The 'Caprica' cancellation: what went wrong?
Many factors went into the "Battlestar Galactica" prequel's failure.
Paula Malcomson on "Caprica," which Syfy canceled today.
Two unusual things happened with Syfy's decision to cancel "Caprica," effective immediately: First, we had a cable channel pulling a show off its schedule before its current run of episodes had finished (though the remaining five are supposed to air sometime next year). Second, rather than try to downplay the news - say, by sending out a schedule update press release that briefly mentions at the end that Cheap Filler Program X is replacing the previously-scheduled Canceled Show Y - Syfy put out a press release putting the cancellation upfront, complete with a frustrated quote from executive Mark Stern, who noted, "Unfortunately, despite its obvious quality, ‘Caprica’ has not been able to build the audience necessary to justify a second season.”
Neither move is unprecedented, but both are unusual. Their convergence at the same event speaks both to how much Syfy wanted "Caprica" to succeed, and to how badly the show failed. This was a continuation of the channel's prestigious (if not always highly-rated) "Battlestar Galactica" franchise, and the most obvious symbol of the channel's new "science fiction doesn't mean spaceships" ethos, and its ratings were so poor that they couldn't even stick with it for an extra five weeks.
So what went wrong?
Among the possibilities:
The roll-out schedule was odd. The "Caprica" pilot was released as a standalone DVD in April of 2009, only a few weeks after "BSG" ended, but the series proper didn't launch on Syfy until January of 2010. Ten episodes aired in winter and early spring, and then the show wasn't scheduled to come back until January 2011. Someone at Syfy realized that perhaps the waits were getting too extreme, even by cable standards, and in September the return was moved up to early October, which gave "Caprica" the benefit of a good timeslot (after "Stargate Universe") but the detriment of little advance promotion.
Those long and/or irregular gaps in the schedule certainly didn't help the show gain traction, but I don't think it was a major factor.
"BSG" fans were bitter about that show's finale. Reaction to the "Lost" finale was mild compared to some of the vitriol aimed at Ronald D. Moore and the other "BSG" producers (many of whom moved on to work on "Caprica") after a finale that was heavy on spirituality and light on concrete explanations to various pieces of the show's mythology. As with the "Lost" finale, not all fans hated it - maybe not even most of them - but the "BSG" audience was so small to begin with(*) that even if, say, a third of the viewers bitterly swore off the franchise, "Caprica" was already starting in a hole that may have been too deep to climb out of.
(*) And given that, I'm going to be making some audience generalizations in the next couple of theories. I'm not suggesting all viewers feel this way, but when you start with such a small base, it doesn't take a lot to push things in the direction of cancellation.
Sci-fi fans don't necessarily want to watch soap opera. Moore's initial pitch for the show was, "It's a sci-fi version of 'Dallas,'" and while the finished product moved quite a bit off of that, there were still plenty of elements - marital discord, corporate intrigue, teen angst/rebellion - that may not have played well to viewers who don't like so much overlap between their genres. (The mix also included a whole lot of theology, which is essential to the origin of the "BSG" universe but, based on reaction to the "BSG" finale, not everyone's favorite subject.)
Of course, "BSG" did plenty of genre cross-pollination - it was as much a political drama as a hardcore sci-fi show - but it always had the spaceships and killer robots (the same genre staples Syfy execs said they wanted to move away from) to make the purists feel comfortable. "Caprica" had a killer robot, but it was one with the mind and soul of a teenage girl. For some, that's icky.
Soap opera fans don't necessarily want to watch sci-fi. And here was perhaps the bigger miscalculation. Syfy envisioned "Caprica" as a show with a broader audience base than "BSG." They saw the spaceships and other hardware as a turn-off to viewers who might have enjoyed the political allegory or character drama. But a planet-bound incarnation of "Battlestar Galactica" isn't enough of a break for that sort of hypothetical viewer. If you're not going to watch sci-fi, you're not going to watch sci-fi; it's not a matter of degree or number of shots of the vacuum of space. Some viewers just won't watch shows with certain subjects.
(That's a problem that's always plagued "Friday Night Lights." Many soap fans won't watch because of the football; many football fans won't watch because of the soap operatics.)
It wasn't very good. This, really, is what it comes down to. "Caprica" didn't get off to a great start in the ratings earlier this year, owing to the previous reasons, but if it had held that number or increased a bit over time, Syfy would have given it a longer leash. But many viewers who came into "Caprica" without prejudices about genre or the "BSG" ending still didn't like what they saw. It was a series with some interesting individual pieces that never cohered into a whole.
The most compelling and/or sympathetic character was Zoe Graystone (Alessandra Torresani), and she was the aforementioned teenage girl's soul stuck inside a killer robot. The writers kept losing the thread on ostensible leads Daniel Graystone (Eric Stoltz) and Joseph Adama (Esai Morales), and had even less idea what to do with Graystone's wife Amanda (Paula Malcomson) or bumbling schemer Sister Clarice (Polly Walker).
The show returned from hiatus trying to reshape its various problematic characters - Clarice was much less inept, Joseph stopped whining and embraced his family's gangster roots, etc. - but there was still a lack of clear storytelling direction, and I kept having to convince myself to watch the episodes that were sitting on my DVR.
That won't be necessary now. In broad strokes, we know how the story of "Caprica" ends - the killer robots multiply and wipe out most of humanity, while Adama's delinquent son Willie will grow up to be the leader of the few thousand survivors - but that's decades in the future for these characters. Their specific stories won't get to finish. Syfy is going to retreat to safer territory for another prequel: "Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome," about Bill Adama's early military career, and featuring all the spaceships and other elements that Syfy was so afraid of a couple of years ago.
I liked the idea of "Caprica" very much. I enjoy space battles as much as the next fanboy, but there should be room on television for science fiction that doesn't have to lean on the hardware, and can lean on the futuristic trappings to tell great stories about ideas and characters. "Caprica" just wasn't that show.
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 161 Comments
October 27, 2010 at 9:30PM EST Reply to CommentI can say I am a group of #2: die-hard BSG fan who was so put off by the finale that I just refused to watch Caprica until it was over and I was assured it would not be horrible. I have a feeling that did a lot of damage, but I wouldn't put too much of a weight on it. I think it's more likely that the premise of the show was simply not very interesting.
KansasDan Ditto. The BSG finale was so horrible that after all that time of loving a show, I went directly to hate. I don't ever remember that happening before or since.
October 28, 2010 at 3:28PM ESTBoricuaintexas I have blocked large chunks of the BSG finale from my memory, and I was actually excited about Caprica, but it just fell flat.
October 29, 2010 at 11:10PM ESTat I was disappointed with the entire last season of BSG, and the finale was sufficient for me to abandon the entire show. Why watch a prequel when I know how badly the whole thing ends?
November 19, 2010 at 7:57PM ESTPost a comment...
April 20, 2013 at 1:56AM EST
October 27, 2010 at 9:31PM EST Reply to Commentpersonally, I wanted to see more about how Cylons were created and less STO crap...even though I understand that it was a huge part of BSG.
the pilot had more cylon stuff than the rest of the series...
Tangie I was okay with Caprica. Would have liked to see more. I'm kind of angry it was pulled off so quickly. Lots of potential.
November 25, 2010 at 3:26PM EST
October 27, 2010 at 9:34PM EST Reply to CommentI think people - myself included - were turned off by the fact that it was a story set in a world where robots and spaceships exist, only they were never shown to us (due to Syfy's unwillingness to go there). It was like going into a brothel and having someone constantly say "sex doesn't exist."
October 27, 2010 at 9:37PM EST Reply to CommentI agree with everything in this article, except that the show wasn't very well written. I had never watched BSG and instantly fell in love with Caprica. I love how it is a sci-fi show, but the sci-fi is in everyone's daily life, it's not used for action. I loved the characters and their dramas, and thought most storylines were beautifully written. The theological debate was a great analogy to nowadays. I even loved the slow pace that so many people hated.
And the show promissed to get even better, with a quicker pace and things moving towards the War and the BSG events. I do understand however why many people didn't like it.
Everything here was dead on. SyFy's programming was just terrible from Day One. Apart from that, I realize A LOT of BSG fans hated that the show didn't have the action facet the original series had, but was instead a drama with sci-fi elements. And I do admit I'm one of the few soap opera fans that got fascinated by the show's mix of sci-fi and futurism to tell sometimes simple, even cliché soap stories. Why would a fan of Dallas, or Desperate Housewives, even bother to watch an episode of Caprica?
RIP, Caprica. I just hope the next spin-off has the great writing Caprica ( and BSG, as I now started watching it ) had along with the action, and that it gives some resolution to what happened to these characters and how things developed from Caprica to the War.
Tim Yeah I totally agree. I came at the show from the same perspective, I had never watched BSG. I was actually kind of uninterested in Caprica until this summer because the promotion of the show was poorly done. I just caught a few episodes on TV unintentionally late in the summer, then I was hooked. I loved the pace of the show and the complexity of the characters.
November 5, 2010 at 9:10PM ESTJohn
October 27, 2010 at 9:41PM EST Reply to CommentIt just wasn't a good show. The soap opera bits were too uninteresting for good soap opera,. the sci fi was too boring for good sci fi. But they had one heck of a cast, though.
PotatoSolution Ultimately, I agree that the final reason Alan listed is the most accurate one.
October 27, 2010 at 11:06PM ESTI admired the show for its lofty ambitions, but it was just not very fun to watch. And I don't mean it should have had more spaceships and robots (Mad Men is ridiculously fun to watch, and has a decided lack of spaceships and robots), but it should have had more compelling characters and storylines. The entire monotheism/polytheism conflict was DOA, and never got interesting.
Also, I will never understand the "BSG ending destroyed all happiness forever" crowd, but I suppose I'm loathe to admit that perhaps they did have an effect on Caprica's ratings.
Baylink
October 27, 2010 at 9:42PM EST Reply to Comment> Many soap fans won't watch because of the football; many football fans won't watch because of the soap operatics.)
This is something that Grey's generally gets right for its audience: the medicine is in support of the soap opera. You have to *have* the medicine, but you don't want to let it take over, too often.
Same thing with Chuck: you have to *have* some Charah, but you don't want to *dwell* on it too frequently.
Jonathan
October 27, 2010 at 9:44PM EST Reply to CommentHonestly, I think the biggest problem was the quality of the show. It just wasn't very good. I watched the first few episodes, then missed one, and it took me about three weeks to remember that it was still on. Maybe if it had been higher quality viewers would've stuck around.
Ed W
October 27, 2010 at 9:52PM EST Reply to CommentBSG got a bad reputation not just from the finale but there was a lot of dissatisfaction leading up to that. It was common to hear my BSG fan friends say the series sucked after season 3. I think with some series like this or Lost, the producers and critics and executives don't quite get how disappointed fans were. It's not about just one ending not being ideal, but about the shows just unravelling.
blaeae
October 27, 2010 at 9:52PM EST Reply to CommentI liked caprica a whole lot, not just 'cause of it's connection with BSG, but as with BSG it had the ability to make you think about your own place in the greater scheme of things. I will miss Caprica and I'm sad I never got to see the ending, at least of the first season.
guest
October 27, 2010 at 9:59PM EST Reply to CommentGreat analysis Alan, but I'm gonna throw one more thought out there. The "mystery" to these stories has a much larger impact than I think people realize. It's not just that the BSG finale wasn't great, it's that the reason it wasn't great took all the fun out of watching what happened before. Think about it...
We know there is a god...or gods. We know it's all planned. In a sense, we know how this version of man ends. As you mentioned, it was the mixture of the cool mysteries with the dramas that made the dramas more tolerable...but when I know there's an all powerful force affecting everything, and where this all leads, and oh by the way, any mystery that the writers in Caprica bring up really isn't worth thinking about because it will probably be lazily cast aside as the work of gods.....why would I want to watch any more?
LizatLAX
October 27, 2010 at 10:00PM EST Reply to CommentI have to think that knowing how it ends had to work against it as well. Especially 'Caprica' where 'the end' is so far away, it gave the impression of dragging because it wasn't going to pay off the Cylons/war for years and years. How could the show really get anyone worried about Zoebot or anyother Cylon creation when we all know the war doesn't start for years and years? So I think that small thing really worked against the show to suck a lot of the narrative tension right out of it.
Razorback
October 27, 2010 at 10:01PM EST Reply to CommentNo... sorry, you got it all wrong. The NUMBER ONE PROBLEM was that Zoe is THE WORST character on the show. The actor could never pull off the emotions that her fellow actors could. Just like with BIONIC WOMAN, they picked the WRONG MAIN ACTOR.
Dezbot ITA with this post. I watched in spite of Zoe. Good to know I can delete the rest of the unwatched eps off my DVR since I'm not going to invest any more time in a show that will never pay off.
October 27, 2010 at 10:28PM ESTchristy2 Absolutely! Robotic even before she was turned into a robot, except when she was being a spoiled child. And spoiled children are so enjoyable to watch. NOT.
October 29, 2010 at 1:52PM ESTName LastName Very true!!! 1) The critical character was given to a wrong actress. 2) Plus, most of the plot around teenage action and dialogs (e.g., stupid arena fights in the virtual world) seem to have been written to attract teenage audience; these false notes downgraded the bigger show idea as a result.
August 27, 2012 at 5:19PM ESTA
October 27, 2010 at 10:05PM EST Reply to CommentI too felt burned by the finale of BSG (uh, also by the last few seasons), but I gave Caprica a shot. I didn't like that it was yet more "spiritual sci-fi," although I was a lot more offended by the heavy-handedness than that premise itself. Then I didn't like Zoe; I have zero idea how you sympathize with a philosophically spoiled brat (whom the story tried to sexualize and canonize at the same time - talk about icky). And, as you pointed out, Alan, we knew what the ultimate conclusion would be, and the show seemed more interested in providing origins for the answers I didn't like from BSG than exploring story possibilities of a pre-war universe.
October 27, 2010 at 10:10PM EST Reply to Comment@Alan: I know I'm going to have to eternally agree to disagree with you on this, but 'Caprica' was a damn sight better than 'Stargate: Hey Boobies Are Edgy' -- which had never gotten over the problem it shared with 'Atlantis'. Serving up the same old stories SG1 did better ten years back.
Jake I don't know what you're referring to. Was there some qualitative comparison to Stargate Universe that I missed?
October 27, 2010 at 10:43PM EST
@Jake: They're both on SyFy, and I understand that show's ratings aren't so crash hot either. Alan is probably going to strenuously disagree with me on this (not for the first or the last time, I suspect), but if you want to talk about a hot mess that deserved a mercy killing on SyFy it wasn't Caprica.
October 27, 2010 at 11:32PM ESTBut, hell, in a world were dreck like 'Outsourced' gets a full season order, I'm obviously unfit to run a network. :)
Jake I see. Based on Alan's characterization here, and from what I'd read elsewhere on the Internet, I had a different impression of SGU's ratings, at least for season one. I've never watched it, so I couldn't speak to its quality.
October 28, 2010 at 12:05AM ESTTigerlilySVS
October 27, 2010 at 10:14PM EST Reply to CommentI found last year's season compelling enough to keep watching but the new shows have been all over the place. When I fell asleep during the last 15 minutes last week and realized I didn't miss anything, I knew it was in trouble.
mike b
October 27, 2010 at 10:18PM EST Reply to CommentWrite in campaigns have started. A rabid fan has spoken and is trying to get people organized.
www.mycomicbookcrisis.com
Chris L One rabid fan?
October 28, 2010 at 2:46PM ESTRick
October 27, 2010 at 10:29PM EST Reply to CommentI'm similar to Group #2, but not quite. I really enjoyed the BSG finale, but the months leading up to it were exhausting. Every time I turned around, Moore was saying, "That will be explained in the webisodes" or "We're planning a movie from the Cylon perspective" or "The fans came up with the answer to that on this obscure message board, go find it." By the time they announced Caprica, my feeling was 'If it's not in these last 5 hours of the series, I'm not watching it.' Those last few episodes came and went, and I walked away happy. Zero interest in anything more.
I think Lost really did it right- there were certainly bonuses to find, but if it wasn't broadcast in the regular time slot, it wasn't important (At least, that's how I always felt until I heard about the Hurley/Ben bonus features. Damn you, Darlton!)
To be fair, I probably would have been suckered in if I'd been watching SifFy for Stargate... but Holy hell, SG:Universe is unwatchable.
Seth Davis
October 27, 2010 at 10:29PM EST Reply to CommentAlso, the main thrust of the 1.5 season was Daniel trying to replicate Zoe's avatar program, except we know from BSG that the Final Five were the ones who "rediscovered" organic memory transfer and brought it to the Caprica-version cylons.
This made the entire plot line essentially worthless.
The second half of the season was a bit better than the first half, but it all felt like a mess. I don't think the writers knew exactly what they wanted to say or how to say it.
The world they created was interesting, but they did absolutely nothing with it.
Natalie I agree. The biggest problem with this show is that all the major questions had already been answered in the previous series. There was no mystery or drama outside of the interpersonal stuff, because we knew the big answers already.
October 28, 2010 at 12:20PM ESTJake
October 27, 2010 at 10:32PM EST Reply to CommentI didn't care for the Galactica finale, but it didn't tarnish the rest of the series for me (I felt the same way about season 6 of Lost). That said, I preferred to watch Caprica without regard to the Battlestar connection. The show had definite potential, but it never came together. There was never even a true payoff of the premise of that initial ad campaign. I actually preferred the first half-season, but it was flawed enough that I couldn't blame the showrunners for trying to change things up when the show came back. SGU was supposed to be a strong lead-in, but I get the impression that it has softened in ratings this season. Oh well.
I do hope Torresani finds something good for her next role. All the young actresses, for that matter. I'm sure the actors for the adult characters will be fine.
Well, indeed - I was in the 'hated it' camp regarding the Sporanos finale, and to be honest was pretty meh-some about the last couple of season. But I think if I'd said "I'm never watching anything anyone connected with this POS does ever again" 1) I'd have been hauled off for a drug test, and, 2) I'd be a damn liar because I had no problem checking out Mad Men (which I adore) and Nurse Jackie (more of a bubble show for me).
October 27, 2010 at 10:44PM EST
Also, I'm quite liking 'Boardwalk Empire' despite wanting to sue exec. producer/pilot director Martin Scorsese to get back the life I wasted on 'The Departed' and 'Shutter Island'.
October 27, 2010 at 10:47PM ESTMatt Cafaro
October 27, 2010 at 10:41PM EST Reply to CommentTaken on the whole, BSG fans who claim to be dissatisfied with the Series Finale and/or the whole of season 4 are people without a real clue, anyways.
The question always must be asked of these people: What show do you THINK you were watching?
Religion and spirituality were apart of the BSG universe from the word "go."
The idea of a divine presence invested in Cylon and humanity alike were apart of BSG from the word "go."
All real BSG fans know that the actual season one finale was SUPPOSED to be Home, Part 2, seven episodes into season 2.
At the very end of Home, Part 2, when Baltar finds out that Sharon is pregnant with Helo's child, a child he COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN ABOUT EVEN IN HIS DEEPEST PSYCHOSIS, he asks the character we the fans had been calling "Head Six," "Who, or what, are you?" She tells him that, "I am an Angel of God sent here to protect you, to guide you, to love you." He then asks, "To what end." Angel Six replies, "To the end of the human race."
I mean, how much more broadly do some people need it spelled out for them?
The show was ALWAYS about technology vs. faith, science vs. religion, etc, etc.
God ALWAYS played a part in everything the show was about.
Those "fans" screaming about what they claim as deus ex machina conveniently forgot about other events in which God played a role.
Such as in my personal favorite episode, THE HAND OF GOD, where Baltar is given divine inspiration as to what target to hit, when he has no clue at all.
Or how about in ANY of the situations where Baltar is kept alive only through the guidance of Angel Six?
People claiming the show changed, or it punked out, or whatever aren't real fans at all, because they obviously weren't actually paying attention from the very beginning. From the miniseries.
People so limited by their bias against religion or faith who are so incensed when the word "God" is put into a science fiction show... it's crazy.
Call a divine presence or higher being "Q" or "The Force" and these people have no issues. Call that presence or being "God," and their true prejudice comes out in full.
If you REALLY believe that the impossible is possible, that there are wonders in the universe man has never seen, and may never see, why is it that God or a presence or a creator or a higher being or whatever cannot be a part of that?
It's crazy. To deny the existence of God is a personal choice and I respect that. But to deny the possibility of God is close-minded.
To get so up in arms because you allowed yourself to be blinded by your own biases from the very beginning of the show, that when you could not escape anymore what BSG was about all this time... it's insane. That's what it is. It's insanity.
Being upset about Lost is understandable. Lost never felt very coherent. But being upset at BSG is insane. The idea of God or divinity or a higher being was ALWAYS present in the show. And through the Angels, God was ALWAYS involved with the characters of the show (even if it doesn't like to be called that, heh).
Some people really need to go back and take off their anti-religion or anti-God blinders and watch the show and see it for what it is. If you still don't like it, fine.
But stop saying it changed. Stop saying the Series Finale "ruined" it for you. HOW? What show were YOU watching?
You know what ruins it for you? Finding out The Force is germs living in your blood cells. THAT ruins it for you. THAT changes the story in a ruinous way.
Galactica was Galactica WITH God from the word go. Some of y'all were just too blind to see it.
As for Caprica, the show was a mess. I think Jane Espensen was the wrong kind of writer to run this kind of show.
And it really didn't give us what we needed to see quick enough. It only finally NOW was picking up the resurrection/Cylon storyline, putting "souls" into machines and such.
THAT should have been the main plot line from the word, "go," not all of the whiney grief and guilt and V-World and business political b.s.
Jake None of that described why I was disappointed in the BSG finale.
October 27, 2010 at 10:47PM ESTMatt Cafaro Please, explain then, because the most common refrain I hear from people is that they hated "the God part."
October 27, 2010 at 11:00PM ESTAnd it's not the spiritual person in me that rejects that notion, it's the person in me that understood the plot of the show from the get go that rejects that notion.
A conversation with someone who says something other than, "I hated the God stuff," would actually be refreshing.
Joseph I'm with Jake.
October 27, 2010 at 11:01PM ESTPhdelicious ITA with Jake. The reason the BSG finale disappointed me so completely that I have no desire to rewatch the series or try anything related to it had nothing to do with the religious connotations of the story (aside from RDM casting himself as God).
October 27, 2010 at 11:07PM ESTFor me it has much more to do with the use of flashbacks to previously unmentioned events to completely rewrite character motivations/desires and the fact that several symbols/visions/events of the series ended up being useless throwaways.
Matt Cafaro How did the flashbacks "rewrite" or retcon ANYTHING about the character's motivations or desires in the show? I don't understand your reasoning behind that statement. Please elaborate.
October 27, 2010 at 11:17PM ESTWhat those flashbacks were to illustrate were how people were BEFORE the attack. The attack itself is what changed their motivations and desires. Who those people were in the flashback were who they REALLY were. The attack changed EVERYTHING.
Are you the same person you were after 9/11? Maybe you are. Maybe you live in California or Seattle and were so far away that you could distance yourself from those events and besides the outside pressures (airport screenings, etc) noting INTERNALLY changed about who you are.
But you can't say that about people living in New York or D.C. Those people are even a small way, fundamentally different after 9/11.
The flashbacks just gave us a window into who the characters were before the attack.
Think about Lee from the miniseries. Is that the Lee we ended up with? No. The Lee in the flashbacks was very much like the Lee from the miniseries. But after the attacks and over the course of the series he CHANGED.
Do you WANT the characters to remain static? That can work in sitcoms, when you hit reset after every episode, but it doesn't work that way in long-form arc-based shows.
And Moore didn't "cast himself as God." He was simply a man on the street. Where do you get THAT from?
Joseph I didn't hate the BSG finale, and it certainly didn’t ruin the rest of the series for me, so I'm probably not the person Matt is talking to. That said, the final half of season five felt contrived to me. In particular, the original cylon plan (as presented in season five – I haven’t seen “The Planâ€) amounted to one bitter cylon who was trying to prove a point. Color me underwhelmed.
October 27, 2010 at 11:26PM ESTI gave Caprica an honest chance though. The pilot was intriguing, and the series had its moments, but ultimately I wasn’t really invested in any of the characters. Hopefully the new series will have a few passing references to let us know what happened to the Caprica characters, but I don’t need anything more than that.
apearlma ITA with Jake. Here's a straightforward example...
October 27, 2010 at 11:43PM ESTOne of the most significant characters in the show was the fleet. The fleet didn't trust the Adamas. This was repeatedly hammered home. So why did all of the fleet decide to let the Adamas kill all their technology and send all their ships into the sun?
That's a decision that needs major air time to show that the fleet has come onboard with trusting the Adamas. If it doesn't do that, then the rest of the series showing the tensions of the fleet is false.
And as that's where a lot of the major drama of the series came from, it isn't a decision to be made as lightly as the series finale made it out to be.
Jake I don't really want to get into it, because it feels like I'm stumbling into an argument, and I am not one of the people for whom Alan's explanation b) applies. Plus, other commenters have touched upon it somewhat. Looking back, I think most of my issues with the show's final episodes stem primarily from matters of pacing.
October 27, 2010 at 11:53PM EST
It wasn't the religion per se. It was the gracelessness with which it was used in the finale. The religious elements had always been couched in ambiguity, in prophesy, in visions, in mystery. In the finale, all that was stripped away, in the most artless way possible.
October 27, 2010 at 11:57PM ESTAdd to that the idiotic decisions that the entire fleet supposedly agreed on, guaranteeing the rapid and painful demise of Colonial culture. One of the key questions the humans had asked all along was "Do we deserve to survive?" In the end, they decided "no" but didn't have the conviction to own that decision, so they threw away their technology, probably resulting in the entire non-native population, save for human/cylon child dying from disease within a generation.
I would have been happier if they'd arrived on Earth in 1980 and built a flying motorcycle.
medrawt I can't really sign on with the entirety of the post at the head of this subthread, but I'm definitely in the camp of "if you thought the God stuff was out of nowhere," which regardless of what the people in this conversation are saying, was a big part of the anti-reaction netwide, "then you weren't watching the show they made, because the writers made it pretty clear what side of things they were coming down on." And I'm an atheist, and I loved it.
October 28, 2010 at 12:19AM ESTI didn't love the finale - I thought it wrapped stuff up somewhat artlessly, although for me the biggest disappointment was the way the Opera House stuff was sort of brushed off. THAT was it? (Although the Opera House in general is a good example of "if you didn't think there was a high power in the show's universe, WTF was that about?")
The "destroying their technology and giving up civilization" thing didn't bug me because one of the things that drew me to the series, that I felt they DID do enough work to establish over time, was the incredible weariness that the entire fleet felt. One episode was called "Lay Down Your Burdens," another "Taking a Break From All Your Worries," there are suicides after they land on "their" "Earth" and find it a blasted wreck, and that episode (I think) was named for a lyric about contemplating drowning yourself. For my needs, the show completely sold the idea that those 40K people (or however many were left) were en masse existentially exhausted to a degree we can't really contemplate, and in that context I understood the decision to just walk away from everything. I mean, it's really really dark - this is where humanity gave up on itself - but I think the writers earned it, at least for my money.
Matt Cafaro Statement that shows CLOSE attention wasn't paid: the religion aspect was always couched in ambiguity, mystery, etc.
October 28, 2010 at 12:25AM ESTAgain, that statement, as to the whole plot of the series is verifiably not true. There are moments when the use of God is vague, as you claim.
And then, again, there are moments when it is not. I akin this sydrome to the part in "Bruce Almighty" where he's in his car screaming for a sign from God, and literally, a truck full of traffic signs (STOP, Yield, Wrong Way) veers in front of him. You're not seeing what's in front of you because you aren't paying attention, you aren't ready to see it, or you don't want to see it.
Again, from what was originally supposed to be the first series finale but wound up as episode seven of season 2: "I AM AN ANGEL OF GOD SENT HERE TO GUIDE YOU..."
What's ambiguous about that statemnt? There is NO ambiguity in that statement. Angel Six had REPEATEDLY given Baltar information his subconscious had NO WAY of knowing. The birth of a Cylon-Human hybrid for instance.
There is no ambiguity at all there.
As for the decision of the fleet to abandon technology, again, you're not paying attention to the theme of the show.
All of this has happened before, and it will happen again.
And the human beings left, the architects of their own destruction now three times over (if you count the skinjob Cylons on Real Earth being destroyed by their second-class robotic centurians), decided that they had ENOUGH with the Cycle of Time, and wanted to forge a NEW Cycle.
The idea that the 30,000 humans who were left, who had spent 2.5 years in space and on a dingy planet in insurrection, wouldn't want a new start is the idiotic thought.
The idea that they would want to break the Cycle of Time, break the idea that humanity keeps on screwing itself over, the idea that for once, they put their souls ahead of their science... that's not idiotic.
As for the time frame, nowhere does it say this is an instantaneous decision. They could have been in orbit a week or two for all we know.
What you don't want to admit is that you wouldn't be willing to give everything up for a brand new start. But that's us, that's you. Maybe to understand a decision like that, curled up on your couch in front of your big screen, typing away on your awesome MacBook (as I am), you actually have to try to imagine how life was for those people in the 2.5 years since the Fall of the Colonies.
As for the assertion that they gave up their culture, that's hogwash.
You equate their technology with their culture? Since when is that a truism? Maybe that's the problem with OUR modern culture today.
Culture is art, music, religion, philosophy, ideals, morality. Technology is a TOOL. Technology is not culture.
In the idea of the show, their culture lived on.
In the religions and philosophies of the Greeks and Romans. The monotheistic beliefs of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The ideals of democracy.
Technology does not equate culture, and giving up technology certainly does not mean giving up culture.
Sean I dont care how much God was in the show from the beginning. I am not buying that thousands of people used to having advanced technology and living on those ships would so readily destroy them to go live like primitives. The second they decided to destroy the ships is the second the show took a leap off the deep end of plausibility.
October 28, 2010 at 2:21AM ESTDaily Planet I have no problem with God or religious elements in stories. What turned me off about BSG was pretty much all of Season 4. It's poorly paced, poorly thought out as evidenced by the repeated writeovers and plot holes even Moore admitted to, and the way it wildly whips plot and characters around like a junkie desperately seeking the next "shock moment" fix. Only as the plot and characters fade into incoherence, the shock moments become increasingly obvious, tired, and ineffective.
October 28, 2010 at 2:23AM ESTIt was a show running on fumes. In that sense, I'm a little less harsh on the finale than most simply because the finale didn't receive a handoff from the rest of Season 4 that any approach could have coherently closed. That said, it does incorrectly state what Mitochondrial Eve is, incorrectly state what the implications of Hera are, incorrectly state the issue with unexpected events in a closed system, etc. Basically, it posits a God who is a moron, whose Plan can't possibly yield anything but more of the same. As God stories go, that's not one I find particularly satisfying. From my persepctive, the Colonials accomplished nothing and died without leaving a single meaningful trace of anything. That would be even more obvious if the whole of Season 4 and the finale weren't so structurally incoherent.
Now, that said, I still like Battletsar overall. it was an interesting and innovative show that simply ended in a disappointing fashion. It happens. I watched Caprica to see if it, too, could be interesting and innovatiove. It was in some ways, but not enought to salvage a show that never found a clear narrative focus. I agree with you, however, that more focus on the philosophical ramifications of resurrection, as we saw in the last episode with Daniel and his avatar Amanda, would have helped.
Jolene I think the issue is a shift in tone in the way the show approached religion. When Six says that line about, "I am an angel of God sent to guide you... to the end of the human race," it is meant to be disturbing - it disturbs Baltar, and its tone is such that we know that, as viewers, this is ominous, not reassuring. The beauty of the relationship between Baltar and Head Six, probably one of the 2-3 best relationships in the show, is its ambiguity, its mystery, that the relationship FEELS real, but is not necessarily real, that she is not a particularly helpful person, but an occasionally (mostly?) frightening one. This was all painfully undercut by the introduction of the actual physical Caprica Six in Seasons 3 & 4, and the ludicrous backstory in which Baltar "loved" her because she helped his father, which destroys my favorite part of the series - his development from the brutally selfish man we see in the pilot miniseries, who clearly does NOT love Caprica Six at all, who is open about the fact that his first reaction to the potential destruction of his entire race is his own fear of dying and desire to avoid any consequences of his betrayal, to the interesting figure we see in Season Four, who has grappled with his guilt/shame and public humiliation and downfall and come to feel a sense of real responsibility towards his fellow human beings. Sending him skipping off in the fields with Caprica Six and having them watch a version of our Earth as bizarre angel figures is such a betrayal of everything I loved about that storyline that it sickens me to write about it.
October 28, 2010 at 3:24AM ESTcgeye Mr. Cafaro, stop being so monotheistically abusive.
October 28, 2010 at 3:42AM ESTOne of the strengths of BSG was, at least in the first seasons, a respect for polytheism and daring to cast monotheism as a purely genocidal religious choice. The destroyers of humanity did so not only to kill their predecessors, but also to kill those gods. They were sneaky baby-killing terrorists not above holding a traitor by the brain and gonads, to get him to do what they wanted. Their god was only one of love because they said so; the Cylons gave us no proof through their actions, of this, even when on New Caprica they could have demonstrated this. Theirs was a God without Christ, and their revenge theology showed this. Your identification of that god with our Judeo-Christian one tells me more about you than BSG did about theirs.
The sadness of CAPRICA was that it dropped that active exploration of all the possible religions in the Colonies and among the Cylons, in favor of a manga-level robot schoolgirl fetish and a weak rehashing of the most reductive aspects of BSG's God = Terrorist identification, the wackass Soldiers of the One. They could have expanded their view to the harms of fundamentalism generally, and gave us a view of what it was like to trust one god over another -- but no, it's God, or gay-killer-Mafioso-friendly heathenism. BSG gave us heroes who loved their lares, penates and gods, who fought for them and asked for their mercy and got it, somehow. The final BSG seasons should have kept us involved in seeing another culture's point of view, instead of conforming the end to mimic our culture. If I wanted a lethal God-fearing blonde I could turn to FOX NEWS. And I doubt any writer of the finale had kids -- I can choose to commit self-genocide for myself, but for my children? Really? When there's absolutely no guarantee that the Cylons would let them live? Let their gods live? Hell, no.
CAPRICA misjudged our appetite for wanting to see sympathetic fundamentalist terrorists. They showed us the cruelty of those who follow one god, and failed to go deep about why those who followed many gods fought back. The producers promised a peek at an entire culture, or at least a fair fight between many gods and one, through compelling characters. They failed.
I'm with Matt.
October 28, 2010 at 11:33PM ESTSo say all of us.
Passing By on A Rainy Day Well not all of us say that. I watched Battlestar, and while I admire Matt's enthusiasm, I stand with those who say the show collapses into a complete mess. I loved the first two seasons, but I'm not going to let that blind me to what followed.
November 20, 2010 at 9:43PM ESTCaprica had the same pacing and incoherence problems as Season 4 of Battlestar, just more so.
October 27, 2010 at 10:50PM EST Reply to CommentI just never got past the notion that cylons were created from a teenage emo girl. It ruined the series for me from the start.
jenfullmoon Hah, yeah, totally. The actress is a cute girl, but the character is creepy and obnoxious and sexualized as hell. Actually that applied to the entire show. I loathed the pilot and loathed the plot of it and couldn't stand to watch anything else, which sounded just as bad. So yay for canceling it.
October 28, 2010 at 1:18AM ESTfritanga
October 27, 2010 at 10:54PM EST Reply to CommentIt was boring as hell (as boring as Rubicon) and horribly cast (I love Polly Walker and Paula Malcolmson, but they were wasted here). The teen angst angle completely torpedoed it, too - it was stupid and uninvolving. I'm not surprised by this cancellation, just surprised it didn't happen sooner.
Boricuaintexas What's with the Rubicon dig? That was one show where the slow pace actually made sense.
October 29, 2010 at 11:44PM ESTCharles
October 27, 2010 at 10:56PM EST Reply to CommentOption e) for me.
It just wasn't very good.
The premise held a lot of potential, there were enough ideas there that could have been turned into a great show. The failure lay in how those ideas were turned into television.
The characterisation was abysmal, week after week, and this is a fault that must be laid squarely at the feet of the show-runners. They allowed their writers to manipulate their characters like clay puppets, bending and twisting to fit whatever artificial requirements the plot demanded.
If Moore wants to create character-driven SF (which is something I'd love to see done more often, or indeed ever), then he needs to learn some basic truths. The characters need to be placed center-stage, and need to be given the room they need to develop properly. Instead, they were little more than ciphers, whose integrity was trampled upon whenever the writers felt the need.
Eick and Moore were more interested in advancing the plot to showcase all their cool ideas: monotheistic terrorism, virtual afterlives*, what happens to the military-industrial complex when you don't need soldiers, etc. These ideas took over, but the producers still clung to the conceit that the show was character-driven, and tried to fake it by having their actors emote until they were turned to slush.
I'm GLAD it was cancelled. I watched ep 11 and then gave up (a Mother Superior who's in her twenties? give me a break), maybe I'll catch up with the rest later to see how bad it got in the end.
*For a far better take on virtual afterlives, see Iain M. Banks' latest Culture novel, Surface Detail.
Matt Cafaro Charles, to be fair, Moore and Eick were NOT the showrunners on Caprica as they were on BSG.
October 27, 2010 at 11:03PM ESTJane Espensen was the showrunner on Caprica.
Had Moore and Eick actually ran the writer's room as they did on BSG, the show would have been more coherently plotted with stronger characters.
I liked Jane's work on Buffy, but Caprica was not her best by a long shot.
Matt Cafaro Oh, and I'm pretty sure Meg Tilly is in her 40's. :-)
October 27, 2010 at 11:04PM ESTCharles Matt: Hmm, yes, you're right, Meg Tilly is actually 50... Ok, I guess I just paid her a bit of a compliment, heh. I do remember thinking she looked way too young to be believable as a Supreme Matriarch, she certainly looked younger than Clarice.
October 27, 2010 at 11:21PM ESTIf Espensen was the one actually running the show, then that explains a lot. She did some decent work under Whedon, but I haven't been a fan of shows she's written since then. I assumed it was Eick and Moore since they've been credited as being the creators in several places.
Matt Cafaro Charles,
October 28, 2010 at 12:01AM ESTWhen thinking creators, think like Peter Berg created Friday Night Lights, but Jason Katims has been the show runner, producing and running the writers rooms (running the full arc of the seasons, really) since the show came to Direct TV.
Caprica is/was Moore and Eick's idea, but they gave the show to Jane to run as they had hands in other pots.
With Blood&Chrome, for instance, it appears as if Eick will be running the show sans Moore, but of course, Moore will get creative credit as well as the obligatory executive producer label.
@Matt Cafaro: It's extremely unlikely that Moore will have anything to do 'Blood & Chrome' since he signed a two year development deal with Sony Pictures TV this May, and I rather doubt they're paying him to generate content for a rival company.
October 28, 2010 at 9:38PM ESTCharles
October 27, 2010 at 11:01PM EST Reply to Commentfor those that think it might help: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/caprica-for-season-2.html
Chrissy
October 27, 2010 at 11:03PM EST Reply to CommentI actually quite liked the first half of the season, although I thought it ended weak. But these new four are still sitting on my DVR, and I haven't felt motivated to watch them. I'd say in part it's just a very dour show, and you need to keep some momentum - it's hard to jump into. I'm sorry it's been canceled, but considering I didn't bother to watch the new episodes I can hardly complain.
Phdelicious
October 27, 2010 at 11:10PM EST Reply to CommentI can't comment on the quality of "Caprica" because I'm among the fans who were so disappointed by the BSG finale that they refused to watch. Also, I can't see how roll outs like this one, which SciFi seems to be increasingly fond of, can do anything but hurt a show.
belinda
October 27, 2010 at 11:16PM EST Reply to CommentI know Caprica wasn't exactly the best show ever, but I liked elements of the show enough to still feel disappointed by the cancellation. It's a show with a lot of (perhaps too many? One of the reasons I think Caprica never came together was because it wanted to focus on too many things) ideas that are really intriguing, and I can't find on other shows currently on air.
And I'm so going to be flamed for this, but I actually had many more problems with the LOST finale than I did with the BSG finale (I really had the biggest problem with the epilogue, because that was completely unnecessary and very poorly shot. But if I cut that epilogue out, I actually thought it was a mostly satisfying conclusion).
WWLL
October 27, 2010 at 11:23PM EST Reply to CommentAlan, you haven't said why they PULLED it. Do they have something better to run for five weeks, or could they not air the remaining (i.e. bought and paid for) eps. It makes zero sense.
sepinwall They pulled it because the ratings were godawful. No idea what they're replacing it with.
October 27, 2010 at 11:38PM ESTJason Potapoff Movies about giant mutant octopuses.
October 28, 2010 at 1:02AM ESTHacksaw Jim Dugan Wrasslin'
October 28, 2010 at 10:55AM ESTChrissy Mansquito: The Miniseries.
October 28, 2010 at 11:34AM ESTDezbot I would watch a Mansquito miniseries. I sat all the way through SHARKTOPUS! after all.
October 28, 2010 at 1:33PM ESTBoricuaintexas Maybe they are over the experiment to mainstream sci fi. Maybe they are ready to change the name back to its original spelling and bring out the mutant monster movies with a vengeance.
October 29, 2010 at 11:47PM ESTwebdiva @ boricuaintexas - what makes you think they've given UP the mutant monster movies??! It isn't the mainstreaming Sci-fi that's the problem, it's that SyFy, Moore, and Eick share equal blame for bungling this show. Really: they could have made the focus the contrast between spoiled-brat Zoe versus Willie Adama learning to be the guy who becomes the hero of the quadrant and savior of humanity's remnant, or the contrast between mercenary techno-geek Greystone versus unwilling mobster becoming crusading civil rights attorney Joseph Adama, thus giving us someone to care about -- but Caprica was NONE of those things, it wasted some really great actors by giving them nothing worthwhile to work with, **AND** it was mismanaged on the schedule as well. Face it: They ALL flunked. And if SyFy ever wants to get better ratings, it damned well **better** start programming beyond the fanboys' tastes and include more thoughtful sci-fi and speculative fiction besides the fantasy horse manure. I'm fed UP with crap like Sharktopus!!!!! Why do I have to wait for BBC to develop good science fiction TV shen SyFy shouldbe doing it?!? So *there.*
November 9, 2010 at 10:36PM ESTMichael
October 27, 2010 at 11:26PM EST Reply to CommentI really thought this show had a lot of potential when it was first announced and I stuck with it throughout the first season even with some of it slow points and awkward moments. But this second season did not start off well, it was even slower than before and had even less interesting action. Real bummer that they couldn't figure out how to properly manipulate the characters and the story.
Dave
October 27, 2010 at 11:42PM EST Reply to CommentI think the most fundamental problem was that the show sprawled its narrative. We'd spend an entire episode in New Cap City, then not see it in any major way for several episodes. We'd be watching the characters on Caprica, then be tossed into New Cap City for an episode. Then we'd spend an episode buried in the STO. Zoe's avatar crashed in the mid-season finale, and we didn't see her again for several episodes. Any time the show might have started to build interest in a narrative, it would switch gears. And all of the narratives were loosely connected, but not in a way that made me happy to see the focus shift from (1) Graystone's corporate world to (2) Adama's gangster world to (3) the STO and teens to (4) the culture of New Cap City. Ultimately this show tried to do too much at the expense of doing anything well.
On top of that it was fairly bleak and slow. These were particularly bad choices if the show's narrative was going to wander all over the place, as it just made it unpleasant to watch.
Too bad -- the scenes between Zoe and Daniel Graystone were great.
Michael I dont see how people can give out bout the BSG finale or season 4 for that matter, it was genius.
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