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Created about 2 years ago.
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sepinwall
Game of Thrones, "A Man Without Honor" discussion for book readers
Spoilers Included

Same deal as always: we're trying to keep the comments for my "Game of Thrones" episode reviews as free of book spoilers as possible, so I'm setting up these message board posts each week where those of you who have read all of A Song of Ice and Fire so far can discuss TV vs. book to your heart's content.

I'll plug in a link to the review when it's been published.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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sepinwall
Spoilers Included

And here's the review: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-a-man-without-honor-horse-and-hound

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepinwall

And here's the review: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-a-man-without-honor-horse-and-hound

Spoilers Included

Wow they are getting to stuff with Jon Snow in a wonky order. And I think the show has made an over-emphasis on Jon's hardheaded stupidity that is their in the books but I thought he was smarter than portrayed on the show so far. But really how they going to get to Halfhand giving him his mission before their duel and will it play out correctly. I don't get why they changed why Jon was brought along with Halfhand, he's a Stark and his got a damned Direwolf which would be usefull. Then the order of how things are going with Ygritte. I thought his story was perfectly paced and told from point to point and I don't know why they changed it.

I actually like the Dany Qarth changes as they feel like something that would happen in the book even though they didn't. Also Dany's story through ACoK was my least favorite of hers. Didn't have the extreme arc of the first or all the awesomeness of the third or even just all the stuff that was going on in the 5th even if it was stalling somewhat. It is adding spice and intrigue to her time and really the only thing I cared about this season from Dany was that they do the House of the Undying and they seem to be going there and if they do that right then whatever happened prior to that doesn't matter...

And Robb still is meh could not care much either way. Just the writing seems subpar with his and his love interest maybe Jeyne Westerling foriegn highborn lady feild medic type...

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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MaxS

I agree that I kind of like the Dany changes. I don't know if they would have worked in the book, but it makes much more sense in the show's as to why she would go to the house of the undying. We're getting a lot more soap opera like with the interactions this year though. Tons and tons of scenes of one on one dialog often with romantic interaction. They really are messing up Jon Snow and Cercei's characters. Jon is just coming off as an idiot and it's going to make no sense when he becomes the commander. Cercei comes off as more and more human trying to make Joffrey seem like the anomaly even saying it's because he's inbred rather than being a product of her upbringing of him. And the moment of tenderness between Cercei and Tyrion made me sick. In the book when Tyrion tries to comfort her, she attacks him, not one of these Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" scenes.

It seems that in the need to save time and inability to quickly tell backstory in a show like you can a book that Dagmer has taken over the Reek/Ramsay role at this point of the story. I wonder how they plan on showing Ramsay's cruelty when he does appear or how they will deal with the Reek backstory or if they will just change the whole Theon to Reek transformation.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
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MaxS

Oh also, it does kind of change things a little for Karstark with his son being murdered while being tricked during guard duty versus just killed in battle. I was wondering how they were going to deal with that since it's important to future events with both Rob and much later with Stanis' forces in the north. It makes sense as a way to do it, but it's going to make Karstark seem much more sympathetic. Not much you can do though since they didn't have the budget to actually show the battles.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Kevjean

While I loved Jamie's scene with Cat in the prison. I hope they give him more time to explain his Kingslayer actions. I thought that backstory in the book was an important part of Jamie becoming more honorable. I am pretty sure that took place when Cat and Jamie had their talk which took place on last night's episode. And on the non-book forums there is a great debate about whether Jamie is without honor. And with only part of his "They make you swear and swear" speech, making it in that scene they seemed to have left out a big part of what makes Jamie tick. They haven't really gotten into the how the Kingsguard had to endure watching the Mad King burn members of his court alive. Also he has a speech about why he joined the Kingsguard which is very telling about his character.

Also I am very disappointed they've done away with Ser Dontos Hollard character after Sansa seemed to rescue him from Joffrey in the first episode. And what of the Jojen and Meera Reed, I hope they will meet up with Bran, Osha and Rickon at some point.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
Winteriscoming_thumb
MaxS
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepinwall

And here's the review: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-a-man-without-honor-horse-and-hound

I can't remember exactly when it happened, but I don't think we were given the backstory on Jaime at this point of the books either. If memory serves, I feel like he reveals it to Brienne when they are traveling to Kings Landing.

I think the Reeds are being cut out which is really disappointing. Maybe they'll find a way to show up next season, but I don't think they want to get rid of Osha and bringing in the Reeds does that so they've decided to have Osha just take their place.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
consideract
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthzombie

Wow they are getting to stuff with Jon Snow in a wonky order. And I think the show has made an over-emphasis on Jon's hardheaded stupidity that is their in the books but I thought he was smarter than portrayed on the show so far. But really how they going to get to Halfhand giving him his mission before their duel and will it play out correctly. I don't get why they changed why Jon was brought along with Halfhand, he's a Stark and his got a damned Direwolf which would be usefull. Then the order of how things are going with Ygritte. I thought his story was perfectly paced and told from point to point and I don't know why they changed it.

I actually like the Dany Qarth changes as they feel like something that would happen in the book even though they didn't. Also Dany's story through ACoK was my least favorite of hers. Didn't have the extreme arc of the first or all the awesomeness of the third or even just all the stuff that was going on in the 5th even if it was stalling somewhat. It is adding spice and intrigue to her time and really the only thing I cared about this season from Dany was that they do the House of the Undying and they seem to be going there and if they do that right then whatever happened prior to that doesn't matter...

And Robb still is meh could not care much either way. Just the writing seems subpar with his and his love interest maybe Jeyne Westerling foriegn highborn lady feild medic type...

Condensing and collapsing individual plot lines to quicken their progress so that the separate stories hold apace with each other while fitting within the constraints of a limited number of hours, which is not a factor for the books.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by consideract

Condensing and collapsing individual plot lines to quicken their progress so that the separate stories hold apace with each other while fitting within the constraints of a limited number of hours, which is not a factor for the books.

I understand that, doesn't change my complaints with Jon's storyline and character. Especially the why Jon went with Hakfhand, being that he asked for Jon because he has Stark blood and has a direwolf. I think they wanted to showcase the actress they got as Ygritte this season as we barely got to know/see her in the second book, so in order to bring in an actress they gave her more to do in the show up to this point which drastically changes the order of events for Jon. Plus not having Qhorin tell him it didn't matter either way after choosing not to execute the girl and leaving him to do it was a test to see what kind of man he was makes him not into the bumbling idiot he is on the show right now. Case in point he lost her again.

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
darthzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthzombie

I understand that, doesn't change my complaints with Jon's storyline and character. Especially the why Jon went with Hakfhand, being that he asked for Jon because he has Stark blood and has a direwolf. I think they wanted to showcase the actress they got as Ygritte this season as we barely got to know/see her in the second book, so in order to bring in an actress they gave her more to do in the show up to this point which drastically changes the order of events for Jon. Plus not having Qhorin tell him it didn't matter either way after choosing not to execute the girl and leaving him to do it was a test to see what kind of man he was makes him not into the bumbling idiot he is on the show right now. Case in point he lost her again.

Spoilers Included

Also most damaging change is a quick and quiet removal of Jon and Ghost finding the dragonglass store by the fist of the first men. Because that changes alot of things one a mystery of who put it there, Benjen? Coldhands? Another it sets up Sam the Slayer which is an awesome part of the story and the fact dragonglass can kill White Walkers and their undead army...

 
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Replied about 2 years ago.
ndmiami
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepinwall

And here's the review: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-game-of-thrones-a-man-without-honor-horse-and-hound

Spoilers Included

Is anyone else worried that Cat asking for the sword at the end of the episode will just absorb the Vargo Hoat storyline and lead to Jamie losing a hand?

I can't imagine her book character doing that, but at this point, I think the show has made clear it will deploy non-book causes to instigate book-consistent effects, and eliminating the Vargo Hoat/hauled off to Harrenhall/Brienne and Jamie storyline will definitely speed things up.

Just a thought, I don't think it'll happen but I kind of worry it might.

 
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