Mid-season finale review: 'The Walking Dead' - 'Made to Suffer': We take care of our own
One group makes new friends, while the other reconnects with old ones
Carl (Chandler Riggs) on patrol in "The Walking Dead."
Are you a fan of The Walking Dead?
Sign up to get the latest updates instantly.
A review of "The Walking Dead" mid-season finale coming up just as soon as I make assumptions about your sexual orientation based on your haircut...
"All this time, running from walkers, you forget what people do." -Maggie
Though it hasn't been perfect (notably in Michonne's minimal characterization), this eight-episode chunk of season 3 has been the strongest sustained period "The Walking Dead" has ever put together. Part of that uptick in overall quality comes, as we've talked about, from Rick and his group simply getting better at what they do. But the side effect of that is the other big reason why the show has been better more often:
The zombies are almost besides the point now.
They are a threat, and will continue to be for as long as this story is being told. Characters will continue to die because a walker popped up unexpectedly at the worst possible time. But Rick and his group, and the Governor and his people, and now Tyreese(*) and his group, have all survived long enough to developed various coping mechanisms for life in the zombie apocalypse.
(*) thoughts on Tyreese: 1)He's played by Chad L. Coleman, aka Cutty from "The Wire." 2)Glen Mazzara has talked in the past about his fondness for "Lost" and how parts of "The Walking Dead" are modeled on it, and our glimpses of Tyreese's crew having a rougher go of it in the woods felt very much like a miniature version of "The Other 48 Days," the "Lost" episode that showed what Ana Lucia and the tailies had been up to while our heroes were having fun on the beach. 3)Tyreese is another character from the comics, and let me remind you to carefully read the warning at the bottom of this review. Short version: any information the show has yet to reveal about this character is off-limits in the comments.
The zombies are a problem, but they're no longer the biggest one. Other people are.
And that's much, much more interesting.
Zombies can be cool. Zombies can be scary. Zombies can sure as hell be gross. What they can't be is anything more than that. They are mindless eating machines and nothing more. And that stops being compelling in and of itself after a half dozen or so hours of TV.
By using the zombies not as primary antagonists, but as the inciting incident forcing all these people to make hard — at times monstrous — choices, "The Walking Dead" has become a much more morally complicated show, in addition to remaining one that's great at action and suspense.
Rick and his group are the good guys, but they've done questionable things. As Glenn said a few weeks ago, if it came down to it, he would choose any member of the group over anyone outside it. Last week, we saw Michonne escape from the Governor's forces and wind up locked in a more literal prison; we know that Rick is more benevolent than the Governor, but it's understandable why she might not see as great a gulf between the two leaders.
Still, there's a very clear difference, as evidenced how the people of Woodbury and then Carl dealt with their respective new visitors. Glenn and Maggie were kidnapped, tortured and threatened with execution (or worse, in "the screamer pits"), and Rick and the invaders (who, admittedly, were more violent to people than Tyreese's crew) were met with gunfire. Carl sees new people in the prison in trouble, and he saves them, before locking them in the common room outside their cell block. They're safe, but not free. Beth asks Carl if he should do something to help those people, and he says — matter-of-factly, not cruelly, but simply aware of the realities of their new life — "I did." Compassion, but only to a point.
As for Woodbury, we know that they murder and steal from those who either stand against the Governor or are more valuable to him dead than alive. But Andrea's not being completely brainwashed by this man. There is value to the community beyond protection, as she points out to him in an early scene. It just happens that this community has been formed by a megalomaniac determined to find a cure for the zombie plague only to save his daughter. And though the Governor is largely villainous, you understand why he would be so filled with hate at Michonne putting her sword through Penny's head, and why he would assume Merle (who, remember, claimed to have killed Michonne in the woods) was a traitor and demand his death right alongside Daryl's.(**)
(**) It occurs to me that, the dream sequence early in season 3 aside, this is the first time we've seen the two brothers interacting in the present, since Daryl was elsewhere when T-Dog and Rick and the others left Merle cuffed on the rooftop.
The Governor is the bad guy, but he's also a person (albeit a crazy one). We saw in the bar gunfight midway through season 2 just how effective human-on-human tension and violence can be on this show, and things are only messier now, with the Dixon brothers together, with Andrea perhaps finally realizing she's on the wrong side, Michonne working alongside Rick who understandably has no reason to trust her.(***)
(***) Yes, the Governor's men tried to kill Michonne, but that still doesn't explain the extent of the mad-on she has for the guy that she would really want to go back to Woodbury just to try to kill him. Again and again and again, the show's failure to let us know what makes Michonne tick has been this season's biggest flaw.
Walkers are a menace, but people are the real danger to each other now. And that's why I'll be pleased to welcome "The Walking Dead" back in February.
Some other thoughts:
* RIP, Oscar. We hardly knew ye. And I should have started worrying about him the moment Tyreese appeared on screen, based on how Rick's crew seems to have room for only one African American male at a time.
* Oscar's death leaves Axel as the last man standing from the prison population, and it's unclear at this point if he's a genuine threat (as Carol suspects) or just a horny guy who's been in prison for too long (as he claims). Still, it's another reminder that perhaps it wasn't Rick's best idea to leave his 12-year-old son as the only fighter at the prison to protect his baby daughter, the one-legged veterinarian, Beth and Carol. (And Carol has recovered remarkably well from going a few days without food and water.)
* Rick may have overcome his audio hallucinations from the phone call period, but he's still haunted by ghosts, in this case seeing Shane (with a Wolverine haircut and facial hair) walking towards him with a gun, when it was really just one of the Governor's men. (And his shock at the sight of Shane prevented him from getting off a shot and saving Oscar.)
Once again, let me remind you again of this blog's No Spoiler rule and how it applies to this show, as I've had to delete a bunch of comments the last few weeks that violated it. Basic things to remember before commenting:
1. No talking about the previews for the next episode.
2. No talking about anything else you know about upcoming episodes from other sources — and, yes, that includes anything Mazzara and Kirkman have said in interviews.
3. No talking about anything that's happened in the comic that hasn't happened in the TV show yet. (Or anything that's been revealed, like character backstory and motivation.) As with "Game of Thrones," the goal is to treat "The Walking Dead" TV show as exactly that, and not as an excuse for endless comparisons with the comics. If you want to talk about the comics, feel free to start up a discussion thread on our message boards.
With that in mind, what did everybody else think?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
News From Our Partners
-
FX's 'The Strain' Taps 'Alias' Mia Maestro as Female Lead
FX's 'Tyrant': Ang Lee Drops out of Directing the Pilot, Cites 'Life of Pi' Exhaustion
NBC's 'Siberia': New Reality-Skewing Drama Ordered for Summer
-
What to Watch Tonight: The Season Finales of Rectify and Hawaii Five-0 and the Series Premieres of The Goodwin Games and Motive
Mad Men "The Crash" Review: Uppers Give You Wings!
News Briefs: CBS Is Pulling Mike & Molly's Season Finale Due to a Tornado Storyline
-
Ultra Music Festival Dates Announced, Tickets Go on Sale May 21
Girls' Generation's Jessica Poses With Purses in Vogue Girl [Pics]
Austin Mahone vs. Jonas Brothers – Pop Clash
-
Ranking the Blockbusters with Summer Movie Scorecard 2013
RT on DVD & Blu-Ray: The Last Stand and Side Effects
Box Office Guru Wrapup: Star Trek Softer Than Expected at #1
-
'Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters': Jeremy Renner Never Read the Script Before Signing On
'Angry Birds' Movie Flies Forward
Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique: First Look at the Actress in 'X-Men: Days of Future Past'
-
'Star Trek Into Darkness' Takes Box-Office Crown With $84 Million
'Arrested Development' Gang: Where Are They Now?
'Star Trek Into Darkness': What's Next For J.J. Abrams And The Cast?
-
Hear This: With “Deceptacon,” Le Tigre captured the sound of youth in a song
Watch This: Walter Hill’s The Driver is all about work done well
Scenic Routes: A quiet scene from The Matrix demonstrates how to make exposition compelling
-
The Telefile - Veep: The Episode's Best Insults
The Telefile - Saturday Night Live: Straight Outta 8H
The Telefile - Game of Thrones: Our Weekly Westeros Scorecard
Get Instant Alerts on What's Alan Watching
Latest Posts
-
Some interesting pieces in a new sitcom from the 'HIMYM' guys, but it's a dead show walkingMonday, May 20, 2013
-
Dan and Alan also review 'Save Me,' talk about 'SNL' departures and a wacky 'Mad Men'Monday, May 20, 2013
-
A police procedural that doesn't bother with whodunnit, but doesn't replace it with anything interestingMonday, May 20, 2013
-
The paperback is being re-released tomorrowMonday, May 20, 2013


Comments
Option 1
Comment instantly as a guest GuestOption 2
Option 3
Login or create a HitFix account Login Signup- 1
- 2
- 3
Next 283 Commentsideemo
December 2, 2012 at 11:08PM EST Reply to CommentCUTTY FROM THE CUT!
Guest I hope he'll teach Carl how to box.
December 2, 2012 at 11:11PM ESTideemo that is a magnificent idea.
December 2, 2012 at 11:12PM ESTGuest I hope he unsuccessfully tries his hand at being an enforcer for the local drug kingpin first.
December 3, 2012 at 5:34AM ESTJamie the game has definitely got more fierce
December 3, 2012 at 10:14AM ESTBgklein He survived West Baltimore, this should be a walk in the park for him
December 3, 2012 at 10:24AM ESTEllen M. This was great episode but I agree with all said about Andrea and Michonne.
December 3, 2012 at 11:15AM ESTAndrea is so willingly blind about bad guys she wants to "do"- that it has become unbelievable. She has seen so much at this point that would turn her off to the Governor. So surprised she didn't see Rick's spector of Shane and run after him herself. Please, Kirkman, give her some good man-choosing-wisdom for pity sake.
Michonne keeps too much to herself. She wanted Rick to rescue Glen and Maggie but she used the group for her revenge on the Governor. She has plenty of motivation to kill him because he:
1. Killed off all the soldiers for their stuff.
2. Imprisons Biters for all sorts of bad reasons
3. Won't let anyone leave Woodbury without some complications (and he took her sword).
4. He had Merle try to kill her.
5. She wants to prove to Andrea that the guy is more than bad news.
The fact that she saw the floating heads and Penny in his private quarters was just icing on the cake.
Even with all of this - she needs to start talking. I understand that she won't say anything otherwise people would suspect her motives. But they already suspect her motives. It will be interesting to see how she interacts with Rick and his group in future.
I hope Andrea saves Daryl and Merle and finally gets out of Woodbury.
Darkdoug Ellen, I'm sorry, but Andrea has always been an idiot. While I agree with everything you said about Michonne, Andrea has had a chip on her should from the days of the quarry. Her disobeying the Governor's orders because she wants to be one of the gunmen (more important than the skill of an individual is the teamwork and discipline and cooperation established by a fighting unit - Andrea has NONE of that; even if the Gov was really just trying to keep her from running into her old friends, his keeping her off the team makes tactical sense), is totally in character. She ended up shooting Daryl last season for the exact same reasons - she was going to SHOW those dumb men how badass she could be, and made a highly ill-advised shot that there was no need to take.
December 3, 2012 at 11:44AM ESTHer behavior after the attack at the quarry was kind of governor-esque as well, ignoring all the clean-up & burial work to cuddle Amy's corpse (and risking another potential zombie to threaten her friends).
Andrea is a self-centered idiot, who does what she wants, and worries about other people or their safety and concerns last. Being useful is always less important to her than getting to strut her stuff and show off her badassery. And she falls in with the Governor & Shane, because she loves being fawned over and having people admire her. The guys in her group are mostly interested in the younger, more attractive members like Lori, Maggie & Beth, so she ends up with random strangers who happen to hold positions of power (and thus their attentions are more flattering) or outcasts from the group, like Shane.
Ellen M. DARKDOUG I agree with all you say about Andrea but I would like to see growth in her character. Hopefully after her stint with the Governor - we will see something change in her a bit. I think when a character keeps repeating the same behavior she should be gone or show some development. Maybe she gets to be a total bad-ass - fine with me. I just want to see something change like we saw with other characters, i.e. Daryl.
December 3, 2012 at 12:15PM ESTEd
December 2, 2012 at 11:11PM EST Reply to CommentExcellent write-up, Alan!
Here's my thoughts:
- Great to see Cutty from "The Wire" get out of the head smashing business of boxing and in to the head smashing business of killing walkers.
- The fatal shot sustained by Ghost Shane almost exactly mirrors Jesse Pinkman's killshot to Gale on "Breaking Bad."
- I still don't care about Michonne.
Great first half to the season; let's see what Mazzara and Company have planned for the return in February.
HISLOCAL The "gunshot just under the eye" death has been used alot lately, I wonder if people just got tired of "gunshot dead center on forehead" was too cliche and moved onto a new thing?
December 3, 2012 at 9:59AM ESTDarkdoug Also, Vic Mackey's murder of Terry on the Shield pilot episode, and Jimmy's death at the hands of Nucky, IIRC.
December 3, 2012 at 11:46AM ESTI think they like it because it looks like a tear and is all symbolic imagery and crap.
blackcoffee Speaking of guns...what kind of gun was Carl using in the prison?
December 3, 2012 at 11:56AM ESTMark in Omaha It's some kind of semi-automatic pistol with a suppersor/silencer screwed onto the end of the barrel. If you Google weapons and Walking Dead you could probably find someone who has identified the brand, model, and caliber if you wanted a more detailed answer.
December 3, 2012 at 12:53PM ESTSareeta
December 2, 2012 at 11:12PM EST Reply to CommentCome on---was it really that hard for Michonne to tell Andrea that The Governor has been holding Glen and Maggie captive and torturing them and so she's come back to save them? I don't understand why they are making Michonne so frustrating.
Other than that, intense episode with one hell of a cliffhanger. I really hope Daryl doesn't die.
The Tyreese stuff was cool. It definitely reminded me of the beginning of Lost season 2, with the other plane survivors. I like Tyreese and am interested in how his group meshes with our group. Very glad Carl helped them, but kept them locked away separately. Smart move.
rcade Does Michonne know Andrea would know Glen and Maggie?
December 2, 2012 at 11:19PM ESTOther Scott Rcade:
December 2, 2012 at 11:23PM ESTDoesn't matter. "Merle took two strangers captive and started torturing them for information with the consent of the Governor" should get her point across plenty fine.
Sareeta The point is that Michonne didn't say ANYTHING in her own defense. Argh!
December 2, 2012 at 11:26PM ESTFroide RE: Does Michonne know Andrea would know Glen and Maggie?
December 2, 2012 at 11:55PM ESTWhile agree with RCADE and SAREETA, it seems logical that Michonne would assume Andrea knew Glenn and Maggie, since Michonne knew that: (1) Andrea knew Merle, (2) Daryl's Merle's brother, and (2) Glenn knew both Merle and Daryl.
Froide Oops...meant, "While I agree with OTHER SCOTT and SAREETA."
December 3, 2012 at 12:18AM ESTkima Why tell Andrea anything? Seriously, why bother? Andrea's proven she's beyond all logic at this point. She's massively attracted to/reeled in by/willing to believe anything the Governor says, so why bother?
December 3, 2012 at 12:38AM ESTMichionne's stupid silences are annoying, but if there's anything she was vocal on to Andrea it was that the Governor is bad.
Sorry Andrea's made her bed and she's beyond helping now. I might have a little empathy for her, but, oh wait, yep there she is at the end of the episode willing to still watch the Governor threaten to throw Daryl to the zombies.
Andrea's stupid. There's no point telling her anything. We all want to like her and want her to use her brain, but she continually refuses especially when it comes to the Governor. You can't be mad when people stop trying to warn you about what you clearly just don't want to see.
STRINGER CELL KIMA (spelt the same way Det. Greggs spells it!!) - couldn't agree with u more. Michonne's characterization is very frustrating and almost distracting at times BUT that moment sword to gun was played perfectly. Michonne doesnt feel the need to explain herself to someone who chose (albeit not singularly) her "new friend" over her--a new friend might i add--that hasnt earned the trust the Michonne has over 8ish months. Having said that...i wish they woud flesh out the Andrea-Michonne relationship details and stop the crazy scowls already.
December 3, 2012 at 5:55AM EST
How is it exactly that Andrea never heard noises coming out of the Governor's man cave and wondered what's going on in there? Do you have to go into a zen-like trance in order to detect the faint zombie sounds through 2 doors like the magical Michonne did?
December 3, 2012 at 8:44AM ESTHISLOCAL I agree that Michonne is a terrible character, but the one exception was the standoff with Andrea. Like others above me have said, Michonne tried time and time again to warn Andrea, and not only did Andrea not listen, she actually jumped right into the Governor's bed, and is now pointing a gun at her best friend to defend him. In Michonne's mind, she's like "I tried to tell you and you didn't listen, so fudge ya".
December 3, 2012 at 10:03AM ESTSo, the standoff was good, but yeah why does Michonne hate the Governor SO much that she went back just to kill him? Because he made her look foolish that one time? She really is a bad character.
Mark in Omaha Because he "made her look foolish", or because he sent a death squad after her and wanted them to bring her head back to him. Probably the second thing.
December 3, 2012 at 11:48AM ESTDarkdoug Allow me to chime in with my fellow Wire fans and Andrea bashers.
December 3, 2012 at 11:59AM ESTRegarding Hislocal's (and Alan's) issue, the Governor touched her sword, took it for his own and put it on display. She gives the impression that the sword is important to her (like a biker's Harley or something - you just don't touch it).
Alternatively, the Occam explanation is: He sent men out into the woods to track her down and murder her! Seriously? You people really need an explanation for her motive to kill the man ultimately responsible for the wounds she is still suffering, even limping, from? The man who tried to kill her, just for the crime of being right about his creepy little faux-Mayberry?
All too often Alan falls short in his expectations that badass action characters think like suburbanites with cushy writing jobs, and is caught flatfooted when they make choices that seem counter-intuitive to non-violent types. This, however, is an error on the other extreme - What doesn't kill, maim or disfigure an action hero is not worth talking about, so why would such a character want to kill a guy who gave orders that caused her to get badly hurt, like two days ago? Michonne's hatred for the governor is perfectly explicable, and should be even to us - we'd for damn sure want to kill a guy whose orders to kill us got us that much pain, so why shouldn't Michonne?
John P Exciting mid-season finale, but the silent "standoff" between Michonne and Andrea nearly ruined it for me. Michonne tries for days to convince Andrea that the Gov is a bad man and now she has proof (keeping Glen & Maggie captive, sending Merle to kill her, heads in fishtanks, etc.) yet she just stands there, mute. Of course she knows that Glen was from Andrea's group. The two were together for 8 months and Andrea isn't going to talk about the people she was with? And, of course, there was the Andrea-Merle & Merle-Glen connection someone mentioned earlier. It's just silly that Michonne would leave without one last try to convince Andrea. It was probably necessary for a future plot point (i.e. so that Andrea doesn't leave before Merle/Daryl's execution) but at this point it's just something I like to call "manufactured conflict."
December 3, 2012 at 2:23PM ESTPost a comment...
December 3, 2012 at 3:29PM ESTKendraWM The stand off with Andrea was the only time I liked Michionne. I look at it as Michionne is a loner, saved Andrea, took her in, befriended her, kept her alive and how does Andrea repay her? At the first chance she ditches her for greener grass and a guy. And even after the standoff, Andrea could have gone after Michionne but again choose the Governor.
December 4, 2012 at 12:40PM ESTMichionne purpose was to kill the Governor, I really think she is done with Andrea, she sees Andrea as a person with no loyalty.
This is also me guessing, since we have no Michioone dialog to work with.
bbq_hax0r This nonsense that Michonne tried to warn Andrea is laughable. Rather than actually support why she thinks the governor is bad, ya know, with something resembling logic or facts, she simply stated that its "in her gut" and that Andrea needed to "trust her." Michonne is pathetic. Andrea wouldn't listen? Listen to what!? Michonne never tried explaining anything to her other than some random weird loner feeling in her gut.
December 4, 2012 at 6:08PM ESTOther Scott
December 2, 2012 at 11:21PM EST Reply to CommentI've mostly been a Michonne defender to this point, but she was really awful this episode. It's really for the first time ever in this show that everything everybody is doing makes sense. Everything Andrea does makes sense, though we know more than her, making her seem stupid. Every thing the Governor does makes sense, knowing what we know about him. Everything Rick and the group do makes sense.
And then we have Michonne doing nonsensical things. Going to the Governors house and waiting so she can kill him? Killing his zombie daughter and making him really, really angry in the process? Not explaining anything to Andrea ever? Having two different expressions, both of them a variation on a scowl? At this point I give up.
This is one of those times where a show-runner has to realize a character is not working and boot her. The show has been so high quality this year and she is bringing it down considerably.
Otherwise, another really good episode. I loved the angry governor talking to the people at the end. I almost sympathized with him for a second. Also, he's right that it is all Merle's fault. Not killing Michonne and lying about it, taking Glenn and Maggie captive just so he could find his brother. Sorry, Merle, if you aren't a team player, you are off the team.
JEL Umm you are crazier than The Governor...
December 2, 2012 at 11:39PM ESTJim I love Michonne. It would have been smarter for her to kill the Guv'nor, but it was obvious that she wouldn't because the existance of the 2nd half of the season. She doesn't say much because she has serious trust issues, with good reason. She developed a close relationship with Andrea over 8 months, but is not a naturally talkative. She feels she was betrayed by Andrea, is hurt, and therefore doesn't want to explain her actions to Andrea.
December 3, 2012 at 12:26AM ESTkima Nothing Andrea does makes sense anymore. Nothing.
December 3, 2012 at 12:42AM ESTLet's see Andrea has given up:
1) Her gun
2) Her freedom
3) Her brain
4) Her ability to go anywhere the Governor doesn't want her to go
5) Her ability to think for herself
6) Her ability to stand up for or defend any of her friends
Everyone is taking Andrea's side. Why? Did you not see the Governor getting ready to kill Daryl at the end of the episode?
Andrea's reaction thus far? Nothing. What more information does she need at this point? Really?
Everyone but Andrea is able to see through the Governor. That's on her if she's too stupid to see what's in front of her face.
Other Scott Kima: She gives up all that for protection and safety. It's not actually all that bad a deal. I'd prefer no gun and less freedom over being walker food.
December 3, 2012 at 1:03AM ESTFroide I haven't read the comic, but have wondered if Michonne were privy to some of the Governor's prior bad acts. I recall his telling Andrea he wasn't proud of his house, his car, or his job pre-apocalypse; wonder if he hurt Michonne or someone important to Michonne back in the day. If so, I hope the writers bring it to the forefront pronto, so Michonne's motivations will begin to make sense.
December 3, 2012 at 1:11AM ESTRemy It's true that Michonne's motivations may seem unwarranted but she is angry and jealous that the Governor took Andrea away from her. She did seem very attached to Andrea (not necessarily in a romantic way!). Remember Michonne refused to abandon Andrea when she was sick at the start of the season. They did spend 6 months together. It really bothers her that Andrea can't see through the Governor's facade. Michonne knows he ordered the killing of that group of men. The Governor is pretty evil and just generally creepy. I don't have a hard time believing she hates him that much--he stole away Andrea's affection and she sees him as a cold blooded murderer. What did seem ridiculous was the fact that she didn't finish the job at the end and kill him. But then again that would have sunk the show. There have been a lot more unbelievable plot lines in this show than Michonne's intense hatred. Just enjoy the ride with a bad ass sword wielding tough woman!
December 3, 2012 at 2:10AM ESTnotWalt Kima - Andrea is frustrating, but she is really the best (only?) hope for Darrly and Merle at this point. It seems like she is the only one who is there and might have the means to slow/stop whatever is planned for the brothers.
December 3, 2012 at 8:50AM ESTjack_is_laughing @Froide: Without being spoilery, in the comics there was an event that happened to Michonne while she was the Governor's captive that would easily explain her antagonism towards the Governor. But that never occurred on the show, hence her behavior seems very extreme. Basically she knows Merle and his posse were sent to kill her, so you have to presume she wants revenge on him for that. But why she would sit in the middle of the room with only her sword, waiting for a man she knows is always armed, seems like a really bad plan to me.
December 3, 2012 at 1:21PM ESTHollywoodaholic Why is it a spoiler to reveal the event JACK-IS_LAUGHING is talking about since it already is past where the story is? It would've been such a better motivator for her to want personal revenge on the Governor than because he sent Merle after her.
December 3, 2012 at 3:43PM ESTLarryC I agree governor's actions make sense based on the character as it's been developed. It's completely logical he's seek a scapegoat for his failure to protect his group, something that's undeniable. And Merle did lie to him. So whether or not the governor really believes his own extrapolation of the lie to Merle being a spy for 'the terrorists', he does now know as a practical matter that he can't trust Merle.
December 3, 2012 at 3:54PM ESTI also agree Andrea's actions are logical based on what she knows, though she is a pretty dumb and gullible person underneath the tough exterior; but she has been for awhile.
I also agree it's very hard to figure out Michonne's actions. And I don't think it's just a matter of cushy suburbanites not understanding people of action. At times her lack of communication has made sense, but her silence in the standoff with Andrea is a real stretch of any logic.
itschas Just to echo what JACK_IS_LAUGHING said, in the comic Michonne DEFINITELY has a good reason for wanting to peel away from the group and take out the governor. If you want to spoil the comic and find out why that is I'm sure google would be obliged to inform you. But I think having her go wait was an example of trying to shoehorn a comic book moment into the TV show without properly explaining it. I think for most of us who have read the comic, we already understand Michonne well enough to get over her silence and all that. But I'm sure for everyone else it's really aggravating. But if it makes you feel any better, Andrea is F-n awesome in the comic, and has been mostly lame in the TV show, so we have our own pain there. I really wished they'd adjusted her character more the way they did Lori, Carl, and Carol in between the seasons.
December 4, 2012 at 12:51AM ESTbbq_hax0r Good comments Other Scott. Her "coolness" has not translated to the show and she's been the most noticeable weakness of this season. Terrible.
December 4, 2012 at 6:10PM ESTJLARA
December 2, 2012 at 11:40PM EST Reply to CommentWrite a coWowww! I loved this mid- season finale... with one exception of course:
1) totally agreee with Alan; why is Michonne so obsessed with killin g the governor who up to this point is jut a creepy guy with some fishy business but no harm to her????... Big question mark there.
Other than that, I'm so thrilled about the way they are leaving things for next year. It's a good plot and definetely hoping for Daryl to continue in the group. Because just as Rick said, he needs him. I need him too on the screen on each episode lol.
See ya!
JLARA lol.. I meant.."Wowww"
December 2, 2012 at 11:41PM ESTStating the obvious The Governor sent Merle and Crew after her to kill her!!!!!!! Obviously she wants revenge!
December 3, 2012 at 1:19AM ESTSTRINGER CELL @ STATING - Agreed. If someone sent a 5 guys to kill me in a world where the dead get back up and devour the living. i'd be kinda upset. Upset enough to make sure that dude isnt sending anymore guys after me. If i found myself BACK in woodbury? making sure he's dead is smartest move if u ask me.
December 3, 2012 at 6:02AM ESTBeekayz I wrote this on page 2 before I saw this thread which is probably where my comment belongs:
December 3, 2012 at 8:31AM ESTI don't believe she went back JUST to try and kill him. I think her primary motivation was to 'rescue Andrea', now that she has some concrete proof, and not just her spiderman-like--tingly instincts, about the evilness of the Gov. Of course, killing Gov would be an added bonus.
So why didn't she say anything to Andrea when she had the chance? Well why does Michonne do anything? Who the hell knows! But if I was to speculate, I would say that the same instincts that told her that things at Woodburry just aint right, told her, from the expression on Andrea's face/ body language that she was in a relationship with the Gov and she was too disgusted/upset to say anything 'cos she loves Andrea.
notWalt The problem with Michonne is partly that her motivation regarding the governor is clear in the comic, but because of the changes, it has gotten lost in the show.
December 3, 2012 at 8:52AM ESTlazy iggy
December 2, 2012 at 11:54PM EST Reply to CommentDid we actually see Darryl get caught? Did I miss it?
And I wanted more from michonne...I really felt nothing while watching her fight with the gov
lazy iggy Oops hit post too early....and i thought it odd that she did nt have a strong reaction to seeing the heads of her "protector" walkers in the fishbowls
December 2, 2012 at 11:58PM ESTEMMA No, they didn't bother showing him getting caught. (Surprise, surprise :/ )
December 3, 2012 at 10:15AM ESTNor did they bother showing how Rick & co actually got into Woodbury in the first place (it cut from them being over the road, to them sneaking in the door of one of the houses). This wouldn't have been so irritating if they hadn't spent the first ten minutes of the show (and the last part of last week) showing Rick's group staking out the Woodbury perimeter. Why set up a plot point of "how will they get past the guards?" only to bypass that plot resolution entirely??
Admittedly, the frustrating moments were actually fairly low this week, but I would just love to see this show in the hands of competent writers!!
SlackerInc Emma, you're right: it seems like they do this a lot, when they can't figure out how to get across a logistical hurdle. Like the time Michonne just appeared in the Governor's office after she sworded up the captive walkers.
December 3, 2012 at 9:59PM ESTMinmin
December 2, 2012 at 11:55PM EST Reply to CommentExcellent episode indeed, and in a way that suggests many promising narrative threads in the new year. (No, I won't break the rules, but maybe I'll speculate later...)
I know there must be some fans who miss the total zombie action, but that wouldn't reflect the reality of the times (for the most part). As Alan so nicely wrote, each of the survivor groups has survived because they have developing strengths and skills, and know to put down their own who die. Without doubt everyone of these groups has done some morally questionable things. This is not to say that everyone in a larger group knows of these acts, but that they are there, and their repercussions reverberate.
Suppressed, they yearn to be revealed; or they result in the mistreatment of some for the supposed benefit of the many. Maybe the best we can do is wholly admit that good things can be built on bloodshed and morally questionable choices, and own that.
Getting back to The Walking Dead: t first I thought The Governor had thrown Darryl under the bus, without justification, but of course that's not true, as one of the other commenters pointed out. Michonne's appearance in his zombie room revealed his lie, and perhaps his alliance with his brother. But the real result of this confrontation can only be all-out war, or retreat on Rick's part, which is highly unlikely given the fragility of his group and their hot tempers! And this even with the addition of Tyrese's group.
Andrea is still somewhat n the dark. Without doubt, the zombie room has shaken her trust in the governor, shaken further when she witnesses the reunion between Darryl and Meryl. Is this enough for her to dump ship, or just enough to watch her back a bit more closely?
One note on walker medical research--yeah, they are hopeless cases, nothing more than mindless eating maches. But in the history of medicine their are many examples of cures being discovered for hopeless cases. Hoe is a powerful thing, and heck, even if they dont learn how t positively reanimate the biters, they might learn an effective--and swordfree--way to neutralize them.
Goods episode!
JoeInVegas
December 3, 2012 at 12:00AM EST Reply to CommentGuessing 2013 AMC schedule is:
Walking Dead 18-FEB to 06-APR
Mad Men 13-APR to 06-JUL
Breaking Bad 13-JUL to 31-AUG
DirtyKash Walking Dead is coming back February 10.
December 3, 2012 at 1:30AM ESTEd You're forgetting the possible return of The Killing and Hell on Wheels, not to mention the new series from Robert Kirkman called "Thief of Thieves" and *GASP!* a new season of Small Town Security.
December 3, 2012 at 2:40AM ESTCol Bat Guano I thought The Killing had been cancelled? Or at least not renewed for a third terrible season.
December 3, 2012 at 12:28PM ESTBob Zombie The Killing was cancelled. There's been talk that it would return as a series on Netflix, not AMC. Hell on Wheels will likely be cancelled. AMC hasn't made it official, but it hasn't been officially re-upped yet and the ratings were pretty bad. Alan said as much in his season 2 finale review.
December 3, 2012 at 1:33PM ESThttp://www.hitfix.com/news/report-the-killing-may-get-a-season-3-with-potential-amc-netflix-partnership
Ed Bob, I was going off information from a more recent article on TV.com:
December 3, 2012 at 5:56PM EST"... As we suspected, AMC's The Killing IS returning to television. We think. The latest news is that writers and producers on the show have returned to the writers room to work on a third season, with an eye toward a May launch on AMC. Previous reports about a deal with Netflix are still just that—reports—as no deal has been signed. So to update you, we think that The Killing is maybe coming back again."
http://www.tv.com/news/news-briefs-nbc-schedules-30-rocks-series-finale-and-do-no-harm-bumps-rock-center-30187/
Patty
December 3, 2012 at 12:09AM EST Reply to CommentWHERE IS THE EXTENDED PREVIEW OF THE FEB 2013 WALKING DEAD?
John
December 3, 2012 at 12:11AM EST Reply to CommentAs Alan pointed out, why in the hell does Michone stay behind to kill the governor, after knowing him for about 2-3 days at most.? I get the motivation in the comics, but in the show’s case, it more like poor characterization and poor writing. Now Michone’s an assassin, I assume. Again, a case of poor writing catching up to itself, and having no where to go but to try to resolve itself in a convoluted plotline.
Kato I can only guess (because she's never given any meaningful lines), but Michonne knows from overhearing Merle and the red shirts that the governor wants her dead. Maybe she feels safer with him out of the picture.
December 3, 2012 at 12:38AM ESTnotWalt I agree that Michonne needs more depth... but the Governor did release her only to try to have her killed. And she must still have feelings for Andrea after all those months together and she must blame the gov for saparating them.
December 3, 2012 at 8:56AM ESTBut, yeah, it would be nice to actually develop the character more.
A) As already mentioned by many, the Governor sent Merle and others to the woods to kill her. That's motivation enough.
December 3, 2012 at 10:14AM ESTB) It's not hard to figure that she thinks Andrea's been brainwashed/deceived by the man, and having failed to reason with her she's going to take out the source of the deception.
velocityknown
December 3, 2012 at 12:12AM EST Reply to CommentOkay, here's my biggest problem with this episode and this chunk of 8 episodes overall:
The show clearly wants us to see The Governor as a terrible person, but I just have a hard time doing that. Yeah, he's done some kind of bad stuff, but it also doesn't feel as if he's done anything any worse than what Rick and his team have done.
Rick and his team were prepared to kill what's-his-face last year to prevent him from telling other people about their location. Why is it suddenly villainous for The Governor to want Michonne dead? Especially when she was so distrusting and rude to him. Two things she only was because the show needed her to be to move the plot forward.
Michonne just kind of sucks at this point. I don't know how to put it. She was mean to people who welcomed her in (twice) and then killed the daughter of someone she doesn't like, while still having zero character development.
And for a show that has been killing off a good chunk of characters recently, it sure has a hard time taking any real chances.
If you want The Governor to seem like a villain to me, TWD, have him take away something I actually care about. Yeah, it's villainous that he would take out a National Guard unit, but I don't know or care about them. And, it's not the craziest thing a character could do. If he'd killed Maggie, Glenn, Daryl, or even Merle, maybe I'd see him as more of a threat, but right now he just seems like a leader with less of a moral compass than Rick. The show doesn't want to have him do anything to anyone I actually care about, that's fine, but it really lowers the stakes for the upcoming Rick vs. Governor battle for me.
Was it a strong 8 episodes? Yes. Am I using the word "strong" in a relative sense in comparison to the last two seasons? Yes. The Walking Dead can be a fun show, but these 8 episodes reaffirmed that it'll never come close to being a great one.
T The governor is a far more sympathetic character than Michonne. I can't imagine anyone rooting for Michonne in their fight. She was the bad guy in that situation.
December 3, 2012 at 12:28AM ESTOther Scott Actually, the less villainous and more sympathetic you find the Governor, I think the happier the show is. It purposely points out the similarities between the Governor and Rick, it just has the Governor be a little more extreme and a little more amoral. It also is careful to give the Governor some reason behind almost everything he does. I really think the show has done a good job with his character.
December 3, 2012 at 1:01AM ESTJosh I agree that the show has many problems, still. But the notion that The Governor is a more sympathetic character than Michonne is pretty much insane. He kills innocent people to protect his power, threatens a woman with rape, and is clearly ready to have Glenn and Maggie killed. Michonne kills a zombie child, and somehow she's LESS sympathetic? I understand that the writing, particularly for Michonne, is weak, but I don't understand how anyone watching the show would root for the Governor.
December 3, 2012 at 1:29AM ESTMark "Yeah, he's done some kind of bad stuff, but it also doesn't feel as if he's done anything any worse than what Rick and his team have done"
December 3, 2012 at 3:01AM ESTI stopped there.
Punky Ok, yes--Rick has done a few things that in the pre-ZA world would be morally questionable. But I have a hard time believing that he would do make a woman take off her clothes and threaten to rape her in order to get information from her. Yes, the show's writing is sophisticated enough to not give us a 1-dimensional bad-guy, but I think this chunk of episodes was really giving us some backstory for the Governor & he'll be all-out evil going forward.
December 3, 2012 at 7:59AM ESTvelocityknown @Josh-You've actually touched on my program, the show actually had Michonne kill someone that we know was valuable to The Governor. We've had two great scenes with her, we get their connection. The Governor was ready to kill Glenn and Maggie, but he never did and I never felt likt it was something that would really happen. That's the problem. Because of that, Michonne feels like the worse character in that fight.
December 3, 2012 at 9:26AM EST@Punky-No, Rick, nor anyone in the group, would do that, but the problem is the middle ground that The Governor is occupying right now. He's only killed people we don't care about and his reasons for wanting to kill Michonne are similar to the one's why the group was ready to execute their farm stranger last year. Because of that, his threat to rape Maggie doesn't feel like a real threat and the show is clearly too scared to have him go through with something like that. Which makes him this villain without claws. I think the show has made him a good character, just not in the way they intended.
Basically, that's why I said it doesn't FEEL as if he's done anything worse than Rick's group because it really doesn't. On paper, yes, it's worse, but in the moment I forget that The Governor has done many bad things at all because the bad things he does are to people that don't matter or things that he doesn't actually follow through on.
Michael Dowling "he's done some kind of bad stuff, but it also doesn't feel as if he's done anything any worse than what Rick and his team have done."
December 3, 2012 at 10:37AM ESTHe murdered in cold blood probably 15 living army personnel, beat and threatened to rape Glenn and Maggie and was going to throw her in the "screaming pits" (doesn't sound good). I can't think of anything Rick did on par with this.
Bob Zombie @velocityknown: You've been beating this drum about the Governor all along and I gotta admit, at least you're consistent. But considering everything we know and have seen the governor do, you come off pretty bad trying to defend like this.
December 3, 2012 at 1:35PM ESTvelocityknown Sigh, like I said, obviously The Governor is a more evil character than Rick, but with the way the show has built him, it doesn't FEEL as if he is worse. In the moment where he's fighting Michonne, I don't think, "Yes, kill this guy because he's a bad person." I just think, "Wow she killed his daughter, that's messed up." Because the show took the time to develop the relationship between The Governor and his zombie daughter but took no time to make him a legitimate villain because they don't want to raise the stakes enough to have him actually do something.
December 3, 2012 at 2:55PM ESTKilling Army personnel? Bad, yes. Do I hardly remember it since we knew nobody in that group? Yes.
Threatening to rape Maggie? Bad, yes. Does it make him seem like a worse villain. Not really because the show didn't have the confidence to make him do anything actually horrible to anyone we know.
Spoilers for Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, and Homeland are about to follow so careful about how you proceed if you haven't caught up:
Gus Fring in Breaking Bad: Tried to have someone we'd known for 2+ seasons (Hank) killed and then slit someone's throat with a box cutter just to make a point.
Joeffrey Lannister in GoT: Had Ned Stark killed
Abu Nazir in Homeland: Tortured one of our main characters and manipulated him into trying to blow himself up with dozens of other people.
Those are examples of shows having their villains do things that directly affect characters we care about and therefore making them seem like villains instead of just people. If Gus had just said, "Hey I'm going to kill Hank" and then didn't even try, he probably wouldn't be that intimidating.
They've done a good job with Merle. Because Merle beat the hell out of Glenn and I believed that he would kill him since he put him in a situation where he could be killed. The Governor hasn't go his hands dirty with anyone we care about and, honestly, he's doing pretty well by the people in Woodbury. Therefore, the show has not done a good job of making him a villain even though they clearly want us to see him as one and when he's battling it out with Michonne, I don't feel as if he's that bad of a character even though I know on paper he is and that's because of how they've handled him thus far. And that is a problem the show needs to correct.
dsl At this point, I'm choosing to see The Governor (and Woodbury) as a sort of evolutionary version of Rick and his group (and the prison). Please note that I'm not saying 'better', just evolved (for better and worse).
December 3, 2012 at 5:17PM ESTIf we think of it as an evolutionary timeline, it would look like this: Cutty's group.....Rick's group...The Governor's group.
- Cutty's group are still running from zombies
- Grimes' group are established and have reduced the zombie threat. Now humans are their biggest problem
- Woodbury has been long-since established as zombie free and the people are fully aware of human threats and have started eliminating them. They are trying to return to a version of 'normal' and willing to accept the vision of one man.
I'm not sure what's at the end of this timeline, but hope that's where the story goes.
In this context, The Governor is only 'terrible' if you see his group's actions as excessive in this environment. He doesn't necessarily have to be 'terrible' to everyone. He really only needs to be seen as a threat to the Grimes group. I think the writers have been successful in showing that threat.
SlackerInc You are entitled to your feelings. If The Governor doesn't "feel" super evil to you, then he just doesn't. But I'll just say that he has "felt" very evil to me all along, even before he killed the army dudes.
December 3, 2012 at 10:05PM ESTrobert zombie Based on what the people of Woodbury know, the Governor is a good guy. Based on what we know, I'd never trust that guy. Rick's people would come back to get me, the Governor's goons would leave me to die.
December 4, 2012 at 4:01PM ESTAlso, knowing what we know if I were trapped in the zombie apocalypse with some of you I'd just shoot you in the face. Anyone who thinks the Governor is justified seems to arguing "anything goes." So better you than me.
SlackerInc Ha, great point Robert!
December 4, 2012 at 4:10PM ESTbbq_hax0r Good comments, Velocity. I've been making that point all season.
December 4, 2012 at 6:17PM ESTThere are far too many parallels between Rick and the Governor, except the Governor has protected more people for longer and given his people a better life than Rick. Basically he's been more successful. But let's excuse all of Ricks deplorable behaviors and loath the Governor b/c lazy writers want us to.
James
December 3, 2012 at 12:14AM EST Reply to CommentWrite a comment...It is so stupid that a man as large as the governor has trouble dispatching petite Michone with his hands, especially after banging her head against the wall several times and smashing the fishtank glass with her head. Maybe she was high on pcp? Stupid.
Icey The Governor has a team of men at his disposal and doesnt really have a need to get his hands dirty = His fighting skills are not up to par. Michonne has been out in the real world surviving/fighting/leveling up (lol)
December 3, 2012 at 8:28AM ESTRonald
December 3, 2012 at 12:19AM EST Reply to CommentI don’t know why Alan is so hard on shows like Son’s of Anarchy, but cannot seem to pick up on the glaring inconsistencies of this show, that everyone else seems to pick up on. Strongest season yet? Come on, we have a main character who’s primary job is to scowl. Maybe its his personal beef with Sutter?
sepinwall 1. I have no beef with Kurt Sutter, personal or otherwise.
December 3, 2012 at 12:29AM EST2. This has been the most consistent season of the show, even with Michonne (whom I've complained about for weeks and weeks). Season 1 is a mess, despite that great pilot and some good episodes at the very end, and barely even works as a block of episodes. And season 2 had all kinds of pacing problems as we hung out at the farm. Season 3 has issues as well, but it clearly knows the story it wants to tell, and has been playing to the show's strengths (atmosphere, tension, action and letting Andrew Lincoln freak the hell out).
STRINGER CELL Its because Sons of Anarchy is truly and utterly an unfortunate case of great potential squandered by stupid/stupid characterizations and an overly contrived plot. U mentioned Michonne as a sorepoint. in SOA its like Gemma, Clay, Juice, Jax, TIg, Piney, Gemma, Gemma, Gemma, not to make this about SOA or anything just stating what should be pretty obvious.
December 3, 2012 at 6:35AM ESTjack Sons of Anarchy is a soap opera, and a fairly mediocre one at that. It's still entertaining to watch as pure pulp TV, but it has zero thematic value and little or nothing to say about anything. Sepinwall has been really clear on his issues and the inconsistencies of this series from day one, but I'm assuming he's continuing to review this show because it's unlike anything else on TV and it's the highest rated drama on any network right now.
December 3, 2012 at 1:39PM ESTSlackerInc Unlike the OP, I don't carry water for Sons of Anarchy, but I do disagree with Alan that "this eight-episode chunk of season 3 has been the strongest sustained period 'The Walking Dead' has ever put together." I also disagree with him that Season 1 had "some good episodes at the end": the CDC eps were among the cheesiest of the whole series.
December 3, 2012 at 10:22PM ESTIf I had to pick the best bloc of eight eps in a row, I'd overlap with Alan slightly and pick the last six of Season 2 (starting with the excellent "Nebraska"), wrapping around to the first two of this season, before we started spending time in Woodbury, which has been pretty consistenly lame. Or if we are limited to a a bloc that aired within one season, I'd tack on the two episodes before "Nebraska" instead.
dbmurph22 Slacker, I'm with you. I understand that as a whole, Season 2 might have bogged down in certain tedium, but when it came alive, it was much better. I also like early Season 1. Nebraska was one of the best episodes and the bar scene showed how great this series could be (which is maddening). That ending stretch in S2 was pretty strong, starting with "Pretty Much Dead Already", "Nebraska" "18 Miles Out" etc. The first couple of episodes were decent too. The season just had better moments even not looking at it on an episode by episode basis (like the end of "Save the Last One"). The opens were always very interesting as well (feeding the barn walkers, etc).
December 4, 2012 at 4:29AM ESTI mean I was frustrated with their failure in some of the character to character drama - lots of rehashing the same discussions. A lot of characters cried over the same things. And the plot progressed slowly. But it was definitely more weighty and real than this season. I don't find too many people with me on this.
I've enjoyed Season 3 mostly, but I've had to accept that it has sort of of given in to have a more immediate appeal. Besides a few moments, it feels lighter and it’s not as authentic. It’s definitely more comic-y. Some of this stuff still feels it has a package and price tag still on. I mean, it can be pretty fun and all, but it has never really grabbed me. Many say that’s what this series is supposed to be – if they try to go deeper, they will fail again. Well, it’s not impossible. I like depth, so sue me. Even in a survivalist zombie series, which I think can happen. It can happen with anything. I agree with Alan that human v human as opposed to near constant human v zombie is more interesting (like the end of Nebraska)…but I still want to see good human v human. Could have been better.
But I guess I’ve still had a good time watching it and I still find things I like. And I'm interested enough to see what happens from here.
This finale was like Season 3 overall for me – pretty good, but not wholly satisfying and it’s not even giving me an inkling that it could become that. Still that doesn’t mean there’s nothing I found good. Glen and Carol’s development (in very limited time) has been a plus. Andrea is just awful, though. I enjoyed the scenes with the new group, which is probably the most similar set of people the group has seen in the series - which was interesting to us. I found the raid and street firefight in Woodbury not very believable. I don't think it was done that well.
Thanks for listening to my TL;DR post, everyone.
SlackerInc Murph, looks like we really do share a similar outlook on the series (not shared by most people, at least those who comment online). I do think that the "comic-y" stuff has mostly been the fault of the Governor/Woodbury/Michonne elements, and that the portions of the show at the prison have been a lot better (with the exception of the phone thing, which I thought was a bit cheesy).
December 4, 2012 at 11:17AM ESTI do like the new characters, although I don't understand why they don't have guns or vehicles.
dbmurph22 Yes, Woodbury/Gov/Mich has been the main reasons. I understand that Rick's crew are stone cold zombie killas now but some of that prison killin' was a bit much - especially Rick's mission of justice.
December 5, 2012 at 3:55AM ESTI liked that fact that the didn't have guns or vehicles. I'm guessing they have some unique reason why and at it's it bodes to be unique, not copycat.
I've read other reviews that this season feels "smaller." I agree with that. Even with the interactions with the humans it has in a way felt like a small college with two campuses. To contrast, the human involvement in Season 2 seemed to make the world beyond the group larger in an exciting way.
dbmurph22 Yikes, wish this forum had an edit function. A bit late here.
December 5, 2012 at 3:56AM ESTFroide
December 3, 2012 at 12:21AM EST Reply to CommentKudos to us, for making some good calls: there are other groups of humans out there who'll interact with Rick's group, Merle and Daryl will be pitted against each other, and Oscar was wearing the red shirt.
jennyh
December 3, 2012 at 12:21AM EST Reply to Comment(Alan, I think there's a typo in that sentence about the Merle/Daryl dream sequence. I'm pretty sure that was in season 2, while Daryl was on the Search for Sophia.)
Tom
December 3, 2012 at 12:26AM EST Reply to CommentThe writing is incredibly bad, making characters stupid just for the sake of advancing the plotline. Why in the world would the governor and his henchmen allow his two prisoners to remain unsecured, with a chance to escape? And this after finding Glenn freed from his bondage and killing the zombie? So, let me see the line of thinking for the governor and his people. Glenn, our prisoner, escapes from his shackles, then kills the zombie we left behind in the room with him, so he’s dangerous, right? But no, let’s throw him and his girl in a room, unguarded and unshackled. You know what is going to happen next. Yet Rick quickly zip ties his prisoner. Such poor, stupid writing.
SlackerInc Yeah, good point. I hadn't really thought of that but you are right.
December 3, 2012 at 10:23PM ESTEarl
December 3, 2012 at 12:29AM EST Reply to CommentLet me see – guards have the high ground on top of the bus, shooting at invaders on the ground, but yet, all guards get shot, with the invaders unscathed. And don’t tell me it’s the smoke, because Rick and crew seemed to have good aim even through the smokescreen.
mgrabois I thought it was because all the guards were back-lit, presenting easy targets, while Rick's group was on the ground under cover of foliage plus the smoke that was front-lit by the lights.
December 3, 2012 at 1:34AM ESTMichael Dowling I took the girl with terrible bow skills as foreshadowing to how inept the governors army was. Unskilled. Ricks group were all trained on how to shoot by Rick and Shane for a long time on Herschel's farm.
December 3, 2012 at 10:40AM ESTjack @Michael: That would be plausible if we hadn't already seen the Governor's group sneak into a national guard group's perimeter and proceed to kill them all before a single Guardsman was able to return fire. Granted, the National Guard doesn't have the training or experience of your average Marine or Army private, but considering most Guardsmen have rotated through one of our two wars in the last ten years you'd think they'd put up a decent defense against a bunch of militia-types.
December 3, 2012 at 1:44PM ESTThat whole fire fight was sort of silly, but at the smoke made it mildly plausible.
Mark in Omaha Wasn't the "smoke" supposed to be tear gas? Funny no one was coughing, even Rick's group walked through a cloud of it with no ill effects.
December 3, 2012 at 3:11PM ESTMichael Dowling @Jack - I commented how the Governor taking out that squad that easily was ridiculous. But those were at least the guys with the governor, not the guys on the wall the OP referenced.
December 3, 2012 at 3:28PM EST@Mark - no that was just a smoke grenade, they have those in the military for different purposes, screen cover, helicopter to locate you etc... Why would they throw out tear gas with no gas masks?
Mark in Omaha When they found them in the prison, I thought Rick said they had flash grenades and tear gas (makes sense to have those in a prison) and he wondered if they would work on the walkers. I realize the effect it had was just a smoke screen, but that it was "supposed" to be tear gas. I know it's only a small "mistake".
December 3, 2012 at 4:59PM ESTJim
December 3, 2012 at 12:47AM EST Reply to CommentThe governor sent Merle and a whole party to kill her. I think she just really wanted revenge against the guy who brainwashed her only companion AND tried to have her killed after she left
jIm
December 3, 2012 at 12:48AM EST Reply to CommentI think Michonne wanted revenge on the man who brainwashed her only companion AND tried to have her killed after she already left. PRetty Simple.
JasonR
December 3, 2012 at 12:50AM EST Reply to CommentI didn't think the Governor was assuming that Merle was a traitor. I am sure he blames Merle for getting them into this predicament by bringing Maggie and Glenn to Woodbury, but turning Merle into a scapegoat was a deliberate move to take the heat off himself.
Other Scott And Bingo was his name-o.
December 3, 2012 at 1:06AM ESTFat Turtle
December 3, 2012 at 1:17AM ESTMerle told The Governor that he killed Michonne, so the Governor has legitimate reason to see him as a traitor.
Here's the problem with the "traitor" theory. Why did Merle bring Glen & Maggie to Woodbury in the first place if he was only going to help break them out a few days later? That act alone, plus Glenn's face, tell the Governor all he needs to know about Merle's loyalties.
December 3, 2012 at 10:20AM ESTAll the lie of about Michonne did was show the Governor that Merle cares more about himself than the cause, and that's enough to devalue him and make him a good scapegoat to appease the mob.
Pennywise @Jess We can't assume the Governor is thinking rationally here. He wants a scapegoat, he's got a ready-made one in Merle. Enough of the pieces fit together to make it easy for him to assume that Merle is the culprit. Methinks Andrea had best watch her back next. Because I'm sure she won't be getting off easy either given her ties to the prison crew and her unwillingness to obey the Governor's orders.
December 3, 2012 at 12:26PM ESTjack I don't believe the Governor actually suspects Merle. He's just angry that Merle lied about Michonne, allowing her to attack him and kill his zombie daughter. And he's smart enough to know that the easiest way to quell an angry mob is to throw them some red meat, hence Merle is the explanation for how this group defeated Woodbury's defenses and successfully attacked them.
December 3, 2012 at 1:47PM ESTLarryC We don't exactly know the Governor's thinking, but there's no reason he has to have 'proof beyond reasonable doubt', or be irrational, in order to accuse Merle of being an outright spy for 'the terrorists'.
December 3, 2012 at 4:28PM ESTIt's been solidly proven to him that Merle isn't trustworthy (his claim to have killed Michonne). And it's a reasonable (and accurate) inference that Merle has been acting in part to try to reunite with his brother, not thinking only of his duty to the Governor and Woodbury, whatever the actual details.
The Governor does need a scapegoat, it's in fact risky for him to rely any further on Merle, and you can't just have security escort someone out of the building when you fire them as your chief henchman in a zombie apocalypse. Maybe the governor has lost (more) marbles over the Michonne attack, but accusing Merle fits with his previous actions as mainly rational but amoral leader.
Mike K I think the setup is easy to spot here. Governor is going to let Merle & Dale go, Dale takes Merle back to prison, Merle screws them over bc it was all a setup and that scene in was fake. Governor knows Merle didn't betray him. Merle is his best way to take the prison back.
December 3, 2012 at 7:14PM ESTSlackerInc Mike, I think that would be too tortured and unreasonably twisty for even this show.
December 3, 2012 at 10:31PM ESTI think it's more straightforward: Merle lied about killing Michonne, then Michonne shows up with Daryl, and it looks pretty fishy.
bbq_hax0r He needed a scapegoat, couple that with Merle's potentially questionable loyalties (Governor or brother) and the fact he lied about Michonne, it's an easy one.
December 4, 2012 at 6:25PM ESTEvery leader need's a scapegoat. The good, the bad, and the awful.
srpad
December 3, 2012 at 1:01AM EST Reply to CommentHow in the world did I miss that he was seeing Shane's face? I have been rewatching the earlier seasons yet...
Mark in Omaha Me too. Not until I saw the Talking Dead and they brought it up about the actor playing Shane had to have a beard for another show he's doing. No clue that was Shane, I could tell he was supposed to remind Rick of someone, I was thinking it was supposed to be a version of himself or something. All of that aside, Shane would have totally bought into the Woodbury scenario.
December 3, 2012 at 12:01PM ESTFroide
December 3, 2012 at 1:05AM EST Reply to CommentAnyone know why the back of the prison (where Tyrese's group entered) seems to have been blown up? I dozed off a few times and wonder if that were explained.
Bryan L I wondered that myself. And why hasn't the group secured that hole in the fence? Seems like walking the perimeter and securing holes would be job one, particularly after the debacle with the escaped prisoner, Andrew.
December 3, 2012 at 9:43AM ESTConsideract No explanation. What was haunting was the clear point that they feel relatively safe, but they still don't actually know their territory, that they still have this huge vulnerability without knowing it. On top of everything else.
December 3, 2012 at 11:43AM ESTMark in Omaha No explanation, I didn't realize it was the prison until watching the beginning again (missed the first minute or so. I was wondering if the whole thing was a flashback at first, the group seemed very unprepared for hand to hand. Looked like some of the timbers had been burnt, maybe a fire? I keep saying it, but NO ONE in the show's universe knows how to set up a decent perimeter, not even the military. You think they would have sent someone to walk all the way around the fence by now. Hey guys, there's a HUGE hole in the fence on the back side, we better do something about it.
December 3, 2012 at 12:07PM ESTCol Bat Guano Not checking the perimeter fence is one of those writing errors that the show had cut down on since last season.
December 3, 2012 at 12:34PM ESTZoranB A possible explanation is that access to that broken portion of the prison is cut off from the inside via locked doors so there's no way for zombies to get in.
December 3, 2012 at 11:33PM ESTGarySF
December 3, 2012 at 1:14AM EST Reply to CommentGood review, Alan. I wasn't sure why I was enjoying this half-season so much, but you summed it up in a nutshell -- humans vs. humans is far more interesting.
This was still a somewhat aggravating episode, despite its strong points. Others have covered how awful Michonne is being written. The worst was when she killed Penny for no apparent reason other than to piss off the governor. Guess she was looking for a messy fight.
The glass through the eye was gruesome, but it looked like it would've penetrated much further. I'd expect the governor would be laid up for awhile after that one, at least with a killer migraine, not addressing his people with a simple patch over the eye (although the blood stain on the patch later on was a good touch that added some realism).
And on another note, if you're Merle and you have a blade for a right hand, how hard can it be to kill someone like Glenn during a scruff?
And I think the convict with Rick's group is just being horny. A 17-year-old girl isn't too off-limits in a lawless world. And they painted him as a bit charming in the ensuing conversation with Carol.
mgrabois Michonne didn't kill Penny for no reason - Penny is a walker, and Michonne kills walkers.
December 3, 2012 at 1:36AM ESTMinmin I'm pretty sure that they removed the blade from his arm. (Not positive, but they showed the Gov's men approaching him, and then walking away with a blade. It could have been a knife, but I assumed it was his hand-blade.
December 3, 2012 at 6:39AM ESTWes
December 3, 2012 at 1:22AM EST Reply to CommentI’m sick of Michone’s stupid scowls.
Pauly
December 3, 2012 at 1:23AM EST Reply to CommentI don’t know, as much as they tried to establish the governor as some psychopath, I have a hard time hating him. But for some reason, I really hate Michone. I don’t know what it is.
Bob
December 3, 2012 at 1:33AM EST Reply to CommentI’m really tired of dumb, poorly written characters and scenarios. Why oh why does the governor not shoot Michone on sight, when her body is fully exposed and she is not looking, instead of saying “Stop” or whatever he said. You’re going to tell me that he could have peeled off a couple of rounds, dropping her, as good as he is with guns, as evidenced by the national guard ambush. And even when Michone had Penny hostage, Penny is a good few feet shorter than Michone, which exposed her upper torso and head. Again, he could have taken a head shot. No way would she have reacted in a split second. For goodness sake, she’s holding a damn sword. He’s got a gun, trained on her. And he drops his weapon? Nonsense, utter nonsense.
mgrabois The Gov was overcome by his love for his daughter to think straight. He wanted to find a cure so he could revive her, and he put down his weapon rather than have Michonnne cause her harm.
December 3, 2012 at 1:38AM ESTJeremiah Convenient excuse - "he couldn't think straight, so he didn't react." So, if you see someone holding your loved one from behind, and you have a gun, you won't immediately react and drop them, because you're so "overcome" with love. Ridiculous.
December 3, 2012 at 1:46AM ESTMark in Omaha Same thing with Maggie, she's had Merle in her sights TWICE, and never pulled the trigger. Even after she's been violated, Glenn's had a gun put to his head, Merle beat the crap out him, and tried to kill him with a zombie. Common situation in any show, not just this one. The good guy can't just shoot the bad guy no matter how much the desevere it.
December 3, 2012 at 12:12PM ESTCol Bat Guano There were about four instances where the bad guys were let go when the best course would have been to shoot them. Just ridiculous.
December 3, 2012 at 12:36PM ESTSlackerInc Valid points.
December 3, 2012 at 10:35PM ESTTommy
December 3, 2012 at 1:36AM EST Reply to CommentWas anyone else hoping that Michone would commit an act of hara-kiri on herself, while she was sitting on the floor?
Captain Zoonga
December 3, 2012 at 1:37AM EST Reply to CommentI loved this mid-season finale.
There is one thing that irks me a bit...why has it never been shown before that the prison has a ridiculously gaping security hole? A knocked down fence with a building that has apparently been blown up?
Walkers can clamber over that fence. Intruders, clearly, can easily exploit it.
Why has that not been shown before, and why would the characters have not worked on attempting to secure that gap?
It's a minor little issue I suppose but it kind of irked me.
Again though, I did love this mid-season finale. Can't wait for February.
Froide I posted about that above. Don't think it's a minor issue at all; rather, it makes the prison far less than secure, and introduces another salient but unexplained plot point. I'll bet Andrew knew about that hole, though.
December 3, 2012 at 1:49AM ESTRobin So, Froide, you are saying that no one saw that huge hole, which seems to lead directly to the groups cell block location? I understand rationalizing for your favorite show, but come on, this is beyond unbelievable.
December 3, 2012 at 2:02AM ESTMinmin At first I thought that Tyrese's group was heading into the nursing home of the first season. But yes, big gaping plot point. Just like the hole.
December 3, 2012 at 6:41AM ESTFroide ROBIN, methinks you misread my two posts about the hole; thanks for giving me a chance to address that misunderstanding. If you'll reread my posts, you'll see - like Capt. Zoonga, I'm irked that I never before saw or heard of what you aptly termed, "that huge hole, which seems to lead directly to the groups [sic] cell block location". In my first post about it (somehwere above), I inquired whether or not anyone else had heard mention of or an explanation for it. Then I wrote in this thread (albeit in other words than the following) that overlooking mention of/explanation for it is a huge deal (in a sloppy writing sort of way). So, no, I'm not "rationalizing" the writers' handling of the hole (far from it). Also, by the way, TWD is not my favorite show ('though I do enjoy it). Cheers.
December 3, 2012 at 6:41AM ESTIcey I believe that they only cleared out one cell block (Cell block C i think). The hole was near Cell block B (would have to rewatch the episode to see which cell block the hole was near). But you knew there was something going on because walkers kept showing up in the prison hallways. I think they just have too many other things going on to get to the bottom of that...
December 3, 2012 at 8:31AM ESTnotWalt ICEY - I agree. The prison is a very big place and they have secured a portion at a time. They really haven't been there very long.
December 3, 2012 at 9:04AM ESTCol Bat Guano I think they have had plenty of time to check the perimeter fence of the prison. You certainly don't want to be clearing the outside portion of the compound without knowing if every possible entrance has been blocked.
December 3, 2012 at 2:55PM ESTElwood Axel mentioned the wall being down a few weeks ago. It was the reason he gave for not being able to burn the bodies as T-Dog suggested, making it too creepy for them to stay in Cell Block B or whatever, and why there have been civilian walkers as well as prisoners in some parts of the prison. I don't see it as a plot hole because it was mentioned well in advance, but it does let us know that the prison is far less secure from human incursion than it is from walkers. If Tyreese could get in undetected, so could a crew from Woodbury.
December 3, 2012 at 4:06PM ESTSlackerInc I will actually stick up for this one. I don't believe when you cross that fence that you can get into the fence area they have cleared. And you also can't get from the area of the prison that the hole in the wall takes you to (the "catacombs" or something like that, I think Herschel called it) to the cell blocks our heroes live in, unless you have keys (and hopefully our gang has gathered up all of those that were lying around). So in a sense this makes them no more insecure than it does for a townhouse dweller to not be able to keep the neighbours from getting into their dwelling, which is part of the same structure but separated by a wall.
December 3, 2012 at 10:42PM ESTTommy
December 3, 2012 at 1:39AM EST Reply to CommentAm I a bad person, because I actually rooted for the governor as he was kicking Michone’s behind? I’m sorry but I enjoyed that part.
mgrabois
December 3, 2012 at 1:42AM EST Reply to CommentTwo things...
1. Until I heard last week that Tyreese was coming in this week, I thought that T-Dog WAS Tyreese. It fits, since each was with their resepctive comic/TV group since the beginning. And T-Dog could certainly have been a nickname for Tyreese.
2. It looked to me like Penny was distracted by the music playing from the boombox, and I think the Governor thought that she might have recognized it despite the fact that the doctor's experiment showed no post-mortem memory retention. I bet that's why the Gov was willing to drop his weapon when he saw that she was being held by Michonne, that maybe there was a chance that his little girl was still in there.
Minmin Indeed she seemed to calm down momentarily. But he also had a bowl of something red. Was it a bowl of just harvested guts for his little darling? I thought that was the reason why the governor's reaction quickly changed from wonderment to anger and disgust, as he quickly rebound her and locked her away.
December 3, 2012 at 6:43AM ESTblackcoffee She "calmed down" because she smelled the meat bowl. The next time we see her, there is blood on her face. Ah, Penny...we hardly knew ye.
December 3, 2012 at 11:39AM EST- 1
- 2
- 3
Next 283 Comments