much of the plot. I'm not sure I agree with what you're saying, but I do believe there are moments (such as Andrea's sudden gullibility) that don't feel well written.
November 5, 2012 at 1:17AM ESTkronicfatigue
November 5, 2012 at 12:24AM EST Reply to CommentI know that if I suspected the Governor of mass murdering a whole team of Army what-have-yous, the first thing I would do is sarcastically hint about it to said Governor. WTH kind of plot is that? She should have smiled at the governor and then gone to Andrea and said "we have to get out of here, there were bullet holes and fresh blood in the jeep". Instead, she plays her hand to the Governor and then is only vague to Andrea. Terrible.
Yeah...they are not writing her character well. I don't really understand Michonne and Andrea's relationship. I feel like we need their backstory to see why Michonne wouldn't just leave Andrea there...and maybe more importantly why Andrea wouldn't trust Michonne's instincts, especially after all they (evidently) have been through.
November 5, 2012 at 1:19AM ESTnormajeanmonster I said almost the same thing to my roommate last week about Michonne...if you are suspicious of somebody but are in close proximity and completely powerless (a prisoner in essence) an intelligent person would smile and bow and never let their suspicions show. I would love to play poker against her.
November 5, 2012 at 1:41AM ESTFroide I agree. Michonne needs to remember the body they saw "strung up like a Christmas ornament" just outside the camp. I suspect that hapless person was a dissident the Guv'nor ordered hung there as punishment and a warning to those in his camp. Michonne had better grow a poker face and learn to hold her tongue or hit the road, already, pronto.
November 5, 2012 at 7:27AM ESTDanielle Michonne only has one look on her face: angry. It's getting kind of boring.
November 5, 2012 at 7:49AM ESTFroide P.S. It wouldn't be easy for Michonne to hit the road solo now, as she's killed the jawless, armless zombies who'd served as repellents/camouflage and has no one else to watch her back if Andrea doesn't join her. Michonne can't easily replace the zombies, because she likely dismembered her two before they turned.
November 5, 2012 at 8:36AM ESTAnd all along - but especially now that Michonne's unwisely communicated her suspicions and animosity to the Governor - she's got to worry that if she leaves, she'll be hunted down and shot like the National Guard or strung up like a Christmas ornament. She doesn't know there's another option: her severed head could land in the Guv's fish tank.
Notice how even Merle's raring to go but is loathe to leave w/o the Guv's permission, and how the Guv's not granting it. I spell rebellion ahead; racist Merle might team up with Michonne.
Bryan L Have to agree here. This part was poorly, poorly written and executed. Nobody would be so stupid as to tip her hand like this. This isn't discovering someone cheated on a test at school or something. The stakes are life and death, and I think the writers forget that constantly. And frankly, the Governor would have Michonne killed pretty much immediately after she revealed her suspicions.
November 5, 2012 at 10:03AM ESTDaniel Damn right guys. Michonne can't be both smarter than everyone else . . . and also a lot dumber. (Can't wait to get some back story on her, though.)
November 5, 2012 at 11:54AM ESTbbq_hax0r Absolutely, Michonne is a terrible terrible character. This show does better when they deviate from the comic and focus on a good TV show. Bringing in a flashy and popular comic character may work in a comic, but it is falling flat on its face for TV. Seriously, Michonne is such a terrible character at this point, it's ridiculous.
November 5, 2012 at 2:27PM ESTThey REALLY need to flesh out the history between Michonne and Andrea, otherwise this whole thing seems ridiculous.
Froide REVERSAL OF MY EARLIER COMMENT ABOUT HOW THE BODY GOT HUNG FROM THE TREE: "Michonne needs to remember the body they saw 'strung up like a Christmas ornament' just outside the camp. I suspect that hapless person was a dissident the Guv'nor ordered hung there as punishment and a warning to those in his camp."
February 10, 2013 at 9:53AM ESTNovember 5, 2012 at 6:27AM EST
After watching TWD marathon this weekend, I now think the body hanging in the tree might be the same one Andrea and Daryl saw when looking for Sophia. That person had left a note stating he'd strung himself up after being bitten. Walkers had eaten the flesh off his legs and the reanimated corpse had turned into a writhing, moaning zombie, so Andrea convinced Daryl to shoot an arrow into its head to put it out of its misery.
TheViewer
November 5, 2012 at 12:29AM EST Reply to CommentThat scene when rick hears the baby crying and then the next 4 min... best acting i've seen in while i was truly stunned
Rob D
November 5, 2012 at 12:35AM EST Reply to CommentThis show is so frustrating. I almost want to give up on it, then tonight's final minutes were so gut wrenching. Just incredible.
Although, I am dreading the "baby in peril" element that we might be in for now. I don't like it in horror movies, and I don't want to see it in this show either. I know this show is supposed to be bleak and unforgiving, but... No thanks.
It sounds like a knee-jerk "I'm done with this show!" comment your about to make. Yet here you are.
November 5, 2012 at 1:21AM ESTROB D @KRO LIN, as Alan says, please comment on the show, not on each other.
November 5, 2012 at 9:58AM ESTOther Scott
November 5, 2012 at 12:41AM EST Reply to CommentI thought this was a fantastic episode, and don't really get Alan's objections:
1. Michonne isn't going to walk away without Andrea because of how important it is to have someone watching your back in the zombie infested land. On simple example is if you are by yourself, you can never really sleep at all in any sort of safety, with two people you have one watching. At this this point, Michonne believes she has basically convinced Andrea to leave anyways, so there isn't a need to leave without her.
(On a side note, if they leave there is no way they survive. The governor would send a bunch of men to track them down and kill them as soon as they are out that door. You can't have people wandering around who know about his town.)
2. Andrew was better off leaving how exactly? On your own in zombie infested lands with no weapons or real good ways of getting food doesn't sound particularly appealing. He felt if he was going to die, which he probably was, he might as well get revenge on all those who had cast him out. It will be interesting to see how Rick reacts to Andrew causing all that carnage. Only thing he really could have done differently was shot him himself instead of relying on the zombies.
3. T-Dog's departure wasn't supposed to have anywhere near the same resonance. It was a middle of the episode sort of throw-away death, not a major turning point for the show like Lori's was. You can complain about T-Dog never being developed as a character to make something like this resonate, but the episode (and really the season so far) played the hand they were dealt with T-Dog pretty well.
This is a far better show right now than it was at any point in the first two seasons. The question is whether they can keep this level of quality up when things slow down a bit, which they have to at some point.
Michonne is poorly developed. It's really hard to get a grasp on what her decision making would be because we don't have any information on her. However, she apparently did o.k. before meeting Andrea (while on her own)...
November 5, 2012 at 1:27AM ESTYour comment about Andrew doesn't make sense. Rick left him in what he thought was an enclosed prison yard to die from the zombies...but your question makes it sound like he was given a choice to leave. Is that what you were trying to say?
As for T-Dog, I don't think people believe his departure should have the same resonance as Lori's death...but giving him lines all of a sudden felt like it was done just to drive up the emotion for his death scene(I knew he was dead when he became the moral voice of the show during the episode-when he's talking to Rick about letting the prisoner's leave).
Other Scott We are only really 3 episodes into the Michonne era, so there's still time to develop her a lot more. We don't know how long she was on her own before she met Andrea. And just because she had succeeded on her own in the past doesn't mean she can be confident that she can do so indefinitely in the future.
November 5, 2012 at 2:11AM ESTAndrew was left to die, but the courtyard clearly wasn't as enclosed as it appeared. So once he got out of the courtyard, its basically the same as being given the choice to leave, not that Rick intended it that way.
bbq_hax0r "This is a far better show right now than it was at any point in the first two seasons. The question is whether they can keep this level of quality up when things slow down a bit, which they have to at some point."
November 5, 2012 at 2:33PM ESTI enjoyed your comments, my only response is something to think about with the show slowing down. Although it seems like it HAS to slow at some point, this is a show which just made a minor and seemingly irrelevant action (chasing off a convict and ditching him a yard with zombies) into a HUGE episode. It was a seemingly minor blip in a fast paced show and yet we got a whole episode of cause and effect out of it. Which gives me hope they can keep up the pace and not sit around on a farm debating the ethics of killing zombies.
Michonne is a terrible character. I hope they get rid of her. The show is best when they deviate from the comic, the fanboys may be upset, but the show is better. I thought they brought her in to give hope to fans rather than actually somehow making this character work. Trying to balance her and that, bleh.
JudyH After Dale died, Rick decided to spare Randall out of deference to Dale's wishes. Now T-Dawg, after speaking out for the prisoners, is dead. A pattern emerging?
November 8, 2012 at 11:16PM ESTjack strawb ("On a side note, if they leave there is no way they survive. The governor would send a bunch of men to track them down and kill them as soon as they are out that door. You can't have people wandering around who know about his town.)" Except, it would be all but impossible to track Michonne down more than five minutes after she leaves. If she leaves the road, you won't find her. If she hears vehicles, and you know she'll be listening for them, you won't find her.
November 12, 2012 at 7:53AM ESTTravis
November 5, 2012 at 12:44AM EST Reply to CommentWhile it's true that T was never much of a character, I still felt for him once he was bitten and when he sacrificed himself for Carol. Maybe it's because I'm not heartless and jaded.
Lassie The actor who played him was on that silly talk show after TWD last night (and it seems the host was, for once, rather subdued). The actor was discussing his last day on the show and how much he and the cast were going to miss each other - and I felt for him when he was talking about it!
November 5, 2012 at 5:46PM ESTjlara
November 5, 2012 at 12:54AM EST Reply to CommentOmg! What a sad episode. I did add comments of dislike about Lori's character in the past; but the season has been so emotional since the beginning that I cant believe I actually cried tonight. Great mother-son goodbye moment. Just so sad...(tears)
T-dog is gone and ibalso cannot believe it. I'll getover it but is sad as well. I watched talking dead tonigtand he was a guest! At a point he got so emotional too!!! I couldn't believe it. Sad but I'll get over it soon.
On another topic, why would Michknne face almost confront the Governor, specially after she finds so many clues that there is something badly fishy about the guy! Runnnnnnn just say thanks for everything and GO!!!
Oh well ... I know that there is a point on all these plots and mainly is to keep us on the edge of our seat and get reactions like this. So thanks for that!
I agree with you about Michonne. I don't think many fans liked that scene. If she is such a bad ass, then wouldn't she just take off? Shouldn't she be smarter than that?
November 5, 2012 at 1:35AM ESTJeff P
November 5, 2012 at 1:04AM EST Reply to CommentMy 17-year-old son who watched this with me thought Carl never should have been allowed to shoot his mom. I didn't have as much of a problem with it and unlike the C-cut, was happy they did it off screen. Another great episode in a season that's ten times better than the last one.
Froide Carl wasn't so much killing his mother as saving her from becoming a zombie.
November 5, 2012 at 7:34AM ESTJayne All the more reason to spare the kid from this; if they don't have so much as a bandaid and a shot of tequila for mom, they're not going to have a shrink to dispense the years of therapy this kid is going to need after this.
November 5, 2012 at 11:54PM ESTUncle Leo
November 5, 2012 at 1:15AM EST Reply to CommentAlan, what happened to your "other thoughts" section of the review? that was always my favorite part!
Elevation Alan's Walking Dead reviews are so sparse anymore. Kind of sad the top rated show on cable can't get a proper review.
November 5, 2012 at 1:21AM EST
I agree. I wonder if it's the work load. The reviews are part of the fun of the show.
November 5, 2012 at 1:29AM ESTbrandon you realize alan thinks he is above this show right? just like american horror story.....if this show didn't have the ratings and popularity it has he wouldn't even be reviewing it
November 5, 2012 at 1:34AM ESTElevation HitFix should get some more reviewers with all the cable television on these days.
November 5, 2012 at 1:39AM ESTUncle Leo No, I totally love Alan's reviews, my girlfriend and I enjoy reading his take almost as much as watching the show.
November 5, 2012 at 1:49AM ESTIt's not that I think he needs to work harder or any of that nonsense, I was simply saying the "other thoughts" section was lacking. He brought it back for Boardwalk this week and should bring it back for Walking Dead.
The storm had nothing to do with it as they've been gone for many episodes.
Regardless, I hope everyone has been okay since Sandy, Alan especially. I know it's been tough, as I'm an NYC resident. Still, I didn't have to watch my mom deliver a child and shoot her in the face.
sepinwall 1)If I thought I was above this show, I wouldn't review it. I dropped Sons of Anarchy, which is also very popular (both on FX and on our site) because I was running out of things to say about it. I don't think Walking Dead is a perfect show, but it's capable of great moments like we got in the last 10 or so minutes tonight.
November 5, 2012 at 4:18AM EST2)The episodes this season have been fairly streamlined, which I think has been good for the intensity of it but means there's not much left to be Other Thought'ed. I suppose I could have offered a bullet point about how Glenn and Maggie are having sex all over the prison, but I covered what I felt were the important parts of the episode. The length of my review should not be seen as reflective of my feelings about the quality of it. I got much more emotionally out of this one than I did the episode of Boardwalk Empire that aired opposite it, but Boardwalk has a lot more going on in terms of plots, characters, locations, etc., that there are more points to touch on.
3)I had to delete several comments in this thread in which commenters were attacking one another. You want to complain about the quality and/or length of my reviews, go right ahead. But Rule #1 around here is, was and always will be very simple: TALK ABOUT THE SHOW, NOT EACH OTHER. As a reminder:
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/six-simple-rules-for-commenting-on-my-blog-the-sequel
Uncle Leo
November 5, 2012 at 1:16AM EST Reply to CommentAlan, what happened to the "other thoughts" section of the reviews, I always looked forward to your final tidbits!
Elevation
November 5, 2012 at 1:23AM EST Reply to CommentI hated Lori, but that was one of the more emotional television scenes I've ever witnessed. I felt so horrible for Carl having to execute his mother. I would have cried a little, but luckily I was at another man's house, so I kept a stiff upper lip.
Elevation
November 5, 2012 at 1:24AM EST Reply to CommentI should have known something bad was about to happen to T-Dawg when his character actually expressed an opinion about the prisoners. I have a feeling we're about to get 8 episodes of Rick suffering through paralyzing regret over treating the prisoners so bad in the beginning.
I hope you are wrong. There are other characters on the show that deserve screen time...it would be nice to have their story level step up.
November 5, 2012 at 1:56AM ESTFrank
November 5, 2012 at 1:27AM EST Reply to CommentWoman sacrifices herself to save her soon-to-be-born baby. This was great...when Darla did that on Angel.
lol. Awesome. Nice catch. Darla was hot. I miss that show.
November 5, 2012 at 1:31AM ESTjack_is_laughing Darla's death didn't have anywhere near the emotion or power that this scene did. I actually don't think that scene in Angel was as well-written or acted. But also because that would have been the third time Darla died. Not a huge loss when an evil reincarnated vampire goes poof.
November 5, 2012 at 1:47AM ESTkeith In backhanded fairness to the Walking Dead writers I think it's more likely they never watched Angel than ripped it off.
November 5, 2012 at 1:54AM EST
No, Darla's death didn't have that impact...Angel was a fun show, but not too terribly deep.
November 5, 2012 at 1:58AM ESTAs for whether the writers of the Walking Dead ripped off Angel, i don't believe they did either. But it was a nice comparison/catch by Frank.
mrbilliam I thought that too! But that scene in Angel didn't go as much for the emotional devastation as it did for a moment of pure shock and awe (that episode was the beginning of a big arc of awesome for Angel).
November 5, 2012 at 9:58AM ESTkro_lin
November 5, 2012 at 1:34AM EST Reply to CommentThis episode feels like a pivotal episode of the show. I don't believe the show will resemble what we've been watching for much longer. And I like the balls it takes to go where this show seems to be heading. Very dark, very good.
GarySF
November 5, 2012 at 1:34AM EST Reply to CommentCouldn't stand Lori's character, but was pretty stunned at the way she went out, and was moved by her goodbye to Carl. Rick's reaction was gut-wrenching, probably the best piece of acting so far on this show.
Micchone still annoys me...she's not only constantly scowling, but she's stupid for not up and leaving and knocking some sense into Andrea, who is still way too naive after wandering around a zombie apocalypse for months. The Governor just comes off as sleazy, don't know if that's how he's written or if the actor was just miscast. I'm not sure why she finds him so charming. Best episode of the season, though.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. It's so nice that they killed off Lori! I never thought they'd do it. There is a zombie god!
November 5, 2012 at 1:37AM ESTElevation Michonne is the Darth Maul of Walking Dead. She looks cool and wields a neat weapon, but her character is completely one dimensional and has been given absolutely nothing to do.
November 5, 2012 at 1:45AM ESTGarySF
November 5, 2012 at 1:36AM EST Reply to CommentWbat's up with that asshole Chris Hardwick spoiling the birth scene during the promo for Talking Dead ("hashtag LoriGivesBirth")? I didn't know she'd pop tonight until that promo. Did that piss off anyone else?
That's not the first time that the Talking Dead has spoiled an upcoming scene...it's happened a few times. I don't know if it's his fault or the fault of the producers. It's annoying...but I don't get too upset about spoilers these days. I think the whole "Don't spoil anything!" philosophy is having a negative impact on the writing of many shows.
November 5, 2012 at 1:39AM ESTElevation Talking Dead and the Kevin Smith comic book show are so stupid. I wish they'd just show more WD replays instead of that garbage.
November 5, 2012 at 1:41AM EST
It bothers me that everything has to be so secretive...even basic story lines. I think it's ok to let your audience know a few tricks and treats. But I do agree with you that Chris Hardwick is kind of a douche.
November 5, 2012 at 1:41AM EST
I refuse to watch that Kevin Smith show. I just won't do it. Does anyone watch that?
November 5, 2012 at 1:42AM ESTDax Hardwick said 'Hashtag Lori's in labor', and the promo appeared after the scene where she went into labor. It did not spoil anything that would be happening later in the episode.
November 5, 2012 at 2:46AM ESTGarySF Whatever the hashtag was, Hardwick said something about Lori giving birth, and labor can take a day or more, she could've been having false contractions, or something else. It was still a spoiler to me, and more than that just shows a real disrespect by AMC toward its viewers.
November 5, 2012 at 7:50AM ESToliver No, I think "Hashtag LoriDiesInTwentyMinutes" would have been AMC showing real disrespect. At least give McDouchie Hardwick some credit for not giving the entire end of the episode away.
November 5, 2012 at 4:55PM ESTJayne Stop multitasking G; she started labor, and at the break Hardwick said omg, #Lorisinlabor. Because she was, you know, - in labor. I like the aftershow. It's a lot of blowing off of steam that you can't blog about because Alan hasn't filed his review yet (no pressure, Alan), and I like having a place to bluster WTF. I started reading the comics after the series started, so I don't have a site map of what's supposed to happen, like others have, so I like to hear other fans spontaneously emoting and speculating. I enjoy Chris Hardwick's fanboy enthusiasm and - new flash - only watch the show hoping for spoilers. Want to dump on someone? What about the producer, who clearly just shows up for adulation (she reminds me of Sally Field dropping in to get recognized at Paramus Mall in 'Soapdish'). Shows up, gets asked questions and acts like Blanche DuBois, coyly simpering, "Why, who knows what that means?". Get off the show. Go find AMC some money to get Frank Darabont back. THAT's what producers do.
November 6, 2012 at 12:24AM ESTGajic
November 5, 2012 at 1:40AM EST Reply to CommentLike a few other commentors I also wonder about how they're treating the black characters. I never read the comic books but it seems odd they would kill T Dog off after the black prisoner (likely) joined their group. Are they scared the viewers can't tell two black guys apart? This show is so flat I don't tihnk some of us can remember character names anyways so I don't see how that was a concern. Itj ust strikes me as odd timing.
It is odd...and judging by how cardboard-like Michonne is so far, I don't think it's a coincidence. It feels bigoted. At the very least, it's poor decision making.
November 5, 2012 at 1:44AM ESTJokin I think it's an issue of handling the personalities of minorities in general. Did you notice they already have a "Glen in Waiting", currently working for the Governor?
November 5, 2012 at 5:30AM ESTGlen was a well-written character when initially introduced in Downtown Atlanta, as was Morgan and even T-Dawg had a pivotal role on the rooftop. They just not-so-curiously correspond to when Darabont was the creative center of the story. Since then, Glen and T-Dawg have been mostly as cardboard as Michonne has been since joining the cast.
I didn't catch the "Glen in Waiting" character. I agree that Glen doesn't really do much, except get laid apparently. At least somebody is! Maggie...nice, farm girl assets.
November 5, 2012 at 1:06PM ESTbbq_hax0r In all fairness I think we're too quick to cry racism or bigotry. T-Dogg was always likely supposed to be a secondary character and unimportant character (like Herschel's other daughter and Carol). Michonne I think they put into the show to rejuvenate a disgruntled fan base before realizing she doesn't fit well into the show and was likely a mistake. Morgan was one of the most important and awesome characters this show has seen and he was black. I can't fault for the writers/execs when a lot of characters struggle with nuance and depth to lazily say its racism.
November 5, 2012 at 2:54PM ESTMC While I think the timing of New T-Dog replacing Actual T-Dog is lame, I can understand why they killed T-Dog, and it has little to do with race. First off, there aren't that many characters left at the prison. They aren't going to kill Rick or likely Carl, they just spent a lot of time and effort keeping Herschel alive, Darryl is the most popular character and Glenn and Maggie have had a lot of development and are also fairly popular. That leaves Carol, T-Dog and Maggie's sister as death fodder. They're not likely to kill more kids (or have yet another storyline centered on that family), so it's down to Carol and T-Dog. They've actually made an effort to develop a character for Carol and had her form relationships with various members of the cast; plus with Lori gone, she's one of the few women left in the cast. So... bye, T-Dog. We hardly knew you, even though you lasted well into the third season. Now, you can argue they never knew how to write for the one Black guy left in the world and they should have spent more time developing his character (because he did seem pretty cool), but I don't think his death was racially motivated.
November 5, 2012 at 3:43PM ESTPrunellaV I miss Morgan and his kid. It seems a shame to never revisit such a compelling and well-acted couple of characters.
November 5, 2012 at 4:56PM ESTFroide PRUNELLAV:
November 5, 2012 at 5:49PM ESTPrunellav: I miss Morgan and his kid. It seems a shame to never revisit such a compelling and well-acted couple of characters.
Never say never.
@BBQ: I would agree that the racism claim would be lazy, if T-Dog was the only reference a person had to claim bigotry on the writers' behalf. But when you Michonne in...and the idea that here is another black person being characterized as "Other" (i.e. her wardrobe and mannerisms suggest she is barbaric, a foreigner, violent, acts on instinct alone, and not too bright)...this then can be seen as a trend. Everything I just used to describe Michonne are stereotypes that have been used to describe black characters for a long time (insert: Tara, True Blood). Rarely do they act like they belong...they always seem "tribal"...often they are a token character (insert: T-Dog)...often they are expendable. The ideological significance of the "Other" in our culture is well-documented, and I believe the writers of this show and less sympathetic toward this understanding than the need to be.
November 5, 2012 at 6:13PM ESTkeith
November 5, 2012 at 1:46AM EST Reply to CommentAs soon as the black guy they locked out came in swinging the axe I shouted "The black guy is going to kill the black guy so he can become the gang's new black guy!" Because I know how these writers think.
what They do Black people about as well as they do it in the comic. Which is extremely poorly.
November 5, 2012 at 2:05AM ESTJoseph Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. Making the existing black man expendable because another one was introduced seems questionable at best - they also had another redneck join the group but I'm guessing Daryl isn't in danger of dying. On the other hand, as has been pointed out repeatedly and often, T-Dawg was a non-character and thus an easy choice to kill off, and I guess I'd rather see him replaced by a black character as opposed to yet another white one.
November 5, 2012 at 11:53AM ESTdezbot First thing that popped into my mind after the prisoner shot Andrew was, "Welcome, T-Dog II!" We just need to get up to "T-Dog III" and it'll be like the Simpsons' cat.
November 5, 2012 at 12:10PM ESTshortstopk Honestly, I think it might have more to do with the actor. I think beyond having little to do, the guy who played T-Dog didn't do much even with the small amount he was given. The black prisoner (forget his name) is already more compelling than T-Dog ever was. And in defense of the show, the father and son from the pilot were written well enough.
November 5, 2012 at 7:31PM ESTwhat
November 5, 2012 at 2:04AM EST Reply to Comment- How did Andrew survive? We heard him screaming and being eaten!
- Why did Lori have to be alive when they cut her open? Isn't that worse for the baby?
- Why didn't they give Lori a rag to bite down on or something? The boiler room door was half-open, with all the screaming and gunshots they should've been overrun with zombies!
keith They should have chopped off her head before getting the baby out. People are applauding the scene but they actually backed off, as usual.
November 5, 2012 at 2:11AM ESTJason "How did Andrew survive? We heard him screaming and being eaten!"
November 5, 2012 at 5:53AM ESTI know nothing about the comics, so don't know if the series is destined to have a happy ending. But if it *is* going to have a happy ending, the possibility that some people are immune would be a plausible beginning of a path to that ending. Some percentage of the population, after all, is immune to lots of diseases.
goofus i would have to watch the scene where andrew gets locked out again but i dont remember him sceaming and getting eaten. all i remember is rick telling andrew to run and that andrew made it through the first wave of zombies. they implied he did not have much of a chance but he had a chance. fortunately they did not leave his survival dangling for 2 seasons like Merle.
November 5, 2012 at 7:41AM ESTFroide "How did Andrew survive? We heard him screaming and being eaten!"
November 5, 2012 at 7:52AM ESTWe heard Andrew screaming and ASSUMED he was being eaten. But he doesn't look chewed up to me.
As someone pointed out earlier, the prison yard wasn't as secure as we'd assumed, and Andrew clearly found a way to get the heck out of Dodge.
Jason raises a good point: Andrew may be one of the lucky few who is immune. If so, he mayhave been bitten or scratched, but that didn't kill or change him. Interesting!
Rob Zombie Yeah, you hear Andrew screaming off screen when Rick locks him outside but in the overhead shot you can see that he has an escape route back into the prison if he can get past the dozen or so walkers coming at him. The screaming though definitely implied he died. Cheap move by the writers.
November 5, 2012 at 11:21PM EST- 1
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