Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 131
Dan and Alan talk 'Awake,' 'Longmire' and start their 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' journey
Happy Tuesday, Boys & Girls!
Hope you had a happy and reverential Memorial Day. Now it's time for another installment of The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast, recorded with a full ocean between us.
In this week's podcast, we review A&E's "Longmire," discuss the series finale of NBC's "Awake," talk about Sunday's mighty eventful "Mad Men" and then we begin our summer rewatch of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."
So that's a lot of ground to cover.
[On a side note: If the "Buffy" character who we say at the end of the podcast is never mentioned again happens to be mentioned again in the next episode, no need to tell us. That's the beauty of a rewatch: We'll discover next episode and I'll be sure to apologize profusely. To the character, not the actor.]
Anyway...
Here's the breakdown:
"Longmire" (00:01:45 - 00:11:00)
"Awake" finale (00:11:00 - 00:26:15)
Listener Mail (00:26:15 - 00:36:15)
"Mad Men" (00:37:35 - 01:01:20)
"Buffy" Rewatch Part I (01:01:30 - 01:25:10)
As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]
And as always, feel free to e-mail us questions for the podcast.
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
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Login or create a HitFix account Login Signupsepinwall
May 29, 2012 at 8:24PM EST Reply to CommentOh, I think you'll owe an apology to that actor, Dan. Preferably in person. With a camera crew.
dan With Mario Lopez? Knocking at my door, Alan?
May 29, 2012 at 8:26PM EST-Daniel
sepinwall No. This isn't part of that running gag. It's its own thing.
May 29, 2012 at 8:42PM ESTRobinson
May 29, 2012 at 8:32PM EST Reply to CommentIncredible- I was in London this week and saw the same Sweeney Todd show Dan did (though on a different night). Truly exceptional production- especially Imelda Staunton's incredible performance.
belinda
May 29, 2012 at 9:45PM EST Reply to CommentThat velvet jacket! LMAO
Jonathan
May 29, 2012 at 9:49PM EST Reply to CommentThat was an awesome reader mail question and, no, I was not the one that sent it.
Nat
May 29, 2012 at 9:49PM EST Reply to CommentIs this not the review you described?
http://judge2119.tripod.com/articles/general3.htm
sepinwall That sure reads like embryonic Fienberg writing to me. We'll see what Dan says when he wakes up on London time.
May 29, 2012 at 10:06PM ESTdan That is, indeed, the review in question! The Internet truly never forgets and never forgives!
May 30, 2012 at 5:54AM EST-Daniel
rugman11 I found that too and figured it was a poorly
May 30, 2012 at 11:45AM ESTDave I
May 29, 2012 at 10:20PM EST Reply to CommentFirst, thanks again for covering Awake. I was higher on the show than either of you seemed to be, however I think it had a bit of potential even trying to disregard my bias.
Second, since the finale bumped up in numbers, any chance NBC will undo the cancellation and renew it? (Sorry, just kidding, old habits die hard).
Seriously though, I'm wondering if Kyle K. will ever think through and discuss where he would ultimately envision the show ending had it had X number of seasons or gone to another network or even a graphic novel format. I would like to know which world (if either) was real, if/how they were going to incorporate the Gemini Killer and if HE also knew/saw both worlds (or if he was just a psychopath serial killer), and just generally his best guess on how it would have played out and ended. I'd like to see him get to develop something, NOT have to water it down for mainstream TV, and be able to see it through to its logical conclusion.
I do agree Terriers was a better self-contained series. While it had the cliffhanger, they also said what would happen in season two. It just seemed like you had more closure, fewer questions, and the one big cliffhanger was given a firm solution because they had a plan in mind. All the more reason to want Laura Allen to end up in something that gets a little more recognition.
Final question; If somebody like, say, ME likes Awake, should I make an effort to watch The Singing Detective?
-Cheers
Dave I Also, speaking of Terriers . . .
May 29, 2012 at 11:18PM ESTAny word what Ted Griffen, Donal Logue, Michael Raymond-James, or anybody else central to the show are doing?
-Cheers
TJ
May 29, 2012 at 11:01PM EST Reply to CommentThe big exception to the "if you leave Sterling Cooper you're off the show" rule is Joan. We still followed her at home with her husband to a degree before she came back in the season 3 finale. If that's the treatment Joan gets, Peggy has to get a little more.
Dave I
May 29, 2012 at 11:14PM EST Reply to CommentA few thoughts on Mad Men:
Joan selling herself: It was rushed. I think she WOULD have done it under the right circumstances. Most anybody would have. They should have introduced the Lane embezzlement and Joan's hardships angle (and no the refrigerator dying does not count) earlier. The rest of the characters were not necessarily out of character, it was just rushed. I think nobody actually technically went for it outside of Pete and a desperate Lane, however it seemed like they were all waiting for somebody else to step up. It was too rushed and felt forced though.
Peggy: That was a wonderful episode for her. It was weird seeing Don thunderstruck by Peggy going from an underling apparently positioning for a raise to seeing a rather vital longstanding piece of his life slipping away.
-Cheers
romy
May 29, 2012 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentI took a weekend course a NIDA a few years ago where Sam Worthington was the teacher and he said he thinks he gets cast because American casting ppl and directors are looking for a cowboy like dude and they literally can't find American guys that both have that quality and can act. (obviously your mileage may vary on whether you feel Sam Worthington can act). I've always been confused that Hugh Jackman is an action hero/romantic lead type in American movies and a singing/dancing former Knox (kind of a prissy all boys private school) boy in Australia...
Liz I am utterly flabbergasted by the idea of Sam Worthington teaching other people to act.
May 30, 2012 at 11:44AM ESTJoeL
May 30, 2012 at 12:29AM EST Reply to CommentDoes Dan have a personal reason for his Eric Balfour mockery, or is just caused by Balfour's general douchiness?
DougMac
May 30, 2012 at 1:00AM EST Reply to CommentBailey Chase from Longmire was also part of the initiative in Buffy Season 4 as one of Riley's best friends. Just thought it was worth mentioning with the Buffy rewatch happening (even if it is a different season).
bh
May 30, 2012 at 1:36AM EST Reply to CommentIf Angel hadn't been spun off, he would have stayed dead, no?
TJ
May 30, 2012 at 7:20AM EST Reply to CommentAnother show hurt by an unrealistic romantic infatuation. Lost. Because Kate was awful. And Juliet and Sawyer were awesome. So any moments that implied Juliet was in danger of having Sawyer stolen by Kate (which, thankfully, there weren't many) was pretty eye-rolling.
Dave I I also think that's why I lost interest in the Jack & Kate angle. Kate slept with Sawyer. Follow that up with, hey, Jack, this awesome lady Juliet is showing interest in you. Who wouldn't have dropped Kate? Not that Evangeline Lilly wasn't hot and yeah you had a thing for each other. Still, Juliet seemed smarter, much more charismatic, much more useful, more sincere, sweeter, and just a better catch. Seeing Jack OR Sawyer conflicted between the two was a stretch. It seemed like Jack only liked Kate because that's how it was written. It was pretty cool how they developed the Sawyer & Juliet relationship though; it had a great payoff at the end of the series. Still, after a certain point I stopped buying Kate as anybody's main love interest excepting there being no other options.
May 30, 2012 at 10:08AM EST-Cheers
sepinwall Kate's a good one. Evangeline Lily is beautiful, but I never saw in her what Lindelof and Cuse wanted me to, particularly in terms of the central triangle.
May 30, 2012 at 10:08AM ESTShannon Another classic example is Joey Potter on Dawson's Creek. EVERY character was required to monologue at least once a season about the amazingness of Joey Potter, and every major male character fell in love with her (even the gay one). Ridiculous.
May 30, 2012 at 10:22AM ESTscoopie77
May 30, 2012 at 11:24AM EST Reply to CommentI'll admit it--I've never watched Buffy, but thanks to you, I will start. I've been meaning to for a long time. I was in college when it started and we could only get NBC and ABC over the air, so we had no chance to watch. I'm only recent to TV nerdery, so I'm glad to have this chance to watch!
Amrit
May 30, 2012 at 1:17PM EST Reply to CommentAMRIT Roger and Bert are figure heads right now and are not exactly bring in enough business like Pete to challenge him sinc he is the bread winner. Lane is stealing money and again like Roger and Bert not as valuable as Pete. Don is the only one who is on par with Pete and even he has had a bad year. He is getting out Drappered by Ginzo, he has been called as being on love leave by Bert and according to Ken's father in law no one wants to work with don because no one trust him. Don has allowed himself to be seen as a joke and as Alan said it has been a good 2 seasons since we got a classic Draper pitch and I think Don is frustrated because deep down he knows that he is at the mercy of Pete and his amoral ways.
The fact is the whole agency is relying on Pete to bring them out of the darkness (as a business) and into the light, can any of them really question him at this point? We shall see what happens from now on.... I think Don's frustration comes from the fact that he has let this situation happen and seems powerless to stop it.
It is so easy to blame Pete for this situation, it is not entirely his fault.
Dave I It is weird that Pete has accrued much more power than he has the authority to actually possess. Business-wise, has he earned some prestige? Yes. You asked how can they question him? When he drags them into business practices they consider morally wrong using one of the most respected and liked employees as a prostitute to secure a vote for an ad they should be confident they can get on the merits of the advertising. Pete is not entirely to blame, however he is leading the charge on a downward spiral, morally speaking. Lane's got it covered on the legal/financial aspect, what with the embezzling and all.
May 30, 2012 at 1:49PM ESTI do not think Don is being seen as a joke outside of perhaps the Cool Whip presentation, he has merely not been sensational as an ad man. Still, he can give a great pitch (even if it is sometimes using material from Ginsberg or Peggy up until this week), and his last pitch with Megan was fantastic.
Don has a lot to be frustrated about in his life on multiple levels.
-Cheers
Amrit Joan has used her body her whole life to get what she wants, Don expected Sal to do the exact same thing, Bert blackmailed Don to sign a contact, Roger tried to sleep with girls that could be his daughters and plenty of other stuff. Pete is not leading the charge, he is just part of the process.
May 30, 2012 at 2:20PM ESTDave I Joan using her looks is a lot different than literally prostituting herself out for money as part of a business deal. As for the rest? Touche'! I somehow think Pete comes across worse, or at least slimier. Perhaps because of the gender roles involved or how he had to convince everybody and how Joan actually went through with it (Sal did not). This just seems a step worse somehow. Yet, you are probably right and these are not necessarily people we should look up to. Compelling, yes. Role models? Not quite.
May 30, 2012 at 3:26PM EST-Cheers
Ricardo
May 30, 2012 at 2:17PM EST Reply to CommentIMHO, Initiative -> good. Adam -> bad.
cabo IMHO, Initiative -> good. Adam -> bad . Riley - > worst
May 31, 2012 at 12:24AM ESTJ
May 30, 2012 at 7:26PM EST Reply to CommentI don't think Joss Whedon was an influence on Kevin Williamson. Scream came out before Buffy and I Know What You Did Last Summer was also in production before the show started airing. I do think he was an influence on Shonda Rhimes whose characters all talk like overgrown teenagers.
Also, I've heard the original plan for season 4 of Buffy was for the professor to be the big bad, but that changed midway through the season for some reason.
cabo
May 31, 2012 at 12:18AM EST Reply to CommentI've read all the Longmire books. They aren't Earth-shattering, but they are better than the show. Walt reminds me of Jesse Stone. I always imagined him being played by Tom Selleck or Ed Harris. Katie Sackhouse seems like a good choice.
cabo
May 31, 2012 at 12:31AM EST Reply to CommentIsn't the House finale just a call-back to the Sherlock Holmes being killed by Moriarty, then "no he's not" twist of the original House books?
That said, I loved seeing Kutner and Amber again. More Amber and less Cameron would have been preferable. Cuddy's absence was much too noticeable, they should have found a way to bring her back.
Oaktown Girl CABO - yes, Alan wrote about that. You can see it in his write up about the House series finale. (And you may be on the wrong podcast thread).
May 31, 2012 at 5:19AM ESTOaktown Girl
May 31, 2012 at 5:33AM EST Reply to CommentRegarding the number of foreigners playing Americans on U.S. television: I read an article a couple of years ago (can't remember where exactly) that the major driving force behind that trend in Hollywood was money. The gist was that you can get an experienced Aussie or Brit for way cheaper than the price an American with equivalent experience would command/demand. Supposedly a higher quality (or at least more "experienced") actor can be had for cheaper if you go foreign.
So whichever one of you was saying (and I don't know how serious you were) it was about the lack of sufficiently manly American men, that's simply not the issue. Like most everything else, it's all about the money.
In any event, I think it's a shame for American actors and actresses. So much great talent isn't even getting a chance because the networks keep going for the foreigner with the longer resume.
dan Oaktown Girl - Monday plays a role in some cases and not in others. It's not ALL about the money, because it's also a lot of young and inexperienced Aussie (or occasionally British) actors being chosen for key roles in which a young and inexperienced American actor would have been no more or less expensive. We talk to to directors and producers a lot and we ask about this frequently and the answer is usually "We simply weren't finding what we wanted in the standard talent pool." Granted that they wouldn't say "We wanted to go cheaper," saying that "it's simply not an issue" that American actors aren't appealing to casting directors in these roles for some role or another isn't right either.
May 31, 2012 at 6:01AM EST-Daniel
7s Tim I wonder how many American actors who aren't struggling but aren't stars are stuck in the mindset that they should became a movie actor and not a TV actor. Can't be too high, but I imagine some might be wedded to that mindset. Would be nice if I could think of one to back up my hypothesis. I can only think if guys (Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Taylor Kitsch) who have been trying their hand at movies after variable stints on TV.
May 31, 2012 at 7:06PM ESTOaktown Girl
May 31, 2012 at 5:51AM EST Reply to CommentRe: Buffy Rewind. OK, I'm just now figuring out that the Buffy rewind is for the podcast only and there won't be separate Veterans and Newbies threads. Fine. I'm watching Buffy for the first time, and I'm wondering about the "spoiler" factor. It looks like the thread can be full of spoilers from Buffy Veterans, I guess I should avoid that from now on? How about the podcast - will you guys be spoiler free for newbies?
dan Oaktown Girl - The "Buffy" rewatch is following in the footsteps of "Twin Peaks" and "Undeclared" as podcast-only rewatches.
May 31, 2012 at 6:04AM ESTWe're trying hard not to be spoiler-heavy, but I wouldn't say that we're being spoiler-free, unfortunately, because a lot of what we're discussing is how a sometimes bumpy first season can be part of a show's evolution.
-Daniel
Oaktown Girl Thanks for the reply, Dan. Well, your podcast this week on Buffy was spoiler-free. You guys did a great job of discussing some things about the show that got better in future seasons without ruining anything for me.
May 31, 2012 at 2:11PM ESTSo it's probably the comment thread where I'll have to read with caution.
Siythe
May 31, 2012 at 8:08AM EST Reply to CommentI feel Dan's pain about Australian/British actors being cast. Chloe Sevigny is currently starring in a TV series over here as a transsexual hitman who finds out they're a dad. She's got the accent down but I couldn't help but wonder what was wrong with all the female/transsexual actors in the UK that they had to give the part to an American.
I imagine its going to keep being a problem until a US actor manages to break through as a lead in one of these shows and the received wisdom gets shown to be false. How they can do that when the casting departments aren’t even looking for them have no idea.
dan Siythe - The question always becomes when the actor's good enough that you're like "Best actor the the job? Absolutely!" Like Hugh Laurie on "House"? Or Damian Lewis on "Homeland" and "Life"? You'll never hear me complain when you're casting actors that good. What bothers me is what a mediocre-to-poor British/Aussie/whatever actor gets a job and has to do the bad American accent and all of that stuff. It's in THOSE circumstances where it astounds me that casting directors would rather go the direction they go. So with Chloe, it'd be a question of, "Is she good enough that having her there is worth it?" I really hope "Hit & Miss" gets US distribution...
May 31, 2012 at 8:36AM EST-Daniel
sepinwall Hit & Miss is going to be on the DirecTV channel that aired Friday Night Lights and Damages.
May 31, 2012 at 9:01AM ESTSiythe Dan - Can you have the good ones without the bad though? Charlie Hunnam seems like a prime beneficiary of this trend. His accent work has never been stellar and it took him a while to get his acting up to the level of the best of the cast but I wouldn't want anyone else playing Jax on SoA. Likewise I'm not sure (hello to) Jason Issacs would have gotten a shot at Awake if the people behind the show weren't looking abroad for leading men.
May 31, 2012 at 9:56AM ESTAssuming this is just a trend that will eventually pass on its own, has the overall result been that more miscast actors have been put on shows than would have been the case otherwise?
I should add that, despite my cynicism going in and still not being sold on the show, Chloe Sevigny did some damn good work in the one ep of Hit and Miss I've seen so far.
pamelajaye
June 7, 2012 at 11:27AM EST Reply to CommentI'm still working on this one. I had to take some time off to watch Buffy, and I was behind to begin with - but since I rarely listen to the podcast (anyone's) it's progress.
Two things so far on Buffy - maybe three
When I was in Jr. High - far worse than HS! - I was once asked, mockingly, where I got my clothes - and the answer was Sears. So I can relate. I didn't care about fashion till I was like 19 and read a book called, I believe, Earwax.
#2 It's 1997 and Buffy can't use Google and yes, she can use AltaVista (or at least I did some time back then) but the alternative Dan (?) proposes -- Netscape? I know it was a broswer, I used 3 and 4, but I don't remember it being a search engine.
#3 yeah, I located the review as well :-)
I had to look up Harmony, cause I forgot her name.
pamelajaye oh, and
June 7, 2012 at 11:32AM ESTthe running (joke?) on Buffy that vampires were "on PCP!"
at the time I didn't know anything about PCP and it's possible I still don't (did see a guy on a gurney on ER(?) stand up with the gurney still attached one time) but the recently face-eating bath salts news stories immediately remind me of this rationalization on Buffy.