An epic interview with the Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer: From 'Cloud Atlas' to 'Jupiter Ascending'
A huge interview with the trio of filmmakers behind the most ambitious film of the fall
Collaboration is an inherent part of the filmmaking process, but not in the way these three filmmakers did it. I explained that I've been working with the same writing partner since I was sixteen years old, and that I couldn't imagine introducing someone else into the process because writing is so personal and intimate. I asked how they even began to introduce a new voice into the mix.
Tom laughed and answered, "We went on a holiday together."
Smiling, Lana continued. "It's cool that you realize that. People sometimes say, 'Well, how do you direct together?' But writing is really the intimate process. Directing is a social art form. It's about collaboration. Really, the trick is writing together. Andy and I have an amazing relationship when we write together, and we said, 'I don't know, can we have a third ego in there?' And we weren't sure. But we were just so longing to develop a friendship, and it kept being so hard to hang out. So we thought if we had a project together, we could do that, and we were going to do like we did for James McTiegue, where we were going to write it and he was going to direct it, and then we found this book and we though maybe we could all play together. And then it hit us. We don't even know if we can write together. If we can write together, then surely we can direct together. So I was like let's go away outside of our comfort areas, outside of Berlin, outside of Chicago. Let's go somewhere else and just play."

Andy punctuated the thought with a simple, "Neutral territory."
Lana continued, explaining, "We had heard of fantasy vacations where creative people went together and made something, and we were like, 'This could be one of those.' So we went down to Costa Rica, and we would go boogie-boarding during the day, and in the afternoon, we would get together. We started the first day by saying, 'This is a crazy experiment and we don't know if it's going to work. We'll still love each other. We want to know each other when it's old. Maybe this will just be a funny story we tell. But let's try.'"
She went on, describing the process. "It sort of started in this very innocent of way of saying, 'Well, what are your favorite parts?' And we went through and we started checking off all of our favorite parts, and it was like 'Ka-chink. Ka-chink. Ka-chink. Match. Match. Match.' And we started getting more excited. So then we were like, 'Okay, let's start laying all of our favorite parts down on cards and then start thinking about order.' I wrote an experiment on the plane on the way to Costa Rica based on the line that Cavendish says in the book. 'My experience as an editor has led me to a disdain for flashbacks and flash-forwards and all such tricksy gimmicks,' and I was like, 'That's our opening.'"
Lana explained, "I sort of built this thing that sort of suggested a potential introduction to a new structure that was going to somehow work as a single narrative. I was like, 'We can't start over an hour and a half into a movie.' We knew we couldn't do the structure of the book, so we'd have to create a single flowing narrative like music, a full symphony, and this was the preamble experiment. We read it together, and kind of went…
Andy arched one eyebrow, hyper-dramatically dropping his voice to a whisper. "'Oh my god, this could work.'"
Tom nodded. "It was awesome."
Andy pointed out, "That's in the movie."
Tom explained, "The opening of the movie, that montage before the stories start to unfold in detail, everything that is pre-title leading to Ben putting the gun in his mouth and then you see the title, that's basically what Lana had written that first day. And it's also like a blueprint for the audience. 'Okay, this is what you're going to get.' And of course, it's overwhelming. But the insanity of it seemed like it was flowing and there was a possibility that we could keep going like this. We would probably need to help the audience get themselves organized a little bit, but that we might be able to be completely fluidly constantly cutting from story to story because they are all one story."

I told them how many times now I've been asked by people, "Do I need to read the book before I see the movie?", and how I feel like the film works as its own thing, independent of the book completely at this point. It also seems to me that people who are fans of a property are often the ones who have the hardest time accepting the choices that have to made when you're adapting something.
Tom agreed, explaining, "The reality is that usually, the more you get away from it, the more it becomes its own thing, which is much more acceptable. Adaptations that are more strictly trying to follow every letter of the book, those can be for me more difficult to watch. Why would you just film the book? You need to make it a movie first, and it's a different medium. Make it work for your medium and use the assets that you have there. I think every person I've met so far who had read the book first really enjoyed the movie. 'Perfume' was much harder for me, and the reaction was much harder. You know how it can be, of course."
Andy continued, "Our first friends and family screening went great. We had just close personal friends, people who had read the book and were huge fans of the book. Two of them were booksellers in Chicago. We were feeling pretty strong about this cut. It was very far down the line already, and it was the cut that we screened right before we took it to Warner Bros. But you could tell that there was something not quite right with everybody as they were getting into their seats."
Lana laughed. "It was like a storm rolling in."
Andy laughed as well as he went on. "They ended up watching the movie and they came out, and there was just this relief from them. They thought we were just idiots to try to adapt the book, and they thought that it was impossible to adapt."
Lana said, "Some of them had already formulated their gentle sort of non-answers. 'Oh, it's really good.' But then one of them, one of the bookshop owners, was in tears. He was like, 'I can't believe you did it.'"

I understand the reaction. When I saw it, there were less than ten of us in the room, and when the lights came up, there was a lot of looking down and not meeting anyone's eyes because we were all trying to gather ourselves emotionally. It's hard to walk out, red eyes and wet cheeks, and look cool in front of your peers. The film hit each of us for different reasons, though, and that's part of what made it impressive. There's room for you to have an individual response to what you see in it.
Tom said, "It's very interesting that now we're starting to get people who are starting to see it for the second or third time, and they are starting to say… I know this is true with all of our wives, but when they see it again, it hits them differently, and that's because today you might be more attuned to one of the layers that, in another screening, doesn't really matter so much. You know those images you can look at where sometimes things come out of it in 3D [editor's note -- The 'Magic Eye' images]? The film is like that, all based on your state of mind or your psyche."
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October 10, 2012 at 2:14AM EST Reply to CommentGreat article, but I feel compelled to ask about this passage:
"While I had to leave France disappointed, my efforts were not unnoticed, and in June, I was asked to come see "Cloud Atlas," which was pretty much locked as a cut, although not mixed at that point."
So does that mean you had already seen the film when you wrote this article from a few months back when the long trailer first dropped?
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/cloud-atlas-unleashes-a-six-minute-long-trailer-with-plenty-of-tom-hanks-and-halle-berry
I ask only because it seems to be written from the perspective of someone who hasn't seen it. Was it some sort of extreme embargo situation where you were forbidden from even mentioning the screening?
drew That's exactly what it was. I had to completely and utterly play it as if I had not seen the film. It made it very hard to frame my enthusiasm without giving everything away.
October 10, 2012 at 2:18AM ESTMatt
October 10, 2012 at 2:45AM EST Reply to CommentThis was detailed, smart, heartful and sweet. Your passion for them, their work, and film is apparent with each sentence. I really enjoyed this. Well done sir.
MarkB
October 10, 2012 at 2:50AM EST Reply to CommentDrew, this is probably my favorite piece that I have read here. You captured something that you rarely see in big-budget filmmakers: passion. Can you imagine Ridley Scott talking excitedly about how he's attempting to break the traditional boundaries of cinema with Prometheus? I can't, and I love Ridley Scott. Cloud Atlas is now the movie I most want to see this fall.
Please do more in-depth pieces like this, and try heeding Lana's admonition. Too much focus is put on the business of movies -- look how John Carter "failed" before it even opened -- and not enough on the art. Keep reminding me why I fell in love with film in the first place.
Thanks for putting a wonderful cap on an otherwise crappy day. Please keep doing what you do so well.
- Mark
kadoogan
October 10, 2012 at 4:01AM EST Reply to CommentBusiness & Art.
I think it's okay to write about both -- in fact I think it's necessary since the business side dictates what happens with the art side...but just make sure your coverage of one outweighs the other. Which is something I think you do. So, good on you and please accept my "Atta boy" for this article.
himesheth
October 10, 2012 at 5:37AM EST Reply to CommentFantastic article Drew, now I'm even MORE excited by the film. Unfortunately it only comes out here (the UK) next year :(
Stacy
October 10, 2012 at 9:41AM EST Reply to CommentAwesome interview. I always respected the fact that the Wachowskis tell their story how they wanna tell it and how they are always up to take risks with big canvas studio filmmaking. Can't wait to see Cloud Atlas.
Edward Douglas
October 10, 2012 at 9:58AM EST Reply to CommentGoing to take me some time to read this but I'm surprised you didn't do it as a QnA
yourblindspot
October 10, 2012 at 10:21AM EST Reply to CommentAmazing conversation, Drew, and as frank and earnest as any interview I've read in a very long time. Thanks so much for sharing it with us. As a fan of both the team and the source, I am thrilled to see what they've done with it and fully expect to be floored.
DocLazy
October 10, 2012 at 10:28AM EST Reply to CommentEpic! Thank you, Drew. This has been one of the best interviews, I've ever read. I am from Germany and am both a Fan of Tom and the Ws for a f*cking long time now. I never understood all the hate against Speed Racer. I love it and I'm 46, damn it! We need more creative people like this trio infernale out there in this business. This is filmmaking, how it should be. Always.
I'm really looking forward to Cloud Atlas, my friend. Hopefully this will get some rewards. And if not in cash, than at least in award season. They deserve it. And Tom, too. I am more than a little proud as a German.
Again thank you so much. Keep up the good work and your Film Nerd 2.0 reviews. I enjoy them all.
mmcb105
October 10, 2012 at 11:19AM EST Reply to CommentEpic indeed. The depth of the interview is astounding without even considering how reclusive and press shy the Wachowski siblings are normally. Thanks for the great interview, Drew.
David
October 10, 2012 at 11:48AM EST Reply to CommentAwesome piece. I am so excited to see CA.
ungruntled
October 10, 2012 at 12:44PM EST Reply to CommentBravo. I wish every filmmaker interview could be like this.
jeves23
October 10, 2012 at 1:10PM EST Reply to CommentFantastic piece, Drew. I agree with Lana - keep fighting the good fight. Yours is one of the freshest, boldest, and most poignant voices in online film criticism and discussion today.
I am looking forward to this film with probably more zeal than any film in recent memory, and it is the willingness to reach high, to drive the art form of cinema forward, and to challenge viewers on emotional, aesthetic and perhaps even spiritual levels that makes the Wachowski's one of the great mainstream* voices of today.
I am so glad that they, and Tom Tykwer, are doing press for this film, and that we finally get to hear their passion and their joy for their work - even though I am largely a big believer in the work speaking for itself, it is refreshing to read/watch these interviews, and get a real answer/discussion rather than the typical Hollywood sound bite.
*Well, perhaps not quite mainstream anymore, but not exactly obscure art house directors, either.
Paul S
October 10, 2012 at 1:26PM EST Reply to CommentGood write up Drew.
I hope it lives up to the hype that's starting to build up for it. Like James Cameron and Robert Zemeckis, The Wachowski Starship seem to be the film industry's technology pioneers and will use them to tell us a good story.
Like most people, the first time I saw The Matrix, I was blown away by "bullet time", so I was very interested when they spoke of the evolutionary aspect of this effect that they will use for Jupiter Ascending.
adfsds
October 10, 2012 at 1:44PM EST Reply to Commentjust fantastic
alphabet
October 10, 2012 at 3:05PM EST Reply to CommentDrew this was amazing. Strong work sir, keep fighting that good fight indeed.
Fawst
October 10, 2012 at 3:06PM EST Reply to CommentWhat a great piece, Drew. I remember watching the featurettes on The Matrix back in the day, and the passion the Wachowskis had was infectious. I'm really looking forward to Cloud Atlas, but you just teased the hell out of me with that comment on the "evolutionary jump from bullet-time." Now I'm going to be disappointed if it doesn't happen!
blue_flames LOL yep, consider my interest piqued too :)
October 10, 2012 at 3:48PM ESTMore "epic" interviews please, I don't care who they're with!
Bananaman
October 10, 2012 at 5:32PM EST Reply to CommentExcellent article Drew. I love the Wachowski's attitude to film-making.
Mark
October 10, 2012 at 5:57PM EST Reply to CommentWhat a spectacular piece, Drew. You have an inherent understanding of how to communicate experiences. This article wonderfully illustrates the publicity and interview process, not only from your perspective, but also from the Wachowskis, or at least the way they carried themselves. I think the mystique has fallen away. I can't speak for other movie fans, but I'm happy to add a love affair for the creators to my already entrenched love affair for their work.
TimB
October 10, 2012 at 7:24PM EST Reply to CommentWonderful, wonderful piece. I was a huge fan of "Speed Racer," and though I found the "Matrix" sequels to be disappointing, there has always been a clear theme of "ambition" running through all of their work... and hat no doubt looks to continue with "Cloud Atlas," which I am absolutely dying to see.
Thanks for this, Drew. The passion that comes through in your writing is unmatched by any other "film analyst/critic" on the net, in my opinion.
Billy Shears
October 11, 2012 at 12:23AM EST Reply to CommentGood in-depth write-up Drew. I was among the lucky crowd in the Princess of Wales Theatre at the film's world Premiere in Toronto last month. Seeing the long-form trailer this summer compelled me to catch this epic movie at the earliest opportunity. I had no idea the film's cast & crew would be there; it was a pleasant surprise for me, as the 10-minute ovation was for them. I'm looking fwd to seeing again when it's released on the 26th. I do think this is the W's "2001" and will be seen as a classic, innovative landmark film in future years if not right away. I don't know how they can follow this act... but they're incredibly creative, so who knows.
Seal's_Wet
October 11, 2012 at 10:43AM EST Reply to CommentDrew, big fan of your writing and the site. Just one question how come you didn't ask them why they completely ripped off Grant Morrison's
"The Invisibles" for the first Matrix movie?
MMorse Because that would've been inexcusably rude?
October 11, 2012 at 4:56PM ESTSEAL'S_WET Of course a certain amount of tact would have to be used and I wouldn't advocate a “shock jock” approach or a blind siding but I call foul on these artists (who are obviously talented individuals which makes it even more egregious) using the mystique of inaccessibility shield themselves from what basically boils down to plagiarism. It is certainly not my intention to troll this thread (hell I’ll be seeing Cloud Atlas opening weekend not sure if that makes me a hypocrite) but I think there’s an interesting conversation to be had regarding what happens when artists (especially talented artists you like) conduct themselves questionably. This isn’t an example of a company ripping off an artist ala Marvel screwing Kirby, that narrative is unfortunately not that surprising, but artists of this caliber thieving or at the very least going out of their way to ignore a clear inspiration (that was also an active part of the production process they passed around issues of the comic on set!) is disheartening. I’m genuinely interested in hearing other opinions from posters and I apologize if my initial post came off as troll-ish but I do think this stuff matters and I find it disconcerting when others don’t see the act of one artist outright taking of ideas and aesthetics of another without any acknowledgement or compensation to be a problem. At the end of the day you expect this type of behavior from the stereotypical cut-throat executive but I would like to think that artists like the “Wachowski Starship” (admittedly hilarious / awesome nickname) are above this type of behavior. Am I missing something?
October 12, 2012 at 9:30AM ESTDunyain Sound's like "Seal's_Wet" has a case of troll's remorse. The Matrix was certainly inspired by Invisibles, (among other things) but calling it a "complete ripoff" is childish and fanboyish. When will someone ask Morrison why he ripped off Michael Moorcock's "Jerry Cornelius" books when he made Invisibles.
November 23, 2012 at 5:56PM ESTBradley Valentine
October 12, 2012 at 8:42AM EST Reply to CommentAmazing, Drew, really. I never say this kind of thing because seems so ass-kissy. But thank you. The former brothers are some of my very favorite filmmakers and, as everybody knows, access is rare. So it’s great to have this. Good job, man.
chainlinkspiral
October 12, 2012 at 5:23PM EST Reply to CommentKiller read, as always. Thanks to all involved for making some magic.
PierreFutsch
October 13, 2012 at 4:23AM EST Reply to CommentGood morning,
i just read your article. From page 1 to 9 straight (with a quick jump to go read the newyorker article) and it gave me chills and emotions. That is a very rare feeling while reading interviews and review. Thanks for this. Also thanks for making me meet the"Wachowski Starship", i thought i knew who they were but i was wrong, i met them today and i would gladly be the red shirt of their crew after reading your article. Thanks you sir, and thanks the Wachowski Starship for us, for being so open and real, thanks. A thousand thanks.