Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 173
Dan and Alan talk 'Bates Motel,' 'Veronica Mars,' 'Top of the Lake' and more
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Happy Monday, Boys & Girls.
Time for another installment of The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast.
We went a little short last week, due to a total absence of new programming to review. But this week? Lots of new stuff. We've got reviews of "Top of the Lake" and "Bates Motel," which both premiere tonight. We also review HBO's upcoming Phil Spector movie.
We talk for a while about the "Veronica Mars" Kickstarter triumph.
And we also discussed the finale of HBO's "Girls."
Next week? Lots more new stuff!
Here's the breakdown:
"Top of the Lake" (00:00:50 - 00:13:40)
"Bates Motel" (00:13:40 - 00:27:20)
"Phil Spector" (00:27:20 - 00:39:50)
"Veronica Mars" Kickstarter (00:39:50 - 01:04:20)
"Girls" finale (01:04:55 - 01:24:00)
the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]
And as always, feel free to e-mail us questions for the podcast.
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
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March 18, 2013 at 8:19PM EST Reply to CommentMy dream kickstarter would have been brisco county, but with julius carry's death, better to hope it could come back as a comic book.
ideemo
March 18, 2013 at 9:25PM EST Reply to CommentThanks for answering my email! And by the way, I didn't mean to suggest that it would be unethical for either of you to give money to a kickstarter campaign; I don't think it's unethical either. I was just wondering what you thought.
dan IDeemo - It's a completely valid question/consideration and one worth discussion, as we did. Thanks for asking it...
March 19, 2013 at 1:17AM EST-Daniel
filaphresh
March 18, 2013 at 10:07PM EST Reply to CommentIf VM becomes a model (and they truly follow what VM did) I don't see much of a problem for the fans because the donations do seem to be barely more than you would pay in a store for the rewards. It's essentially moving the digital/blu-ray sales to the pre-production phase.
erika_herzog
March 19, 2013 at 12:09AM EST Reply to Commenti'm so glad to hear the "unseemly" discussion here regarding the Kickstarter campaign. and for comparing this to what Louis CK does -- which seems so much more "seemly." it's a smart contrast / clarification. loved that.
i love Kristin Bell and a lot of the people from the VERONICA MARS family but honestly let the freaking TV show die. TV shows end all the time -- do we really need a VERONICA MARS movie? it seems very jive. and unnecessary.
as far as having a Kickstarter for other movies i'm sort of sick and over this crowdsource paying model. at a time when working people have less money and more people are unemployed / underemployed / underpaid, yadda yadda, etc. (including myself, it's too close to the bone obvs) -- this whole Kickstarter VM thing chaps my ass.
these freaking huge multinational corporations that produce audio and video are totally stupid and self-sabotaging in their business models and their regard for their audiences. i don't think they deserve a bail out or lift up by us working people. it's just really rude and obnoxious.
i support musicians who do Kickstarter sometimes. but these are bands that are touring the country in a van and can barely make gas money. it's a whole other ball of wax than rich working movie people.
/rant
dwexley I'm actually really glad this "unseemly," Veronica Mars Kickstarter has taken the shape in that way that it did. I donated because I wanted more VM. I loved the show, I'm willing to pay for more of the show. This was a way for fans to show WB that there is an audience for the show. It's just not a big enough audience to matter under their business model. I agree it's ridiculous that WB is actually taking the fans money (Bell has pocket change that could finance the movie) but it's the only way these fans have to get more of what they want from the giant corporation. WB already decided they weren't interested in the Veronica Mars business. The fans of the show aren't "bailing out," WB because WB were never going to make this movie in the first place... unless the fans literally vote with the only thing corporations care about: Cash.
March 19, 2013 at 1:26PM ESTIt's not going to happen quickly but I really do believe that this "pay for play," set up is the future of entertainment. WB prices digital downloads of past VM seasons for roughly between $40-50. So the logical question becomes are there 2-3 million people that think another season of Veronica Mars is worth $40-50?
10... no, 5 years from now this his how shows will get "picked up," for more episodes. People voting with their wallets, not some random sampling from Nielsen boxes. The infrastructure and delivery methods are already there. The studios will figure out a way to incorporate additional advertising/revenue stream with direct downloads.
March 19, 2013 at 1:39PM ESTactually i think you hit the problem on the head. the infrastructure and delivery methods are the problems. and of course the evil c-word.....
Alan and/or Dan can speak much more eloquently towards this i am sure, but i have to say that as a fan of movies and TV i blame Canada uh the movie and film industries for this mess. i hope the long-tail starts to work out some creative solutions, but i think Kickstarter / crowdsourcing like this is not the best method.
dwexley Erika,
March 19, 2013 at 3:28PM ESTI'm not talking about kickstarter/crowdsourcing, I'm talking about on-demand replacing the broadcast model. It's not ridiculous for people to pay for their entertainment. Millions of people already pay cable companies hundreds per month to have access to the content they like. I just imagine a future where the content we watch is determined more directly by the consumer. Rather than being determined by what content is the cheapest and most profitable for bloated, lumbering corporations.
10 years ago the same could've been said about paying $400-500 dollars for a phone that's actually a handheld computer. Nobody's going to buy that.) As of right now, if I want instant access to the TV show of my choosing commercial free it's going to cost in the neighborhood of $25-50 for a full season. For some people that's the only way they get the stuff. That audience is only going to grow, not shrink. There's an entire generation growing up with only HD, network-enabled entertainment devices. My son has no concept of sitting through commercials. The transition is already happening around the industry.
So wait "cash," is evil?
March 19, 2013 at 4:00PM ESTwhile i somewhat agree that it would be great to not have to pay for 700 channels while you only really want 20, there are some benefits to paying for a full lineup -- like community channels and public tv (i think). i recently pushed my cable package down to the barest of minimums and am grateful for the public TV, the CUNY-TV, and the CSPAN even... in addition to the major channels.
i think you are still talking about the delivery model. and the chronic, long-standing problems therein. i'm not disagreeing with you but the delivery -- whether it is cable or optic or satellite -- is still the clog / issue. the pipe is the problem.
agree audiences are growing, but the long tail effect is also growing, which will hopefully monetize the creators a bit more than these distributors / copyright hoarders. i hope licensing helps -- and by licensing i mean creative commons licensing, or its model. but moving away from the current model, hopefully.
cash is evil? no. i think you didn't understand my snarky reference to the evil c-word. i'm a fledgling librarian -- it's all about copyright, baby!
and copyright does not necessarily mean ownership. i wish people would talk about ownership and licensing in different ways, and not just assume that copyright conveys absolute control. i hate that word. yes, i'm splitting hairs and becoming less coherent....
/rant
Cabo
March 19, 2013 at 1:23AM EST Reply to CommentThat was a great, great, great discussion of Girls. Every single thing Dan made me smile.
Cabo Correction: Every single thing Dan said made me smile.
March 19, 2013 at 1:24AM ESTjay
March 19, 2013 at 2:52PM EST Reply to CommentOMG, you guys should talk about accents more. It's really fascinating. Wait, this just in, no one cares or notices these things. Except for you two, who are obsessed by it.
March 19, 2013 at 4:02PM ESTto me accents has more to do with casting. but to hear tell that the fabulous Helen Mirren is chomping on a bad accent, well i guess there is nothing perfect.
dan Jay - I'm relieved that in your life, you have ZERO pet peeves that people who know you think that you sometimes harp on. I'm actually more "envious" than "relieved." The problem with doing what Alan and I do is that we spend a lot of time picking at the scabs of our pet peeves. I'm sure it's as frustrating for me as it is for you.
March 19, 2013 at 7:03PM EST-Daniel
mcm99 I find accents very interesting. I appreciate that you guys talk about it. My favorite terrible accent was Joseph Fiennes in Flash Forward. A very charismatic actor with his British accent whose charisma completely vanished when he played American.
March 19, 2013 at 8:19PM ESTLana
March 19, 2013 at 3:11PM EST Reply to CommentCome on Dan, but Beauty and the Beast has a People's choice award! The people love it!
Bill
March 19, 2013 at 8:58PM EST Reply to CommentDan, why you gotta be such a Debby Downer on this Kickstarter business. If people want more of a show and are willing to pay for it, what's so bad about that? Yes, maybe it's a bit unseemly for the studio to profit off of something they've put no money into, but let's cross that bridge when we get to it. Because outside of Veronica Mars's tiny dedicated fan base, how many people do you really think are going to see this movie?
dan Bill - I gave my opinion. I defended it thoroughly. I said what was so problematic about it in long, rambling monologues. Those things were I said what I thought was "unseemly" or "icky" about it? Those are the things I think are bad about it. It's only my opinion, but... that's what there. And I have to be a "Debby Downer" because apparently I have a different opinion from yours. Sorry 'bout that!
March 19, 2013 at 9:06PM EST-Daniel
Bill We disagree, fair enough. But to be clear, I wasn't calling you a Debby Downer to suggest that your opinion was invalid. I just like calling people Debby Downer.
March 19, 2013 at 9:38PM ESTdan Bill - And I *am* a Debby Downer about many things. If I had charm, that would be part of it. Otherwise, it merely pays the bills...
March 19, 2013 at 9:56PM EST-Daniel
Joel
March 21, 2013 at 6:48AM EST Reply to Commentim from Australia and i remember reading that ABC (Australian broadcasting company) pulled out because they wanted an aussie in Elizabeth's role as the role called for an autralian accent and to me it sounded like she was doing an Australian accent so weather im confused or you guys are im not sure.
Joel
March 21, 2013 at 6:48AM EST Reply to Commentim from Australia and i remember reading that ABC (Australian broadcasting company) pulled out because they wanted an aussie in Elizabeth's role as the role called for an autralian accent and to me it sounded like she was doing an Australian accent so weather im confused or you guys are im not sure .