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Created about 2 years ago.
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sepinwall
Game of Thrones, "The Old Gods and the New" discussion for book readers
Spoilers Included

Same routine as usual. I'll plug in a link to my review of "The Old Gods and the New" when it goes live on Sunday night, and this is the place where you can comfortably discuss anything to do with George R.R. Martin's books, ways in which you think the show is better or worse, deviations, etc. Go crazy, and leave all that stuff out of the blog comments. Thanks!

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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sepinwall

And the review is here: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-the-old-gods-and-the-new-ill-take-the-high-road

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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MrMojo
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepinwall

And the review is here: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-the-old-gods-and-the-new-ill-take-the-high-road

First episode that I'm really not sure how I feel. Way, WAY too many changes from the book. Sir Rodrick's death, Littlefinger popping up all over the damn place, of course this Talisa character, Amory Lorch's death and of course the dragons getting stolen!!! Not sure why they feel the need to diverge from the book so much.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Illyria
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojo

First episode that I'm really not sure how I feel. Way, WAY too many changes from the book. Sir Rodrick's death, Littlefinger popping up all over the damn place, of course this Talisa character, Amory Lorch's death and of course the dragons getting stolen!!! Not sure why they feel the need to diverge from the book so much.

Couldn't agree more... They mostly seem like unnecessary changes which is what bothers me. I was still able to enjoy it as a show, as long as I tried not to get distracted by the changes.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
grift52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illyria

Couldn't agree more... They mostly seem like unnecessary changes which is what bothers me. I was still able to enjoy it as a show, as long as I tried not to get distracted by the changes.

I agree with both of you. My biggest complaint is Jon's story. He is my favorite POV character in the books and they just keep making him seem like an idiot, and everyone else seems to think he is an idiot as well. Also not a fan of Halfhand's changes. He was cool in the book and his relationship with Jon was totally different and it has been changed for the worse in my opinion

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Kevjean
Quote:
Originally Posted by grift52

I agree with both of you. My biggest complaint is Jon's story. He is my favorite POV character in the books and they just keep making him seem like an idiot, and everyone else seems to think he is an idiot as well. Also not a fan of Halfhand's changes. He was cool in the book and his relationship with Jon was totally different and it has been changed for the worse in my opinion

Yeah, this seems a bit much. Littlefinger is far too well traveled. They are not changing Jon's story too much, but I agree the Halfhand character in the book is very brutal but very likable.

But the dragons being stolen seems over the top. I think the producers are going to use it as a way for Dany to get angry when she eventually destroys the warlock house. Since that scene where she burns down the house in the book is so heavily reliant on her thoughts and perceptions and the magic therein. My guess is it will end up being the Warlock that stole the dragons in the show. But I am often wrong.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
iuqiddis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevjean

Yeah, this seems a bit much. Littlefinger is far too well traveled. They are not changing Jon's story too much, but I agree the Halfhand character in the book is very brutal but very likable.

But the dragons being stolen seems over the top. I think the producers are going to use it as a way for Dany to get angry when she eventually destroys the warlock house. Since that scene where she burns down the house in the book is so heavily reliant on her thoughts and perceptions and the magic therein. My guess is it will end up being the Warlock that stole the dragons in the show. But I am often wrong.

Yea, at this point they are changing a lot of the plots from the books. On the whole, I'm okay with it for now I think.

I don't mind the Lady Talisa change; we didn't really know Jeyne too well, so as long as she serves the same function, it's okay with me.

I don't mind the stealing dragons bit at all. I think 'Keyvjean' is right about this leading to the destruction of the house of the warlocks, which is also an acceptable change.

I'm enjoying the Arya/ Tywin thing, but obviously she had her interactions with 'Lord who likes to flay' (I can't remember his name). I guess this isn't too big of a deal as I guess they are going to show that Tywin will communicate directly with Lord Frey instead of using the Dreadford Lord as a messenger.

The changes I didn't like:

The killing of Sir Rodrick by Theon. In the books, he came off as a conflicted, confused bastard who was still sort of not okay with killing members of the Stark household. Here he just appears as a bastard. Also, they kind of skipped the whole burning of Winterfell and the Master dying.

The biggest missing piece from the books in the Bran storyline is the absence of Meera and Jojen. I really wanted to see those characters in the show, and they cut 'em off! By far my favorite sidekicks and they aren't even mentioned. More importantly, I thought they (and House Greywater(I think)) tied into the mystery of Jon Snow, but that storyline has all but disappeared from the show. I have a feeling they will just spring Jon Snow's parentage on us sometime in season 5, which is far less fun than the way Martin is building it up in the books.

And lastly, Jon and Halfhand: as other have mentioned above, one of my favorite characters is being turned into an idiot. The show is making Robb look great, but conversely making Jon look like a bumbling fool. And Halfhand liked Jon! What is all these petty taunting about?

Oh well, I guess I'm okay with most changes that change plot without changing the characters and their motivations too much. I'm not a big fan of changes that actually change how we perceive the characters. Sadly, I won't proclaim that I'm leaving this show and moving to Canada due to the changes they made to the story.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevjean

Yeah, this seems a bit much. Littlefinger is far too well traveled. They are not changing Jon's story too much, but I agree the Halfhand character in the book is very brutal but very likable.

But the dragons being stolen seems over the top. I think the producers are going to use it as a way for Dany to get angry when she eventually destroys the warlock house. Since that scene where she burns down the house in the book is so heavily reliant on her thoughts and perceptions and the magic therein. My guess is it will end up being the Warlock that stole the dragons in the show. But I am often wrong.

Spoilers Included

Yeah I agree it has got to be the warlocks. Only to give her more motivation for going in and then destroying the House of the Undying. For now I am okay with the changes to Dany's story as I found most of her ACoK storyline to be boring and the only points you hve to hit are the House of the Undying and her striking out by boat forfor slaver's bay. I also am trying to figure out how they will reintroduce Ser Barristan the Bold as the whole disguise thing doesn't work on screen like it does on the page. As the big thing was the reader was just as surprised as the characters when he revealed his true self.

Yeah Jon's story changes I am now starting to get worried about. Mainly because his character seems to be be herp derping about and not very smart. I really wanted Ghost to show up at the end for Jon to sleep next by to stay warm but alas we start got to see three direwolves this episode. Plus I also realized they skipped Jon and Ghost finding the dragonglass store hidden under the snow and that is ever so important to the story. That could be a major fuckup. On and since Jon runs after

I was okay with Ser Roddrick's death, as it really just drove the nail through the head of Theon's utter shittyness, though he still doesn't deserve what will come of him. Which leeds me to REEEEK!!!! So excited to hear about Bolton's Bastard as I thought they were going to hold off or somehow cut out Reek all together. Still don't know if he has been cast, though maybe they did it without announcing the casting which is pretty crazy, or manage to pull of a Jaqen H'ghar and show his character without being cast, which seems more difficult then a prisoner in a hood at the end of season 1. Well I was also worried they were going to somehow cut the Theon-Bran Winterfell story short this season because they did not cast the Reeds or Reek but it looks like that will continue sans the Reeds(maybe just for now or maybe for good) but will have Reek and we will still get the what will get the final shot of this season from the end of the book which will might be more devastating to see play out on screen then just to read about it.

So on to Arya I feel my worries of last week have been lifted. As I thought they did a good job of making a situation where she needed to use her second death-wish without it being a major player in the war and make sense. I also liked that it got across that Jaqan is no normal killer but quite special if not almost supernatural in his power to kill as the faceless man that he is. Valar Morghulis.

Man Littlefinger can travel fast if he is Highgarden next episode I will suspect magic in his travel...

Not sure what is going on with Robb, my main problem is that those scenes just don't seem to fit in this story. I am okay with them showing what is going on with Robb and maybe even adding a character we didnt know exist, if that is in fact Lady whatever the fuck her name is(I feel like a newbie now with her) and not Jeyne Westerling.

So in closing I thought this was a damn entertaining hour of television but am nervous about the butterfly effect taking ahold with these stories. Though I will hold my judgement til after the finale as I think most of these threads can still end at the correct place and lead into all the important crazy awesome shit that is to go down in ASoS.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by iuqiddis

Yea, at this point they are changing a lot of the plots from the books. On the whole, I'm okay with it for now I think.

I don't mind the Lady Talisa change; we didn't really know Jeyne too well, so as long as she serves the same function, it's okay with me.

I don't mind the stealing dragons bit at all. I think 'Keyvjean' is right about this leading to the destruction of the house of the warlocks, which is also an acceptable change.

I'm enjoying the Arya/ Tywin thing, but obviously she had her interactions with 'Lord who likes to flay' (I can't remember his name). I guess this isn't too big of a deal as I guess they are going to show that Tywin will communicate directly with Lord Frey instead of using the Dreadford Lord as a messenger.

The changes I didn't like:

The killing of Sir Rodrick by Theon. In the books, he came off as a conflicted, confused bastard who was still sort of not okay with killing members of the Stark household. Here he just appears as a bastard. Also, they kind of skipped the whole burning of Winterfell and the Master dying.

The biggest missing piece from the books in the Bran storyline is the absence of Meera and Jojen. I really wanted to see those characters in the show, and they cut 'em off! By far my favorite sidekicks and they aren't even mentioned. More importantly, I thought they (and House Greywater(I think)) tied into the mystery of Jon Snow, but that storyline has all but disappeared from the show. I have a feeling they will just spring Jon Snow's parentage on us sometime in season 5, which is far less fun than the way Martin is building it up in the books.

And lastly, Jon and Halfhand: as other have mentioned above, one of my favorite characters is being turned into an idiot. The show is making Robb look great, but conversely making Jon look like a bumbling fool. And Halfhand liked Jon! What is all these petty taunting about?

Oh well, I guess I'm okay with most changes that change plot without changing the characters and their motivations too much. I'm not a big fan of changes that actually change how we perceive the characters. Sadly, I won't proclaim that I'm leaving this show and moving to Canada due to the changes they made to the story.

Spoilers Included

I still think Winterfell will burn at the end of the season, so they didnt skip it yet and if they did it there it would have happened way too quick. That is how the book ends and is such haunting epic image to end the season on. I thought they did a good job of showing them making a look to an escape but not actually leaving the castle, so I assume they will be in the crypts the whole time just like the book...

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
JohnnyG
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthzombie

I still think Winterfell will burn at the end of the season, so they didnt skip it yet and if they did it there it would have happened way too quick. That is how the book ends and is such haunting epic image to end the season on. I thought they did a good job of showing them making a look to an escape but not actually leaving the castle, so I assume they will be in the crypts the whole time just like the book...

Spoilers Included

A few thoughts...

As most have said, I think the Dany change makes sense for TV. It gives her an easier too understand, visceral reason to destroy the House of the Undying. Also, she now has even more need for purchasing/acquiring the Unsullied, since a majority of her Dothraki are dead.

Regarding the Reeds, I feel like they have to get involved at some point. I do understand wanting to change things up for the Bran timeline for TV, though. Otherwise, it just becomes too much wandering/trekking. We already have Jon and Dany wandering/trekking. I am thinking that maybe the group of Bran, Rickon, Osha, Hodor, Summer, and Shaggy Dog meets up with the Reeds on the road heading north and then the groups diverge and, thus, making the trek of Bran and the Reeds on the road a little more condensed.

About Jon Snow, I agree with all. He shouldn't be coming across as this big of a derp. In my memory, this was the time that he started to really come into his own and show his intelligence and leadership abilities. All of this coming to fruition with his killing of Halfhand. Granted it was under the orders of Halfhand, but he did start to feel like a much more likeable, inspiring character than he feels like at the moment.

Thanks for all of the comments. I enjoy reading them.

Cheers!

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Winteriscoming_thumb
MaxS
Spoilers Included

I'm pretty sure that's still Jeyne Westerling there. They make it pretty obvious that she's making up her background as Robb is quite skeptical. On the other hand, I'm having a bad feeling we're cutting the Reeds and Osha is going to replace them. I don't think they want to get rid of Osha since when they split up, we don't hear anything about her and Rickon again until the end of the last book when it's hinted that they are in Skagos. I wonder if this means that Rickon is going to stay with Bran and Hodor or if they are going to find someone else to take him away.

I'm really not liking the changes to Jon Snow. The three favorite characters most people have from the book are obviously Tyrion, Aria and Jon Snow and while the show is doing a great job making people love the first two, they are doing a piss poor job on John Snow. In the book, he's left to kill her because Halfhand wants to see what kind of man he is. He chooses to let her go and them meets up with the rest of his party and later finds out that Halfhand knew it didn't matter if she lived because she would be too far behind them to alert the other wildlings and he wanted to see what Jon would do. In the show they make him seem like a bumbling idiot who let her get away from him in what seems to just be an attempt to get their flirting and relationship further along rather than waiting for later when he's with the wildlings. Also we've seen him get outdone by Castor who apparently took his sword. While the show hasn't made nearly the deal of the swords that the book has, they did make a big deal of Mormont giving Jon his family's sword.

 
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