Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 159
Dan and Alan talk 'Walking Dead,' 'Boardwalk Empire' and 'Boy Meets World'
Happy Monday, Boys & Girls.
Not much is new this week, but it's still a busy week on The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast. In addition to reviewing a new 30 For 30 doc, talking about the finales of "The Walking Dead" and "Boardwalk Empire" and unpacking a frustrating episode of "Homeland," we also answered four pieces of Listener Mail, including our much-anticipated discussion of "Girl Meets World." You're welcome!
Oh and as we mentioned in the podcast, this week's opening music is "Tell Me," the first song on the new album by Numbers and Letters, fronted by HitFix's Katie Hasty. Woot! Download the song here.
And here's today's breakdown:
"You Don't Know Bo" (00:01:15 - 00:10:10)
Listener Mail - Young performers and the Emmys (00:10:30 - 00:21:15)
Listener Mail - "Girl Meets World" (00:21:15 - 00:32:30)
Listener Mail - "Under the Dome" (00:32:40 - 00:37:10)
Listener Mail - Slow-playing cancellations (00:37:15 - 00:44:15)
"Boardwalk Empire" (00:44:30 - 00:59:20)
"The Walking Dead" (00:59:20 - 01:09:58)
"Homeland" (01:10:00 - 00:1:24:15)
As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]
And as always, feel free to e-mail us questions for the podcast.
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupDave I
December 3, 2012 at 6:35PM EST Reply to CommentHere's where I disagree with you on Homeland.
What other options did Nazir have? The destruction of the homecoming soldiers was his last card to lay on the table. Now all he has is to try and kill the man who killed his son. They know he is in the U.S., in the DC area at that, so he knows this may be his last chance.
I will give you, weird that nobody is tapping Brody's phone just in case. Everything about the Skype session was weak (e.g. texting the serial number).
Still, this is hardly the episode where I think they jumped the shark. I'm surprised you guys have overlooked that stuff in the past and NOW it bothers you? I believe I was overall fine with this episode because they set us up for that. By comparison, this episode seemed tame to me.
-Cheers
Dave I I would ask how you think they could/should change up the show a/o the core dynamic in a positive way.
December 3, 2012 at 6:35PM EST-Cheers
Sully I agree I think this was supposed to be Nazir's hail mary at the end. His whole operation is busted up and he knows he will be caught or killed very soon so he is trying to get some last measure of revenge on Walden. I thought the part where Carrie tells him he will never get out of America alive and he says he knows but doesn't care was supposed to indicate that.
December 4, 2012 at 6:44PM ESTOther than that I agree about all the implausabilities though.
Sareeta
December 3, 2012 at 7:54PM EST Reply to CommentNormally I cringe at child actors in TV series, but Game of Thrones has several excellent child actors (Maisie Williams, Sophie Turner, Isaac Hempstead, etc.) They are all playing characters dealing with very dark situations and they play it so authentically. Is it because there are so many characters (and therefore, each character only gets a few minutes per episode) that the Emmy award will probably never be awarded to these kids?
Tyler
December 3, 2012 at 8:32PM EST Reply to CommentI think your argument for Girl Meets world, was valid, but it missed a key point. The fact that the old school boy meets world is still showing, it builds interest for new viewers, and older viewers. Regardless, when the pilot comes, you can expect it to have good ratings, for disney channel.
Nate
December 3, 2012 at 9:00PM EST Reply to Comment"Walking Dead, Boardwalk Empire, and Boy Meets World."
The Big Three! (In the style of Andy Dwyer)
Shawn Mahone
December 3, 2012 at 9:44PM EST Reply to CommentI agree that Homeland has become a little lost lately and that was always going to happen when they blew their load in the first season. Breaking Bad, The Wire, Sopranos and Mad Men mostly spent their first seasons just slowly building up their characters and the worlds they lived in and spent the remaining seasons paying hard work off by exploiting the foundations perfectly.
Homeland just went of the kill too early and they had nowhere else to go and have run out of steam. The same could be said of Chuck in a way, they were going so fast in the second season that people were enjoying the show so much no one really cared (Alan mentioned at the time that the plot holes were so huge but he did not care because he was having a blast) that they were consuming a lot of story and when time came for reflection in seasons 3 onwards the show was found wanting.
That is the thing, Shows that go for the ratings and actually not a coherant story that has consistent characters will always get found out. I will give Chuck some leeway because of living off half seasons from season 3 onwards but taht is the only reason, Homeland should have known better and done better...they sadly were run by 24 people who did not and the price is being paid.
Sad...we need great shows in this time and age where reality tv is killing these shows (as well as procedurals), this does not help.
Nat I don't think that it's at all the same thing to criticize a show for having run out of good story to tell (which may well be the case for Homeland) and to criticize it for telling too much story in the beginning. No great TV show could really spend a season on world-building, because world-building is boring. If an entire season of television is only valuable because it's "paid off" later on, it must have been a really dreadful season. Thankfully, I don't think that applies to any of the shows you listed--The Wire and The Sopranos both told pretty tremendous, more or less self-contained stories in their first seasons, and if Breaking Bad didn't finish any story in its first season, it certainly can't be accused of being a slow build--Walt is a murderer by the end of the pilot. (I'm less sure about Mad Men, as it's less heavily serialized than the others, and doesn't really have any load to blow, as you put it).
December 4, 2012 at 10:45PM ESTJamestown
December 4, 2012 at 12:42AM EST Reply to CommentDamn, it sound like you guys are breaking up with Homeland on this podcast. Dan almost even game the classic "It's not you, it's me" excuse, I have heard so often in my life.
Jamestown *gave
December 4, 2012 at 12:43AM ESTJohn
December 4, 2012 at 1:05AM EST Reply to CommentRe: child actors. Alan mentioned that he had once put Kiernan Shipka on a personal ballot of his (looks like it was 2011). I just want to point out that he had Maisie Williams on his ballot *this year* (http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/if-i-had-an-emmy-ballot-2012-outstanding-supporting-actress-in-a-drama-series). Dan said that he thought Williams wasn't necessarily deserving of a nomination, but Shipka was. Honestly, I think both are great, and I had both on my personal ballot (along with Maggie Smith, Lena Headey, Christina Hendricks and Archie Panjabi). But if forced to pick between the two, I think Williams is *slightly* better than Shipka. But I'd be happy with a nomination for either.
John
December 4, 2012 at 1:19AM EST Reply to CommentI'm not exactly sure what Dan is talking about when he says "every 24 season" has a situation like Nazir on his own, acting only out of revenge. I'm hard pressed to think of a single season like that (at least for a main villain). Just off the top of my head, that didn't happen in Season 1 (well, revenge was the main motivation of Drazen, but he wasn't particularly interested in terrorism on a massive scale). It didn't happen in Season 2. It didn't happen in Season 3. It didn't happen in Season 4. It didn't happen in Season 5. I have tried to erase all memories of Season 6 from my mind, so it *might* have happened there. I suppose it sort of happened in Season 7, depending on who one views is the villain of that season (I say no). It didn't really happen in Season 8 either. For the most part, all of the major villains had a bunch of people working for them right up until the end, and they were continuously trying to commit a major terror attack.
Tausif Khan
December 4, 2012 at 1:23AM EST Reply to CommentAlan you listed Max Burkholder as a person you would like to see get an Emmy nomination for his portrayal of a child with Asperger's.
Also, now that Asperger's diagnosis has changed do either of you think that will affect Parenthood?
Tausif Khan
December 4, 2012 at 2:10AM EST Reply to CommentThe Mob Doctor is somehow still on the air.
Also, Dan do you know if NBC is putting out The Firm on DVD?
belinda
December 4, 2012 at 4:40AM EST Reply to CommentIf Saul sings, would Homeland get back into Dan's top ten shows of the year?
dan Belinda - No promises at this point. But "Probably."
December 4, 2012 at 11:05PM EST-Daniel
erika_herzog
December 4, 2012 at 7:36AM EST Reply to Commenti agree with what you guys said about the Homeland / yanking on the threads thing. very smart observation.
it may have been a mistake to continuously review Homeland but i think it's the direct cost of the fact that there aren't that many shows worthy of attention this fall. it just feels like a thinner season compared to others.
there were some shows i enjoyed a lot that could have used some focus but they were shows i can't imagine either of you spending a lot of time on: AWKWARD., Hart of Dixie, Revenge, Nashville, The Neighbors, Chicago Fire.... except for The Neighbors those are all pretty much soaps and chick flicks.
here's hoping mid-season is a bit more meaty. it's going to be a long winter otherwise....
cbx4500
December 4, 2012 at 3:28PM EST Reply to CommentAt this point I'd agree Homeland doesn't warrant a weekly discussion ... from this fall's lineup, Boardwalk Empire is probably the most deserving.
prettok
December 4, 2012 at 3:32PM EST Reply to CommentI think Frankie Muniz was the only kid to be up for a regular series Emmy in the past 10-20 years.
john Frankie Muniz was not nominated for an Emmy.
December 5, 2012 at 2:27PM ESThttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-emmy-snubs-kids-196371
"The youngest person to win a primetime Emmy was 14-year-old Roxana Zal in 1984 for the incest-themed, movie-of-the-week Something About Amelia. But the academy has never awarded an actor under 18 a statuette for series work. The last minor to receive a nomination was Claire Danes at 16 for lead actress in ABC's My So-Called Life in 1995."
prettok http://www.emmys.com/nominations/2001/Outstanding%20Lead%20Actor%20In%20A%20Comedy%20Series
December 5, 2012 at 7:48PM ESTPaul
December 4, 2012 at 6:31PM EST Reply to CommentThe kids from Season 4 of the Wire spring to mind as doing exceptional work, though it's hard to single any one of the four main kids out.
Tim
December 5, 2012 at 12:32AM EST Reply to CommentAlan - I think the thing w/ Michonne and Andrea is that Michonne doesn't know that Andrea knows Glen, Maggie, Rick, etc. and vice versa. I don't recall them ever discussing Andrea w/ Michonne, and I think all indications are that the prison group thinks Andrea is dead and Andrea thinks the prison group are dead or miles away by now. This is also why Andrea looked so dumbfounded when Merle's opponent was revealed to be Darryl.
Tim
December 10, 2012 at 2:23PM EST Reply to CommentNo problem with Under the Dome's ending. Loved the last act, the meth explosion and the fate of the villains were incredibly satisfying.