Mid-season premiere review: 'The Walking Dead' - 'The Suicide King': Brother against brother
The action slows down as the zombie drama returns from hiatus
Norman Reedus and Michael Rooker in "The Walking Dead."
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"The Walking Dead" is back from its mid-season hiatus, and I have a review of tonight's episode coming up just as soon as I'm the first brother in history that breaks into prison...
"And I'm telling you, you're wrong on this. You've got to start giving people a chance." -Hershel
When last we left our heroes and heroines, they were in one hell of a violent mess, as their raid on Woodbury hadn't gone exactly as planned, leaving the Dixon brothers to suffer the one-eyed wrath of the Governor. The cliffhanger suggested the non-stop tension of the fall episodes would continue when we returned, but instead, "The Suicide King" offered five or so minutes of action and then a whole lot of talking. (Plus the occasional walker attack, because, hey... check the title.)
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though the timing of it as the first new episode in months could have been better. (On our last podcast, Fienberg suggested that in hindsight, AMC might have been better off making "When the Dead Come Knocking" the mid-season finale so the series could return with the more action-packed "Made to Suffer.") Though season 2 ultimately leaned too much on characters discussing their feelings about this latest mess, some conversation was very much necessary at this point of season 3. The plot has been moving forward so relentlessly that the characters needed this opportunity to catch a breath, talk about where they stand, contemplate new information and new alliances, and prepare for what's next.
So we get Daryl choosing blood over friendship by going off with Merle, and we get Andrea and the Governor having a fairly frank discussion of what's been going on in Woodbury of late — a discussion the Governor can have now because Andrea has gotten sucked into this lifestyle enough that it's hard to fathom going off on her own. We get to hear more from and about Tyreese's group (including the two white guys whose names I imagine I'll master right before one or both are killed in the next few weeks) and have Hershel argue passionately and convincingly for an end to the Ricktatorship. It's gotten them very far, but they need more bodies (particularly with Daryl gone), and we know even better than Hershel that Tyreese would be a trustworthy ally (even if his redshirt sidekicks might not be).
This has been a tale of two dictators season so far, and even though we're rooting for Rick, "The Suicide King" works very hard to keep both men in parallel. The Governor retreats from his subjects in the wake of losing his eye, his hope of curing his daughter, and his aura of invincibility, and he's not entirely there mentally, at the moment. Rick stays alert and verbal longer, because he's out in the open and has to, but he shuts down upon returning to the prison, and his hallucinations of Lori return at a really inopportune moment. I think it's a situation they set up well in the pre-hiatus episodes, but I'm not sure I'm ready to watch Rick talking to thin air for many episodes on end, whether or not the Governor is about to make his move on the prison.
In all, solid, and necessary episode, but maybe not the ideal first hour back after months away.
Some other thoughts:
* Given her lover's adopted title, I liked that Andrea's monologue to the panicked Woodbury citizens played very much like a campaign speech. The Governor has all the guns on his side, but it would be interesting to see a storyline where the townspeople try to resurrect the democratic process and get to choose between the two potential leaders.
* It's the small touches that can sometimes pack the biggest punch, like seeing that the baby's bassinet is a mail carrier with LIL ASSKICKER stenciled on the side.
* Axel lamenting the death of Oscar was the first time all episode I remembered that Oscar was a character who was on this show.
* I did think the later walker attacks were well-timed, particularly the one that Glen winds up stomping out of frustration after all he and Maggie have been through. Now that the show is focusing on human-on-human conflict, the walkers still provide some suspense value when needed.
Once again, let me remind you again of this blog's No Spoiler rule and how it applies to this show, as I've had to delete a bunch of comments the last few weeks that violated it. Basic things to remember before commenting:
1. No talking about the previews for the next episode.
2. No talking about anything else you know about upcoming episodes from other sources — and, yes, that includes anything Mazzara and Kirkman have said in interviews.
3. No talking about anything that's happened in the comic that hasn't happened in the TV show yet. (Or anything that's been revealed, like character backstory and motivation.) As with "Game of Thrones," the goal is to treat "The Walking Dead" TV show as exactly that, and not as an excuse for endless comparisons with the comics. If you want to talk about the comics, feel free to start up a discussion thread on our message boards.
With that in mind, what did everybody else think?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 146 CommentsRileyJMU
February 10, 2013 at 11:25PM EST Reply to CommentIs it confirmed that Darryl is off the show for good?
Karlo
February 10, 2013 at 11:29PM ESTWhat? Of course not.
RileyJMU Sorry, I read Alan's comment about Darryl wrong. I just didn't know if this was his way of leaving the show. Great episode and great review.
February 10, 2013 at 11:33PM ESTElevation Are you insane?
February 11, 2013 at 2:02AM ESTkansasdan
February 10, 2013 at 11:26PM EST Reply to CommentComic Andrea is awesome, but TV Andrea... not so much! I really want to see TV Andrea die a horrible death and then have another character named Andrea show up who is the "real" Andrea from the comics. A lot of it has to do with the horrible casting, but her character makes THE worst decisions, and is SO dumb.
Patrick I haven't read the comics, but I agree 100% about TV Andrea. She is just terrible.
February 10, 2013 at 11:33PM ESTAll in all, I thought it was a decent start to the second half of the season. Sure, it was slow, but I think the writers had no choice but to hit the reset button to set some things up
Tyler Durden Agreed. Andrea is just a hole. she just latches on to the closest crazy with power. Shane, now the Gov. Comic Andrea is an entirely different character. its night and day. The Dixon brothers are an interesting situation to say the least.
February 11, 2013 at 11:07AM ESTGuest "the goal is to treat "The Walking Dead" TV show as exactly that, and not as an excuse for endless comparisons with the comics. If you want to talk about the comics, feel free to start up a discussion thread on our message boards.
February 11, 2013 at 2:21PM ESTRead more at http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/mid-season-premiere-review-the-walking-dead-the-suicide-king-brother-against-brother#ulMMmt31x9KXrVsv.99 "
sepinwall Okay, that's enough of that. Just deleted a comment. TALK ABOUT THE SHOW, NOT EACH OTHER.
February 11, 2013 at 8:58PM ESTkansasdan Guest, Thank you for your caring suggestion. I will certainly take that under advisement. (how's that Alan?)
February 12, 2013 at 10:45AM ESTMy point is that Andrea on the series would have been much better served if the writers had cosen to cast her and write her character as she appears ain the comics... a strong, capable woman who makes good decisions most of the time, instead of the really awful character we see on the series every week. Comic Andrea is one of my favorite characters, but TV Andrea cannot die soon enough.
Jonas.Left
February 10, 2013 at 11:28PM EST Reply to CommentWow. Great episode. This is the first time I've ever wondered if the hero of a show was crazier than the villain.
HISLOCAL I think it would have worked better if they juxtaposed it w/ scenes of the Governor becoming more likeable.
February 11, 2013 at 2:39PM ESTLazy Iggy
February 10, 2013 at 11:35PM EST Reply to CommentI was fine with al the talking - I was actually excited to hear what the characters had to say, especially the conversation between Carol and Beth.
I loved that she acknowledged the mental abuse she suffered by her husband and as a result, was not judgmental at all about Darryl's decision.
I am not down with ghost laurie in an ivory dress - especially if she will be a constant figure looking down at Rick. Jeez! Way to keep that stereotype "alive"!
And they still have Michonne scowling and not talking! C'mon! Hopefully, Hershel can get something out of her. Why should we root for her to stay? Why does she hate the gov so much? What happened with her and Andrea? Give me something!
I would have much preferred Rick start to break down because he hears the phone ringing a la The Master from Doctor Who.
All in all, happy the show is back
Stephen I agree. The conversation between Carol and Beth was one of my favorite moments of the episode, as well as how Carol dealt with learning about Daryl initially. The quieter moments in this episode were strong.
February 11, 2013 at 12:25AM ESTShane Leavitt And they still have Michonne scowling and not talking! C'mon!
February 11, 2013 at 1:27AM ESTAbsolutely, over and over again. Whatever the limitations (budget, material, etc.) are that make the writers have to write numerous characters as so clueless or incapable of communicating normally, is really a short coming of this show. Always has been. They are often never allowed to communicate basic information or felling's to each other because the show needs to make it be some off in the distance plot point or development. They really dumb down the product. Superior shows don't have to do this stunt.
Shane Leavitt "And they still have Michonne scowling and not talking! C'mon!"
February 11, 2013 at 1:30AM EST...was suppose to be in quotations from the earlier poster. Guess, I can't do italicized quote tags in here.
Dave Herschel suspected Michonne had a concussion. Maybe this contributed to her lack of conversation? I certainly hope so, because her use of the silent treatment is getting old fast.
February 11, 2013 at 1:47AM ESTElevation Has she had a concussion all season? She's never answered any of their simple questions.
February 11, 2013 at 2:09AM ESTShane Leavitt @ Dave
February 11, 2013 at 2:11AM ESTUnfortunately not. This is consistently how she's been written for nine episodes now. (I have not read the comics) It must be 99% guaranteed at some point, Mazzara eventually writes Michonne differently, and her character actually evolves to talk, share, and become part of whatever's left of the group at that time. It's probably 1-2 episodes away. This Rick-drives-everyone-away meme/storyline has stretched as far as they'll surely take it, if they're smart. It's tired and not terribly believable. They've written Rick to be a leader who is a basket case, and incapable of being pragmatic to any degree. This isn't NBC where they have to knock-off 24 episodes a season. Evolve already.
Froide If TWD's going to continue to use visual "hauntings", then the filmmakers should take steps not to confuse the viewers. Aside from having long, dark hair, the ghost didn't resemble Sarah Wayne Callies; when we first saw the ghost, we in my house wondered: "Who is that? Is she supposed to be Lori?"
February 11, 2013 at 2:50AM ESTThe ghost's hair is thicker and wavier than SWC's, and her face - which doesn't resemble SWC's - should have been obscured, at least in this ep. So I'm unsure why TWD's team didn't at least obscure the face in order to minimize the differences btw the two actresses and imprint ghost-Lori on viewers. Then, in later episodes, viewers would have been able to recognize her immediatley.
Gajic @Froide - Sarah Wayne Callies name was in the opening credits tonight. I think that was really her.
February 11, 2013 at 3:37AM ESTShane Leavitt @ GAJIC
February 11, 2013 at 4:11AM ESTYes, i'd noticed that too and then forgot about it during the episode. I assume they went with the obscured Lori photog to make it more ghostly like. They're stepping up the imagery production to be more convincing of Rick losing his mind since the phone calls and seeing Shane briefly walking towards him in Ep. 8.
Froide @ Gajic @Froide - Sarah Wayne Callies name was in the opening credits tonight. I think that was really her.
February 11, 2013 at 4:54AM ESTWowza! Thanks for pointing that out. I guess on "TWD", as on "Survivor", whatta difference some food and a makeover makes. LOL
SlackerInc I agree with Lazy and Shane. Michonne's schtick got old a looong time ago, and i had hoped that the previous episode with the phantom phone calls was going to be the entirety of Rick's hallucinatory storyline, which I find irritatingly boring.
February 11, 2013 at 5:00AM ESTI also continue to lament the way that Maggie is being treated as having been tainted somehow by her sexual abuse at the hands of the Governor. I know that our culture has not necessarily become more enlightened than this, but it would still be nice to portray a more enlightened reaction on the show.
bbq_hax0r Did anyone else lose track of Michonne? They say something about "stitching her up and she's on her way" whilst on the side of the road then we don't see or hear about her until the very end when she's concussed. Oi!
February 11, 2013 at 1:30PM ESTHISLOCAL I've said all season that watching Michonne is like watching Spiderman swing around and be badass, but never getting to meet Peter Parker. The "silent badass" thing only goes so far before we need to meet the real person underneath.
February 11, 2013 at 2:45PM ESTThe real problem is, last night was about the 10th time that someone just pointed a gun at her and took her sword away. So the "silent badass" is really just "silent shitty character".
She's the worst.
Froide @BBQ: Watched the rerun last night. When Rick's group returned to the prison, Michonne rode in the car w/ Maggie and Glenn to "the big house" after deposting the Ricktator at the gate. Then Michonne was locked into an individual cell, where as Hershel noted, she conked out completely, dead to the world (pun intended).
February 16, 2013 at 9:05AM ESTsrpad
February 10, 2013 at 11:40PM EST Reply to CommentFWIW Carl also asked about Oscar when the group first arrived back.
Froide I liked that. And Axel lamented Oscar's loss and related how Oscar protected him when Tomas would "go off" [in a psychopathic rage]. Hopefully, Maggie will tell the others Oscar's last act was helping her over the bus-barricade leading out of Woodbury.
February 16, 2013 at 11:23AM ESTI also hope all the black male characters with speaking parts who die won't do so while helping white women.
Jonas.Left
February 11, 2013 at 12:09AM EST Reply to CommentBy the way, I noticed that for the first time The Walking Dead is rated TV-MA. I've never understood how such a gruesomely graphically violent show was rated TV-14. Does anybody know why they changed it, because tonight's episode was pretty average in the gore department?
It was the horror of Andrea's speech at Woodbury. You had to watch that one at your own risk.
February 11, 2013 at 8:59AM ESTBgklein Last night was the first time I noticed it as well.
February 11, 2013 at 1:33PM ESTHISLOCAL There must have been a booby.
February 11, 2013 at 2:46PM ESTllyule It think I heard the word "shit", which is of course way worse than seeing someone's head hacked off.
February 11, 2013 at 3:26PM ESTAndrew McG
February 11, 2013 at 1:10AM EST Reply to CommentWhy did the bros fight at all if they were going to obviously show that they were choosing not to fight each other? Pointless. And it was a lame let down. They could have at least use the rouge of fighting to get at the Governor. Why does Rick say he does not trust Michonne and doesn't want her to stay with group when he Entrusted her to take care of Glen when they went back into Woodbury? Leaving a beat up key member alone with some you don't trust? Why does it take Andrea a day to ask the Governor about Darryl? Or the group that was attacking Woodbury being her people? Why did Andrea struggle with shooting the bitten Woodbury guy when she has seen it done and done it herself several times in the past, including her own sister? Odd to suddenly have a moral dilemma over it. Why is Andrea, who is supposed to be lawyer/professor, so taken in by the Governor when he obviously is devious? Heads in Jars for Crapsake! Why is Rick's first reaction to seeing his wife not joy? or surprise? Instead he is just angry? And this might be controversial but, I realize that Maggie was violated. She was humiliated. She was a victim of the Governor. She was all those things. But she was not raped. Unless you take it as emotional rape. However, the show seemed to have the characters act like the heinous crime had actually happened. It seemed bit over the top. Finally, what's with the bad acting Lady townie all of a sudden having lines. It reminds me of Nickii and Paulo on Lost and anyone who followed that show knows how that turned out.
Why didn't Michonne just say I went after the Governor?
And another, why would Tyrese stay in a group with these guys who want to take out what they believe to be a defenseless kid and woman? And the Kid that saved there butts to begin with.
Alanrocks This episode was a huge letdown after the first half of the season did a positive 180 from last year. Bad dialogue. Letdown with the confrontation and decision by Daryl happening in a deserted road before they even got clear, and it took a minute when they built up to it for half a season. Weirdo Carol and no one else getting that even if he is a douche Merle is his brother. Yet no one questions (or even knows) that Rick wouldnt let Merle in or even put it to a group vote? And the capper, Sybil, I mean Rick, wigging out at the last second and seeing his ex ghost right then? And I hate Lori but that double looked nothing like her. and so on...
February 11, 2013 at 1:27AM ESTZippo
February 11, 2013 at 1:32AM ESTMany of your nitpicking questions here are ludicrous. You're just determined to dislike this show, eh?
First of all, your most absurd question: Rick's reaction to Laurie...um...he is aware that Laurie is DEAD so why would he be anything other than freaked out by her creepy apparition? Seriously?
Also, Andrea never shot a wounded living person before. Her sister was already dead, she didn't shoot her until she woke up as a walker. She witnessed Dale shot, but she wasn't the one who did it.
Rick doesn't trust Michonne because he has no reason to trust her, and he left her with Glen because nobody else could have done it.
She is taken in by the Governor because he has established the most secure and peaceful community she has seen since the apocalypse, and she had also developed romantic feelings for him beforehand. That doesn't vanish.
Tyrese is staying with these people because he's been with them for a year or so and has no doubt bonded with them just as characters from the main group have bonded.
Daryl and Merle fought each other, at first, to buy time. It worked.
Andrew McG Zippo, on the contrary, I am a huge fan. Just not of this episode.
February 11, 2013 at 1:49AM ESTHe didn't freak out when he was talking to his dead wife on the phone. Why now? It was over the top. Plus it really wasn't creepy. She was wearing a white robe.
I can see your point on the shooting bit, but after all they have been through. She didn't know the guy, it seemed old hat.
Why couldn't Maggie have stayed? She is good with a gun. Michonne would have known where to go a hell of a lot better and Rick could keep an eye on her.
The being taken in with Woodbury is one thing, but a whole lot has just happened to not have her walk away from the Governor. The writing is weak on this end.
The question is why would Tyrese be with these people of such low character for a year!!!!? I understand survival, but he should be smarter then to hang out with these losers.
To buy time for what? They fought 5 seconds. And they didn't know they were going to be rescued. All they bought was time for the zombies to be brought out.
These are nitpicking questions. They are honest inquiries as to how a show I admire greatly can turn out such a sub par episode.
Darkdoug Presumably Meryl knew that once he and Daryl started fighting, the zombies would be brought in and it would be treated more like a cage match and they'd get some breathing room. Until he swung at Daryl, the Governor & co were ready for them to try something. They let their guard down a bit once Meryl demonstrated a willingness to play their game, so presumably he thought they could get out of it, either by taking advantage of the zombies as a distraction, or by putting on a good show & winning over the crowd.
February 11, 2013 at 2:04AM ESTHe had no choice but to trust Michonne, because Glenn was not in fighting shape, and he had to count on her self-preservation instincts to keep the two of them alive. As far as not trusting her, he was referring to her long-term prospects, because she went off on her own when they were trying to rescue Glenn & Maggie. Remember, the group has been acting like a well-drilled unit since the interim between seasons. From Rick's leadership PoV, there is no place for a wild card who will go off and do her own thing when they are counting on her to guard a particular flank.
Andrea waited to ask the governor, because he was avoiding everyone and she had no opportunities to ask him before that, and she never saw anyone during the fight but he brothers. Her conversation with the Gov suggests she was hesitant to do it in front of the relatively soft townsfolk, and no, she has not been mercy-killing people before they turned. They left Jim alone, she waited for her sister to turn before shooting her, and aside from that, the group has only killed zombies, not euthanized the wounded.
Lawyers might just admire deviousness. However, I think you were looking for the word duplicitous, and she only learned how duplicitous he is recently, and has been acting disappointed, so I don't get where you are coming from with that. Heads in jars might seem insane out of context, but she also knows that Woodbury has been experimenting with the dead, and participated in one such experiment herself.
Why should Rick be happy that he is hallucinating? He knows Laurie is dead, so seeing her like that can only mean something is very, very wrong. He has no reason to feel joy.
Does Glenn know she was not actually raped? If she told him, would he believe her, or think she is trying to spare his concern? Maggie is upset because of her ordeal, and no one else is reacting to what she went through. Herschel might suspect something from the way she and Glenn are behaving, but no one is over-reacting to her experiences, aside from possibly Glenn, who was violated and traumatized himself. Even if he knows the limit of what was actually done to Maggie, his fury over her condition might actually be a mechanism for dealing with his own frustration and helplessness. People don't just bounce back from being tortured.
Someone has to speak in order for the town's leadership to know that the civilians are disgruntled. Karen had all the lines, because the pay of the extras jumps up if they have lines, so it is better to have one person say all the lines on behalf of the crowd. It is not remotely close to the Nikki & Paulo level of retconning.
Michonne is probably not accustomed to answering to others, and she has her own reasons to be suspicious and pissed at the Ricktatorship. Rick would still be mad that she went off on her own, so telling him that would not have solved anything.
They were offering suggestions, and appear to be listening to his rebuttals. As for the horror of the idea that his companions would suggest such a thing, you have clearly not been paying attention to this show. That is the single most important theme of the show - the degeneration of people into hardened or savage barbarians by the loss of civilization. They probably would NOT have contemplated such an act two years ago, but their experiences and losses have made them more desperate. The prison is a prime location and one of the safest places you could think of. Their argument with Rick when he returns should have clearly illustrated how very dangerous the outside world is, and how much they want to stay. Tyrese's companions were thinking that rather than wait on the mercy of the group when the able-bodied fighters return, maybe it would be better to ensure they get to stay by taking over the prison while it is vulnerable. If the choice is between killing a kid and a woman or getting tossed out into the wilderness to die, the majority of people would probably do what they had to. At the end of the episode, it appears that Tyrese was wrong and his companions were right, since they seem to have been ejected by a madman.
Froide RE: "Why did Andrea struggle with shooting the bitten Woodbury guy ... Odd to suddenly have a moral dilemma over it."
February 11, 2013 at 4:48AM ESTRESPONSE: To add to others' responses...Andrea knows appearances are important. Woodbury's civilians may not realize that people bitten by walkers will die and reanimate as walkers and can't be cured. [Remember Milton's disappointment when his Michael Coleman experiment failed, and the Gov's hopes for his deteriorating walker-daughter?] Even if Woodbury's civilians knew this intellectually, they were not ready to see the cold, harsh reality in action. The Governor should never have shot the guy in the head in from of people without explaining why. (And even then, some townspeople might need to see someone reanimate before they’ll believe it happens.)
RE: “Why is Rick's first reaction to seeing his wife not joy? or surprise? Instead he is just angry?”
RESPONSE: Why would Rick be happy to see that his aural delusions have progressed to visual hauntings, and by yet another person he's been unable to trust fully or protect, no less? Moreover, I'm wondering whether Beth's kissing Rick on the cheek upon his return, combined with her holding his baby, might have given him ideas of replacing Lori. If so, guilt about trying to move on may have helped summon Lori's spectre.
RE: “And this might be controversial but, I realize that Maggie was violated. She was humiliated. She was a victim of the Governor. She was all those things. But she was not raped. Unless you take it as emotional rape. However, the show seemed to have the characters act like the heinous crime had actually happened. It seemed bit over the top.”
RESPONSE: (1) Glen may not believe Maggie wasn't raped, regardless of what she TOLD Glen, and (2) even if she weren't raped, there wasn't a darn thing Glen could have done if the Governor had decided to make good on his rape threat.
Thusly, the Governor deftly undermined Glen, perhaps even more than Maggie (who may have been made stronger), by threatening to rape her, and he underscored his power to humiliate and control both of them by not permitting Maggie to put her shirt back on before reuniting her with Glen. The Governor's treatment of Maggie may have pushed Glen toward the Tony Soprano (or Shane Walsh) end of the spectrum. [Watchers of THE SOPRANOS will remember how Dr. Melfi's husband and son reacted when Melfi was raped. Despite the threesome’s inclinations and revenge fantasies, all were too civilized and law-abiding to take action outside of the legal system. Of those close to Melfi, only Tony Soprano was equipped with the moral code necessary to effectively retaliate against the rapist. ]
RE: ”Why didn't Michonne just say I went after the Governor?”
RESPONSE: Michonne has always been portrayed as having a problem communicating (and trusting) even those close to her - i.e., Andrea. But in Rick's case, she was understandably wary that Rick's group let Merle accompany them back to the car and was arguing about how to handle Merle (rather than killing or banishing him on site); no doubt, she was wondering WTF!
RE: "And another, why would Tyrese stay in a group with these guys who want to take out what they believe to be a defenseless kid and woman? And the Kid that saved there butts to begin with"
RESPONSE: Tyreese's approach with Allen/Ben is somewhat analogous Rick's approach with the post-apocalyptic Shane. They've survived together and built a relationship based on mutual dependency, and Tyreese doesn't believe those guys are evil, just misguided. While Tyreese and Sasha will undoubtedly keep a wary eye on Allen/Ben, they’d also be fools to betray them before getting a sense of Rick's road-trip group, or before knowing whether or not Rick’s group will try to banish the lot of them from the prison (in which case Tyreese/Sasha may have to continue collaborating with Allen/Ben to survive). After Rick’s meltdown, and given the need to deal with Michonne and the Governor’s superior numbers, even Rick’s group may eventually come to look toward Tyreese for stable, mature input.
Jonas.Left ZIPPO & DARKDOUG Nice to see some people can appreciate the emotional context of character's decisions on this show. So many of the comments seem to assume that people on the show shoud behave like omniscient Vulcans, all knowing and utterly logical. It would be nice for our heroes if they always did the most sensible thing in any given situation, but it would make for damned boring drama and it wouldnt be believable either.
February 11, 2013 at 5:03AM ESTANDREW MCG "Why couldn't Maggie stay? She is good with a gun." That's why she couldn't stay. They needed her to use a gun during their armed assault of a larger better armed group of killers. Leaving behind an able-bodied fighter behind to hide wasn't an option.
"To buy time for what?" How about anything? If you're on the verge of being executed you do what you can to stay alive as long as you can. Its not a situation where you start making well thought out plans, you make it up as you go along and hope it works out.
"...he should be smarter than to hang out with these losers." Those two just lost their wife and mother. The group as a whole has been through hell and one presumes they are not in the best state of mind. Just like Rick's group was when they gor to Hershel's farm. It doesnt seem likely that those "losers" were like this the whole time Tyreese was with them.
SlackerInc Andrew, I agree with all of the implied criticisms in your questions. I would take one of them further, though, and bemoan the idea that even if Maggie were raped, it has to be treated as the end of the world, worse than being terribly wounded like Glenn was, or even worse than characters losing their hands or legs or whatever. This is the 21st century for chrissakes! Can't get over all this patriarchal obsession with women's purity?
February 11, 2013 at 5:22AM ESTALANROCKS, a group vote? Fine, but if Merle would have gotten a single vote other than his brother's, I would have been really done with this show. No way in hell should Merle be allowed to join them at the prison.
The hallucinations of Lori are really stupid, boring, and annoying.
"Daryl and Merle fought each other, at first, to buy time. It worked."
Only because Rick's gang started shooting. Andrew is right: it was really stupid, at least the way they portrayed it. I was initially going with it, thinking Merle would grab someone's gun when they weren't expecting it, then take the governor hostage, or something like that. But to needlessly start kicking the shit out of Darrell, then just get back to back with him to make it obvious they were together, makes no sense except to play a switcheroo on the audience.
If this show had established a modus operandi of being cleverly, winkingly meta, maybe that would work. Instead, it just showed sloppiness by the writers. I get so sick of that, not only on this show but others like Lost: "let's do this because it will surprise everyone, make them think one thing is going to happen and then pull the rug out from under them." Never mind whether it makes any narrative sense in any semi-realistic way.
Jonas.Left SLACKERINC Rape is worse than being injured. I know someone who was violated sexually and the impact on her was a lot more than physcal. Rape does not ruin a woman and it doesn't have to ruin her life, but it is not a bruise that fades away. Its an experience that informs the rest of her life. It truly pained me to know what she went through and that I waa powerless to change it. You really need to reconsider your opinion. It is still appropriate, even in the 21st century to be appalled at a woman or anyone being violated body and soul. And if that person is someone you care about you won't just be appalled, you'll be shattered.
February 11, 2013 at 5:52AM ESTSlackerInc Jonas, that is quite the unwarranted leap, to assume no one in I care about has been raped or sexually assaulted. I stand by what I said.
February 11, 2013 at 10:06AM ESTPrintin' Mike The Meryl and Daryl fight: Meryl pretends to fight Daryl to buy time. Buy time for what? Again – they have no idea that the city is about to be attacked by Rick’s group (and, the attack is what saved them – and that would have happened regardless). He’s buying time for the zombies to be brought out? Why? How are chained zombies going to help them escape? Dumb plot device by the writers to buy time for the attack to occur.
February 11, 2013 at 12:33PM ESTRick’s reaction to Lori: irrational anger at the appearance of a ghost is to be expected. What??? Why? How? Did Rick ingest some bad mushrooms? No. It’s merely a dumb plot device to (temporarily) prevent Rick from allowing Tyrese and his group to stay in the prison.
Andrea: not all attorneys are intelligent. In fact, some are quite stupid. Andrea clearly falls into this category. Why did she not shoot the mortally wounded and zombie-bitten resident? Dumb plot device to get the Governor to come out of his room and shoot him in front of everyone. No other reason.
Tyrese staying with the 2 bad guys. Because he’s been with them for a long time? No, if he’d been with them for a long time, then he would have noticed how stupid and bad they are, and wouldn’t have been with them for a long time. They didn’t just suddenly turn into dumb assholes after arriving at the prison. Dumb plot device to create conflict.
Michonne. Why is she still mute? I’m sure at some point we’ll have a “very special episode” about muteness and it’s causation. In the meantime, Michonne’s scowling presence serves as well needed comic relief.
Most of these plot devices can be made a lot less dumb with a few well-written lines of dialog preceding them. But, alas, well-written lines of dialog ain’t exactly TWD’s strong suit. (TWD could also solve the problem by simply not having dumb plot devices – but, that would probably be asking too much of a show about zombies.)
Jonas.Left SLACKERINC I make no assumptions about you. Your name doesn't even have a suggestion of your gender. I did not comment on you as an individual at all. I responded to an idea you had posted twice in this forum, because I think its misguided. Certainly, the notion of a woman's purity being tainted is never raised in the show we watched. For whatever reason, that was your interpretation of the scenes dealing with Maggie.
February 11, 2013 at 4:46PM ESTSlackerInc Is it stated explicitly, literally? No. But it is there, in my opinion, very clearly, just the same. Even more evident in the previous episode when Maggie and Glenn are sitting together and she insists, swears to him (ugh) that she wasn't raped. Now it seems he doesn't believe that and doesn't want to be near her.
February 11, 2013 at 5:05PM ESTJonas.Left Glenn's alienation and anger is born of his feeing powerless during their captivity. He blames himself for her suffering and his shame prevents him from seeking comfort in her arms.
February 11, 2013 at 5:59PM ESTFuzzy Dunlop tl;dr
February 11, 2013 at 7:40PM ESTJonas.Left Well said, FUZZY.
February 11, 2013 at 7:43PM ESTJonas.Left Just found out what "tl:dr" means. I take back my previous post. I had assumed FUZZY had posted gibberish.
February 12, 2013 at 2:43AM ESTvelocityknown
February 11, 2013 at 1:23AM EST Reply to CommentI just dislike Michonne so much at this pont. She just comes across as needlessly quiet for the sake of plot or just for being difficult, the show has really fumbled her character.
At least, though, she's not as bad as Andrea. My god. She's been in the town, what? Two weeks and she's the person the town can rally around? No one in the crowd is asking: Who is this woman and why does she think she knows anything about our home and what we've been through?
I'm happy to see the show focus on human-on-human conflict, I just wish it did so in a better way. It feels like Walking Dead actors/writers/directors (not sure where the blame lies) think loud yelling and forceful body movements=great drama. Glenn's overreaction (seemingly, for the sake of, "Hey, we need something to fill time here) totally took me out of the moment. As did Andrea's conversation with The Governor, but to be fair, I liked David Morrissey quite a bit in that scene. He seems to realize that you can be dramatic and compelling without yelling or talking in a really forceful manner.
Good to be back, I guess?
Alanrocks Thanks Zippo. its almost like youre on the writing staff with that childish anger for someone criticizing an episode of a show they love. I thought it was poorly written with a lot of awful moment and that it was maybe a c especially compared to the first half, which was fantastic. Lighten up, pull your lips off the tv, and learn to allow others to have opinions.
February 11, 2013 at 1:37AM ESTvelocityknown I don't think I ever criticized anyone's opinion. As far as I know, I only expressed my own. If I did ever criticize or put down the way someone feels about the show other than (i.e. "You're dumb for thinking 'a' or 'b'!"), please, point that part out to me and I'll apologize.
February 11, 2013 at 10:23AM ESTAlso, if you'll notice, I'm hardly the only one here complaining about this episode.
bbq_hax0r Your opinion offended me and disagreed with mine therefore you criticized and devalued my opinions. But I agree with about Michonne, she's such a poor character at this point. She's so poorly written she makes the governor sympathetic. I don't know how they can redeem her, and I fear we're stuck with her.
February 11, 2013 at 2:06PM ESTGood to be back, I guess haha. I don't know why I stay. The show has potential, but no incentive to put in the work to reach it.
Jonas.Left VELOCITYKNOWN I believe ALANROCKS was complaining about ZIPPO.
February 11, 2013 at 5:20PM ESTI appreciate differing opinions, as long as they're constructive and not based on ignorance of the subject matter. No reasonable person would be offended by your comments.
That said, Andrea was not just a newcomer, she was someone the townspeople had seen at The Governor's side at public events. Some of his position had therefore rubbed off on her. Also weak people in a panic gravitate towards confidence and strength. That's the entire basis for The Governor's reign, so it makes sense that Andrea could have the same effect.
In the day or so he was kept prisoner, Glen was pushed further than any character on the show, besides Rick. Beaten, nearly eaten alive (surviving only because he called forth a reserve of savage strength he didn't know he had), and the violation of the woman he loves. All these left him with an emotional overload and when you're angry, ashamed, relieved, scared - all at the same time - your not going to be perfectly rational and reasonable. I think some viewers of this show make the mistake of considering words and deeds in an extreme situation as being uncharacteristic, when they are in reality the characteristic way people react to extreme situations. They also don't account for how experiences change people. The Glenn we met in season one wouldn't have been capable of many of tthe things he's done this season.
Eric I think ALANROCKS was replying to ZIPPO in the above post. I don't think you're being offensive in the least.
February 11, 2013 at 5:23PM ESTvelocityknown Ah I see, the clears things up. I thought Zippo was a weird nickname to apply to someone.
February 11, 2013 at 8:37PM EST@Jonas
I see that maybe in a time sense, Andrea isn't that new to Woodbury, but consider this: When you were in school, and a new kid showed up, that kid was the "new kid" until like 2 "new kids" later. Andrea is the most recent person to show up in Woodbury, I have to feel like if I lived there I'd feel like she had no place lecturing me. It may be an irrational feeling to have but I think it's certainly one the show missed out on.
About Glen, don't get me wrong, I think that his reason for being angry is perfectly fine. I'm just not a fan of how it was delivered. When you have those characters yelling like that that often and that early on in an episode, you really have no where to go. You've gone as high as you can and they haven't even really built up to it. I think I would've liked it much more as a slow build: Glen stomps the head of the zombie, is quiet and passive aggressive towards Rick, shows other signs of PTSD, and then blows up. That would be great and I think I'd really enjoy it. I just think they rushed what they wanted to do with that. Because now all they can really do is come down from it.
Jonas.Left VELOCITYKNOWN Regarding Glen, they could have done a slow build and it probably would have worked. The problem is this show has a lot of impatient viewers itching to complain that the show is too slow. This episode was jam-packed with action and great character moments, but so many people are complaining that the non-shooting non-zombie stuff was boring. It reminds me of one of the Sopranos seasons that focused on the familial relationships to great effect, but a big portion of the audience just complained that there weren't enough whackings.
February 11, 2013 at 8:54PM ESTElevation
February 11, 2013 at 2:06AM EST Reply to CommentDoes Michonne have some sort of brain injury? Why is she incapable of answering the simplest questions?
I like Tyreese. The show could use a rational character like him.
Froide I like Tyreese, too. I hope he isn't wearing a red shirt!
February 11, 2013 at 4:51AM EST
Here's my theory. "Walking Dead" is an elaborate prequel to the original "Planet of the Apes." Michonne is the one human who survives the zombie apocalypse. She goes on to breed the race of silent humans that are on earth when Captain George Taylor lands on the planet in 3978 AD, discovering that man was all but wiped out and that Apes now control the world.
February 11, 2013 at 9:05AM ESTDoctor Zaius knew that man had destroyed himself, but he didn't have details. We assumed it was nuclear weapons, but it was really the plague.
OR, maybe the last surviving humans nuked the earth to wipe out the zombies?!?! OOOOOOOH!!!!
Jonas.Left JESS Your theory ignores the obvious. The Rand Corporation, the reverse vampires, and the saucer people are behind it all.
February 12, 2013 at 12:45AM ESTKyle7
February 11, 2013 at 2:15AM EST Reply to CommentIt looks like some of your final thoughts were
Kyle7
February 11, 2013 at 2:18AM EST Reply to CommentIt looks like some of your final thoughts were cut off:
"* I did think the later walker attacks were well-timed, particularly the one that Glen winds up stomping out of frustration after all he and Maggie have been through. Now that the show is focusing on human-on-human conflict,"
I'm guessing that doesn't actually end on a non-sentence and a comma.
Ben Kabak Grammar nazis... The worst.
February 14, 2013 at 3:11PM ESTponce
February 11, 2013 at 2:40AM EST Reply to CommentGah.
More cheap sets and recycled plots.
Wgat a letdown.
mgrabois
February 11, 2013 at 3:10AM EST Reply to CommentThe two other guys with Tyrese are Allen and Ben, who were early members of Rick's gang in the comics (just like Tyrese was). But that doesn't mean much when we've seen TV character deaths that don't correspond with their comics counterpart's fates. And Darryl and Merle aren't in the comics, so who knows how that's going to affect the end of the prison saga.
Froide I don't read the comics, but the comic-readers' descriptions of how characters' roles differ between the comic books and TV shows reminds me of the switcheroos Stephen King made in his pair of parallel "universe" books: DESPERATION (2006) by Richard Bachman and THE REGULATORS (2006) by Stephen King.
February 11, 2013 at 5:02AM ESTJonas.Left I loved those books. I also loved Stephen King's descriptions of them, that The Regulators was about television and that Desperation was about god, making each of them about a higher power.
February 11, 2013 at 6:31AM ESTDan
February 11, 2013 at 3:39AM EST Reply to CommentI didn't like Andrea's speech, or the crowd reaction to it at all. The whole situation reminded me of the scene in Blazing Saddles where Bart is able to talk the hostile townspeople down by holding himself hostage ("Oh baby, you are so talented--and they are so dumb").
But all in all it was a solid return. I'm really interested to see how and if Daryl comes back and how and if Tyrese is able to join Rick.
LauraK Another plot point I found hard to believe. Everyone in the town wants to bail because a couple of walkers got in? They all just want to run off on their own, rather than patch the fences? Ludicrous reaction. Really.
February 11, 2013 at 10:19PM ESTtownandcountry
February 11, 2013 at 5:05AM EST Reply to CommentRe Andrea - in staying on with the Govenor, she is just following her old habits. She's using him or sex, power, safety and whatever else she can get just like she used Shane back when he was in a position to provide her with what she wanted. Both Andrea and Micchone could be kick-ass female characters who exhibit strength and wisdom...but instead they are both reduced to awful stereoytypes: the sullen, silent loner too stubborn to use her smarts even to save herself, and the man-eating bitch too manipulative and drama-hungry to use any of her smarts. As weird as Carol is, she has shown some surprising growth and (as unlikely as it once seemed) she has become a deeper, more complex character than either Andrea or Macchone.
This episode was not the best I've seen, but I agree it was a necessary segue. However, I will not be satisfied with this second half-season until Daryl rips Merles's other arm off and leaves him for the zombies again.
Jonas.Left When Andrea first connected with Shane, she was still regretting that she hadn't killed herself and she was not the warrior she is now. Shane was at that point still a trusted member of the group. They bonded during her training. Its not fair to suggest she was using him. Lori, maybe, but not Andrea. As far as The Governor, she is clearly not under his spell any longer. She defied him, challenged him, criticized him all through the episode. And her speech to the townspeople seemed to demonstrafe her using her mind to me.
February 11, 2013 at 5:25AM ESTtownandcountry Thank you for responding to my comment. I completely respect your opinion but I still feel that Andrea is stereotypical and manipulative - look how fast she ditched Macchone when she no longer required her protection.
February 13, 2013 at 3:23AM ESTAnd defiance/challenges aside, she remains with the Governor....
Jonas.Left Thank you. I respect my opinion, as well, and yours, too. This is definitely subjective. Do you think she's still with him, though? Or is she "with" Woodbury? If I were her, even knowing the dark side of that town, I'd want to help the decent people living there. After going through what she went through I would want to stay. She can't do either of those things if she becomes The Governor's enemy. Not to mention the fact that venturing out on her own would be tantamount to suicide. Like it or not she's stuck there.
February 13, 2013 at 4:13AM ESTAlso, if you recall, Michonne left her. Andrea wanted her to stay, pretty much begged her to stay. As many in this forum have noted, Michonne can be difficult to deal with.
townandcountry As earlier, all your points are good ones. And it is subjective. If I were where Andrea is I would likewise want to stay - to go back out would be unthinkable. Maybe my loathing of the smarmy Governor makes me think zombiefighting would be preferable but I am unfairly wanting Andrea to be some sort of superwoman...Regardless,the show is still grabbing and keeping my attention and I can't wait to see what happens next.
February 14, 2013 at 6:07PM ESTTHEM YELLOW TOPS
February 11, 2013 at 6:30AM EST Reply to CommentAmyoke notice the Breaking Bad reference? Poor Walter White.
Froide Heh. The Governor reported that Rick's team had killed Heisenberg.
February 11, 2013 at 11:06AM ESTFroide Actually, I think he said "Eisenberg".
February 11, 2013 at 12:03PM ESTJonas.Left It would be awesome if Giancarlo Esposito had a cameo in his "Gus Fring blown to hell" makeup.
February 11, 2013 at 8:58PM ESTrcade
February 11, 2013 at 9:33AM EST Reply to CommentThe show is spending too much time on the core characters being separated and whether they'll become reunited or not.
Though Rick's group has become a family of sorts, it's one that has brought on new members and lost old ones many times. At this point, they should find it easier to roll with it when someone they like leaves and someone new seeks to join.
I am worried that the rest of the season will have all these separations continue and they'll use the finale for a "getting the gang back together" episode that's supposed to be a bigger deal than it is.
Lisa I agree. I hope the second half of the season isn't spent with Daryl and Merle in one place, Rick et al at the prison, and Tyrese and his band elsewhere. At first I thought that Daryl had to leave for a moment so Rick would accept Tyrese and his people, but then they tossed in the stupid Lori ghost and Rick told Tyrese to leave (did they leave the prison, or just that room?). Let's not create another stagnant search for Sofia, so to speak.
February 11, 2013 at 1:31PM ESTAlso, will the writers please, please give Michonne some lines? It is very frustrating at this point.
I didn't mind leaving Andrea at Woodbury, and I would not mind there being a vote between her and the Governor. I'm good with that.
RU Serious
February 11, 2013 at 9:58AM EST Reply to CommentUgh. Not a whole lot I liked in this episode, but anything having to do with Andrea talking to those lemmings at Woodbury really overwhelmed anything else positive. Merle's attitude made no sense (what was Merle talking about when he said "Follow my lead"?) after rescue, like is there any real reason for him to be such a dick to everyone RIGHT AWAY?
And I hope Woodbury is over. I can't take those townspeople any more. They are the dumbest group of folks going, I'm not sure how they survived based on their behavior. They basically sway with the wind. It takes three minutes to whip them into a "LET THEM FIGHT TO THE DEATH!" frenzy, then less than a couple of hours to basically want to ram their cars through the barriers, then less than a minute to agree with this person they've seen around camp for a few days and nod sheepishly at each other. I mean for chrissake, it's not enough to have them just smirk and nod like some episode of Diff'rent Strokes about bullying's epilogue, do we have to have them HUGGING?
Yuck. And I've already had enough of Lori's ghost, who's almost as annoying as Lori was. Terrible device going nowhere.
Why Michonne doesn't say something about her knowledge of who's where and when has gottne to the point where I don't even want them to recover the character. Kill her off and hang her stupid sword on the wall (which is in surprisingly good shape after all the zombie slashing).
Andrew McG Well Said. I want to like the show. I have read the graphic novels and I have read the prose novels. I have liked all seasons so far, yes including Season 2. But this episode was so BAD. It was over the top cheese that made no sense.
February 11, 2013 at 11:28AM ESTjoel This really was a miserable episode. I can't disagree with anything you said. The townspeople were some of the worst extras I've seen in quite some time. Their "performances" in the background were so over-acted and ridiculous that I found myself distracted by them.
February 11, 2013 at 1:42PM ESTAnd Andrea's speech was fine, but the timing of it was totally off and the crowd reaction to tonally made no sense. One minunte these people are hysterically trying to escape, then they witness the first walker attack they've seen in months, and watch a wounded neighbor brutally shot in the head by their leader. And a short stump speech later they're nodding their heads and calm. What the hell?
Andrew1073 I have to agree with all of the sentiment behind this post. Love the show, but need a better episode to bring me back to its former glory. After such a long wait, this episode was more annoying than anything.
February 11, 2013 at 2:48PM ESTLauraK Bravo!! You nailed it.
February 11, 2013 at 10:27PM ESTEllen M.
February 11, 2013 at 10:01AM EST Reply to CommentI liked this episode and was glad that the pace was slowed a bit. It was hard to see Daryl go off with psycho brother Merle but I understood why he did. Sooner or later, Merle will do something that Daryl can't accept and he'll be looking for Rick and the group again. AS Carol said, Daryl has a code and he will not be able to tolerate his brother's complete callousness. It makes me wonder where Merle will go after that happens. Maybe he'll go back and poke the Governor's other eye out.
The ghost of Lori was the only thing that I was not really happy with. I get why Rick can't accept others into the group right now. They have done a good job depicting his mental meltdown. But too many recurrences of Lori in ghost form will bore me. I am looking forward to Rick's mental health getting back on track so we they have a chance fighting off the Governor's impending attack. I like a little clarity about which leader is nuts and which is not.
Printin' Mike
February 11, 2013 at 10:31AM EST Reply to CommentIn re action vs. talking: TWD could use a lot more dialogue, actually. Unfortunately, well-written, thought-provoking dialogue isn’t exactly TWD’s strength.
I was mostly struck by the weakness of the respective dictators’ acting in the opening and closing scenes of the episode (the Governor during the Fight Club/WWE scene, and Rick during the Ghostly Woman who is probably Lori but you can’t really tell because we don’t get a clear view of her for some inexplicable reason scene). Maybe it’s partly due to the fact that both actors are English, but, whenever Lincoln or Morrissey are asked to show extreme anger, the fake American/Southern accents become more cartoonish and noticeable (and highly distracting). I like Lincoln, don’t get me wrong, he has carried this show for a long time, and I have great respect for him as an actor. But, it seemed like he was really struggling to make sense of that final scene, and just couldn’t quite pull it off. Granted, he was given shit to work with, so I don’t blame him one bit. (Rick, deeply suspicious and distrusting, is about to be won over by Hershel’s common sense and allow Tyrese and his small group to remain in the prison, but … NO: Ghost Lori has to appear, and make Rick crazeee angry for some reason, because, we simply cannot allow anyone to do anything logical or rational on this show.)
Also on the negative side: more scowling mute action; Daryl leaving the group for reasons that go against every scene he’s been in during the entire series; and, Andrea talking.
On the positive side, I really like Tyrese and his wife (does she have a name? If so, I didn’t catch it). Rational, realistic humans are a great addition to the cast. And, I really liked Carol’s scenes in this episode. She was actually given a few good lines and did a good job. “He has a code, and we need men like that” was probably my favorite of the episode. I really liked Meryl’s dialogue this episode, as usual. (Especially, his pantomime, when talking about Andrea and Michonne’s relationship.) Seems like character’s who weren’t in the comics are given more latitude to be human and interesting. Hmmm – maybe the show henceforth should completely ditch Kirkman’s juvenilia and go off in a completely new direction???
eddieisannoy It's Sasha. In fact I noticed they mentioned her name several times as well as the Ben and Alan as if they knew the audience wouldn't know their names well. And I didn't get the impression that Sasha is his wife, but I haven't read the comics.
February 11, 2013 at 10:40AM ESTFroide Acc. to the AMC website, Sasha is Tyreese's younger sister.
February 11, 2013 at 11:19AM ESTPrintin' Mike Interesting - OK, that makes sense. It was clear that Tyreese and Sasha were close (having staying in their neighbor's bunker from the initiation of the outbreak), but it wasn't clear if they were married or just related in some way.
February 11, 2013 at 12:36PM ESTHG Carol wins the most improved award for me. Between her reaction to finding out that Lori didn't make it and her speech comparing Darryl leaving to time spent with her abusive husband, she's quickly becoming one of my favorite female characters (after Maggie, duh)
February 11, 2013 at 1:17PM ESTbbq_hax0r I'm not arguing with you Mike, but I'm curious to what you meant about Daryl acting out of character. I didn't see it that far of a stretch (and actually found it consistent) for his character to go off with Merle for a variety of reasons.
February 11, 2013 at 1:59PM ESTThink about to when he was off searching for the zombie barn girl and he had a vision of Merle. Clearly Merle meant a lot to him and he was actively searching for him. Just because he, likely, assumed his brother had perished and forgiven the people who put him in a position to possibly perish, doesn't mean he ever stopped wanting to be with Merle.
Curious as to how you think his decision was out of character.
Charlotte Sasha is Tyrese's sister.
February 11, 2013 at 2:13PM ESTPrintin' Mike BBQ: out of character in the sense that we’ve seen Daryl over the course of 2.5 seasons now. We’ve watched him grow extremely close to Rick’s group, while at the same time, every character exposition that we’re given of Daryl shows how much his life sucked pre-apocalypse (including his non-existent and horrible family life). The only appearance of his brother during his time with Rick’s group is the dream/hallucination sequence from last season, where Meryl is presented in a negative light. Yeah, we’re shown that Meryl is on Daryl’s mind, but not in a positive way. So, yes, I think it’s a bit out of character. A better written show might have drawn a contrast between Daryl’s wanting to be with his brother and Carol’s recently acquired clarity of thought about abusive relationships. Or, we might have been given more background into why Daryl might have made the decision he did (i.e. a recognition that Meryl is a piece of shit, but that he helped save Daryl and took care of him after their mother died, for example). But, that is probably asking too much of TWD.
February 11, 2013 at 2:54PM ESTJonas.Left Daryl has become close to the group, but there's always been a gulf that makes him feel not quite one of fhem. Its why he's so close to Carol, because he recognizes in her the pain he feels himself.
February 11, 2013 at 5:31PM ESTBryan L I'll second the "ditch Kirkman's juvenilia and go in a new direction" comment. I've said it before, but the show is at its very strongest when it's not following Kirkman. Kirkman's plots only exist to drive the characters further into misery and despair. That's not that interesting over the long haul.
February 12, 2013 at 12:08PM ESTMinmin
February 11, 2013 at 10:33AM EST Reply to CommentLet's just hope Carol doesn't assuage her loneliness with Axel.
I like this episode. It was slower, and perhaps as Alan suggested it might have made more sense to break up the midseason finale a little bit differently, but it successfully managed to set up a number of story arcs for the remainder of the season.
Least favorite (in terms of acting): Rick's craziness
Most favorite: Glen's evolution, and the entry of Tyreese and company.
Woodbury: Although it's done rather blatantly, I like this story arc. People WANT/CRAVE a semblance of normality. The Governor is able to do this, but the residents have to willfully blind themselves to some pretty obvious things. The fight, and later the entry of biters into the community has made them realize how fragile their community is, but of course they have no clue how bad it is outside. And why shouldn't Andrea be listened to? The governor has shown he likes and respects her (though clearly he didn't quite trust her) and he has trotted her out as his "partner." The Woodbury lemmings can recognize this, and also recognize that she might have insights that they don't, shielded as they have been from most of the madness outside their walls.
Michonne. Oh, I convinced myself that the writers would realize that they had to do something about her character. Maybe they have concussion.
Minmin
February 11, 2013 at 10:34AM EST Reply to CommentLet's just hope Carol doesn't assuage her loneliness with Axel.
I like this episode. It was slower, and perhaps as Alan suggested it might have made more sense to break up the midseason finale a little bit differently, but it successfully managed to set up a number of story arcs for the remainder of the season.
Least favorite (in terms of acting): Rick's craziness
Most favorite: Glen's evolution, and the entry of Tyreese and company.
Woodbury: Although it's done rather blatantly, I like this story arc. People WANT/CRAVE a semblance of normality. The Governor is able to do this, but the residents have to willfully blind themselves to some pretty obvious things. The fight, and later the entry of biters into the community has made them realize how fragile their community is, but of course they have no clue how bad it is outside. And why shouldn't Andrea be listened to? The governor has shown he likes and respects her (though clearly he didn't quite trust her) and he has trotted her out as his "partner." The Woodbury lemmings can recognize this, and also recognize that she might have insights that they don't, shielded as they have been from most of the madness outside their walls.
Michonne. Oh, I convinced myself that the writers would realize that they had to do something about her character. Maybe they have concussion.Write a comment...
Tyler Durden
February 11, 2013 at 11:13AM EST Reply to Commentdoes anyone else feel uncomfortable with the Rick and Beth? She's got the baby, doing here part....that would create an interesting, and questionable storyline. what is Beth? 17?
Andrea is strange strange character. Her loyalties and her personality are just....all over the place.
LauraK I did notice that kiss but didn't feel uncomfortable. He's basically the only single man around. Alliances will be different.
February 11, 2013 at 10:21PM ESTMark I noticed the kiss too - SUPER awkward. She's incredibly young, for one, but Carl has a thing for her too. That's just not going to work out well. I see a Crazy Stupid Love storyline in the works. Let's just hope Beth can't get her hands on a poloroid camera.
February 13, 2013 at 4:36PM ESTjake
February 11, 2013 at 11:34AM EST Reply to CommentDid anyone else notice on Talking Dead that Kevin Smith's reference to "chocolate covered pretzels" seem to go over the audience's head in response to dealing with Michael Rooker?
Jonas.Left I wish it hadhgone over my head. Mallrats is just awful. On the plus side, it was Jason Lee's first major role. On the negative side (with most of the movie), Claire Forlani gives one of the worst performances I've ever seen.
February 11, 2013 at 5:38PM ESTTimm S
February 11, 2013 at 12:12PM EST Reply to CommentWow, a lot happened. But then I think about it, not much really happened. Everybody's pretty much where they were, feeling the same things they did when the show went on hiatus. Except fro Daryl, but they way the leaving with Merle scene played, I never thought for one minute he wouldn't end up back with Team Rick.
Anybody else notice the way this episode was shot? I'm not sure if they switched DP's (Alan, maybe you could shed some light), but it looked different than it has. Everything looked like it was shot as though he were filming a theater production of TWD. The Governor-walking-through-fog, and its companion the Rick-pulls-his-gun-and-loses-shit scenes had the look/feel of everyone making sure they hit their marks. It was a little off-putting, and felt really different.
Also, campaign speeches or not, haven't we learned the less Blondie Duckface gives speeches the better off we are? Just terrible speech-making. Give me Tim Calhoun (for Senator) in a walk any day.
Robert
February 11, 2013 at 1:00PM EST Reply to CommentI thought the episode was simply awful -- great long stretches of dialogue that told us nothing we didn't already know about the characters, silly "soap opera misunderstandings," the sort of thing where characters act on an obvious misunderstanding of another character's actions or statements that, in the real world, would be cleared up in an instant by someone asking a simple question (I.e., "You mean me?"). Example: Tyrese and the others running out when Rick screams "Get out" at Laurie's ghost.
How bad was the episode in my view? Well, I'm done with this series until the season's over and I have the chance to watch with a fast-forward button in hand.
(And a word on Michone: Brooding and snarling through every scene is not acting. Writing a character who broods and snarls through every scene without a HINT of depth or back story is not writing. I'm guessing the writers are counting on folks having read the source material. But I haven't, and all the series has given me in Michone is character who, at this point, is simply irritating.)
bbq_hax0r Most of the dialog was just asinine. I actually found myself zoning out during the Herschel Glenn/Maggie scenes. I don't think I'm prepared to deal with that whole mess, and I'd prefer the show try and not touch on such a deep issue, I mean they struggle with nuance and dealing with minor issues much less complex serious ones.
February 11, 2013 at 1:48PM ESTI did like the Carol (short-haired) scenes. I thought that was good character development, but that was relatively short compared to the rest.
As for Michonne, you're dead on. We're supposed to like her because she was awesome in the comic and has a sword and hates the antagonist, yet they haven't given us one reason to like her. She's one of the worst characters in the history of TV. Hell she makes the Governor sympathetic. And don't even get me started on Rick and his ghost visions... I wonder why I stay with this show. Potential only can get it so far.
Jonas.Left If you zoned out during the Glenn/Hershel scene, you missed one of the most touching moments of the series.
February 11, 2013 at 5:41PM ESTbbq_hax0r
February 11, 2013 at 1:12PM EST Reply to CommentRick = Governor both are bad.
Best line from Talking Dead:
"I knew the Governor was evil, but now that he's unhinged and lost it it is so obvious!" - Chris
Very next segment.
"Man has Rick lost it, it's great!" - Chris
All about perspective.
Dave Clark
February 11, 2013 at 1:39PM EST Reply to CommentHere is my commentary on the social and psychological symbolism of last night's episode. It includes thoughts on the Governor's eyepatch, blood being thicker than water and ethical codes. http://www.squidoo.com/walking-dead-symbols-as-social-and-psychological-commentary
Galooga
February 11, 2013 at 6:26PM ESTWhy do you think anyone would care enough about your opinion to paste that URL into their browser and open up a new window?
That isn't how comment sections work. You post your thoughts here. Nobody is interested in you enough to go to your blog.
Teklanika
February 11, 2013 at 1:51PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know, I'm kind of ready for the two groups (Rick & Gov) to choose up sides and go after each other already.
I think that war between the 2 groups would be more interesting than who likes who such as: is Michone with Rick? Will Darryl return? Will Rick trust the newcomers? Is Rick completely insane?
Michael Dowling
February 11, 2013 at 2:49PM EST Reply to CommentI'm mixed up here, I don't like where they're going with Rick at all. I thought these hallucinations were done with the telephone sequence, then the Shane hallucination and now Lori at the jail and having a nervous breakdown? It's dumb and it's still early enough to move away from this story-line and I hope they do.
They've moved on without Shane, the show will not survive without Rick and it appears they are paving the way for him to be supplanted, killed, lost faith in etc...
I don't know where to start with Merle at this point, Glen AGAIN does not put a bullet in this guys head. I know his brother is there but f***, he tried to murder you and your GF, for all you know could've led to the rape of your GF, beat you 10 ways from Tuesday. I don't get Glen's inaction at all, they haven't explained his inability to deal with Merle even though he's had several opportunities to do so.
Rick's group is way thin at this point. It's basically Rick, Glen, a kid, and a convict I don't quite trust at all yet. Tyrese is clearly going to be a pivotal character as I suppose Michone will too, I agree the two white guys are as good as dead, but probably not before causing major problems.
The theme seems to be for every good person that comes into the group one or two are bad news.
Overall a C for this episode.
Michael Dowling I also want to add it's a show about zombies, at some point they have to play a role more prevalent that occasional spooky prop.
February 11, 2013 at 2:51PM ESTHow is it Woodbury can keep zombies out with a few fences and cars yet the military is completely overrun?
JamesG @Michael Dowling
February 11, 2013 at 4:00PM ESTTo me, that's always been the biggest plot hole on the show. Given the way we've been told the zombie virus works, the military and local law enforcement should have easily been able to contain the outbreak. Zombies are not threatening in small numbers and are fairly easy to kill, so a concentrated effort should have eradicated the population shortly after the outbreak. Just look how easily Rick and the gang cleared the prison with less than 10 people. Now let's see what a full battalion could do with much better equipment and training.
Jonas.Left JAMESG You believe the premise of the show is a plot hole? Because a show about a problem that turned out not to be that big a deal sounds pretty boring. Tonight, s episode - Rick, Lori, and Carl remember that time there was a zombie outbreak that amounted to nothing.
February 11, 2013 at 5:48PM ESTRWGibson13 heh, it all comes full circle, really. Like the modern horror genre in the "Scream" films, the whole zombie thing has become such a staple of pop culture that it's hard to imagine that the populace at large might succumb to such a thing after being exposed to it to such a degree in pop fiction...
February 11, 2013 at 6:47PM ESTRWG (that said, the modern military institution does seem like it can withstand pretty much anything)
Jonas.Left According to Robert Kirkman the world of the show never had zombie fiction. So, everything about walkers had to be learned the hard way.
February 11, 2013 at 6:59PM ESTI actually think either scenario is reasonable, society crumbles or humanity triumphs, as long as they're done well.
RWGibson13 "The world of the show" obviously never had competent American military or civil leaders either, or the main characters of TWD after three seasons wouldn't be washed up local sheriffs or insane would-be dictators or sword-wielding mutes either.
February 11, 2013 at 7:27PM ESTSeriously, if the purpose of this show is to prove civilization hasn't advanced humanity any at all over several thousands of years, it's doing its job. Very, very well.
RWG (just don't expect me to buy into it)
Bryan L The complete lack of organized zombie resistance has always been one of the weakest points of the show. It defies logic that a small town could hold out while major military bases fall. It could have been addressed early in the show, simply by saying "Nobody knows what happened, or why, but large numbers of people started dying and turning to zombies." If half the soldiers in a military based turned overnight, it makes sense that the base would be overrun. It would tie into "everyone is already infected" and presumably, some people are less susceptible than others. IT would also make sense that family groups survived (similar immune systems). By aggressively NOT providing any information about the zombie outbreak, it actually makes things more implausible, not less.
February 12, 2013 at 12:23PM EST- 1
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