Inside Television with Alan Sepinwall

Review: 'The Walking Dead' - 'Pretty Much Dead Already': Opening the barn door

Shane's temper reaches a boil in the mid-season finale

By Alan Sepinwall Sunday, Nov 27, 2011 9:58 PM

Rick (Andrew Lincoln) on "The Walking Dead."

Credit: AMC

Are you a fan of The Walking Dead?

Sign up to get the latest updates instantly.

A review of tonight's "The Walking Dead" mid-season finale coming up just as soon as I'm in line for the early bird special...

"I forgot that they're dangerous." -Glen

Well, if they're going to go away until February, this is the way to do it.

I've been underwhelmed by a good chunk of the season so far, but tonight's closing scene was so effective that I think I'm going to remember it far more strongly over the next two-plus months than I will a lot of the dull moments we got during this long stay at Hershel's farm.

It's not even that it was a spectacularly-written scene. Sophia had been gone long enough that odds were high she'd turn up as a zombie, and a lot of the behavior leading up to Shane prying the barn door open made no sense. (Even if Rick couldn't let go of the catch pole and Hershel was too shocked to take it himself, why did no one else in either group either stop Shane or let Rick do it? I buy deeply moral - or deluded - Hershel being paralyzed in that moment, but everybody?) And Shane has gone from morally ambiguous anti-hero into cartoonish villainy, throwing a violent tantrum because Lori spurned him for Rick.

But it was an example of how much great direction - in this case, from Michelle MacLaren, who's been responsible for so many things that are awesome on "Breaking Bad" (including Hank + parking lot + magic bullet) - can elevate iffy material. The messy, handheld shooting style of that final sequence made it feel much more intense and apocalyptic than it had any right to be. By the time it was over, I felt shaken - which is no mean trick for a show where I'm not sure I'm invested in what happens to any of the characters (other than maybe Daryl and Glen) going forward.

Was the zombie slaughter - and Rick re-establishing his leadership bonafides by being the only one able to do what needed to be done with Sophia - enough to justify the way the show has dragged for weeks now, rehashing the same 3 or 4 arguments over and over and over again? Was it even enough to make up for the sluggish earlier parts of this episode? Probably not, no - though Sophia's fate did put a good button on Rick and Lori's ongoing debate about the place of children in this world - but if it serves as a kick in the behind to Glen Mazzara and company going forward, I'll take it.

What the final scene, and Glen's line I quoted above, should remind everyone is that the post-zombie world is not fun. It's not idyllic. It's dangerous. And that's how the show should feel.

I don't mean that every episode has to be wall-to-wall zombie attacks. What I mean is that we've now spent a half a season with the characters in a relatively idyllic setting, which in theory should have given us a chance to get to know them better, and it didn't really work at all. Whether it's the source material, the scripts or the acting, almost everyone comes across as two-dimensional and disposable. But if you put those characters under pressure - even if it's just the anticipation of something bad coming, as opposed to actually being under siege - their blandness doesn't matter as much.

I don't know if they'll be leaving the farm now, or if Shane will attempt to strongarm their way into staying, but a peacetime "Walking Dead" really didn't work. A "Walking Dead" where things are tough and people have to actually make hard choices in the moment, rather than talking and talking about having to make them one day in the future, would be a major step back in the right direction.

And until we see whether or not the show heads back in that direction, I can at least remember how I felt watching those last few minutes. They were really, really good.

A few other thoughts:

* Carol potentially pairing off with Daryl? Yawn. Though I'm curious to see who and what she becomes now that Sophia's dead. She's definitely the least-developed - or maybe just least interesting - survivor of the folks we met back at the quarry.

* Whether the group stays or goes, I want to see Maggie continue to be part of the show. The writing for the women characters hasn't been that great this season, but she's been a notable exception.

* I did like Rick and Hershel's exchange about Hershel's belief that "these people can be restored," and Rick realizing that he's not talking about the zombies. In Hershel's mind, people like Rick and Shane have been transformed almost as badly as the walkers. And given what Shane does at the end, purely out of spite, he has something of a point.

* On the other hand, once the secret of what was in the barn came out, why on earth would Hershel let Rick and the others keep searching for Sophia? It's one thing to hide her existence when he didn't want them to know about the barn, period, but after? That was just there to set up the "surprise" of her presence.

* While I'm obviously supposed to sympathize with Dale ahead of Shane, no good was going to come of hiding all their guns in a remote part of the swamp. In this case, he's lucky Shane happened to be following him.

Before we go to the comments, let me remind you once again about the no spoilers rules for this blog, and specifically how it relates to a show like this adapted from a popular source material:

1) No Spoilers.

2)This includes any discussion of the previews for the next episode.

3)This includes any discussion of storylines from the comic that haven't happened yet in the timeline of the TV show. (And, yes, the show has and will continue to deviate from the comic in some ways, but for the sake of those instances where they're going to be the same, I don't want people talking about something from issue 50 when we're watching episode 11.)

4)This includes anything you've seen or read elsewhere about anything that has not happened within the context of the episodes that have already aired.

Got that? Now what did everybody else think? Did the finale make you more excited for the season's second half, or less?

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

Alan Sepinwall
Sr. Editor, What's Alan Watching

Alan Sepinwall has been reviewing television since the mid-'90s, first for Tony Soprano's hometown paper, The Star-Ledger, and now for HitFix. His new book, "The Revolution Was Televised," about the last 15 years of TV drama, is for sale at Amazon. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

Related Searches: The Walking Dead, Andrew Lincoln, Jon Bernthal, Sarah Wayne Callies, Laure Holden, Jeffrey DeMunn, Norman Reedus, Steven Yeun, Chandler Riggs, Alan Sepinwall

Next 309 Comments

Alex T.

This episode was definitely an improvement on other episodes...but there's still a long way to go for WD to go to the level of greatness of what it should be.
November 27, 2011 at 11:03PM EST Reply to Comment
- stanforduniversity IT had to be an improvment. It couldn't be anything but annoying and boring until tonight.
  I started watching it, so I did have to finish.
  Yes, the last scene was exciting. {not breaking bad exciting} not even close.
  It was torture until tonight, that being said, I might watch it in February. If it starts out like this season, I am finished with the WD.
  Carol is an awlful character. Maybe tonight I liked Maggie, but the season in february has to be in the caliber of tonight for it to gain back many fans. B- is what I would rate it.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:43PM EST
- sepinwall I just had to delete a bunch of comments that violated rule #1 on the blog: TALK ABOUT THE SHOW, NOT EACH OTHER.
  November 28, 2011 at 9:42AM EST
Ben

I suppose there was no way for Herschel to know that the girl walker was Sophia? Although it would be a crazy coincidence for them to find a girl walker around the same time that the group arrived.
November 27, 2011 at 11:06PM EST Reply to Comment
- Jeremy Sollie That's what I thought as well. He had no idea what she looked like so he probably didn't think about it.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:14PM EST
- Glenn saw in the barn and Shane was glued to the hole in the door. Walkers dont hide in the corner for dramatic effect.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:21PM EST
- armofatlas He knew it was Sophia. He knew everyone in the town and she was new. He knew they were looking for a lost girl at the same time he found one. And the level of decomposition was completely different. He knew and was keeping it hidden.
  
  When Rick was trying to convince hershal to let them stay, he said "we can all survive here." And hershal said "no you can't," in a huge moment of foreshadowing. Hershal knew.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:31PM EST
- jason Herschel probably didn't know Sophia was inside the barn since he did say otis had been puting walkers in the barn.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:49PM EST
- C It's now confirmed that Herschel did NOT know about Sophia. In the next episode preview, he stated that Otis put the walkers in the barn.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:51PM EST
- viv Hershel is not know for his honesty. He may have known at first that it was Sophia, but he must know by now what the group does to walkers. Maybe he felt he was protecting Sophia, but also his family in the barn. Because once the truth was out, there was no way to give them back Sophia without risking them killing his barn family.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:15AM EST
- Miles C, please read the rules. That's why your comment will be deleted.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:46AM EST
- consideract Hershel should have known. I think they want to construct the plot so that it falls on Otis not being there, but I find that to be an example of a problem in the writing. It's a clever dodge, but Hershel should be and reads as the type of man who knows what's going on on his land. The story needs them to be thinking about that kind of character issue, that is, what kind of man is Hershel, is he going to just act like a writer's puppet, or is he going to act like the character he is.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:52AM EST
- David To miles, technically it isn't a spoiler that he says Otis put them in the barn. He said it in THIS episode when they were capturing the two walkers in the swamp. But to the other point, I doubt Otis would throw walkers in there and not mention anything about it at supper
  November 28, 2011 at 2:24AM EST
- Remy Perhaps Hershel was being more shrewd than we thought. If he knew that Sophie was in the barn but kept letting the search parties go out, maybe there was a reason. Ultimately he did not want to let the group stay because they would use up extra resources that could go to prolonging his daughter and others lives. So then maybe Hershel was hoping some of the search party members wouldn't come back from their treks. or he knew Sophie was in tbe barn and just didn't care that his guests kept searching because the secret of the barn took precedence over EVERYTHING.
  November 28, 2011 at 4:23AM EST
- Huell Goodman Even if Otis was the one to collect Sophia he probably would have had help from Billy. Regardless, considering Hershel's family were living under the perception that these were sick human beings it would have been particularly tragic to find an unknown lost, sick and alone little girl. In fact, it's likely everyone would have found out - including Maggie. If so, this should have come up in the private discussions between Maggie and Hershel to which we were privy.
  
  Another possibility is that a wandering Sophia stumbled across the barn while still "alive," snuck in looking for shelter and ... *oops!*
  November 28, 2011 at 6:36AM EST
- consideract @Remy - And if Hershel was knowingly hiding Sophia, that fact has tons of room for actual drama, except to use it dramatically would mean you couldn't hide the fact from the viewers until the big reveal. And if he didn't know, he should have, and his not knowing would also create room for dramatic potential that would have been good to explore before now. But you can't get into those kind of issues, if you get distracted by manipulating the plot to create a surprise later. The flowchart is clever, at the expense of the characters and the dramatic potential of any given moment leading up to now.
  November 28, 2011 at 10:17AM EST
- Maggie Q I'm with Viv. I think Hershel knew all along she was in there, but also knew what the others would do once they found out. If he claims he is holding his own family and friends in the barn, he can claim to have some kind of right to do so, however naive and misguided his reasoning is. But once he lets on that Sophia - one of their own - is also in there, it's suddenly not just his business, but theirs as well. He can't argue that it's his decision what to do with his own family if he doesn't concede that Carol has the same right to determine how to deal with her own daughter.
  November 29, 2011 at 8:21AM EST
- Tim I Ok. Im WAYYY late to the finale, but just watched. I was always under the impression that Huell's last comment was the case. She found a barn, and went in, and then fell. Her shoulder was clearly broken like she fell. I think this scenario gives a whole new angle to the show. Sort of proving that killing all the Walkers is the right policy. It's why Rick steps up at the end and shoots her.
  December 2, 2011 at 2:15AM EST
- Hislocal I'm even later than you, Tim.......I think Herschel suspected/knew that the little girl in the barn was Sophia, but his #1 priority was getting our group to leave, so he figured let them stay for a week, search the area, not find her, and move on. It was a "white lie" that would get them gone with minimal impact to his family and farm. That seems pretty in-character to me.
  December 9, 2011 at 10:32AM EST
eric_balsam

Walking dead is such a simple concept, that even after a few sucky episodes, a few good one can restore the series. Its a zombie apocalypse, and thats what people want to see. Show zombies die, viewers are happy
November 27, 2011 at 11:07PM EST Reply to Comment
- J Yes, as long as they are idiots watching for violence and gore. But that isn't the comic, and it isn't what the show wants to be either.
  
  I felt the final scene justified the buildup of the previous several episodes quite effectively.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:10PM EST
- james collins i agree with eric, although maybe the show wants to be more than just showing zombies get shot, and although i do want more than JUST that, the main reason im watching is for zombies, i DONT wanna watch a zombie tv show, where i see less than 5 zobmies in 3 episodes, thats ridiculous this season, overall, has really lacked the feelings i got from the first season, and really i was just desperate to see a bunch of zombies get shot, or running wild or anything that wasnt just looking at a zombie stand there
  December 6, 2011 at 10:32PM EST
- james collins i agree with eric, although maybe the show wants to be more than just showing zombies get shot, and although i do want more than JUST that, the main reason im watching is for zombies, i DONT wanna watch a zombie tv show, where i see less than 5 zobmies in 3 episodes, thats ridiculous this season, overall, has really lacked the feelings i got from the first season, and really i was just desperate to see a bunch of zombies get shot, or running wild or anything that wasnt just looking at a zombie stand there
  December 6, 2011 at 10:32PM EST
Jeremy Sollie

I thought this episode was a step up in many ways, but not without it's fair share of flaws. I had the plot for this episode spoiled but I still found it enjoyable, and seeing the end with Sophia was still shocking even though I knew the outcome.

Some observations.

*While the final scene was effective, Sophia acted a little too unwalkerish for my taste. She walked incredibly slow and didn't do what walkers normally do around people: acknowledge them. She just kind of walked forward. I understand that her being slow made the scene work better, but didn't flow with what the show has set up.

*Carol is a horrible character, and the actress doesn't play her well, though in her defense she isn't given alot. I got a vibe of a romance going on between her and Darryl. I hope not.

*I completely forgot T-Dawg was a character. When he said his line and walked up in the end of the episode it took me a minute to remember who he was. He has been nonexistant for the past 3-4 episodes.

*They really had to do the cliche 'kid cusses' scene and have Shane tell him not too? I've seen that about 100 times.
November 27, 2011 at 11:13PM EST Reply to Comment
- I think her 'unwalkerish' nature was to show you that her group acknowledged her change but might have seen her in a different light. A more human light. A light similar to the way Hershel saw all those in the barn.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:15PM EST
- Jeremy Sollie If this is the case I don't feel it was done that well.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:18PM EST
- It wasnt. Dont let 30 seconds of a flat out horrible 10m stretch make you forgot how poorly the rest of the ending was handled. They couldnt find a better way to cripple Rick than to have no one take his pole?
  November 27, 2011 at 11:23PM EST
- Dislike Button I agree, Cory. The entire episode was supposed to be redeemed by the last 30 seconds, but it still made me angry. Part of the suspense of a good show is in its realism. Creating artificial suspense by having Sophia walk out last, or having NO ONE stop Shane - or even attempt to - is just absurd.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:31PM EST
- keith I don't mind nobody stopping Shane because most of them were secretly agreeing with him.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:16AM EST
- James I agree. By the end when Shane had given everyone their guns they were ready to rock n roll. Except maybe Glen, he was a little hesitant until Maggie gave him the ok.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:35PM EST
- Some Guy Yeah, I don't think that the whole nobody stopping Shane thing is really a valid criticism when, as far as we know, the rest of the group (and even Rick, to be honest) wanted to clear out the barn in the first place. The other farm people may have agreed with Herschel but they were outnumbered by a bunch of people with guns including one who was in a fit of rage.
  November 28, 2011 at 4:04PM EST
- Dan Yeah, totally agree re: no one stopping Shane. It wasn't contrived... they all agreed with him. Plus, maybe they were a bit scared of him by that point. I know I would've been.
  November 30, 2011 at 10:39AM EST
- Al'tair No one stopped Shane, because they were in the mood for shooting already. Before they saw Rick helping Herschel to get the walkers in the barn, Shane was already handling guns, even to Carl. its humanly stimulating to SHOOT. Everybody was not CRIPPLED to stop Shane... humanly they just wanted to SHOOOOT.
  November 30, 2011 at 9:09PM EST
- Hislocal As far as Sophia walkng out a) last; and b) slowly......this is a dramatic television show. To call it unrealistic is missing the point. People don't really speak in rhyme in real life, but all the best songs are written that way.......same thing with shows - the people shooting (not to mention Carol) would probably have their own personal slow-motion moment when they saw/realized it was Sophia, even if she was mixed in the pack. This was a dramatic television way of presenting that emotion to the viewer. I totally saw the "surprise" coming, but I still was 100% into it. Great scene.
  December 9, 2011 at 10:39AM EST
chris_mcdevitt

I think that Otis was the one who put Sofia in the barn. Hershel mentioned at the 'mire' that Otis used to do the wrangling into the barn. Since Otis got waxed Hershel and Co. might not have known about the presence of the girl.
November 27, 2011 at 11:13PM EST Reply to Comment
- C 100% correctamundo.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:52PM EST
- consideract Except he should have known, and the man that Hershel is as a character would have known. I think it's clear he didn't know, and for that I blame the writers loving too much their idea of using Otis as a clever dodge.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:55AM EST
- Huell Goodman I suppose this explanation could work if Otis found Sophia literally right before the crisis with Carl. Still, you'd think a brief exchange would have taken place with someone.
  
  Remember, in Hershel-ville there are sick human beings. There's no: "Welp, tossed a pint-sized walker in the barn. Gotta go hunt some deer." Rather, it would be closer to:
  "whom did you put in the barn?"
  "Some poor little girl - a stranger."
  "Oh my, that's so sad!"
  November 28, 2011 at 6:54AM EST
Veronica

I think I'm the only one who didn't see the Daryl/Carol moments as potential coupling. It felt like more a brother/sister thing to me.

I've got to disagree with you Alan on the writing of Maggie's character. She's not only as one-dimensional as the other female characters, but she changes her mind more often than she breathes. She's quickly become more annoying than Lori which I didn't think was possible.
November 27, 2011 at 11:15PM EST Reply to Comment
- Maggie Or a mother/son moment. He already told her he never had anyone care about him. I never thought romantic.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:07AM EST
- Col Bat Guano More annoying than Lori? Is that even possible? I thought she was the gold standard of bad TV characters.
  November 28, 2011 at 2:10AM EST
- Huell Goodman "...she changes her mind more often than she breathes."
  
  Sounds like a realistic female character to me. ;)
  
  Sorry. Couldn't resist.
  November 28, 2011 at 6:57AM EST
- Blake Col: Andrea is more annoying than Lori.
  
  If there's an Emmy for most annoying female characters, this show could sweep the nominations.
  November 28, 2011 at 11:53AM EST
- GarySF The irony is the actress who plays Andrea was so awesome on The Shield, and while I haven't yet read Alan's 3 yr anniversary homage to that series' finale, she was a vital part of it. So in some cases at least, we know the fault lies with the writers, not the actors.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:22PM EST
- James I thought Betty Draper was the gold standard for bad TV characters.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:37PM EST
GlockGuy22

Personally, I've been watching these episodes from right around the start. I do like the idea of getting to know the charecters better. I think the walking dead is an awesome show and it has potential. The farm scenes were good but tonight did it for me, I thought it was great. I can't wait for the next episode.
November 27, 2011 at 11:17PM EST Reply to Comment
Mojo CoCo

The long drawn out scene with the cathcpole before Shane even opens the door was the final nail in this shows coffin. He could have even sic'd it on Shane to stop him/get someone to shoot it. God that was stupid! Oh and of all the people who looked into the barn, not one of them saw Sophia? You can argue that she wasnt there when Glenn went in, but they probably all looked (and we know for a fact Shane obsessed over the barn). Walkers do not hide! He would have had to see her. Well, there's some much needed space on my dvr schedule freeing up. AMC will regret firing Darabont. He wasn't responsible for this crap.
November 27, 2011 at 11:20PM EST Reply to Comment
- Colm Wasn't this the last of the Darabont involvement episodes?
  November 27, 2011 at 11:30PM EST
- viv The zombie would have gone after the closest thing. Which would have been Rick or anyone else in the group, including Carl.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:10AM EST
- Joseph Silly criticisms. Everyone was shell shocked at what was happening. There were ten people there - did you want Rick to yell at the zombie he had: "Go boy! Go get Shane!" and expect the zombie to attack Shane and not, say, Carl? And there were several dozen zombies in the barn - Glenn was in the loft for a minute, looked down, and got the hell out of the barn. Would your first reaction in that situation be to carefully scan all walkers to see if one was Sophia?
  November 28, 2011 at 1:34AM EST
- Dave I I kind of agree with Joseph. Everybody was stunned by what was going on, and it is totally believable they would just freeze for a bit. Isn't that what tends to happen in those "What Would You Do" type of specials? Most people just freeze. Shane has been noted as a man of action, so his actions seem appropriate. Rick was still holding onto the idea of appeasing Herschel, so did not act until he had to then did the thing that needed to be done that nobody else, including Shane, could or would do (which is why he's the leader). Besides, why would he want to sic anything on Shane? Shane's being a douche, but it's not like Rick's MO has been to try and get people he was disagreeing with bitten by zombies.
  
  As for knowing Sophia was in the barn? She's the smallest so they might not have seen her since:
  
  1) Sophia was the smallest and therefore easiest to miss.
  2) It is not like they had a chance to serenely take a close look to see if Sophia was in there. Glen saw it in the night surprised to even see them there in the first place, and the rest of them saw inside through peek holes.
  3) Herschel mentioned that Otis captured a lot of the roaming walkers. So Herschel might have not known she was in there, or at least not known it was her that Otis caught. Not the strongest plot point, but hardly that unbelievable, especially since this all happened pretty fast so Otis almost had to have caught Sophia right before shooting Carl and then subsequently getting eaten alive by zombies. It's understandable he'd forget to mention that to Shane as he's being eaten alive.
  
  -Cheers
  November 28, 2011 at 4:00PM EST
- Miles, yes actually I did expect it to go right for Shane because every other person in the show was *behind* Rick. The Walker was already clawing at the air in Shane's direction
  
  Dave, I mentioned multiple people looking in bc one person missing a little girl is plausible two-ten is not. Especially since they would have seen a smallish one and immediately tried to find out if it was her.
  
  Also Dave, you're making stuff up now. Albeit, excuses that are far better than what the show offered. You're just flat out making stuff up with 3. It's a nice theory, but what was seen doesn't coincide. ESPECIALLY since Otis knew they were looking for a little girl! In his shame and guilt, I imagine he would have jumped at the opportunity to make himself feel less horrible by letting them know that he had found her (even if she was dead).
  
  This was the day after she went missing after all.
  November 29, 2011 at 3:29AM EST
- Dave I I'm not making stuff up, at least I don't think so. Nobody in the group would have gotten a good look inside the barn, so I buy in their fleeting glimpses through a hole in the wall they might have missed a young girl. I think Otis could have been preoccupied with the fact he nearly killed Carl and then, almost immediately thereafter, got killed off. It's not the strongest plot point, and yeah I could see Otis mentioning it if he was even asked, but I can at least sort of buy Otis being so devastated by having accidentally shot Carl that he would not think to mention he also trapped a small girl to Herschel (not to mention the fact at that point it was still a secret). Since they made the point of talking about how Otis was the zombie-catcher, and Herschel did not say anything so he seemingly did not know (plus Kirkman kind of confirmed this from what I'm reading, so it probably did not come up in the short time between catching Sophia and him dying), it is heavily implied that is kind of what happened.
  
  Not to just make excuses for the show, however I can roll with them not talking about the zombies much (I'd imagine Herschel is bummed out enough by his wife being undead that Otis would not necessarily walk in and discuss a kid being turned) and then Otis had a lot on his plate between then and the rest of his arc.
  
  I am not saying it could not have been better, just that I can roll with it even if I do think the characters should be acting smarter a lot of the time.
  
  -Cheers
  November 29, 2011 at 10:28AM EST
alynch

"Even if Rick couldn't let go of the catch pole and Hershel was too shocked to take it himself, why did no one else in either group either stop Shane or let Rick do it? I buy deeply moral - or deluded - Hershel being paralyzed in that moment, but everybody?"

I actually didn't have much of problem with it. The way I see it, Rick was the only one who disagreed with Shane strongly enough to intervene at that moment. All of them were pretty uneasy about the barn, so they were letting Shane do what deep down they wanted to do anyway.
November 27, 2011 at 11:20PM EST Reply to Comment
- So Rick couldn't have sic'd the walker on him? It would have freed him up and either stopped Shane or forced someone else to take/kill it. Theyre dangerous remember? He had something worse than a pitbull raging to get out of that loop and it was aimed only at Shane.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:24PM EST
- alynch Using a zombie as a weapon would be the dumbest thing anyone has ever done on this show, and that's saying something.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:38PM EST
- Daniel Cory, you are being a bit redickulous...
  November 28, 2011 at 2:12AM EST
- Huell Goodman "All of them were pretty uneasy about the barn, so they were letting Shane do what deep down they wanted to do anyway."
  
  Agreed. I love what they're doing with Shane's character. In a safe civilized world Shane is a psychopath, but in this new horrible world Shane can be a voice of "reason."
  
  How do you keep people sleeping in tents unarmed with a rickety barn full of zombies right next to them? How can you sit back and watch the people in your clan get tossed out into the wilderness because of the delusions of a crazy old man?
  
  Finally, Shane spot Rick playing along with Hershel's asinine Best in Show spectacle, completely loses his sh*t and says ENOUGH of this insanity.
  
  Not that Shane is in any way an ideal leader. Rather, it was a matter of Rick stepping up and accepting certain realities - which he did.
  
  Still, I don't see Shane as a cartoon villain here. He's more of the crazy battlefield general who fares best when tempered by a more collected commander - say, Patton to Rick's Eisenhower.
  November 28, 2011 at 7:31AM EST
- FINSBURY While Shane's behavior (opening the barn) was extreme, it was completely rational.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:03PM EST
- ZEKE I could see burning the barn or picking them off from the rafters, maybe, but Shane's course of action was reckless and irresponsible, especially with unarmed people, including a little boy, in the immediate area. One stray walker slips by and you have a bigger disaster on your hands - one of many unacceptable variables. In the moments before Shane opened the barn doors, I could easily have justified a leg shot to put an end to his idiotic actions. But I get it for dramatic purposes - awesome scene.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:14PM EST
- Alynch/Daniel How is using the only weapon available to you stupid? Rick obviously forgot he had a pistol until he was allowed to shoot a kid. So why exactly would he not use a walker to distract Shane from releasing 20ish walkers? Rick standing there holding the pole as if he was chained in place was the single stupidest thing the show has ever done IMO. There was no, absolutely no, real reason to open the barn. It had multiple points at which guns could be fired in and even rafters in which they could have killed the walkers. There was no real reason to let Shane release them like that and even less reason to cripple the show's main character as he did so.
  November 29, 2011 at 3:33AM EST
BoulderKid

Why was Dale hiding the guns in the forest? Just so Shane get a hold of them? Dale is easily the worst character on the show. I don't know if the writers want us to respect Dale as a humane patriarch like figure, or as a busybody who is jealous of Shane because he is stronger than him and is in control of his own destiny.
November 27, 2011 at 11:35PM EST Reply to Comment
- LindyK I think Dale will be knocked off.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:23AM EST
- Elevation Yeah I'm a little none of the annoying characters of consequence became a zombie. Dale, Carol, Carl, etc. would all look great as walkers right about now.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:09AM EST
- Col Bat Guano Dale's stealing the guns was another one of those moments in show where I just don't get what the writers are trying to do. Were we really supposed to side with him against Shane in that situation? Because I didn't. The whole Herschel idea that somehow you can live without guns and be safe is foolish in the extreme. Every waking moment of the survivors should be spent on either creating a sanctuary or killing zombies and both those things require everyone carrying a weapon. Shane is right.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:13AM EST
- anon.z.moose @Col. Batmerde- Yeah, I too was so annoyed that it was hard to read motivation into Dale except that he had totally lost his mind. But later reading Dale in the most favorable light I decided perhaps he was only getting the guns out of the way temporarily to keep Shane et al. from killing the barn zombies and spoiling whatever negotiation Rick was making with Herschel. That's how I plan to look at it until the show tells me differently.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:24AM EST
- Col Bat Guano I can see your charitable explanation, but how was there going to be any sort of successful negotiation with Herschel? There is no middle ground between kill them all and let them live. The final outcome was the only one that could occur.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:40AM EST
- zorra I can't tell what the writers' intentions are re: Dale, either, but I've pretty much had it with him thinking he knows what's best for everyone. Taking away Andrea's gun was completely obnoxious; the self-righteousness with which he did so and his expecting her to thank him were much, much worse. (Thank goodness she called him on it.) I read his actions with the guns in the same light: he felt that he alone saw Shane's true character and that he needed to get the guns away from Shane to keep everyone safe. Dale seems to have cast himself as the wise, compassionate one who will do anything to keep the others safe -- but in my opinion, he's the self-righteous, arrogant, obnoxious one who thinks he's better than everyone else. He drives me crazy.
  November 28, 2011 at 4:06AM EST
- consideract #Negotiation - this is one of the areas where there could have been a lot more going on dramatically. Hershel is right that these people can't stay if he wants to collect walkers in his barn, but his real problem is that there are other people in the world, and when/if this group leaves, he risks someone worse coming along who is not going to play nice. Thus, Rick has some leverage to negotiate, and Hershel has some incentive to change-up his thinking about such things. The conversation between Maggie and Hershel was terrific, in this regard. Even if I were a Hershel-type of character, I would be thinking, maybe I better deal with this group or face someone one worse alone later. That kind of consideration, even from a resistant Hershel, would have moved the drama along, even at a slower country pace. This is the problem. They're not digging deep enough. Maybe they'll get to this stuff (they are headed that way dramatically), but that's the problem, they seem to think they have time to get this stuff later, after the big reveal. And that is the critique I bring to a show I otherwise like...creative tension is critical, you can't put it off, you need to embrace it...otherwise, you get plot contrivances. The characters need to hold an intervention, and grab the writers by their collars! ;-}
  November 28, 2011 at 11:56AM EST
- consideract #Negotiation - this is one of the areas where there could have been a lot more going on dramatically. Hershel is right that these people can't stay if he wants to collect walkers in his barn, but his real problem is that there are other people in the world, and when/if this group leaves, he risks someone worse coming along who is not going to play nice. Thus, Rick has some leverage to negotiate, and Hershel has some incentive to change-up his thinking about such things. The conversation between Maggie and Hershel was terrific, in this regard. Even if I were a Hershel-type of character, I would be thinking, maybe I better deal with this group or face someone one worse alone later. That kind of consideration, even from a resistant Hershel, would have moved the drama along, even at a slower country pace. This is the problem. They're not digging deep enough. Maybe they'll get to this stuff (they are headed that way dramatically), but that's the problem, they seem to think they have time to get this stuff later, after the big reveal. And that is the critique I bring to a show I otherwise like...creative tension is critical, you can't put it off, you need to embrace it...otherwise, you get plot contrivances. The characters need to hold an intervention, and grab the writers by their collars! ;-}
  November 28, 2011 at 11:56AM EST
- consideract I wish we could delete accidentally duplicated posts! Can "someone" with power delete it?
  November 28, 2011 at 11:59AM EST
- FINSBURY AGREE - " Every waking moment of the survivors should be spent on either creating a sanctuary or killing zombies and both those things require everyone carrying a weapon. "
  
  THIS WAS THE FLAW TO THIS SEASON.
  
  This episode was good b/c we finally got a sense of why the farm was safe (the muck) and the group finally spoke honestly about the value of searching for Sophia and Glen came clean with the barn. Wouldn't the group be analyzing the safety of their environament, constantly? Was the safety of the farm supposed to be a mystery? Rick's group would never allow it to be a mystery. The writers only give us a hint as to how the farm is safe when the explain how Hershel got the walkers into the barn. While the characters would have been sensitive to Carol, wouldn't they all be discussing the value of searching for Sophie v. the group safety with each other? Instead, we saw one brief conversation with Rick and Shane and Shane's explosion.
  
  Like "The Killing", we got 2 to 4 filler episodes that proved to have little or no value in the end.
  
  I have no idea what Dale was doing with the guns. If his motivation was to prevent Shane from opening the barn, it wasn't set up clearly.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:11PM EST
- Boulderkid, he was hiding the guns because the narrative required him to do so in order for Shane to arrive at the barn at the exact moment Rick had a tethered walker/bag of kryptonite. It was easily the episodes most blatant *twist* that served only to move item B into character A's hands
  November 29, 2011 at 3:35AM EST
- Kujo I really dumb scene that really didn't make any sense. Just flat out bad writing.
  November 29, 2011 at 8:22AM EST
- JonDee I think Dale was hiding the guns because he believed Shane was about to turn on living humans: killing Herschel and whoever needed to die in his clan in order to take over the farm. Dale already strongly suspects that Shane will murder to futher his own ends; he has two instances (suspicion re. Otis and Shane aiming at Rick in the woods) to support this. It was risky, but I think understandable under the circumstances. Notice too that Dale wasn't throwing all the guns into the swamp to be lost forever; they were wrapped up in plastic for safekeeping.
  
  Dale is the only one who understands that right now, Shane is a bigger threat to the group than the Walkers.
  November 29, 2011 at 1:33PM EST
- Col Bat Guano "Dale is the only one who understands that right now, Shane is a bigger threat to the group than the Walkers."
  
  If Dale believes this then he is an even bigger idiot than I imagined. There is no need to kill Herschel because he represents no threat to them. He can't make any of them leave if they don't want to.
  
  November 29, 2011 at 9:16PM EST
- JonDee Since when is Shane about doing what needs to be done? He's just about doing what Shane wants to do, and lashing out at whatever is in his way. Did Shane *need* to release the barn Walkers? Of course not, but he did it anyway. Dale knew that, if frustrated, Shane would turn on Herschel and his family and defy them. With Shane involved, this would likely turn to murder sooner or later, and probably sooner; that's Shane's M.O. after all. Dale was buying time. It was a good call.
  November 30, 2011 at 8:47AM EST
- consideract The main thing is Dale was right. Whether to not Dale specifically thought it was going to get to a point where Shane would kill people (Hershel, family, anyone who gets in his way), he knew Shane was about to explode and knew Shane was going to use force. And, Dale was right. Leave aside Shane's violent tantrum. More to the point here is Shane's darkly muttered line that Hershel will just have to understand. That aspect of Shane is what bothered Dale enough to do something so crazy in its own right as to hide the guns. But he was right. Right about Shane, right about where the most danger and risk is at this moment. Shane is not the only one to think keeping walkers in the barn is crazy; he's right about that. It is crazy. It's not like Shane knows something no one else does, despite his ego, despite it not being handled *his* way. This world is chock full crazy. You going to start having a tantrum every time you see crazy and don't get *your* way, especially without facing predictable hurdles? That is suicidal. Just as suicidal is the decreasing circumference of who Shane includes in his inner circle. I have seen close-up what happens when a man implodes like this. He may survive physically, alone, or very nearly alone. But ultimately, if he continues down this path, even given the need of having every living body, he becomes too much of a liability to keep around, to be part of any vital (non-tyrannical) group, much less a leader. Especially when you have bad-a** Daryl right there, just as tough as Shane but nowhere near as insane, necklace of ears included.
  November 30, 2011 at 10:48AM EST
- Col Bat Guano There is no world in which I would find Dale's actions justifiable. Perhaps at some point in the future when the survivors have some semblance of safety they can begin a debate about the necessity of violence, but at this point these people are living on the ragged edge. Taking away their ability to protect themselves because of some vague idea of Shane's instability is nuts. What if the zombies had discovered the farm? Would Dale calmly reason with them while he ran to the swamp? If he was concerned about Shane then he needed to argue his position with the group, not destroy their only means of staying alive. Just because the show has done a terrible job this season of signaling the danger they are all in is no reason for us to forget.
  December 1, 2011 at 1:07AM EST
- consideract What I was pointing out was that Dale's concerns were not vague idea of Shane's instability. Shane proved Dale right immediately after he took the guns back from Dale.
  
  The issue is not about violence. Dale is not hiding the guns because he is a pacifist. In essence, however ill-advised, he is doing the post-apocalyptic equivalent of locking the guns in the gun safe to keep them away from the angry, dysfunctional, threatening teenager raging around the house.
  
  Don't get me wrong. Hiding the guns is extremely risky in this world. But it is justifiable, and Shane justified it in the time it took him to walk back to the farm. That doesn't mean I advocate it as a smart move. It just means I think it shows how dangerous Dale thinks Shane is. And about *that* he is correct. Hiding the guns, not so much.
  
  December 1, 2011 at 12:35PM EST
- JonDee Yup. Dale read Shane right, and sure enough the first thing Shane did upon his return to the farm was to create a situation that absolutley demanded immediate violence. It also violated their host's wishes in a way that should just about guarantee the group's eviction (short of brandishing the arsenal and saying "make us", which is hardly a stable or productive arrangement). Shane needlessly precipitated a head-on confrontation at the barn, and now things should only go badly. ("Should", but narrative requirements of an ongoing tv show will likely mitigate this.)
  
  Hiding the guns was risky, but there was still a lookout with a rifle plus handguns carried around the place by various people. Imperfect, but Shane's reckless, petulant, domineering nature and love of violence was a known and very real risk, while a sudden Walker assault on the farm, safe for so long, just a possibility.
  
  I thought the whole conceit of the show was that the "Walking Dead" aren't the Walkers themselves, but Our Heroes as they tend toward deadened, violent, individualistic survivalism. Shane's already there. I think Dale saw that others were headed in Shane's direction due to its superficial appeal without understanding the cost -- hence the conversation "Do you want to be like him? You don't know him at all."
  
  Dale's burdened by being the only one who saw Shane aiming a gun at Rick, and it's given him unique insight into what Shane is capable of (hence his suspicion about Otis, though he can't be the only one...). February will be interesting.
  December 1, 2011 at 2:07PM EST
Matt

I watch the show, but don't necessarily enjoy it. I enjoy the whole zombie apocalypse concept. However, I don't know if it's the acting, direction or writing, but there is at least one part in every episode where I can't help but laugh. And I know it's not a scene I should be laughing at.
November 27, 2011 at 11:35PM EST Reply to Comment
- Lee I found the zombie-wrangling to be pretty comical, both in concept and execution. Was I hearing things or did Herschel compare it to herding cats?
  November 27, 2011 at 11:50PM EST
memem

I keep wondering why Sophia wasn't eaten by the zombies when she got bit .
November 27, 2011 at 11:39PM EST Reply to Comment
- C That's assuming she actually was bitten. She could have died from any number of reasons: eaten something poisonous, snakebite, a fall - anything.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:48PM EST
- armofatlas If she had died naturally, she would have stayed dead. There was an obvious bite on her left neck/shoulder. We keep seeing zombies pop out of places. One probably got her by surprise and she managed to get away. Just to die later and walk again.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:06AM EST
- jason If humans don't have to be bitten by walkers to turn into one then why didn't daryl turn into a walker after his arrow pierced his side
  November 28, 2011 at 12:08AM EST
- Brian Jason, because he didn't die.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:55AM EST
- Joseph It seems like this has to be explained every time someone dies on the show - the walkers only eat live meat. Once the person dies they are no longer interested. If a walker completely ate every person they killed, there would be no new walkers.
  Also, what ARMOFATLAS said.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:38AM EST
- anon.z.moose This is nit-picky but it seems like the bite was on the back of her neck. Seems very unlikely she would have gotten away if something bit her there. Since I doubt the Walkers stop eating immediately once something dies - recall the consumption of Rick's horse - the fresh kill period should be long enough that the original criticism (@memem) stands. A bite on the arm would have been more believable in terms of her getting away and being zombified. But it would have looked less creepy. Nice reveal shot when you see the bite and I gather they judged that more important.
  November 28, 2011 at 2:26AM EST
- Walker Texas Ranger As far as I can tell, the zombie virus is transmitted through the saliva of a walker. A victim is bitten. If he doesn't escape, he is eaten, but as long as the brain survives, whatever's left, reanimates. (See crawling lady in first episode.) If the victim is bitten and escapes, the virus kills him after a certain period and then his body reanimates as a walker.
  
  I would think the idea that everyone reanimates as a walker after death, whether bitten or not, would be a hell of a twist, but the corpses in the cars seems to work against that. (Unless, they are the corpses of walkers who were taken out.) The writers have done a sloppy job of explaining the rules, so all this is just a guess.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:28PM EST
- Dave I @Walker, for what it's worth, at least in the source material the rules are kind of ambiguous. I think people have been killed through non-zombie means and come back. One possibility is that if you get bit you turn, however once you die there is still something (maybe an airborn variant) that takes over once your immune system stops fighting that strain (or whatever). That's not something they've explained, just my theory, however they have had people die (gunshot wound in one case, I believe, decidedly NOT a zombie bite though) only to come back. Maybe it's like the flu or hepatitis (or really ANY virus) where there are different strains that act somehow differently yet still have similar results.
  
  -Cheers
  November 28, 2011 at 4:08PM EST
- Le Sigh, spoilers from the comics... A better twist would have been Rick revealing what was told to him by the guy at the CDC. See above lol
  November 29, 2011 at 3:37AM EST
memem

Why wasn't Sophia eaten by the walkers when she got bit
November 27, 2011 at 11:45PM EST Reply to Comment
- C You don't have to be bitten to turn into a walker. You just have to be dead.
  November 27, 2011 at 11:53PM EST
- Anon.Z.Moose @C: I don't think that's canon in the tv show; just speculation about what the CDC doctor might have whispered to Rick: i.e. that everyone has been exposed at a low level and when they die they can become a zombie. The other theory being that he told him Lori was pregnant. So I don't think we can assume this based on what we know in the show.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:08AM EST
- C Good point, but I seriously doubt Kirkman would allow them to stray so far from that concept.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:16AM EST
- Brian C, That's a concept that didn't develop for a (fairly) long time.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:57AM EST
- Remy Again, wouldn't it be nice to know explicitly what the CDC doctor whispered to Rick? Just a little payoff from last season would be welcomed. Obviously it's not about Lori's pregnancy. Didn't this come up earlier in the season?--Rick alluded to it but I can't remember the context. Maybe we will find out in the next set of episodes.
  November 28, 2011 at 4:35AM EST
- Huell Goodman I believe C. is right. The low level exposure idea that anyone who dies can become a zombie is pretty standard in the George Romero (Night of the Living Dead, etc.) canon. From what I've heard Kirkman says he's faithful to this view.
  
  Still, that doesn't explain why - for example - you had lots of non-zombie corpses on the highway, etc.
  
  Now, regarding Laurie's pregnancy, if indeed one doesn't have to be bitten could Laurie's abortion attempt have lead to some "Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal!" type complications?
  November 28, 2011 at 8:01AM EST
- rcade One of the rules here is to not reveal events from the comic that occur after what we're seeing on the show. Please reread the four rules in Alan's post.
  November 28, 2011 at 9:58AM EST
- GarySF Remy: in the 1st or 2nd ep of the season, Rick is talking into the walkie talkie to the black guy from season 1 and says, (the CDC doc) told me something...not gonna get into it now." It was a tease, and I also hoped that would've been revealed by the season break. I think he told her that Lori was pregnant, as he'd tested the blood of everyone, and Rick's reaction was consistent with that.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:35PM EST
- James I read an interview with one of the producers last night (Hollywood Reporter I think), and he said the reveal about what the CDC guy said is coming sooner rather than later.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:54PM EST
Dan

Enjoyed the episode, it was an exciting finish to the show. It's weird, I know they're dead and dangerous, but I couldn't help but look on in horror at the slaughter. And really Shane's transformation from being Sayid in season 1 to Sayid in Season 6, right before they get on the sub, has really shown what can happen to the people who aren't the walkers. I feel like they're setting up the same transformation for Andrea. It looks like Rick is going to have a Shane problem going forward in a big way.

Shane needs to be out of the group; I don't know where I'd go from here if I was Rick. I don't know what post apocalyptic justice looks like. Do they send him out on his own or keep him in the barn or what.

I'm glad they didn't let the Sophia plotline linger through the break, and even if the twist was a bit contrived, it was still good to watch.

November 27, 2011 at 11:47PM EST Reply to Comment
- viv Rick and Shane have a big problem because the truth still isn't out. And because they've got very different leadership styles. I don't see the group throwing Shane out, because he was right. If he'd done nothing, they'd still go out looking for Sophia and risking their lives.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:03AM EST
- Dan But what Shane did wasn't for the purposes of finding Sophia. You can hardly give him credit for the fact that Sophia happened to be in the barn. Had they done nothing to the barn, it's far more likely that Hershel would have put 2 and 2 together and said something. Possibly as soon as they put the 2 new walkers in the barn. It's pretty clear that even if they shot up the barn and Sophia wasn't in it, they'd still be looking for her.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:30AM EST
eric_balsam

Shane was right in what he did. Think about it, if you are in a world of zombies and you see your leader (Rick), wrangling a couple zombies with sticks to put them in the barn, that would be a major wtf moment. They are zombies, and extremely dangerous. Rick just got caught in the act, doing something really stupid. I would definitely question his leadership skills.

On a side note, Shane is just too unstable to be a leader.
November 27, 2011 at 11:57PM EST Reply to Comment
- IO Contrary to the hamfisted writers' intent, Shane is the only sympathetic character on this show, because he's the only one who isn't a complete idiot. Were we seriously supposed to be siding with Dale over Shane in that confrontation, or think that clearing out the barn wasn't clearly the only non-moronic choice? What viewers wouldn't have been happy if Shane had shot Dale and got that awful character off the show?
  November 28, 2011 at 12:05AM EST
- viv Shane as a leader would look out for a very small core group. The others like Glenn and Dale would be cut lose as he thought needed. Rick tries to save everyone, but the problem with that strategy is that he'd probably get many of them killed.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:05AM EST
- chuckie You know, I didn't think it was possible to come across anyone dumber than our crew. Then, we met Hershel. He makes the folks portrayed on that Fatal Attractions program look like rocket scientists. I felt no turmoil during the final scenes of tonight's episode, other than to wonder why it took them so long. And why anyone would listen to a word Rick or Dale say from now on. Utter morons.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:22AM EST
- bbq_hax0r I agree with IO, I can't help but continually side with Shane as the only one willing to embrace this new world. Shane contemplated murdering his friend, tried to rape Sara Tancredi, killed Otis, is prone to emotional outbursts and yet I can't but help side with him during a majority of these conversations. I don't know if its poor writing or what. I fear the writers will keep trying to make Shane more and more unlikeable to really drive the point home that he is the "bad guy."
  
  Maybe we can hope that Rick and Shane balance themselves and their presence brings each one back towards the 'middle' so to speak, or that Rick finally acting like a leader at the end of the episode snaps some sense into him.
  
  It's a zombie apocalypse, survival is the most important thing.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:32AM EST
- consideract @BBQ - it is poor writing. Give a stronger version of Dale's argument to a real leader, and Shane comes off as he is, a brittle, terrified weak man masquerading in his own mind as a hero. In setting this up as Dale vs. Shane, it is just a straw-man argument. Survival is important and that is why Shane is so dangerous.
  November 28, 2011 at 2:03AM EST
- consideract I am much more interested in Daryl, who is no slouch in the walker shooting department. The problem with Shane is his disrespect of his fellow humans, not his walker killing skills.
  November 28, 2011 at 2:05AM EST
- Elevation Yeah I was also a member of Team Shane. Killing the pack of zombies that were being held together only by a dilapidated barn 50 yards from the camp was the only solution.
  
  Everyone else is too white bread.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:13AM EST
- JonDee Disagree. Shane is nuts and has the emotional depth and insight of an adolescent. The barn walkers were contained and there was time to deal with them. It's Herschel's land and he gets to say how it's used; if the group can't agree to that, they have to leave. Shane's actions might have just guaranteed that eviction; and then the only alternatives are leave, or take the farm by force. The result is at least a badly unstable community. And that approach only works until other survivors might appear with greater numbers and/or more guns. Shane's methods produce a dog-eat-dog world, and that's exactly what is NOT required for humanity's survival in the Walking Dead world.
  
  Despite the absurdity of lassoing Walkes, Rick knows he still has time to reach some kind of agreement. Again, the barn walkers are contained and they'd set a watch. Shane's actions were reckless, unnecessary, and endangered the group's long-term welfare. Not bad for a child, but no kind of man.
  November 29, 2011 at 1:40PM EST
GarySF

Storytelling FAIL: Herschel's wife was among the barn walkers, so why didn't the camera highlight her death, and Herschel's reaction. Yes, he was anguished over what was happening, but not more so for one walker over another. I was waiting for him to yell NO when they had his wife in their sights, then wage holy hell on Rick's group after they put her down. The final scene was dramatic, but it could've and should've been moreso.
November 28, 2011 at 12:03AM EST Reply to Comment
- SusanG I completely agree. I was waiting for the heart-wrenching recognition of Herschel seeing his wife and stepson get shot, but nothing. I really hope there's faster character development in February. Right now, it seems like everyone except Glen is really static.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:16AM EST
- VisionOn Yep, the show made a big deal about his family being in the barn but apparently it wasn't a big enough deal to get a reaction from ANY member of the farm family.
  
  At least they saved the dramatic denouement to put a bullet in the dead plotline of Sophia that they dragged out for what seems like forever.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:59AM EST
- eddie willers I'm not sure just what Herschel's thoughts were during the onslaught.
  
  It could be that Shane's proof they really weren't alive after multiple shootings of lungs and hearts convinced him after all and it might have been a moment like Alec Guinness in "The Bridge on the River Kwai".
  November 28, 2011 at 1:16AM EST
- zorra I had the same thought. When the camera went back in the barn and we realized there was still a walker inside, I thought it would be Hershel's wife -- until the camera focused on Sophia's shoes.
  November 28, 2011 at 4:13AM EST
- JB I agree - Hershel's reaction should have been stronger, and they should have shown his wife specifically. But did anyone else catch him saying under his breath - and of course, it being "dubbed out" - the F-word? I could swear I saw that, and figured that it was his extreme reaction to the carnage.
  November 28, 2011 at 10:56AM EST
- Walker Texas Ranger The director did not highlight Herschel's wife during the initial slaughter because he wanted viewers to think the last walker standing was Herschel's wife before revealing it to be Sophia.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:14PM EST
- armofatlas The writer used the whole scene to drive several points home (though somewhat ineffectively).
  
  Hershal was in shock. He had lived in denial and was now forced to face a reality that he want prepared for.
  
  In the same stroke, Sophia came "strolling" out of the barn which forced the entire group to see the walkers through Hershal's eyes.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:19PM EST
- Mango I actually saw Herschel react. There is a walker who get her mouth blown off and at this moment Herschel lets out a large gasp. I think this was his wife.
  November 28, 2011 at 8:15PM EST
- Dezbot @Mango, that was his wife, as confirmed by Greg Nicotero on The Talking Dead. They also said they filmed two scenes with Sophia coming out, one where she looked normal (what the group *wanted* to see), and one with her zombified. The director (female, btw) decided the two scenes were two confusing and stuck with zombified Sophia.
  November 28, 2011 at 8:41PM EST
troopermsu

More excited. I thought the 2nd half of the episode was the best we've seen in this series to date.
November 28, 2011 at 12:16AM EST Reply to Comment
armofatlas

I know Rick is trying to take the moral high road with everything, but this was a bit much. There was no doubt that the barn needed to be taken care of, but allowing Shane to do it in a cartoon-ish tantrum is absurd. He had a gun. Shoot the walker on the leader pole and make Shane stop.

I would have been more satisfied with the ending if, after killing Sophisticated, Rick had turned around and put a bullet in Shane's head.

*I know it would never happen for various reasons, but it would be nice*
November 28, 2011 at 12:16AM EST Reply to Comment
- sepinwall Just had to delete a bunch of comments in this particular thread because they went against the rules I posted about not discussing events from the comics that have yet to happen on the show.
  November 28, 2011 at 8:11AM EST
It's Albert Swearengen, Mrs. Bullock

Meh...this whole half season has seemed like a setup for the final scene and it just did not work for me. Aside from Sophia being a child, there was little reason for the audience to be emotionally involved with the character or her fate. Even with the resolution, I was glad to be rid of her and the awful plot contrivance, so that the story could move forward. Too much of this half season hinged on characters being or doing stupid things -- Glenn into the well, Dale trying to get rid of the guns(What?), shooting Daryl while all the others are surrounding him -- that the payoff never felt like it was worth the time. The show has suffered since Darabont's departure and I'm hoping that the second half picks up. Otherwise, I'm done.

Why is T-dog on the show? When has he had a meaningful line this season? The Carol/Daryl flirtation bit is awful too. And if your season is 13 episodes long, you don't break it up.
November 28, 2011 at 12:18AM EST Reply to Comment
viv

Now that the baby news is out, when does the truth about the potential fathers come out? We've seen Shane get progressively darker, and Lori to an extent. But they're both dealing with the burden of secrets that Rick doesn't have to deal with. When does the truth start getting to him and changing him?
November 28, 2011 at 12:20AM EST Reply to Comment
- Dave I Hasn't it already? Rick knows Lori & Shane slept together. He has to know it very well might be Shane's baby. The truth is out there. Rick has a lot to digest, and maybe just chooses to not dwell on the what-ifs at this point. What can he do? Leave his wife and Carl? Go after Shane even though he realizes why they got together? I don't see Rick has too many choices other than to try and make the best of the situation, which means keeping his family together and keeping the group safe.
  
  -Cheers
  November 28, 2011 at 4:23PM EST
- KarenX I think Rick and Shane both know that the baby is--at worst is very likely to be--Shane's, and that the two men know the other knows, and have made their peace with it. I think Rick told Shane on purpose as a means of controlling Shane, and I think that it would have worked out OK between the five people (Lori, Shane, Rick, Carl, Newbaby). I was actually annoyed when Lori made the point of telling the lie to Shane that it wasn't his (or at least starting the official denial process of the possibility). For all that she talked about Shane doing what's easy instead of what's right, she took the easy way out. It would have been a strange, tricky kind of family, but this is a new world. If Shane and Rick could have made a working partnership (balancing ruthlessness and hope), it would have been best for everyone in the group and whatever new kind of life they think they can build. Now, nope. Not happening. It's a repeat of It Must Be My Husband's Baby from the old days and it puts Shane and Rick at odds around an unnecessary lie and Secret That Everyone Knows.
  November 28, 2011 at 8:21PM EST
- The Cheat @KarenX--Huh, interesting thought. I believe female chimps get frisky with all the male chimps before they give birth. That way, all the boys behave themselves and don't kill off the newborn, as they all think it might be their baby chimp. In ZA, the same strategy might work for Lori! (Obviously, not intentionally since Lori thought Rick was dead. But you have to play the hand you are dealt.)
  December 1, 2011 at 3:09PM EST
- neil I could be totally wrong, but I interpreted Lori's denial to Shane not as "Rick is the biological father" but as Lori emphatically saying "even if the baby is biologically Shane's, i have made my choice and Rick is the father." In that regard, she was sending Shane a message about her decision, not lying to him. And i also thought Shane got it too, adding into his continuing emotional spiral over the last couple of episodes.
  December 1, 2011 at 5:39PM EST
Kate

I was wondering why they didn't highlight which one was Herschel's wife and stepson. But I think it says something about Rick that in the face of Sophia's emergence, he didn't freeze like everyone else, including Shane, he did what had to be done. Now let's hope he stops whining when the show returns. I think the thing with Daryl and Sophia's mom is a maternal thing, not a hook-up. The women on this show need to be written better.
November 28, 2011 at 12:24AM EST Reply to Comment
- jason I think Rick will get a lot of blame for Sophia since he left her by herself in the creek. This will prolly weigh in on his ability to be a leader and because of his decision to leave her, I think he
  did the right thing by shooting sophia
  November 28, 2011 at 12:42AM EST
- Elevation I can completely see 6 episodes of annoying Rick "second guessing himself" monologues while Lori tries to convince him other wise starting in FEB.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:15AM EST
MK

I am sick of reading the negative comments about this show every single week. If you don't like the show, why do you keep watching it and commenting on it? This isn't Breaking Bad or Mad Men, so stop expecting it to be. I thought the mid-season finale was great, and I look forward to this show every single week. I accept and appreciate it for what this show is, an entertaining show about surviving in a zombie apocalypse. I loved the twist at the end with Sophia, it was a very satisfying end to that long plot line.
November 28, 2011 at 12:29AM EST Reply to Comment
- chuckie If you don't like reading the negative comments, and you know the comments here are going to be negative, why are you here?
  November 28, 2011 at 12:39AM EST
- VisionOn Well it's Alan's job, so should he stop criticizing the show too?
  November 28, 2011 at 1:04AM EST
- anon.z.moose It's kind of like the Gresham's law of news: bad drives out the good. I think everyone has a basic enjoyment of the show or the genre but few people are totally satisfied. So even if some people seem over-the-top in their criticism it's still enjoyable to see those responses. I think people come here to see what Alan has to say and then quite naturally it's the criticisms that come to the fore. Overall people here seem to be more responsible and responsive than elsewhere.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:15AM EST
- chuchundra I'm torn between the fantasy of having a decent show about zombies on television and the reality that the show we're actually getting mostly sucks eggs.
  
  I'm not sure how motivated I'll be to watch the show when it comes back in February. I'm still curious about what's going to happen and there's some faint hope that the show might get better, but there's not a huge pull for me there.
  
  Truthfully, if my wife weren't interested in watching the show, I'd probably have dropped it already. So feel free to blame her for all of my negative waves.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:55AM EST
Quinn

I know there have been issues with this season, but i really did find that last scene incredible. I agree that Shane was right and the Walkers in the barn needed to be killed, but in watching walk out one by one to be shot, I didn't feel how I normaly feel when a walker is killed. I wouldn't call it sympathy, but I definitely didn't feel like killing them that way was a victory for the good guys. And I don;t know how you kill a dozen walkers in a more humane way, but for the first time I questioned killing them, and that was before Sophia came out.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but Glen's line, that he forgot they were dangerous, landed with me. I forget that they were once people, and yes, if it's us or them, then definitely it's gotta be them, but shooting all these things that look so much like people has got to be traumatic for the survivors.
November 28, 2011 at 12:30AM EST Reply to Comment
- VisionOn Your comment shows how far Dead has fallen since the pilot.
  
  If you remember in the pilot, killing the zombies was a big deal. That's what made Lennie James' scene with the sniper rifle and his wife so powerful and Rick's execution of the woman in the park so poignant. The dialog was actually good back then too.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:07AM EST
- Quinn It's funny you mention that, because i was thinking about how I felt during the pilot and I couldn't understand why Morgan wouldn't klill his wife. Obviously, this is all fantasy, but to me, if I saw a family memeber as a walker, my instinct is that I would want to put them out of their misery. Maybe I'm contradicting myself, but killing a walker who used to be someone I knew seems like it would be easier; like I would know this isn't my friend/family member.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:18AM EST
- Lifer Knifer I'm on board with Quinn's POV.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:53PM EST
- Dave I Interesting post. I felt the same. I did not feel sympathy for the Walkers. I felt terrible for Herschel and his family seeing these people that used to be their family gunned down in such dramatic fashion. I felt for Glen knowing they were dangerous but having to shoot his girlfriend(?)'s walking-dead family. I think that helped re-humanize the zombies.
  
  In fact, I'd argue against Visionon's point and go so far as to say that it show how far the show has grown. It shows the characters, generally speaking, have become callous yet gives this moment where the zombies' existence and deaths have meaning. Of course it would not still be a big deal to kill the zombies. They've been through a lot and you get numb to it. However, this serves as a reminder that these were once people and that their deaths were the end of hope for Herschel and his clan that their loved ones might be cured.
  
  That is part of why I thought it was such a powerful episode, and season, even with its obvious issues.
  
  -Cheers
  November 28, 2011 at 4:30PM EST
Brendan Noel

Don't think I disagree with anything you said, Alan. I've been saying for weeks now to my friends that watch the show that TWD doesn't work unless the characters are forced to stare into the eye of a danger that doesn't blink. We need a return to conflict, by which I don't mean the soap opera conflicts we've been getting of late, i.e. pretty much the entire relationship between Rick and Lori.

They're too comfortable at the farm right now, so I'm hoping that when the show comes back we will have gotten to the point that our heroes and Hershel's group are forced to go their separate ways, thus forcing the primary characters (and why not, Maggie too if they can find a way to work her in) back into the wilderness to confront actual danger.
November 28, 2011 at 12:31AM EST Reply to Comment
- JB Totally agreed. They need to get off the farm. As Alan said, a "peacetime" Walking Dead just does not work. It'll be interesting to see what sort of conflict the writers dream up to get them off the farm, because right now, it's so idyllic that I can't see them wanting to leave. And frankly, Rick/Shane's crew outnumbers Hershel's. So logically speaking, why don't they just "take over" the farm?
  November 28, 2011 at 11:00AM EST
- Dave I I think they'll leave. How can they still peacefully co-exist with Herschel? As for just taking over? Shane might be on board. At this point, I do not think Rick is at the point where he'd forcibly take over somebody else's farm. Although with his pregnant wife, son, and a baby on the way who knows?
  
  -Cheers
  November 28, 2011 at 4:32PM EST
- KarenX It cracked me up when Herschel just asked Rick why they didn't go set themselves up on a farm next door. I've been asking myself that for awhile. I seriously don't think that Herschel would have antagonized them as neighbors, and might have been friendly, and it would have made a nice core to build a community around.
  
  But now Rick's people went and shot his walkers and there's probably no being neighborly after that. Oh, well. I was sorry that I didn't get to see how one puts neck-looped walkers into a barn full of free-roaming walkers without any of the free-roamers coming out.
  November 28, 2011 at 8:25PM EST
Jess

This season is a snoozefest. This entire season so far was spent searching for Sophia & she's there all along? Sweet Shane meltdown though.
November 28, 2011 at 12:45AM EST Reply to Comment
James

If Otis was wrangling the walkers, then why was he so comfortable with killing them when he and Shane went to the school?
November 28, 2011 at 12:54AM EST Reply to Comment
- morganl4 Probably because that was a life-or-death situation, where they were clearly outnumbered, and the zombies were clearly trying to attack them? (Rather than a one-on-one situation with wrangling one walker at a time.) Seems like the two situations were totally different.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:42AM EST
- Elevation or he was just putting up with Herschel's misplaced pro-zombie life mandate so he and the wife could stay at the farm.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:17AM EST
- Col Bat Guano So collecting them in large enough numbers so they could represent a danger is a good idea? Walkers are either dangerous or they aren't. The number is irrelevant.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:23AM EST
- Huell Goodman "The death of one zombie is a tragedy, the death of a horde of zombies is a statistic."
  - Hershel Walker
  November 28, 2011 at 8:26AM EST
JamesG

I thought this was easily the best episode of the season, and probably the best since the pilot. Excellent final scene aside, I genuinely appreciated the moral ambiguity that the different characters discussed. There were the scenes with Maggie/Glen, Herschel/Rick, and Dale/Shane where each shared their view on morality in the "new world" and all of them made fairly convincing points.

I think we, as the viewers, take too simplistic a view when we think about how people would really behave in a world like this. We tend to think all the characters should drop any semblance of their previous lives and morph into individuals in perpetual survival mode. I think we forget how difficult it would be to do something like that if this were real. We have seen, in times of crisis, that people tend to cling more strongly to what they had before rather than completely reinvent themselves. We sometimes forget the extreme emotions and mental trauma associated with losing all loved ones and having an entire worldview rewritten in short order. Everyone is affected by these types of things differently, and I felt, for the first time, that pretty much everyone who debated the post-apocalyptic order made a good case. In that regard, I'm tired of the nitpicking about how the characters do "stupid" things and don't act "realistically." That, in fact, is probably the most realistic part of this show.

TWD definitely has some room for improvement, but this was a positive step in the right direction. I know it's still the popular thing among the "too cool for school" crowd to bash this show endlessly, but I have thoroughly enjoyed this season and think it succeeds for what it is trying to be. I, for one, am definitely on board in February and look forward to seeing what this dystopic world has to offer.

November 28, 2011 at 12:58AM EST Reply to Comment
- Col Bat Guano "We tend to think all the characters should drop any semblance of their previous lives and morph into individuals in perpetual survival mode."
  
  But that is in fact what the majority of people do when faced with life or death situations. They may not descend into moral bankruptcy, but the survival instinct is pretty strong in folks and serves a valuable purpose. Why are these people spending time debating the morals of destroying walkers and whether they should carry guns around the farm rather than scavenging the local area for valuable supplies? And isn't there another farm nearby they could move into to secure to continue their search?
  November 28, 2011 at 2:50AM EST
- consideract @Col Bat - Hershel tried to tell Maggie they could go live on a different farm, and Maggie told him that all the farms around had been burnt or overrun by walkers.
  November 28, 2011 at 9:48AM EST
- Col Bat Guano That is ridiculous though. Only their farm has been spared? Once again logic is sacrificed for plot purposes. How "overrun" could a farm be? And if there are enough walkers that they take over every unburnt farm, why are there none near Herschel's?
  November 28, 2011 at 11:49AM EST
- consideract @Col Bat - I agree it seems weak. They do throw a bone with the whole idea of swamp land as a kind of moat ( walkers getting trapped in the swamp). But it does feel more like that's an idea thrown in there to *cover* that issue, rather than something fully thought out. I do keep getting the feeling that the writers see an issue and rather than embracing it, and mining it for drama, even at a slower pace (slow paces can be excruciatingly dramatic), they cover it, with a line or some other contrivance. That is a difficult place to be as a writer, because then you have the answers to the questions, but so? Then, you win the argument, but lose the drama.
  November 28, 2011 at 12:11PM EST
- joel "They do throw a bone with the whole idea of swamp land as a kind of moat ( walkers getting trapped in the swamp)." But even that has consistent logic to it. If the walkers are "trapped" in the swamp, then why is it so easy for Rick, Herschel, and presumably Otis to capture and move them? If its really that easy to get them out of the water, why wouldn't the walkers eventually be able to do this themselves?
  
  The fact that there's no real reason why the farm hasn't been overrun by a herd by now seems awfully convenient. After the incident at the camp early in the show, it should be obvious to Rick and everyone else that wandering walkers are a constant threat.
  
  But even if you're willing to buy into all of this, nothing explains the completely unbelievable moment where Dale decides to hide the guns in the swamp. That was the worst character moment in a series of bad character moments.
  November 28, 2011 at 3:06PM EST
Steve the Armadillo

I don't think Shane opened the Barn door out of spite, he did it because the walkers were a ridiculously unnecessary danger to keep around and they needed to go. It was dramatic but it got the job done. And nobody else stopped him, I reckon, because everybody who isn't Rick and Hershel knew that those walkers had to be eliminated.

Now I don't want to come off as too pro-Shane, but I have to defend him one more time, because Dale hiding ALL THE GUNS is possibly the most stupid decision by any character throughout the course of the series thus far. What is he possibly thinking?

November 28, 2011 at 1:06AM EST Reply to Comment
- Elevation I have no idea why Dale did that. If I were a character on the show, I would take whatever anger I had about Shane and direct it 10 fold towards Dale for hiding all the guns during a zombie invasion.
  
  Are we actually supposed to like Dale? He is annoying and creepy as hell with Andrea, and a total moron with Shane. Real likable.
  November 28, 2011 at 1:03PM EST
- consideract The issue isn 't about whether or not the walkers have to go, but about who gets to say so. Whose property is it? You don't like I have walkers in my barn? Feel free to keep moving right along. There are some nearby farms that could use your exterminating skills. The conflict is more about respecting Hershel, or not, and the land as Hershel's land, or not. Do they just take it from him because it is a good situation, and they are stronger than him and have (more) guns?
  November 28, 2011 at 1:06PM EST
- consideract That comment belongs somewhere else. I tell you, Hitfix entry forms, we are going to have some words about what you are doing to my posts!
  November 28, 2011 at 1:09PM EST
- consideract or my brain...
  November 28, 2011 at 1:16PM EST
Greg C

Man, Herschel has some explaining to do.I wouldn't want to be in his shoes when Daryl, Shane or even Rick start to ask some hard questions
November 28, 2011 at 1:12AM EST Reply to Comment
- JB I'm in the camp that believes that Hershel (as well as Maggie) knew that Sophia was in the barn. A few eps. ago, Maggie and Hershel shared a "knowing glance" back when Darryl & co. were talking about the hunt for Sophia. When someone asked what would they do if she was already "zombified", Maggie and Hershel looked at each other in acknowledgement. Before last night, I thought it was because of the walkers in the barn, and because they themselves couldn't bring themselves to kill their friend/loved one walkers. But now I think it's also because they knew Sophia was among the folks in the barn.
  November 28, 2011 at 11:07AM EST
bbq_hax0r

In my opinion the best episode yet and makes sure I'll stay until February. People acting like survivors having conversations long overdue and overall pretty exciting. My only thing is I can't buy Shane as the "bad guy." Rick seems to be living by rules that no longer exist, maybe this was the wake up call he needed, but I agree with Shane.

It was also nice to see Rick finally "own up" as the leader of the group and put down the little girl at the end.

In an ironic twist, Herschel was letting them stay until they found the girl and if he knew she was in the barn, well then wasn't he letting them stay ad infinitum or until they discovered the barn.

Good ending to a ok season. I'm excited for the second half.
November 28, 2011 at 1:15AM EST Reply to Comment
- Herschel didn't know, Otis did, but he died. This was confirmed on The Talking Dead
  November 28, 2011 at 1:35AM EST
- consideract But he should have known. Otherwise he is just a writer's puppet, and *that* is the real problem.
  November 28, 2011 at 2:18AM EST

Next 309 Comments

News From Our Partners

Follow HitFix:

Follow @HitFix

Get Instant Alerts on What's Alan Watching

Latest Posts

HitFix First Look: 'Hannibal' is worried about Will Graham

Will's gift takes an increasing toll; can the bad Dr. Lecter help him?

Tuesday, May 21, 2013
Series finale review: 'The Big C: Hereafter'

Cathy and her family prepare for the end as the Showtime dramedy concludes on a strong note

Tuesday, May 21, 2013
Season finale review: 'Rectify' - 'Jacob's Ladder'

Daniel ponders a trip out of town as the terrific first season comes to a close

Monday, May 20, 2013
Review: FOX's 'The Goodwin Games' has potential it won't get to realize

Some interesting pieces in a new sitcom from the 'HIMYM' guys, but it's a dead show walking

Monday, May 20, 2013

Cannes Film Festival 2013

Inside Television with Alan Sepinwall

Review: 'The Walking Dead' - 'Pretty Much Dead Already': Opening the barn door

Are you a fan of The Walking Dead?

Sign up to get the latest updates instantly.

Never miss a post - sign up now to get an e-mail alert whenever The Walking Dead is updated

Send to your friends

Direct link: http://tinyurl.com/7yvx7g2

'The Walking Dead' - 'Pretty Much Dead Already': Opening the barn door

Share this Post on ...

Direct link: http://tinyurl.com/7yvx7g2

'The Walking Dead' - 'Pretty Much Dead Already': Opening the barn door

Comments

Option 1

Option 2

Option 3

Alex T. This episode was definitely an improvement on other episodes...but there's still a long way to go for WD to go to the level of greatness of what it should be.

sepinwall I just had to delete a bunch of comments that violated rule #1 on the blog: TALK ABOUT THE SHOW, NOT EACH OTHER.

Ben I suppose there was no way for Herschel to know that the girl walker was Sophia? Although it would be a crazy coincidence for them to find a girl walker around the same time that the group arrived.

Jeremy Sollie That's what I thought as well. He had no idea what she looked like so he probably didn't think about it.

Glenn saw in the barn and Shane was glued to the hole in the door. Walkers dont hide in the corner for dramatic effect.

jason Herschel probably didn't know Sophia was inside the barn since he did say otis had been puting walkers in the barn.

C It's now confirmed that Herschel did NOT know about Sophia. In the next episode preview, he stated that Otis put the walkers in the barn.

Miles C, please read the rules. That's why your comment will be deleted.

David To miles, technically it isn't a spoiler that he says Otis put them in the barn. He said it in THIS episode when they were capturing the two walkers in the swamp. But to the other point, I doubt Otis would throw walkers in there and not mention anything about it at supper

eric_balsam Walking dead is such a simple concept, that even after a few sucky episodes, a few good one can restore the series. Its a zombie apocalypse, and thats what people want to see. Show zombies die, viewers are happy

J Yes, as long as they are idiots watching for violence and gore. But that isn't the comic, and it isn't what the show wants to be either.I felt the final scene justified the buildup of the previous several episodes quite effectively.

I think her 'unwalkerish' nature was to show you that her group acknowledged her change but might have seen her in a different light. A more human light. A light similar to the way Hershel saw all those in the barn.

Jeremy Sollie If this is the case I don't feel it was done that well.

It wasnt. Dont let 30 seconds of a flat out horrible 10m stretch make you forgot how poorly the rest of the ending was handled. They couldnt find a better way to cripple Rick than to have no one take his pole?

keith I don't mind nobody stopping Shane because most of them were secretly agreeing with him.

James I agree. By the end when Shane had given everyone their guns they were ready to rock n roll. Except maybe Glen, he was a little hesitant until Maggie gave him the ok.

Dan Yeah, totally agree re: no one stopping Shane. It wasn't contrived... they all agreed with him. Plus, maybe they were a bit scared of him by that point. I know I would've been.

chris_mcdevitt I think that Otis was the one who put Sofia in the barn. Hershel mentioned at the 'mire' that Otis used to do the wrangling into the barn. Since Otis got waxed Hershel and Co. might not have known about the presence of the girl.

C 100% correctamundo.

consideract Except he should have known, and the man that Hershel is as a character would have known. I think it's clear he didn't know, and for that I blame the writers loving too much their idea of using Otis as a clever dodge.

Maggie Or a mother/son moment. He already told her he never had anyone care about him. I never thought romantic.

Col Bat Guano More annoying than Lori? Is that even possible? I thought she was the gold standard of bad TV characters.

Huell Goodman "...she changes her mind more often than she breathes."Sounds like a realistic female character to me. ;) Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Blake Col: Andrea is more annoying than Lori. If there's an Emmy for most annoying female characters, this show could sweep the nominations.

GarySF The irony is the actress who plays Andrea was so awesome on The Shield, and while I haven't yet read Alan's 3 yr anniversary homage to that series' finale, she was a vital part of it. So in some cases at least, we know the fault lies with the writers, not the actors.

James I thought Betty Draper was the gold standard for bad TV characters.

Colm Wasn't this the last of the Darabont involvement episodes?

viv The zombie would have gone after the closest thing. Which would have been Rick or anyone else in the group, including Carl.

So Rick couldn't have sic'd the walker on him? It would have freed him up and either stopped Shane or forced someone else to take/kill it. Theyre dangerous remember? He had something worse than a pitbull raging to get out of that loop and it was aimed only at Shane.

alynch Using a zombie as a weapon would be the dumbest thing anyone has ever done on this show, and that's saying something.

Daniel Cory, you are being a bit redickulous...

FINSBURY While Shane's behavior (opening the barn) was extreme, it was completely rational.

LindyK I think Dale will be knocked off.

Elevation Yeah I'm a little none of the annoying characters of consequence became a zombie. Dale, Carol, Carl, etc. would all look great as walkers right about now.

Col Bat Guano I can see your charitable explanation, but how was there going to be any sort of successful negotiation with Herschel? There is no middle ground between kill them all and let them live. The final outcome was the only one that could occur.

consideract I wish we could delete accidentally duplicated posts! Can "someone" with power delete it?

Boulderkid, he was hiding the guns because the narrative required him to do so in order for Shane to arrive at the barn at the exact moment Rick had a tethered walker/bag of kryptonite. It was easily the episodes most blatant *twist* that served only to move item B into character A's hands

Kujo I really dumb scene that really didn't make any sense. Just flat out bad writing.

Matt I watch the show, but don't necessarily enjoy it. I enjoy the whole zombie apocalypse concept. However, I don't know if it's the acting, direction or writing, but there is at least one part in every episode where I can't help but laugh. And I know it's not a scene I should be laughing at.

Lee I found the zombie-wrangling to be pretty comical, both in concept and execution. Was I hearing things or did Herschel compare it to herding cats?

memem I keep wondering why Sophia wasn't eaten by the zombies when she got bit .

C That's assuming she actually was bitten. She could have died from any number of reasons: eaten something poisonous, snakebite, a fall - anything.

armofatlas If she had died naturally, she would have stayed dead. There was an obvious bite on her left neck/shoulder. We keep seeing zombies pop out of places. One probably got her by surprise and she managed to get away. Just to die later and walk again.

jason If humans don't have to be bitten by walkers to turn into one then why didn't daryl turn into a walker after his arrow pierced his side

Brian Jason, because he didn't die.

Joseph It seems like this has to be explained every time someone dies on the show - the walkers only eat live meat. Once the person dies they are no longer interested. If a walker completely ate every person they killed, there would be no new walkers. Also, what ARMOFATLAS said.

Le Sigh, spoilers from the comics... A better twist would have been Rick revealing what was told to him by the guy at the CDC. See above lol

memem Why wasn't Sophia eaten by the walkers when she got bit

C You don't have to be bitten to turn into a walker. You just have to be dead.

C Good point, but I seriously doubt Kirkman would allow them to stray so far from that concept.

Brian C, That's a concept that didn't develop for a (fairly) long time.

rcade One of the rules here is to not reveal events from the comic that occur after what we're seeing on the show. Please reread the four rules in Alan's post.

James I read an interview with one of the producers last night (Hollywood Reporter I think), and he said the reveal about what the CDC guy said is coming sooner rather than later.

viv Rick and Shane have a big problem because the truth still isn't out. And because they've got very different leadership styles. I don't see the group throwing Shane out, because he was right. If he'd done nothing, they'd still go out looking for Sophia and risking their lives.

viv Shane as a leader would look out for a very small core group. The others like Glenn and Dale would be cut lose as he thought needed. Rick tries to save everyone, but the problem with that strategy is that he'd probably get many of them killed.

consideract I am much more interested in Daryl, who is no slouch in the walker shooting department. The problem with Shane is his disrespect of his fellow humans, not his walker killing skills.

Elevation Yeah I was also a member of Team Shane. Killing the pack of zombies that were being held together only by a dilapidated barn 50 yards from the camp was the only solution. Everyone else is too white bread.

SusanG I completely agree. I was waiting for the heart-wrenching recognition of Herschel seeing his wife and stepson get shot, but nothing. I really hope there's faster character development in February. Right now, it seems like everyone except Glen is really static.

eddie willers I'm not sure just what Herschel's thoughts were during the onslaught. It could be that Shane's proof they really weren't alive after multiple shootings of lungs and hearts convinced him after all and it might have been a moment like Alec Guinness in "The Bridge on the River Kwai".

zorra I had the same thought. When the camera went back in the barn and we realized there was still a walker inside, I thought it would be Hershel's wife -- until the camera focused on Sophia's shoes.

Never miss a post - sign up now to get an e-mail alert whenever
The Walking Dead is updated

Alex T.

This episode was definitely an improvement on other episodes...but there's still a long way to go for WD to go to the level of greatness of what it should be.

Ben

I suppose there was no way for Herschel to know that the girl walker was Sophia? Although it would be a crazy coincidence for them to find a girl walker around the same time that the group arrived.

eric_balsam

Walking dead is such a simple concept, that even after a few sucky episodes, a few good one can restore the series. Its a zombie apocalypse, and thats what people want to see. Show zombies die, viewers are happy

J Yes, as long as they are idiots watching for violence and gore. But that isn't the comic, and it isn't what the show wants to be either.

I felt the final scene justified the buildup of the previous several episodes quite effectively.

chris_mcdevitt

I think that Otis was the one who put Sofia in the barn. Hershel mentioned at the 'mire' that Otis used to do the wrangling into the barn. Since Otis got waxed Hershel and Co. might not have known about the presence of the girl.

Huell Goodman "...she changes her mind more often than she breathes."

Sounds like a realistic female character to me. ;)

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Blake Col: Andrea is more annoying than Lori.

If there's an Emmy for most annoying female characters, this show could sweep the nominations.

Boulderkid, he was hiding the guns because the narrative required him to do so in order for Shane to arrive at the barn at the exact moment Rick had a tethered walker/bag of kryptonite. It was easily the episodes most blatant twist that served only to move item B into character A's hands

Matt

I watch the show, but don't necessarily enjoy it. I enjoy the whole zombie apocalypse concept. However, I don't know if it's the acting, direction or writing, but there is at least one part in every episode where I can't help but laugh. And I know it's not a scene I should be laughing at.

memem

I keep wondering why Sophia wasn't eaten by the zombies when she got bit .

Joseph It seems like this has to be explained every time someone dies on the show - the walkers only eat live meat. Once the person dies they are no longer interested. If a walker completely ate every person they killed, there would be no new walkers.
Also, what ARMOFATLAS said.

memem

Why wasn't Sophia eaten by the walkers when she got bit

Elevation Yeah I was also a member of Team Shane. Killing the pack of zombies that were being held together only by a dilapidated barn 50 yards from the camp was the only solution.

Everyone else is too white bread.

eddie willers I'm not sure just what Herschel's thoughts were during the onslaught.

It could be that Shane's proof they really weren't alive after multiple shootings of lungs and hearts convinced him after all and it might have been a moment like Alec Guinness in "The Bridge on the River Kwai".