Cannes Film Festival 2013

The Peter Bishop principle: Checking in on 'Fringe' season 4

Has the new status quo been worth the trouble to introduce and explain it?

<p>Anna Torv on "Fringe."</p>

Anna Torv on "Fringe."

Credit: NBC

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We're at the start of that awkward post-premiere, pre-sweeps period of the TV season where networks start sprinkling in repeats(*), which means there's no new "Fringe" tonight. But that gives me an excuse to offer some overall thoughts on the first four episodes and how I'm feeling about the season to date, coming up just as soon as I get all my ideas from watching "The Matrix" fight scenes...

(*) Basic TV scheduling math: there are about 39 weeks in the broadcast network TV season, and most network shows only produce 22 episodes (24 at most). On top of that, you usually need to set aside at least four of those episodes for the start of the season to get people into the habit of watching (or watching again), and another four each for the sweeps months of November, February, and May. (Though sometimes shows only air 3 new episodes in May.) So that leaves 8 or 9 episodes to spread over October, January, March and April, which is why there are either a lot of repeats in those months or else shows temporarily go off the air for a mid-season fill-in. Most of this involves an outmoded system that the networks would love to get rid of but can't, because their local affiliates still depend on the sweeps periods to set their ad rates.

Okay, so Peter's back and remembers everything, but has arrived in a world where he drowned in the lake as a kid. That's an interesting starting point for the next phase of the season, and one that I frankly wish we had gotten to a few episodes sooner.

There have been some good episodes in this batch - I particularly liked the second one, with John Pyper-Ferguson trying to help his serial killer counterpart from the alt-universe - but overall I haven't loved the whole Peter-less universe idea. It's not so much that I miss Peter - I like Joshua Jackson a lot, but of the three leads, he's the one the show has had the most trouble using over the years - as that I feel the new status quo has required far too much effort without enough payoff.

The changes between the old reality and this one are both subtle and myriad, which means the show has had to frequently pause its storytelling to explain why a character or situation is slightly different from how we remembered them last season, and a lot of those explanations have felt shoehorned in, especially since the end results are still largely the same. Walter's more fearful and guilt-ridden, and Olivia's more assertive, but they're largely unchanged from the versions we know. Peter's absence from their lives hasn't made them different enough to make four episodes without him, and with constant anvils being dropped into the dialogue about how hard it is to be without the most important person in your life, worth all the bother.

I'm not saying that I wanted to come back to the new season with all the regular characters so transformed that it would be like getting a third parallel dimension. (Maybe in that one, Olivia could have an eyepatch and Walter a mustache!) We've already been there, done that, and it would have felt lazy and like a step back - like Pinkner and Wyman had discovered this one trick that worked and were going to keep doing variations of it over and over until everyone got bored. But at the same time, I don't think these episodes have given me quite the sense of what Peter means to these characters as I think was intended. His absence has allowed us to focus on other relationships - like last week's take on how Olivia and Walter both feel about the cortexiphan trials all these years later - but I think those kinds of stories could have been told even if Peter still existed. (It wouldn't be hard to contrive an excuse for Peter to stay in the lab for an episode while Olivia and Walter are in the field.)

We'll see how things work now that Peter is back - and as the Observers try once again to remove him from the timestream for their own mysterious reasons - and in hindsight it may turn out that there was more value to this extended prologue than I found at the time. At the moment, though, I'm concerned. The first half of last season was terrific, and seemed like "Fringe" had finally taken The Leap. But the second half wasn't nearly as tight, and I didn't like the finale, and have now had major issues with the start of this season. There's still plenty of time in this season to right the ship creatively, but I do begin to wonder whether the Olivia/Fauxlivia storyline wasn't so much a show taking The Leap as surging to a brief creative peak before settling back down at its previous, interesting but uneven earlier level.

There'll be a new episode next week - which Ryan McGee will once again be reviewing for us, as he's been doing so well for a while - and I'll try to check back in a bit deeper into the season, maybe after the November sweeps episodes are done.

In the meantime, how's everyone else feeling about the season to date? Have you been happier with the slightly new universe, or would you have rather Peter turned up much earlier? Or not disappeared at all? Have at it.

Alan-sepinwall-sm
Alan Sepinwall
Sr. Editor, What's Alan Watching
Alan Sepinwall has been reviewing television since the mid-'90s, first for Tony Soprano's hometown paper, The Star-Ledger, and now for HitFix. His new book, "The Revolution Was Televised," about the last 15 years of TV drama, is for sale at Amazon. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

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  • Default-avatar

    evolution1085

    I think the impact of the Peter-less world gave John Noble some great material to work with. We love our eccentric Walter, but losing Peter removed any joy he had in the life we saw from him. Playing a brilliant, but irrevocably broken man has been another great vein to mine.

    Torv, on the other hand, feels like she rebooted to season 1 Olivia, which I guess could have been their point. Any kind of personal growth she had over the last 3 years was essentially wiped away without Peter drawing her out of the shell she went into when she lost Mark Valley's character (blanking on his name). Hopefully the "we don't remember peter" doesn't drag beyond an episode or two, for a show in its most likely final year, it needs to start putting the pedal to the metal a bit.

    October 21, 2011 at 9:59AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Chrissy I think the worth of these episodes (and I do feel they've been worth it) is to see the difference in Walter. He is clearly a different, harsher person (although still decent at the core), and I feel that has been well-established and emotionally resonant.

      The difference in Olivia is subtler, but I think that is reasonable. She has experienced two major differences; her stepfather continued to abuse her and she eventually killed him, and she never fell in love with Peter. One is very far in the past, and one is very recent (in terms of our Olivia) so one has been incorporated into her personality and the other only changes her from very recent Olivia. So I'm fine with the portrayal.

      The question is whether the shows are entertaining. I'd say two were quite good, and the other two were pretty good, so we're off to a good start as far as I'm concerned.

      October 21, 2011 at 1:53PM EST
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    keith

    Quite boring so far. Fringe always had a few good episodes but the arc stuff was far too bolted-on, especially since they keep resetting (Eastbound & Down was in Mexico for a year! Is actual development really so hard?). Ultimately I just don't care enough about any of the characters.

    October 21, 2011 at 10:01AM EST Reply to Comment
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      LROYJ I think the characters are the strongest part of Fringe by far. Sometimes the stories work for me, but when they don't (and they often don't) the characters are all that make me want to watch.

      October 21, 2011 at 1:07PM EST
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      keith I didn't even notice they were significantly different without Peter. I've watched every episode. That's how much I care. Maybe it's just me...

      October 23, 2011 at 7:14PM EST
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    AJ

    I haven't like the first few episodes, and I'm not sure I like the direction they appear to be going in with Peter back but no one remembering his existence.

    I simply don't like the idea that you spent three years with certain versions of characters and then the Season 3 finale happened and those version are gone? We are starting from scratch now? So all that character development and history get erased?

    And lets say that we eventually get back to normal somehow - that just means that the beginning of this season gets erased and doesn't count. Either way you spend time with characters who don't really exist (in the sense that either the time stream where Peter didn't die is the reality or the time stream where he dies and shows up in a lake is the new reality). To me, that's very frustrating.

    October 21, 2011 at 10:06AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Paul I agree with you 100% and have been saying the same thing since the start of this season. Also, we're four seasons in, can we get an in-depth Observers episode please. They're such an important role in the show apparently yet we dont know very key questions about them, Who are they really? Why are they doing what they do? How do they do it? Where or when do they come from?

      October 21, 2011 at 5:06PM EST
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    UGABugKiller

    I think maybe because I love this show so much, I don't see any of the issues you and Ryan do. I try, but I don't.

    It's kind of like how, maybe, Ryan loved Lost so much, he was willing to forgive some of worst parts of the show.

    It's weird, I love BSG far more than I do Fringe, yet I can be more critical of BSG (Black Market, anyone?).

    Fringe is a perfect show for me. It rewards you for paying attention, it asks you to think, but it asks you to think not about heavy political intrigue or religious overtones, it just requires you to be engaged in the story each week, and maybe that's enough for me.

    Unlike BSG or Lost, I don't sense Fringe has the "greater reason for everything" behind it, where we're supposed to hang on every word regarding the rogue Lord of Kobol who incited the mass exodus of the 13th Tribe or the life and times of Jacob and Smokey.

    Maybe all the small stuff that seems to bother you and Ryan doesn't bother me, because while it isn't as labyrinthine as BSG or Lost, it's still... "more" than most every other drama on TV, and it's funny for a sci-fi drama, with a great character performance by John Noble.

    I've had no problem with the new season, and can't wait to see where it takes me (without the obsessing I did over BSG, or McGee did over Lost), and that's kind of nice.

    October 21, 2011 at 10:08AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Rinaldo I agree with this. I think the direction of the show is working fine, the new situation did not last forever (just four episodes, and now we're in an intriguing new situation), and I'm very interested to see what happens next.

      If anything, I'm concerned about the situation with internet reaction to TV shows these days (and this isn't directed specifically at Alan -- I see it everywhere), where we take the temperature of a series constantly and fret and hover over things that haven't even happened -- "I'm not sure how I feel about" this and "what are they going to do from now on about" that.

      I guess I'm just old, and inclined to simply enjoy watching an unknown narrative play out, if it's working. And if I in fact don't like the way it's going, I can stop watching, as I did with "Weeds" cold turkey years ago. Or if I hate where all these unknowns ended up (as I did with "Lost"), I'll kvetch about them then, after I've seen it all. But as of now, the unexpected pleasures of "Fringe" are working for me.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:05AM EST
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      Fringe Barbie Rinaldo, I could not agree more. I hope the showrunners aren't reading internet reviews, because if they are they must be at the point of despair. What is wrong with audiences these days, that they must be instantly gratified with an answer to every story question raised? There is no patience, no willingness to go along for the ride, just an endless whine and foot stamp performance because either they want the story told their way, right now, or else, or they lack the ability to see that a narrative unfolds over time. I find the relentless negativity disheartening - one reason why I won't read Ryan McGee's commentary any more. Here's the inevitable fallout out from the MTV soundbite generation - swathes of viewers incapable of holding a couple of thoughts in their heads for longer than 30 seconds.

      October 24, 2011 at 4:40PM EST
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    Merve

    "Maybe in that one, Olivia could have an eyepatch and Walter a mustache!"

    If that's a reference to NTSF:SD:SUV::, specifically the episode where they parodied Fringe and its alternate universes, then you're my hero.

    At the risk of steering this conversation into a weird direction, this show certainly has a Peter problem. That being said, I'd be willing to overlook it if the writing were better this season, and it hasn't been. There's too much anvilicious or stilted dialogue, the cases haven't been very interesting (with the exception of episode 2), and the plotting has been shoddy (especially in episode 2). So, for me at least, the main problem this show has right now is weak writing, which makes the Peter problem all the more apparent. To be frank, if these episodes had been more enjoyable or better-written, I probably wouldn't be complaining about a Peter problem.

    October 21, 2011 at 10:18AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Harry_lime_talkback_profile

      odessasteps I assumed it was a reference to either your classic Trek Mirror Mirror gag or maybe even old school Dr Who episode Inferno (where the alternate Brigadier had an eyepatch and NO Moustache).

      October 21, 2011 at 12:27PM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall Just a more general reference to mirror universe stories, which inevitably involve eyepatches and/or facial hair to delineate the characters. With Fringe, they just gave Olivia bangs.

      October 21, 2011 at 12:33PM EST
  • Leslie_talkback_profile

    OldDarth

    Loving the season. Only the third episode was subpar. First was solid. Second was excellent. Fourth was very good.

    The show has done a solid job, a tad frustrating for long time fans to be sure, of juggling several agendas. The two main ones were showing how Peter's absence affected the rest of the cast and making the show viewer friendly for first time viewers.

    The second agenda grated with us long time fans as there was more than normal amount of hand holding being employed the show. For a handful of episodes that is tolerable and understandable. And the anvils have been over magnified, and in most cases, made of foam not metal.

    The shift back into normal mode was noticeable in the fourth episode. That was a powerhouse episode with Anna Torv and John Noble playing off each other beautifully. Could such an episode be done without having to banish Peter to non-existence? Sure. Could the payoff from such an episode be used in the same manner down the road after Peter's return? Absolutely not!

    It is an intriguing dichotomy that the common lament is about shows being cookie cuttered, assembly plant creations, and then see a show like Fringe taking risks and being, if not outright criticized, strongly questioned for doing so. The Peter storyline sets up so many interesting possibilties and yet most of the focus is on where the show came from and far too little on where it can go to.

    Said it before, saying it again. The Fringe showrunners are too good to lose the previous three seasons of history. And too savvy to have the events of the current season be 'Lost' when the timeline issue is resolved. Expect that to happen over the next block of 4 episodes.

    The setup has been... setup. Payoff time is coming.

    October 21, 2011 at 10:34AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall If they were really trying to make the show accessible to newcomers - which I don't think they were, given how much these early episodes depend on your knowledge of who everybody used to be - then that was a poor choice on the producers part. The show is at a stage where it's simply not going to take on new viewers. Serialized hardcore sci-fi shows in a low low-viewership timeslot in its fourth season don't suddenly build in audience, and I can't imagine even FOX has expected the show to increase in the move from Thursday to Friday. The goal has always been to retain as much of the pre-existing core as possible, and the ratings so far haven't been very good.

      Most of us are assuming this is going to be the final season, and I'd like to think Pinkner and Wyman realize this as well and are trying to do something really kick-ass for the longtime viewers rather than futilely chasing down newcomers who are never, ever going to watch the show at this late date.

      October 21, 2011 at 10:47AM EST
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      Amrit The only reason they dissappeared Peter was so that they would not have to payoff certain storylines they created in the first three seasons. Now they can pick and choose what mythology they want to explore. That is insulting to fans who sit and pay attention to everything that happens on a show and wait for a payoff, an example being Peter potentially finding out that he has a son...not gonna happen because dissappearing Peter dissappears a son they never wanted around in the first place. Peter's son was only there so that they could have the machine turned on in two universes....I just do not know what is left in the mythology and what is gone. That is extremely poor storytelling in my opinion, also what is poor is that they have done this before when Peter went back home at the end of season 2 and they never explored his character. He just suddenly decided to come back for a crappy reason, the only reason they sent him over was so that olivia would go over so they could tell the story of her over there...so Peter is a plot device, plot dropper, plot changer, plot letting me get rid of mythology because we cannot care to pay it off....I agree with you Alan, this is their final season...lets hope they can at least get it together to finish off some storylines.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:24AM EST
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      Beth I guess I'm the only person in the universe (this or others!) who actually just started watching Fringe. I watched the first episode and didn't like it but have heard lots of people talk about it so I watched the first three seasons this fall. Of course I had a different viewing experience watching all the episodes so close together but I really enjoyed the show. All this to say, I'm enjoying this season so far and as a new viewer I am looking forward to what comes.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:37AM EST
    • Leslie_talkback_profile

      OldDarth You'll have to take the decisions to try and entice new viewers up with the Fringe showrunners Alan. They clearly state in their pre-Season 4 airings interviews that was their intention. And those anvil moments were the result.

      I agree with you it was a futile ploy.

      Disagree with you on determining how to run a show based on the probability of it being your last season. No thanks.

      Seen other shows forced to operate in that mode and look where it led those.

      Showrunners should always tell the story they want to tell and let the chips fall where they may.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:40AM EST
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      Amrit If you are referring to Chuck, Lou...then yeah there are some downsides where you try and give fans what they want and stories or storylines can peter out (get it, lol). But at least that shows some sort of respect for fans, what has dissappearing Peter done for the show? expostion, heavy handed moments and created a new history that none of the fans are invested in because none of the fans have seen it. I would rather show runners have respect for their fans then to be oblivious, self centered and arrogant...especially if your show is going to be cancelled at any moment like Fringe is going to be at the end of this season.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:58AM EST
    • Leslie_talkback_profile

      OldDarth I mention no names. ;)

      As to the Peter thing we will have to agree to disagree. Fringe is charting a bold course and I am enjoying it.

      And it is too early to judge the Peter storyline. Let's compare notes after the next block of 4 episodes.

      October 21, 2011 at 12:09PM EST
    • Leslie_talkback_profile

      OldDarth Addendum to showrunners tailoring a show to give a satisfying final season:

      Only if they are given an final end date in advance.

      Otherwise operate on the assumption there is a next season.

      October 21, 2011 at 1:36PM EST
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      cortexifan OldDarth,
      agree with you. I said it before elsewhere and I'll say it here too.
      The writers have done an excellent job telling THEIR story.
      Complainers: can you write a better one?
      Fringe has rocked so far in S4 and I'm going to trust the writers until it ends (after S8 or so).
      So if you like this show then keep watching live, if you can. If you don't then watch something else. But I have to say, good luck finding something better.

      October 25, 2011 at 12:00PM EST
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    cinemaniax7

    Sometimes you just have to let art wash over you... :)

    October 21, 2011 at 11:42AM EST Reply to Comment
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    jcpdiesel21

    Except for the second episode, I haven't been enjoying this show as much as I did during previous seasons. However, I do like the fact that the writers were willing to take Peter out of the equation to explore how everyone else was effected, but think that the writing during these episodes could have been a little tighter. I reserve judgment on these episodes after seeing how the rest of the season plays out.

    October 21, 2011 at 12:09PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Thom

    For me the problem is that they have set up too many frustrating points without any foreseeable benefits, let me explain:

    - The episodes felt like a prologue, and not a very well written one, because the sell point was Peter's return and they simply dragged it as much as they could for no reason whatsoever and it showed in the writing.

    - I love and have missed Peter very much, and not because the writers have done a magnificent work with him. They haven't. Clearly they have never been interested in the character at all and it shows. Despite that, he still manages to be the fulcrum that keeps the other main characters with any semblance of humanity and likability. That is gone. I'm not saying Walter and Olivia are not interesting on their own, I just think they are more, when Peter is around, because Peter is the most human of them all. That might be the reason I found John Pyper-Ferguson the most interesting part about this season so far, both acting-wise and plot-wise. It's not that John Noble is not great, it's that his efforts are wasted on a character I don't care about. As for Anna Torv, she's has been hit and miss so far, but the season is still young.

    - The writers said they wouldn't betray the audience or the character of Peter. I'm still on the fence about the former, because a reset that tells you you wasted 3 years of your time is a betrayal, but maybe they'll return to the show I used to love soon. But I'm afraid they have betrayed the character of Peter. The anvils and metaphors about loneliness and indelible marks would have felt more authentic if they had actually shown it. However, what they did was show how everyone is better off without Peter, how they are closer and friendlier to each other and how much happier they are, except for one or two exceptions. I'm not sure they see the disconnect, but I do.

    - The writers have failed to show all these changes through the person, that would feel the impact the most: Peter. That ties in with my previous points about the disregard the writers have for Peter. For them it was more important to introduce a new male lead than to write for the one they already had. Honestly, I don't think that's a good thing.

    - The one thing that made this show special for me wasn't the parallel universes. They've diluted the conflict so much, that I don't care about the grudges these new versions of Olivias and Walters have. The truly special thing were the compelling relationships and they are gone. The charm and the warmth is gone. I don't know if Peter will manage to reestablish all those emotional connections, but I'm not sure I care either, after all they are just new alternate versions.

    October 21, 2011 at 12:17PM EST Reply to Comment
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    edgar

    Peter's disappearance felt like a strange direction to go in this season. I saw some potential in the idea of the two universes having to work together, but that hasn't been the focus at all. The disappearance storyline is distracting and doesn't seem particularly well thought out.

    October 21, 2011 at 1:01PM EST Reply to Comment
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    martisco

    Fringe is not Lost, and the overall mythology is not THE point. Fringe is a "and then what happened?" story, that happens to have a mythology behind it. I dread the show's eventual end, which will probably be untimely, but I strongly believe that the writers should keep swinging for the fences. It's an ongoing yarn, a science fiction epic, not a self-congratulatory, elaborate clever puzzlebox. I don't WANT things to be wrapped up. Ever. They've created the richest sci-fi universe I've seen on TV in a long time. That is what sets it apart from Lost (and also why Fringe's fans are not likely to howl with dismay however it ends).

    I find myself increasingly out of step with Hitfix's commentaries on Fringe, particularly Ryan's because I can tell that they have expectations of the mythology that won't be fulfilled.

    Also, you have to be pretty distrustful to think that the last three seasons "didn't happen." As viewers of the show, we are Observers and we, like they, have an omniscient view of all timelines which are happening simultaneously. Now, something strange has happened - Peter from our familiar timeline has broken through to a different one we've been living with for the past four episodes. I'm intrigued to see how the timelines clash in the form of these characters.

    I thought episode 1 was fine, episode 2 was among the best the series has ever produced, episode 3 was a disappointment, and episode 4 was fine. I'm glad the "setup" period is over with and yes, I think it could very well be worth it. I was very skeptical about the new season but I think it's going along nicely. I root for this show as hard as ever. Yes, we know that no one else is getting on board this ship in terms of audience size. So what. Shows like this never last long anyway, I for one am grateful we got a Season 4.

    October 21, 2011 at 1:02PM EST Reply to Comment
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      delong You are magical. Well-said, especially on the differences vs a show like Lost and what that will mean for the end.

      October 22, 2011 at 11:25AM EST
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      stevehbk Great comments. I agree. I like being an "Observer". I love this show and I'm glad it's still taking chances right up until the end. That's certainly something Lost never did. Obviously this is the last season and I'm sure there is something grand planned for the final few episodes. I'm expecting a satisfying ending, even if it isn't wrapped up in a nice red bow.

      October 24, 2011 at 12:30AM EST
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      webdiva Yes!! Thank you, Martisco. Fringe is NOT "Lost" -- and thank heavens for that! I despised Lost: it was too insular, too needlessly arcane, too self-congratulatory about its damned mythology and quirkiness. Feh! The 'mythology' in Fringe is incidental: we care about the characters and what happens to them, and we want to know what happens next. We're rooting for Peter to come back and set things right, to set Olivia right, and that will make us happy. Nuts to mythology!! And I, for one, hope this isn't the last season: I want to see Olivia and Peter make sense of it all -- and get an explanation from the Observers, who need to be called to account -- and see them be happy before things end. Sue me, but *that's* what I care about, not the damned 'mythology' crap.

      October 24, 2011 at 5:44AM EST
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    calcium

    Third episode wasn't very good, but did anyone else smile when Broyles asked if Walter had a plan to kill Gus yet?

    October 21, 2011 at 1:20PM EST Reply to Comment
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    DixieGirl

    I have to disagree - I think the change in the characters is pretty significant, and we've barely scratched the surface. I also think the pace has been just right - we needed to feel the loss of Peter to make his sacrifice in 3.22 and his return more meaningful.

    Fringe has always been bold in its storytelling, and that's what keeps it fresh. If I wanted a procedural that did the same thing every week, there are plenty of those to go around. Fringe's case of the week and overall mythology blend nicely, and this 'reset' doesn't make me feel cheated out of the first 3 seasons - it gives me another opportunity to see the things I loved about the relationships from those three seasons from a different perspective.

    October 21, 2011 at 1:31PM EST Reply to Comment
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      webdiva Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 5:46AM EST
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    Dayan Ballweg

    I think they missed a major opportunity with the fungus boy episode. I so clearly thought that episode was going to end with Walter having to take that boy over the bridge into the other universe to save his life - triggering issues and perhaps even dredging up "false memories" of the other Peter - as well as driving home that certain cycles will repeat themselves until the Universe corrects. It also would have given an emotional reason for him to finally leave the lab rather than just because he is afraid of going back to the hospital. However, these guys have surprised me in the past - and they will probably do so again. I think the fact that they haven't become a runaway success has given them room to experiment and monkey with it in unexpected ways. Let's wait and see what they do.

    October 21, 2011 at 2:06PM EST Reply to Comment
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    saintends

    The name of the first episode is "Neither Here Nor There" -- am I the only one out here thinking that we have been watching a third parallel earth?

    October 21, 2011 at 2:15PM EST Reply to Comment
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      webdiva Well, of *course* it's a third version -- how could it not be when the Observers removed Peter (for what they thought was permanently)?? But that's by the by. The other parallel universes, however many they may be, don't matter. The real question is why the Observers thought they had to 'correct' anything and why they think they have any right to do that. Peter keeps showing up like a rebuke to them, and a very satisfying rebuke at that: it's like the cosmos is giving the Observers a thump in the head and telling them to stop screwing with things and let them work out as they may. Interesting. :D

      October 24, 2011 at 5:51AM EST
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    Rogers Cadenhead

    I worked on an interactive TV project once with Jeff Pinkner and have been a huge fan of Fringe, but so far this season has been one alternative universe too many. I don't want to juggle three Peters. (Man that sentence is all kinds of wrong.)

    October 21, 2011 at 3:33PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Catherine

    I would have rather that Peter not have "ceased to exist"- at least those are my feelings right now. Since Peter is FINALLY back, I am holding out hope that my forebearance will be rewarded. Initially, though, the disappearing Bishop and the reset made my enthusiasm wane. Still, "Fringe" is the only must see show for me.

    October 21, 2011 at 3:55PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Clay

    Alan,

    I have to take issue with this overall review of "Fringe" so far... and your assertion that Ryan McGee is doing a fantastic job reviewing the episodes week to week.

    You've rephrased Ryan's first four reviews which essentially can be boiled down to one sentence, "I'm not sure how I feel about the Peter Problem." This and the aforementioned reviews read like one long half-assed lament on how the show has become boring.

    I didn't particularly expect and enjoy the Peter twist in the finale last season but it's hardly made for boring TV. I'd argue that the show has taken the so-called,"Leap," just in a direction that no one could anticipate.

    John Noble's performance is still amazing and Anna Torv is doing a better job playing "season 1" Olivia the second time around. "One Night in October," was a riveting bit of dramatic TV even with the anvil-dialogue. And as mentioned by others, the possibilities of where this story could go far outweigh any trepidation on my part.

    When you write things like, "There's still plenty of time in this season to right the ship creatively, but..." it sounds so lame. It makes you sound like you're hedging your bets and waiting to see if the show gets its "street cred," back.

    Maybe I've just grown tired of the constant "reassessment" of a TV show's value, but asking whether or not a story arc is "worth it" after 4 out of 22 episodes seems like overkill. I imagine that my opinion would probably change if I had to watch the amount of television you do on a daily basis, but I feel like in this case you're professional obligations may be getting in the way of actually reviewing what's happening on screen.






    October 21, 2011 at 4:23PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Sorry, "your professional obligations," not you're.

      October 21, 2011 at 4:32PM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall Or perhaps I just agree with Ryan and disagree with you.

      October 21, 2011 at 4:34PM EST
    • You're dismissiveness is palpable.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:53PM EST
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    Sir Ingenious

    So Fringe was renewed for Season 4 even though methinks that the ratings of season 4 and second half of season 3 are largely the same if I'm not mistaken. Correct me on this if I am though.

    Can anyone explain why Fringe was renewed for a fourth season if the ratings were poor? Was it because of its stable DVR ratings as Daniel Feinberg mentioned before? Or was Fringe was just plain lucky in having a FOX exec or two being an avid fan of this show?

    And as for season 4, am I the only one who feels like they should have done this in season 3 and have Peter STUCK in an alt universe for an extended amount of time to see if he's a good fit there vs here (and develop a relationship with Fauxlivia over there while having a baby, etc) while keeping all of the same characters around that we're familiar with? Well, instead of just this that feels like a waste of time?

    October 21, 2011 at 6:09PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Amrit In the olden days 100 episodes was the number required for syndication...that has changed recently to 88 episodes. Now with Fringe being renewed for a full season they will end perfectly on 88. The WB is the production company for Fringe as well as Chuck, both those series were renewed to get them to or past 88 episodes so that the WB can sell them off to other networks. The WB will not renew either of Fringe or Chuck again because they have to take losses to renew these shows to get them to the syndication numbers, once syndicated the WB will make their losses back but they will not continue to throw good money after bad, that is not good business at all. Fox probably paid a lot less this season for Fringe and the WB basically (probably) gave Chuck away for near to free to NBC for the final season. The WB can "influence" the networks because it is so huge, for example in certain latin markets the WB can refuse to sell the rights to the Dark Knight if they do not pay for Fringe or Chuck as well. The WB has tonnes of series and movies and can use it's power to influence markets and networks to take on shows just so they can make their money back. So although Chuck and Fringe may lose millions a year...when they are sold of as one package..then the WB makes all their money back and then some. The WB do this because they already most likely have people willing to pay for Chuck and Fringe (the syndication rights). Does this make any sense to you?

      October 23, 2011 at 6:58AM EST
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      Amrit I might add the same goes for community on NBC, after this season they will have most likely 71 episodes...Sony (the production company) will most likely low ball the show and take losses for the 4th season to get them at least 17 or more likely a full 22 episode season so that community can be sold off for syndication. That is why no matter their ratings tvbythenumbers.com will at worst have them as a toss up for renewal. Community will get their final season most likely and that is also as it turns out to be a perfect time to end the series, considering that after 4 years students normally get their degrees/diplomas. Sony also has Breaking Bad...I am not sure how they will syndicate that series...that will end on 60 episodes, but they have already sold it to netflix. The same with Mad Men, that show will go over the 88, but they have already made their money from Netflix.

      October 23, 2011 at 7:04AM EST
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      webdiva Yes, fine, the WB may indeed be doing just that, but I despise them for it. I don't like too many shows, but I like this one -- and I'd rather that Fringe continue to take things in new, interesting directions while letting Peter and Olivia get back on course and giving the Obsevers their comeuppance. And perhaps the cosmos can give the WB and TV execs in general a thump in the head, too, and their comeuppance as well. That I'd love to see.

      October 24, 2011 at 5:59AM EST
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      Amrit As a fan I can understand the sentiment but The WB is a business with shareholders that could be you or me. They have a duty to make sure hard working people who invest in their business get the most bang for their buck. So dumping shows that lose them money and in turn shareholders ( you and me)...then I applaud them. The same with NBC and any other business....a company should do that.

      October 24, 2011 at 12:25PM EST
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    NOTIMPORTANT

    "There's still plenty of time in this season to right the ship creatively"

    Their creativity to steer "the ship" doesn't need to be corrected...it works great for me, as one who doesn't need all things resolved after climbing just one hill. I prefer the slow pace that leads me to new possibilities, even if those new possibilities results in ways I wouldn't like.

    I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I'm glad I'm not the kind of person that it's bather with such a nonsensical predisposition for an outcome.

    I enjoy every single minute, for it's hard to find satisfying TV shows now a days.

    Anyways, thanks for your point of view.

    October 22, 2011 at 2:59AM EST Reply to Comment
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      NOTIMPORTANT I meant "bother"... sorry for my English, it's not my native language.

      October 22, 2011 at 3:04AM EST
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    Tausif Khan

    I don't miss Peter at all and would be fine watching Fringe in Peter-less dimension.

    Also they have other cast members that could do with story lines that fit into the story lines of Olivia, The Bishops, Bell and Nina Sharp. They could utilize Astrid and Broyles more. Now that they have Lincoln Lee in the first 'verse they could create another small group of people from which to draw stories. Why pay Jasika Nicole and Lance Riddick if you are not going to write them?

    October 23, 2011 at 2:36AM EST Reply to Comment
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    ed w

    To me Fringe is a show of mood and moments and this season so far has been doing things right, feeling more Fringey, than the second half of last season, so while I wasn't fond of the S3 finale and am ambivalent about the Peter-plot, this show has won me back by doing the little things right - by recapturing the atmosphere and mood that makes this such a pleasant escape. The pacing, lighting, atmosphere, even the way shots are composed, just feels more like the show than it has in a while and I appreciate that.

    October 23, 2011 at 7:46AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Wacoshade

    I've thought this season that both Olivia and Walter as characters are much different, not so much "largely unchanged" versions of what we have had.

    It's subtle, but Walter is much less wacked out. Still a little drug addled and eccentric, but maybe without the brain pieces missing? He's weird and all, but he's less like a brain damaged pre-adolescent and more just like a crazy old genius. And Olivia is certainly a little darker maybe with more of a sharper edge and focus. Fantastic and subtle acting changes on both of their parts.

    I do like that in the last episode, that revolved so intensely around Walter and Olivia, that we got to see them, even as different characters, still find that chemistry. The pseudo father-daughter thing that has been between them, maybe a little less intense, but still there. They always had a funny bond, and their relationship was a very unique one. You got to kind of see it from a different angle.

    October 24, 2011 at 1:52PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Chris C

    This season has been brutal. The peter less world is poorly written and way too drawn out. With last season drifting near the end I find myself almost ready to quit watching.

    October 24, 2011 at 11:39PM EST Reply to Comment
  • Kittyavatar_talkback_profile

    justjoan123

    Let me put my feelings into apples and oranges terms. I had had in common with this blog a real fondness for three shows: Burn Notice, Chuck and Fringe. At first I would watch all three live. In the past full season I set my DVR for the and first two, watching them within a day, and saw Fringe live. Now I follow the same pattern, setting my DVR for the first two, but I find I have no real urgency to watch them. I am still not 100% sure that I even saw the first new Burn Notice, because the first one I saw didn't address how furious Michael's new handler was over discovering how her agent died -- she just reviewed his CIA status evaluation. You know what? I'm not all that curious. On the other hand, I am still watching Fringe live, so I think that answers my question about my willingness to see where this new season takes me.

    November 9, 2011 at 1:58PM EST Reply to Comment

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