Tell us what you thought of 'Margaret'
The film hits DVD/Blu-ray today
Anna Paquin in "Margaret"
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Having written pretty much everything we could about Kenneth Lonergan's "Margaret" here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here, it's high time we finally shut up about it. It's been a long strange trip. And the film is in the unique position of having built interest on the way to its home video release more so than its theatrical release, so with that in mind, it seemed like a good idea to solicit opinions today as it hits DVD/Blu-ray. So please, offer up your thoughts on the film when you get around to seeing it. You can rate it above but I'm most interested in whatever dialogue we can generate in the comments section below, so don't be shy. I look forward to your take.
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2012-2013 OSCAR PREDICTIONS
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Actor
Best Actress
Best Supporting Actor
Best Supporting Actress
Best Adapted Screenplay
Best Original Screenplay
Best Cinematography
Best Costume Design
Best Film Editing
Best Makeup And Hairstyling
Best Original Score
Best Original Song
Best Production Design
Best Sound Editing
Best Sound Mixing
Best Visual Effects
Best Animated Feature Film
Best Documentary Feature
Best Foreign Language Film
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupKristopher Tapley
July 10, 2012 at 5:07PM EST Reply to CommentFYI, since a lot of people have been asking me on Twitter, my advice is to start with the extended cut and then check out the theatrical cut. The edits will stick out more that way so you can better consider them, I think.
The theatrical is on iTunes streaming for $3.99. No extended cut, however.
/3rt
July 10, 2012 at 5:17PM EST Reply to CommentPresently only have access to the theatrical version.
/3rt B-
July 12, 2012 at 4:51AM ESTThe whole thing felt like a book translated literally—with bits and pieces trimmed for time. The writer-director in his interview with Guy was telling the truth—I could tell from his blind spots in production that the editing process became a beast, there was a lack of coverage and master shots were wide ones, he was very precious about the whole thing. The male teacher material could be entirely cut—Paquin's performance is fully realized without added secondary drama to the main tragedy of the story.
Mark Ruffalo scared me for the first time ever, he was awesome and poor Allison Janney, when will she have a part where she's recognized with shiny gold men? The whole cast was masterful and I loved the score.
Porter
July 10, 2012 at 5:28PM EST Reply to CommentThis is one of the most profound and striking films of recent memory, a true work of art! With stunning performances from Anna Paquin and J. Smith-Cameron. Absolutely masterful, destined to become a cult-classic!
Will someone release Nico Muhly's beautiful score?!
July 10, 2012 at 5:36PM EST Reply to CommentI've only seen the theatrical cut and consider it to be a masterpiece. Brilliant screenplay and direction from Lonergan and stunning performances from nearly all of the cast members; most notably Paquin, J. Smith Cameron and Jeannie Berlin.
The only complaint I have is that some of the scenes and plot points don't feel resolved. Mainly the revelation with Damon's character near the end. I'm looking forward to seeing the extended cut and seeing if some of these problems are addressed.
Porter I love that scene where she reveals that she had an abortion to Damon's character. It just comes out of nowhere, and we just don't know if she's fucking with him or not. It just gives the scene a whole new other dimension... The extended cut reveals what's true or not.
July 10, 2012 at 5:49PM ESTJonnybon
July 10, 2012 at 6:52PM EST Reply to CommentGreat film. Hugely underrated and under-seen. That needs fixing.
Guy Lodge Is it underrated, though? Seems to me it's rapidly heading for modern-classic status.
July 10, 2012 at 10:12PM ESTJonnybon Well, I would hope so. But its scores on RT, IMDB, Flixster, etc. are not great, which is a shame. So I guess it's pretty divisive.
July 11, 2012 at 11:23AM ESTBeau
July 10, 2012 at 7:41PM EST Reply to CommentTheatrical cut is best American film since 'Rachel Getting Married'.
Andrew Rech
July 10, 2012 at 8:02PM EST Reply to CommentWas lucky enough to catch Margaret through SIFF here in Seattle in February, and it made some serious claims for my #1 of the year. It really is a roller coaster, which sent me out flying once it ended. Beautifully and richly written, with amazing performances all around. I know Jeannie Berlin got a few notices here and there but I wish J. Smith-Cameron had gotten some mentions too. Her scenes with Paquin practically crackled and her Joan is definitely one of the most fascinating mothers in the movies of the last few years. And to echo what many have already said, Paquin gave the performance of her career. Tumultuous, self-absorbed, "strident" and yet totally relatable and sympathetic.
I am curious to see how the extended version works, because I kind of loved the arrhythmic cuts. Especially during those classroom discussions. Definitely will be buying it soon and have already told a lot of people to check it out.
SamuelM Smith-Cameron was outstanding. The authenticity of the mother/daughter relationship was almost scary.
July 11, 2012 at 2:32AM ESTMatthew Starr
July 10, 2012 at 10:44PM EST Reply to CommentI've seen the theatrical cut twice and it was my favorite film last year. Looking forward to giving the extended cut a view.
Seth A
July 10, 2012 at 11:07PM EST Reply to CommentI've already weighed in on another recent thread, but here's a nice commentary by Leonard Maltin, who's just caught up with the theatrical cut on DVD:
http://blogs.indiewire.com/leonardmaltin/margaretdvd-review
As he says, "I defy you to find a more intelligent or impassioned American film this year."
Bennett
July 11, 2012 at 2:17AM EST Reply to CommentI saw the extended version and I am in awe. I look forward to seeing it again, I think I'm going to wait a while so I can let the first viewing stew.
I'd like to touch on something Lisa's mother says that really caught my attention and that I think is appropriate for this blog. Around the 1:56:00 mark when discussing how publicity has effected her plays, she says: "The audience always reacts differently once they've been told it's good."
Now I've been following Kris and Guy since their pre-HitFix days, so I hope that I'm qualified to have a valid point in regards to this statement. I've noticed that in the awards season, and in film criticism in general, laymen (like myself) are easily impressionable. We can be swayed into watching or rejecting, liking or disliking a film based solely on what others (albeit professional others) have told us about it.
I feel that I'm aware enough of the influence you all have, so I'm capable of taking in your reviews and recommendations without losing my own opinions on the films. Not that that's your objective, of course. Hopefully a lot of readers use the same "method."
I don't really know where I was going with this, but I just wanted to point out how Mrs. Cohen's statement really hit home with me.
Kristopher Tapley That line was always intriguing to me, too. Applicable to both artists and audiences, as well.
July 11, 2012 at 3:07AM ESTMatthew Starr Yeah there is no question reviews from writers effect how will react to a film, especially the first viewing since our expectations are at a certain point. This is why I feel it's necessary to watch something multiple times before really finalizing your thoughts on it.
July 12, 2012 at 10:05AM ESTGuy Lodge Surely that doesn't apply to everything! There's something to be said for spontaneous reactions, too.
July 13, 2012 at 11:29AM ESTBennett Certainly, Guy. Sometimes I'll have strong reactions on a first viewing, regardless of what I've been told. If only the reast of us were so lucky to walk into a movie "blindly."
July 13, 2012 at 2:41PM ESTThere are times when praise can help both the film and the viewers, though. I know that had (forgive me Kris) The Artist not won Best Picture, my family wouldn't have gone with me to the theater. The expectation of seeing a good movie persuaded them.
Guy Lodge Well, that's good to hear -- otherwise there wouldn't be much point to being a film critic at all!
July 13, 2012 at 5:04PM ESTThe Other Ryan
July 11, 2012 at 2:21AM EST Reply to CommentI was actually lucky enough to catch it in theaters back in January. I went out of my way to do so based on your placement at the top of your list. It is indeed a masterpiece in every sense of the word. Really harrowing and heartbreaking, but never heavy-handed or maudlin.
SamuelM
July 11, 2012 at 2:31AM EST Reply to CommentI've commented in a couple of other threads here about how much i was moved and thrilled by this movie (I've only seen the theatrical cut thus far). It is one of the most astonishingly real and complex movies i've ever seen. It's certainly sprawling, but i don't know if messy is the word i would use. I feel like the free-form nature of it added to the realism and emotional intensity. Scenes like Strident and the shifting-goalpost mother/daughter arguments (the first of which is a great lesson in how to use curse words) are unlike anything i've seen before.
The one thing that i would be interested to get opinions on is related to Lisa's mental state throughout the movie (this is going to take a while). When we walked out of the cinema, the first thing my medical-student wife said to me was that Lisa is a classic case of Borderline Personality Disorder and her experience of the film was watching a portrait of a young girl with serious, diagnosable, mental health issues. That interpretation never occurred to me. I thought it was just the story of a teenage girl who unravels as she struggles to cope in the aftermath of a seriously traumatic incident.
Of course, being a medical student, my wife is inclined to see things that way since that's the world she's in. She's spent time in mental health wards and met people who have that kind of disorder. She pointed to Lisa's reckless use of sex, her inability to read social cues, her explosive temper, her fixation on solving the crime, the whole Matt Damon plot and especially what we both assumed was an attention-seeking lie about the abortion (but it seems the extended cut expands on this point a bit so the jury might be out on it) all served as symptoms of a deeper mental health condition.
It seems clear to me from reading interviews with Lonergan that he had no intention at all about exploring a personality disorder. But i am intrigued by the possibility of an alternative interpretation of the film that goes down this road. As i said, I didn't read it that way until my wife mentioned it (and we had a lengthy discussion over the next couple of days that explored the implications of it - i wasn't entirely comfortable with it because it takes away some of Lisa's agency, she argued that just because someone has a personality disorder, doesn't mean they lack agency).
I think it's a plausible way to interpret her character, but i am wary of pushing it too far since it wasn't Lonergan's intention (but, then, that raises a question about how much authorial intention matters).
I guess i'm just wondering what people think of that idea, if anyone else thought about it, or if you think it's absolutely crazy talk.
Sorry about the length of the post. This only really scratches the surface though of the discussions my wife and i had after seeing the movie. I guess that's a sign it's a great film.
Gautam @Samuelm .. I think Lisa had the naiveness of a child .. and that can be interpreted both as good and bad ... good when you think she was the only one pursuing truth to a point that hse had only one purpose in life .. she was bitten by the guilt.. I believe what director wanted to convey was that it was her teenage naiveness that made her do so ... she can only judge the world to be right or wrong and not something in between .... now when you look at the other angle as your wife did too .. was look at her naiveness as lack of maturity ... when at the age of 18-19 she is supposed to be more responsible .. she actually shows characteristics of a child ... nd thts whr it gets conflicting ... because it's the same quality that drove her to seek justice !! I hope I am making sense :)
July 12, 2012 at 12:43AM ESTSeth A @SamuelM: Intriguing idea. I'm not a psychiatrist (neurology is my field) but can offer some thoughts. Lisa may indeed exhibit traits of a personality disorder, but it's not clear she would be diagnosed at her age when the personality is still developing. Also, to potentially stigmatize someone with such a label carries risks which would have to be weighed against the possible benefits.
July 12, 2012 at 10:33AM ESTBut even if such a diagnosis were appropriate, there's no definitive, curative treatment available. It's not clear that she would benefit from psychotropic meds; and to the degree that talk therapies might help, she would also gain from cultivating the positive relationships she does have, as we see played out in the movie.
Strictly from a moviegoer's perspective, to have a scene where she sees a therapist, or something like that, might distract from the main narrative. Lisa is, to a large degree, dealing with issues external to herself, and IMO the viewer's main interest (though not the only one) is in seeing how those issues are resolved. (Then again, Lonergan is such a good writer that he probably could have pulled it off, had he chosen to go that route.)
If you and your wife have a chance to see the extended cut, you may find that it's a more psychologically satisfying version. The consequences of Lisa's actions are dealt with more fully and directly, and her relationships with her classmates are explored in more detail, even resolved to some degree. I actually came away feeling more hopeful about her future than I did watching the theatrical cut.
JJ1 The way she behaves to her teachers, her mild drug use, the flow of conversation with her father, her self-absorbed, "strident" outbursts ... yes, I think she definitely had a mild case of some sort of personality disorder.
July 16, 2012 at 7:28AM ESTThat said, at only 17 (or so), I also found her to be whipsmart, unfocused, naive, typically-teenager, and thrown for a loop by this accident.
From my perspective, the weight of her feelings of guilt mixed with the usual teen stuff and her inconsistent emotional behaviors (teachers, friends, mother, father, Emily, lawyers) showed to me that this was a pretty messed-up girl that can maybe return to some semblance of normalcy after the credits.
She needed a release. But yes, I witnessed behavioral issues; something was up. She wasn't just a rich, smart, brat/bitch.
JFK
July 11, 2012 at 7:35AM EST Reply to CommentThis movie was my number one film of 2011. I wish I could've made the screening the other day--but through experience, here in NY, those get mobbed the second big names are set to appear.
Nathan
July 11, 2012 at 9:51AM EST Reply to CommentI recently saw the theatrical cut which is on release here in Australia and I thought it was incredible. Lisa Cohen is one of the most frustratingly realistic teenagers I've ever seen in a movie, and Anna Paquin really struck gold with her performance. The clunkiness of some of the edits I thought were quite noticeable but they did not detract from the experience at all. Overall I thought it was pretty riveting stuff, with some of the most engaging dialogue in recent memory from any medium.
Nathan
July 11, 2012 at 4:05PM EST Reply to CommentDo we know why the Extended Cut is not offered on Blu-Ray, but only on the additional DVD? I find this decision odd. You'd think seamless branching would be easy enough.
Kristopher Tapley It was assembled from work prints and whatnot, so I guess that's why.
July 11, 2012 at 9:29PM ESTI don't think there's any reason to complain, either. That we get it at all is fantastic.
Matthew Starr Seriously. I would take The Thin Red Line and Tree of Life extended cuts on VHS.
July 12, 2012 at 10:07AM ESTJasper The reason I find it so weird is because on the DVD/BD combo, the theatrical cut is only on BD and the extended is only on DVD.
July 12, 2012 at 2:35PM ESTHoustonRufus
July 11, 2012 at 9:56PM EST Reply to CommentCan't wait to watch it, Kris. This movie is clearly dear to you.
Conor
July 11, 2012 at 11:27PM EST Reply to CommentI've only seen the EC so far, and I loved it. I've really never seen anything like it, but I'm not sure what about it was so different.. One thing I guess is that while tons of movies have "flawed" or "complicated" characters, those in Margaret conveyed a legitimate complexity that I thought was kind of awesome (how I empathized so strongly with both characters in the "strident" scene almost physically pained me haha). Definitely a lot to take in, but I look forward to doing so again soon.
Jordan
July 11, 2012 at 11:52PM EST Reply to CommentThe theatrical cut is a solid B from me. Perfectly likeable, and the cast were all top notch, but pretty underwhelming. The emotional payoff felt unearned, even after spending two hours with the characters. The themes were well-handled, though, and I'm looking forward to seeing the full version, considering the other cut felt like it was hacked at with a machete at times.
Gautam
July 12, 2012 at 12:31AM EST Reply to CommentHonestly when You and Guy were showering praises on this movie I thought what was the fuss all about. I checked imdb whr it has a rating of 6.7 .. pretty mediocre and then checked RT .. again 71% .. nothing to write about. Then I happened to watch the movie ... nd things started falling in place. It's a movie about so many underlying themes of humanity, about adulthood, about naiveness and about so much more. The people who didn't like it or found it average must have seen it from an angle of any other emotional drama. But the film is an abundance of ideas ... and about how this world's moralistic values are crumbling under the greed for money and desire to lead a comfortable life. A teenager who is yet to come to terms with the games of life ... learns it the hard way !! Anyways nice that I you so strongly recommended the movie .. nd now I too can claim it's one of the best which I have watched this year. Thanks.
Guy Lodge **I checked imdb whr it has a rating of 6.7 .. pretty mediocre and then checked RT .. again 71% .. nothing to write about.**
July 13, 2012 at 11:36AM ESTI keep saying it -- never, ever use such figures to gauge a film's worth, since they so rarely flatter abrasively interesting films. Find the critical voices you value -- even if you don't always agree with them -- and read their words, rather than getting overly influenced by bland numerical averages that don't reflect singular extremes of opinion. I'm so glad you trusted your gut and found the film for yourself.
Gautam Anand @Guy .. when the movie is accessible .. I generally dont see RT or imdb or for tht matter read any reviews ... so tht I dont enter the theatre with pre-conceived notions .. but when the movie takes a long time to release ... obviously u can't protect yourself from reading or seeing anything for tht long ... but at the end of the day .. as you said one shd trust one's instinct .. infact thr have been many movies which I have liked but have been rated dismally both @RT nd imdb ...
July 13, 2012 at 7:27PM ESTKristopher Tapley I think the "a" key on your keyboard could use a replacement.
July 14, 2012 at 12:52PM ESTGautam @Kris .. ha ha .. true .. I didn't notice it .. but actually I have used "a" more than required .. and I dont know why ... May be I had "a" drink more that day :)
July 14, 2012 at 10:25PM ESTAtticus
July 12, 2012 at 3:30AM EST Reply to CommentI was lucky enough to see it in a theatre last year, and enjoyed it enough to eventually seek out this director's cut. I really do think that it is one of the best depictions of a teenage character I've ever witnessed. Anna Paquin's performance was spellbinding (never thought she had it in her) and Lonergan wrote Lisa beautifully. Also loved Jeannie Berlin's character, who seemed like someone you could actually meet and not just a fictional creation.
However.
I just can't get on board with calling it a masterpiece, or the best film from last year, when it had such a messy, terrible subplot: the Jean Reno crap. Nothing about it made sense to me: the writing for his character (or Cameron's in her scenes with him - which is weird, because she felt very authentic as a mother), how it was acted, or even why it was included.
The other storytelling digressions were brilliant (the Broderick teaching scene, AMAZING) but so much time was wasted with Reno that it felt like a student short film or bad TV pilot was grafted onto this other movie. I haven't read any reviews or reactions which agree with me, though, so I guess I'm alone on this one...
Shekwanda
July 12, 2012 at 11:25AM EST Reply to CommentI just finished it and I never would've paid that much attention to this movie if it wasn't for you guys. I've never seen you so passionate about a film before. But I have to disagree with statements of masterpiece or best film of the year.
I didn't dislike it, but I didn't think it was anything that special. I did like Anna Paquin, but I always feel that there is something missing or something wrong with her, here, True Blood, X Men, wherever. She always has this strange quality in her acting, I don't know how to describe it and sometimes I feel it has a lot to do with her accent and for me, her unconvincing turn always happens when she's screaming and specially when she's crying. And there was a lot of that here. But if I put that away, I guess it really is a very good performance and possibly the best of an actress I've never cared that much about.
I didn't like how some scenes played out either, some of them felt completely out of control like the conference call near the end. I didn't get why Matt Damon's character even exists in this movie, and then there's this thing in the end when he may or may not be the father of the kid she may or may not have not aborted because when the hell did this pregnancy happen? Something felt off here and it may have to do with whoever did this cut and the extended cut handles this better, I don't know, and didn't like it enough to find out.
Then there was the final scene when the bus is coming and she once again stands there to stare at the driver, waiting to see if he stares at her again and quite possibly...kill somebody else...AGAIN!.
It was nice, but there's a bit of overreacting when it comes to this film.
JJ1 Having just seen the theaterical version (and I think this is a good movie with bursts of brilliant acting), I know what you mean.
July 16, 2012 at 7:36AM ESTThings don't need to be spelled out for me to reach an emotional/common sensical reaction. But there definitely were, I'll say, "strands" that were left too open or felt incomplete or unnecessary - and I attribute most of that to getting that running time down to 2:30.
The Jean Reno scenes felt strange, to me. I liked the character. But the scenes felt unnecessary. Matt Damon, too. Was he around simply to show how messed-up Lisa is? I just didn't see a need for those 2 characters in this story.
Tess
July 13, 2012 at 11:55PM EST Reply to CommentBeing Very late to the party, I just sat down and watched both versions back to back. Fantastic, flawed, but overall a real achievement.
I find it fun to watch the two versions next to one another, I did so and found it astounding how different the edits are. I actually find the Theatrical Cut to be a more confident and overall better edit. Not just that it's shorter, but the editing choices made for a better directed film. Neat stuff. Recommend both.
CaptainCanada
July 14, 2012 at 4:53PM EST Reply to CommentI bought the DVD/Blu-ray thing, but my DVD, which is supposedly the extended cut, appears to just be the theatrical cut (150 minutes, 36 scenes identified in the index). I don't know what's going on with that.
The theatrical version is good, but I don't know if I'd call it great. There are some really superfluous-seeming side characters there. Paquin's performance is amazing, though.
HoustonRufus
July 15, 2012 at 6:18PM EST Reply to CommentJust finished watching it. Finally. I'll definitely need to watch it again, and I'll need to think on the movie for a while. It demands a thoughtful response. But I have a few thoughts now.
My immediate reaction is that it has flashes of brilliance throughout and, though the path it takes is somewhat messy, it achieves a shocking power at the end. I felt myself incredibly moved at the end to witness Lisa finally having a moment of release? realization? vulnerability? closure? after trying so hard throughout the entire movie to find make some sort of sense out of an awful event that will surely haunt her forever.
As always, Lonergan's writing is some of the best in movies. But I was surprised at how some scenes didn't play well, both as a result of writing that didn't work and actors who knew it and were rushing through or trying to find the authenticity that is such a hallmark of Lonergan's style. So overall, the screenplay is unwieldy and occasionally misfires (for me anyway) but is fascinating and hits its ultimate target in its conclusion.
The acting is all first rate. I especially enjoyed Cameron as Lisa's mother. The character of Lisa is wonderfully complex and presented Paquin with a rare opportunity. I feel like she handled it well. In truth, Paquin is not one of my favorite actresses. I thought she was fine, though, especially in the final scene.
So in the context of last year, I'd place this movie around 9 or 10 on my personal year end list. For now.
Kyle Fuller
July 18, 2012 at 2:29AM EST Reply to CommentIs anyone else having a problem getting the extended cut? I rented it from my local video store and they gave me a DVD that said "Extended Cut" on the disc. Putting it into the dvd player, the running time was only 2 hours 29 minutes....I went back to the video store and they gave me the blu ray copy. Got it home, and put it in, and the running time was 2 hours 29 minutes. I went back and they tried another DVD disc IN the video store dvd player, and it was the same. I want to try another video store perhaps but don't want to waste more money. Anyone had a similar problem?