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Recap: 'Big Brother' Thursday - Another double-elimination

How would Ian's Head of Household end?

<p>Dan of "Big Brother"</p>

Dan of "Big Brother"

Credit: CBS

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Britney... Nooooooooooo!!!!

Sorry. I was out of the country and missed all of last week's "Big Brother" drama and I spent much of this afternoon catching up on Dan's Funeral, The Cutest Eviction Showdown in "Big Brother" History, the tragic exit of Britney (NOOOO!!!!), The Return of Jesse, Ian's Bismuth and... well... everything else.

I was only away for a week, so it's hard to believe all that has happened.

So Dan's a brilliant sociopath, suddenly? And Frank's a carrot? And Jenn still thinks she made a big strategic move? How peculiar.

And Thursday (September 6) is a double-elimination episode?

Let's see how things go... After the break...

9:01 p.m. ET. Uncovered shoulders! I missed you when I was away, Julie Chen.

9:03 p.m. Frank and Joe are looking antsy on the hot-seat and they don't even know that we're doing the "One Week of 'Big Brother' in an hour" thing once again.

9:04 p.m. We pick up in the aftermath of the Power of Veto meeting that aired last night. Joe screams that he hopes Frank finally sends home.

9:05 p.m. Jenn is awful. 

9:05 p.m. Frank thinks he has the votes to survive, but he's clueless that he's really Dan's target. Or at least he's clueless for now. Frank and Dan agree that they're golden. But then... Dan is cutting apples and talking to Frank and he somehow speculates what will happen if Joe wins HoH this week. This is doubly ridiculous, because Joe can't win anything and because Frank thinks that Joe is going home. Wow. That was a pretty bone-headed slip-up from Super-Genius Dan.

9:07 p.m. The Screaming Tomato comes out to make sure that Ian only intends him as a pawn. Seeing Ian restlessly rocking on the couch has become weirdly poignant after he explained his ADHD in last week's episode. Ian knows biographical facts about Houdini and he tries to reassure Joe that all's under control. 

9:09 p.m. Dan's staring at the Memory Wall trying to make sure he has all of his ducks in a row. Get it? Quack Pack? Ducks? The only free variable that Dan can't predict is Joe winning Head of Household. Dan interrogates the Screaming Tomato, who tries reassuring him that he'd put other people on the block. Then Joe goes to bed and when Dan walks in in the dark, Joe accidently out their conversation thinking Dan was somebody else. "Am I talking to Barney Rubble? Because all that's upstairs is a bunch of rocks?" Dan asks. Yup. There are some DUMB "Big Brother" players this season. That's why I can't give Dan any real credit for brilliance. Yes. He pulled some impressive strings last week and this week, but whose strings should he be given credit for pulling? Frank is all hair and no head. Jenn's barely in this game at all. And making Danielle cry to manipulate everybody? That's just COLD.

9:11 p.m. Julie tells the hamsters the double-eviction twist. They're shocked.

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9:12 p.m. Frank tells the hamsters that they should keep him because he can't compete the next HoH and he vows to be grateful if they keep him.  "Well, I know I'm the single biggest threat... in the kitchen," Joe says. "You've gotta vote with your hearts," he adds. Neither of those speeches were presuasive.

9:13 p.m. Live-voting time: Dan votes to evict Frank and plugs for his website. Danielle votes to evict Frank. Jenn votes to evict Joe. Shane votes to evict Frank. And that's it for 21st Century William Katt.

9:15 p.m. Julie tells the hamsters that Frank has been eliminated. He looks resigned, but also a little shell-shocked. Ian apologizes as he keeps doing every time he makes a big game move. Frank takes his stuffed bear and leaves. Back in the house, Ian apologizes to Jenn as well. What, Ian? You didn't apologize to Frank's bear?

9:16 p.m. "I am shell-shocked," Frank admits. "Once again, they lied to me," Frank says of Dan and Danielle. Julie points out that Frank only hugged Jenn and Frank has critical things to say about Dan. "Why do you think they did you like they did," Gangsta Julie asks. Frank doesn't think his new alliance was legitimate. True story. Frank says being too trusting was his biggest fault, but he knows that he hasn't had any allies for weeks. Frank was up six times. That's a bit crazy. "I wouldn't change anything for the world, except maybe a coulple things at the end," Frank says.

9:19 p.m. "Your biggest mistake in the game was not getting rid of Dan," Joe bellows. Shane says it's nothing personal. "You are the ultimate threat to me or anybody else winning this thing," Ian says. "I respect the heck out of you," Dan says, hoping there are no hard feelings. "Absolutely hard feelings," Frank tells Julie.

9:24 p.m. Speed Head of Household Time!

9:24 p.m. This game is called "Make Your Case." Julie reads Chopping Block pleas from various contestants and the players have to ID the offending hamster. Jenn gets out to a lead. Is she about to win HoH and make me feel guilty for insulting her game worthiness? Soon, though, it's a tie between Jenn, Dan and Danielle. Joe and Shane are very bad at this game.

9:28 p.m. HoH this week comes down to Jenn, Danielle and Dan trying to guess how many minutes Jodi was in the game. Dan wins! A harder question for the hamsters would have been asking any of them to remember ANYTHING about Jodi.

9:32 p.m. Probably not much suspense in Dan's eviction picks, right?

9:33 p.m. Joe sits right down on the Chopping Block. He knows his place.

9:33 p.m. Dan nominates Joe and also... Ian. Realistically, if Dan figured he had the votes, he really ought to be targeting Ian tonight. Of the people remaining, Ian's the only other player who even semi-plausibly could get Jury votes against Dan, right? Otherwise, it's a house of guppies and one shark. Dan says he only put Ian on the block because he'd never been before. Do we believe that?

9:38 p.m. Quickie PoV time!

9:39 p.m. The game is called "Swimming with Sharks." The hamsters have to navigate a shark fin through a maze. The "Jaws"-y music is silly, but Ian wins and he's mighty proud of himself.

9:42 p.m. "Will the nominations change? I'm pretty sure they will," Julie says. So... Back to the block for Jenn?

9:46 p.m. Dan's bossing everybody around. Jenn opens a door into Ian's face. Chaos is ensuing. Ian tries leaving. "No, Ian. I'm talking to you," Dan snaps. He's psychotic, y'all. Ian leaves. Dan snaps his fingers and orders Jenn back in. "Don't make me come in there," Julie says, aware that Dan's dictatorship is taking time away from commercials.

9:48 p.m. "Wish I had two of these jokers," Ian says in a playful homage. He takes himself off the block. Danielle is already slack-jawed before Dan puts her up.

9:49 p.m. Danielle plays "confused" and "clueless" masterfully. As always, though, I'm not sure if she's playing. Theoretically, Dan could have warned her in advance. Or he may have just thrown her up there without warning because he likes messing with her. Between Dan and Shane, the campaign of psychological warfare against Danielle this season has been ridiculous.

9:52 p.m. Let's hear what Danielle and Joe have to say. Danielle loves all of us and she doesn't want to leave. She also flashes America, which is a good argument. "All's I want to stress is a strong-ass loyalty," says Joe, who may have been distracted by Danielle's skirt-flipping.

9:53 p.m. Shane votes to evict Joe and save his "girlfriend." Jenn votes to evict Joe. And that's it for The Screaming Red Tomato. Ian also votes to evict Joe. And APOLOGIZES. Gracious, man.

9:54 p.m. Julie tells the hamsters that Joe has been eliminated. Unlike Frank, Joe makes the hugging rounds and tells them all that he loves them and it's just a game.

9:55 p.m. Joe exits shrieking. We would have expected nothing less. Back in the House? Lots of whispering, none of it intelligible. 

9:56 p.m. "Sometimes you've gotta come up with a big win in your life," Joe says, crediting Ian for deserving it. "Showmance. I can't go there," Joe says of why Danielle stayed around and he was voted out. Joe yells that he tried to win every challenge and that it wasn't his strategy to lose. "What exactly is that on your chin?" Julie asks, concluding an epically bad exit interview.

What'd you think of the double-elimination episode? Are you going to miss Frank? I know you won't miss Joe. Do you think Dan was really targeting Ian? And could Danielle get pity votes if she makes it to the end?

Dan-feinberg-sm
Daniel Fienberg
Executive Editor
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
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  • Default-avatar

    Luke

    Here's some insider information. If Ian hadn't won the Veto, he would have gone home. Glad he stayed. It wouldve been too easy for Dan to get to the final two if he left.

    September 6, 2012 at 10:07PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Lindz

    I couldn't even watch Dan was pissing me off too much. Lying and manipulating just comes to him too naturally. He's nothing but a scum bucket. I'm really going to miss Frank; he deserved to win this. If they do the cash prize at the end for America's favorite house guest he certainly will have my vote.

    September 6, 2012 at 10:48PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism Word.

      September 6, 2012 at 10:55PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Carol hated Frank but he did need the money since he
      doesn't have a JOB! The money could have afford him more time to sit at home on his azz
      and manipulate people. Glad he's gone. No disrespect to you Lindz, just my opinion.

      September 7, 2012 at 6:00AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Jobin Take a look at Dan's website...Frank isn't the only one who needs the money. ZING!

      September 7, 2012 at 12:15PM EST
  • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

    Mulderism

    So annoyed. I hoped against hope that Frank would somehow survive. But it was not to be. The dude used up all of his 9 lives. Frank did everything he could do I guess but there wasn't anything left. He should take comfort that he played a good honest game and that he would have won the finals for sure against any of them.

    Not sure what Dan's strategy was. Was he going to back door Jenn? Back door Ian? Ian is his biggest competitor now for jury votes.

    I gotta rail on Dan again. I still think he's dishonored himself with his 'win at all costs' attitude. I mean the guy is a high school teacher. Is this the example he wants to set? That it is okay to swear on a Bible and on your wife and then lie through your teeth? The ends justify the means?

    I'm only rooting for Ian and Jenn now.

    September 6, 2012 at 10:54PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Mulderism - Serious question: Why are you rooting for Jenn? Other than one week where she got to be the instrument for a big move -- a move she never would have considered making on her own -- what has she done all season?

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 12:33AM EST
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism I agree Daniel but at least she tried something as was loyal to the end. She's exactly one move ahead of Shane and Danielle who haven't done anything I can tell except use up hair products.

      September 7, 2012 at 1:08AM EST
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Mulderism - Danielle's a problem. Can't argue there. Shane's won a couple challenges and executed one of the most confused and stupid HoH reigns ever. So he's got that going for him!

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 1:09AM EST
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      Brandon It's funny to see how people view Danielle who only watch the tv show. She's actually the biggest liar of the season and is possibly insane. Also, she's definitely the 3rd best player in the house behind Dan and Ian. Her ability to lie instantly has been off the charts and her interaction with Shane is so much crazier than you will ever see on the tv episodes.

      September 7, 2012 at 6:39AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Jobin Dan was clearly going after Ian last night. Can't blame him, because Ian is his biggest threat right now. At this point in the game no flimsy excuse "you haven't been up yet" is going to explain why he was going up.

      I'm surprised Ian/Jenn voted to keep Danielle, I don't see the upside in it for them. Danielle is more loyal to Dan and Shane then either of them, why wouldn't they want to break up group? That group is more dangerous than the Shane/Joe pair.

      Even more so because it removes a pawn in Joe, who everyone should want to keep around for the final 3 and final 2. Especially Jenn, since Joe is the only person she could win against in a final vote.

      Rooting for Ian as I have been. Biggest hope is that Ian can convince the rest of the idioits left that Dan is the biggest threat to everyone's chances at the money.

      September 7, 2012 at 11:47AM EST
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      Jobin Brandon,
      What exactly has she been lying about?

      3rd best left behind Dan/Ian is the biggest backhanded compliment ever, haha, even funny because it's very true.

      I'm pretty sure everyone has an idea she might have a bit of the crazy gene, from her reaction to Shane's use of the word "girlfriend."

      September 7, 2012 at 11:50AM EST
  • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

    Mulderism

    To answer your questions Daniel I think Dan was planning to backdoor Jenn but chickened out. He had to make a snap decision so he may not have thought things out completely.

    And Danielle absolutely should not get a single vote - pity or otherwise. If its her in the end though she will get Britney and Shane's vote but she hasn't made a single move all summer. She's about as useless as Joe but easier on the eyes and ears.

    September 6, 2012 at 11:04PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle Mulderism,

      I disagree that Dan was planning to backdoor Jenn and then chickened out, I think it's Dan's plan to protect Jenn and take her to the final 2. Of everyone left she'll be the easiest to win against.

      Also he HAD to make sure that the person sitting next to Joe had enough friends left in the game to ensure that Joe left. Jenn doesn’t have that, so putting her up at that point would have been too big a gamble. So what he was doing at the last minute was making sure that if Dani went up she was safe, so he needed to make sure Ian and Jenn were on the same page. He didn’t have to ask Shane because he knows Shane won’t vote Dani out.

      His jury thinking is probably this

      Danielle and Shane both have friends on the jury, and even though most of the viewers despise Dani, there are people on the jury like Britney who like her.

      Ian can be seen as a strong player by the jury voters, even though most people at home see that he's easily swayed by Dan.

      Jenn is Dan's best bet for an easy win. She barely did anything and when she did manage a "big move" by taking Dan down, it was only by his manipulation.

      If we see Dan winning the final HOH and it's Jenn and one of the other 3 for him to choose from it will be Jenn that Dan keeps in the game.

      September 7, 2012 at 12:41PM EST
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism But wouldn't Joe be a better person to take to finals over Jenn? She probably has more friends on the jury and she made at least one move this summer which is more than Joe did.

      P.S. I read your posts below. Much food for thought.

      September 7, 2012 at 1:44PM EST
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle Reply to comment...

      September 7, 2012 at 1:57PM EST
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle We don't see it on the show but I've been reading a message board thread from people watching the live feeds and apparently Joe was gunning for Dan. Last night's scene where Joe mistook Dan for Shane and immediately started badmouthing Dan illustrated for Dan that he can't trust Joe at all, or in fact use him to his own end.

      From what I understand Joe has been hating on Dan since Dan made Dani cry at the funeral. So while Joe would be a good person to sit beside Dan in front of the jury, for Dan he's too much of a wildcard to keep around.
      .

      September 7, 2012 at 2:02PM EST
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      Jobin Mulderism,
      Dan wanted to take the floater Jenn to the final because he has a final 2 deal with her. So there is a slim chance that Jenn would take him to the final 2, should she have the option (as unlikely as Jenn winning the final HOH is).

      With Joe, Dan had no final 2 deal, and it was clear Joe was with Shane, which was already obvious, then blatantly obvious after Joe sleeply spilling the beans about his convo with Dan to Dan.

      September 7, 2012 at 2:03PM EST
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism Good points.

      September 7, 2012 at 2:07PM EST
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    Jammees

    Wow a Britney fantard wrote this for sure. Dan's an amazing player and people need to recognize that. Big Brother is a game were you lie and manipulate. Get over it. I'm sure if Britney had been the one doing it, you all would be bowing down to her

    September 7, 2012 at 12:12AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Jammees - "Get over it"? "Fantard"?

      Good times.

      I shouldn't engage.

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 12:32AM EST
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      Mike As ridiculous as the comment is, he's not necessarily wrong. I do recall your gushing response to Boston Rob's game on Redemption Island, for instance, and I'm guessing that cast didn't have too many MENSA members.

      September 7, 2012 at 3:38PM EST
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Mike - I'm not sure what you're saying he's not necessarily wrong about, since Boston Rob isn't Britney. I think you actually proved that he's exactly wrong and that I can appreciate lying and manipulating game if done correctly.

      Or are you just saying that I play favorites? [That's not what Captain Fantard was saying, really, but whatever...] Of course I do. So do you...

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 5:45PM EST
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      Mike Thanks for the response, Dan. I was just saying you're prone to play favorites on the "well, the cast was stupid" count, citing Rob on RI as an example of that. I certainly play favorites in general, it's human nature, but on the specific count of "bad competition" I think I've been able to stay pretty unbiased, since I never invoke the "bad competition" argument for anyone, whether I'm not a fan (Russell) or love them to death (Boston Rob, Kim, and Dan) for 2 reasons. A. Because in my opinion, every season of these shows, the cast is primarily full of fools and/or sheep. B. Because it's hard to judge whether the cast are more idiotic than normal, or the good players are just better than normal. It seems that the bad competition argument always coincides with seasons with the most dominant players (Thailand, Micronesia, Samoa, HvsV, BB14, One World, Redemption Island, Tocantins, etc).

      "I'm sure if Britney had been the one doing it, you all would be bowing down to her"
      That was what I read as him accusing you of playing favorites.

      September 7, 2012 at 6:40PM EST
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Mike - There was nothing so reasoned in Jammees' comment. I'd argue that certain things Rob did had a logistical difficulty that went beyond just herding sheep. His ability to manage, utilize and deploy Philip has always been underrated, for example. Also, Rob physically and intellectually dominated the challenges in a game that actually requires more than dumb luck. A well-played game of "Survivor" strategy will ALWAYS be superior in all ways to a well-played game of "Big Brother" strategy, IMO.

      And I invoke the "bad competition" mantra mostly when it's true. Like with Kim on "Survivor" last season. Expert game-play? ABSOLUTELY. One of the all-time greats? Almost certainly. But could she have done what she did if the Men hadn't literally sacrificed immunity to vote one of their own out at one of the pivotal moments of the game? I'm not so sure. That's a level of "stupid" that, to me, justifies questioning the level of competition.

      Anyway, though, I'm not questioning the aptitude of what Dan did. As I said in the recap, the only other person currently playing who even deserves hypothetical jury votes is Ian and I'm not a huge fan of Ian's apology-heavy strategy... To me, Dan's Funeral was a season-winning move. And I never said otherwise. I just don't have to especially love Dan.

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 7:00PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Mike Well, you did say you can't give Dan any credit for brilliance, which was the part that kind of rankled me, since I do think all the moving parts and little flourishes of Dan's Funeral taken together were reasonably brilliant, at least in the context of a reality TV show, but fair enough. I don't disagree that Dan is harder to embrace by the way, but really how many people in BB are embraceable? (Danielle Reyes, Britney, Stein, Dan and the immortal Dr. Will are pretty much my full list, where it's probably 30 deep on Survivor)

      As for Rob, his game in RI was great, but you could say similar things about anyone I mentioned in my last post. All of them might not have been AS dominant as they were on their seasons in a random season, but they all displayed an aptitude level that went above simply bad competition.

      Basically the thrust of my argument is this. Who played a dominant game to the degree of Rob/Kim/Dan of BB or Survivor on a season with 'good competition'? Dr. Will and Boogie on BB All Stars? Todd and Amanda in China? Yul in Cook Islands?

      September 7, 2012 at 7:37PM EST
    • Gizmo_bigger_talkback_profile

      dan Mike - I can certainly acknowledge that either it takes "weak" competition to facilitate a "brilliant" performance on one of these shows, or a "brilliant" performance on one of these shows makes any competition look "weak" in comparison. It's hard to know which comes first. So at that point, it comes down to who you like, I suppose. And the best performances, brilliance-wise -- Rob Cesternino being the most obvious example -- sometimes don't even get you close to winning...

      -Daniel

      September 7, 2012 at 7:48PM EST
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism I'd just like to chime in to say that I've been to BB school this summer and have learned a lot of BB strategy through these talkbacks.

      There have been a lot of comparisons between BB and Survivor and I have really come to appreciate what a different game BB is. In fact I enjoy BB a lot more now than survivor because of the different rules it as through POV and HOH. it seems to open up so many different possibilities and power shifts than Survivor.

      Really good stuff. I regret not watching BB earlier. I feel I've really missed out of some good TV.

      September 8, 2012 at 3:15AM EST
  • Crumb_talkback_profile

    CrumbThumber

    I am guessing the plan was to get Ian out, but then when he won veto, Dan decided to put up Dani to show Ian that he was just a pawn in the first place.

    While it is pretty difficult to root for Dan right now, I think it is equally difficult to root for anyone else for a different reason.

    September 7, 2012 at 6:14AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle I don't understand the disdain for Dan, I really don't. So many people come into the Big Brother house with self righteous goals of "staying true to themselves" and playing a "clean game"? Really? That's your goal? Then you signed up for the wrong game. That's like saying "I think I'm a pretty good football player, so I'm going to play tackle football... however I don't believe in physically hurting people so I won't tackle anyone.” And then getting offended when someone dares to tackle you and not play the game in the way you THINK it should be played.

      I understand why the producers cast people who have a tendency get emotionally caught up in the game, or people who have a fantasy idea of how they’ll win the game by riding their high horse of honesty or honor. Because when things don’t go their way these people are damned good television. They cry, they yell and they verbally harass other people in the house.

      That’s why when you have someone like a Dan (or Dr. Will) in the house everyone else looks like “idiots” for not dealing with them the way you the viewer thinks they should.
      Because Dan understands the game and he doesn’t let it hurt his feelings when he’s put on the block. He doesn’t follow the HOH around and berate the person, he doesn’t point fingers at people for lying to him. No, he sits back, rubs his chin and thinks “How do I get out of this?” Was the funeral ridiculous? Yeah it was and he knew it was, but it had the desired effect. It played on their emotions, made them think he was throwing in the towel and that he had turned on the one person who seemed to be sticking with him.
      If Dan had walked out of his “exile” room and grabbed Frank and gone up to the HOH room to give his pitch, the rest of the houseguests would have been scrambling and wondering what he was up to. They would have been standing in line to talk to Frank, and Frank being the player he is probably would have been swayed away from Dan’s plan. However after the funeral no one even questioned what was going on up in the HOH room. They thought Dan had thrown in the towel, and if Ian was the student of Big Brother like he says he is, he should not have been snowed like this. Season 10 taught us that Dan simply takes a punch, smiles politely and walks away and thinks of a new plan.

      I’m tired of everyone boo hooing over how unfair it was for Frank and what a great player he is. He’s NOT a great player, he’s a halfway good player, he’s not well rounded and he doesn’t understand the game. So he was bound to lose sooner or later, there was no way this guy was ever making it to the end playing the way he played. Sure it’s pretty amazing how many competitions he won he never planned ahead. When he had Boogie (who I call the shadow of Will and half the player Will is) he scraped through a couple of tight spots. But the two of them were playing such a narrow focused game that it was no surprise that the house turned on them the moment they had a chance. Boogie had the huge target of being the All Stars winner (a title Dr. Will pretty much served to him) and Frank had a huge target by showing way too early what a big threat he was. Basically Boogie and Frank were done in by their own egos, plain and simple.

      Frank’s a sprinter and Dan is a long distance runner, that’s the difference in their game play and this is a long game. Even Dan in his diary room sessions was amazed that he suddenly had Frank watching his back. He tries everything he can to outwit the other players, he comes at it from different angles and because he takes nothing personally he’s not afraid to promise someone something and then take it back if he knows it’ll help his game, “Game” being the keyword here.

      And don’t bother harping on the “but he swore on this and that.” If I was going into the Big Brother House or Survivor I’d sit my Mom and my wife down and I’d say “I’ll probably swear on your lives that I’m doing something but I’ll probably be lying” you cool with that?” and they’d high five me and wish me luck. If anyone in Dan’s life is offended that he swore on them I’ll be shocked. As for swearing on the bible, many, many more atrocious deeds have been performed in the world by swearing on the bible then a schoolteacher fibbing to a guy on tv so that he can stay in a game.

      I can understand people disliking Dan’s gameplay based on their own views of how to play the game. What I don’t understand is seeing on twitter and even here people calling him a piece of shit or a disgusting human being. I even saw a post where someone said Dan was probably going to go back home to find himself divorced.

      Come on people, it’s a game, yes it’s a high stakes game but it’s just a game. Dan right now is playing spot on, because he’s got people covering his back while he’s waiting to push them out the door. Frank lost because he could only play the game one way. Dan keeps evolving and figuring out what his next move is.

      If Ian catches on and can get Dan out first then Ian has my respect. However right now he’s doing what Dan tells him to do. That doesn’t make Dan evil, or a piece of shit, that just means Dan understands this game better then they do.

      September 7, 2012 at 12:10PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Alanrocks Reply to comment...

      September 7, 2012 at 12:18PM EST
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      Alanrocks Biddle. Perfectly and eloquently said. People who get offended at anyone, on a personal level, for playing a game where wearing one or many faces that are not true to other people are an integral part of the game, need to move onto adulthood. Its one thing to dislike a player (I really dont care for Ian (or Danielle and Shane, but for reasons different than for Ian)) but to think they are a piece of garbage in real life (and yes, this is soooooo not real life), need to look in the mirror and ask why they get so personally upset over a silly game on tv where one of the things everyone does is lie (yes, everyone, even worthless Danielle).

      September 7, 2012 at 12:21PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Jobin 1) Disagree with your views on the funeral. It wasn't the reason Dan was able to talk to Frank with out anyone being concerned, every time someone gets nominated they go and talk to the HOH one on one.

      Again, it was Dan's revealing of the quack pack to Frank that got Frank/Jenn to save him. The whole quack pack found the funeral utterly bizare, if anything that made them more suspicious of what the hell that was suppose to all mean. But bringing those concerns to Frank wasn't going to stop Frank/Jenn from saving Dan at that point.

      In summary, Dan could have flipped Frank/Jenn without tearing Danielle apart emotionally.

      2) Disagree completely about your views on Frank. Frank was always going to be seen as a physical threat, even if he didn't win anything. For evidence, just look at this year with Wil being a "physical threat" even though he wasn't any good in the comps.

      Frank had no ability to play the "long game" because everyone was always going to see him as a huge threat. You can't play a "long game" if everyone in the house has plans to vote you out, at the latest, with 6-8 people left.

      3) I could care less on the swearing on this or that as well.

      But the point is not how viewers perceive that kind of lying, its how are the jury members are going to react to it.

      You have to know/predict how the jury is going to react if you lie to them, after swearing on _____.

      Based on the exit interview, it didn't seem Frank was in the "it's all part of the game" camp, in Frank's view that is just something you wouldn't do. Which could end up being a deciding factor if Frank could vote for Dan to win, as it MAY be for the rest of the jury members.

      The thing is if Dan loses becauses he swore on the bible (etc.), then he didn't deserve to win, because he should have known enough about the jury to understand they wouldn't be on board with that.

      If Dan wins because the jury doesn't care, then that is fine too.

      Win or Lose, Dan isn't evil or a POS because he swore on something or not. (Now the Danielle funeral thing...he's a bit evil in my opinion.)

      September 7, 2012 at 12:51PM EST
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle Jobin,

      1.)You're right, people do run upstairs with the HOH, and every time that happens other players are on alert and start digging to see what's up. I'm not saying Dan's funeral helped convince Frank. I'm saying it gave him the breathing room to deal with Frank and not have the Quack Pack (horrible name) be paranoid and try to diffuse whatever Dan said. They fully believed Dan had given up and he needed them to do that without worry that someone like Britney would be offering a counter proposal. Dan’s other goal was to sesperate Dani from himself in the eyes of the remaining players to take any heat off of her when he came off the block. Whether you agree with his reasoning or not, he did have very clearly thought out reasons for doing what he did. He didn’t do it just to be “evil”. But you can’t argue with the outcome, it worked like a charm.

      2.) Then why is Shane still there? He's a physical threat too, I don't deny that Shane is fairly dumb, but the guy has more social game then Frank. Frank relied soley on on his skill in competition, he made no effort to get to know anyone else. It also didn't help that he and Boogie strutted around the house like they owned it. You CAN be physically good in the competitions and still be good socially and strategically. Frank was not. He put all his eggs in the Boogie basket and it burned him, it was a very narrowly focused game that he played.

      3.) Which is why Dan is working so hard to get Jenn to the final 2. In his mind they'll have no choice but to admit that Dan played a better game then Jenn. Like I said, Dan understands this game better then anyone who is left. If you think he’s not working out how to deal with the jury you’re wrong. If he can’t get Jenn to the final 2 then Dani is his next safe bet. Even though she has more friends he might be able to convince them that he carried her to the end.

      The fact is, right now it looks like Dan's deeds are screwing him with the jury but I've seen neough of these games to know that all Dan needs is the right person sitting beside him.

      I still contend that Dan's funeral speech was neccessary to keep the rest of the house dazed and confused while he worked his deal out with Frank. If he hadn't done it's possible that Britney who was a very paranoid player would have gone in to Frank to say "So uh, what did he say to you?" and Frank could have been pushed into telling her he knows about the quack pack... at which point Brtiney would have had a few days to figure out how to diffuse the bomb Dan just lit. Dan's speech was a smoke bomb and no one recovered from it tn time.


      September 7, 2012 at 1:22PM EST
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      Jobin 1) Still don't see it. Even if they ask questions to Dan/Frank about their conversation alone, they can easily just lie and say that Dan is still his main target.

      How was Brit going to flip Frank back to her side, even if Brit had knowledge of Dan's revealing of the Quack Pack? The revealing of the quack pack, and the plan to keep it intact by pulling Danielle and Dan both off the block, clearly proved that Brit was lying to Frank when she made her final 2 deal with him JUST DAYS earlier.

      There is no way she's coming back from that. The best offer she could have made was Brit/Ian team up with Jenn/Frank instead of Dan/Danielle, but that's a pretty hard sell considering Brit was just caught lying, and Ian was revealed to be a bigger liar than Frank had even originally thought.

      "Distancing himself from Danielle" was pointless. Dan's plan with Frank/Jenn was to work with Danielle. Futhermore, it did nothing to influence the Danielle/Brit eviction vote, Shane (and by proxy Joe) were going to vote to keep Danielle over Brit, since Shane viewed Danielle as closer to him, than he was with Brit, who was closer to Ian.

      His treatment of Danielle at the funeral was a bit evil, it was unneccesary and he clearly knew that it would completely break her "but if you knew I was going to do that you wouldn't have cried."

      Again it all worked out, I just didn't see how that had to be part of the plan to save himself for the week.

      2) Shane has the personality and intelligence of a rock, and that makes him controllable. Part of the reason you keep Shane around is compete against Frank too.

      Frank has far more personality and was much better at comps, hence he was a bigger threat. Then once the ball kept rolling and number of times he was nominated kept growing, it just kept increasing the target on his back because it would make a great final speech.

      Frank did create multiple alliances and was always looking to protect himself. It's not like he was a floater who never considered strategy. He just never had a chance because his alliances kept turning on him because he was such and end game threat. Even if Frank was SUPER paranoid and untrustworthy, I see him resigned to the same fate, the only way he was getting to the final 2, was by a ridiculous consecutive run of HOHs and POVs.

      Case in point: Put Dan's mind in Frank's body, and he has to play an entirely different game because Frank's body brings with it a new set of problems.

      Dan is playing a great game so far, with Ian second, the rest aren't even close to those two. But crapping all over Frank's social game, and boasting about Dan's are comparing apples to oranges. Their social games all have to work within the framework of their competition abilities, or perceived competition abilities by others in the house.

      3) Everyone wants to be sitting with Jenn in the end, because it gives them an overwhelming chance to win.

      The fact that he takes a floater to the end, doesn't mean he doesn't have to worry about jury voters perception of his swearing on this or that though during the game.

      Because while everyone's plan might be to get to the end with Jenn, she's really the only true floater left, and that is little margin for error between now and the end.

      September 7, 2012 at 1:59PM EST
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle We can go back and forth all day on whether what dan did was pointless. I'm simply looking at it from his point of view, I can imagine in that situation you really just throw out a hail mary and hope to hell it works. He didn't want to take any chances so he was probably thinking 1. "How od I get them off my scent? Oh I know I'll act like I'm admitting defeat. 2. How do I protect Dani who is also on the block? I'll make them hate me for turning on her and she'll get sympathy. You call it evil I call it Dan covering his bases, and whether you agree or not he was watching Dani's back. Plain and simple. I will say this, Dan sometimes over plays, I can't disagree with that. I do not however think any move he makes is malicious, he simply looks at who he's dealing with and tries to play off their strengths and weaknesses. We've seen players in the past who have chased house guests around harrassing them, calling them names and they say it's part of the game, but really they just get off on it. Anything I see Dan doing here is gameplay, there's no "evil" intent.


      "Frank did create multiple alliances and was always looking to protect himself. It's not like he was a floater who never considered strategy."

      I'd never call Frank a floater, but his skills at strategy were limited as were his social skills. He leaned heavily on Boogie for that, but their egos combined did them in.

      "Case in point: Put Dan's mind in Frank's body, and he has to play an entirely different game because Frank's body brings with it a new set of problems. "

      I completely disagree, Dan with Frank's competitive prowess would have thrown comps to take the heat off himself regardless of whether he could win or not. I know you won't agree with me, but I firmly believe that.


      Oh and let me make something clear here, while I've debating heavily on Dan's side regarding his current strategy don't mistake me for a Dan apologist or fanboy. I in fact was heavily on Brtiney's side, I love that chick, I think she's one of the most watchable and entertaining houseguests that show has had. However when Dan pulled his stunt, I had to give him a golf clap and begrudgingly admit he was playing circles around her.

      September 7, 2012 at 2:22PM EST
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      Jobin 1) Wouldn't the funeral of had same "I'm giving up" effect, had he not made Danielle cry and break her emotionally?

      Making Danielle cry was unnecessary, and making someone cry for no reason is at least somewhat evil.

      2) Disagree with you about Frank leaning on Boogie heavily for strategy and social skills. Frank/Boogie's conversation outside in the chairs when they were both up, it was clear that Frank both grasped the game strategy. Not to mention the countless other times he made alliances.

      Having Boogie as a coach probably didn't help him much, but Frank was screwed because he was SUCH a big final 2 threat.

      I ask again, if Frank was SUPER paranoid instead of SUPER trusting, would it had made it less likely for people to want him out? Of course not.

      3) "Dan with Frank's competitive prowess would have thrown comps to take the heat off himself regardless of whether he could win or not. I know you won't agree with me, but I firmly believe that."

      Throwing comps is believable when you are Dan's size. Throwing comps when you are a workout machine like Frank is not the least bit believable.

      Again, each player has to play a different game based on how they are perceived by their houseguests.

      Dan in Frank's body is a great "What If" but I ultimately don't see how any strategically great player could overcome being that big of a physical target.

      I'm with you on Brit, and respect Dan's ability to pull himself out of harms way last week. I don't think Dan was player circles around her, she just got unlucky honestly, because she was in great shape strategically in the game and hadn't made any mistakes in that respect.

      September 7, 2012 at 2:56PM EST
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism So I'm wondering then what Frank could have done to save himself. Did he really have a fair shot once they pushed the reset button? If they hadn't done the coaches thing at the beginning he could have formed an alliance with, say, Shane and Dan. Kind of like the Brigade a few years ago where the biggest competitors (Lane, Hayden) were in an alliance so they had each others back. Enzo too although he sucked at competitions.

      But since they had the coaches players were more or less forced into an alliance.

      After the reset Mike still had Frank's back but then he needed all the help he could get being the target week after week. So the odds weren't in Frank's favor from the get go.

      September 7, 2012 at 5:21PM EST
    • A_talkback_profile

      belinda Making Danielle cry was cruel but crucial, because the biggest thing the funeral accomplished - besides Dan getting off the block that week - was making people in the house think the DD duo is broken (and would never be as strong as it was). Only Joe remained suspicious (but it's Joe so no one listened to him, and now he's gone), but everyone is surprisingly still duped by that single move that Dan is still reaping benefits from. It allowed him to make that deal with Frank (because he's "alone"), the same deal with Ian (because they're both going solo while Dani's with Shane), and in the f3 deal with Jenn, DD acted like Jenn was the middleman in that threesome (and same goes for the f3 with Shane).

      That's why that move was such a good one, at least for me.

      September 8, 2012 at 4:19AM EST
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    Hoeny Badger

    What really irks me about Dan is he not only lied to Frank's face, but he also lies in the Diary Room telling America that he "really means it" when he made his final 2 deal.Considering that there was no way Frank was going to be HOH the next week, why even bother lieing in the DR like that?

    Frank deserved better, but ultimately it is on him for trusting other people too much. After losing the veto, he should have "pulled a Dan" and told Iain and Shane about Dan blowing up the Quack Pack. From the CBS shows, it seemed to me that Iain and Shane had no idea that Dan blew it up and caused Britney to go home, can a live feeder confirm that was your impression as well?

    From there, Frank could have made a final 3 deal with Ian and Shane, as they would have been really the only players from that point on who have any hope in competitions. Ian and Shane would both be ok with such an arrangement, as they would obviously take each other to the finals, and Frank's only hope would be to earn his finals spot by winning the Final HOH.

    September 7, 2012 at 12:14PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Caricatureandrew4_talkback_profile

      Biddle Badger,

      How do you know Dan was lying at that point? probably when he went into the room he was seriously thinking he might be willing to go all the way with Frank, he was so relieved that this actually worked and I’m pretty sure that DR session was fairly soon after his discussion with Frank, so he was still pretty high off how well it went.
      But after some clear headed thinking he decided that there was no way he could beat Frank in a final 2. Assuming he consciously decided to lie to America is kind of silly, no reason why he would. I put it down to his excitement at the moment.

      As for why Frank didn’t turn on Dan after the POV. That was why Dan’s plan was so well thought out. Frank still firmly believed in their agreement and gambled on it. This is why Dan’s a better player, he would never have left that up to chance, he probably would have dragged the voters aside to ensure his safety.

      September 7, 2012 at 12:23PM EST
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      Alanrocks Why did frank deserve better. I agree he was a much better player than most of the tools left in there now, but his social game kind of sucked. Dan is a master at that part of it, and ending up behind a human shield or two every week. Frank's strategy most of the season was like the Hulk's would be, and his social game the first 80% of the season was to hitch his wagon to Mike. That didnt work out obviously. And by the time he finally got around to really trying to play the social game: (1) everyone else had formed stronger bonds, and (2) his Hulk attitude, which was created because it had to be, threatened or turned everyone off.

      September 7, 2012 at 12:25PM EST
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      HoneyBadger You are right Biddle. Dan is a better player in that regard. If Frank were a better player, he would have made that kind of move which would probably assured his safety all the way to the final 3 (or just given him one more chance to win an HOH or veto to stay alive, which is all he really needed).

      September 7, 2012 at 12:27PM EST
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    Mike

    To the question of giving Dan credit for brilliance, I think it comes down to this... what move in BB history was better than Dan's funeral? (the combo of moves from Chilltown from Kaysar's eviction to Danielle's eviction on All-Stars taken together is the best of any reality show ever, but I'm not sure what single move is up to the level of Dan's move) Danielle convincing Marcellas not to use the veto? That's literally the only one I can think of that's comparable to what Dan did last week, whether the house guests he's playing with are geniuses or not.

    September 7, 2012 at 3:49PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Lana

    Am I the only one who sees some sexual tension between Dan and Danielle? I know Dan's married and Danielle is attracted to Shane, but D&D are very close and there's a lot of what I can only describe as flirting going on between them.

    September 7, 2012 at 8:20PM EST Reply to Comment

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