Review: 'Game of Thrones' - 'A Man Without Honor': Horse and hound

Jaime has a plan, Theon hunts for the Stark Boys and Jon Snow gets led astray

<p>Emilia Clarke and Iain Glen in &quot;Game of Thrones.&quot;</p>

Emilia Clarke and Iain Glen in "Game of Thrones."

Credit: Paul Schiraldi/HBO

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A review of tonight's "Game of Thrones" coming up just as soon as I meet a literate stonemason...

"It's a good thing I am who I am. I'd have been useless at anything else." -Jaime

Jaime Lannister the man without honor who provides this episode with its title, makes his first appearance since the season 2 premiere, and is reintroduced in what seems at first to be a surprisingly leisurely, plotless scene in a season that's had to bounce quickly from character to character, subplot to subplot, continent to continent. As the Kingslayer indulges in nostalgia with his distant cousin Alton, it becomes clear well before Alton's face is caved in that Jaime is playing to the poor guy's vanity in order to effect his escape. Yet even if he doesn't remember that joust quite as well as Alton does — it was another day at the office for him, compared to the greatest day in this forgotten man's life — you can tell that he's sincere in appreciating the value of a good squire, and of a man getting a chance to do what he was meant to do best. Jaime Lannister wasn't put into this world to be a squire, or a prisoner, or a politician. He's a stone killer, and no other role suits him quite so well.

And in noting how terrible he is at anything else, Jaime sets up the theme for this episode — and, really, for this entire season — in which one person after another is placed into a position for which they are ill-equipped.

Jon Snow's misadventures north of The Wall continue, as Ygritte zeroes in on one of our man's many emotional weak spots and puts on a ruthless (and very entertaining) full frontal flirting assault, throwing him off his game long enough to make a break for it — conveniently right at a moment when their wandering has taken them into the path of a bunch of her wildling comrades in arms. And all of her teasing and taunting and cajoling — and Jon's shaky response to same — suggests once again that, deep down, Jon Snow fears that being in the Night's Watch (and all the restrictions that come with that oath) isn't what he was meant to do.

Theon Greyjoy, meanwhile, is in over his head and is unfortunately at the point where the only direction he can travel is deeper and deeper into his own mess. He could have sided with the Starks over the Greyjoys, and while I understand why he made the call he did, this is a disaster. Bran and Rickon are on the run, it's unclear whether his sister's forces will make it to Winterfell before the force Robb sent to reclaim the stronghold arrives, and Theon's men are already beginning to question his leadership. So he beats one half to death (with Finchy's silent approval) and then burns to death the poor farm kids(*) who had the bad luck to have Rickon leave one of his walnut shells behind. And what makes all of this extra painful is that, unlike the mad king Joffrey or some of our other characters to whom cruelty comes as second nature, you can tell that Theon has to think before he acts, and that this isn't easy for him. He's set himself on a course where he's damned, and he can't get off it, but it still troubles him.

(*) At least, I'm assuming it's the poor farm kids. Though the charred condition of the bodies creates the illusion of it being Bran and Rickon dead — not only for us, but for the people of Winterfell he needs to keep under his sway.

Over in Qarth, we get an answer to the Case of the Missing Dragons, who unsurprisingly were taken by Warlock Dean Pelton(**), who has now collaborated with Xaro Xhoan Ducksauce(***) to bump off the rest of the Thirteen and seize control of the greatest city that ever was. Earlier in the episode, Dany gets high-handed with Jorah, objecting to his familiar manner even as she's lamenting that she has almost no one to trust, and few who trust her. Now her dragons are in the hands of another, her latest benefactor has apparently been working against her, and she's down to Jorah and one bodyguard. Dany may be meant to rule Westeros, but the seven kingdoms seem further and further away all the time.

(**) Hat-tip to Dan Fienberg.

(***) Hat-tip to Andy Greenwald and Jenifer Braun.

At Harrenhal, Arya is again realizing she's not so good at being an undercover operative, as Tywin easily sees through each layer of her assumed identity. (He'd be easier to hate if he wasn't so damn smart, you know?) And at King's Landing, big sister Sansa gets her first period, putting her one step closer to her one-time dream of being queen and producing little princes and princesses. Of course, her dream didn't involve being wed to the sadistic monster who murdered her father — a monster who's becoming so horrible that even Cersei is finding it hard to apologize for him.(****) She tries to get Sansa to recalibrate her expectations and priorities, and to focus on protecting the children she and Joffrey will produce.

(****) Leading to a fantastic, unexpectedly tender brother/sister scene with Tyrion. These two hate each other too much for any real affection, but you could tell that Tyrion felt his sister's pain for once by the end of their conversation.

Right before Xaro takes care of all Family business with the Thirteen, he tells the Spice King that, "Those in the margins often come to control the center, and those in the center make room for them, willingly or otherwise."

That sounds like a philosophy not only for empire-building, but for "Game of Thrones." Characters who were once at the center (Ned, Jaime) have been moved aside, while other characters who were once on the margins (Theon, Stannis) are now driving much of the action. (Even Tyrion, who was prominent through much of last season, is in a far more powerful position this year.) Power and import change rapidly in this world, and on this show, and while that can be exciting to watch — or even to live through, if you're one of those seizing the power — it also means that more and more people will wind up in a position other than the one they're best-suited to fill.

Some other thoughts:

* Loved Theon's disgust at the idea that Hodor (Hodor!) had been the mastermind behind getting the Stark boys out of Winterfell.

* Interesting how much magic there seems to be in Qarth. Warlock Pelton's illusions prove to be more potent while he's wiping out the rest of the Thirteen, and the woman in the metal mask somehow knows all about Jorah's near-betrayal of Dany with the assassination attempt last season.

* The more Xaro talks about all the awesome treasure hidden behind his vault door, the more I wonder if anyone who opens it up will find what Geraldo found in Al Capone's vault, you know?

Finally, we're going to keep the book/spoiler issue as simple as possible. We are here to discuss "Game of Thrones" AS A TV SHOW, NOT AS AN ENDLESS SERIES OF COMPARISONS TO THE BOOKS. Therefore, here's the only rule you should remember: if your comment contains the phrase "the books" without it being immediately preceded by "I haven't read," then you should probably delete what you've written and start over. Anything even vaguely questionable will be deleted, and if you see something that I haven't already removed, please feel free to email me. As usual, I've set up a message board discussion thread where you can do as much TV vs. books discussion as you want. In these comments, everything book-related that has yet to come up on the TV show (plot, characters we haven't met, motivation, etc.) is verboten.

What did everybody else think?

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

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Alan Sepinwall
Sr. Editor, What's Alan Watching
Alan Sepinwall has been reviewing television since the mid-'90s, first for Tony Soprano's hometown paper, The Star-Ledger, and now for HitFix. His new book, "The Revolution Was Televised," about the last 15 years of TV drama, is for sale at Amazon. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

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Next 331 Comments
  • Annie8bit_talkback_profile

    Stormshadow4life

    Enjoyed/creeped out by Dany's adventures this week.
    Loved the back and forth with Jon Snow.
    King Killer stuff was okay, but nothing special.
    Really enjoyed Cercie's stuff.
    And like you, I assume those bodies are of the farm kids.
    Good ep, but not great

    May 13, 2012 at 10:19PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Annie8bit_talkback_profile

      Stormshadow4life oh, and loved Arya (always do)

      May 13, 2012 at 10:20PM EST
    • 5740_140244010504_505705504_3467212_3589155_n_talkback_profile

      Omagus Arya is definitely great on her own accord but the interaction between her and Tywin has easily become the highlight of this season to me.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:39AM EST
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      Matthew I completely agree with you Omagus. The Arya Tywin stuff is easily my favorite thing this season, even over Tyrion being awesome as all get out. I just have a grin on my face the whole time Tywin and Arya go back and forth with one another.

      May 14, 2012 at 1:44AM EST
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      Nigel The Arya and Tywin scenes are gold. The cynical veteran Charles Dance versus the smart-alec nature of young Maisie Williams = gold.

      May 14, 2012 at 6:58AM EST
    • I want more Jaqen. The actor has really exceeded my expectations, moar jaqen/ arya pls ooo ooo give them a spinoff where theyre like the a team of westeros! This ep even set it up with the talk of brotherhood without banners

      May 14, 2012 at 12:16PM EST
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      Matthew Oh yeah, Jaqen is Awesome as well. The "bitch please" look he gave Arya last week when she wanted him to speed up the murder, that was fucking priceless.

      May 14, 2012 at 2:17PM EST
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      Nadine "Bitch please." Ha ha, so true. The actress who plays Arya is pretty much awesome with anyone she's on screen with but she seems to bring out some especially lovely stuff from Charles Dance too. "Go on, off with you," said with a thinly disguised grin. Love it.

      May 16, 2012 at 1:57AM EST
  • Annie8bit_talkback_profile

    Stormshadow4life

    Could someone please refresh my memory on how Jorah betrayed Dany last season? I have no idea what they were referring to

    May 13, 2012 at 10:22PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Trujillo Jorah was spying on Dany and Visyers for the Iron Throne, hoping to get a pardon so he could come back to Westeros. He told them that she was pregnant so they tried to have her assassinated.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:27PM EST
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      Karstark He was the one giving information to Varys (Ergo Robert) About Daenerys being pregnant, that's why they planned killing her. He recieved a pardon to return to westeros because of his betrayal... then the wine seller tried to poison daenerys while Jorah was reading the letter with the pardon. Still, Jorah saved her and remained with her.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:31PM EST
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      JP I'm confused by this too. I think Jorah was the informant who was passing news to Westeros. Maybe he was in on the wine merchant who tried to poison her?

      May 13, 2012 at 10:32PM EST
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      Keith G. She was nearly assassinated by the wine merchant when he stepped in and called him out (knowing that it was poison because he was varys'/robert's spy)

      May 13, 2012 at 10:34PM EST
    • .Right, he didnt expect them to try and kill her. He thought he was simply keeping tabs so he could come home without good old ned beheading him for being a slaver (confirmed by ned and jorahs father in thw series)

      May 14, 2012 at 12:19PM EST
    • Fountain-small_talkback_profile

      Fawst I think Jorah was reporting to Illyrio, actually. Jorah was spying on Dany/Viserys, but it was Illyrio who came to King's Landing to meet with Varys (the scene where Arya chases the cat into the dungeon where she finds the dragon skull). The thing I find odd is that it seems as if Varys is plotting to reinstate a Targaryan as the ruler of Westeros, yet he goes along fully with the plan to assassinate them. Never understood that.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:35PM EST
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      the goat He may have also been communicating with Illyrio, but he def knew Varys was involved (Illyrio wouldn't be able to get a royal pardon from Robert). Also, the slave boy who hands him the pardon says "the Spider sends his greetings."

      May 14, 2012 at 5:43PM EST
  • Emo7_talkback_profile

    Greg Grant

    Half-half episode for me. If it wasn't for a couple of late scenes in the last 15 minutes, I'd have been tempted to call this the first disappointing episode of the season. But the good stuff was good, and balanced out the bad in the first half.

    The good stuff, for me, was: Arya/Tywin scenes, the Jamie/Poor Relation of Lannisters "oh sht, he's going to whack him" scene, the Qath Regime Change (this is where the good side of the show started tiling the overall episode balance), Cersei/Tyrion quick aside and ruminations, and Jamie taunting Catelyn.

    The bad stuff were the romance subplots of Jon Snow/Fiery Redhead and Robb Stark/Doe Eyed Nurse. Forgetable, goofy, rom-com, and sitcommy. You knew where each are going, and you have to sit through this awkward dialogue of blandness and meaningful stares. It's vital that Fiery Redhead is seen as Jon Snow's equal, thus she must talk, and talk, and talk, and explain her position all the while we await the inevitable reversal of roles. Ugh.

    I am also downgrading Dany from Female Steven Seagal to the world's most annoying five year old. "I want my pony/dragons!" "Get me my dragons!" " Waaah."

    Theon was... Theon. The dude is clueless about a lot of things, but seems to get the whole cruel thing as a gimmick might keep people in line.

    Nerdy McNerdy moment. In the comments last week, BBQ brought up Qath setting feels like a "Star Trek" episode, but I think the Jon Snow/Fiery Redhead storyline is the most "Star Trek" thing on the show, with a side of "Romancing the Stone" and "Three Days of Condor." Think LaForge getting stuck with a Romulan in that one episode where Worf refuses to donate his blood (Season 3?). If the Romulan was a girl, and the writing was way worse.

    Oh, and JP - no nudity!

    May 13, 2012 at 10:27PM EST Reply to Comment
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      JP There was body painting (male) nudity in the scene with the Eyes Wide Shut woman. If it's between nudity and crispy kids (Stark or otherwise), I'll take the nudity.

      Anxious to see what Catelyn did to Jaime with Breane's ("no, that's not it" - my favorite line of the night) sword.

      I was suspicious last week that the war would not be resolved by the end of this season, and I'm getting more and more sure of it now.

      By the way, non-spoiler from the previews for next week - "two episodes left?" By my count there should be three more, unless they're doing a two-hour finale?

      How many weeks since we've seen Varys? Has he been around since posing the riddle to Tyrion?

      May 13, 2012 at 10:38PM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r I did say that!

      May 14, 2012 at 12:16AM EST
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      Matthew Thank you Greg! I'm glad someone else sees Dany as acting like a child. She seems to think she is just as entitled as Viserys. Shes always whining about how this is mine, and how she will have what is her. But all she does is ask other people to do it for her, or tries to talk about how she has dragons, and how that should get people to listen to her. Its annoying, especially when there are lots of other people who actually take action on their own in this series, and do things themselves. I have yet to see Dany as this strong character that everyone talks about, just someone who thinks their shit don't stink. At least she is a better person and more compassionate than Viserys, and that's about all she has over him imo.

      May 14, 2012 at 1:50AM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r I thought Dany was a lot more likeable last season. This season she has turned into a whiny entitled brat. Maybe this just part of her maturation process, but I'm not a fan this year. MINE MINE MINE DRAGONS RABBLE RABBLE MINE!

      May 14, 2012 at 10:58AM EST
    • This seasons theme seems to be characters out,of their element and dany is very much out of hers. She had everything within her grasp and lost it, now shes struggling to maintain control where she has none

      May 14, 2012 at 12:22PM EST
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      JP "Mine Mine Dragons Dragons Rabble Rabble Mine" would be a great album title.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:26PM EST
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      davidbc Greg Grant... YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THESE ROMANCE SUBPLOTS ARE GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      May 14, 2012 at 2:31PM EST
    • Emo7_talkback_profile

      Greg Grant @David, yeah, I do. Not because I read the books, but because I have read many a sci-fi and fantasy book in general. Given who the male characters are, and given the tone, you can easily predict the end, and the twists of romantic stories here. Politics are hard. Fantasy-themed romance is quite easy.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:51PM EST
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      Pizpot Gargravarr I don't really care about the romance element, but I enjoyed their back and forth. I thought her teasing was quite amusing and she seems a likeable enough character.
      I am interested to see how this relationship and his further interactions with the wildlings affect his loyalties to the Night's Watch. I'm particularly interested in getting a better sense of the wildlings in general. Especially this Mance Rayder character they've been building up since the start of the series.

      As for their "romance" specifically, you never know, maybe they will subvert your expectations at some point. I don't really read fantasy novels in general, so I don't have much of a sense of how Martin writing compares to the norm. Would you say that the way other storylines have played out has been predictable? Have other elements of the plotting subverted genre tropes?

      I agree with you that the Robb/nurse storyline doesn't have much going for it at the moment, in my opinion. I'm curious to find out what her story really is, but that's about it.

      May 14, 2012 at 9:04PM EST
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    John

    What I loved most about the Jaime scene was that it was very much no-BS. He did, in fact, seem to mean what he said, and showed us a, dare I say, LIKEABLE side to his character. Of course, he is nothing if not a cruel survivor, so that is followed with him murdering his own kin.

    May 13, 2012 at 10:30PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Zach R. Uhh I think that's a bit of a spoiler Karstark.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:41PM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall And it's gone, not to worry.

      May 13, 2012 at 11:45PM EST
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      Nat King Kong And the murder was completely unnecessary. He could have simply had the kid play dead or pull the ol' fake seizure or something and achieved the same result. Also, really bad decision-making by the guard who, of course, decides he has to go investigate the body by himself, turning his back to the dangerous Kingslayer.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:25PM EST
    • So apparently Jaime's murder of Alton as a plan to secure his escape has backfired?? Or did I miss something? Perhaps there's more coming in the next episodes but it seemed like a useless murder to me. Not that this show treats the ultimate punishment as always necessary or valiant, but it did seem a bit melodramatic to brutally murder the squire and the the knight guard only to be re-captured by Catelyn's group. if Catelyn only knew that Joffrey et al were going nowhere she would have already had Jaime's head. I would have.

      Remind me. Does Catelyn know that Jaime pushed Bran out the window after he spotted the siblings sexual tryst?

      May 15, 2012 at 4:29PM EST
    • Tattoo_talkback_profile

      Hatfield She does know. Their exchange from the end of last year when she asks him why and he says he'd hoped the fall would kill him.

      May 15, 2012 at 4:32PM EST
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    ZD

    Alan,

    Why are you assuming that all Jamie is good at is killing? I mean, did you see how who threw Catelyn's honor "insult" right back?

    Seems to me he thinks himself a true knight, e.g. "the things I do for love" "I've only ever slept with Cersi" etc.

    May 13, 2012 at 10:35PM EST Reply to Comment
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      coolsid Have to agree with this. THere was also the scene with Tywin last season, where Jaime said he couldnt kill Ned because it was too clean

      May 13, 2012 at 11:06PM EST
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      W.A.Wilson Jaime said in the episode that it was all he was good for. I'm not saying he's being honest but that's what he said about himself. He didn't seem to be in a position to be deceiving, knowing he was going to kill the person he was talking to.

      May 13, 2012 at 11:32PM EST
    • Because his entire persona is built as a cold blooded murderer, unfortunately its more tell than show. Speaking of that conversation, where is selmy? I want to see me some barristan kicking ass, not just hear about it

      May 14, 2012 at 12:25PM EST
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      tijde Agreed, Cory. Selmy please!

      May 15, 2012 at 2:30AM EST
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    Mike Hernandez

    Are we sure that wasn't Bran and Rickon's charred remains at the end of the show?

    May 13, 2012 at 10:35PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Emo7_talkback_profile

      Greg Grant Nothing is sure, but a lifetime of watching TV makes it unlikely that such important characters would be killed off-camera. If they were dead, it'd be milked for all the drama it can. Also, the show went out of it's way to tell us that the neighbor had two boys. Rickon mentions it unprompted to Wilding Tonks.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:38PM EST
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      Clips Weenis

      May 13, 2012 at 10:44PM EST
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      JP Greg - are you a fan of the Cast of Thrones podcast? "Wildling Tonks" is what made me wonder.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:46PM EST
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      Prettok Do you really think they wouldn't have shown us their deaths onscreen? Like Bran and Rickon were some minor characters?

      May 13, 2012 at 10:46PM EST
    • Emo7_talkback_profile

      Greg Grant JP, nah, have not checked it out. But I forgot her name, and remembered how many people on here called her Tonks. So I might have taken it from people here who do listen to it.

      May 13, 2012 at 10:50PM EST
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      Jack Sparrow They would never kill Rickon offscreen.

      May 13, 2012 at 11:07PM EST
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      Briala In my experience, TV shows are pretty hesitant to kill children generally, and especially so on screen and even more so in a cruel or violent manner. Of course Game of Thrones hasn't exactly been following the rules generally so who knows.

      May 14, 2012 at 1:51AM EST
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      Piggly Briala, regardless of whether the corpses are Bran and Rickon, it's clear that the show did kill two children, and it did so in a cruel and violent manner. We saw the bodies.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:41AM EST
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      Jamie I feel very confident in saying that the two charred bodies were not Bran and Rickon. If Theon really wanted to make his point, which is what has driven him down this road of insanity entirely, he wouldn't have burned the bodies beyond recognition.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:55AM EST
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      Dezbot I don't think the direwolves would let them be killed without a fight, either.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:27AM EST
    • I think if it had been the boys, theon would have made quite the spectacle of publicly killing osha and Hodor (Hodor!)

      May 14, 2012 at 12:28PM EST
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      Fred I think it was the orphan boys that bran sent to that farm

      May 14, 2012 at 9:49PM EST
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      tijde I definitely agree with [namesless poster] up there. If Theon had Tonks, he would have made a spectacle of her death/punishment (and knowing GoT, he probably would have given her to his men at some point too). He was too humiliated not to. And I can't see Tonks letting the boys be taken without her, so I'm voting no--it's the farm boys.

      May 15, 2012 at 2:35AM EST
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    Zach R.

    Arya and Tywin for all the Emmys, ALL OF THEM. I could seriously watch a full episode of Game of Thrones of them just bantering back and forth. Title the episode, "My Dinner with Tywin."

    You could also have a fun romantic comedy episode with Ygritte and Jon Snow, those were just great scenes to watch.

    I don't know what the casting process is like for Game of Thrones, but I cannot think of one part they have failed to properly cast. It's really astounding how each actor and actress does with their roles.

    May 13, 2012 at 10:38PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jane Man, I agree completely with you on the Arya and Tywin part.

      May 13, 2012 at 11:57PM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r I disagree about the Jon Snow scenes. They were boring and seemed way too drawn out. It was meant to recast the elitist attitude of the southerners with regards to the wildlings and also call into question the Night Watch, two things which have been brought up before and didn't need so much attention.

      I think we all knew where it was going with those two and I just wanted it to get there. Otherwise I really kind of liked the rest of the episode.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:20AM EST
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      Semi agree I have only one casting complaint: Shae. She was adorable in the books. In the series she's harsh, and not very likeable - though tonight was a bit redeeming for her. Otherwise, such amazing casting.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:45AM EST
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      Semi agree Oh, and just to say - I couldn't agree more about Arya/Tywin. Charles Dance and Maise Williams are simply magical together onscreen.

      It's funny that such an ultimately adversarial matchup reminds me strongly of the chemistry Keith and Veronica Mars had.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:06AM EST
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      BeastieBoy "Emmys, ALL OF THEM" ??!?!??!?? -

      As much as this show should take Best Drama, unfortunately, Best Supporting Actor should go to Giancarlo Esposito (Breaking Bad) and Best Supporting Actress should go to Christina Hendricks (Mad Men).

      May 14, 2012 at 7:27AM EST
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      Slartibartfatsdomino Haven't seen one episode of Mad Men yet, but Giancarlo Esposito is absolutely chilling as Gus Fring and I would have to agree with Beastieboy.

      However, give Arya an Emmy now! Actually, it's too bad they don't have teamwork Emmys, because Arya, while good before, has really only become sterling in the scenes with Tywin. I LOVE these scenes.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:07AM EST
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      Kirsten Totally agree on the casting in general on the show. the one actress who takes me out of it is Melisandre. everyone else though, particularly the outstanding child actors, are fantastic.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:39AM EST
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      W.A.Wilson Beastieboy, Christina Hendricks should NOT get best supporting actress for this season of Mad Men. She shouldn't even be nominated. You are blinded by her boobs. She had one good episode so far. And that was one of the worst episodes of the season

      May 14, 2012 at 2:46PM EST
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      tijde Gotta agree with Giancarlo Esposito--that role was subtle, and GE *killed* it. Ice in the veins, dude. I get chills just thinking of certain scenes. When I watch interviews and such, I get the sense that often actors, including many on GoT, tend to play personalities not drastically far from their own. That isn't a bad thing at all, and doesn't make them bad actors. But Esposito was utterly transformed into the Gus Fring role. As much as I'm adoring the Arya/Tywin scenes--they're both impressive forces anyway, and they have HUGE amounts of chemistry performing together--Esposito earned his Emmy many times over.

      I'll stay mum on Christina, though. ;)

      As for GoT casting, the only choice I'm still unsure about is Brienne. She LOOKS awesome and perfect for the part. I get that she's meant to be awkward and a bit oafish, but her acting seems wooden or stilted or something compared to those she's sharing scenes with. Her breakdown at Renly's assassination felt like over the top melodrama to me. Maybe I'll feel differently once her character is fleshed out a bit more, though.

      May 15, 2012 at 2:56AM EST
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      Mango Brienne's reaction to Renly's death was awesome and perfect. You may not realize this but she was mourning the loss of her King but the loss of her position and the incredible guilt of failing to protect both. It is not easy for women like her, in medieval times and still now. For the first time in her life, she received an honorable position and acceptance, doing what she loved and did best. Her life held a purpose and she was valued. When Renly died all that fell away. The reaction had to be the way it was - you are looking at a woman who just lost everything.

      May 16, 2012 at 2:20PM EST
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    jd4THRONE

    So confused with the burnt bodies. The more i think about it the more it makes sense theyre farm kids. If they were the real stark children theon wouldve been sure to make everyone see their actual identities before killing them. I hope so atleast

    May 13, 2012 at 10:51PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Slartibartfatsdomino I actually knew immediately that it couldn't be Bran and Rickon (I haven't read the books), even though I had missed the dialogue about there being two farm-kids. My reasoning was that Theon was desperate to show his control over the situation, which would have been better with live Bran and Rickon captives, but if you can't have that than burnt bodies that you can pass of as Bran and Rickon is an ok substitute (in Theon's mind).

      May 14, 2012 at 3:34AM EST
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      Mark C Also - theres been masses of foreshadowing with Bran's wolf and crow dreams. If you've ever read a book or seen a movie you should realise he can't be dead yet! I believe you can see that certain characters are safe from death in the near term specifically because they are in the midst of a developing story - Robb for example, whose romance is as yet only partially developed, or Arya who has only used 2 of her 3 promised deaths.

      May 14, 2012 at 6:21AM EST
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      mgrabois Mark, Stannis Baratheon was in the middle of a developing story when he got killed.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:15AM EST
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      mgrabois D'oh! I meant Renly, of course.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:17AM EST
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      Slartibartfatsdomino Stannis is still with us. It's his brother that got whacked via smoke-monster.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:17AM EST
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      tijde Mark, but we know magic in Westeros is more real than most characters admit or realize. And dead people have come back before, ala Zombie Crow (can't recall his name--you know, the one Jon burned).

      May 15, 2012 at 3:01AM EST
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    WaltEagle

    Jorah didn't know about the assassination attempt, he just suspected/figured it out in the moment. His betrayal was spying for Varys, as Varys told Robert and Ned in one scene.

    May 13, 2012 at 10:54PM EST Reply to Comment
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      ocrasaroon Yeah, that's what I like to tell myself, too. I have absolutely no desire to have that particular bit of ambiguity clarified. Much hearts to Jorah Mormont 4eva!

      May 17, 2012 at 12:44AM EST
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    Meg

    Alan, I wish you would tell us what scenes and characters worked for you and which did not. Lately seems like you're just writing summaries of the episodes instead of reviewing them.

    May 13, 2012 at 11:02PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Chill_out_meg Ouch.

      May 14, 2012 at 7:30AM EST
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      Marlo Seconded. Less recap, more analysis please!

      May 14, 2012 at 10:03AM EST
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      Toni I was thinking the same things for the last two reviews. Would love your thoughts on these episodes, Alan.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:53AM EST
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      George True, they do come across as summaries than they do reviews. Reminds me of Ebert's current review style.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:08PM EST
    • I seem to recall him saying the reviews may be late coming bc he was only given thr first five episodes. Personally, if (and imo it probably is) a choice of a review at whatever o clock monday and a summary that lets us start the discussion, id go for this style. These boards are drama and mostly spoiler free so the discussion is more imprtant to me than the review or lack :)

      May 14, 2012 at 12:33PM EST
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    JedyKnight

    "Those in the margins often come to control the center, and those in the center make room for them, willingly or otherwise."..

    And who are the characters that are in the extreme margins: Jon and Dany. >; )

    May 13, 2012 at 11:06PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Viginti

    Glad that you got a review up tonight Alan, I'm guessing that they gave you screeners in the end then?

    I thought this was one of the seasons most cohesive efforts, especially in regards to the thematics, and have rambled a veritable thesis on it. Got yelled at for posting something so lengthy last week, so here is a link to it instead:

    Deerinthexenonarclights.com/game-of-thrones-a-man-without-honor

    May 13, 2012 at 11:36PM EST Reply to Comment
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    barbotus

    You don't mess with the Zohan Ducksauce.

    May 13, 2012 at 11:39PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Sam

    Thirdean?

    May 13, 2012 at 11:42PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Jared K

    In a recent interview, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau claimed that Episode 7 contained one of his favorite scenes that he had ever participated in as an actor. After watching Jaime's conversation with the unfortunate Alton Lannister (I assume that wass the scene, though his later conversation with Catelyn was great as well), I can see why. That was some remarkably eloquent and tense dialogue that told us volumes about his character, and then pulled the rug out at the end. And of course, he got to kick a little ass - despite being chained - there at the end. Jaime probably hasn't been enough of a factor this season for NCW to get any awards attention (I assume that no one in this fine cast will other than the very-deserving Peter Dinklage, which is a shame) but that scene certainly merits recognition for all the actors and writers who helped bring it to life.

    May 13, 2012 at 11:42PM EST Reply to Comment
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      sukeyna Alfie Allen is doing outstanding work also.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:17AM EST
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      Slartibartfatsdomino Emmy for Arya! Now!

      May 14, 2012 at 3:39AM EST
    • I think we could argue for catelynn as lead actress nom
      Arya definitely deserves a supporting
      Charles dance as well, they would have been wise to mark him a guest star imo.
      Ian glen gets a nom for coolest voice :p
      Jaqen may be more likely for a guest spot nom. Love his portrayal.
      Mage Pelton for best mix of the dean and a leukemic bad guy,from the d&d movie lol

      May 14, 2012 at 12:40PM EST
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    Sam

    Thirdean

    May 13, 2012 at 11:42PM EST Reply to Comment
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      MaxS House of the unDeaning.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:36AM EST
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      SisyphusRocks I stole your DragDeans

      May 14, 2012 at 11:12PM EST
    • Winteriscoming_talkback_profile

      MaxS He drinks lots of Shade of the Deanening.

      May 15, 2012 at 12:29AM EST
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    Jane

    What do you guys think about Shae? Last season when she was introduced it looked like she was going to do something, that she had a plan. But 'till now, she has done *nothing*.

    May 14, 2012 at 12:08AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Greg Grant She still has some sort of plan. Think of how she fluctuates from being Haughty Maid to Sansa's Bestest Friend. I don't know what that plan is, but at this point I don't think it's lazy writing. And the way she cozened up to Tyrion was waaaaaay too quick, too. Something is up there.

      If I am proven wrong, and it is lazy bad writing, I will be very disappointed, because it would have taken away the cardinal rule of this show: paying attention to little stuff, that will pay off later on.

      May 14, 2012 at 1:01AM EST
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      keith Is Shae Tyrion's girlfriend? She's charmed by the little guy and knows a good thing, and she's moral so she protects people. I didn't see anything else going on there, and I've noticed all the other tropes they use and I totally agree with your other comments, Greg.

      May 14, 2012 at 2:43AM EST
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      Greg Grant @Keith. I could have misread it, but it just seems fishy to me that she and Tyrion have this "thing" out of nowhere, and that she goes from "Sansa, you spoiled little princess" to be willing to go to the mattresses for her (yes, it's a pun). Maybe she's a good person, but I am having doubts.

      May 14, 2012 at 2:47AM EST
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      keith Well, she was a whore, which can be an up and down lifestyle, and one where you often aren't seen as a person. Tyrion, born privileged but odd-looking, sees everyone as an individual and judges them personally, shorn of whatever culturally determined status they may have. When two people like that meet they typically bond very quickly. I think it's good writing.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:25AM EST
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      jdstorm As they showed us in the first episode, Shae is tyrion's live in GF/personal whore on retainer. so that explains the closeness.

      As for Sansa, given how unlikeable she was in the first season, they are clearly trying to show how this experience as a prisoner in the castle has changed her. that unlike the irredeemable joffery, she is developing the qualities that everybody loves about the other stark kids, intelligence, kindness honor ect,

      This kind of transformation takes time though, and with so many characters to service, the lack of time given to this subplot makes it feel disjointed

      May 14, 2012 at 3:47AM EST
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      Semi agree Note: Shae IS a whore, not WAS one. Just because she's Tyrion's exclusive whore now, whom he conceals by placing her as Sansa's handmaiden, doesn't mean she's not getting paid to screw Tyrion.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:51AM EST
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      keith Semi, if he had a girlfriend who wasn't a whore do you think he wouldn't be generous with her? I think you're making my point: she's attracted to him because, unlike many, he sees her as a person, not as her job.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:16AM EST
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      Kelp I think it was last week that Shae advised Sansa not to trust anyone. I would guess that's the philosophy she lives by. And though Tyrion clearly has feelings for her, I'm not so sure she sees him as anything more than a ticket to a better life.

      May 14, 2012 at 8:24AM EST
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      AnnaN Tyrion is intelligent. It seems to me that he decided to kill two birds with one stone. He couldn't keep Shae locked up and by making her Sansa's handmaiden, he is having Shae keep an eye on a most valuable asset and protecting her from harm.

      That said, I thought it highly unlikely unlikely that the Hound would have stomped his way into the room unbidden and then tattled to Cersei.

      May 14, 2012 at 9:41AM EST
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      Ser Dontos Maybe Shae is working for Littlefinger? I can't remember where Tyrion picked her up, but she was a whore, so maybe she knew him before. So now she's spying on both Sansa and Tyrion.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:24PM EST
    • Reply to comment...I disagree that there was some hatred toward sansa. She was/is a whore and is accustomed to being treated poorly. Imo she was just holding her tongue when sansa snapped at her for being too familiar

      May 14, 2012 at 12:43PM EST
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      tijde Interesting point, Anna. I didn't take that scene to mean The Hound would tell Cersei himself, necessarily. I didn't even consider that as a possibility, though I will now. I took it to mean that Shae and Sansa were both being hit by a hard reality: They can't hide something like this. Three people came in within minutes of Sansa waking up. It wouldn't take long for word to get out among the help anyway, and once that happens, Cersei, Varys, etc. would know too. Poor Sansa--NO privacy whatsoever.

      Side note: that was quite the mess for a first period. =\

      May 15, 2012 at 3:27AM EST
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    crimminims

    Am I the only one who was slightly distracted by the woman in the iron mask's dubbed-over voice? I get that she probably has to do a lot of her lines in ADR, but I just kept thinking how nice it was that Siri was branching out from her iPhone gig.

    May 14, 2012 at 12:14AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Greg Grant I'm just glad Siri is getting away from Zoey and that terrible commercial. "Is it raining?" "Can't you see it's raining? What are you blind?" "No, I am quirky and full of whimsy, so I have to ask, and people will think it's cute because I am manic pixie girl. Teheehee" "Siri has blown it's own brain out. Goodbye."

      May 14, 2012 at 12:58AM EST
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      ocrasaroon Bless you, Greg, for validating my disbelief that anyone ever thought "Is that rain?" was a good idea. You are asking Siri about rain precisely BECAUSE you hear rain. That observation should negate the need to ask. Add to that the fact that apparently we need Siri to answer a question for us that we could answer ourselves simply by walking across the room and looking out a god damned window...and I think it safe to say that Sam Jackson's spot wins that ad battle hands-down.

      Also safe to say: I am way too bothered by trival bullshit.

      May 17, 2012 at 12:55AM EST
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    Chris Curry

    Great review Alan, always insightful and interesting. Can't wait to listen to the Hollywood Prospectus podcast on Grantland this week so I can hear Andy Greenwall rip on Game of Thrones again this week for ten minutes, and then end with "but I'm really enjoying it."

    May 14, 2012 at 12:27AM EST Reply to Comment
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    nic919

    I have not read the books so this is just speculation, but I was getting the feeling that Joffrey might get taken out by his own family based Cersei and Tyrion's conversation. And then Jamie kills a distant Lannister relative in the same episode so I can see a theme starting.

    May 14, 2012 at 12:28AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Scott

    If there isn't a mashup by morning that shows Jaime telling his cousin he has to die and John Locke from LOST receiving the same news then the internet has failed us.

    May 14, 2012 at 1:01AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Hodor

    Hodor!

    May 14, 2012 at 1:25AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Hodor the Hodor Hands down, most fleshed out and loveable character in the entire series.

      The simple man's loyalty knows no bounds.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:42PM EST
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    Grifter

    Meh. Just give us more Arya, Tywin and Jaqen with a pinch of Tyrion and Bron.

    May 14, 2012 at 1:53AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Hatfield

    I realize there are 8 million characters now, but I really think they are bungling Stannis and company a bit. If he's supposed to be this big threat to Kings Landing, possibly the most formidable for out there, we should be getting more with him. Hindsight, yeah, but that ad that had him reading his "I'm the king, best recognize" letter while everyone looked pensive and concerned now seems fairly misleading.

    Then again, it could be the Stannis Baratheon Show from here on out and I'll have to eat my words.

    May 14, 2012 at 1:57AM EST Reply to Comment
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      tijde I'm betting the next few eps will be Stannis-heavy to keep him fresh in our minds, for either a S2 battle or between-seasons suspense.

      May 15, 2012 at 3:31AM EST
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    Matthew

    I have to strongly disagree with you Alan on your comment about how Jaime is a man without honor. He does in fact have honor, honor to his family(well immediate family at least).

    He pretty much explained why he has done the things he has. Aerys was a mad king, remember he did kill Neds brother, father, and sister. While Jaime did say that Yywin despised the king. He also talked about how he took vows for his families, and vows to be in the kingsguard, yet those clashed. Its pretty simple, a vow was going to be broken regardless, and he decided to side with his family that he does truly love, instead of the Mad King.

    Hell, even when he tossed Bran out a window in the first episode, he told Cersei "the things I do for love". Yeah, hes a "bad guy" because hes on the side against the Starks, but he really isn't a man without honor.

    Another examples include how he wanted to fight Ned one on one in the season 1, and didn't like that his own man got involved. Why would a man with no honor fight with honor?

    He just lives by his own code, and a simple one at that(he loves his family). Yeah he does "evil" things to protect the ones he loves, but wouldn't most people do that anyway?

    Oh yeah, over the second season/book House Lannister(Joffery not included) has easily become my fav house in the series. And Jaimes talk with Catelyn that they had was one of the big sticking points.

    Lannisters ROOL, Starks DROOL(though they still are cool....Go Lannister)

    May 14, 2012 at 2:08AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Greg Grant Dude, no offense, but that was such a Draco in Leather Pants post. He didn't fight Ned with honor, he got didn't like his own man being involved in a killing of a Stark man, because by the vendetta and bannermen rules of medieval society that meant their two houses were now in open fight and he was sent there to scare off Starks and not cause open warfare.

      And as for the "things I do for love." Um, attempted murder of a child to protect your incest lover is not an act of honor.

      Jaime thinks he has honor, because nobody thinks they are the villain of their life story, but him thinking himself as being an honorable man does not make him an honorable man. Oh I am sure he has some set of convoluted rules to govern himself to convince himself that he is a knight and a wrong party, but just because you are nice to your little brother and try to help your family does not excuse you from being an a-hole bastard.

      May 14, 2012 at 2:53AM EST
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      Matthew Don't get me wrong, Jaime is a complete dick a lot of the time. But you can be a complete dick and still have honor to ones family. But this isn't a black and white story, its a shades of gray. Villains can have honor.

      Omar from the Wire was a villain in a sense, but he had his own code, and his own way of doing things.

      But really look at other characters in this story, who were on the "heroes" side of things. Like Robert, he was a fat drunken slob, who rebelled against his king. Then fathered over fifty times the amount of bastards Ned has. But because Jaime was the one who slayed the king, hes the one who is seen as dishonorable? Even though Robert would of did the same thing, when he took a vow to bend the knee to king Aerys as well, just not to be in the own person kingsguard. Fuck, Jaime is more honorable than Robert

      I'm not saying Jaime is a dashing knight, or a truly honorable person like Ned or Stannis.. Just that there is honor there, and its shown through. Hes not fully gone like Joffery.

      And really think about if he would of let Bran talk, then the Lannisters would of lost it all, especially Cersei, she would of been beheaded. Yeah it was to protect the incest that was going on, but I think other characters would go as far as killing someone to make sure their family the people they love could survive. Once again its bad, but there is some reason for it.

      Honor in Game of Thrones is a touchy subject, but I think some of the villain characters in this series has honor, even if its not much, but its there. Just like with how the upstanding moral heroes of the story like Ned could sire a bastard, or Robb at least contemplating breaking his oath to the freys(just for some puss).

      May 14, 2012 at 3:20AM EST
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      Semi agree Robert was not a fat drunken slob when he rebelled against the king. He was a handsome, powerful man who was loved by all. The Iron Throne - and his wife - turned him not the man we met at the beginning of the series.

      Jamie is... complicated. I hate and admire him at the same time. I really do think he killed Aerys for good reasons, even if Ned didn't believe those reasons. Ned just couldn't get past the Kingsguard oath being broken.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:57AM EST
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      Matthew Whoops, sorry I didn't make it clear in the Robert paragraph. I just meant that Robert became a fat drunken slob by the end, and that was the man he came to be. Though like Jaime, he still did break a vow towards his king when he was younger.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:03AM EST
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      jaime Nobody is like me... there is only me.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:48AM EST
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      Dr. Dunkenstein There's a difference between loyalty and honor. Jaime is loyal to his family but honor, in the world of westeros anyway, seems to be a matter of being true to one's word and fulfilling oaths, something Jaime doesn't do.

      You can argue that Loyalty to one's family is perhaps more admirable than the sort of silly and rigid concept of "honor" that got Ned killed but breaking oaths, killing family members and crippling children isn't an honorable act regardless of the intentions behind it.

      May 14, 2012 at 6:09AM EST
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      Matt MATTHEW, you can argue that Jaime does or doesn't have honor, but none of that matters where Alan's original comment is concerned. Jaime IS the "Man Without Honor" the episode title is referring to. That's how he is perceived in the Seven Kingdoms. "Kingslayer" isn't an affectionate nickname. He is a very prominent knight who broke his most prominent vow when he killed the Mad King. Regardless of his justification, he is called honorless by the people of Westeros, so Alan is right.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:57AM EST
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      Matthew What it seems to me is that Alan is taking the name to heart, when I don't think its like that. I could be wrong though and Alan could just be saying it because of the title of the episode.

      Also isn't there at least some honor in being loyal to your family(I'm talking immediate family, you know the family you were raised by. Not these huge ass clans). Being loyal to his family shows that Jaime does have honor towards something, maybe that doesn't account for lots of honor, but surely has to count for some.

      May 14, 2012 at 2:29PM EST
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      Dr. Dunkenstein "Being loyal to his family shows that Jaime does have honor towards something"

      I'm not really sure honor works like that, either as a concept or a part of speech. You don't have honor "to" various things. It's something you either have or you don't. It seems to be a fairly rigid concept in this world. For a knight like Jaime, it's about your oaths and, I assume, some sort of quasi-chivalric code. Jaime, from what we've seen and heard, has basically no regard for anything that is considered honorable in Westeros. We know he violated his oath as a member of a the Kingsguard, we know he was banging a married woman for many years, we know he'll kill children if it suits his purpose.

      Where you're getting hung up, I think, is the idea that there's a ton of judgment hung up in calling Jaime a man without honor. I think that the series, right now, has illustrated pretty well just how stupid and destructive Ned's honor has been both for his family and the land as a whole. It was Ned's sense of honor that led him to accept the role of hand of the king, then to allow Cersei room to maneuver by confronting her with what he'd found out. On a larger scale, it was Ned's sense of honor and family that led to him backing Catelyn's ridiculous capture of Tyrion that started much of the animosity that led to the war.

      The perfect way this was illustrated last year was with Bronn's fight with Ser-Whatshisname in the Aerie last year. Honor, in Westeros, makes you dead. It's the people like Jaime who tend to stick it out.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:25PM EST
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      Matthew If Honor works that way, where there is no ambiguity towards it. Then no one in this series truly has honor. Not Ned, he would have forsaken it when he fathered a bastard. Not Stannis, because he stepped out on his marriage.

      I believe you can have little honor, like someone like Jaime seems to have. What was Ned's downfall wasn't that he was an honorable man, it was that he had TOO MUCH honor. He wasn't willing to play dirty enough against Cersei.(Well he did break his Vow to King Aerys and rebelled..... because he wanted vengeance for his family, hey honor towards ones family again). Stannis is probably the most honorable person next to Ned in the series, hell even more so. But Like I said earlier, he was willing to bend the rules of honor to beat Renly. Does it lessen his honor a bit? Yeah. Does it make him not an honorable what so ever? No. Is Jaime a complete dick, with little honor? Yes. Is he a man with no honor whatsoever? No.

      Now Bronn on the other hand is truly a man with no honor. He is willing to kill babies just because it pays well. I don't think Jaime would do that, the asshole that he is.(He only threw Bran off the tower because he saw him and Cersei, and would rather protect Cersei and his children. Now its not really honorable, but hes not doing it for some completely fucked reason)

      May 14, 2012 at 4:00PM EST
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      Filipe The Mad King did not kill Ned's sister. She died of a fever in a tower after she was kidnapped by Rhaegar Targaryen. Just remember that the only person we've heard this from is Robert Baratheon. It may not be true.

      May 14, 2012 at 8:11PM EST
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      tijde I do think Jaine gets a bum rap for being the sword that slew the king. I think kingslaying is just a huge taboo in their culture, and a somewhat nonsensical one. Robert and Ned rebelled and ended a dynasty, yet they weren't stigmatized in the way Jaime was.

      That said, I can't really see pushing Bran as something motivated by his own inner honor. I do think he has that, but his flippant and easy manner made it seem like he was humoring Cersei more than anything else, not protecting her. Maybe I need to watch that scene again.

      May 15, 2012 at 3:43AM EST
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      Justin The man without honor comment that Alan made was due to the title of the episode, which was referring to Jaime.

      May 16, 2012 at 2:52PM EST
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    Lazy Iggy

    We got TWO hodors tonight! Very pleased...and oh yes, brilliant work by everyone else...Hodor!

    May 14, 2012 at 2:33AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Hodor Hodor

      May 14, 2012 at 7:11AM EST
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    Disappointed

    I'm sorry to sound bitchy, but I'm tired of the Daxos="Ducksauce" jokes. I really feel like Americans are just making fun of British accents. Wish you'd not resort to a cheap accent joke, Alan, you're much smarter than that.

    In a larger sense, making fun of fantasy character names has always felt like a kind of bully-ish behavior to me. I wonder how many Bilbo/Dildo jokes were made before LotR was fully mainstream.

    May 14, 2012 at 4:02AM EST Reply to Comment
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      keith I didn't get the joke until just now. It's the way he says Daxos, not a reference to a popular Chinese cooking show or whatever I imagined it was. Yeah, that's pretty cheap, if that's the whole joke.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:22AM EST
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      darthzombie When they say the name outloud in the show it sounds like Ducksauce, so that is the whole of the joke. I find it amusing, and others seem to as well...

      May 14, 2012 at 7:10AM EST
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      keith To me it sounds like Daxos with an 'a'.

      May 14, 2012 at 9:04AM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r Aren't nicknames all in the same? They are not necessarily mocking anyone. Shortening Daenerys to Dany is the same thing. It allows us to remember someone. Is it offensive if you referred to me as Matt rather than Matthew? Stop getting so offended. I never knew his name was Daxos so I have been referring to him as Ducksauce too because its easy to remember... get over it.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:14AM EST
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      keith I didn't say it was offensive - I said it was cheap.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:20AM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall It is not bullying. It is my way of coping with George R.R. Martin's penchant for coming up with difficult-to-spell names. (I was stunned to discover that I guessed right on Alton this week, for instance.) The guy's name sounds like Ducksauce, and that's easier to remember than Daxos. Every time.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:34AM EST
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      Disappointed Oh, I get that part, Alan. GRRM spellings are difficult, and stuf like Dany, Mags, etc. I get. I've just gotten weary of the Ducksauce one from sites other than this one, and the fantasy bullying thing was a general observation, not directed at you.

      @darthzombie - that's my point. It only sounds like Ducksauce because of the Brit accents, which soften and lengthen the A and turns the O into more of an AO.

      May 14, 2012 at 3:50PM EST
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      MattH @Alan, I'm pretty sure Alton was a made-for-TV-character, hence his less ridiculous name...

      May 14, 2012 at 4:57PM EST
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      tijde Aren't names like that a trope in the fantasy genre? Maybe that joke is overused (I don't think so, because it's more a shortcut than a joke anyway), but to call that kind of thing bullying seems rather alarmist. Bullying is really serious stuff. Being mean doesn't qualify.

      May 15, 2012 at 3:54AM EST
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    brucelee666

    Wanted to say I agree with mathiew. This whole show is about perception. as far as i can tell jaime is one of the few charactars who hasnt lied. he has done evil things but i dont think he thinks himself honorable, i think he mock and scoffs at the very notion of it even exsisting. by the way he talks cat about ned i think hes implying not that hes more honorable than ned, but that such the idea of honor or knighthoood implies perfection which in itself can not exsist and is asanine.

    May 14, 2012 at 4:05AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Matthew Yep, it is about perception. Just take an episode a few weeks ago. Where the guy in the streets of Kings Landing was shouting about how Tyrion is some demon monkey. That's what the realm sees Tyrion as, just some dwarf monster who is helping corrupt Joffery. Not what he really is, right now the only true protector of King's Landing.

      And here, Jaime is perceived as a man with no honor. Hes the Kingslayer, he broke his oath, and no matter the reasons(honor to his family first seems like it, due to what he said to Cat)the people of the realm take him as an oathbreaker with little honor. When I think the case is different, it may not seem like there is much there to it, but I certainly think there is.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:15AM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r I'm glad to realize I'm not the only person who sees Jaime as not just black and white and therefore evil. I think he is a complicated character and one truly I enjoy. I've rather been disappointed with his minor role this entire season as I really enjoy the actor playing him as well. Jaime certainly has his flaws and is portrayed as a main antagonist towards the Starks and all things honorable in Westeros, but that doesn't mean that is his true role. I like his disarming comments towards Kat (even though it eventually led to arming her!) about honor. Very interesting.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:19AM EST
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    Slartibartfatsdomino

    Has the show given us any sense of whether Joffrey knows he is the bastard son of Jaime? If not, how much crueler would he become if he finds out?

    May 14, 2012 at 4:11AM EST Reply to Comment
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      brucelee666 I honestly dont see how he could get much crueler... and no...

      May 14, 2012 at 4:16AM EST
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      keith I'm sure he knows. Generally, everyone knows everything, it's just a case of how much you're willing to admit.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:32AM EST
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      Slartibartfatsdomino Oh yeah. I had totally forgotten that scene. Although now that you've reminded me of it, makes me think that it accounts for more of Joffrey's cruelty, which has been getting worse it seems to me.

      May 14, 2012 at 4:33AM EST
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      Kelvin I think Joffrey believes he is Robert's son. He certainly doesn't seem to view recovering Jaime as much of a priority, and though he is quick to criticize both Jaime and Tywin for their failures on the battlefield, he has never said anything disparaging about Robert. In fact, he removed the tongue of that singer who mocked Robert. Beyond that, I get the sense that he feels really entitled to his role as king. He doesn't view himself as an impostor.

      May 14, 2012 at 5:12AM EST
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      W.A.Wilson Yes it has. In the first episode of the second season Joffrey confronts Cersei by saying "I heard a nasty rumor about you and Uncle Jaime" Cersei denies it but you can tell by Joffrey's look that he is holding the information above her condescendingly

      May 14, 2012 at 9:56AM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r That brings up a good point about what Joffrey's and Roberts relationship was like. We know Cersei and Robert had a poor one, but all the interactions between Robert and Joffrey seemed to be okay. Joffrey looked genuinely concerned being by the side of Roberts side as he was dying (before he got kicked out for Ned and the will).

      As for Joffrey understanding the rumor, if I'm not mistaken he said something to the effect of 'well, who cares' meaning even if it is true he still is the rightful king. He likely assumes it is true, but doesn't care and probably feels some emotion for Robert, since, I'd imagine, they atleast had a normal father/song king/prince relationship. If it were terrible I'd imagine they would have hinted it at more.

      May 14, 2012 at 11:30AM EST
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      Kelvin BBQ_HAX0R, I don't think they had a healthy relationship. I think Joffrey cared about him and wanted his approval, but that Robert didn't care much for him. Remember Robert's disgust at Joffrey when Arya disarmed him. I don't think he saw much of himself in Joffrey, which makes sense given Joffrey's true parentage, but he ultimately regretted the nature of their relationship. As he was dying, he wished that he had spent more time with Joffrey and asks Ned to help him become a good man. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of that scene. And I agree that Joffrey looked genuinely concerned during that scene. I would say that Robert was probably just as responsible as Cersei for the sort of monster that Joffrey becomes. He ridiculed Joffrey for his weakness during the dire wolf affair, and that sort of interaction probably led Joffrey to despise weakness (as evidenced when he ridicules his brother for crying and other instances). Joffrey has a warped sense of what Robert wanted of him, which led to some of his more unfortunate tendencies, and Robert's lack of involvement during Joffrey's formative years left Cersei's destructive influence unchecked.

      May 14, 2012 at 12:55PM EST
    • Machoman_talkback_profile

      bbq_hax0r Good points Kelvin, you're probably right. Thanks!

      May 14, 2012 at 7:07PM EST
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    John

    Too much talking not enough action. Where's the blood and glory? I get it, a game of power is being played amongst the elite. Now show me the fighting.

    May 14, 2012 at 4:25AM EST Reply to Comment
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      W.A.Wilson You know nothing, Jon Snow

      May 14, 2012 at 9:57AM EST
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      Varys Well, according to Tyrion, Stannis and his forces are 4-5 days away from King's Landing. Theon said his sister and Robb's relief forces are on their way to Winterfell. We've finally got out first look at a buttload of Wildlings north of the Wall. So that's 3 potential battles the story may take us to, though I'm sure the show's budget means if more than one of them occur, we won't see them all.

      May 14, 2012 at 10:45PM EST
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      BC Well I agree that it's too bad that the show has skipped over some of the battles for budgetary reasons, I think you miss the point of the show if you're just looking for the blood and gore. Go watch Spartacus if you want stylized 300-esque violence.

      May 21, 2012 at 3:55PM EST
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