Cannes Film Festival 2013

Review: 'Breaking Bad' - 'Dead Freight': The train job

Jesse masterminds a plan to steal more chemicals in a beautiful hour

<p>Jesse (Aaron Paul) has a plan on "Breaking Bad."</p>

Jesse (Aaron Paul) has a plan on "Breaking Bad."

Credit: AMC

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A review of tonight's "Breaking Bad" coming up just as soon as my niece's first words are "ASAC"...

"The point is, no one, other than us, can ever know that this robbery went down. Nobody. Got it?" -Jesse
"Yeah, absolutely." -Todd
"Are you sure?" -Walt
"Yes, sir." -Todd


Over the years, I have steadfastly insisted that anyone watching "Friday Night Lights" for the first time is better off suffering through the show's giant misfire of a second season than skipping it, not only because of a handful of strong individual moments, but because if they don't watch it, then they don't get to make jokes about Landry Clarke killing people. And one of the unexpected joys of my TV fan life of the last five years has been telling many, many, many jokes about Landry as a serial killer, Landry on a 12-state murder spree, Jesse Plemons killing someone no matter what new role he's been signed to play.

After the final scene of "Dead Freight," I think I have to retire that joke.

It's not just that for once, Plemons plays another character who actually does kill someone. It's who he kills, and the circumstance under which he does it. It's all fun and games when Lance is running around the country killing rapists, aliens, plumbing contractors, etc., and quite another when he's gunning down some kid on a dirtbike who had the terrible fortune to be looking for spiders to add to his collection in the absolute wrong place and time.

That's not funny. That's as tragic and horrifying as the "Breaking Bad" creative team intended.

Similarly, Todd's act at the end completely changes everything we think about "Dead Freight," which to that point is practically a "Breaking Bad" romp. Though there's some tension early on as the guys debate what to do with/to Lydia, and the usual frostiness between Walt and Skyler, the overwhelming emotion I felt throughout this one was giddiness.

Even more than the season premiere, this was a good old-fashioned caper story — a train robbery, for goodness' sake, on a show that's always had some Western roots — and in my running diary of the episode, I kept noting that longtime "Breaking Bad" writer George Mastras must have felt like a kid in a candy store (or a train store) when he got this as his first directing assignment ever. Once again, Walt and Jesse (and now Mike) are faced with an impossible problem — at least an impossible one if they wanted to avoid killing the two engineers — and once again, they figure out a way to solve it through brainpower. Cue gorgeous, Western-tinged cinematography (including Walt in his Heisenberg hat looking every bit the cowboy villain as he stands on the train tracks). Cue fun set-up montages. Cue tense but not dread-filled heist sequence, including the return of Bill Burr as Saul's occasional errand boy Kuby. Cue Jesse, Walt and Todd gleefully celebrating, with Jesse only seconds away from letting off another "YEAH, SCIENCE!"

Cue Todd putting a bullet into a kid.

No, that's not fun at all. And at this late stage of the series, that's the point.

For a series with a reasonably high body count, "Breaking Bad" has always treated murder very seriously. Walt and Jesse tried for a very long time to avoid killing anyone who wasn't a direct threat to them like Tuco; look at the hoops they jumped through in "Better Call Saul" just to keep from murdering Badger, when that's the obvious play for any traditional drug crew. They've tried to rationalize their work, to separate themselves from the end user of their product (and when Jesse couldn't, in an episode like "Peekaboo," he at least made himself feel better by knowing the cops and social services are about to take the kid out of that environment). They make drugs, but they do not kill people, and when people have died — even if they were in some way tied to the drug game like Combo, Andrea's little brother Tomas, Gale or even Jane — it hasn't been quickly forgotten, but has given Walt pause, and emotionally devastated Jesse. But even those deaths could eventually be moved beyond. Combo was a drug dealer, as was Tomas (and Tomas killed Combo, to boot). Jane was a junkie. Gale cooked meth. They knew on some level what they were getting into.

Spider boy? Spider boy was just a little kid with horrible luck, and he's dead, in part because Walt and Jesse made it abundantly clear to Todd that there could be no witnesses to this particular crime.

Walt and Jesse can act like they're some morally-superior class of criminal, but crime is crime. When you tell a professional thief like Todd, who's made it clear he's trying to impress you, that no one can know about this robbery, what do you expect to happen if a kid on a dirtbike tools up?

I don't know that this murder affects the current Walt/Jesse/Mike business model. As Walt said last week — before he knew how ironic those words would sound — "Nothing stops this train. Nothing." But every now and then, Walt and Jesse have to have their illusions about their chosen profession shattered, and though the kid is someone they don't know (and whom we only met briefly in what seemed at the time like a very odd pre-credits sequence), he's still a kid. You don't shrug that off lightly. You may go right back to cooking meth and divvying up the cash, but you don't get to pretend you're anything other than what you are.

We've been looking at the back of Walt's head a lot this season, which on the one hand is a trademark of that other AMC show that wins a lot of Emmys, but which also is often used to introduce a major villain (Blofeld, Marcellus Wallace).

We may like Walt and Jesse to varying degrees because the actors and writers have done such a good job of making us understand them. And we may have gotten many thrills out of the many ways they've cheated death, defied the odds, and/or pulled off some incredible scheme. But we can't pretend they're something other than what they are. I'm reminded of the following exchange that Jesse and Walt had in the season 3 premiere:

"You either run from things, or you face them, Mr. White."
"And what exactly does that mean?"
"I learned it in rehab. It's all about accepting who you really are. I accept who I am."
"And who are you?"
"I'm the bad guy."

Great, great episode. So much fun, and then such a devastating but not unfair gut punch at the end.

Some other thoughts:

* I mentioned it briefly earlier, but this is one of the prettiest episodes the show has ever done, up there with the likes of "4 Days Out." I'm tempted to watch it again with the sound off just so I can admire the train sequence some more.

* Though the hour is largely focused on the heist, we still get to see plenty of fallout from last week's birthday fight between Skyler and Walt. Walter Jr. is confused and angry to be shut out of his own home, Marie and Hank aren't sure what to do (but are enjoying having Holly around), and Skyler actually manages to get through to Walt for once by forcing him to realize that his career really does place the kids in danger. For the most part this season, Walt's megalomania has blinded him to any potential blowback from his actions, so good on Skyler for piercing through his defenses and getting to think of himself as something other than the omnipotent Heisenberg.

* It's also interesting to contrast the completely honest Walt/Skyler scene with Walt's earlier visit to Hank's office, where his tears and vulnerability are largely calculated to give Walt a few minutes alone with the computer, but where there's just enough truth there to make the lie convincing. Walt isn't pleased that his wife no longer loves him and has sent his kids away, but he's never going to show Hank how he really feels about that. Some of Cranston's best moments throughout the series involve Walt augmenting some elaborate lie with a splash of emotional truth.

* It took several episodes, but Lydia finally adds some value to the team by assisting with the train heist. She's still a jittery mess, but who wouldn't be if Mike was constantly threatening to shoot them in the head? I also laughed very hard at Lydia's hiss of "asshole" when they discovered that it was the DEA, and not her, who put the GPS tracker on the barrel(s). Also, Lydia's demand that Walt swear on the lives of his children suggests she watches too much "Survivor."

* Back to Walter Jr., how long has it been since anyone last called him Flynn? I like the idea that Marie and Skyler revert to that nickname when he's mad at his father — and it should be noted that Walt still insists on referring to his son as Junior.

* We get our second Pacino movie reference of the season, as Hank tries to get Flynn to watch "Heat" with him. It's very easy to imagine Mike as the DeNiro character from that movie, who's too smart and experienced to work with the likes of Walt and Jesse, but can't help himself and is doomed as a result.

What did everybody else think?

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

Alan-sepinwall-sm
Alan Sepinwall
Sr. Editor, What's Alan Watching
Alan Sepinwall has been reviewing television since the mid-'90s, first for Tony Soprano's hometown paper, The Star-Ledger, and now for HitFix. His new book, "The Revolution Was Televised," about the last 15 years of TV drama, is for sale at Amazon. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 661 Comments
  • Default-avatar

    Mark

    Landry always ends up killing someone, I guess.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:03PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Lazy Iggy Landry, no!

      Gilligan must know what he is doing to us!

      August 12, 2012 at 11:05PM EST
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      Cornelius Did you even read the review before commenting, or you just had to be first?

      Mr. Sepinwall discusses your joke at length in the first paragraph, "Mark"!

      August 12, 2012 at 11:09PM EST
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      BrettPoker I'm still laughing at Todd/Landry waving to him first before shooting him.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:06AM EST
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      adamjmil If Jesse Plemons wasn't typecast before, he sure is now.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:34AM EST
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      Lazy Iggy Right when I saw the kid, I made a joke, Landry is going to kill him. When he reached behind him, I really thought it was going to be a jar, pretend he was looking for spiders, and give it to the kid...I really did, but bang! and my mouth dropped. I feel so bad, I made so many jokes...never thought it would happen let alone be so cold-blooded.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:18AM EST
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      Sully I don't think you need to retire your joke. Its dark but its still just a tv show. No kids really died

      August 13, 2012 at 6:00AM EST
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      From Dirt Bike to Dirt Nap Thank you, Sully.

      People joke all the time about TV and movie characters being serial killers, rapists and child molesters. Hell, people have no problem joking about REAL serial killers, rapists and child molesters. These are horrible realities that we sometimes address with black humor. Why is it alright to joke about the deaths of innocent adults, but not children? Why joke at all about cooking meth? Maybe we should constantly dwell on all of the fictional innocent lives being destroyed by Walt's business?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:35AM EST
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      lmay It has been a really tiresome joke for a long time.

      August 15, 2012 at 1:17PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      reb Never stops being a hilarious reference, even after a turgid, multi-paragraph preamble that's all about "Landry" and a lame semi-apology. Wouldn't want to lose the spice-of-the-moment gig as "TV blogger" by people proclaiming to be "offended" by not being sufficiently earnest about a kid getting shot.

      August 16, 2012 at 11:12AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      reb Never stops being a hilarious reference, even after a turgid, multi-paragraph preamble that's all about "Landry" and a lame semi-apology. Wouldn't want to lose the spice-of-the-moment gig as "TV blogger" by people proclaiming to be "offended" by not being sufficiently earnest about a kid getting shot.

      August 16, 2012 at 11:12AM EST
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    KDizzle53

    LANDRY KILLS AGAIN! RAPISTS AND CHILDREN BEWARE!!!!!

    August 12, 2012 at 11:04PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Chewie-baseball-card_talkback_profile

      Bgklein I think you may have un-retired it successfully there

      August 12, 2012 at 11:12PM EST
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      adamjmil You mean Lance, right?

      August 13, 2012 at 12:34AM EST
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      Slam Seeing Landry makes me miss Tyra

      August 13, 2012 at 6:43PM EST
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    Tank

    Such an amazing, exciting episode... and then Landry sobers us up.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:05PM EST Reply to Comment
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    dannyf

    Loved this episode, but the cold open stood out as such a "WTF?" thing for me that I knew it couldn't be entirely disconnected from the episode, and it stuck with me. As soon as they started saying and repeating "no witnesses, no witnesses," I figured out exactly what was going to happen, which ruined some of the gut-punch ending for me. Although it was still suspenseful waiting to see how/when it would happen, exactly.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:07PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Bill Yeah, I expected the kid to end up as a witness, but I also expected a more measured response from team Heisenberg, so the gut punch definitely landed for me.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST
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      Bradley I got so wrapped up in the excitement of the episode, I completely forgot about that kid, until we got the camera angle from where no one had been. That was insanely great TV.
      I would have liked to have been in the production meeting when the writers told the producers, hey, we're going to need a train.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:22PM EST
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      velocityknown I also predicted the kid would find them, but wasn't anticipating that action on Todd's part. Definitely a surprise.

      Also, I just rewatched that scene and noticed something. In contrast to Jesse, Walt makes no motion or even reaction to Todd pulling out the gun. He flinches when Todd fires (as most people would to a gunshot), but I'm forced to wonder if Walt even sees Todd's actions as a bad thing. They seemed to make a point of not cutting back to him like they did to Jesse.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:36PM EST
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      LJ I am so glad I missed the cold open :) Shocking, really.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:56PM EST
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      Ryan You could hear a train in the background of the cold open..

      August 13, 2012 at 12:10AM EST
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      svetlana When the episode started I was sure that the kid was going to find the gun Jesse shot tuco with that he and Walt buried in the desert. This was an amazing episode..there goes my theory that landry is an undercover cop!

      August 13, 2012 at 1:52AM EST
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      Harry the Hat Absolutely brilliant use of the pre-credit sequence. Showing us the kid during a private little moment, having him struggle to put on his helmet, etc. set us up perfectly. The end would have been horrific enough if we had only seen him then, but, man was that brutal.

      Also, it ties back in with Lydia asking Walt about his kids, and Mike's love for his granddaughter. I'm curious to see how Mike reacts to this. Look, in their world killing him was the only option, but I doubt Mike will look at this so coldly. My guess is that we're about to see some division between Mike/Jesse vs. Walt/Landry.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:32AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza I was expecting the kid to find Lydia, buried up to her neck in the sand. Or a stash of stuff Mike used to bury/dig up with Jesse.

      Once they get out in the same terrain, I knew he was going to find something. Just a question of what. Well, it's a classic storytelling dilemma. If you show the kid, the audience knows something is coming. Don't show him, and they rip you (rightly) for this unbelievable deus ex machina of having the kid show up at the wrong moment.

      It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Obviously the kid has to die (cue Mike's 'only two kinds of jobs" line). Apparently Todd is the only one with the sense to either bring a gun or use it ASAP, before the witness gets away.

      You'd figure Mike (after he finishes responding emotionally) will realize that immediately. Certainly Walt will grasp it. Jesse probably will understand, but he's still going to be sick about it. They can get a pretty good episode out of that next week.

      The only thing I'll say-- and I'm not going to go on at length-- but this was episode five of eight. Because of the arbitrary decision they made to end the series after a certain number of episodes, they're painting themselves into a tighter and tighter hole.

      This was a super episode, and I'm glad to have it. But from a plot standpoint, it did only three things to advance it: putting another guy in the gang, leaving Lydia alive and angry/scared and planting the wiretaps (with Walt's fingerprints on them).

      Just using three-act dramatic structure (seasons 1-2 as Act I, Seasons 3-4 as Act II), I think there were at least 26 hours of story left.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:41AM EST
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      Celso Walt essentially told us a child would get hurt earlier in the episode when he told Skyler that 'our children will not get hurt' and then reiterates it and emphasizes 'our children'. I didn't catch on until the end, but certainly we were told.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:26AM EST
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      jack_is_laughing "Because of the arbitrary decision they made to end the series after a certain number of episodes, they're painting themselves into a tighter and tighter hole."

      Your concern seems to ignore the fact that all TV series' season's lengths are pre-ordained before a single page is written. It's budgeting and scheduling. Saying they're writing themselves into a corner when this season has 16 episodes and most have no more than 13 doesn't even make sense.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:33AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza And you seem to ignore the fact that all TV shows can continue for an infinite number of seasons, assuming the creator and stars want to keep going, and the network is willing to pay for the episodes.

      BREAKING BAD wasn't required to end the show in the fifth season-- it's an arbitrary decision they made, based on how much story they thought was left. At the rate they're going, they seem to have guessed badly wrong.

      In fact, they aren't even running for five seasons of 13 episodes. The first season ended after seven, thanks to the writer's strike.

      Also, you do know that many shows make 20+ episodes per season, don't you? You're familiar with something called "the networks"?

      August 13, 2012 at 11:51AM EST
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      jack_is_laughing Geez Dwayne, calm down. I'm well aware of the network's and their bloated, over-long seasons. No reasonable critic I know is saying the network system works well, nor are any of the Emmy-nominated or critically-acclaimed series made to their standards these day. I have faith that Gilligan and company know what they're doing.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:59AM EST
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      rerun Yeah Dwayne, not sure what your point is. Network TV isn't showing ANYTHING like BB. They are wrapping up. The Wire lasted 5 seasons, it only makes sense that Bad lasts 5 seasons.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:19PM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza My point was made at length and discussed by quite a lot of people in the recap for last week, which is why I'm not going to rehash it.

      Given the number of threads, the show hasn't left itself enough air time time to tell the story-- not at the pace BREAKING BAD likes to move.

      If you can't understand that, wait 11 more episodes. You'll see.

      By the way, saying "This show ran for X episodes so nothing else should run longer" is inane. Especially since HBO canceled THE WIRE for low ratings.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:02PM EST
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      jack_is_laughing Thanks Dwayne, I'm sure that being a showrunner of some repute and experience, you know what you're talking about. When these eleven episodes end and we're all disappointed, I will be sure to remember that you called it here first.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:33PM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza Jack, in your first two comments, you either didn't understand what I was saying or you chose not to. Now that I've made my point clear, you've decided to take offense.

      If I'm mistaken about how the show plays out, I'll cheerfully admit I was wrong. I'd like things to go well; it would prevent a repeat of the debacle that occurred on LOST.

      While we're waiting, you might want to bone up on Alan's commenting policy.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:02PM EST
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      xactomundo Jesus, Dwayne, take your meds. Not everyone has to agree with you. Vince Gilligan has stated that he didn't want to drag out the story. He knows exactly how it was going to end when he started the series. I would prefer no "filler" episodes in the last season.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:36PM EST
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      jack_is_laughing Dwayne, you're the one calling people's comments "inane." At best, you're the pot calling other kettles black.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:47PM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall Dwayne, calm down. Now. Keep up that tone and your comments start getting deleted. TALK ABOUT THE SHOW, NOT EACH OTHER.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:13PM EST
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      Michelle T I had scene a headline on anther site about the "game changing" episode of Breaking Bad. So I was sure Jesse was gonna get smushed by that train when it started up again. So tense for me!

      And then a relief when it didn't happen, and BANG! That ending. Wow. An emotional rollercoaster for sure.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:19PM EST
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      Slam Call me a cynical bastard, but while I was sad for the kid, I certainly wasnt shocked. He had to be taken out, and Landry did it as humanely as possible

      August 13, 2012 at 6:49PM EST
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      Nat King Kong Having the kid show up with no prior warning would not have been deus ex machina. Deus ex machina involves some inexplicable and contrived intervention of an object/person/event/etc. to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem. The kid isn't solving anyone's problem here.

      August 14, 2012 at 6:26PM EST
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      Ricky @svetlana He could just be a really....really dedicated undercover cop!

      August 15, 2012 at 6:21AM EST
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    Alex T.

    Among the greatest episodes ever and what an ending! My mouth wouldn't close

    August 12, 2012 at 11:07PM EST Reply to Comment
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    gnarkillah

    This season is moving way too fast.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:09PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Ed It has to; there's only three episodes left before it goes off the air for a year!

      August 13, 2012 at 3:53AM EST
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    dadandburied

    They're gonna get rid of the body, right?

    Expertly paced episode. The end of the train heist was incredibly tense, followed by giddy relief, ultimately upended by that tremendous gut punch.

    The last two episodes are as good as the show's ever been.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:10PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Peter They don't need the water tank anymore....

      August 12, 2012 at 11:53PM EST
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      boris the spider I think they might have more than one body to get rid of... especially if Jesse is carrying heat.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:57AM EST
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      Steve I just skimmed through 4 pages of comments and didn't see this addressed, so here goes...

      The whole time I was getting ready for work this morning, I was thinking about the best way to dispose of the body and/or bike (Ah, the life of a Breaking Bad fan...), and there are really no easy answers.

      Anyway, without going through all the various options and permutations, the most important point that occurred to me is that they actually NEED the body to be easily found. Because any sort of search for the kid would surely result in the methylamine tank being found. So what do they do?

      August 13, 2012 at 1:01PM EST
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      Peter That's a good point, Steve. Okay, this gets grim -- you also need to lose the head and helmet (I *think* he was hit in the head). A train could do that. Kid plays on the tracks, train decapitates him, animals handle the rest. They'd want to move him further away, though. It'd be too suspicious when people hear about the truck on the track in the same place.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:36PM EST
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      Steve Yes, that's very grim...Wait, did I say "grim"? Because I meant to say BRILLIANT!

      August 13, 2012 at 1:40PM EST
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      Mark in Omaha Instead of shooting him, should have walked up to him all friendly like, then broke his neck. Toss the kid and his bike down a ravine and it looks like an accident. I know that's still cold blooded but less messy than shooting him. Did they really need to kill him? What exactly did he see? If Walt hadn't been so greedy, they would have had everything all unhooked and covered up sooner. I assume they were going to yank the two tanks and not leave them there.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:46PM EST
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      Slam Evem more grim: If the kid shows signs that he was sexually assaulted, that gets rid of the chemical heist angle. Horrible to think that, I know ...

      August 13, 2012 at 6:53PM EST
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      GarySF Mark in Omaha, Walt wasn't necessarily being greedy. The methalyne had been drained into the tank, and they needed to pump in the required amount of water to ensure the weight remained the same. Otherwise, the transportation company would know something was wrong sooner rather than later. Yeah, he could've chosen to take less than a thousand gallons, but that was the plan, and by the end of the heist his options were limited.

      August 13, 2012 at 10:52PM EST
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      The Dirt Bike Kid Holy Sh*t...this has to be the most disturbing conversation I've ever read. I mean, yeah, the episode raised these issues and it's - er - interesting to talk about the consequences, but...wow.

      I love this show and its realism, but I really hope the next episode doesn't involve discussions about decapitating and molesting a dead child.

      August 14, 2012 at 12:41AM EST
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      Peter For the record, I didn't bring up that latter part, and I'm glad it didn't occur to me.

      It's a grisly thought exercise, but I imagine the writers had to have contemplated these things. Someone has to invent the horrible things these characters do.

      August 14, 2012 at 9:58AM EST
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      Mahmoud Fayed Don't judge us, The Dirt Bike Kid, DON'T JUDGE US! We're all well-adjusted human beans.

      August 14, 2012 at 10:06AM EST
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      Slam It's not called "Breaking Good". I'm just sayin'

      August 14, 2012 at 10:30AM EST
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      Wasabi Wouldn't it be easier to just dig a hole in the desert? If they are in a communication deadzone, it probably means its remote, and no one would know exactly where the kid was.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:49PM EST
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      Peter Sure it would be easier. It's also riskier. As soon as the parents miss the kid, within hours I would assume, there's going to be a search party throughout the desert (kid can't be TOO far from home on that bike). And that will continue until he's found. This will make it difficult to get to the tanks. And as the search expands, the police will surely ask any engineers who passed through the area if they saw anything. Now the truck gets investigated.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:01PM EST
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      Steve Just saw the shooting again thanks to the Curb-ified "alternate ending" and it looks like he was shot in the shoulder/chest rather than the head.

      August 16, 2012 at 8:23PM EST
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      Peter Yeah, when I watched again, it looks like there's a whole in his back.

      August 17, 2012 at 9:20AM EST
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    TR

    Wow. Just wow.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:10PM EST Reply to Comment
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    BrettPoker

    I'm loving Jesse having all of these Dr. House-like epiphanies while Mike and Walt argue.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:10PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Bob Excellent comparison. I've been enjoying Jesse's intelligence as well.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:52AM EST
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      svetlana I agree! I have a feeling Jesse is going to die before these 8 episodes are over so they are trying to show what an important part if the team he is. I read an interview with Aaron Paul where he talks about how hard it was shooting the final episode and how he'll miss everyone etc. I can't see him making those comments if he was coming back to shoot the second half of the season. I hope I'm wrong because I love Jesse and want him to be the last man standing.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:19AM EST
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      Joseph I can't imagine a scenario where Jesse is not around for the final 8 episodes. I think they are showing how he is arguably more capable of running the show than Mr White/Heisenberg is, and he will eventually be viewed by Walter as a legitimate threat, setting up an epic battle for control between Jesse and Walter during the final 8 episodes.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:32AM EST
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      Jess I think Jesse will die but not until the last few episodes next year. When I watched the episode tonight I saw the train go over Jesse and thought that Walt had just kept going with the methlamine and then it was too late for Jesse to get out as the train ran over him. I was relived to see he survived! That scene with the red bag being the only thing in sight at the end of Hazard Pay makes me think Jesse is in danger.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:37PM EST
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      Controller This ain't the same Jesse we met in season one. He's getting smart and he's the one "handling' Mike. I think Walt needed the machine gun in the first episode because Jesse has taken over and they've gone to war. He's the new Scarface, not Walt.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:59PM EST
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    TR

    Wow. Just, wow.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:10PM EST Reply to Comment
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    jennyh

    Amazing episode -- I thought I was going to die from the tension in the heist scene.

    Good call in retiring the joke, Alan. Now Plemons' two highest profile roles involve murder, and though only one murder fit with the world of the show and the character, this plot event is just to brutal and bleak for joke fodder. Which is why this is one of the greatest series of all time, of course.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:11PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Modok

    Wow...

    I think we all had the same thought: this was one of the more wacky, fun episodes, the kind in which everything goes right for Team Walt. After the stress of last week's marital fighting, we get a lighter episode in which a train heist goes according to plan and no one gets hurt.

    Then bang. Man, talk about a gun-punch of a final scene. I'm assuming this will lead to much internal conflict among the group as to what kind of criminal enterprise they're going to be. Perhaps Walt can shrug off the kid's death, but this may be what splinters Jesse away for good.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:12PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Dezbot It'll definitely reinforce Jesse's decision to stay away from Andrea & Brock. Damn, that was devastating.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:45AM EST
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    Fuzzy Dunlop

    I almost wish they had not done the pre-credits scene. I'm on the fence. I mean, it was brilliant to have the train horn in the distance right at the end, but then as soon as the train job became apparent, you knew the kid would show up. I guess it added to the tension of these scene, wondering when the engineers or the kid would see what was going on. Okay fine, it was genius. I just hated knowing that the kid would likely buy it just for hunting spiders.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:12PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jane I must have ADD because I completely forgot about the kid until he showed up at the end. However, I did jokingly tell my husband the kid was going to get shot during that opening scene in the desert.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:36PM EST
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      jam Good point, although I think the opening was necessary in some ways to demonstrate the full tragic nature by showing him as a happy, normal boy rather than a prop that just shows up. Yes, a moral low-point for the characters either way but far more hard for the audience to take, which is the point.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:49PM EST
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      unclevanya I FORGOT ABOUT SPIDER BOY, I really thought he was a little kid that was in one of Uncle Tio's picture in his room. It was commented the cousins had more cousins. So I thought, here we go again.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:27AM EST
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      Arachnophobe I also got so caught up in the heist I'd forgotten. I do have ADD (then again I'm terrified of spiders, so maybe my brain was blocking that memory some) and didn't pay any attention to the background or train noises, too focused on the spider in the jar. Also figured it wasn't going to tie in during the same episode, but that there'd be a reveal somewhere down the line in a future episode. Even if I had noticed, I did NOT see that coming. My mouth was literally hanging open too, like well into the commercial break before the previews for next week. I really can't see them letting Todd live after that (of course, Walt and Jesse and Mike will have varying reasons for wanting Todd dead). Liked the shot at the end with the spider (yeek) still trying to find a way out of the jar. oh MAN there's a shit-storm coming! And only three episodes left...

      August 13, 2012 at 1:09AM EST
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      Ireneinidaho The spider trying to find its way out of the jar....much like Skyler trying to find a way out, at least for her kids. She already admitted she's Walt's "hostage," no way out of the jar for her. And I wonder if Jesse is going to want out of Walt's jar now also.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:35AM EST
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      me Did anyone else feel for the spider, who was plucked out of its normal life and put in a jar that didn't even have air holes?

      August 13, 2012 at 2:52AM EST
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      Lazy Iggy The boy's appreciation of the spider reminded me of Jesse, especially back in the earlier seasons before they expanded. I remember him waiting for Skinny Pete and picking up a beetle? with such fascination and appreciation, and tenderly putting it back down, only for Skinny Pete to come along and stomp on it....I don't know...I have a bad feeling about Jesse's fate.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:01AM EST
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      Huell Goodman ME, the jar did have air holes.

      I totally agree that briefly getting to know the kid in the opening was a plus and, like others, once we got into the action I had largely forgotten about him.

      On any other show it may have been predictable, but Breaking Bad has confounded my expectations so many times that I think I now just give up trying to predict and just enjoy the show.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:44AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza It's a dilemma for which there is no good solution. You show the kid, the audience knows something bad will happen.

      But think about you'd respond if the kid shows up in this deserted, no cell or surveillance, God-forsaken, wilderness.

      Having the Good Samiritan show up was OK-- it was a device to put pressure on Walt, Jesse and Todd, and they succeeded anyway.

      The rule they teach you in college is that it's never OK to have a sudden and totally random event decide the fate of your characters. The audience has to be prepared, at least on some level.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:50AM EST
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      randi I totally forgot about the kid as well, and part of the genius of this show is how that kid could be a metaphor for Walt's kids, whom he thinks will not be in danger, just like spider boy out for a ride. And the spider, well picking up that spider put the kid in the spider (Walt's) web, Walt is like a spider, drawing all these people into his web (Jesse, Mike, Fring, Lydia, and so many more...) and we see the result of what happens, or will happen, to all of them

      August 13, 2012 at 1:51PM EST
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      Liz L. I watched the show in two parts because of time constraints, so I had TOTALLY forgotten the kid by the end of the heist and was just doing a "YA, SCIENCE" cheer when they panned to him. Devastating. And so BB.

      August 14, 2012 at 10:10AM EST
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    Steve

    Amazing episode.

    I'm sure it's just another coincidence, but after the Scarface/Mob Week thing from a few weeks ago, I really got a laugh out of having a train-related episode on the night of the Hell on Wheels premiere.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:13PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Harry the Hat I'm surprised AMC didn't have them do a rewrite:

      Skylar: "Burying bodies?"
      Walt: "Actually, Skylar, robbing a train. That's right Skylar, a train. Not only is your husband The Danger, he's also HELL ON WHEELS!"

      *Walt Jr. barges in*

      Walt: "Junior? What are you doing home?"

      Junior: "Dad, Uncle Hank has Dish Network, so I have to come home to watch the season premiere of AMC's hit western drama, Hell on Wheels."

      August 13, 2012 at 4:58AM EST
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      Ferrell Frank Maybe in series finale Walt and Jesse will get that train up to 88 mph and season 4 of Hell on Wheels will feature Heisenberg facing off against The Swede.

      Just imagine: a steady flow of Blue Meth and Mike as a slave driver? They'll lay tracks to the Pacific in about 2 weeks.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:13AM EST
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      ireneinidaho Thanks, Harry, for the best laugh of my morning!

      August 13, 2012 at 12:28PM EST
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      Slam You cannot stop The Swede, you can only hope to contain him

      August 14, 2012 at 10:44AM EST
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    Tank

    If Mike were true to his character, the plan would have been to simply whack the two guys on the train. What's two more bodies added to his prolific total? But we wouldn't have had that fun thrill ride.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:13PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Joe He isn't too keen on killing innocents as he made clear in the episode and hasn't yet killed one during the show.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:16PM EST
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      SaveFarris If he whacks the train guys, then 8 gazillion agencies are going to investigate. They made it abundantly clear that the success of this heist was entirely dependent on noone realizing anything was wrong until days/weeks/months later.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:22PM EST
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      Tank I'm not sure what could have been more abundantly clear than Mike saying "We've got to off the crew" at the 26:00 mark.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:39PM EST
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      reckoner That was before Jesse came up with his brilliant plan.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:41PM EST
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      Tank I was simply refuting the two prior posts. He seemed awfully "keen on killing innocents" before Jesse put his thinking cap on.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:44PM EST
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      jam Wasn't Mike's point that to be successful you'd have to kill the crew, but he still didn't really want to go down this road?

      August 12, 2012 at 11:51PM EST
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      Tank Perhaps so, JAM, but it also signaled a willingness on Mike's part to go down that road. Omar only takes down those "in the game." Mike has no such code.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:59PM EST
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      Tank BTW, his next lines in that scene: "Even if we wear a mask, we're leaving two witnesses behind. Bottom line; I have done this long enough to know that there are two kinds of heists: those where the guys get away with it, and those that leave witnesses."

      Is that the statement of a man who has never killed innocents?

      August 13, 2012 at 12:07AM EST
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      Steve Kanso Your view of Mike is wrong. He definitely has a code. He is extremely loyal. He steadfastly refused to kill any of the people being investigated after Gus' death because they were "his guys." He has gone out of his way to pay them, in jail, because they are "his guys."

      He has never, ever been shown to kill a person who was not already involved in crime. Every person he has killed is somebody who knew that their line of work might one day get them killed.

      He is shown to be in this line of basically only to ensure that his grand daughter gets enough money to have a good life and good opportunities.

      His famous "half measure" story is about him almost killing a man because he beat his wife.

      The season 5 premiere shows Mike feeding chickens and playfully talking to them.

      He is indeed a killer, and an efficient one, but he is not a murderer of innocents and has never been implied be one. He certainly does operate within a code. Walter White at this point is the only one in this trio who is operating without code.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:10AM EST
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      Tank Bottom line, Steve. Do you take issue with my contention that he absolutely would have killed the two guys on the train if they had no other option?

      August 13, 2012 at 12:12AM EST
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      Miles He wasn't advocating killing them, he was pointing out what would have to happen for success. Then he went straight to saying they need to cook with the pseudo instead of methylamine. At no point has Mike killed an innocent person, or indicated he'd be willing to. He won't even kill the guys that work for him, he'd rather jump through hoops to pay them.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:18AM EST
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      KobraCola I think his point was that IF they wanted to pull off the heist in the proposed manner than Mike felt it was necessary to kill the 2 men on board. It was implied that Mike didn't want to do the heist and he opposed to it, at least partially, because it would involve killing those 2 guys. Hence why he suggested the other way of making meth before Jesse came up with his non-killing-the-guys plan. So Joe and Savefarris definitely had a point.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:45AM EST
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      me Mike did kill two of his own men who posed a danger--the Asian guy and the blond guy. I forget why--I think the blond guy was going to be a rat but I forget why the other guy, who seemed loyal. Mike didn't enjoy killing them, but he did it for the Gipper.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:38AM EST
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      Sean Conroy Hm. I think Mike didn't kill the Asian guy. The blond guy did. Blond guy had made Asian guy draw Mike in. And Mike killed the blond guy so the blond guy wouldn't kill him. Right?

      He says they will have to off the train crew in the context of "We should not commit this crime. It will end badly for us. We are not doing it." Not in the context of "I guess we'll just kill these guys."

      Also... Landry!

      August 13, 2012 at 5:05AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza I take issue with the contention, because it's set up with a false construction. MIKE DOESN"T WANT TO HIT THE TRAIN.

      This isn't something where we need to argue-- one of us just needs to watch the episode again.

      At the start of the scene, Mike says the only good option is to go back to buying cold medicine and tweaking it (as Walt and Jesse began doing).

      Walt says that's isn't happening and they get into a go-around. Mike points out that they're no way to hold the train up without killing people-- and if they do that, they're not going to be able to get away from the authorities.

      Then Jesse gets his brilliant idea, they go out to investigate the site and Mike (off-camera, presumably) decides it is workable.

      As many imprisoned mafiosos have told the feds, killing people is bad because you have to hide the body, people look for it and it creates hard feelings. You do it if there is no other way, but you explore every possible way to avoid it because the exposure to risk is so high.

      That's usually why the bosses are the bosses. It isn't because they're more vicious-- it's because they're clever enough to do it only when necessary.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:04AM EST
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      Peter If Mike were as unhesitatingly ruthless as you claim, he would not have talked Lydia out of taking out Gus' network. It would be far easier for him to take them out and not have to worry about paying them. He emphasized to Lydia how ridiculous it is to kill people when there are other options.

      "Is that the statement of a man who has never killed innocents?"

      It only indicates that he knows how heists go down. He'd have seen it as a cop as well. It doesn't mean he has directly participated in heists gone bad.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:20AM EST
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      Peter Also, Mike did not kill Chau. The other guy did. Mike killed the other guy because he had just lured Mike into a trap to kill him. Mike had very good reasons for doing that.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:22AM EST
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      Tank "If Mike were as unhesitatingly ruthless as you claim..."


      Weird. I don't recall typing anything of the sort.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:13PM EST
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      Peter "If Mike were true to his character, the plan would have been to simply whack the two guys on the train."

      I read that as saying it's in his character to kill people rather than not kill people. That's unhesitatingly ruthless in my book.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:27PM EST
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      Col Bat Guano Mike only objected to killing the crew because it meant the heist wouldn't succeed. If taking them out would have guaranteed they would have gotten away with it, Mike would have done it.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:13AM EST
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      Peter If things went wrong, I think he would have done it. I'm not convinced he would have signed up if it was part of the plan from the start.

      Here's a thought: what would he have done if Lydia's girl had turned the corner in the house and seen him? I don't think I know.

      August 14, 2012 at 10:01AM EST
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      Eric I agree with those thinking that Mike's gambit was to use those two deaths as a way to talk Walt out of the heist. He didn't want to kill two innocent people and argued for a pseudo cook instead. However, once he was on board with it, I do believe Mike *would have* killed those two if they witnessed the crime. He would do what was necessary under the circumstances - he just wanted to avoid those circumstances.

      August 15, 2012 at 10:04AM EST
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      NolaCherie Miles and Dwayne are right; Mike didn't want to do the train heist. He said they should do a pseudo cook instead, because if they did the train heist, innocent people would have to be killed.
      And @ME, Sean and Peter are right, Mike didn't kill Chau ("the Asain guy"). Chau was already dead when Mike arrived.

      August 15, 2012 at 7:30PM EST
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    bigperm33

    I did not like this episode. First, the Walt-Skylar dynamic is just annoying. He does not want her as a business partner, he does not want her laundering his money. She does not want to be anywhere near him. So we are to believe that in exchange for allowing her children to live in a different house, she will continue to launder Walt's money? He doesn't need her to do that. I imagine Saul/Mike could find another way to do it very easily. This sending the kids elsewhere is just stupid.

    As for the heist, that was a freight train. You don't just throw the breaks. It doesn't work like that. Though I don't know exactly how long the train was or how fast it was going, it takes about a mile for a freight train to stop. Also, the two guys running the train didn't hear the pumps moving the chemicals and the water? It just seemed so far fetched. Not to mention this train just so happens to pass in a dead area where there is an overpass and they can then have the train come to a stop so the cart they need exactly is right in the spot they need it, over the overpass. The brokendown truck was on a road - and that road crossed over the tracks so the right cart would be hanging over the overpass? I know it is TV, but I just expect more out of this show and for it not to be so completely far fetched.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:13PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Craig "Also, the two guys running the train didn't hear the pumps moving the chemicals and the water? It just seemed so far fetched."

      This. Based on the distance of the engineer & conductor from the action, it seemed like they absolutely should have heard the clanking of equipment (Jesse wasn't exactly trying to be quiet), the radioing between Mike and Walt, and ESPECIALLY Walt shouting up to Jesse from ground level. The poor execution of that sequence ruined any suspense or giddiness it might have engendered in me.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST
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      Warwick Those things seem relatively minor compared to Gus being able to get up and walk after having half of his face blown off.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:23PM EST
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      Mel Lydia made it clear she would not get the trains final manifest until 6 hours before it hit the dead zone, yet the tanks were in the precise spot at least 24 hours in advance with scouting of locations done at least 48 hours in advance. So either the train robbery benefitted from perfect dumb luck or a huge writing error.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:27PM EST
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      Justin V I'm OK with the Walt-Skyler dynamic, and I think the overpass was a lucky break for the team, but not essential. There was nothing in the setup that required they be under a bridge...but how did they know the train would come to a stop anywhere near the road? To me, that's the only detail that doesn't pass muster. Still, a minor complaint.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:28PM EST
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      Justin V Oh yeah, the air wrench Todd was using could have been heard in Arizona

      August 12, 2012 at 11:30PM EST
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      BrettPoker "I did not like this episode."

      This is where I stopped reading.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:36PM EST
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      Ernest B. The noise thing bothered me, too. The only way I can explain it is, the noise of the train covered up the noise of the heist. A large, idling diesel locomotive engine is very loud. If you're standing next to it like they were, it seems plausible that you either couldn't hear the noise of the pump 800 feet away, or you'd mistake it for part of the noise coming from the engine.
      As for distance ... yeah, that's another issue. Was the entire train methylene tanker cars? Didn't look like it, but if it was that could explain it.
      I'm giving the show a lot of liberties here.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:48PM EST
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      bfish I too thought it was kind of questionable that the generator wouldn't be heard by the engineers, but maybe the sound didn't carry too much since it was produced well below the train bed. What made me have to suspend disbelief the most was that they were able to get the giant backhoe (or whatever you call it) out there to the middle of nowhere without attracting attention. The heist set-up was very entertaining but with all of the logistics involved was a bit of a stretch.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:55PM EST
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      jam I work for a train company, and in theory hazardous cars will generally try to be placed in a particular area of the train, so that could give some plausible reason for the location.

      It wasn't a unit train of meth though, or the cars would not be changed out in an intermediary rail yard.

      What was most accurate was that Lydia could esentually track her cargo as a party to the manifest. The dark territory explanation was also generally OK (especially for that area), but it refers more to non-controlled signals for the trains than lack of any communication.

      The worst part of the heist, is that a car of meth would have tamper-proof seals that could not be replicated on the spot. These are not to prevent tampering, but are ID-specific and if broken can notify the receiving party that the car could have been altered from shipping point.

      The part about the weight was correct though-- there are almost no scales used by railroads en route to verify customer-supplied weight info.

      P.S. Those engines idling can be loud, and possibly the crew kept their safety ear plugs in, but yeah things are generally amplified on tracks with no roads or any other noise pollution-- about the only time you can at times here absolutely no noise of a train is stopped.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:03AM EST
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      Jim The engineers couldn't hear all of the commotion because of the tense music that was playing. Silly people.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:13AM EST
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      Guesser Agreed that this episode was a stretch. A train robbery in broad daylight? Will Jane's dad come out of retirement next week and don his air traffic control command to help them air-siphon fuel out of Air Force One on its way to ABQ? Exaggeration, but is there anything these people can't accomplish at this point?

      August 13, 2012 at 12:31AM EST
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      Guesser Oh, and it's odd how Walt needs written instructions from Jim Beaver on operating an assault rifle, but this chemistry teacher, junkie with a heart, and pest control bandit apparently served together as a NASCAR pit crew in their previous lives. That was some flawless fill-and-replace operation, wow.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:39AM EST
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      ChrisW Breaking Bad has been far fetched from its very first episode. A milquetoast chemistry teacher evolves into a crime boss? Outsmarts professional criminals? In reality Walter and Jesse would have died long ago instead they've escape more death traps than Indiana Jones and James Bond combined. And we're watching and commenting about it. What's important in this episode and others like it isn't the crime and how likely or unlikely it is that they could pull it off - who knows maybe they practiced on a dummy tanker Lydia provided them-but the aftercrime. That's what's truly important in the episode. An innocent is dead. How are they going to deal with that -given Mike has a soft spot for children - and how is Walt going to rationalize it away. After all he told Skyler their children weren't in danger and now a child is dead.

      A taste of things to come?

      August 13, 2012 at 1:17AM EST
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      junglejill JAM, thanks for the comment, that was informative.
      This is definitely not the first time Breaking Bad overstretches credibility (the IRS inspection anyone?), but the payoff is always worth it.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:04AM EST
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      Craig "Breaking Bad has been far fetched from its very first episode."

      Every show has its own internal logic. Just because certain aspects of the show's premise are far-fetched doesn't mean "anything goes." I personally thought the train heist worked as part of BB's universe (although I DON'T think it worked particularly well as a scene). But I can see why some people would think it was a bit much.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:09AM EST
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      kbailey3131 Re Skyler and Walt... I think it will very well become the case that Walt decides he doesn't need her to do that anymore. But Skyler, to me, has played all the right notes as a spouse who increasingly becomes horrified for the safety of her husband and family. And later just her family when it becomes clear how stuck she is. She had to launder his money because she was the only one clear thinking enough to determine that his story needed to make sense in general and specifically with her brother in law in dea. Walt's decisions are getting increasingly wreckless so it wouldn't surprise me if he offed Skyler and tried to play it as if she just runs off...he's getting that sociopathic at this point.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:10AM EST
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      BAKUNIN Oh. My. God. This is not the first time I see this "speech against the improbability." This is not even the first time that this speech is used against some event in Breaking Bad. Still, it's a silly and inappropriate speech, since the verisimilitude of a fictional story is established in the history's personal universe, that is, the series itself set the bar of what is and what is not plausible. And since Breaking Bad's synopsis alone is absurd, this entire discussion has no purpose.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:20AM EST
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      me In the scene that took place in Mexico with the cartel members around the pool, didn't they say that some precursor could be mixed by anyone in a lab? So why is our gang so desperate for this one? The blue color is not a good explanation--and it falls apart since today they discussed going back to Sudafed.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:57AM EST
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      me @Mel--They already knew the area where train would pass,. Lydia's manifest onlytold them which tank. They sent the truck and guy to block the tracks so the train had to stop where they were.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:21AM EST
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      sean My understanding is that ME@Mel is right- Lydia told them which car the methalymine was in, so they knew where the truck had to be to stop the train so that the meth car was in the right place.

      August 13, 2012 at 5:11AM EST
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      Harry the Hat Don't worry, next episode we'll learn that Spider Boy was wearing a bullet proof vest because he read Jesse's letter from the future.

      August 13, 2012 at 5:14AM EST
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      SlackerInc I loved this episode and find the objections picayune, but to each his or her own.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:19AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza I don't work for a train company, like JAM, but my next door neighbor was a conductor on a freight line, and he took me down to see the trains when I was convinced I wanted to be one.
      THEY'RE FREAKING LOUD.

      The notion that Jesse could be heard turning stuff under the cars, from 800 feet away is insane. Unlikely that someone is going to see one person on top of one of the end cars, too.

      How do I know it's 800 feet from the crossing? Because Walt, Jesse and Mike measured it out-- they counted aloud. Vince Gilligan has his shortcomings, but does know these boards exist and that people from all different backgrounds dissect every facet of an episode after the fact.

      The glitch for me is that the seals on containers that transmit hazardous waste are not easy to fake. However, I am willing to believe that the inspection is pretty. You track thousands of containers and nothing happens, you get blase.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:16AM EST
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      Itsy Bitsy Skylar I don't work for a train company, but I did sleep in a boxcar on the express.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:20AM EST
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      Greg This is a show that has featured a decapitated head tortoise bomb, near-psychic twin Mexican assassins who go around wearing nice suits and killing people with a fire axe that can cut into pavement, and a man walking away from a bomb exploding three feet from him and adjusting his tie with half his face blown off. Not to mention Jesse pouring hydrofluoric acid (a chemical which in real life will kill you dead if you get even a small amount of it on your skin and is never handled without a full-body hazard suit for that reason) into a bathtub while wearing nothing more than a lab apron and a gas mask. Absolute verisimilitude has never been what "Breaking Bad" is going for and as such I really don't see the point of finding fault with something like this train heist now.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:29AM EST
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      Science bitch The little wheel Jesse was rolling was a yard counter. It was about a foot in diameter so the circumference is about a yard. Thus they were over 800 yards away, or almost half a mile.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:04AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza That measures 800 yards? Then the complaint makes even less sense.

      The only question I had about the train sequence is that I thought hazardous stuff had to have some sort of rod or chain bouncing on the ground to discharge static. Had it been there, it would have jacked Jesse up pretty good.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:56AM EST
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      LarryC The 'action' sequences in almosst all fictional series or movies are far fetched. And those without action are usually far fetched in other ways (coincidences in personal relationships, talents and skills of characters, etc). So far fetchedness is hardly a disqualifier to great TV.

      Relatively speaking, the main thing I found *especially* far fetched in the train scene was that the train stopped right at the crossing. The crew would have gone to full braking and the train would stop where it stopped, more likely well short of the crossing or perhaps after taking out the dump truck(!), rather than *right* in front of the truck.

      But given that piece of coincidence the rest didn't seem especially far fetched. As mentioned, the idling loco would still be loud, and in fact on a real mainline freight from LA on Burlington Northern-Santa Fe (as implied by the script references and area of the map of NM they pointed to; the TV scene was on the tiny 18 mile long Sante Fe Southern Railroad) there might be four idling loco's and the methlymine car perhaps half a mile or more back. *If* they could assume the unlikely coincidence of the train stopping just short of the crossing, the rest of the scene is relatively believable, I think.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:34PM EST
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      T-Formation @Bigperm33 - I agree with the train heist being far fetched. I know it's fiction, but I was scoffing at how much they pulled together to get this off the ground. Obviously, Mike has more connections than Walt or Jesse to get all of the equipment lined up for this ploy. I found it hard to believe that a fumbling ex-school teacher, an exterminator and a (recovering) meth-head can operate all of the tools needed to open, drain/fill and shut a tanker so flawlessly. And shouldn't they be even more worried about a paper trail for all of THAT equipment? Mike grilled Walt about the huge magnet and rental truck in ep 1. And now, they can get everything they need to rob a train in short order? Did the Whites purchase a Rent-a-Center along the way?

      August 13, 2012 at 1:51PM EST
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      Ernest B. If it was 800 yards, instead of 800 feet (and 800 yards is actually a lot closer to the length of most freight trains I've seen), then the noise becomes a non-issue. A half-mile away, with an idling locomotive right next to you, you're not going to hear the sound of the pump, air gun or wrenches.
      @T-Formation: I'm guessing Saul or Mike know a few guys with heavy equipment or construction companies, which makes the dump truck and backhoe available. The pump seems like a pretty basic piece of equipment that's probably rented 100 times per month in Albuquerque to pump out somebody's pool or flooded basement. If you rent the pump (and it didn't look new), nobody would bat an eye if you bought or rented the hoses along with it. The tools were likely laying around someone's shop.
      Hell, acquiring the equipment is the most plausible bit of this whole caper.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:04PM EST
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      Bluto They measured the distance before Lydia let them know which car it was in.

      August 13, 2012 at 4:41PM EST
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      Abel @BLUTO exactly. If the methalymine was in a wagon two or three further or more back, they couldnt've done it.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:51PM EST
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      JustinV @T-Formation--getting the equipment would not be difficult. And they probably ran drills to get the timing down before the heist.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:09PM EST
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      jack_is_laughing I watched this again and they establish that the crossing and the trestle are too far apart to transmit the noise prior to the heist. When Walt is directing the guy with the backhoe to dig the hole and drop the tanks, Mike is a the crossing on a two-way radio. At the crossing, Mike can't hear a thing. I'd assume a backhoe is as loud or louder than a pump, especially considering there was no idling locomotive engine sitting there.

      August 14, 2012 at 10:36AM EST
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    Madmanda

    Once again, Walt doesn't listen to Mike when he's trying to signal them off the train. He's a cocky SOB for sure. I felt like my head was going to explode during that heist. And Jesse is not going to be ok with this - ever. "no kids".

    August 12, 2012 at 11:14PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Greg Grant

    You just knew Landry had to f'k up somehow. I was expecting him to break a leg or neck falling off the train, or forgetting to auto-screw the lug nuts back on, or screwing something up. Was not expecting that.

    I know Gilligan wants us to see Skylar as a three-dimensional and sympathetic character due to Walt's being a dick heel, but sorry, no amount of rational behavior on her part, or trying to make us feel sympathy for her is going to work for me, because I am too invested in the Walt character, not to see her as the btch that keeps screwing up and being in over her head. So far her contributions to the criminal empire has been: misappropriation of funds, bringing more idiots into it, and completely being unable to pull off the money laundering that she was allegedly going to mastermind due to her being an accountant. In the world of Breaking Bad, she might be a nice person, but to me, she's baggage and a failure.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Madmanda I find almost all of her actions beyond believability. At this point, it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't just blow the whistle. She's giving up her kids for the drugs now anyways. It seems to me the damage to the family is done- cut a deal with the dea and get out.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:23PM EST
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      sepinwall Going to the DEA now screws Hank twice-over (for having Heisenberg pay his medical bills and for not knowing Heisenberg was his brother-in-law). I'm not sure that's her primary reason for not cutting a deal, but it's a big stumbling block.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:26PM EST
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      Justin V Is this show dragging people down the same spiral of immorality as Walt? That would be both fascinating and terrifying. Hopefully you were already some kind of villian!

      August 12, 2012 at 11:33PM EST
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      ds Poor Sky can't win. If she didn't try to get her kids out of there, everyone would be screaming for her head. Now that she's protecting her kids, it ain't enough. Well, given that Spider boy got shot as collateral damage, the stakes are pretty high for Walt's kids, n'est-ce pas?

      But equally too bad is Sky's decision to stay in the house...hmm, why doesn't she move into that beautiful expensive condo? Oh, yeah, it was bought with drug proceeds. Poor Sky just got screwed again trying to do the right thing...

      August 12, 2012 at 11:39PM EST
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      Kyle Yeah, marrying somebody who suddenly decides to become a murderous meth cook out of the blue and being unwillingly thrown into all that involves, trying to make sure the money laundering is done absolutely right so that Hank's treatment is covered, and trying to keep her kids away from potential death...what a bitch.

      Seriously?

      I can not comprehend this. Take Jesse for example...I feel sympathy for him because I feel like he's ultimately a good kid at his core who has made bad choices and suffered some malicious manipulation. However he's also killed two people and is a meth cook, but I sympathize. You probably do too. But none for Skyler? Of the characters who have committed crime on this show, she is easily the most moral person of the crowd.

      Walter White...I do not think we are meant to be sympathetic with him anymore. He has crossed over. Vince Villigan said in an interview once that with each episode he hopes "More people lost sympathy for this guy." Walter White might be the main character, but he's shifted into the antagonist at this point. There is no more Walter White. There is only Heisenberg. And Heisenberg is not a sympathetic dude.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:46PM EST
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      LJ Greg, I'm afraid you're not watching the same show. We are not supposed to root for the criminal. I doubt the show is about us rooting for the criminal empire.

      Skylar retains a moral core, which is a good thing.

      Vic Mackey and Tony Soprano are meant to repulse us, and Walt--while a great watch--is a repulsive human being at this point. In this context Skylar is a GREAT addition to the show.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:02AM EST
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      ds @Kyle, I do feel Skyler is the most moral person on the show. I am just reacting to the constant criticisms of others with my own, ahem, ironies. I have tremendous sympathy for Skyler and for Jesse. I just feel she can't catch a break from the critics no matter what she does.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:06AM EST
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      Kyle DS, I agree, my reply was directed at Greg Grant. I am confounded by some of the criticism I see directed at Skyler, usually by people who have no problem forgiving Walt for far more sinister actions. I don't want to throw sexism accusations around willy nilly, but it's hard to think of another explanation that makes sense.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:13AM EST
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      madmanda @sepinwall- totally blanked on how that would affect hank (although we know that's coming anyways, unless skyler gets her wish of the cancer returning).
      I really don't dislike her character. Im just not totally clear on why she'd continue as his accomplice of sorts. She could just take the kids and leave also, as another option. He can't blow her in without outing himself as well, correct?
      Although I suppose most people aren't necessary clear on their own motivations anyways.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:29AM EST
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      Dizz I was rooting for Scarface to go out with a bang, and I'm rooting for Mr. White to do the same. I get what you are saying Greg. I watch this show for the bad guys and even though he may deserve to die, I'm hoping he takes everyone down with them at the end.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:09AM EST
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      kbailey3131 She's been unsuccessful? That money is still flowing through a more legitimate business than anything Saul or Walt were planning to come up with. They money she gave to Ted was a business cost and made sense. The problem was Walt oversold his position in the enterprise. She is not privvy to all that we see, she only knows what Walt tells her. So when Mr I Am The Danger comes home suddenly looking for cash instead of being Scarface she finally sees the truth. If left to his own devices, Walt might be in a federal prison right now.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:19AM EST
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      Jenny In last week's episode, when Skyler was talking through her potential plans, she mentioned giving herself bruises and going to the authorities for domestic violence. Walt's counter, if I recall correctly, was that Skyler would never hurt Junior that way by having him see his dad as a wife-beater. Skyler seemed to accept that response. I'd imagine it would apply even more-so to turning Walt in for is actual crimes.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:28AM EST
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      me Skyler would be doing her kids a favor to tell them Dad is up to something bad and they have to leave him. Walt already told Hank that Skyler thinks he's a bad father. The truth would not hurt the kids as much as her being in danger would. And Walt could go to prison in which case Walt, Jr. would find out AND hold it against her for not telling him.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:00AM EST
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      SlackerInc What Todd ("Landry") did was horrifying and certainly not what Jesse wanted to happen, but I'm not sure it can technically be called a "f*ck up". It does solve the "no witnesses" problem, after all. And presumably Mike will make sure the body is never found, so it doesn't link them to the train but is treated as a likely kidnapping (presumably by a sexual predator) by the FBI.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:22AM EST
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      ds @Slacker,
      Well, it is a screwup because a dead kid brings a lot of unwanted attention to that neck of the woods when his body is found. Unless they dissolve it a la Victor, Emilio, et al but a missing kid in that neck of the woods also raises some questions. If the gang had just continue with their premise and told the boy they were fixing a truck that got stuck on the tracks or maybe they were repairing the train, it could have been smoothed over. But the instinct was to shoot first and ask questions later - typically defining a screwup. Lydia narrowly escaped the same fate, so the boy's death is an interesting (almost) parallel.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:24AM EST
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      Greg You find Walt more sympathetic than Skyler?!?!? WHAAA?!?!?

      Honestly, I have no idea how anyone could look at that way at this point. Skyler is an occasionally abrasive and impulsive woman who does some stupid, obnoxious, and/or dishonest things in the interest of protecting her family, but she's still recognizably human. Walt is a manipulative, innocent-endangering, murdering egomaniac. He's beyond a "dick heel" - he's a monster. It baffles my mind that anyone could still find him sympathetic at this point.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:40AM EST
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      keith Skyler is awful. She's uncool. Morality is irrelevant in stories - it's something we project on to them later - but in the moment you can either be cool or uncool. That is why Skyler is hated.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:46AM EST
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      Greg @keith - I get why people might not like Skyler or find her sympathetic. I don't share their opinion, but I understand it. But not liking her because you like Walt and want him to succeed? That's bizarre. Cool or not Walt has been revealed as a horrible human being and I don't see how someone could cheer him on as he manipulates and uses people who trust him, blows people up, poisons innocent kids, rapes his wife, endangers his family, etc. Personally I'm rooting for him to go down hard at this point, as is pretty much everyone I know who watches the show.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:38AM EST
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      joanne Justin, your comment; "Is this show dragging people down the same spiral of immorality as Walt? That would be both fascinating and terrifying." That's exactly what I've been thinking lately. Especially after reading the vicious comments about Skyler here and even more so on the AMC BrBa blog. So many people rooting for the repulsive Walter and, yes, sexist imaginings about Skyler really makes me have a foreboding feeling.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:27AM EST
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      StopBashiNGskyler @justin. All of these pro-Walt and anti-skyler comments, just shows how fucked up people's priorities are and reminds me of the terrifying reactions many people have had to the Penn State scandal. Football is "cooL", so let's let that take priority over the sanctity of children. Walt is "cool" so let's pretend that he's a better person than Skyler. What is wrong with you people?

      August 13, 2012 at 11:46AM EST
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      keith I'm confused as to why you would need to take sides. They're both great characters, brilliantly realised. Walt's arc says he'll probably be dead soon. Skyler won't ever be happy though because she's a bad person too.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:00PM EST
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      Gazer It's quite possible to dislike Skyler
      while at the same time acknowledging that Walt is a monster. Of course, she hasn't committed murder or manufactured/distributed drugs, but Skyler has always been a pretty nasty piece of work. My antipathy to her developed even before Walt broke bad, for the following reasons.

      She was completely controlling and emasculating. She no doubt contributed to Walt's insane need to be respected because she emasculated and humiliated him at every turn. Remember the birthday hand job when she couldn't even be bothered to look away from her computer screen? She was also unfaithful with Ted, which happened before the series even started. It also always bothered me that Walt was busting his hump working two jobs, including the car wash, which was clearly humiliating for him, while Sky sat on her fat ass at home pretending to be a writer. Why wasn't she working if the family's financial straits were so dire? Walt Jr certainly didn't need a full-time stay-at-home parent at that point, and these days most pregnant women work right up until they deliver. So that rankled, as did the fact that she pushed Walt to go for the expensive cancer treatment, which set everything in motion. I'm pro-choice - I believe that the sick person gets to make the choices about their own treatment, and she wouldn't allow Walt even that much autonomy. He also really didn't want to take money from Gretchen and Elliott, and again she pushed him to do so. It seemed clear to me that her desire to try to heal Walt was not done out of love for him but out of fear that her meal ticket was going away, leaving her stranded with a newborn, a handicapped teen and no real skills. In general, she went through life bullying everyone. Remember when she returned the baby gift Marie stole and then faked a health crisis when they accused her of returning stolen goods? Just another little character development to show how she wouldn't hesitate to lie and manipulate to get out of a sticky situation.

      And then of course she took to the criminal life with ease, again bullying and manipulating everyone in sight - Saul, Ted, the car wash owner.

      You do not have to believe that she's as morally bad as Walt to find her completely unlikeable, unsympathetic and morally suspect in her own right.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:14PM EST
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      JustinV @Gazer--interesting points. I do think it's unfair to say that she wanted Walt alive for the "meal ticket" instead of genuine love. I didn't find her so controlling and emasculating as I found Walt to just be a pussy early on. And she was absolutely right about Walt accepting the money for the treatment. She knew that "Grey Matter" would never have existed without Walt's work, and the only thing keeping him from accepting was ugly, naked pride. Like I said, you have some interesting points, but I find the faults you list exaggerated.

      The original commenter called Skyler "baggage". In other words, she was in the way of Walt's criminal enterprise. But that's what wives are for! They're SUPPOSED to act as a deterrent to our worse instincts. And that's what everyone is complaining about whether they know it or not. Skyler gets in Walt's way. I think by the end of the series EVERYONE will know that she didn't "annoy us" ENOUGH.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:30PM EST
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      Greg Grant @Gazer. This. Thank you for summing up some portions of my position as well as bringing other interesting arguments into it. Good read.

      @kbailey3131, she is incompetent. She flat out shuts down Saul's attempts at explaining money laundering with a dismissal and tells Walt she can do it. Only she can't. She completely underestimated Walt's earnings, and so she resorts to doing exactly what Walt did - hiding the money in the house. Her attempts at bribing Ted were UTTER FAILURE. I don't care how you try to spin it as a cost of doing business. She got herself into a bad situation with Ted. Made it worse with money. Then double down on stupid, with more money. Then had to go to Saul to resolve it, and all the while retaining this high-lariously "moral core" of which LJ waxed poetic about. Yeah. Very moral. Except when she goes outside it due to "necessity." Riiiiiight. She's incompetent.

      @Kyle, go ahead and be confounded, but I am much more interested in watching a compelling character than somebody who brings nothing to the table but emotional baggage and bores me tears. And saying "I don't want to throw the sexism card" right before throwing it, yeah, that doesn't let you off the hook. You still threw it. She's boring and has alternated between confusion, incompetence, attempts at taking control that result in failure, and now she thinks she's doing what's best for the kids, while completely ignoring the big picture: if Walt gets caught, it all goes down, not just Walt, but everything his money did and brought. She can't build a wall between her half-assed attempts at morality and legality and the gains she made through the fruits of his illegal labors. Yet, despite all that, she still insists she can build that wall. How are you going to save the kids if they live in a different house or even state? This is a drug empire. Empire has borders beyond four walls. She's not grasping the situation, and her coming to grips with it in the most self-pitying way possible is not helping.

      Marie has shown more resolution in her handling of her husband's injury than Skylar has shown in dealing with her husband's cancer. And Marie is a klepto with her own forest of psychological problems.

      Skylar wants to be The Good One. Wanting doesn't make it so.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:42PM EST
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      dan @ Greg Grant. I don't think anybody is denying that Walt is the more compelling character nor is anyone saying Skyler is perfect. She definitely has her flaws. But I just don't get this intense hatred for her. Walt practically raped Skyler and people are still rooting for Walt. That's nuts!

      And as far as Skyler being boring, I don't know how you could find the Walt-Skyler bedroom scene in episode 4 of this season boring. I thought that was one of the most intense scenes of the whole show.

      She also was in the "I am the one who knocks" scene and the incredible "Crawl Space" scene. Again, not as compelling as Walt, but it's just wrong to say Skyler's character brings nothing to the table.

      "She's not grasping the situation, and her coming to grips with it in the most self-pitying way possible is not helping." I think that's a bit unfair. Walt not taking money out to pay for his cancer treatment out of sheer pride is handling a situtation in as self-pitying a way as possible. Being angry, confused, and afraid of a man who killed a drug kingpin and almost raped you is a little more understandable.

      August 13, 2012 at 10:56PM EST
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      fringfan @sepinwall. I can't see how Hank is compromised. As ASAC, he would get credit for finally capturing "the great Heisenberg." A little collateral embarrassment, sure, but Hank's heart has always been in the right place and I'm sure he would choose family safety and doing "the right thing" over career advancement.

      August 14, 2012 at 1:16PM EST
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      Mahmoud Fayed >" Walt practically raped Skyler"

      Except he didn't. Walt has enough disgusting qualities about him without you having to resort to outlandish claims, buddy.

      August 14, 2012 at 1:50PM EST
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      SlackerInc It's hardly outlandish, Mahmoud. I myself would remove (and have eschewed in my own comments) the qualifier "practically" and state simply that he did rape Skyler, full stop. I don't deny that this opinion would be controversial, but it wouldn't be a fringe opinion either. Most feminist women, I feel sure (and I'm married to one and friends with others) would call that scene (with Skyler in bed looking terrified and Hank behind her) rape, particularly if they knew the whole context.

      A cite, with a relevant excerpt:

      http://open.salon.com/blog/hugo_schwyzer/2008/10/11/rape_enthusiastic_consent_and_the_stoplight_problem
      "The message that needs to be repeated over and over again is this one: true consent is never tacit, it is never silent. Too many young men become date rapists by confusing silence with a clear, verbal affirmation."

      August 14, 2012 at 2:07PM EST
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      SlackerInc Ugh, I did it again. Obviously I meant to say *Walt* raped Skyler, not Hank. (I think part of the problem is that Cranston made a name for himself playing a character named Hal.)

      August 14, 2012 at 2:24PM EST
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      Miles @SlackerInc:

      What?! I thought all this rape talk was about the face-to-fridge scene a few seasons back.

      You're saying that Walt recently raped Skyler when he put his hand on her shoulder and kissed her cheek? If that's really what you're saying, I think you probably owe actual rape victims an apology.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:43PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Miles,

      I would characterise the scene (at the end of "Madrigal") quite differently, as these reviews/recaps of the episode do:

      http://www.tvequals.com/2012/07/22/breaking-bad-madrigal-review/
      "Only Skyler seems to know the true depths of the monster within. The scenes between Skyler and Walt this season have been some of the most uncomfortable moments of the entire series. From his 'forgiveness' last week to his pseudo-rape this week, Walter White is no longer a man to be pitied or identified with. He’s a man to be reviled."

      (I don't agree with diminishing the act by adding "pseudo-", but that doesn't disturb me as much as attempts to absolve Walt completely from being guilty of anything "rapey" in that scene, which I guarantee you is not the interpretation of the scene intended by the writers, director, or actors who created it.)

      http://tvline.com/2012/07/22/breaking-bad-season-5-episode-2-recap/
      --------
      “We do what we do for good reasons,” Walt whispers. Kiss kiss. “You’ve got nothing to worry about.” Arm rub arm rub. “There’s no better reason than family.” Aaaand thank you, Breaking Bad, for the fade to black that spares us a full-on, against-Skyler’s-will sex scene… though I’m not sure what’s worse – seeing it or imagining it.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:11PM EST
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      ds Huh, how funny is it, for the anti-Skyler posters, their condemnation of Sky's 'controlling' and 'emasculating' behaviour whereas these qualities are the very thing that Walt's supporters are cheering him on for. They want him to control Mike, and take away Hank's power, and punish, oh yes, punish his wife. It' a strange distinction.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:59PM EST
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      Miles Wow, Slacker... you and I are on completely different wavelengths here. I respect your opinion, but have to disagree pretty strongly.

      Whether you imagine it or not is not important - there was no off-screen rape implied by the director in any way. In fact, before it fades to black, Walt retreats to his side of the bed, not touching her at all. You assume that because it went dark, he decided afterward to forcibly rape her? That's a hell of a leap, and not supported by anything in the show.

      Was Walt being "rapey"? Yeah, I guess, in a broad sense of the term. He can't see Skyler's face while he's genuinely trying to console her and win her over, so we as the audience are aware of the feelings she's hiding (or had been hiding, to that point) from Walt. It was an unfortunate and unusual husband-wife moment, but there's no reason at that time for Walt to think he's victimizing her.

      I take issue with you throwing around the term "rape" to describe the interaction between Walt and Skyler. Rape is horrific, not just uncomfortable.

      You support your opinion by linking to TVEquals.com, a site dedicated to the idea that everyone's opinion is equal. That is simply not true - if you cannot back up your opinion using source material and instead rely on biases and assumptions, your opinion is not equal.

      August 14, 2012 at 4:25PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Miles, we definitely disagree strongly. I think I've made my position clear, so I won't continue to respond point by point. But I do want to point out that in my previous comment, due to not being able to use blockquotes* it may not have been clear that there were only two sentences in that comment that were my original writing--the first sentence of the comment, and the later one in parentheses, starting with "I don't agree with diminishing...". Those sentences below the -------- dashes that you refer to were written by the recapper at TVLine.

      *Or can we? Here's a test: [blockquote]TEST[/blockquote]

      August 14, 2012 at 4:57PM EST
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      dan @ Miles, Even if that scene doesn't involve rape (and that's a big if. I think I read somewhere that the writers actually wanted the scene to be more graphic but weren't allowed due to regulations. Hmmm, I wonder what the more graphic presentation of the scene would entail!), it clearly involves abuse. You are missing the point and using a strawman, when you are trying to prove that the scene did not technically involve rape.

      "It was an unfortunate and unusual husband-wife moment, but there's no reason at that time for Walt to think he's victimizing her." Say what????

      @ DS, I completely agree. I'm telling you it's like people's reactions to the Penn State stuff (not literally, just in the sense that one POV is clearly wrong, yet the anti-Skyler and pro-football, could-care-less-about-child-molesting crowd, will never admit it no matter how much evidence to the contrary). Joe Pa is a great football coach so let's forgive him for doing a petty little thing like covering up child rape. And, meanwhile, how dare the football program be punished! Walt is a badass and makes me feel like one, so let's overlook the fact that he is abusing his wife and call Skyler's traumitic reactions to Walt's actions pathetic, bitchy, and as "self-pitying as possible."

      @ Miles again. "That is simply not true - if you cannot back up your opinion using source material and instead rely on biases and assumptions, your opinion is not equal."

      O.K. how's this for source material? This quote coming from actress Anna Gunn who plays Skyler, referring to the intense bedroom scene 2 episodes after the "psuedo" rape scene.

      "“It ended up as a dance, with Bryan [Cranston] pursuing me all around the room. It was really like I was trapped animal that was Bryan’s prey.”

      So Miles, I guess "being one's prey" is fine in your world. No victimization going on here!

      August 14, 2012 at 5:04PM EST
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      Miles dan -

      Wow! Talk about a strawman! You start describing a completely different scene from a LATER EPISODE to try to tear down my argument for using source material at the time of the episode we were already discussing. Please don't be dishonest or misleading, it only muddies the discussion.

      My assertion was that not only did they not show a rape anywhere, they did not even imply it. Do you really, honestly believe that we were supposed to infer by him turning away and going to sleep that he suddenly woke up later and raped her? I'm trying hard to be respectful of your opinion, but that's just ridiculously untrue. I'm honestly wondering right now if I'm being trolled.

      If you want to talk about this scene, then talk about this scene using the source material that occurs during and preceding it. You cannot bring up an actress' description of a scene that occurs two episodes later. And even if you could, you didn't! That later scene that you brought up for no apparent reason was an example of Walt being a bully and an asshole, cornered and defensive. They took turns with her making threats and him shooting them down. NOT RAPE. Being an asshole does not automatically imply rape.

      I repeat, there was NO RAPE. Neither of you have said anything to support the existence of Walt being a violent rapist besides "I think I read somewhere..." and that he was "rapey".

      Seriously, people - SOURCE MATERIAL.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:26PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Dan, thank you for your comment--helps restore my faith in humanity. I would add to the comment you posted from Anna Gunn this one from an interview where she specifically references the scene we are discussing:

      "After we shoot certain scenes, I feel like I need to take a shower. A long, hot one. I've got about a thirty-minute ride home from the studio to where I live in Albuquerque, so that ride is important. Music is selected carefully to help me shed it. Sometimes in watching the episode, I will start to feel, in my body, the way I felt when I was filming the scene. Like at the end of Episode 2, where Walt climbs in the bed next to Skyler – I felt this feeling of [makes gagging sound] in my body, the same feeling that was going on during the filming it. I can’t watch it too close to bedtime."

      Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/q-a-breaking-bad-star-anna-gunn-on-skylers-suffering-20120730#ixzz23Ybo5QZx

      August 14, 2012 at 5:26PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Miles, that's another strawman. The crux of the problem here is that you (and a lot of other people, which is why I acknowledged it's a controversial issue) believe "violent rape" is the only kind. But many other people (including me) believe it is rape if there is not "enthusiastic affirmative consent". We're not going to settle this longstanding argument here, but you seem unaware that there are MANY people who do see it this way.

      What does seem clear though is that the writers and actors intend an impression of the scene that did not register with you (and I find that even more disturbing than the scene itself, frankly). You were right that Dan quoted Gunn referring to a different scene. You and I were posting at the same time, though, and I don't think you can deny that the quote I posted from Gunn was in fact about the correct scene. She is characterising it as feeling almost like being a victim in a horror movie ("can't watch it too close to bedtime" and you are all like "awww...look, Walt is being so sweet to his wife and she doesn't appreciate it". That is just...no.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:34PM EST
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      Miles I agree with you two (man, I really hope you're different people) on a couple of points...

      There are more types of rape than "violent rape". Of course I know this, it's 2012. There's date rape, there's emotionally/mentally coerced sex, which is very much a form of rape. Hell, I'm one of the few who hold their ground that Pete Campbell raped the au pair.

      Walt was crossing a line. He knew she was emotionally pulling away from him, and rather than confront and fix the issue, he made things worse by trying to use affection as a substitute for respect.

      This much, we seem to agree on. What I am saying is that this show has neither shown nor even HINTED at sexual contact between the two in a very very long time. None at all in Season 5, in fact.

      Do not patronize me or tell me that I'm "disturbing you" because I ask that you use source material to back up your claims. This is something neither of you have yet to do. Yes, Anna Gunn says that those scenes are disturbing and slimy and everything in between.

      I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here - you two keep describing a rape. Please be more specific and concrete. When? How? In his sleep? Off camera, and never once alluded to?

      Are you saying that he LITERALLY raped her? I mean, had sex, of any kind, with her? If so, you are factually incorrect, because the show does not support your claim, nor does Anna Gunn's interview, or any phantom article you allude but don't like to.

      Or are you saying that his caressing her arm and kissing her cheek is a form of rape? Because if that's the case, you need to apologize to rape victims everywhere for trivializing a very serious issue.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:59PM EST
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      SlackerInc Sorry for serial posting, but there is something Miles has repeatedly posted that is straight up false, that I think needs to have the record set straight about. I still have "Madrigal" on my DVR (along with all of this season's eps; I can access any previous season of course on Netflix), and was itching earlier to go back and check first chance I could whether it was true, as Miles has repeatedly asserted, that "In fact, before it fades to black, Walt retreats to his side of the bed, not touching her at all."

      And the answer is: no, this does not happen in the scene. Opinions and impressions are subjective, but this is just factually untrue. The only time Walt turns away from Skyler momentarily is to pull his underwear off. Then he immediately gets back right up against her (at this point, raping her IMO), and that is where he is when the scene goes to black, followed by the Vince Gilligan credit screen.

      August 14, 2012 at 6:07PM EST
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      dan @Miles, Slacker provided source material for that specific scene.

      And the scene from "fifty-one" is just more evidence that Walt is abusing and victimizing Skyler. I don't see how that is a strawman from my main point: that the Skyler bashing and Walt sympathizing crowd is out of control and, as Slacker points out, quite disturbing!

      Remember, this show is called "BreakinG Bad"! This is a great show, with every scene having a point. vince gilligan has said multiple times, that he wants the audience to HATE Walter White! I have a feeling that his goal will not be realized entirely, judging by the way people will go at extreme lengths to justify Walt's actions.

      August 14, 2012 at 6:13PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Miles: Again, we posted at the same time. I actually feel a bit better knowing that you have this misapprehension of what happened in the scene (though I wonder how that happened originally: did someone or something distract you right at the end while I was riveted to the screen?). Fortunately the video is available on the AMC website. Your comments about 2012 etc. sound fairly enlightened, so I look forward optimistically to hearing an update on your thoughts on the scene after rewatching it very carefully:

      http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/talked-about-scenes-episode-502-breaking-bad-madrigal

      August 14, 2012 at 6:16PM EST
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      dan And Slacker's comment actually made me rewatch that scene (yes I have all season 5 episodes still saved on my DVR as well) and it's even worse than that. Right before the screen fades to black, as he's saying "[yada yada] family", he is caressing Skyler's breast for like 5 seconds. In addition, Skyler has this incredibly terrifying look on her face.

      Miles, you said "rape is horrifying, not just uncomfortable". Well, watch the scene again and tell me Skyler is not horrified.

      August 14, 2012 at 6:42PM EST
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      Self-loathing FTW Is the "OMG Someone Criticized Skylar" crew the biggest group of weenies on the entire planet? Would someone please mention how everyone that dislikes her character is misogynist, re-iterate how much of a monster Walt is for the 675th time, and that we're watching the show wrong as well? Thanks in advance.

      August 14, 2012 at 7:27PM EST
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      SlackerInc Self Loathing, you are clearly crossing an ad hominem line prohibited on this site. Also: I don't like Skyler and would never want to be married to someone that uptight, as I've been saying all along; my issue is not "oh noes, someone dislikes Skyler" but "someone still thinks Walt is a sympathetic protagonist, despite the showrunner's very clear intent (stated in countless interviews) to portray him as the opposite".

      August 14, 2012 at 9:04PM EST
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      ds FWIW, and the quotes from Anna Gunn on the blocking of that scene in the bedroom were appreciated, BTW - Bryan Cranston described in an earlier interview how he directed the Fridge-Face scene, where he tries to have rough sex with Skyler. He said he was enormously concerned about shooting that scene and paramount in his mind were making sure she was physically safe, and emotionally safe.

      Also, FWIW, I dislike both characters, for different reasons. But I like Sky more than Walt, so does that make me a weenie :)? Sky operates within her choices as she is supposed to do as a fictional character. Walt does too. It's tough to know who is more of a tragic figure in all of this, but I'm betting they're pretty equal. Slacker, Dan, Miles et al, great debate, btw.

      August 14, 2012 at 9:40PM EST
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      keith There's nothing wrong with liking Walt. You're meant to sympathise with protagonists. They represent us. I didn't like him from the start but he's been the same person the whole time.

      August 14, 2012 at 9:49PM EST
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      SlackerInc I guess we can take Miles's silence as a tacit and sheepish mea culpa, though I had hoped he would own up to it personally.

      Incidentally, anyone who doubts that Skyler did genuinely love Walt at one time should watch a scene in Season 2, Ep. 3, "Bit by a Dead Bee". It goes from the 4:30 mark to 6:00.

      August 15, 2012 at 6:03AM EST
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      ds Keith, I totally agree. I like Walt to the extent that I do sympathize to a certain extent with him. That is the point as you say, for protagonists and they would not be as skilfully drawn if they weren't sympathetic. I sympathize with Skyler too. At the risk of sounding ad hominem about the anti-Skyler faction, I wonder why they are even watching BrBa if they cannot take the time to put the labels aside. To me, it's almost an insult to Vince Gilligan's skill in drawing characters when viewers just outright dismiss Skyler, as 'annoying' and 'controlling', or why they watch only Walt and not the interactions between the characters. This is where most of the value in the characterizations are. My understanding of both Walt and Sky grow immeasurably by watching how they act in concert with each other, even when they are bitterly opposed.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:57AM EST
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      Miles Slacker, no need for a silent mea culpa from me. I don't have Walt-like pride. I logged off yesterday when I left work and watched the episode at home, just now got back to my computer. You're right about several key facts that I got wrong.

      Walt takes off his underwear, which I didn't notice on first viewing (and somehow neither did the several people watching with me). At first watch, I guess it looked to me like he was adjusting the sheets, or just turning over and then changing his mind - it wasn't all that clear until I was actually looking for it.

      Also, the scene concludes with his arm still draped around her, and not with him turning back away, which I had remembered wrong. Does this imply that they had some kind of sex, consensual or no, off camera? Now that I'm actually looking for that specifically, I'd say there's a strong chance.

      What I don't buy, though, is that Walt (to that point in the series) has any reason to think he'd be raping her. This entire scene, he can't see her face - only we can. Now imagine if this scene were shot in a different way - say, from behind Walt, or completely in the dark. Something that represents Walt's POV. Would we, as the audience, know that she was sobbing and terrified?

      Look, he obviously knows he's starting to lose her. I don't think he realizes he's lost her for good already. He's still in "I forgive you" mode - his ego and pride simply won't let him acknowledge that his wife doesn't love him. What the thinks he's doing is smoothing things over and taking control of the situation by winning her over with affection, bit by bit.

      Of course we, as the audience, know he's wrong. We know that his actions are only making things worse. I'm just still not prepared to say that Walt raped his wife. It doesn't make sense to me from a storytelling perspective - yet.

      August 15, 2012 at 10:34AM EST
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      dan Miles, I pretty much agree with your take on the scene. I agree that Walt does not realize he is raping Skyler and that the scene would be a lot different if we did not see Skyler's reaction.

      However, we did see Skyler's reaction and this whole discussion started because people were calling Skyler bitchy and behaving in "as self-pitying a manner as possible." That is what I'm most concerned about.

      I really don't care to debate whether or not the scene was technically a rape scene. The bottom line is it felt like rape/abuse/victimization to Skyler and rightfully so and her actions after that scene are completely understandable.

      On a side note, doesn't this whole debate just prove how great this show is? Many critics of the show say that a weakness is that the it gets worse on a second viewing. Well, in Miles' case, with "Madrigal", that's just not true. He picked up on something that was missed in a first viewing.

      Also, I wish people would stop bitching about the little plot details being unbelievable like the ricin cigarette, the heist scene, etc. The core of BB is the characters, not the plot, and this show has had fascinating characters, and the best character development of all time.

      Regarding the heist scene, what really matters is that a kid was shot and how that will impact Jesse, Walt, and Mike going forward. Jesse, Walt, and Mike matter. The intricacies of the heist don't.

      August 15, 2012 at 11:48AM EST
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      Give it up "my issue is not "oh noes, someone dislikes Skyler" but "someone still thinks Walt is a sympathetic protagonist, despite the showrunner's very clear intent (stated in countless interviews) to portray him as the opposite"."
      __________________________
      Some people root for Darth Vader. Some people root for Bricktop in Snatch. Some people root for damn Sauron - evil incarnate - because they think the Hobbits are annoying. This stuff is not objective, despite your attempts to frame it so. Its fiction. Walt could kill 100 kids and he'd still be more interesting to watch than his wife.

      August 15, 2012 at 12:21PM EST
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      SlackerInc @Miles: Glad to see you back. I agree with you and Dan that Walt does not think he raped his wife. But to me, that's just part of the whole package of his soul having turned black inside without his acknowledging it.

      I would say that anyone with normal intelligence or higher can tell when their partner is interested, is responding to your overtures, etc. If you persist in using them to sexually gratify yourself so long as they don't forcibly push you away or shout "NO!" it is rape in some people's eyes, and not in others. A grey area so far as the law is concerned, most definitely. As far as ethics are concerned (because, after all, there are a lot of things people can do or say to each other that are not legally crimes but are still morally repugnant), it's pretty loathsome IMO.

      @Give, you are conflating two very different things. Is Walt interesting to watch? Absolutely. Most villains are. But he IS the villain now, is the point. That is of course the central premise of this show, and the transformation has been brilliantly handled like so many other elements of the show.

      A microcosm of the transition can be seen btw in Googling "breaking bad season 1", clicking "Images", then changing 1 to 2, then 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 (the main hits should be the DVD covers). Only three transitions there, yet while each of them is a reasonable jump from the one just previous, it is a pretty stark and jarring difference to compare 1 to 4. That image on S4 is so great, but would have seemed OTT and kind of unbelievable back before Jane died IMO.

      August 15, 2012 at 1:27PM EST
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      ireneinidaho If anyone would like to hear Vince Gilligan talk about the maybe-rape scene in 502, including how it was originally shot and why it was edited to what we saw, listen to the Breaking Bad Insider Podcast #502 (free on iTunes). That scene is discussed only briefly, since J. Banks was a guest that day; it starts at 1:08. Unlike VG, I think the way it was shown was more disturbing than what was originally shot, but either way, it was painful to watch.
      And if you want to hear Anna and VG talk about the hand job in the pilot, she's a guest on podcast #504, and that is discussed for about 10 min starting about 19 min. You can also find her audition for the part, using that scene, on YouTube.

      August 15, 2012 at 10:09PM EST
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      NolaCherie http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-5

      Episode 502 Insider Podcast (1:08)

      Vince Gilligan: Yeah, Anna Gunn didn't have a whole lot to play in this episode, but, man, what she did play, she played to the hilt. That is.... Talk about shooting that scene, that last scene, it's a oner.

      Director: We shot it as a oner, but I also had a high angle that we had the option to cut into if we wanted to, but,,,,you cut it short, right?

      Vince: Yeah

      Director: Do you want to talk about what was really there?

      Vince: Sure

      Editor: Wow

      Director: So what was really written was, uh, Walt comes into the bedroom and he's talking to Skylar and talking about Ted, and he starts coming on to her and he, uh, he takes off his underwear and he, uh, he starts to get fresh with her, and...

      Vince: (deridingly) Fresh.

      everyone laughs at the choice of the word "fresh

      Director: Fresh, that was really Canadian, I mean frisky, he starts to get frisky with her, and he takes off, uh, he takes off, uh, he reaches under the covers and takes off her underwear and she knows that he wants to have sex with her, but she doesn't want to, and so, the way it was written was that before he can, she reaches over and she gives him a hand job.

      Vince: Reaches behind her and...

      Director: Reaches behind her, and ....

      Vince: Does a little pre-emptive hand job

      Director: Yes, does a little pre-emptive hand job to free up, to prevent from actually having sex. um... I guess that's interpretation, the whole Clinton thing, sorry.....

      Vince: Wha???

      Director: Well, some people say that would be sex, but anyway, it's to....

      Vince: Hey, I'll take it!

      Laughter

      Vince: Works for me!

      laughter continues

      Director: So, anyway, we shot that, and we shot it as this great oner, and it is really creepy, it is really, which we wanted it to be....

      Editor: It's really, really disturbing

      Director: Iit's really disturbing.

      Editor: Actually, watching the dailies was really disturbing

      Director: That's what we wanted, was to make it really disturbing

      Vince: I think what's there is already disturbing as hell. We did not cut it because it was too disturbing, we cut it, as I was saying earlier to Johnathan about the scene with him boxing with Kaylee, these episodes have to be exactly....you've got it written down somewhere, 47 minutes and

      Editor: 7 seconds and four frames

      Vince: 47 minutes and 7 seconds and four frames long, each...

      Editor: Including the credits and the main title, too

      Vince: Yes, so .... it's got to be exactly to that frame, no more, no less, and to that end, a lot of the job in the editing room, after Kelly and Skip make it perfect and the directors make it perfect with them, and then I add my little things I want to change here and there, than there's a whole other pass you often have to do to get it right to time, and anyway, so this scene was even more...., if you were. if you had your teeth put on edge by watching the end of this episode, if you were like "Oh my god, that is just, that is so disturbing, ugh, eww my skin is crawling.....it was even worse in the original cut.

      Someone: Is it on the DVD?

      Vince: Well, now that we've talked about it maybe we should put it in the DVD, the uncut version of it. It's not any more R-rated, and it's somewhat oblique what it is she's doing, it just, uh, I was very troubled to have to cut it for time, but now that it's gone I don't miss it, actually. I think it......

      Director: We went back and forth a lot on it.

      Vince: The only thing bad about cutting it is that she was proactive in the longer version. She was doing something to keep him from having sex with her, it plays.....

      Director: Which made her a little stronger....

      Vince: Yeah, but either way, in both versions, trust me on this, it played kinda rape-y, and it's....it's creepy. But it's meant to be, so.......

      August 17, 2012 at 12:10PM EST
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      Zoey I know i'm a little late to the game on this discussion, but I just wanted to add my two cents on the rape question. In losing what was left of his conscience and becoming Heisenberg for good, Walt no longer concerns himself with Skyler's thoughts and opinions, and she's too terrified to offer them. He takes what he wants. He "won," right? He moved back in without her consent, he bought the sports cars for him and Jr even though he knows she disapproves. He's the one in charge, the "one who knocks." As part of that, he thinks can have sex with her when he wants. He deludes himself into thinking she wants it too and that she's not terrified. I think part of him still wants to see himself as the good family man, but really he's using the same intimidation he did with Saul when he said that this was over when he says its over (sorry to butcher the quote, can't remember what he said specifically).

      Bottom line, my opinion is that it's rape by intimidation. May not be overtly violent, but he's clearly exploiting her fear, whether he'll recognize it or not.

      September 7, 2012 at 10:56AM EST
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    Brendan Noel

    Wow. Just wow. Great episode. This and last week's were definitely the best of the season. Also, this is what I get for only just now watching all of Friday Night Lights. RIP Spider Boy and Landry Joke, both gone too soon.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Brad

    Holy Crap. Todd is the one who knocks!

    August 12, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to Comment
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    gershomatl

    and yet again another episode where I'm left with my heart in my throat and all I can say is, "Holy crap."

    August 12, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Sharmayne Agreed. I felt as if this episode took some years off of my life. I know of no other series that pushes me to the limit of unbearable tension. The train scene was it; then before I could catch a breath I got sucker punched. I am drained.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:21PM EST
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      Jay That`s exactly the feeling I had, what both Sharmayne and Gershomatl described. This show gives me a physical reaction, like when I saw the end of Crawl Space I had shivers up my spine and do every time I see it. Amazing show, these writers know about suspense.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:02PM EST
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    ds

    This episode marks at least 3 references to Jesse James in the season so far. Mike said to Walt that killing Jesse James didn't make him Jesse James, and i'm sure that there was another reference last week (but I could stand corrected!) and now tonight's mention of JJ while Lydia was proposing the train heist.

    And did anyone catch else catch how willing Walt was to literally throw Jesse under the train? That was cutting it way too close, imho. Lots of evidence of Walt's death wish, his morbid fascination with cheating death, and now, a sadistic enjoyment of others' near-death experiences.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:16PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jane Walt is so despicable now. I am sick of his carelessness and always trying to push the limit at everyone else's expense. Gus was right when he told Walt he was careless. I know he's the main character, but the team would be better off without him at this point. Jesse can cook the meth just as well as Walt.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:43PM EST
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      Bob I was waiting for someone to mention Walt not stopping and putting Jesse in danger as the train came. In fact when I watched that scene I felt so tense and actually thought Jesse was going to die then as I saw the train come over him. The way I saw it Jesse had a WTF look just afterwards and I thought he was going to go mental at Walt for not stopping and almost killing him. Then he just celebrated with Walt and Todd. I don`t know if that was supposed to show Jesse`s undying loyalty to Walt even after a train runs over him or if Jesse didn`t really register what had happened from shock etc

      August 13, 2012 at 2:08PM EST
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      NolaCherie Ummmmm, yeah, the repeated mentions of Jesse James seem like serious foreshadowing to me.

      August 15, 2012 at 7:51PM EST
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      Tim Isola Hey Jane, Gus told Walt he was careless because he worked with Jesse. Just a little FYI, im getting a little tired of defending Walt here but he has been so loyal to jesse, had his back, and saved his life so many times at this point i cant even count all of them. There is alot of room to lay down under a train, Mike was screaming at walt to stop because he was worried about getting everyone busted, not cuz he was worried about jesse under the train. The Walt is a dispicable monster view is the view of a lazy casual viewer, maybe i have alot of time on my hands, or maybe i just make the time because i love the show so much and am so appreciative of it, but no true expert of this show could really think that about walt. And this has all happened in only a years time in show time.

      August 16, 2012 at 7:15AM EST
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      Bob Watching the first time all I focused on was Jesse under the train and from the suspense I was amazed he made it out alive. Watching the second time I saw there was more room under the train and also think Walt had to keep going to replace the full amount of methylamine with water to cover their tracks. And yes it looked like Mike wanted to stop because they were going to get busted once the good samaritan had finished helping.

      Walt is a complex character, not perfect but not all bad IMO, just like all the characters. They all act morally sometimes and other times break bad. Even Hank who usually acts morally has resorted to beating Jesse, though he did want to own up to the crime and take his punishment. I love how this show portrays many levels to a person`s personality and doesn`t really judge them.

      August 16, 2012 at 10:59AM EST
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      Jane Tim, I think people can have a difference of opinion about the show and its characters without being called lazy and casual viewers.

      If you're on Team Walt, good for you. Walt may have some genuine feelings for Jesse but most of what Walt does serves Walt and no one else. Even when he does something for Jesse there's usually something in it for him. He constantly uses and manipulates Jesse.

      For all the loyalty you think Walt has for Jesse, don't forget he poisoned and almost killed a little boy that Jesse cared deeply about, allowed Jesse's girlfriend to die when he could have tried to save her, allowed Jesse to feel guilty about the poisoning and his girlfriend's death, made Jesse kill Gale, and manipulated Jesse into breaking up with Andrea. Walt is responsible for all the emotional anguish Jesse has gone through in just one year. Jesse even told Walt his life has been sh!t since Walt got involved in it. If those actions aren't despicable in your book, whatever.

      August 16, 2012 at 4:44PM EST
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      Tim Isola You're right we do have very different opinions. I could rebuke every point you made but i dont have the time to.
      Tell me this though, how did Walt running over those 2 drug dealers and saving Jesse's life and putting himself on Gus' hit list in the process, serve himself? And right after that when Gus had both walt and jesse in the lab at his mercy, walt kept going on and on about how "if you kill jesse, you dont have me". Despite all that, Jesse was still so easily swayed over to Mike and Gus' side that Walt was FORCED to poison that child in order to get Jesse back on his side, where he should of always been, where he never should of left, he was forced to do that to save his entire family from Gus.

      He did not maninpulate Jesse into breaking up with Andrea. He spoke to him honestly and from the heart and told him that the business they have chosen, they have to be very careful with who they decide to share their lives with. Walt even came right out and said "i cant pretend this doesnt affect me", nothing underhanded or manipulative about it. He was giving him fatherly advice, which is something Jesse always craves.

      Jane....Jesse may of been in love with her, but she had him INJECTING Heroin and Crystal Meth at the same time. Jesse just started doing heroin, had no tolerance for it and she already had him shooting it up, mixed with MR.White's 99 percent pure crystal. That is about the most dangerous and toxic thing you can do to your heart. I am a reovering addict so trust me on that one. This was their current state, along with a bag full of almost half a million dollars. So instead of them both dying, which i can say with absolute certainty, they would have, Walt decided to let Jane go and save Jesse, because he loves him and she was toxic for him.

      Walt needed Jesse to return the favor 1 time and kill Gale to save Walts life. Yes, i get the weight of that on Jesse, I love Jesse, he is a good kid with a big heart. But he owed that to Walt. On top of what he just did for him by running over the 2 drug dealers, if youve got the time, go back to the beginning of the series and count how many times walt has saved jesse's life, just because he cares about him.

      Well i said i wasnt gonna respond to everything you said, but i guess i went an did it anyway. I just think Walt way too unfairly attacted around here just because he is arrogant and has an ego. To me overlooking every point i just made and calling him a monster because of that is lazy. Sorry, i didnt mean to offend you. You clearly think Walt is a monster and theres no changing your mind no matter how many rational arguments i present.

      August 17, 2012 at 9:49AM EST
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      NolaCherie Tim, even Vince Gilligan has said in numerous interviews that he and the shows writers are continually surprised at the sympathy for Walt. He is not meant to be a sympathetic character at this point. The fact that so many viewers are still rooting for Walt, and hating on the characters that have some kind of still-functioning moral code, is a very sad reflection on them, imho.
      And, seriously, you see Walt as being loyal to Jesse? He has manipulated him from the get go. Jane did a fine job of listing the many atrocities Walt has commited against Jesse. I hope I never have a "friend" like Walt.

      August 17, 2012 at 9:51AM EST
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      Tim Isola Yes ok i get it Walt is the bad guy, the protagonist, just like Vic Mackey, Shane Vendrell, Tony Soprano, Chris Moltisanti, BoyD Crowder, Avon, STringer Bell, etc. Yet i routed for all of them, except Tony and Vic's case where they disgusted me so much by the end that even i couldnt support them anymore. But i happen to find Walter White more fascinating, complex, and Brilliant than any of the characters listed and Cranstons performance is freaking electric. So i'm on his side till the end. I'm aware of Gilligans thoughts, dont care about em.

      And i'll assume u posted this before you read the long ass post i made right above your last reply because theres no way in hell im going to rehash every single one of those points again. The end.

      August 17, 2012 at 10:08AM EST
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      Tim Isola edit: walt is the ANTAGONIST....

      August 17, 2012 at 10:10AM EST
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      Jane Tim, I get that you have mad love for Walt but I don't get how you can turn a blind eye to his evil behavior.

      You really think Walt cares about Jesse? OK, let's go back to the beginning. Jesse did not want to make meth with Walt. Walt blackmailed him into it, remember? Walt said he call the police on Jesse and tell them he was Capt'n Cook (or whatever the name was Jesse used in the beginning). Jesse wouldn't even need his live to be saved by Walt, if Walt just left him alone in the first place. Walt forced him into the business against his will.

      When Gus asked Walt why he didn't want Jesse killed ( Gus called Jesse a worthless junkie), Walt replied "because he does what I tell him to do." So, there's your answer. Not because Jesse is his friend or he sees Jesse as a surrogate son. Rather, because he can control Jesse. Now, I do think Walt has some fond feelings for Jesse in his own distorted way. But, if it ever comes down to Walt and Jesse, Walt would throw Jesse under the bus and never look back.


      Jane was a recovering addict when she met Jesse. I know she had her faults but I remember her asking Jesse to go to a 12 step meeting with her. He choose to get high instead. Jane should have walked away but she choose to stay and ended getting high with Jesse. So, Jesse actually was the one who started Jane using again, but Jane made her own choice to use just like Jesse made his choice to try heroin. They were both equally guilty and both toxic for each other. No need to put all the blame on Jane for that.

      Walt was "forced" to poison an innocent child? Really? No one is ever forced to poison an innocent child regardless of the circumstances. Tim, I wonder about your moral code. Walt should have turned himself into the police and into protective custody instead. There is absolutely NO justification for poisoning a child. Ever.

      As someone else said: with friends like Walt who needs enemies?

      For the record, I love the job Bryan Cranston has done with the character. All of the actors have done an excellent job.

      August 17, 2012 at 10:37AM EST
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      NolaCherie @Tim, I viewed Walt killing the two drug dealers as a way of exercising control over the situation instead of allowing Gus to control the situation. Walt doesn't like Gus (or anyone else) telling him what to do (get rid of Jesse, for example), he wants to be calling the shots himself.

      And, c'mon, others have already commented on this, but your view that Walt was FORCED to poison the boy is just.....well, disturbing. That was a decision Walt made himself, to manipulate Jesse and to benefit himself. He is, at this point, entirely withour morals.

      Walt absolutely DID manipulated Jesse into breaking up with Andrea. Every word he said was designed to bring Jesse to end that relationship, while still letting Jesse feel that it was his own decision. I guess that was lost on you.

      Walt let Jane die because she was a threat to HIM, not because she was a threat to Jesse.

      One thing we can agree on, Bryan Cranston's portrayal of Walter White is electrifying and brilliant. But I suspect he would be disappointed that so much of his character's motivation was not comprehended by some audience members.

      August 17, 2012 at 1:22PM EST
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      NolaCherie I'm left wondering, what, if anything, will it take for you to change your view of Walter White? What could he do that you wouldn't be able to justify?

      August 17, 2012 at 1:25PM EST
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    BrettPoker

    This show is in serious contention of overthrowing The Wire as my favorite show. Not one disappointing season so far. It's already surpassed Mad Men, IMHO.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:18PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Justin V Mad Men doesn't belong in the same convo as BB or The Wire. Mad Men is voyeurism for fancy-pantses.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:36PM EST
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      BrettPoker ROFL. Are you serious?

      August 12, 2012 at 11:39PM EST
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      BUDDY GARRITY Yeah, both of the other two are great television shows but Mad Men might be the best of the troika at this point (no small achievement).

      August 13, 2012 at 2:35PM EST
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      NolaCherie Mad Men is a wonderful show, but nowhere in the same ballpark as The Wire.

      August 15, 2012 at 7:52PM EST
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      Guest I agree Brettpoker. I am a fan of Mad Men, the Wire and the Sopranos but none of those shows keeps me in suspense like BB. It`s going to be torture to wait for the last 8 episodes! Waiting for this part of season 5 and season 4 was awful.

      I like Mad Men but must say I think it is a bit overrated and the Wire is fantastic but very confusing at times - I haven`t yet watched season 5 and after plan to rewatch as apparently it gets better the second time once you know the characters and can follow the storyines more easily.

      August 16, 2012 at 11:06AM EST
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      NolaCherie Guest, read Alan's fantastic episode recaps to better understand The Wire. It's a challenging show, and that's really what I love about it.

      August 17, 2012 at 9:55AM EST
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      Guest @Nolacherie, thanks. I have read Alan`s excellent recaps of the Wire for all the episodes I have seen and have to say without them I probably woud have given up early on. So glad I didn`t as it`s fantastic. I am looking forward to rewatching it to better understand and take everything in. Cheers

      August 19, 2012 at 4:41AM EST
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    franetic

    As soon as Walt said Jesse's name in front of Todd, I thought for some reason it would be Todd who would had to be killed. Now Todd scares me way more than Mike.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:18PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Miles And Jesse called Walt "Mr. White" in front of Todd. I didn't like that carelessness, especially after Mike instructed the Vamanos Pest guys that their names are "Yes Sir" and "No Sir".

      August 13, 2012 at 12:29AM EST
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      eriklk Speaking of mentioning names in front of others, this entire scene seemed like the biggest nod imaginable to the famous scene in the beginning of Once Upon a Time in the West where (SPOILER-alert)
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      Frank kills the boy because his name is mentioned in front of him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN3-uOjK4TY

      To me it seems like such a clear reference that it couldn't be coincidental. I even think the kid here looks like the kid in the movie: they're both redheads and the kid in the movie carries a big glass bottle that looks a lot like the spider jar. Also, Once Upon a Time in the West is about the spread of the railroads to the West Coast, so that might be where they got the idea for the train heist.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:13AM EST
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      keith Miles, he probably thought they were doing a Reservoir Dogs thing. Do the kids today still have Reservoir Dogs?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:49AM EST
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      Guest I didn`t think anything of it when Walt called Jesse by his real name and vice versa, but yes that is really careless of them both!

      August 16, 2012 at 11:09AM EST
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    Sharmayne

    I found the train scene unbearable in its suspense. Yet I wasn't elated that the "project" was a success because of Walt's refusal to obey Mike's command to abort. Jesse could have well been killed and I felt real dislike for Walt. All of that was eclipsed by the murder of the poor Spider Boy. It was not necessary to kill the child, he would have been on his way. Wow! What an episode.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:18PM EST Reply to Comment
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      John I could be wrong, but it seemed that aborting when Mike said to abort would have screwed up their carefully-calculated math and would have tipped off the chemical company about the robbery. Mike's commands are not gospel. It was close, but I think Walt was right on that one. And I agree that there had to be another way to deal with the kid. The Heat reference was very interesting, as that also features a robbery that goes horribly wrong when one of the criminals rashly kills an innocent. I would put the over/under on Todd's life expectancy at one more episode. Take the under.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:38AM EST
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      Mike Yeah, I agree with John, they didn't have a flow-meter on the water, so there wasn't really a way to calculate how much less water they would have to put in. On the other hand, though, they clearly didn't finish transferring the water since the entire hose was still full and spilling everywhere... hopefully his "rounding up to the nearest 10" trick worked haha.

      August 13, 2012 at 5:37AM EST
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      eriklk It seems like Walt (or the writing staff) forgot to take the dead volume of methylamine in the hose into consideration. By the time there was a 1000 gallons in the tank they had removed more than that from the car, screwing up the math. Also, what was the point in letting the methylamine overflow? They should have calculated the dead volume in the hose and stopped when the amount taken from the car was 1000 gallons.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:22AM EST
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      ds Sharmayne - why let it overflow? Walt is greedy, plain and simple, and incautious, and willing to let Jesse get shredded by a train in his pursuit of money, power, and being the baddest big bad around.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:27AM EST
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      Mike Haha, ErikLK - believe me, I studied chemical engineering and calculations like this were pretty common, but you gotta understand in TV and film people need visual cues. I doubt the writers would want to spend precious time talking about how they have to calculate the extra volume in the hose. It's much more satisfying as a viewer to see the container full. I think if you took the volume of that long, thick hose into consideration, you probably wouldn't see liquid at the top of the container, leaving the viewer mildly confused and unsatisfied. Walt seems much greedier and more brazen when you actually see the container overflowing, and I'm definitely willing to sacrifice minor logic flaws for great character development.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:43AM EST
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      Dwayne Mendoza The only way to guarantee that the proper weight of methylamine has been replaced by the same weight in water is to have two tanks of the same size. When water is empty and the meth is full, you're there.

      As for the other thing, what Mike said about visual cues. The obvious example of science bowing to dramatic effectiveness is space ships that go "swoosh." There are many examples where the chemistry, physics or biology gets warped (people leaning out of cars) to make a good scene.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:06PM EST
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      Bob The train scene where Walt refuses to stop is a nice parallel to the season premiere when Walt pushes the lever on the magnet just a little bit longer. I wonder what Mike will have to say about Walt not stopping and putting Jesse in danger, not to mention Todd shooting the kid. Anyone else notice Jesse seemed terrified and panicked as the train was going over him as Walt wouldn`t stop and afterwards he looked shocked that Walt hadn`t stopped and was going to let the train go over him, but then he seemed to genuinely feel excited that they had pulled it off as soon as Walt started cheering. I wonder if Jesse will just let that slide as he is too loyal to Walt or if he will start realising what Walt is like especially if Mike gets in his ear. The boy getting shot will be the focus though.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:23PM EST
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    alynch

    Alan, the joke is still funny damnit! Take a few weeks to let it percolate before you do something rash. You wouldn't want to inadvertently kill the joke when you only mean to temporarily incapacitate it. To do so would be tragic.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:18PM EST Reply to Comment
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      ds It would be better, in light of this episode, to just not reference it. Period. Not say 'no more Landry jokes' not say, 'let's take a break'. Just, don't mention it. Methinks Alan protests too much on this...imho.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:30PM EST
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      adamjmil If Alan didn't mention it we'd have hundreds of comments here talking about that rather than the show.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:15AM EST
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      John Frankly, those jokes got old, a long, LONG time ago. Alan is a great writer, but he does tend to beat jokes into the ground on occasion. I'm glad Alan is retiring them, though I wish it didn't take something this horrific.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:40AM EST
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      keith I never saw Friday Night Lights so I have no problem with the joke. I hope the kid keeps killing and the joke lives on.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:51AM EST
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      Gazer I agree that the "12-state-killing-spree" jokes have been beaten to death, so to speak, and are boring and cliched at this point. Ditto for the ridiculous obsession with Walt Jr. and breakfast. Time to retire these worn-out memes.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:50PM EST
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      Matt '7' Saracen You never saw Friday Night Lights? I me-mean it was a really good show, you know. Ha-have you ever wondered why more teams don't run the-the ball with 16 seconds on the clock from 40 yards out and no t-timeouts left yet still end up win-winning? I mean, you should check it out.. '

      August 13, 2012 at 2:40PM EST
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      keith That has the hallmarks of a really funny reference. I wish I got it.

      August 13, 2012 at 3:00PM EST
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    headinbetweenjoansbreasts

    Breaking Bad, this show!

    Two comments, the whole Lyida character is tough for me to get into, she's way too much of a caricature, campy even for my tastes. I certainly see her and Jesse falling in love, has to be a reason why she's been introduced. Second the sexual tension between Walt and Skyler is palpable, curious to see whether they'll be exploring that going forward. Would fit greatly I think.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Modok Yeah, I have a hunch they're going for a Lydia-Jesse pairing. She's an attractive single mom, he conveniently broke up with Andrea at the season's start, and he's repeatedly tried to stop Mike from killing her.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:29PM EST
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      ds Eww. Jesse is way too young for her. Sexual tension between Walt and Skyler? I didn't see that at all..she can barely stand him, remember how she said she couldn't keep him out of her bed?

      If anyone gets involved with Lydia, it's Walt.

      August 12, 2012 at 11:32PM EST
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      headinbetweenjoansbreasts Sklyer's 'you agree to that and I'll whatever kind of partner you want me to be' and Walt's flirting tone to 'going to rob a train' led me to that conclusion. Remember. Skyler's far from Snow White in all this herself. Walt & Jesse had their misgivings and nerves when they began to break bad themselves

      August 13, 2012 at 12:19AM EST
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      Nick Lydia-Jesse seems unlikely but Jesse was with the older woman when he jumps out the window in the pilot episode. So it's not like it's out of charter.

      August 13, 2012 at 12:38AM EST
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      glurt @DS - you seem to have forgotten Jesse's interests: http://i.imgur.com/jQI01.png

      August 13, 2012 at 3:17AM EST
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      keith Aaron Paul is two years younger than Laura Fraser. So no eww. I don't see them together though, she's far too busy freaking out.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:07AM EST
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      Nick d I wouldn't say Lydia is too old for Jesse. The characters should have about 7 years between them. I don't really see them getting together, but surely Jesse finds her attractive. I know I do.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:57AM EST
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      Modok All good arguments to the contrary, but I subscribe to the theory of Chekhov's New Female Character.

      August 13, 2012 at 1:02PM EST
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      Tim Riggins I'd hit it. Shocker, I know.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:42PM EST
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      HEADINBETWEENJESSE'SSPEAKERS No, I don't see that at all. Either thing really but especially the Skyler-Walter tension. She's beyond repulsed by his very existence at this point it seems.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:44PM EST
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      NolaCherie "sexual tension between Walt and Skyler"

      Are you insane??

      August 15, 2012 at 7:56PM EST
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      headinbetweenjoansbreasts Not at all. I gave you my reasoning, you don't feel that's valid? Never heard of 'hate effing'? Happens all the time especially between people in long relationships.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:11PM EST
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      NolaCherie @HEADINBETWEENJOANSBREASTS, the only sex going on now is Walt asserting domination over Skylar. She has in no way been flirting with him, and if you see her as still being sexually interested in Walt in any way whatsoever, then I truly feel sorry for any girl/woman unfortunate enough to be in a relationship with you.

      August 17, 2012 at 12:21PM EST
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      headinbetweenjoansbreasts @Nola, first laugh out loud at any read about a fictional story somehow being indicative of how I treat women.

      Now to the matter at hand, people make all kinds of confusing choices sexually that go against their words or actions all the time. You can't always base your perception of films, television on what's always said, or as you put it 'flirting'. Often time there are little subtle gestures, camera movements, lighting etc. that lead you to read between the lines of what is said. In my view the set up to those scenes in addition to the line and other things I mentioned above led me to feeling a sexual tension. Remember, human beings often times, do not love, or even like the people they have sex with. Often times, as the saying goes, 'it just happened'. Or perhaps to your point, Walt's domination, manifests itself sexually for Skyler and as she had done with practically everything else up until making this stand about the children.

      You can disagree with that take, that's fine but, lets try and refrain from getting personal about it.

      August 18, 2012 at 4:23AM EST
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      headinbetweenjoansbreasts *and as she has done with practically everything else up until making this stand about the children, gives in or, to keep with your domination theme, submits.

      August 18, 2012 at 4:26AM EST
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    Dizz

    To put it simply, Wow!

    August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Jared

    Loved the whole train sequence and definitely didn't expect that ending. I also had a hard time figuring our if there was music during the train scene that was perfectly mixed with the rhythm of the train or if it was just overly embellished sound effects.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST Reply to Comment
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    velocityknown

    Oh, Todd. So much of Landry in you. If only Coach were here to set him straight.

    August 12, 2012 at 11:19PM EST Reply to Comment
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      velocityknown Although it looks like that might be Mike's job. My prediction is that Mike quits, Walt tries to semi-replace him with Todd. Someone who will do anything he asks (and/or implies).

      August 12, 2012 at 11:27PM EST
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      HEADINBETWEENJESSE'SSPEAKERS My prediction is that Lance becomes the K/P & Mike gets a job as security at the Landing Strip.

      Walt will try to get a job at East Dillon as an earth science teacher & Jesse will probably apply for an entry level position at either Gobias Industries or perhaps an intern spot at Kramerica. I'm open to just sitting back & seeing what unfolds naturally though.

      August 13, 2012 at 2:48PM EST
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