Will Louis CK's download experiment be followed by others?
What's the future for independently produced and distributed content?
Louis CK in his "Live at the Beacon Theater" comedy special.
Over the weekend, Louis CK released his latest stand-up comedy special, "Louis CK: Live at the Beacon Theater," an hour of all-new material in which he talks about parenting, sex, God, the environment and more. It is, unsurprisingly, a very funny hour of entertainment, as you might expect by the man who currently stands at the top of the stand-up pyramid.
Also unsurprisingly, given the circumstances behind the production of his great FX show "Louie," CK has used the special as an excuse to try out a new business model. "Live at the Beacon Theater" had no theatrical run, no DVD release, nor even a partnership with a large online media company. You simply go to CK's own website, spend the more-than-reasonable sum of 5 bucks, and you can download a copy of the special without any kind of restrictions as to what method you use to view it, how you want to copy it, or anything.
The idea, as CK explains it in his open letter about the experiment, was to find out the answer to these questions: "Will everyone just go and steal it? Will they pay for it? And how much money can be made by an individual in this manner?"
And the answers so far seem to be: 1)No (though copies have, predictably and unfortunately, turned up on various BitTorrent sites); 2)More than 100,000 people as of Tuesday; and 3)Enough to make a profit, albeit not as much as CK could have made by working with a big media company, which would have charged his fans more, provided more restrictions on what they could do with the video, etc.
As with "Louie" - where, as you probably know, CK is given near-total creative autonomy by FX in exchange for making the show at a much lower budget than your normal half-hour show - it's been a success on CK's terms. And as with "Louie," I wonder if/when others will try to follow this model.
There's a difference between the two, obviously. With the FX show, CK is giving up money in exchange for the ability to make exactly the show he wants without outside interference. With "Live at the Beacon Theater," he's trying to do a nice thing by his fans, while also satisfying his curiosity about how online economics can work if you trust people to do the right thing.(*) But he could have made the exact same special with a bigger partner, made more money, and no one would have complained about him approaching business the way every other entertainer does. And I'm very impressed that he chose to do it this way, and that most people seem to have played along.
(*) In his take on the experiment, James Poniewozik draws a line between what CK is doing and a section of the special where he talks about how people are driven by selfishness to do things that eliminate minor inconveniences in their own lives, even if those actions greatly inconvenience others.
Various music acts have tried experiments like this (Radiohead inviting fans to pay whatever they wanted to download "In Rainbows" comes to mind), but they're operating in an industry where piracy is far more rampant and where the overall business model is a wreck. They're trying to figure out a better way because they need to. Comedy isn't anywhere near that point yet, especially not for someone at the top of the profession like CK.
And it does feel like, at this point, the only kind of comedian who could really make this experiment work is someone successful enough that they don't need to. In his open letter, CK runs through the costs of producing and distributing the special, and they're not insignificant. He was able to make it work because he already has a huge built-in audience who, even in an age where we're conditioned to get everything for free, would be willing to pay the 5 bucks to watch the special. If the 2011 equivalent of Dane Cook were just starting to establish a web presence today, he likely wouldn't be able to afford this idea.
Which brings me to the larger question of how entertainment can transcend traditional distribution models. For all the talk about how we live in an On Demand universe, a TV show has to get exposure through old-fashioned means before people will make the effort to seek it out and watch it through the newer methods. "Lost" could have perhaps moved to a subscription-only model for its final seasons, but only after it had several years to expose itself to the 10-20 million people who watched each week on ABC.
So will "Live at the Beacon Theater" lead to more great content that's independently produced and distributed, and available through cheaper, less restrictive means than we can get stuff now? Maybe a good way down the road. But it still feels like the stars have to be aligned just right - starting with the star himself being famous and generous and curious enough to try - for many people to do it now.
What does everybody else think? If you're a CK fan, did you pay for the special? Who else would you subsidize in this fashion? Do you think there are certain kinds of entertainment that lend themselves more easily to this direct-and-cheap model?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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About This Blog
All through his childhood, Alan Sepinwall's relatives told his parents, "All that boy does is watch television! How's he going to make a living doing that?" His career as a TV critic has been 15 years and counting of his attempt to answer their concerns. "What's Alan Watching" is a blog whose title is self-explanatory: Alan watches TV shows, then writes about what he watched. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupClayDavis
December 14, 2011 at 3:02PM EST Reply to CommentI actually paid to see the show live at the Beacon, then spent the $5 to download it - and stick it on my iphone. Louie had said if he made $8 million from the show, he'd use the $$$ to finance his next movie - so maybe it's not the full-bore success it might have been/could be in the future.
Then again - Louis is the only standup working today who could have pulled this off. Says a lot about him - but I doubt it will change the model for most.
thefncrow Actually, he said if he made $8m on his second special like this, he'd use it to make a movie.
December 14, 2011 at 3:25PM ESTHe said if this special made $8m, he'd probably take that money to buy himself a home and secure some measure of financial security since he's never really had that.
Chris I paid for the Beacon show as well, and it was amazing enough that I'm totally in for buying this as well (on the to-do list). There's a few other comedians who could do this, but like Louis, I think they're people who are massive already (Chris Rock, for instance).
December 14, 2011 at 3:59PM ESTI do think this is doable on a smaller scale for comics and musicians with a loyal enough fan base - see something like bands using Kickstarter to fund album production. I know that there a re a few bands for whom I'll buy every t-shirt, any digital release, etc. in order to essentially fund them.
The Community example Harmon gives is nuts - not many people are paying $5 an ep for Community. Although, MAYBE you could scale back production costs and get it to $2-3 an ep, and you'd be talking.
the minister "Louis is the only standup working today who could have pulled this off. Says a lot about him - but I doubt it will change the model for most."
December 19, 2011 at 8:53PM ESTYou don't think Chris Rock could pull this off? Seinfeld?
Marc Maron pulls if off on a small scale twice a week (WTF podcast--a must listen for comedy nerds.)
Andy
December 14, 2011 at 3:02PM EST Reply to CommentLouis CK if definitely in that special area where he could "afford" to take this kind of risk...
But he has the kind of fans, like myself, who will gladly hand over the cost of a sandwich to own this item for life but also the popularity to be able to take this kind of risk...
I appreciate the idea, the reward and CK immeasurably. I would have gladly paid double.
frédéric_morin
December 14, 2011 at 3:07PM EST Reply to CommentFrom Dan Harmon Twitter Account:
Works. $5 per viewer per ep, 360K viewers would pay for a season. RT @stefanielaine consider Louis CK's distribution model for Community?
I did the maths, 1 million fans would each have to pay 43.20$ (or 4 million fans each 11$ or so) for a full season (24 episodes). Why aren't people doing this
Because no one would pay that much for a single TV show. Maybe the eleven bucks, but not the 40+ dollars. Certainly not a million people. And there are VERY few shows that could get away with it.
December 14, 2011 at 3:37PM ESTsnathan So it takes about $1.8M to make one episode of community.
December 14, 2011 at 3:37PM ESTAlan, do you have general idea of the cost breakdown, like what percentage would be spent on cast, crew, other production costs, marketing etc ?
S To whoever said no one would pay $40+ for a show - people are already subscribing to full seasons of shows on iTunes, or buying seasons on DVD for much more than $40. I probably wouldn't pay $40 to watch new episodes on TV, but if after every new episode, I could keep the copy on my computer and could watch again and again as I please, I think many people would - and already do - pay for that.
December 14, 2011 at 4:42PM ESTkeith Those 360K devotees are all he needs WORLDWIDE. I say Dan Harmon is like Joss Whedon or Louie CK and Community is like Dr Horrible. If you're that good, you can ask fans to pay a small amount for something you're giving away and they'll gladly do so. I think it works.
December 14, 2011 at 8:04PM ESTb carroll the problem with anyone OTHER than louis doing this, is that they would restrict it to the US, and fans like me that aren't living there at the moment wouldn't be able to participate.
December 15, 2011 at 8:30AM ESTthank you for the early xmas present, louis!
I don't really think you can justify charging $5 for 22 minutes of Community when for $5 we got an hour of Louis. I think people would pay about $2 per ep, maybe $3. Any higher and it's "hello torrents."
December 15, 2011 at 10:22AM ESTHarmon would be better of following the lead of Mitch Hurwitz than Louis CK.
Shane Someone might want to help Dan Harmon learn math, $5 per episode at 20 episodes would be $100. If he thinks that "works" he is batshit insane. I would pay 20 bucks for a season of community on DVD, not a penny more, eff 100 bucks just to be able to watch it the same day as live tv.
December 17, 2011 at 1:03PM ESTChris
December 14, 2011 at 3:09PM EST Reply to CommentI think a beginning artist (not just comedy, but music as well) could indeed pull this off.
You can't do it at this level of production quality or scale, obviously, but when you're just starting out, any additional revenue stream is a big help.
So, record, in one way or another, every performance you do and put it online for purchase.
Email the people at the show (if you have access to that ... and you should make an effort to do so) and let them know they can download the recording for $5 (or $10, or $X).
Sure, it's not going to be much for a good, long while, but every little bit helps.
Truck Nah, making EVERY performance available is complete overkill, unless you have a cult following like Phish. Quality over quantity always wins out when you're trying out a new business model.
December 15, 2011 at 11:47PM ESTIf nothing else, making every performance available for free while selling some edited/mastered premium content for a small fee seems to work out best in my experience. This is how a lot of comedy podcasts work, and it's how a lot of indie bands operate (putting out a singles discography every so often to maintain a physical presence)
Aaron
December 14, 2011 at 3:12PM EST Reply to CommentWhat Louie, and others, seem to forget is that the experiment is far from over! I bet that, in the end, he will have made more money than he would have gotten from a studio. This "experiment" is growing in popularity, and there are plenty of procrastinators (like myself), who have yet to purchase it. It's a nice thing for the fans and interesting, but we won't ever see it randomly on Comedy Central or HBO, which is always nice for the lazy who don't like to go through the effort of loading a DVD and sitting through the whole thing.
Mike333637 Who's to say that a couple of years from now Comedy Central won't write Louie a decent check to take this special off the 'nets (if it's even still available at that point) and buy the rights to show it whenever they want? I don't know if that really makes sense for either party, but I think it could still be a possibility.
December 23, 2011 at 9:07PM ESTeakawie
December 14, 2011 at 3:16PM EST Reply to CommentThe next step for Louis could be curating a catalog of his favorite standups, letting them take advantage of his web infrastructure to get exposed to his audience. In some ways this is what Chris Hardwick has been doing with the Nerdist brand.
And by the way, I bought it, though I haven't watched it yet. And yes, at $20 I may well have torrented it. But the personal appeal worked for me.
December 14, 2011 at 3:22PM ESTthefncrow
December 14, 2011 at 3:22PM EST Reply to Comment"3)Enough to make a profit, albeit not as much as CK could have made by working with a big media company, which would have charged his fans more, provided more restrictions on what they could do with the video, etc. "
Actually, it appears this is incorrect. Louis CK was on Fresh Air yesterday, and one of the things he said was that he's never actually made any money off any of his previous stand-up specials, and yet he's already made money off this one.
Now, you could argue that there was a greater profit out there in doing a partnered special, but that's not profit for Louis, it's profit for whatever corporation partnered with him.
Purduelion
December 14, 2011 at 3:27PM EST Reply to CommentPurchased and liked it. But...the production quality/ lighting, and content wasn't as good as he other stuff. My 2 cents.
Brock Caley BOILER UP PURDUELION!!!
December 14, 2011 at 9:51PM ESTKaitlin862
December 14, 2011 at 3:39PM EST Reply to CommentThere are actually a lot of innovations going on in the stand up community right now. Louie's was just the most profiled version of this.
Jimmy Pardo's Podcast has been a pay version for several years, and its been very successful.
And Doug Benson now sells new episodes of the Benson interruption on itunes for 1.99, after it was dropped by Comedy Central.
I think Standups have always been at the forefront of how entertainers interact with their fans. Dane Cook an example of how it was done 10 years ago. What is changing is that it is constantly requiring more time and energy to work your way to front. Because they are so many more talented people willing to do the work to get there.
Chris
December 14, 2011 at 4:00PM EST Reply to CommentI paid for the show at the Beacon without hesitation, and I actually was at one of his Beacon shows. I feel like it's important to support the artists you like, particularly if you know you are directly supporting them and not the overhead cost of production company they've partnered with.
chris
December 14, 2011 at 4:18PM EST Reply to CommentSorry, but I've just to go point something out:
" 3)Enough to make a profit, albeit not as much as CK could have made by working with a big media company..."
I saw this in a couple of places but that's not an entirely accurate statement. He could have made more money immediately if this were a standard release but he covered the cost of the production and started turning a decent profit already BUT this thing has only been released for less than a week. Every $5 download at this point goes straight into his pocket. LEt's check back in a month and see how he's doing. I'll be he'll end up doing better this way in the long run.
Jenny Not to mention that he retains full rights to the material, so he can release it as a DVD to a different audience down the road.
December 14, 2011 at 7:29PM ESTbrian
December 14, 2011 at 4:45PM EST Reply to Comment"Lost" could have perhaps moved to a subscription-only model for its final seasons. . ."
Wow, Alan you just found the one way that Lost could have been more dissapointing. Didn't think that it was possible.
kingofk1ngs
December 14, 2011 at 4:49PM EST Reply to CommentKevin Smith did something very similar with Red State.
Erika Herzog
December 14, 2011 at 4:54PM EST Reply to Commentfrom his twitter account, about 5 hours ago....
Louis C.K. @louisck 5h Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
I would really like to thank you all for buying the thing. All130,000 of you (so far). louisck.com.
Erika Herzog to reply to myself, although i live in nyc i didn't go see the special at the beacon but i bought the thing and have watched it streaming. i also downloaded both the regular and the HD copies.
December 14, 2011 at 5:07PM ESTi have been griping for years at feeling like a chump for buying what now constitutes a luxury item -- the physical CD. instead of being smart about things and experimenting with including high quality FLAC and high resolution liner notes and cover art with their CDs, the stupid record industry has marginalized their own product. and have created a generation that doesn't see downloading music for free as stealing. way to go fellas.
/ soapbox, back to @louisCK....
thought it was a good standup show that made me laugh a lot and is a super cool experiment in alternative distribution / access. gotta love Louis CK even more....
i found it sobering to see the actual outlay / costs of the thing, again from his website:
"First of all, this was a premium video production, shot with six cameras over two performances at the Beacon Theater, which is a high-priced elite Manhattan venue. I directed this video myself and the production of the video cost around $170,000. (This was largely paid for by the tickets bought by the audiences at both shows). The material in the video was developed over months on the road and has never been seen on my show (LOUIE) or on any other special. The risks were thus: every new generation of material I create is my income, it's like a farmer's annual crop. The time and effort on my part was far more than if I'd done it with a big company. If I'd done it with a big company, I would have a guarantee of a sizable fee, as opposed to this way, where I'm actually investing my own money."
schwindle
December 14, 2011 at 4:56PM EST Reply to CommentHaven't paid for it yet, because I saw the special and my only computer right now is my work laptop. But I definitely plan on buying it soon, if only in the naive hope that some other comedian/musician/movie studio will do the exact same thing.
mike
December 14, 2011 at 5:02PM EST Reply to Commentwow i was also at the show live (the second show of the night), and i'm definitely going to purchase this. i've heard conflicting reports though, do you need paypal to purchase it? louis ck mentioned that you don't in his letter, but people i've seen talking about it in forums have said that you do. any help would be appreciated. it was easily worth 60 bucks a ticket live, charging five bucks no-strings is essentially stealing it anyway.
Jenn You do not need a PayPal account. However, the first time I tried, it didn't work. When I tried the second time, it was fine. I bought it about 30 minutes after it came out. I usually torrent everything, but Louie's peronal appeal and willingness to experiment worked for me.
December 14, 2011 at 5:25PM ESTb carroll i second everything jenn said above...
December 15, 2011 at 8:34AM ESTi paid and am downloading it right now - and am extremely happy to be able to do so, given that i currently reside outside the US and so don't have access to most of my favorite shows. fortunately, no one is showing TDS or Colbert here, unlike Japan and the UK, so i'm at least able to stream them right off their websites, along with *some* PBS shows. but network shows? no f'ing way...
THANKS LOUIS! YOU'RE THE GREATEST
Teklanika
December 14, 2011 at 5:11PM EST Reply to CommentI think others, like Anthony Jesilnik, could get away with a modified version of this model. They would need some help from someone like CK though.
Maybe CK could promote a Jesilnik special on his website for credibility and they could offer the first 5 minutes or so for free & people could buy the rest if they want.
Teklanika Obviously, the big dog, in this case CK, would need to front the production costs as well, but it could be worked out.
December 14, 2011 at 5:13PM ESTgeektron
December 14, 2011 at 5:18PM EST Reply to CommentLove that Louie did this. I bought it. :)
debbie
December 14, 2011 at 5:34PM EST Reply to CommentLouis CK was on Fresh Air yesterday. He talked about this and a lot of other stuff. As expected, it was a great interview, worth a listen.
chuchundra
December 14, 2011 at 7:05PM EST Reply to CommentI haven't bought it yet, but that's because I haven't really had time to watch it. I'll most likely get it this weekend.
Marco
December 14, 2011 at 8:06PM EST Reply to CommentI hadn't heard about this at all, until I read an article on either Hitfix or AV Club. I can't help think that appearing on a few podcasts would have increased initial sales, but I'm assuming Louis is very busy.
Boricua in Texas
December 14, 2011 at 9:48PM EST Reply to CommentI love what Louis CK did. He had absolutely no need to, and yet he chose to connect with his audience this way. I certainly paid for the download, and I am happy that enough people did.
Muz
December 15, 2011 at 1:08AM EST Reply to CommentThe area of video games has been trying this for a while, often with interesting results. Some of them making enormous amounts of money (for a two person team anyway)without even charging a fixed price a la Radiohead (World of Goo is one such example).
Then there's situations like electronic duo Lamb, who were never big time but had a decent international following. They had a long hiatus and decided to do another album. No record company would advance them enough to cover the costs, even with publication rights. So they went to the net and sold preorders. I believe they tripled any amount offered them and made a profit without even making the album or touring it yet (it just came out this year).
British psychologist Richard Wiseman couldn't get a US publisher for his book about superstition unless he changed it so it wasn't based on the idea that ghosts and psychics weren't real. So he went straight to self publishing on Kindle. I believe he's doing better than all publisher expectations.
I agree it's certainly risky, but it seems you don't need to be Radiohead and cutting out the middleman has arguably even more advantages for someone small and niche. Once all the inbetweens are factored in the amounts a publisher or the like wants to see are enormous. But most of us can have a comfortable living on a fraction of that.
So good luck to him. I think he'll do well. Trying to fund a film makes it a bit trickier. If he gets a decent percentage of the goal you'd think someone would come in on it, though. Or I'd hope so.
tossit
December 15, 2011 at 1:31AM EST Reply to Commentfunny funny special....i loved his plan to protect his daughter from the kid that shoved her...hilarious
Jason
December 15, 2011 at 3:36PM EST Reply to CommentI paid for it and would pay if people like Chris Rock, Dave Attel, or Eddie Murphy did it. $5 is awesome.
Albert
December 15, 2011 at 6:24PM EST Reply to CommentDitto, paid for it the moment I saw it.
First off, there's a middle ground here. Instead of having to turn to a production company with its draconian contracts, you could look for an investor who doesn't get exclusive copyright and only gets his fair share of the profits. The only reason this isn't norm is because production companies have a monopoly on financing productions and distribution, making an independent move more risky, but it's definitely doable, esp. in the digital age.
As to Allen's point about small and new acts being unable to make such a move - well, they can, on a smaller scale. The current system of production companies has a lot of advantages, but it's also become a cannibalized version of itself, stepping on everyone involved on their way to another dollar, which will be they're undoing, once there's a reasonable alternative in place.
Ben
December 23, 2011 at 6:08PM EST Reply to CommentLouie appeared on Jimmy Fallon and provided a superb breakdown of what the special earned and how the funds were disbursed. Spoiler alert: the people workiing on the show earned bonuses, a lot of worthy-sounding charities received gifts, and Louie plans to use his substantial cut to buy a new penis.
RL
April 30, 2012 at 3:05PM EST Reply to CommentAziz Ansari put out a downloadable comedy special, in line with the headline of this article. It's a pretty good set, too. All new material.
RL
April 30, 2012 at 3:06PM EST Reply to CommentAziz Ansari put out a downloadable comedy special, in line with the headline of this article. It's a pretty good set, too. All new material..