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Created about 2 years ago.
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sepinwall
Game of Thrones, "What Is Dead May Never Die" discussion for book readers
Spoilers Included

Once again, we're trying to keep the blog comments of each "Game of Thrones" episode completely free of discussion of things that are in the books but not in the show. So as I did last week, I'm setting up this discussion thread, which hopefully more of you will use this time than last week.

I'll add a link to my "What Is Dead May Never Die" review when it goes live on Sunday at 10 Eastern, and once that's up, feel free to talk about anything from any of the books in this space, while keeping all of that out of the blog comments.

Go crazy. Thanks!

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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MaxS
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrhuntington

I want to talk about the Renly-is-gay storyline. I don't remember that insinuation from the books, but maybe I just didn't do a good job reading through the lines? I remember that there was insinuation that maybe he hadn't yet slept with Margaery Tyrell, that that was the claim but people thought it might be crap. But I didn't get that they were hinting in the books that Renly might be gay. Did I miss something or was that a (fun, smart, probably good) twist they added to the series to explain why Margaery probably never slept with Renly (once we get to future episodes)?

It was never as overt as they basially have to do for the show as you can't read between the lines when there aren't any lines, but it was definitely strongly implied that Renly and Loras were lovers. Other characters make passing reference to it and Loras joins the kingsguard because he's already lost his only love. Renly Loras and Margaery aren't PoV characters so we don't see anything that goes on between them behind closed doors in the books.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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mrbilliam
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxS

It was never as overt as they basially have to do for the show as you can't read between the lines when there aren't any lines, but it was definitely strongly implied that Renly and Loras were lovers. Other characters make passing reference to it and Loras joins the kingsguard because he's already lost his only love. Renly Loras and Margaery aren't PoV characters so we don't see anything that goes on between them behind closed doors in the books.

To be honest, I never really understood Margaery in the books.
I caught the subtext about Loras at least being in love with Renly, but they also had characters comment on Renly seemingly being all over Margaery, so that they didn't believe she was a virgin.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxS

It was never as overt as they basially have to do for the show as you can't read between the lines when there aren't any lines, but it was definitely strongly implied that Renly and Loras were lovers. Other characters make passing reference to it and Loras joins the kingsguard because he's already lost his only love. Renly Loras and Margaery aren't PoV characters so we don't see anything that goes on between them behind closed doors in the books.

Yeah it was definitely there between the lines of the books, I believe George RR Martin even confirmed it during the book tour for Feas For Crows. So Renly/Lora's gay relationship has been stated as common knowledge on websites like towerofthehand.com since before the show.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbilliam

To be honest, I never really understood Margaery in the books.
I caught the subtext about Loras at least being in love with Renly, but they also had characters comment on Renly seemingly being all over Margaery, so that they didn't believe she was a virgin.

I never though Margaery Tyrell was much of a player in the game in the books and like how the show made another strong female character instead of the empty trophy Queen that Lord Tyrell passes around as a gift from King to another. Though I wonder if we won't get Margaery grandmother, Olenna Redwyne, next season who seemed to be the brains behind the operation and just have Margaery doing all her scheming instead...

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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Tedd
Spoilers Included

I understand wanting to elide Arya's story here for pacing reasons, but having her immediately be captured by Lorch instead of hiding with Lommy, Hot Pie, Gendry, and the others for a while raises a few issues. For one, suddenly there are an awful lot of people (many of them criminals and other untrustworthy sorts) who know who Gendy really is. Are we supposed to believe that none of them are going to try and curry favor with Lorch/Clegane by telling the truth?

Also, I'm worried that we're going directly to Harrenhall, which would be a shame because the parts of ACoK dealing with Arya's wandering around the ravaged Riverlands (both before and after her capture by Clegane's crew) are some of the most effective in the whole series at showing the actual impact of the war on the normal people. Plus, if we skip over Clegane/Lorch's various atrocities, it'll make their respective comeuppances (particularly the fight with Oberyn) much less satisfying.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Guesser
Spoilers Included

I find myself wishing I hadn't read the books as I watch the show. I mean, the storytelling quality took a total nosedive in books 4-5 so I'm not sure how Benioff and Weiss will bridge that disaster. And while the close to the first episode with Arya and Gendry riding north amidst the hunt for Gendry was cool, it didn't have much impact. I can't even remember what happens with Gendry in the books, so it didn't really resonate. And aside from one cool scene acquiring the Unsullied (book 3, I think?), it's really all downhill for Dany after the dragons hatching.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
JussiBrax
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxS

As of the fifth book, Syrio hasn't reappeared. The assumption was always that he did die, but because the books are written from the PoV of whoever's chapter it is, you don't see it. Thus why we probably won't see much of Rob for a little bit since he isn't a PoV character and once Catelyn, who is a PoV character, leaves his camp, we only hear about what he's doing second hand from other characters for a good period of time.

They are really speeding up the Arya story line this season, which while I understand since it's going to be a while before she interacts with any of the other main characters again. On the other hand, Arya is my favorite character in the books and her chapters are always the ones I'm most excited when I see coming up. I feel like it might be tough to appropriately build her character without things like her reciting the list of names she must remember. I'm just hoping that they take the time to build her relationship with Jaqen H'ghar as that really helps shape her character in the future books.

Spoilers Included

Regarding Arya reciting the list of names we clearly witnessed her getting the idea from Yoren when he was talking about his past("it bacame almost like a prayer"), so I wouldn't worry about that one. We'll see it.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Enchiladas
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbilliam

I was pretty excited when I saw Theon was going to pledge himself to the Drowned God, because I thought they were going to do the drowning/CPR thing from the fourth book, but they just basically did a baptism instead.

I am disappointed that they did not drown him. That was one of the few things that I liked about the Greyjoys. Without that, the "What is dead my never die" line lacks bite.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
oversleeper

“Those are brave men,” he told Ser Balon in admiration. “Let’s go kill them.”
-Tyrion

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Rakka
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrhuntington

I want to talk about the Renly-is-gay storyline. I don't remember that insinuation from the books, but maybe I just didn't do a good job reading through the lines? I remember that there was insinuation that maybe he hadn't yet slept with Margaery Tyrell, that that was the claim but people thought it might be crap. But I didn't get that they were hinting in the books that Renly might be gay. Did I miss something or was that a (fun, smart, probably good) twist they added to the series to explain why Margaery probably never slept with Renly (once we get to future episodes)?

What do you expect from HBO?

They will greatly expand nude scenes and add gratuitous gay content, regardless if it fits the story or not.

 
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