Inside TV+Movies with Daniel Fienberg

Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 142

Dan and Alan talk more TCA Press Tour, 'Buffy' finale and 'The Dark Knight Rises

By Daniel Fienberg Monday, Aug 6, 2012 5:12 PM

The

Happy Monday, Boys & Girls!

Time for our first Monday installment of the Firewall & Iceberg Podcast in a few weeks.

And this will also be the first of two podcasts this week.

In this episode, Sepinwall and I wrap up TCA Press Tour, discuss this week's "Breaking Bad" and the Season 1 finale of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." And, because people requested it and because we'd both seen the movie, we also discuss "The Dark Knight Rises."

Come back on Wednesday for our reviews of "Animal Practice," "Go On," "Hell on Wheels" and for our answer to any mail y'all happen to provide.

Good times!

Here's Monday's breakdown:

TCA Press Tour (00:01:00 - 00:34:25)

"Breaking Bad" (00:34:35 - 00:57:40)

"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (00:57:40 - 01:15:15)

"The Dark Knight Rises" (01:15:20 - 01:33:00)

As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]

And as always, feel free to e-mail us questions for the podcast.

Firewall & Iceberg - Podcast 142

Daniel Fienberg
Executive Editor

A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.

Related Searches: Firewall & Iceberg, Podcast, Alan Sepinwall, daniel fienberg, Breaking Bad, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Press Tour 2012, The Dark Knight Rises

Trending Now on HitFix Boards

Topic	Started By	Latest Post	Replies
HitFix 2012 Television Critics Poll - Do you agree?	dave1279	5 months ago	1
Best TV of 2012	suzyduncan	8 months ago	1
Discuss TV General on HitFix Message Boards »

Dave I

I think Tom Hardy added more to the role than you guys did. He projected some good scenes with his eyes and body language, and a physicality to the last big fight scene in particular. I also liked the movie over all vastly more than you two, although it had issues.

Mostly, it was just pretty good yet paled in comparison to The Dark Knight. It needed to be more compact or developed into two movies with that much going on. However, I'm fine disagreeing no this, not that it will keep you up at nights if I was not.

-Cheers
August 6, 2012 at 6:00PM EST Reply to Comment
Minnie

doesn't the cw already have gossip girl to herald the epicness and wonder of abusive love anyway?
August 6, 2012 at 6:11PM EST Reply to Comment
- dan Minnie - Yup. Chuck-n-Blair is already a Beauty & The Beast narrative in the same revisionist framework that The CW's new drama sorta kinda pretends like it wants to take. And Chuck-n-Blair is icky...
  
  -Daniel
  August 6, 2012 at 8:35PM EST
Carl

Dan, you're intense! Thankfully Alan can keep up, but I imagine it's hard for you to have satisfying conversations on a daily basis.
August 6, 2012 at 6:49PM EST Reply to Comment
Faye

I'm disappointed you're not talking about S2 of Buffy, and I get the sense it's Alan's fault it's not happening.
August 6, 2012 at 7:19PM EST Reply to Comment
- dan Faye - I threw Alan under the bus on this one, but his feeling is that we don't want to commit to an ongoing project that would then get steamrolled once the fall season starts and we're reviewing six or seven (or 10 or 20) shows per week, including returning shows. I can't disagree with that logic at all...
  
  -Daniel
  August 6, 2012 at 8:34PM EST
- sepinwall And there remains the chance it may be an occasional thing, featuring the best of Buffy s2 (and maybe more). I just didn't think it was realistic for us to think we could do 22 more weeks of Buffy.
  August 6, 2012 at 8:36PM EST
- mrbilliam When they announced the rewatch, they specifically warned they would not be discussing future seasons of the show, because it would be too likely to devolve into things like "When Buffy had the rocket launcher, it was awesome!" They said something pretty close to that.
  August 6, 2012 at 11:06PM EST
- andrei If you do decide to continue in some fashion, might I suggest you look at the episodes that really played with the established format ("Hush", "Restless", "The Body", "Conversations with Dead People") and what made them so effective?
  
  Or, you could go the other direction with "Go Fish" and "Where the Wld Things Are" and just have some MST3K-type snarky fun!
  
  August 7, 2012 at 4:54PM EST
- JedyKnight Thanks a lot for the Buffy Summer Re-watch, some of the eps i remembered, some i didnt, but i enjoyed a lot watching them all.. the last 2 really remind me why i loved that show so much.
  
  August 7, 2012 at 11:33PM EST
Greg

Why can't you talk about the premiere of Homeland? Did Showtime asked you not to?
August 6, 2012 at 7:30PM EST Reply to Comment
- dan Greg - Only because it's not premiering until the end of September. I only mentioned the quality of the "Dexter" premiere because it seemed connected to the way things were discussed on the press tour panel...
  
  -Daniel
  August 6, 2012 at 8:33PM EST
odessasteps

still no olympics talk? if not the sports themselves, the actual tv issues that have been discussed since they started? plausibly live? the journo banned by twitter?
August 6, 2012 at 10:07PM EST Reply to Comment
- dan OdessaSteps - We'll talk about the Olympics in the Wednesday podcast in some way...
  
  -Daniel
  August 6, 2012 at 10:17PM EST
Not even a Sorkin fan

So apparently the dishonest portrayal of Sorkin's answer to Sepinwall has been taken to another level.

To recap: Sepinwall took issue with Mackenzie, who is supposed to be competent, always screwing up her job and having to apologize for it; Sorkin pointed out a particular episode in which no such thing took place; Sepinwall insisted that was incorrect, citing an apology that was unrelated to her job performance; Sorkin correctly pointed out that the apology, being about a personal matter, was not an example of what Sepinwall had originally complained about.

Sepinwall has previously characterized Sorkin's second response as "pivoting his argument," when he was actually the one doing that *based on his own description of events*. And now he's just plain calling Sorkin a liar, while not bothering to provide the context that proves the claim abzzzzzurd.
August 6, 2012 at 11:05PM EST Reply to Comment
- sepinwall At no point in my question did I specify about Mac apologizing for her job performance. The phrase I used, was (from the transcript for the panel) "her function is to screw up and then apologize to Will at the end of the episode."
  
  The distinction Sorkin was making was that he felt the apology she makes in the Giffords episode is something worth apologizing for, but he began by saying she didn't apologize to Will in that episode.
  August 6, 2012 at 11:29PM EST
luisl

Really not looking forward to the new series in Showtime. I thought they were going to do more drama like Homeland but they are doing House of Lies 2.
August 7, 2012 at 1:32AM EST Reply to Comment
- dan LuisL - For what it's worth, I compared Ray Donovan to House of Lies, but I meant that mostly in terms of its bare bones. Both shows are about fixers who can fix everything but their own lives, blah blah blah. Ray Donovan looks MUCH darker and much grittier than House of Lies.
  
  -Daniel
  August 7, 2012 at 1:34AM EST
gco211

Great podcast as always guys. I especially enjoyed hearing your thoughts on Dark Knight Rises as it's nice to get some non-tv on the podcast occasionally.

However, Dan, you might want to consider seeing an optometrist or upgrading your television. While it was unclear what was on the barrel at first, there is a second shot that is close up to the GPS and "Garmin" is visibly printed on it. Then again, maybe you've just taken to Alan's belief that TV is not a visual medium and were expecting someone to say what it is.
August 7, 2012 at 2:00AM EST Reply to Comment
- dan GCO211 - I probably should have pressed pause on my DVR, but come on... It's "Breaking Bad." I didn't want to pause the action. I wanted to get to the next scene.
  
  And, yes... I do actually need to visit an optometrist. True story...
  
  -Daniel
  August 7, 2012 at 2:06AM EST
- Billy Hey Dan - I was also a little disappointed that neither of you saw the "Garmin" imprint on the device, for different reasons though. I really wanted your and Alan's take on it. At first I thought it was very heavy handed, especially for a show like BB, the way they let the viewer know what it was. It made it seem as if the DEA shopped at the local Best Buy for their tracking devices. Later though, I thought that that the purpose was to show Lydia is pretty much an inept nitwit. This theory however further highlights the problems with her character introduction that you spoke of. Any thoughts?
  
  Thanks
  August 8, 2012 at 12:15PM EST
Bloody Phantasm

I guess you guys missed it, but I clearly saw the words "Garmin" printed on the device under/in the putty. I assume you were supposed to assume it was a gps device based on that. As you stated,it seems that Gilligan thought that it was more clear than it really was.

I'm pretty sure Hank's boss told him he would have to reassign new people each case including the Fring one, implying he wouldn't be as hands on with the case. Hank did seem more comfortable with the idea by the end of the conversation though.
August 7, 2012 at 2:16AM EST Reply to Comment
- Bloody Phantasm Damn, GCO211 beat me to the punch.
  August 7, 2012 at 2:17AM EST
etude

Sorkin was never going to give you guys the scrum that King did. He'd wage the battle on his terms and if the critics held to their side it'd be a stalemate. Sorkin and King are not on the same level as far as handling themselves in front of the press. Sutter is somewhere between King and Sorkin. If it was David Milch, he'd talk over all your heads and raise the discussion too some philosophical level and he'd win the argument. That's my impression.
August 7, 2012 at 4:13AM EST Reply to Comment
Nathan B

Definitely preferred this Bane Batman movie to a hypothetical Two-Face movie. The end of The Dark Knight was bad enough. Dark Knight Rises was a better movie for me because it never felt like it was going on too long. I was into the movie the whole time unlike The Dark Knight which was boring and unnecessary for its last half hour.
August 7, 2012 at 5:02AM EST Reply to Comment
- deegee Thank you! All those false endings in the Dark Knight, ugh. Don't even want to get into it. Even though Bane's never going to be as interesting a villain as Joker, I liked this movie so much more.
  August 7, 2012 at 6:42AM EST
Bern

Any chance that Lydia didn't put the device on the barrel? Matt Zoller Seitz thinks it isn't her, and his point that she's a desk jockey, who probably can't fit a tracking device to the bottom of a heavy barrel of methalamine is pretty convincing.
August 7, 2012 at 6:43AM EST Reply to Comment
Mia Monroe

Great podcast. I'm also a bit disappointed that Buffy S2 is not getting discussed, I was hoping 2 episodes a week might work, but I can understand the reasoning. When fall comes, it's a clusterfuck of new shows to discuss. In some ways, this podcast operates on the same values as "The Newsroom" - the listeners would like Dan and Alan to talk more about their favorite shows, but D & A insist on discussing whatever shows are premiering that week, even if nobody cares about those shows, it's like their duty to let us know about them as TV critics. But that's what makes this an elite podcast, in other podcasts, the hosts just talk about the same shows over and over because they know that's what the people want.

As far as Breaking Bad, I totally agree it needs more Jesse, but on the bright side, the reason why he's getting less screentime is probably because he's never been so well adjusted. He's in a good place and there's not a lot going on with him to devote time to, which beats the constant pain and suffering of season 4. Of course this will change, the writers are setting things up so it'll be as painful as possible when s hits the fan, by making Jesse and Walt's relationship the best it's ever been (as far as Jesse knows at least). It's going to be crazy, i'm cringing already in antecipation, when Jesse gave Walt the watch - aw Jesse, Walt so does not deserve your sweetness. Anyway, for an A episode, you guys sure focused on the negative a lot, you didn't even get into the amazing scene of Walt and Skyler going at it for like 6 minutes, that was some great TV.
August 7, 2012 at 11:09AM EST Reply to Comment
Jonathan

To recap: Dan has declared the major films of Joss Whedon and Christopher Nolan this year to have been "poorly written". It's hard to like you Dan with your insanely hyperbolic statements. Your film reviews this year have cumulatively sounded like they could have came from the mouth of Armond White. I'm curious if you've liked any films this year or if you've left every theater with that same smarmy, sarcastic, bitter reaction from all your podcasts.
August 7, 2012 at 12:24PM EST Reply to Comment
- dan Jonathan - I actually wrote a dozen-plus reviews out of the Sundance Film Festival this year that were mostly quite positive, so you're basing your reading of my film reviews this year "cumulatively" on a miniscule and entirely unrepresentative sample, rendering you the one who's being "insanely hyperbolic," not me. I'm also pretty sure I didn't call "The Avengers" poorly written as a whole. I simply criticized aspects of its writing and went into detail on why those aspects didn't work for me. And while I did think "The Dark Knight Rises" was, indeed, poorly written... Well, that happens. "A Comedy of Errors" is a crappy play. It doesn't cease to be a bad play because Shakespeare's name is on it, so I'm not going to hide my head in shame for having issues with screenplays written by Saint Joss and Sir Christopher.
  
  Anyway, though, based on your last sentence, it just sounds like you don't like me very much and it has nothing to do with my having substantive and in-depth thoughts on two popular movies that differ from your own.
  
  Oh well.
  
  -Daniel
  August 7, 2012 at 1:10PM EST
- andrei Talk about the show, Dan, not each other.
  
  Oh wait, that's Alan's rule, not yours.....carry on!
  August 7, 2012 at 4:57PM EST
- dan Andrei - What did *I* start here? And I didn't insult Jonathan in ANY way.
  
  -Daniel
  August 7, 2012 at 5:05PM EST
- Looloo Being mean to Dan makes the monkeys cry, so stop it people.
  August 7, 2012 at 6:40PM EST
odessasteps

Since it's now going to be airing in the US, would you guys consider reviewing (or at least discussing) the original Israeli Homeland series?
August 7, 2012 at 4:58PM EST Reply to Comment
TR

Dan,
Skylar actually does mention going to the cops briefly in their exchange, something like "I can't go to the police, I can't keep you out of the house, I can't even keep you out of our bed." She just doesn't say why she can't go to the cops, which I thought was strange.
August 7, 2012 at 9:07PM EST Reply to Comment
JedyKnight

Even though i think you lay it too thick on TDKR, it gave me joy to hear my favorite (visual media) podcasters talking about one of the most important films of the year.. although it was a little out of the "TV" overall team of F&I. must also be the geek in me.
on that note, as a comic book geek and something of a film enthusiast, i did find TDKR weaknesses mostly on the plotting and scripting. some of it based on the fact that (as Nolan himself said before) his original plan on ending the trilogy had the joker on a big role; plan he had to scrap due to unexpected tragedy, plus the addition of his personal decision not only not to recast the part but not have the character even mentioned as a personal decision of respect to a departed friend. Then deciding to link the conclusion (almost by adamantium chains) to Batman Begins wasn't a bad idea per se, but sometimes worked and sometimes it felt forced, specially since i agree with others than they basically 'walked back' the ending of TDK.

Also, I was a big comic book reader when the Knightfall storyline happened in the Batman books, and it was great, Bane's master plan to release all the crazies so their capture will take Batman to a physical and psychological exhaustion point, before facing him and breaking him.. and then Azrael's as a new century (more violent) Batman; Nightwing, the prodigal son returning; Tim Drake's involvement, Batman's long recovery and then the rematch. it was all epic, that cant be match on a film, even a 3 hr film. So i expected a water down version of Bane, and even if it wasn't as awful as Batman&Robin's horrible version, it was again portrayed as a lackey of someone else instead of a master villain on his own right. And I was very interested in seen the Nolan's version of the No Man's Land plot (Gotham sealed off and in anarchy), and it wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

Having said all that, the production values, (most of) the acting: specially the ladies, the set pieces, score and effects it was all very good.

most of all i believe the film's greatest weakness was been a conclusion to a trilogy which first part was good, and the second was even better. it would have had to be almost perfect to meet the huge expectations fans & critics had of it. Aside from Nolan dark mind having to marry the company's need for anything close to a Hollywood ending (and merchandise opportunities).

It baffles me to hear other fans and even critics say that TDKR was the best of all 3 movies (and with the possibility of earning several Oscar nominations, and maybe wins, as a combine award to the whole work, a la LOTR3). i will say is a close call between BB and TDKR on which was the second best, but TDK is by far the best of all 3 movies.

It wasn't great, but it was good enough (and better than most superhero movies), when it comes out in DVD/BR i will gladly complete my collection of the trilogy, is very rewatchable. and I'm glad Nolan had 3 cracks at doing Batman, even if the greatest Batman stories are still told in print rather than celluloid.

ps. this is my humble personal opinion, which may be different than yours, but i truly enjoy hearing you guys opinion on anything.
August 7, 2012 at 11:31PM EST Reply to Comment

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Comments

Option 1

Option 2

Option 3

Minnie doesn't the cw already have gossip girl to herald the epicness and wonder of abusive love anyway?

dan Minnie - Yup. Chuck-n-Blair is already a Beauty & The Beast narrative in the same revisionist framework that The CW's new drama sorta kinda pretends like it wants to take. And Chuck-n-Blair is icky...-Daniel

Carl Dan, you're intense! Thankfully Alan can keep up, but I imagine it's hard for you to have satisfying conversations on a daily basis.

Faye I'm disappointed you're not talking about S2 of Buffy, and I get the sense it's Alan's fault it's not happening.

sepinwall And there remains the chance it may be an occasional thing, featuring the best of Buffy s2 (and maybe more). I just didn't think it was realistic for us to think we could do 22 more weeks of Buffy.

mrbilliam When they announced the rewatch, they specifically warned they would not be discussing future seasons of the show, because it would be too likely to devolve into things like "When Buffy had the rocket launcher, it was awesome!" They said something pretty close to that.

JedyKnight Thanks a lot for the Buffy Summer Re-watch, some of the eps i remembered, some i didnt, but i enjoyed a lot watching them all.. the last 2 really remind me why i loved that show so much.

Greg Why can't you talk about the premiere of Homeland? Did Showtime asked you not to?

dan Greg - Only because it's not premiering until the end of September. I only mentioned the quality of the "Dexter" premiere because it seemed connected to the way things were discussed on the press tour panel...-Daniel

odessasteps still no olympics talk? if not the sports themselves, the actual tv issues that have been discussed since they started? plausibly live? the journo banned by twitter?

dan OdessaSteps - We'll talk about the Olympics in the Wednesday podcast in some way...-Daniel

luisl Really not looking forward to the new series in Showtime. I thought they were going to do more drama like Homeland but they are doing House of Lies 2.

dan LuisL - For what it's worth, I compared Ray Donovan to House of Lies, but I meant that mostly in terms of its bare bones. Both shows are about fixers who can fix everything but their own lives, blah blah blah. Ray Donovan looks MUCH darker and much grittier than House of Lies. -Daniel

dan GCO211 - I probably should have pressed pause on my DVR, but come on... It's "Breaking Bad." I didn't want to pause the action. I wanted to get to the next scene.And, yes... I do actually need to visit an optometrist. True story...-Daniel

Bloody Phantasm Damn, GCO211 beat me to the punch.

deegee Thank you! All those false endings in the Dark Knight, ugh. Don't even want to get into it. Even though Bane's never going to be as interesting a villain as Joker, I liked this movie so much more.

Bern Any chance that Lydia didn't put the device on the barrel? Matt Zoller Seitz thinks it isn't her, and his point that she's a desk jockey, who probably can't fit a tracking device to the bottom of a heavy barrel of methalamine is pretty convincing.

andrei Talk about the show, Dan, not each other. Oh wait, that's Alan's rule, not yours.....carry on!

dan Andrei - What did *I* start here? And I didn't insult Jonathan in ANY way. -Daniel

Looloo Being mean to Dan makes the monkeys cry, so stop it people.

odessasteps Since it's now going to be airing in the US, would you guys consider reviewing (or at least discussing) the original Israeli Homeland series?

TR Dan,Skylar actually does mention going to the cops briefly in their exchange, something like "I can't go to the police, I can't keep you out of the house, I can't even keep you out of our bed." She just doesn't say why she can't go to the cops, which I thought was strange.

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Minnie

doesn't the cw already have gossip girl to herald the epicness and wonder of abusive love anyway?

dan Minnie - Yup. Chuck-n-Blair is already a Beauty & The Beast narrative in the same revisionist framework that The CW's new drama sorta kinda pretends like it wants to take. And Chuck-n-Blair is icky...

-Daniel

Carl

Dan, you're intense! Thankfully Alan can keep up, but I imagine it's hard for you to have satisfying conversations on a daily basis.

Faye

I'm disappointed you're not talking about S2 of Buffy, and I get the sense it's Alan's fault it's not happening.

Greg

Why can't you talk about the premiere of Homeland? Did Showtime asked you not to?

dan Greg - Only because it's not premiering until the end of September. I only mentioned the quality of the "Dexter" premiere because it seemed connected to the way things were discussed on the press tour panel...

-Daniel

odessasteps

still no olympics talk? if not the sports themselves, the actual tv issues that have been discussed since they started? plausibly live? the journo banned by twitter?

dan OdessaSteps - We'll talk about the Olympics in the Wednesday podcast in some way...

-Daniel

luisl

Really not looking forward to the new series in Showtime. I thought they were going to do more drama like Homeland but they are doing House of Lies 2.

dan LuisL - For what it's worth, I compared Ray Donovan to House of Lies, but I meant that mostly in terms of its bare bones. Both shows are about fixers who can fix everything but their own lives, blah blah blah. Ray Donovan looks MUCH darker and much grittier than House of Lies.

-Daniel

dan GCO211 - I probably should have pressed pause on my DVR, but come on... It's "Breaking Bad." I didn't want to pause the action. I wanted to get to the next scene.

And, yes... I do actually need to visit an optometrist. True story...

-Daniel

Bern

Any chance that Lydia didn't put the device on the barrel? Matt Zoller Seitz thinks it isn't her, and his point that she's a desk jockey, who probably can't fit a tracking device to the bottom of a heavy barrel of methalamine is pretty convincing.

andrei Talk about the show, Dan, not each other.

Oh wait, that's Alan's rule, not yours.....carry on!

dan Andrei - What did I start here? And I didn't insult Jonathan in ANY way.

-Daniel

odessasteps

Since it's now going to be airing in the US, would you guys consider reviewing (or at least discussing) the original Israeli Homeland series?

TR

Dan,
Skylar actually does mention going to the cops briefly in their exchange, something like "I can't go to the police, I can't keep you out of the house, I can't even keep you out of our bed." She just doesn't say why she can't go to the cops, which I thought was strange.

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