Review: 'Sons of Anarchy' - 'Kiss': Crazy stupid love
Various characters make foolish decisions based on love for others
Gemma (Katey Sagal) and Clay (Ron Perlman) on "Sons of Anarchy."
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My review of tonight's "Sons of Anarchy" coming up just as soon as it's a little late for Legos...
"Clay cannot be saved." -Unser
Watching "Kiss," I was reminded of a line from, of all things, Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs," in which Darth Helmet explains that "evil will always triumph because good is dumb." In the course of this episode, a lot of characters - Gemma, Unser and Juice, primarily - either make or are on the verge of making incredibly dumb or naive decisions that will enormously benefit Clay or Lincoln Potter. Roger Ebert likes to talk about The Idiot Plot, where the story only works if every character in it is an idiot, and there are times this season where it's felt like the antagonists' plans only keep working because the (relative) good guys are being idiots.
But is it stupidity, or is it something deeper? That's the question we have to ask, in terms of why people make the decisions they make and also whether we believe they would do that.
Wayne, for instance isn't stupid. He knows exactly what he's doing by helping perpetrate Clay's lie about who killed Piney and why. He knows he's putting Tara, the club, and lots of other people he cares about in danger. He's blind to none of this. But he loves Gemma - has always loved Gemma, as we've been reminded time and again in a series of marvelous small moments between Dayton Callie and Katey Sagal - and even though he knows she's playing him with that kiss, he's powerless to resist her.
Juice is definitely not dumb. He sees the wall of Potter's command center and instantly recognizes what's going on here and how Roosevelt lied to him about the club not being the target of the investigation. (It's maybe the best scene in the episode, so visceral and so well played by Theo Rossi; for a moment, Juice isn't a cog in a writer's machine but a righteously pissed-off human being.) He's damned no matter what, and he seems to recognize that the smartest play at this point is to opt out of future snitching. But Potter - whom we know much better than Juice at this point - lays out a convincing argument for why the club is just as damned as Juice, and how Juice might be able to help save the club, if not all of its members, by playing along a bit more. For a man who's been in a deep dark hole ever since Roosevelt first approached him, it's a tiny sliver of light, and you can see him wanting to go for it.
So I buy, on some level, why those two do what they do (or, in Juice's case, prepares to do whatever it is Potter's going to tell him to do), even as I recognize the contrivances being used to keep these two stories going. (As I said last week, I'm tired of all the mechanics in place to keep Clay on his supervillain throne.) And on a character level, I probably even buy that Gemma would be so blind to who and what Clay is. She's given her whole life to him, leaped into his arms after her son died, stayed with him after her husband died (whether she knew Clay killed him or not) and has constructed her entire identity around a belief in SAMCRO and its leader. It's hard for her to shake free of that, and she's likely to do some stupid things - up to and including endangering not only the mother of her grandson but her two grandsons themselves - before she has that come-to-Jesus revelation. But I've come to find her willful ignorance and hypocrisy in service of the plans of both her husbands - the one on the show and the one writing the show - really unpleasant to watch. Gemma's a fool, and she's wrong, but she's so loudly, aggressively wrong and meddlesome that in a way I've come to dislike her even more than Clay. Clay's no hypocrite. He might act the part of someone he isn't, but deep down he knows he's all about self-preservation. I suppose with Gemma, the idea is that this is a tragic flaw: she wants so badly to believe in something that we know isn't true. But the way she carries on about believing it is really grating, endangers characters I like more, and keeps her eeeevil husband in command.
Outside of the Juice/Roosevelt confrontation, the strongest parts of "Kiss" for me revolved around Jax, who had his brainlock moment earlier in the season when he decided to go in with Clay on the cartel deal, but is at least trying to get out from under it. Jax demonstrating better, longer-thinking leadership than Clay in the mess with the Niners was a great moment for the character, and Charlie Hunnam was fantastic in the later scene where Jax responded appropriately to Clay's line about "Doctor Pussy" clouding his judgment.
I'd like to believe that by the end of this season, Jax will have wised up enough to realize that he has to carry out that threat about Clay's hands - and that perhaps Gemma and Unser will be pinning down Clay's wrists while Jax does it - but I fear that between the cartel and Potter, there will be enough external pressure on the club for the two to have to keep working together for many more seasons to come.
Some other thoughts:
• More potential stupidity: Juice and Chibs have that very random (at least from Chibs' perspective) conversation about the rule against blacks, Chibs has been eyeing Juice with suspicion virtually ever since, Juice kills Miles under circumstances no one else was witness to and then Juice tries to hang himself, and the only math that Chibs can do in that situation is to realize that the club won't keep a suicidal member? Not too bright, Mr. Telford is. (Also, kicking Juice out of the club would have been the best thing for him, not that Jax or Chibs realize this.)
• Big Otto, on the other hand, turns out to be smart enough to recognize that Potter's not who he claims to be. And in this situation, Potter is right: Otto has suffered absurdly on behalf of the club. He's the Job of SAMCRO, and his faith finally seems broken.
• Am I the only one wondering if Romeo's plan in terms of meeting with the Irish Kings is to cut out the middleman and get the Kings to sell the guns directly to them, without SAMCRO getting its cut?
• Of course the hitman Luis links Clay up with is one of those "once you call him in, he can't be stopped" kind of bad guys. Even money odds on Clay having buyer's remorse and rushing to stop the guy at the 11th hour?
What did everybody else think?
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Next 105 CommentsCarol
November 1, 2011 at 11:09PM EST Reply to CommentDoes anyone know who sang the song at the end of the show?
Kim White Buffalo- The entire song is awesome. I listened to it on Youtube this morning.
November 2, 2011 at 8:17AM ESTRachel Becker What's the name of the song?
November 23, 2011 at 12:11AM ESTMatt
November 1, 2011 at 11:21PM EST Reply to CommentIf Sutter was serious about this show being based on Hamlet, Ophelia -- Tara -- must die. I'd have more respect for Sutter if he let it happen next week, rather than continually wussing out (that's a technical term) on the hard plot choices in favor of stringing us all along to squeeze an extra couple years out of the show. And now that Clay has murdered Opie's wife *and* father, isn't it about time that the big man kicked a little ass?
MKC I would really like to see Opie finally act out on the club. I am not a fan of killing Tara because she's the only normal (non-whorish) chick on the show.
November 1, 2011 at 11:30PM ESTMatt Yeah, but at least it would be interesting, and unexpected, and wouldn't feel manipulative.
November 1, 2011 at 11:49PM ESTDexx He always said "loosley based" so nothing specific in relation to Hamlet has to happen for him to justify his words.
November 1, 2011 at 11:52PM ESTsvetlana Sutter said the show is loosely based on hamlet, if he followed the plot exactly then there would be no point in watching anymore. I didn't think it was possible for me to hate Clay more than I already do, but when he dialed that number I had visceral reaction and wanted to kill him. I also can't say enough about Charlie Hunnam! He has become such an amazing actor during these four seasons that I can't believe he hasn't been nominated for anything. It's almost as if he himself has lived through what jax has. When he threatened Clay his hatred was so real it gave me chills.
November 2, 2011 at 12:00AM ESTMatt Fair enough. But I'm not into soap operas, and that's what SOA is becoming. As I said, I'd respect Sutter a lot more if he did something unexpected, something that pushes the plot along and doesn't feel like obvious manipulation. Let's just say that lately, Sutter is proving that he's no Shakespeare. Maybe he could learn a lesson or two from the Bard.
November 2, 2011 at 12:04AM ESTJB If Tara dies, then she (the actress) can go back to Mad Men as the only woman Don Draper loved but never could get.
November 2, 2011 at 12:16AM ESTtroopermsu Draper was sleeping with Rachel Menken. She broke it off after realizing he always runs away from his problems. She went so far as to call him a coward. He didn't "get" her to run away with him, but he certainly "got" her in the sense of how he has "gotten" all the other women he's been with.
November 2, 2011 at 2:30AM ESTVanessaG
November 1, 2011 at 11:24PM EST Reply to CommentI want season 2 goodness back. This season feels like Sutter's trying to see how much he can shock us with each new episode instead of giving us a good cohesive story. Just a little over half way through the season and I really don't care who dies at this point. They're all so stupid this season.
lydia I know. I completely agree. They're so out of character. Jax and Juice would never have done what they're doing in this season in season 2. I still hate Clay though. He's a complete idiot and everyone should know about all the crap he's done behind the clubs back. I miss season 2, but I still love the show.
September 26, 2012 at 7:18AM ESThydranc
November 1, 2011 at 11:30PM EST Reply to CommentTara is not Ophelia....Wendy was.
Is that character dead?
November 1, 2011 at 11:43PM ESTMatt No, she disappeared without further comment after Donna's funeral -- which felt rather contrived. Perhaps well eventually drowned (no doubt in her own vomit, due to a drug overdose -- gotta keep things current).
November 2, 2011 at 12:06AM ESTMatt "Eventually *learn that she* drowned," I meant.
November 2, 2011 at 12:07AM ESTBrian Wendy didnt die she was ran outta town by Gemma.
November 2, 2011 at 12:11AM ESTBradley Valentine This has always bugged me. While I’m happy they didn’t keep turning back to this annoying love triangle idea, seems like Drea DeMotto (sp?) could have been better used. I guess she was just flavor of the month casting and didn’t really fit the show? Still. Poof? Just like that?
November 2, 2011 at 3:35AM ESTtrinitygirl my understanding is that Drea was cast in something else and couldn't come back - I thought I read that Sutter wanted her, but she was under contract elsewhere? They mention her in the app this season - at the beginning there is a deleted scene between Jax and Gemma, where Jax mentions that Wendy officially gave custody of Abel to Tara while he was in prison. So she hasn't been forgotten completely. Also, to reiterate that KS has said several times that Wendy was Orphelia, not Tara.
November 2, 2011 at 4:35AM ESTLeo2 Trinitygirl - thanks for that info about Wendy=Orphelia. I don't follow KS's tweets or blog so I didn't know that. It just takes Tara being Orphelia out of play and that helps (sort of) trying to predict what might happen.
November 2, 2011 at 1:01PM ESTchitownskyline In one of the first appisodes for the iPhone/Droid a deleted scene from episode one informed us that Wendy gave custody of Abel to Tara. With more than a hint that she had no choice unless she wanted to deal with Gemma.
November 2, 2011 at 4:15PM ESTFrank I always assumed Opie was Ophelia.
November 2, 2011 at 5:30PM ESTkate
November 1, 2011 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentWhat was it exactly that Unser was going to do about Piney? I couldn't hear what he said.
gail I think he is going to deliver Piney's head to the club, as in sync with what the cartel did earlier
November 1, 2011 at 11:50PM ESTgail I think he is going to deliver Piney's head to the club, as in sync with what the cartel did earlier
November 1, 2011 at 11:50PM ESTDerek
November 1, 2011 at 11:35PM EST Reply to CommentI was waiting the whole episode for someone to tell Opie about Piney. I really enjoyed the episode, but how does that not happen here? Delaying Opie learning the news I think will take away from our reaction to it.
asd I was actually waiting for the same thing
November 4, 2011 at 11:34AM ESTAlex
November 1, 2011 at 11:37PM EST Reply to CommentI thought that Clay's decision to make the call at the end was more due to wanting to keep Jax in the club and close than it was about the letters anymore. Gemma doesn't know that Jax and Tara are trying to get out, after all, and it seems like Clay feels Jax only wants out because of Tara. At this point the letters are almost a red herring for him, he has to remove her as the obstacle to keeping his family with Gemma and Jax together...he did tell Gemma that everything he does is for her, maybe that's actually mostly truthful? And in that sense, Gemma's not wrong to believe in him, it would kill her if Jax actually got out and left Charming.
Matt You still believe Clay cares about Gemma and Jax? That's very generous of you. I've concluded that he's a sociopath, who's fundamentally incapable of truly caring about anyone. It feels like he's turned into a caricature of a supervillain.
November 2, 2011 at 12:13AM ESTchitownskyline I agree with that assessment of Clay's motive in officially ordering that hit. It's all about keeping Jax close through manipulation. But it also serves to tie up the loose end of the only other person who knows he killed JT. Its a 2fer special.
November 2, 2011 at 12:17AM ESTJB Clay is really stupid. You'd think after Jax's warning, he'd realize that if ANYTHING happened to Tara, he'd pin it on him. But no, he's not that smart.
November 2, 2011 at 12:21AM ESTAnd I think Clay's decision to use the phone to call the "exterminator" was triggered by Gemma's speech. Her "assuring him" that Tara wasn't going to be a problem only prodded him to believe that she didn't have the situation under control.
Leo2 Yeah I agree that Clay's main motive in getting rid of Tara is that he thinks it will keep Jax in the club, especially if Jax thinks that Tara is killed by an enemy of the club. And yeah it's a 2fer as well - Clay will never be happy until all worry about the letters coming out is over and that means Tara as well.
November 2, 2011 at 2:41AM ESTewmvv6
November 1, 2011 at 11:40PM EST Reply to CommentI agree with all those calling for Opie kicking some ass. Also, it seems to me that when planning a large scale ambush, it would be important to put a few guys on the cars so the ambushees could not just drive away from said ambush.
Fuzzbrain I agree, that whole ambush scene seemed cartoonishly reckless.
November 1, 2011 at 11:58PM ESTWith Clay being personally responsible for so many people attached to the club being dead, I can't buy Gemma sticking up for him anymore either. I really wish that she had got on board with Unser's plan to call in the sheriffs about Piney's murder. If that had happened though, the storyline would not be set in place for Jax & Tara to go off to Portland together in the next episode. Now that Jax, Tara, Gemma, Unser & Opie are all going to have violent reasons to want revenge (also Otto if we're keeping track) -- how much longer can they let Clay stay in power? At this rate, he's going to kill off the entire cast. Somebody needs to put the hurt on Clay soon or else the show is just going to become completely unbelievable.
Truck The show is already completely unbelievable. Once you lower your standard a bit it really becomes quite fun to watch. Just think of it as a dry comedy leading up to one explosive punchline in the season finales.
November 2, 2011 at 12:28AM ESTrusty4272 I agree Truck, I still enjoy the show but it has lost its credibility. I mean a biker who wears white sneakers???? comes on.
November 5, 2011 at 9:33PM ESTHISLOCAL Haha! I always comment on those white sneakers.
November 7, 2011 at 10:29AM ESTElaine DiSanto Glad I'm not the only one obsessing over those sneakers! I mention it every week, my husband is tired of hearing about it!!
November 12, 2011 at 10:02AM ESTJB
November 2, 2011 at 12:14AM EST Reply to CommentDespite some really great acting tonight (by the characters of Jax, Juice, Bobby and Unser) I am growing tired of this show. I've always been a fan, but something seems "missing" this season. And, I'm growing more and more impatient for characters like Clay and Gemma to get caught in their lies and punished for their crimes. Am I the only one that feels this way?
GMan This is about where I am with Sons of Anarchy. Casting of this show has always gotten an A+, but there's too much in the way of overly intricate plot machinations and sheer character stupidity that, even as I've come to accept this show as a live action graphic novel, I grow weary.
November 2, 2011 at 12:23AM ESTThis show's wheels should have been slowed down about 2/3s. Instead they are always turning the shock value nob to 11 to the point where I just don't feel much any more.
BlueMoxy Then don't watch. AND, don't seek out a comment forum totally unrelated to the show. That's alot of work to for hating the show.
November 2, 2011 at 2:39PM ESTggreenw
November 2, 2011 at 12:26AM EST Reply to CommentAlan,
I thought the same thing about the cartel wanting to meet with the Irish, but that doesn't address the fact that Samcro has been performing a particularly clandestine service for them by driving their blow up the coast. Also, where does that leave the Mayans if the cartel cuts them out? The story was more interesting when the Mayans, Niners, and Samcro were all at odds so maybe that's where Sutter is heading with the IRA plot. Anyways, thanks for the recap. I love reading your thoughts every week after I watch the show!
Matt
November 2, 2011 at 12:40AM EST Reply to CommentBy the way, is anyone half expecting Juice to resolve the Lincoln Potter problem *and* his own guilt by going jihadi on the command center, perhaps in the season finale? It seems Juice is pretty much screwed all the way around, and if he's willing to end it all (despite his assurances to the contrary tonight), why not exact revenge on the man who ruined his life -- and perhaps in some sense redeem himself -- while doing so?
Leo2 I think that Juice is going to be the one to "save" the club and somehow screw Potter in the process, though I'm not sure how. Whether Juice survives or not is another question. It will be interesting to see Roosevelt's part in this, because I think by the end of the season he will be very much the new Deputy Chief Hale character - helping the Sons only when he knows those against them are "worse."
November 2, 2011 at 2:47AM ESTdylanfan
November 2, 2011 at 1:24AM EST Reply to CommentMaybe I am a terrible person but after tonight's episode, following @sutterink on twitter might be enough for me without having to actually watch SOA
JC
November 2, 2011 at 2:04AM EST Reply to CommentAn average episode IMO. Good moments - Jax talking the cartel out of wasting the Niners was a great scene - but everything else was predictable. OF COURSE Potter was going to manipulate Juice into one more round of betrayal. From the second Luis handed Clay that phone I knew the episode would end with Clay dialing it. And from the moment Tara told Gemma about the Oregon trip, I spent the rest of the episode waiting to see how they would contrive to pass that info to Clay. As for Chibs, that was a huge disappointment. All that suspicion, all those shots of him looking askance at Juice, and all we get is "I had a tough kill back in the day so I understand what he's going through"? Really!? There better be more to that.
Kk
November 2, 2011 at 2:31AM EST Reply to CommentAlan I love your reviews and read basically all of them, but I have been sadly disappointed in your view on Sons almost all season.
Gemma is not being stupid. Her entire life is Clay, Jax, and the club. She has admittedly turned an eye to things Clay has done because of her blind love for him. At the end of the episode she reminds him of everything she's done and kept secret for him. When she tells him she went to the cabin and that she understands why he did it, she's basically giving him piney, but he has to give her Tara. She really believes, at the very least, he loves her enough and has put her through enough, that he can actually give her this one thing. If she believes nothing else, she believes that at the end of the day, Clay would put her first. What Gemma is unaware of, I think, is just how out of control Clay actually is, how big of a hole he has put himself in. I don't think that's plot manipulation of making a character dumb, I think it's unconditional love to the extreme, which is beyond consistent with her character from day 1.
What I think this conversation will allow to happen at the end of the season I'd Gemma killing Clay. Kurt Sutter said at the beginning of the season on his blog that the season finale will feel like an end of the series, but will really bring about a whole new dynamic to explore. I have always believed that meant Clay would be dead by the end of the season. Gemma has now basically given Clay an ultimatum and when she finds out he completely ignored her plea (and God forbid if anything actually happened to Jax or one of the boys) it will be the last straw. Jax will want to kill Clay himself when he finds out everything that Clay has done (killed his father because he wanted to end guns and tried/succeeded in killing Tara), which will only give Gemma more motivation (saving Jax from killing Clay himself.)
chitownskyline I like this assessment. At times I have been severely frustrated with some of the choices made by the men and women of SAMCRO this season. Yet I agree that most of them have been very much in-character with who they have been portrayed as since day one of the show. I think part of what makes this season frustrating is when the character choices feel most real-to-life. When these men and women act and behave in ways that are most conistent with how a "real" person would act that's when I find myself being the most frustrated...which is what I love about the show. Because seriously how frustrating can real life be when the secrets we try to keep are so deep and dark, and our number one priority is saving our own ass. These characters are representing narcissim, sociopathy, and antisocial personalities to the max. We can't ever truly expect to understand why they do what they do because our brains aren't wired like theirs.
November 2, 2011 at 4:36PM ESTThe parts that feel less than real...a shoot out between rival cartels in broad daylight that blow a hole in the side of a building with an RPG and no one gets caught even though we know SAMCRO is undersurveliance....well those are the things that I just say "i'm going to suspend my level of disbelief here because the rest of the show is so good." :) Those moments don't frustrate me, they just make me shake my head and say, "really Sutter? You expect me to believe they got away with that? Sure, fine, whatever."
bin These two comments pretty well reflect my feelings about the characters and my assessment of their motivations. I don't see contrived stupidity; I see human failing. I must live in a world peopled by incredibly "stupid" people because I don't know a world of folk who make relationship and life decisions based in clear end-achievement, logical thinking. The stupid people in my world are buffeted and hampered by damage and frailty, self-delusion, denial, unrealistic hope, need, pain, and all the seemingly unbelievable machinations that arise from the avoidance of pain and unacceptable truths. I love many a person whose behavior and choices often makes me shake my head and pose the enduring question, "what were they thinking?" That's my world view. I always thought I operated in a world of complex humanity, but by the measure of many here, apparently I just know, (and am),unrealistically stupid people.
November 4, 2011 at 12:26PM ESTI've been a pretty devoted Alan reader for several years and still track with his insights for many shows, but I've gotten to the point where I just don't see the show in the same frame and find reading the reviews and many of the comments very unsatisfying. I seem to be operating from another world-view for which much of the heart of this show rings very true, tortured and twisted as it is.
The part of the show that has never done much for me is the "action" part of things. For me it feels almost like it's thrown in their to keep the 18-49 year old males happy ... the necessary weekly shoot-em-up, blow-it-up, kick the shit out of someone sequence that keeps the testosterone level up for club doings and viewer satisfaction. Otherwise, it IS a soap-opera at heart as is all serial story-telling about human hearts and souls and the love, joy, pain, and evil that fuels living with one another. The difference is in the execution, nuance and level of cheese factor - at least that's how I see it. So anyway, for me the action stuff and it's lack of realistic reaction or consequence has always been pretty eye-rolling and I accept it as part and parcel of the larger story.
I feel these characters, even Clay. I loath him, but I feel him. I've never liked Gemma; I've always found her ridiculously over-blown. She does stupid, reckless things that make situations worse and yet she's always viewed on a strange pedestal of some kind, but I still feel her in all her bombastic pushiness and dry-mouthed fear. For me it's not whether I "understand" them or approve of them or like them, it's whether or not I can feel them and connect to them, right or wrong. That's what allows me to suspend disbelief organically, without effort. I think once that gets broken and I start weighing and measuring everyone's actions and motivations against the mechanics of the writing, then something has become seriously wrong.
So far that hasn't happened for me and I'm happy for it because the show, the characters and the wonderful acting still captures my imagination and lets me leave the workings of it all in other people's hands -- hands I still trust.
troopermsu
November 2, 2011 at 2:32AM EST Reply to CommentWhen I saw the title of the show, 'Kiss', for some reason I thought of the band KISS. "Pussy Doctor" sounds like the title of a song that KISS might have written.
Timm S Funny. And yes, it is much like a song name of theirs.
November 2, 2011 at 11:05AM ESTLeo2
November 2, 2011 at 3:01AM EST Reply to CommentThought it was a pretty good episode although man there are a lot of balls spinning in the air. Nothing new for this show this season. My best guess is that the season will end with Clay dead (at Gemma's hand), the Potter situation resolved somehow via Juice, and Tara and Jax separated (either by her being somewhere else or dead) and Jax leading the club.
Interesting that Georgie did not kill LuAnn - wonder who it was.
Also interesting to know that Jax will be with Tara when the hit goes down. Her fate is so up in the air. On one hand it would be very dramatic and real to have her killed. But on the other hand there is a very soap opera-ish feel to the show and it just seems like Jax and Tara will be together at the end. She and his kids seem to be the ones who keep him motivated to change his life.
sepinwall I don't think we know whether Potter was telling the truth about Georgie and Luann. His goal is to convince Big Otto that Bobby (or someone else in the club) killed Luann and the club covered it up. Otto has no way of checking on that alibi.
November 2, 2011 at 12:12PM ESTLeo2 It could be that Potter was just lying about Georgie having an alibi, but it just rang true to me. I think Potter could've gotten to Otto by having Otto know the truth - that not only is the man that he thinks murdered Luann still alive and Bobby lied, but the club is now even in alliance/working with with the guy.
November 2, 2011 at 12:58PM ESTLeo2 Meant to add, I think Tara's fate is up in the air, but once I heard Tara was bringing along the nanny, I figured she was going to be toast. If she's the only casualty it would be an easy out, though maybe too easy.
November 2, 2011 at 1:22PM ESTNannys/home-healthcare workers don't have a very long lifespan on this show.
Huell Goodman Didn't they establish earlier in the season, when they were torturing Georgie, that they did actually need him alive for some business reason?
November 3, 2011 at 7:59AM ESTAlso, my impression was that it was well established that Georgie did kill Luanne as a result of their porn turf battle. Either that, or the skinheads offed her to punish the club. Am I missing something?
Perhaps there's a twist coming. Say Stahl killed Luanne as part of a plot to divide the club, but she died before it could be carried out. Now, Potter has some prior connection to Stahl and in order to avenge her death is picking up this plan where she left off.
Leo2 Huell, you didn't miss anything. Georgie seemed like the obvious suspect when Luann was killed, and it was only much later that this was put in doubt. And yeah the club did keep Georgie alive for business reasons, but from Otto's perspective that would be a crappy reason.
November 3, 2011 at 9:40AM ESTJeez, I almost caught myself saying that the moral thing for them to have done was kill Georgie. This show can turn your moral compass on its head.
tyler_adams
November 2, 2011 at 3:07AM EST Reply to CommentI'd like to see more from Opie, Chibs, Juice and some of the others and find out what they really think of all the crap that Clay is doing and putting the club through for his own financial gain. We've already seen what Jax, Bobby, & Piney think of the whole deal. Piney ended up dead because of it.
For the first 3 seasons, I always kinda liked Clay but during this season I've come to hate him. He doesn't give a damn about the club anymore. All he cares about is his own financial gain for when he can't be president anymore and is retired from the club. He doesn't even care about Jax or Tara or Jax's kids anymore and I'm really thinking that he doesn't even care about Gemma. The only person Clay gives a shit about is his own damn self. I sure hope Jax does the right thing and takes care of Clay like he said he would do. Ya he'd be doing exactly what Clay did by killing JT but in this case Clay deserves what he's got coming to him and Clay bring his self-destruction demise or upon himself.
J Would love to see Jax and Opie take out Clay together for all he's done to both of them. Op obviously has more reason than anyone to want Clay dead, and hopefully Jax will eventually find out what Clay did to John and is trying to do to Tara. I'd actually believe Jax staying in the club after that if him and Opie were the new leadership and Clay was out once and for all.
November 2, 2011 at 3:34PM ESTConnor
November 2, 2011 at 3:13AM EST Reply to CommentI thought nobody was more cynical than me, but I have to say...I'm surprised at the reaction to this season. I have seen nothing out of character from Clay, Gemma, Juice, anybody. Where most shows shy away from the dark side of their characters, I have seen most of the SOA characters cross boundaries this season that even this show had considered taboo. Clay trying to harm Tara, Jax working to get out, Juice killing Miles...Im just at a loss as to what else people expected. It seems to me this season is delivering dramatically on all fronts...
troopermsu Agreed
November 2, 2011 at 10:26AM ESTt sill I'm cynical sooo ... Jax has made it clear all he wants is his family and out of Charming. So, it's out of character for him not to just split right now to keep Tara and his kids from having their heads delivered in a duffel bag. Contrarily, he went from the Prince to Boy King when he saved Leroy and his crew -- and showed the cartel enforcer that Jax can think and actually help the Galindo cartel gain control in Nor Cal. The list of people who could kill Clay now includes the Galindo cartel because he's shown them he's a moron incapable of doing more to help them than mule drugs and sell guns. Jax is an actual asset ... who wants nothing to do with them.
November 4, 2011 at 1:49AM ESTJohn
November 2, 2011 at 3:16AM EST Reply to CommentI've been critical of this season, but I think I liked this episode more than most did. I think it was probably the best episode of the season. The scenes with Jax (convincing the cartel to let the Niners live and especially his response to the "Dr. Pussy" line) were excellent. And at least all the characters' actions actually made some kind of sense for the reasons Alan laid out above. I agree that Gemma is almost as despicable as her husband, and the only time I've ever had any sympathy for her was when she got raped in Season 2. I wouldn't mind if she and Clay got killed at the same time. And as soon as she mentioned that Tara was going to Oregon to Clay, I knew he would make the phone call immediately after. And how about Clay looking her right in the eye and lying to her right before he ordered the hit? He's maybe the most despicable character on TV right now. I'm interested to see if the show really has the guts to kill Tara now. Given how they've handled most of these situations (i.e. Juice), I don't think so. Clay doesn't know that Jax is going with her, and I suspect that he will foil the assassination attempt. It will be interesting to see the fallout from that and from Piney's death as well. Clay has to go.
bfish I agree that Clay is the worst of the worst. There have been a lot of really "bad" characters on TV shows who I enjoyed watching, but am way past that point with Clay. He needs to be gone for the show to be worth continuing to follow in future seasons, since Sutter has said he intends to go for 3 more (and we already know there will be a season 5).
November 2, 2011 at 6:52AM ESTFor me, the bar for "hated character" was set by Namond's mother on The Wire season 4. Clay has managed to eclipse her by a mile.
Lillith
November 2, 2011 at 7:11AM EST Reply to CommentThis episode was the weakest one of the season for me.. There was stuff I liked, but too many loose ends. Now normally I'll just go along for the ride ...there were plot holes in The Shield every once in a while, or storylines that kind of trailed off, seemingly because the writers realized they needed to focus on something else. However, I LOVED the show, was totally addicted to it, the cast, the writing, and would let things slide. There's periods of time on SOA where I've felt like, in the words of Ronnie Gardocki, "The wheels are starting to come off this whole goddamn thing". I know it's an ensemble show, but where was Opie this week? If Tig was around, did he have any lines? Both of them are more than just recurring characters. Didn't see any of the prospects, not that I really missed them. I also wish they wouldn't quit teasing us for what seems like the 4th week in a row that Kozy was 'up in the Tacoma chapter, but should be back in Charming any day'. I know Kenny Johnson is on Prime Suspect, and it's reassuring that the show AND the club mentions him, but I wish they could say "he's gonna be gone another few weeks" instead of "any day now".
Also, I get that Gemma talked/charmed Unser into not getting cops involved, but what did they do with his body? Just leave it there until they decided things had settled down? I think I remember Wayne saying sometime to Gemma along the lines of "I'll handle this for now" (also a bad sign... I usually will watch the episode twice-- I think I watched "Marked With an X" over three times-- but this week had no urge to revisit anything), did he plan to drag Piney off and dispose of the body? I've also run out of energy to keep all the politics and players in the whole cartel/gang storyline straight. Ambush, drive-by, shoot-out, body parts dumped off--seems like every week there's a new complication and gang faction brought in... I kept it straight at the start of the season, now my brain just says the hell with it as long as I get the general idea. When I'm motivated, I can get it straight, I managed to keep whom Vic Mackey was telling what lie to from week-to-week, as well as all the things the Strike Team had to juggle frantically to keep from being killed or tossed in jail. Lately on SOA it's not worth the effort, at least for now. Seems like the One-Niners just got brought in this week so things could get as out of hand as possible and to have bullets flying and small explosions, plus another couple random deaths. I doubt that was the desired effect. I always dig The Shield cross-over references, but WE GET IT! THE SONS ARE IN WAY OVER THEIR HEADS! THE CARTEL DEAL WAS A MISTAKE! Which, by the way, was a message we received loud and clear many episodes ago.
I agree, poor Otto has REALLY paid for his loyalty to the club. Another thing that I rolled my eyes at was Potter's theory to Otto, about Bobby killing Luann because 'he was worried someone would find out". Yes, that's usually why men murder married women they are sleeping with, to keep things low profile. As if that's the first option they choose. Not that the whole scene between Otto and Potter wasn't a great one, and important to this storyline, but when he claimed that was Bobby's motive for murder, the scene almost temporarily screeched to a halt for me. Not to mention, someone should have brought up the "prison clause" to someone by now. I know Bobby couldn't tell Otto 'well, I caught her skimming from the club, the next thing I know, she was blowing me', but he could have found a tactful way to mention the prison clause. Also, Bobby dumb enough to have unprotected sex with a retired porn star? Well, maybe the DNA test w/semen results is just a bluff, but if they established that, I missed it. Otto does have a right to be pissed off that Bobby lied to his face about something that serious.
If this season doesn't end with Gemma fucking Clay up for the hit on Tara (whether it is successful or not--though I think the odds are even she'll be killed off, possibly with one of the boys as a casualty), it'll really seem like a cop-out to me. Maybe Gemma will be able to somehow convince Clay that she suspects nothing, then puts a VERY different drug into the syringes that she uses to inject his hand, resulting in them being destroyed for life and causing him agony as payback for breaking Jax's heart. They've used the 'outside crisis/threat uniting the Sons to overcome tensions within' as a solution as many times as they can, at least for now.
I'm surprised I had all those complaints in me after I started typing I'm not one of those posters that goes out of their way to find flaws in an episode so they can bitch about not buying it, etc. Hope next week is an improvement, because I love this show, and the season really had me enthralled up until Piney threatening Clay last week as if he had a death wish. All the scenes with Juice were amazing, and I never thought Potter would start using honey instead of vinegar to get Juice to co-operate. If he'd only come clean with the club, even play dumb about how he recently found out one of his parents were black, this wouldn't have gotten so ugly. Now it seems like it's too late to come clean with Chibs, though at least he got a really good cry on his shoulder. I keep wanting to just give him a big hug, and have NO idea how he's going to get out of this mess, and I really don't want to see him go. I just hope it doesn't seem contrived. I also really liked Bobby making that sarcastic comment to Clay, then filling Jax in.
I see Alan and many others are really sick of Gemma after this episode, so I'll chime in w/my opinion. I still love Gemma. I winced to see her use the way Wayne feels about her to control him, but that was probably all she could come up with on short notice. The only thing about the slow kiss that bothered me was that I thought they had more of a father-daughter thing going, starting when he helped her after the brutal gang-rape in season 2. If I'm not mistaken, it was only this season, when Clay made a shitty comment to Unser about him being in love with Gemma that it was revealed. Actually, the only time the writers really let me down with her was in season 3 when she held a gun to that baby's head. It got her the intel they needed to find Abel, but it just seemed clumsy and contrived enough to yank me out of the episode. Other than that, she's one of my favorite female characters on TV. I may be biased because I'm a longtime Katey Sagal fan, but I love Gemma Teller--especially when she does something I wish I could get away with, like casually pulling out her gun when that woman yelled and honked at her so she could have Gemma's parking place. She's still interesting, sexy, tough as nails but loves her family (though maybe by now just her son and grandkids), that she'd take a bullet for them in a heartbeat. She was one scary bitch during the majority of season one (though I cheered when she smashed that 'sweetbutt' skank's face in with a skateboard), and I remember assuming when the season ended that she'd orchestrated John Teller's murder, and Clay just kind of went along with her. A lot of people throw this threat around a lot on boards (though I doubt many make good on it), and I've never said it before, but here it is. If they killed Gemma off, I probably would stop watching the show. Long live the queen.
Three more episodes left- and the title given for the season finale (on the IMDB if you want to look it up) sounds pretty epic. I also get the feeling that the title for next week's episode doesn't look optimistic for Clay.
Leo2 I think we'll see soon enough what Unser does to mistakenly "protect" Gemma and the club - it sounds like he's going to make it look like LS killed Piney and keep the "Clay killed Piney" a secret for a while longer. But who knows, maybe he will defy Gemma for the first time.
November 2, 2011 at 10:58AM ESTAs to Kozik, remember it's only been 3 weeks since the guys got out of the joint, hence the comments about him being back any day because it would be the case in the series world.
As to Juice, I still have problems with his loyalty to SOA after his believing that he would be kicked out (if not worse) if they found out he was half-black. I can understand Potter's now getting him on board by promising that he will protect the guys in the club that are his "family" and good friends - but that's not what Potter's doing (and he still has to avenge the killing of the federal agent by the sons in the season opener.) Instead Potter is telling Juice that by his coming forward, the benefit will be that SOA as an organization will still be able to survive - why would Juice care so much about that anymore? He's going to sacrifice himself and his best friends for the good of an organization that wouldn't let him in because of his own father's ethnicity? Doesn't work for me.
rcade I don't know where people are seeing a father-daughter thing between Unser and Gemma. Drayton Callie's two years younger than Katey Segal and both characters are in their 50s. Since they started exploring their history in the aftermath of Gemma's rape, it was pretty clear that Unser has feelings for her that go beyond friendship.
November 2, 2011 at 11:20AM ESTLisa @Leo2: I do think Unser may defy Gemma for the first time. The way he backed out of her kiss, and couldn't even really look at her, made me think that he is keeping some things from her. It could be the just details of those letters or it could be more. I kind of hope he does blow the whistle.
November 2, 2011 at 12:06PM ESTSazzyMCH 4 eps left. That was Ep 9 last night and it's a 13 episode season......
November 2, 2011 at 5:18PM ESTtrinitygirl The title of episode 413 has not been released anywhere that I can find it. Epi 412 does have a scary sounding title but the finale is not there yet. I always thought that Uncer was older than Gemma. There is a scene way back in season 2, between him and Tara in the hospital chapel, where he says he has known her since she was ten years old, and for some reason I thought he was about 16 at the time. So I've always thought it was more a brother/sister relationship than anything else. But definitely family, and I imagine that once he crossed the line to protect her, that all got a lot stronger. And now the question is whether he's all the way gone, or whether he'll try to make a stand before he dies. Riveting.
November 3, 2011 at 12:24AM ESTt sill Poor Otto? Wow! He's a ruthless killer.
November 4, 2011 at 1:53AM ESTDoes anyone in the club, so wildly loyal to SAMCRO, see where Otto is ... see that the loyalty doesn't pay off in the end?
Unser's a dying man who feels he sold his soul and his badge to Clay and SAMCRO when he was the police chief. He wants to die with as clear a conscience as he can, it seems. But ... he's historically proven he's not bright and easily coerced into doing whatever Clay and Gemma want.
pete
November 2, 2011 at 8:10AM EST Reply to CommentI found this episode to be a disappointment, no surprises, they telegraphed it all, you could sit and say now this is going to happen through the entire program. I am getting sick of Gemma and Clay is so digusting...
Susan
November 2, 2011 at 8:48AM EST Reply to CommentI'm just not feeling it this season, there is something very off about it. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm just so annoyed with all these characters and yes, they come across as idiots.
Sutter really needs to give me a rule book on what will and won't get you kicked out of the club. So much for family, your brother is hurting and your first thought is ''he has to go''
I really missed Ope this ep. When is he going to find out abuot his father?
AC
November 2, 2011 at 9:27AM EST Reply to CommentAre we sure Chibs is in the dark about Juice's real motivation for hanging himself? That scene last week seemed to confirm his suspicions (all the looks etc.), so he screams in despair, but then sort of comforts Juice. I just think he's trying to protect him by not letting Jax in on everything, just enough to get Juice sidelined.
Lisa I like this possibility a LOT. I don't think Chibbs is stupid and I do think he suspects more than he is letting on. He cares for Juice and doesn't want to see him killed, which is what would happen immediately if he revealed all of his suspicions. Jax has a lot going on right now and this isn't his first priority so he doesn't think too much about it at the moment. Good theory!
November 2, 2011 at 12:02PM ESTHuell Goodman I totally agree. Chibs knows more then he's letting on to Jax.
November 3, 2011 at 8:08AM ESTDave H.
November 2, 2011 at 10:02AM EST Reply to CommentDoes anyone else think that Roosevelt is going to turn on Potter and become an Unser? It seems like he is starting to see that the Sons are good for the town and that Potter is not really good. But, that will probably happen next season, if there is a next season.
Also, concerning Unser, he said he would take care of it, but we didn't see him do it. Maybe he's not as dumb as you think and he's actually going to make it look like Clay did it or just leave the scene alone and call Opie after removing the photo with the LS on it.
One of the grand kids is going to get killed and Jax is going to take out the "exterminator." Then Tara and Jax will have their Tony Montana moment, "Whenever I want to get out it keeps dragging me back in."
Timm S Good comment. But that was Michael Corleone in GODFATHER III talking to his sister, not Tony Montana. But yes, it was Al Pacino overacting, so I understand the confusion.
November 2, 2011 at 11:12AM ESTrcade The Sons are good for Charming? Surely their partnership with the Galindo cartel will dispel the notion that they're a beneficial force in their crappy California town.
November 2, 2011 at 11:14AM ESTchitownskyline I think Roosevelt will never think crime is better for a town than a crime fighter. However, I do beleive that he is not okay with the ethics of how Potter plays the game. If I had to guess I would say Roosevelt will attempt to find some above board way to extricate himself and Juice from this situation with Potter while not doing anything to overtly thwart the actual investigation. He seems like a good cop who wants to do things the right way. Besides we do not need one more person to turn to corruption on this show.
November 2, 2011 at 4:56PM ESTJedyKnight
November 2, 2011 at 10:02AM EST Reply to Commenti'm thinking the last scenes were set up so Jax is present when the hit goes down, saves his family.. after that i would like him to come back fully understanding it had to be Clay, but KS has done so many plot twists in Clay's favor, that it may turn out that Jax still believes it was the Lobos.. the same with Piney, when the club finds out Piney is dead, Opie, Jax and Elvis SHOULD know it had to be Clay, but some or maybe all of them are going to "believe" it may have been the Cartel's enemies, all this so KS can keep delaying the outing of Clay as the Club's biggest and oldest villian.. i like SOA, and the season has had great moments, but if the season doesnt end with Clay removed from SAMCRO (either dead, gravely injured, exiled or in jail), i think im going to drop the show, or at least my week to week viewing, there are some stories you can only take so far. (also can cause me to drop the show, Tara's dying, which would drive Jax to such a dark place, that viewing the show would be just enabling suffering-porn) :(
Leo2 I think it's hard to imagine Clay being gone because the conflict between Jax and Clay has been the heart of the story since the very beginning. But if KS says the end of the season will feel like a new beginning (or however he said it) then Clay should go.
November 2, 2011 at 11:01AM ESTTimm S
November 2, 2011 at 11:57AM EST Reply to CommentNot sure where the hate is coming from, but I really enjoyed this episode, both for what it was and what it sets into motion going forward. In fact, my only gripe, and it deals with my increasing disdain for the Queen Mother (Katey Sagal) and anything she does, is the scene where she's "crying" over Piney's death. If you can't actually cry (i.e. with those "tears" that occur when real people cry), DON'T DO A SCENE WHERE YOU CRY! Ok, enough of that.
Thoughts on this week's episode:
Aside from the actress portraying her, it worked to have Gemma be the one who found Piney at the cabin, and to call Unser for help. She knows she can control him, and although Unser knew he being manipulated, I agree that he just can't say no to her. That was a sad scene for Unser, just broke my heart to see him know he was being played for the fool and yet be powerless to say no. That was a real human moment, and it felt real.
Jax was great throughout the episode, and I don't know which scene he stole more, the one in the warehouse saving the 1-9ers, or the one where he told Clay how it was. Both were great, and Hunnam played the hell out of them.
Opie was too conspicuous by his absence with all that was going on and the club's need for muscle. I get that it's a budgetary thing (most of the time) with guys being available, etc, and there were a LOT of extras in this one with the 1-9ers and the cartel in the house, but this was not the episode to have him and the prospects absent. Far too noticeable, and I don't think anybody said anything about where they were. If they did, I didn't hear it. Opie was at breakfast, right?
The stuff with Juice was beautifully played and orchestrated by Potter, bringing him into the command center and making him an (albeit unwitting) accomplice with the AUSA. His immediate recognition about what they did to him and his reaction going after Roosevelt was a great scene. And Potter hopping on the table to proverbially and literally stay above the fray was a very funny moment. Well done.
And I've said it before, but Clay cannot be written off the show, and he's going nowhere soon. He's a wounded animal, much like Shane was on THE SHIELD, and with him at the center of the conflict the A-plot continues to deliver the gravity it needs. I hate him, too, due to the lack of conflict he's displaying (very unlike Shane), but I like the tension he brings to every interaction.
To Alan's question about Romeo wanting to cut out the middleman in the Sons/Irish, he might want to, but I don't think the Irish would do that. It serves their interests to be able to sell the guns, but they don't want to be in bed with the cartel. If Clay messes this up, they'll just find another sympathetic source stateside to hop in bed with them.
Again, really enjoyed this week. Still a little disappointing not to see if Chuckie's Chili won a prize at the county fair for originality of flavor or something. I've made chili twice since last week's episode.
Jess
November 2, 2011 at 12:10PM EST Reply to CommentOn the topic of LuAnn... would it surprise anyone if we found out Clay was behind her death? He *did* tell Jax that he wanted the Sons out of the porn business...
svetlana I've never even thought that Clay had anything to do with Luann's death, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense. He probably had mire motive than anyone. Great point.
November 2, 2011 at 1:16PM ESTchitownskyline I'm glad you said that because I have totally been thinking that same thing! What if Clay killed Luann...It's been hard to wrap my head around until this season when we finally get to see just how ruthless his nature is.
November 2, 2011 at 5:04PM ESTDaniel Jax more or less accuses Clay when Luann died. At least he made a comment about "letting a SAMCRO member's old lady get killed", which was about Donna.
November 5, 2011 at 5:55AM ESTSkeptic
November 2, 2011 at 1:01PM EST Reply to CommentI have many questions about this show:
What happened to the tape that Alvarez's ex-gang member made of Hale incriminating himself in murder, arson, etc?
Why did the Feds believe Stahl's ridiculous story about the killing of her fellow ATF agent. girlfriend by "3 Mexicans" who somehow disappeared into thin air? Why was this killing never thoroughly investigated?
Why has Maureen never contacted Jax to gauge his reaction to the content of JT's letters? Wouldn't she want JT's death avenged somehow?
I'd love to see Clay end up in the condition of Tio from "Breaking Bad"--helpless and filled with rage and regret he can't express.
I've lost all respect for Gemma--she just didn't seem like the type to sacrifice all integrity for blind love of Clay; and allow her beloved son and grandsons to suffer the horrific consequences.
battyward
November 2, 2011 at 1:48PM EST Reply to CommentJust a thought about Gemma's final scene with Clay -- I'm not sure she's as dumb as some folks here seem to think she is. That wasn't a speech of unquestioning loyalty and devotion, it was a fist in a velvet glove. That was an ultimatum to Clay, a declaration of the line she will not tolerate him crossing. She loves him, but she is not blind. Just as she did with JT/Clay, she will choose her side based on what she thinks is best for the club and her family, which now not only means Jax, but also her grandchildren. Calling on that hit (however it plays out) effectively seals Clay's fate. Gemma's support was pretty all he had left, and when she finds out how he's betrayed her this time . . . I'm betting hell hath no fury.
stb128
November 2, 2011 at 9:19PM EST Reply to CommentI know its kit-picky, but was I the only one shocked by the crappy tactics used by the cartel in the ambush. Isn't it pretty textbook to place people in covert positions along escape routes. Admittedly, they blew a hole in the wall, but shouldn't someone have been covering the parking lot.
Robert That was the only thing that I didn't like about this episode. There were supposed to be 3 dozen of Galindo's men, plus a mixed crew of SOA/Mayan cuts, and LS some how gets away, losing only what, 2-3 guys? BS, they outnumbered them 3:1, no way they get out that easy without more casualties.
November 3, 2011 at 4:34AM ESTA few other thoughts:
-Am I the only one who thinks the biggest shocker will be finding out that Bobby actually killed Luann? I haven't worked out the reasoning, but Sutter always manages to play against our expectations. In Kurt Sutter, I trust.
-I'm not entirely convinced that Tara will die. I can easily see one of his children getting killed in the cross fire by mistake.
-I'm also not sure Clay will die either. He may be put out temporarily, but I think he'll ultimately get the hand surgery that was suggested in the season premiere and rule his club for at least another season.
Overall, it was decent episode with a lot of strong performances. I enjoyed it.
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