Film Festival

'Lost' - 'Across the Sea': Raised by another

The secret origin of Jacob and Smokey, as told by Allison Janney

'Lost' - 'Across the Sea': Raised by another

Brother against brother on "Lost."

Credit: ABC/Mario Perez

A review of tonight's "Lost" coming up just as soon as I trash your loom...

"Every question I answer will simply lead to another question." -Mother

"So, do you want to play or don't you, Jacob?" -Smokey
"Yes. I want to play." -Jacob

"You will never be able to leave this island." -Mother
"That's not true. And one day I can prove it." -Smokey

"I have no idea because you wouldn't tell me, mother." -Smokey

You want answers? You think you're entitled? Well here are a bunch of them, all packed into a one-hour "Lost" flashback extravaganza that taught us the following:

  • Jacob and Smokey are twin brothers, born to a woman who was then murdered by the island's unnamed guardian so she would be able to rear two potential successors, then choose between them.
  • Smokey is determined to get off the island because he spent a childhood being lied to by his "mother" about the rest of the world, and has been spending centuries trying to prove her wrong.
  • The island is home to a glowing body of water that is basically The Force (making all of Darlton's pre-season talk of midi-chlorians make much more sense).
  • The "rules" between Jacob and Smokey date back to Mother tapping into the island's powers to ensure neither could ultimately kill the other. (And if these are the same rules that govern the Ben/Widmore war, then are we meant to think Ben is more of a candidate than anyone's been led to believe?)
  • The crazy mother Smokey referred to earlier this season wasn't John Locke's schizophrenic mom, but the obsessive, homicidal, superhuman woman who raised him so many centuries ago.
  • The donkey wheel - which taps into the power behind the golden spring - was constructed by Smokey as one of his many futile attempts to get off the island (and was not, for that matter, his first attempt to build such a thing).
  • The Man in Black was turned into a smoke monster when Jacob, distraught over his brother committing matricide, threw him into the golden spring, which Mother had warned him was "much worse" than dying.
  • The Adam & Eve corpses Jack and Kate found back in season one are the original remains of Man in Black and Mother, left lying in their old cave home by Jacob, along with a black and white piece from the game of senet that the brothers loved to play together. (And making the skeletons less Adam & Eve than Cain & Eve.)

and, perhaps, most importantly:

  • After years of watching characters suffer at the hands of neglectful, abusive or downright homicidal fathers and father figures, we discover that the "Lost" mythology is ultimately fueled by mommy issues - by one son betrayed to learn that who he thought was his mother murdered the real one, and by another who never got over the belief that mom always liked Smokey best.

Or, rather, we find that "Lost" is ultimately about the dangers of withholding answers from people who have spent years demanding them.

"Across the Sea" was a huge info-dump about the secrets of the island and the origins of the two all-powerful beings whose war brought all our heroes to the place, but it was also a strong three-character piece, so wonderfully played by Allison Janney, Mark Pellegrino and, especially, Titus Welliver, that I was okay with not seeing a single regular castmember (other than Jack, Kate and Locke in old footage from "House of the Rising Sun"), even at such a crucial late juncture of the season/series.

Darlton have always insisted that "Lost" is a show about character first and weird mysteries second, and this shift in the final season to the story of Jacob vs. Smokey - two god-like figures moving our heroes around a board like backgammon pieces but not really having personalities of their own (much of what personality Smokey has seemed to be copied from Locke)  - seemed to violate that conceit. So it was important to bring their conflict back down to more human proportions. We had to see that that before he was a smoke monster, Smokey was just a man, and before that just a boy(*), who had spent a lifetime being lied to, manipulated and hurt, all while being told it was all for his own good and the good of the island he was trapped on. We had to understand that once upon a time, Jacob and Smokey were the best of friends, not just because they had no other choice but because they loved each other and enjoyed each other's company, and that in a way they're as much pawns in the island's game as Jack or Locke or Ben. The Lost-aways are still being manipulated by forces beyond their comprehension, but they're no longer forces beyond ours. We know what Jacob and his still-unnamed brother(**) are about, and that they're driven as much by old family grudges as they are by whatever is powering Craphole Island.

(*) And man, did Welliver do a superb job of bringing that all home in the scene at the donkey wheel construction site. Mother says she wants to say goodbye, and suddenly the Man in Black is the Boy in Black again, who just wants the love of a mother (even if she isn't really his mother) and would love to be able to forget the knowledge that sent him on this angry quest.

(**) And at this stage of the game, is there a point to concealing his name? Do Darlton just want us to think of the 21st century version of the character as Smokey and/or Locke? Are they annoyed that fans so quickly rushed to call him Esau last spring? Or are they just enjoying withholding one last piece of easily-revealed but non-essential information from us?

A very good episode, if not always the most subtle (I wonder if Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse started challenging each other to insert more and more black-and-white imagery as the script went from one draft to the next), and one that should give more emotional resonance to Smokey's rampage over the series' final three and a half hours.

I can't help coming back, though, to Smokey's frustration that Mother wouldn't just come right out and tell him and Jacob in plain English about the spring, the island, the rules, etc. - and to the idea that she died without fully explaining things to Jacob. (Though it's possible that him drinking the wine from the bottle that made him and Mother "the same" told him all he needed to know.) Cuselof have spent nearly six seasons teasing and frustrating us with questions that are posed and not answered, or ones whose answers inspire seven questions, or situations where characters could very easily choose to explain things to each other but choose not to. They talk a lot about how this is dramatically necessary - that scenes where characters share information are tedious, and that sometimes the most revealing character moments come when people are trying and failing to get answers.

But in watching an episode where we find out just how much of the suffering we've seen on the island might have been avoided if Mother had just come clean to her boys early and often (or, even better, not brained their biological mother with a rock), I'm sorely tempted to play psychoanalyst and wonder if, at the end, the duo are looking back over all the obfuscating they've done over the last six years and questioning whether it was the wisest course of action.

When you answer a question, you take away the suspense that comes from waiting for that answer, but you also rob that question of its power over the listener. Had Mother told Smokey the full truth about herself and the island, maybe he would have run away and started digging for electromagnetic spots, but maybe he would have recognized the rightness of her cause and become the dutiful son and successor she wanted. And had Darlton been less stingy with information (and/or more stingy with raising more and more questions), maybe the fan focus at the end of the run would be less on demanding answers and more on paying attention to the character arcs that the showrunners insist are the true heart of the series.

And I hope by the time we get through the finale, the fans are more kindly disposed towards Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof (who co-wrote this one) than Smokey was to Mother - both because they're nice guys who don't deserve a metaphorical stabbing, and because it would mean they gave us a satisfying close to the saga.

Some other thoughts:

  • I liked the use of the old "Hunt for Red October" trick where we start off with characters speaking in a foreign language with subtitles, then after a few minutes and a noticeable pause, we shift into hearing it as English - not because that's what the characters are speaking, but to keep us from having to read subtitles for an hour.
  • James Poniewozik pointed out on Twitter that the game Smokey and Jacob were playing is the ancient Egyptian game of senet, considered by many to be the oldest board game in the world - and one where nobody in contemporary society is entirely sure of the rules.
  • The existence of a Claudia ghost who could speak to Smokey and tell him the truth about Mother continues the idea that there is no grand unified field theory of the island - that even if there's a power that wants Mother and her successors to guard the golden well and the electromagnetic pockets that lead to it, there are other powers on the island that are either in opposition or don't much care.
  • Still more stolen babies. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
  • Can someone with a better sense of Craphole Island topography tell me if the golden spring is supposed to lie in the same location where The Others built the Temple? Given what the water did to Smokey, it doesn't seem like the sort of healing pool Dogen and Lennon talked about, but it seems odd that one mystical island would have two entirely unrelated pools of yellow, magical water, no?

Finally, I hope to have something very interesting related to this episode and the final season of the show up on the blog sometime in the late afternoon, so check back then.

What did everybody else think?

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

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Next 330 Comments
  • Default-avatar

    aj

    This was easily the most disappointing episode of television I've ever watched. What a shame.

    May 11, 2010 at 11:57PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Default-avatar

      Rich Questions:
      Why can’t there be more than one Guardian? The twin brothers could have guarded the island together.

      Did the Man in Black turn into Smokey or did his entry into the golden spring release Smokey? We are shown the Man in Black’s corpse which ends up as one of the skeletons Jack and Kate find in the cave. Smokey has displayed the ability to take the form of dead people. So isn’t it possible that the Man in Black has been dead all this time and Smokey is only assuming his form?

      I don’t think Smokey is actually the unnamed brother. Smokey is something that has been released from below. The murderous mother and Jacob were guarding the island from outsiders as much as guarding the outside from Smokey.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:14AM EST
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      Scott J. Rich, I think she said only one of them would be the guardian because only one of them was "special" - the Boy in Black. She had always intended for it to be him.

      Since Jacob and his brother could not kill each other, I think it is clear that the Man in Black is not dead. As their mother said, the Light didn't kill him. Therefore it transformed him. His human body is empty, but he is still alive, as Smokey.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:29AM EST
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      Shawn I don't think it matters which one of them the mother wanted or liked more, the Island chose, as it always does. She wasn't happy about one of the boys not being the chosen one, but she knew all along only one of them would succeed her. Maybe they are setting us up to show us that the person we might want to be the guardian is not going to be it.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:56AM EST
    • Easter_hunt__beach__various_march_053_talkback_profile

      Krolin10 Re:Scott J.: I agree with you on Smokey/MIB. But let me change it a little and see what you think:
      No, MIB did not die, i.e. his soul was not destroyed. But his body died, which was obvious. I contend that he was thrown down the golden well/hole and that the smoke monster "ate" his soul, thereby releasing Smokey onto the Island. Smokey is a conglomeration of the souls he has "eaten". They are trapped within his blackness. If he ever gets off the Island (UnLocke), he will "eat" the souls of everyone in the "real world." The MIB is not the original MIB: he is Smokey, who has all of MIB's memories (along with everyone else who has ever died on the island, I think).

      May 12, 2010 at 12:05PM EST
    • Easter_hunt__beach__various_march_053_talkback_profile

      Krolin10 Re:Shawn: "Maybe they are setting us up to show us that the person we might want to be the guardian is not going to be it."
      I disagree. I believe that it was MIB's destiny to be the protector, and the Island has been trying to "correct" this ever since. I believe that John Locke will be resurrected and take his "rightful" place as protector. I believe Jack is more closely related to Jacob's character, just like Locke is most closely related to MIB's character, although I don't quite know how Jack will fit into all of this. Something tells me Jack will be the "right hand man" to Locke the way Jacob was "supposed" to be the right hand man of the original MIB.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:09PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Scott J. @Krolin10: From what we've seen, in the Lost universe, death does not mean one's soul is destroyed. Death is the spirit leaving the body, becoming incorporeal, either roaming the earth unseen or moving on. So, in my view, the Man in Black did not die, i.e. he is still corporeal, can be touched and seen by everyone (not just "special" people).

      I don't think the Smoke Monster existed before MIB. It was the Light, which was not alive but had the potential to be. It was like an empty body waiting to be born.

      The reason I don't buy Smokey as a conglomeration of souls is that people like Christian Shephard and John Locke were dead well before their bodies came to the Island, and so their spirits had long left their bodies. So how could Smokey "eat" their souls?

      May 12, 2010 at 2:45PM EST
    • Easter_hunt__beach__various_march_053_talkback_profile

      Krolin10

      @Scott J.: I agree with your first part. I disagree with your statement that Smokey did not exist before MIB. I believe that the point of the Protector is to contain SMokey within his "golden cell" (the light) and that Smokey was released once the MIB was shoved into the hole by Jacob. As for your last statement, I agree that it doesn't make sense that if Smokey is a "soul eater" then how would he eat Christian's and John Lockes...I don't really have a good answer for this, but I don't think Smokey took the form of Christian (even though Smokey told Jack that he did). We know that other forces are at work on this island, not just Smokey. As for John Locke, I don't know how Smokey manifests as Locke if we are assuming Smokey can only assume the identities of those that he kills or dies on the island. I don't have a good answer for that. I just have a hunch that Locke will be resurrected from the dead and that he is directly related to the original MIB (not Smokey).

      May 12, 2010 at 4:23PM EST
    • Rich brooked my question. It seems to me that 'the dark one' for lack of a name, was never inherently evil like we get from smokey, and the scene where they were boys and the ghost of his mother (a trick we know smokey to use) came to him disputes the fact that the dark one IS smokey but says rather that, with the dark one dead, evidenced by his skeletal remains, smokey was free to use his form.

      It would seem to me that since the mother showed up before the son was even a man, and she was clearly a ghost, and the dark one was not yet EVIL, smokey was already on the island and a separate entity.

      May 14, 2010 at 10:23AM EST
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      John @aj I actually enjoyed the episode. But I can't help kind of sympathizing with Smokey. I mean, other than Mother simply saying it is so, what evidence is there that she and Jacob are on the right side of things on this?

      I kind of felt the same thing when Smokey as Locke kept saying that he wasn't all that bad of a guy and that he just wanted off the island. Granted he did try to orchestrate the death of all the Lost-aways eventually, but is that any more sinister than Mother crushing the twins' actual mom's skulls? Or Widmore torturing and killing people in the name of whatever it is that he's after?

      What evidence do we have that Smokey is all that bad of a guy other than the fact that he sporadically travels as an abstract amorphous malignancy?

      May 14, 2010 at 3:35PM EST
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      AP @scott J.

      I believe that smokey can be Locke and Christian because their souls have not been put to rest before their bodies arriving at the island. Didn't someone say in a past episode "we have to hurry and bury the bodies"? Hence why smokey never shows up as Boone, Mr. Ecko etc etc.

      May 18, 2010 at 6:36PM EST
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    Tom Dickinson

    I think MIB's lack-of-a-name is actually important. Lots of things on this show lack names: the Island, the Others, the Sickness, the Monster... now Mother and MIB. Perhaps namelessness is a more primordial state of being, which is why Mother preferred MIB over Jacob.

    May 11, 2010 at 11:57PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Patti The dead mother thought there was only one baby, so she didn't have a name for baby #2. He never got a name. They aren't keeping it from us, he simply was not named.

      May 12, 2010 at 9:02AM EST
    • Titus_talkback_profile

      semicolwin but you don't think at some point Mother would give him a name? I figure they'd get sick of saying, "hey you" all the time.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:13AM EST
    • Easter_hunt__beach__various_march_053_talkback_profile

      Krolin10 Re: Naming MIB. I theorized in another thread that the reason MIB was not given a name is because the writers don't want to spoil what I think is the big surprise: that John Locke will be resurrected on the Island and take his rightful place as Island protector. I believe that MIB's name is John. I believe that, like MIB, John Locke is "destined" to be the protector...and just like MIB, he was sabotaged and did not fulfill his destiny. The Island will correct this through Desmond. Desmond's role will be to get smokey back down his hole, to "entrap" him again (Desmond is the only one that can withstand the electormagnetism) thereby allowing Locke to guard the golden hole/well. MIB and Locke are the same (which is why Smokey was so creeped out by Desmond saying "You're John Locke" when Smokey asked him "Do you know who I am?"). And as for Jacob...he was supposed to be the right hand man of MIB. I think that will be Jack's role when Locke becomes protector.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:15PM EST
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      Matt I think you'll find out his name is Aaron, the only other baby, as far as we know, to be born on the island. It makes sense since everything seems to be cyclical in LOST and Claire can't really surmise why she chose the name it jus kind of came out. IDK thats my theory anyway. Also, I wasn't nearly as disappointed as most people seem to be with the episode I just think it should have taken place much earlier in the season.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:58PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Scott J. Perhaps Mother saw their namelessness as a mark of their specialness. They did not need names, because, in her world, there was only she and he. Everyone else was an other, including Jacob.

      May 12, 2010 at 2:10PM EST
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      becky Alex Rousseau and Ethan Rom represent some of the other people who were born on the Island. It's interesting to me that neither Jacob nor MIB were conceived on the Island, when the "[pregnancy] sickness" seems to have to do with full-term on-Island pregnancies. I'd have thought we could get to the bottom of something somewhere last night. At any rate, it's awesome that MIB was the favorite. It's rare to see the black piece in a good light, you know?

      May 12, 2010 at 2:52PM EST
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      Tuesday @Matt Miles was also born on the island, and I believe so was Charlotte.
      Considering that Juliette was able to successfully deliver babies when the Losties were living with Dharma in the 70s, the inability for babies to be born seems to be something that started only after the atomic bomb was set off.

      May 12, 2010 at 6:36PM EST
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    Brian

    After going back and watching episode 1x06, the scene they flashed back has continuity errors. In that scene Kate and Jack find two bodies, they are not lying next to each other but are separated, one is on a ledge and one is below. Jack also hints by their clothes decomposition that they have been there for ~40/50 years... continuity error?

    May 11, 2010 at 11:57PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Larry C I thought of that as well: I distinctly remembered the bodies were not that old; certainly not hundreds if not thousands of years old.

      May 12, 2010 at 7:37AM EST
    • But time is not the same in the island as everywhere else, for once. And, caves tend to conserve tissues better

      May 12, 2010 at 11:58AM EST
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      Brian I can deal with the time issue, but the fact that the bodies were separated in season 1, but laid next to each other in both episodes they were seen in season 6 just seems odd to me. I have a hard time believing they could be that lazy or not expect such a rabid fan base to pick up on that, but I doubt with only 2 episodes left there would be any explanation as to why they were separated in the first season.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:17PM EST
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      Hobart I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that when Tucker Gates filmed the scene he was misremembering (as did I for that matter). Once the footage was being edited together they decided to put in the flashback material, at which point the mistake was probably caught but it was too late to re-film considering the more limited availability of guest stars. So they hand wave it away as the earth shifting over centuries. If I remember correctly (which is dicey) there was even a cave in/rock slide in the cave shortly after it was discovered.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:32PM EST
    • This cannot possibly be true, or otherwise the while plot would have to have been some half-baked retrofit scripted after the fact. And we know that's not the case.

      May 12, 2010 at 2:25PM EST
    • @William, do we? I think that's exactly what's happened here. And the fact that this is one of the first if not the first flashback to an earlier episode feels like them over-reaching and trying to say "See? We had a plan all along!" when in fact, they didn't. They just were left with all these loose ends towards the end and now write to fit everything in.

      May 13, 2010 at 2:54PM EST
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    Tom

    Within a 30-second span at the wheel construction site, MIB told his mother that he was special and that he didn't belong there. I immediately tweeted that his name must be Thom Yorke.

    May 11, 2010 at 11:59PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Tom just won the thread.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:08AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      joshjs Nice work, sir!

      May 14, 2010 at 1:55AM EST
  • Mcnutty2_talkback_profile

    WhatTheFDidIDo

    The flashback to Jack and Kate finding the skeletons really pissed me off. Totally kills the mood and takes you out of the scene. It's like they didn't trust the audience at all. Really heavy-handed, completely unnecessary, and just left a bad taste in my mouth.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:01AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall Certainly, David Simon would not approve.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:03AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Hobart David Simon was my first thought when they started the flashback. Although it almost worked coming from a place of pure nostalgia.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:31AM EST
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      Greg I suspect they included the flashback as much for contractual reasons as anything else. A lot of actors have in the contracts that they have to appear in a certain number of episodes per season, and it's probably not a coincidence that the three regular characters in the flashback are also the three most prominent actors on the show.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:22AM EST
    • Tattoo_talkback_profile

      Hatfield Ha, if the Radiohead joke won the thread, Alan's response was second.

      May 12, 2010 at 2:41AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Bryan I can't agree more. It was like wearing a pink tux to a funeral, it was distasteful and out of place.

      I had little complaints over the rest, but I'm still chewing on the whole protecting the light idea.

      May 12, 2010 at 3:55AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      The Orange About 85% of Lost audience has no idea about Adam and Even who were mentioned once in passing all the way back in Season 1. Lost doesn't usually do these cut-ins but I understand why they did them here.

      May 12, 2010 at 7:16AM EST
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      mtk41 @The Orange, I would say 99.9% of the audience knew who Adam and Eve were, and that they were quite prominent as opposed to "mentioned once in passing all the way back in season 1." I understand the outcry. As viewers, we like to think we're smart enough to be aware of what's happening, and that writers don't need to explain things to us slowly like we're 4 year olds learning calculus.

      May 12, 2010 at 8:21AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      The Orange @mtk Adam and Eve were mentioned once in the entire run of the show for a grand total of 5 minutes. I can assure you that people who don't rewatch or follow the show online had no idea who they were. I watch the show with my sister who is a casual viewer and she did not remember people like Omar, Elouise and even the 4 toed statue. I'd have prefered if they hadn't used the cut-ins but I can absolutely understand why they did. They are making the show for everyone watches it... not the 15-20% who follow the show online or are die hard fans who have rewatched it.

      May 12, 2010 at 8:36AM EST
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      ChampSkins Orange, you are wrong... As Hurley made a reference to it earlier in this season. Also, the writers have not been afraid to state that they make the show for the people that follow it closely and showing the flashback scene really goes back on many things they have said about such.

      May 12, 2010 at 9:11AM EST
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      kmoorej I liked the flashback, because it reminded me of the show I used to enjoy watching.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:23AM EST
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      mtk41 I respectfully disagree you, Orange. I would say your sister is in the minority at this point, and that casual viewers are tuning into something more, well, casual! Even if I'm wrong, though, there are 3 episodes left, and I feel that the writers should be catering to the loyal fans who have watched the show for 6 years, rather than dumbing it down for casual viewers who don't know the backstory.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:27AM EST
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution There is certainly a difference between reminding the audience of something that happened within the same episode (such as that infamous Wire flashback) and reminding them of something that happened 6 years are 100+ episodes ago.

      I for one had forgot that it was Locke who uttered the "Adam and Eve" line, and seeing it again here in this context gave that moment an entirely new meaning and dramatic resonance.

      It's a common storytelling tool. Novelists do it constantly. Take several deep breaths, people, we got a long way to go still.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:29AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      mtk41 would someone please remind me when this infamous flashback occurred in The Wire?

      May 12, 2010 at 11:37AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Hobart Link to Alan's review of "The Wire" pilot when said flashback occurs:
      http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/05/wire-season-1-episode-1-target-newbies.html

      May 12, 2010 at 12:09PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      mtk41

      May 12, 2010 at 12:14PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      mtk41 Ah, thank you.

      The other thing I did not like about the flashback, btw, was that it seemed to be boastful. Like Darlton were throwing it in our face: "see, we always knew what we were doing." Well, if you always knew what it was going to be, what was the point of having jack say they'd been there for about 50-60 years?

      May 12, 2010 at 12:16PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Hobart After re-reading the interview from a few years ago that LarryC linked to ( http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html ) it seems that Cuse & Lindelof always felt they had Adam & Eve in their back pocket as proof they knew what they were doing. Which makes it even more unfortunate that they botched the details when it came time to reveal that story.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:36PM EST
    • Mcnutty2_talkback_profile

      WhatTheFDidIDo I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with the flashback if it had added ANYTHING AT ALL to the current scene/episode. But it didn't. All it did was act as a reminder that "Oh yeah, two thousand years from now Jack and Kate discover these bodies".

      At least with The Wire's flashback it added an emotional impact to the scene if you forgot who the guy was.

      And as Todd VanDerwerff said in his review:
      "I don't need the answer to every mystery to be accompanied by Lindelof and Cuse marching across the screen with a banner that reads, "ANOTHER MYSTERY SOLVED!""

      May 12, 2010 at 4:29PM EST
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution Dude. Magic island that heals people.

      Perhaps corpses don't disintegrate as fast. Besides, what does a spinal surgeon know about decomposing bodies? It was a guess based on real world-variables, not Magic Island variables.

      May 12, 2010 at 4:29PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Jen I actually enjoyed the flashback--it was a much-appreciated glimpse of our beloved characters and a sharp reminder of the days when they had no idea what the island was going to do to them. I didn't take it at all as an "aid" to make us remember the discovery of Adam and Eve.

      May 12, 2010 at 5:14PM EST
    • Mcnutty2_talkback_profile

      WhatTheFDidIDo @Jen It would have been much more tolerable in an episode that actually featured the characters shown in the flashback. But in an episode that was set hundreds of years in the past it was a jarring, distracting, and unnecessary disruption.

      Plus, they had already made a point of re-introducing the skeletons in the episode "Lighthouse" THIS season! Hurley even asks Jack how he found them and he gives a play-by-play of what happened. How many reminders did we need?

      And theirs so many better ways of giving us a glimpse of our beloved characters at a more innocent time than shoe-horning in this flashback.

      I am by no means an angry person, and generally cut this show a lot of slack, but this thing just really got under my skin.

      May 12, 2010 at 5:44PM EST
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      ryanmm37 I don't think the little flashback was "jarring" or "distracting" at all. In fact, for me at least, it placed the entire episode in context with the rest of the series. It sort of tied together how all of what we had just watched, sort of directly led to our characters coming to the island, and everything that happened during the run of the show.

      I imagine as soon as Jacob started moving the bodies, every Lost fan knew what was about to happen, and it was a nice little touch to actually see that old scene, just for a few seconds.

      May 12, 2010 at 6:28PM EST
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      JMC There's just no pleasing people - and what better example then to look just ONE thread down and see someone complain about how with just a smattering of time left would tptb waste our time w/ an episode that has none of our regular cast in it?! So you can see (esp. after reading Alan's interview w/ DL/CC) that they want to pull the story back to our actual castmates - show their growth/contrast/what-have-you, and yet it leaves you and the other person below with equally bad tastes in your mouth but for completely opposite reasons.

      I'm not making light of your disappointment, I just want to add my voice as counter to others here and state emphatically that I enjoyed the episode. The callback was nice. Didn't bother me one bit.

      May 12, 2010 at 6:33PM EST
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      The Postman Agreed !! At this point we do not need any hand holding. I hope the finale is devoid of these flashback "helps"

      May 12, 2010 at 7:21PM EST
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    Andrew

    If the show is all about the characters, rather than the mysteries, why does the third from last episode of the entire series not include a single appearance from any of the regular cast? I actually enjoyed this episode quite a lot -- but could it have run earlier in the season?

    True, it wouldn't be quite the same to establish Smokey as evil and then reveal him to be Jacob's smarter twin brother as it would have been to establish classic Smokey and then have Smokey the Locke turn evil.

    If the well/proto-donkey wheel taps into that spring, doesn't that make the spring somewhat near The Orchid station, rather than near the Temple? Or are there pockets of energy scattered throughout the Island that are just smaler bits of midichlorians.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:01AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jonah The real question is, how much of Jacob's brother is in the Smoke Monster? It seems like the answer is, quite a bit. We know the monster took Locke's and Christian's memories, but it goes beyond that with Jacob's brother; its entire motivation and personality is drawn from him. So is he dead, or alive? Is the Monster Jacob's brother, or did it kill him and take on his personality? Is he only a part of it, just its first host, and do its other victims have a share as well?

      May 12, 2010 at 12:25AM EST
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      The Orange The show is about characters, Smokey and Jacob are important characters on the show. We've just spent 14 hrs with our original characters. Surely it's not much to spend 1 hour with two characters who are at the center of the conflict in the island.

      I've heard people complain that it should have aired earlier in the season. Explain when. The earliest it could have aired is after Ab Aeterno since this episode made reference to things that were explained before that episode. It would have been too much to have two back to back format breaker episodes.

      May 12, 2010 at 7:21AM EST
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      Adam B. Why not just start the season with this one, and *then* get into the flash-sidewaysing? Or in-between The Substitute and The Lighthouse?

      May 12, 2010 at 10:13AM EST
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    Stella

    I thought it was terrible.

    They've shark-jumped their way into a corner through the series, and this was really the last straw for me. The mythology has become one long exercise in infinite regress, and I am unsatisfied.

    And, with only three episodes left, they choose to have a whole hour with no Losties?! Terrible, just terrible.

    Allison Janney, as a well known cameo, was, as all well known cameos are, distracting.

    I am wondering, though, if mother wasn't both the smoke monster and the guardian, before splitting the job between her two stolen twins?

    May 12, 2010 at 12:03AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Stella Oh, and the clunking flashback at the end was also terrible, and an insult to viewers.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:04AM EST
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      Slushy I thought this episode was terrible as well. There was maybe 10 minutes of plot stretched over an hour. I agree with other posters... this episode should have come a lot earlier in the series.

      There was a point in time when I considered LOST highbrow entertainment. Now I just watch it as entertainment... and this episode bored me to tears. The revelations were pointless and did nothing to help move the plot forward.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:14AM EST
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      mtk41 I thought the episode itself was fine (i.e. I enjoyed the story of Jacob and his brother as well-written, finely acted, standalone story), but the episode as it fits in to the entire series left much to be desired.

      May 12, 2010 at 8:13AM EST
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      Ben how can u "jump the shark" on a totally sci fi geek show? if u havent noticed lost is the most gekked out sci fi show in history. if u havent bought in by now u shouldnt watch

      May 12, 2010 at 10:37AM EST
    • Titus_talkback_profile

      semicolwin I personally liked the episode, but I just wanted to touch on your last point, Stella. I had been confused as to how the Mother would have destroyed that whole little village by herself, but the idea that she was both the Smoke Monster and the Island Protector is a good one.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:21AM EST
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution Maybe you should demand your money back, Stella.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:34AM EST
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      Shawn But for her to be the Smoke Monster, it would mean she had been in the cave, which it did not seem she had been. I like the theory though, I too wondered how she could wipe out all those people.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:46PM EST
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    lylebot

    Although Lost has never been afraid to make the audience read subtitles, I'm glad they switched to English. I don't know any Latin, but actors pretending to speak it always sound so fake to me. The rhythms and emphases just sound completely wrong. The only time it ever sounded "real" to me was when Richard answered the "shadow of the statue" question back in The Incident.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:03AM EST Reply to Comment
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      opal I found the initial switch a bit jarring -- it took me out of the show, the realization "Oh, so they're not going to make the actors speak Latin the entire episode." As the episode wore on and it became clear we weren't going to get any "present-day" scenes, switching was clearly the only option. You can't have an episode of network drama that features basically no scenes with lead characters that's also subtitled in a dead language.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:11AM EST
    • Estelle-getty_talkback_profile

      opal I haven't been the biggest Lost fan this season or over the last number of seasons, but somehow this episode had me hooked more than any episode in recent memory. Maybe it was the acting (stuntcasting aside). Maybe it just felt like we've been going farther and farther back in the mythology that a jump to the Roman era felt natural.

      I have to say, though -- the boys' Bieber hair in the first scene was a wee bit distracting and anachronistic. :)

      May 12, 2010 at 12:14AM EST
    • Estelle-getty_talkback_profile

      opal Oops. That last comment wasn't meant for lylenot. Still learning the new site!

      May 12, 2010 at 12:15AM EST
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      Herxanthikles Couldn't agree with you more. I think Richard sounded better because Latin is much closer to Spanish than English, so the accent felt more right.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:48AM EST
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    TommyB

    Damn Kate looked amazing back in the beginning of the seriers...sorry I digress...very cool episode. Very interesting that I could be captivated by 3 characters (and several new actors, Mom and the kids) that have not been central to the show.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:04AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Chris M My thoughts exactly, re: Kate. Not that Evangeline Lilly isn't still gorgeous, but holy crap did she look amazing in that flashback. Also, Jack and Locke looked super young. I don't know if it's good makeup or just Matthew Fox aging, but comparing him from season 1 to today, he almost looks like a President after two terms.

      May 12, 2010 at 7:59AM EST
    • Easter_hunt__beach__various_march_053_talkback_profile

      Krolin10 Amen about Kate. It's startling how good looking she was in season 1. It's not like she isn't good looking now, but she looked so much more youthful.

      May 12, 2010 at 10:55AM EST
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      JMC That Hawaiian sun ain't easy on the skin. :( I hope they took care of their skin for health's sake!

      May 12, 2010 at 6:36PM EST
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    eve

    So this past week I have been watching random episodes of Season 1, and after tonight's episode aired I happened to check out House of the Rising Sun, not realizing it was the episode where Jack and Kate find Adam and Eve in the caves. Here's something I didn't remember: Kate asks how old the skeletons are, and Jack guesses 50-60 years, based on the state of their clothes. So, seems like perhaps their original explanation for the skeletons, if they had one, might have been different.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:05AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Biff

    I've defended this show for a long time, but this episode really drove me into "this blows" territory. It was heavy-handed and plodding. Ya we got some "answers" but they were just deus ex machina garbage.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:05AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution This is Lost we're talking about, right? Accusing this show of being heavy-handed is like accusing the sun of being hot.

      I can count on one hand how many TV shows that have ever existed with a mythology as deep as this one, and the writers are doing the best they can to explain some pretty out-there stuff while trying to preserve dramatic tension and not completely alienate their audience. This is a very tall order, and while they haven't done a perfect job, art isn't supposed to be perfect. They are telling the story they want to tell, and doing it using the same tone and weight they have throughout the run the series.

      I don't remember there being this many whiners on Alan's old blog.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:41AM EST
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      gob put a potato in it solution, i think biff is right on and it's my sentiment exactly, jesus who didn't groan at the music and whatnot, lost usually takes itself waaaay too seriously but this one was totally over the top. answers? there were answers!?! i didn't see any besides some stupid light that they won't explain anyway, this show is so ridiculous it's not even funny anymore. can't believe i wasted so much time on this, and dear lost producers, no, i won't buy a single dvd ever of this garbage

      May 13, 2010 at 11:51PM EST
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    Mike

    I would have like this episode a lot more earlier in the season. It felt like a real speed bump after last week's developments.

    They should have intercut this story with the Ben-Widmore story. That way, the plot could keep advancing.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:05AM EST Reply to Comment
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      captainobv there is no ben/widmore story. ben as a character has been marginalized and is largely out of the picture. widmore and desmond will just be the reason they 'merge' the timelines. jack is the new jacob, blah blah. predictable and lame.

      May 12, 2010 at 7:56PM EST
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    Sonia

    Wow. Good TV tonight! I'm really looking forward to the remaining episodes!
    I am confused about something...if "adam" is smokey's body...then smokey can just change into any shape he wants now, like John Locke? So he's obviously not dead, just his body is no longer useful?

    And kids always blame their problems on their moms...grow up! LOL

    May 12, 2010 at 12:05AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution It appears that Smokey can create some kind of "copy" of a corpse, without actually animating that corpse's body (we see both Blackie and Locke's corpses after Smokey has ... possessed? ... them).

      We've also seen Smokey as Christian (so he claims), but Christian's body was never found.

      I think it's appropriate to think of Blackie and Smokey as two different beings, just like John Locke and Smokey are different. Smokey is just a whole 'nother thing altogether.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:47AM EST
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    Hobart

    My one takeaway is that I'm convinced this episode will work infinitely better when viewed as part of a marathon in which it follows quickly after last weeks episode and is followed quickly thereafter by the next.

    I was initially frustrated at the pace of the story but after watching it a second time I realized how of a piece it is with the rest of the season and the mantra of returning to the character pieces of the first season. This episode wasn't (as ABC promised) about answering big questions, it was about why Jacob and Smokey have done what they have done and in that light (and carried by three really good actors) it worked much better for me the second time through.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:06AM EST Reply to Comment
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      JMC See, now *that's* the way to view this episode! I concur with your opinion sir!

      May 12, 2010 at 6:39PM EST
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    Medrawt

    I thought it was a well-made hour of television; not sure how I feel about it in the context of the series as a whole yet.

    I did get distracted for a bit trying to sort out where the island was that two groups of people speaking Latin (assuming Janney's character was also a native speaker, and not just endowed with Island-powered Babel Fish) wrecked ashore - somewhere between 500 BC and 300 AD, I presumed. And while I accepted the Hunt for Red October trick, I was distracted (I tend to be distracted by this sort of thing) when Janney whispered something in what sounded like Latin (didn't go back and try to translate it) in the middle of a Latin-as-English conversation with Jacob.

    Also, when Jacob drank the wine, my first thought was: "It's like Carnivale! Now he knows everything there is to know, and we still don't know a damn thing!" But maybe not. As a jaded audience member I like the idea that Darlton was reflecting on the problems of withholding information for no good reason, but as a would-be critic I feel like, if that was their intention, it was sort of weak, and while I hate to make the comparison because I don't want to invite finale-complaints, one thing I thought Battlestar did extremely well in the homestretch was dramatize a situation where people did have completely understandable reasons for withholding information from each other, and refusing to try and talk to each other, with disastrous results. I'd almost rather Darlton just continues to play out the hand they dealt themselves.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:07AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Larry C Thanks for the Carnivale pickup! I knew I had seen this before, but didn't remember where!

      May 12, 2010 at 7:41AM EST
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    Tim

    I'm shocked that you gave this thing such a pass Alan. I've been known to be a Lost apologist at times, but I just can't get around how seemingly pointless this was. There's no way they needed to use an entire hour at the end of the series on something you'd find late at night on the syfy channel.

    I wish I had one of those Men in Black mind eraser things. Nothing to see here!

    May 12, 2010 at 12:07AM EST Reply to Comment
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      ZJG I agree. Looking at the overall narrative, OK. I think this episode was decent, but probably confusing in places that weren't intended to be. But as a piece of writing, it was pretty disappointing. "What's death?" That's sort of an interesting concept, although it's hard to believe that a 13-year-old kid on an island filled with living things (insects, birds, boars), wouldn't have stumbled upon this sort of question earlier in his life. UGH. Just one example, obviously. but UGH.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:16AM EST
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      Barry Z i have to agree. obviously, huge kudos to Allen for getting his recap up faster than almost anyone else, so it's just his first impression as well.

      but this was not a strong Lost episode (in terms of furthering the story, which is almost over) - it was an excellent showcase for the actors playing Jacob and MIB (CJ from the West Wing speaking Latin in a midwestern twang? not so much).

      things don't feel like they're knitting together. didn't care about the answers we got tonight, esp since they weren't answers that made any damn sense. guess we'll keep our fingers crossed for an amazing last two eps.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:03AM EST
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution The Syfy channel does not have actors as good as Janney, Pellegrino, and Welliver. If you couldn't enjoy those performances from three seasoned pros, then, I don't know what to tell you.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:51AM EST
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    mdg

    A commenter on Reddit pointed this out:

    "Smokey is the light that Jacob is sworn to protect. Smokey's ambition since the age of 13 has been to leave the island. Jacob believes that something terrible will happen if he fails to do his job, therefore, his brother can not be allowed to leave the island.

    If this is the case, I am pleased that this is not a good/evil dichotomy at all. In fact, I found myself sympathizing with Smokey more than Jacob in this episode. He simply realized that his entire life, up to that point, had been based on a murder and lies... he simply wanted truth and to see his people's world. Where Jacob is a man of faith, Smokey is a man of science. This is also interesting to me because this definitely explains Smokey's low opinion of John Locke. I think that he saw a lot of Jacob in him."

    May 12, 2010 at 12:08AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Scott J. Absolutely. Going in, I expected this episode to establish some moral clarity in Jacob & Smokey's story, but instead we saw the lines blurred even more, and I loved it. I don't think we can call them good & evil now. They're just terribly screwed up in different ways. Excellent.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:31AM EST
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      VisionOn I've never that Smocke was evil. For all the characters on the show he is the only one who made his intentions known. He even warned the temple folk before attacking.

      Smocke has always seemed like someone who was just tired of everything to me and had one goal. To leave the place he was cursed to live on.

      Unfortunately everyone he seems to meet betrays him to some extent even after he saves or revives them. Case in point, last week when they left in the sub despite the fact he was the only reason they got there. If I was Smocke I'd blow them up too.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:55AM EST
    • Mcnutty2_talkback_profile

      WhatTheFDidIDo Makes sense because after the smoke monster was released, the light in the cave went out. Jacob is determined to keep him on the island because he promised his mother he would protect the light.

      The smoke monster isn't truly "evil". Jacob just described him that way to Richard (who in turn described him that way to everyone else and the story was passed on until Dogen heard a version that described him as "evil incarnate") because it was easier than saying, "Well their used to be a cave with a light in it. And the light was the heart of the island, and if the light went out the universe ends. And I used to have a brother...".

      Also Jacob telling Richard he was pure evil, besides being simpler, is much scarier and will make the people a lot more inclined to help his cause of keeping him there.

      May 12, 2010 at 3:43AM EST
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      mtk41 Evil is as evil does ;)

      We may sympathize with Smokey (like Lucifer in Paradise Lost), but that doesn't mean he's not evil.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:23PM EST
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      gina64 This is a really good point. If I understand things correctly,

      MIB = Man of Science who desperately wants to get off the Island = Jack
      and
      Jacob = Man of Faith who wants to stay and protect the Island = Locke

      So it's almost like they've put a mirror up to these pairings and reversed them and now MIB *is* Locke and Jack may very well end up replacing Jacob.

      Whoa!

      May 12, 2010 at 2:13PM EST
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    Chrissy

    I know it is beyond silly to continue asking questions at this point, but goshdarnnit if this info-dump didn't just lead to more (as Mother knew it would, I suppose). I'd still like to know what Jacob told Richard the island was, since I still don't know. The light is magical, obviously, and presumably Mother is magical as well. I guess I can accept that, although something a little less vague would be nicer. But what exactly is worth protecting about the light? Mother insists that there is nothing across the sea, so when she says the light is in everyone she means, what, the 15 random people who happen to live on the island with them? Once Jacob discovers that there are many, many things across the sea, why is it so important to protect a well of light that is the source of one measly island (one measly island which kills people, over and over and over). Is he as crazy as Mother now?

    This episode does lend credence to the theory that Smokey and Widmore are in secret cahoots, though, which could make for an interesting ending. But I can't say I feel particularly satisfied.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:08AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Titus_talkback_profile

      semicolwin I'm gonna try to answer some of these, but mind you, these are only my interpretations.

      I believe Jacob told Richard the Island is a cork. I know that many people have speculated that Richard meant something else when he asked Hurley to ask Jacob what the Island is, but I simply believe that Richard knew, if Hurley was really talking to Jacob, that he would say it was a cork. It wouldn't have been a revelation for us, since we saw Ab Aterno, but Richard realizes none of the Losties know this piece of information, so it was a way to test the validity of Hurley's claim to be talking to Jacob.

      And second, I believe the light on the Island, as Alan said, is like The Force. It resides in ALL people, not just those on the Island itself. Therefore, people show up, realize there is this power here, and it corrupts them. "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt." I'm working through a thought in my head on how this light relates to the scale of good and evil inside everyone, but I haven't been able to fully tease out that concept yet.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:53AM EST
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      Chrissy I agree that we are meant to think of the light as a Force-type thing. But Mother purposely let her boys believe there was nothing out there for this Force to inhabit. A force that only powers one island just doesn't seem very meaningful. Since Mother hates people, I'm not even sure I understand why she wants to protect it. I guess I just found it very vaguely described, and therefore not very meaningful, and Mother and Jacob's motives in relation to it muddily drawn.

      I'm interested in your theory about light's relation to good and evil - it certainly doesn't seem wholly good (considering it birthed a smoke monster).

      May 12, 2010 at 1:23PM EST
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    desmondrules

    Hi this is desmondrules, yes the same one from The star ledger.

    I just want to say that I felt betrayed when you left the Star Ledger with 4 episodes left on lost, but now that I have found your column again I have been placated. Thank you so much for your reviews I always enjoy them.

    Loved this episode. The original man in black was a great character too bad Jacob changed him into Smocke (Smokey/Locke)

    May 12, 2010 at 12:11AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Alex

    I don't know about you Alan, but Lost is starting to almost feel like a chore to me. I mean this episode is great, but kind of sad.
    Lost had the possibly of going down in history as one of the best shows of all time. Now i feel that it will be forgotten by the general masses in a few years.

    just my 2cents

    May 12, 2010 at 12:11AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Justin

    I am not at all convinced that Smokey actually IS Jacob's brother any more than he's John Locke.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:12AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Keyes Why not? Everything has pointed to the conclusion that MIB is Smokey. Smocke tells Kate he had a crazy mother. He tells everyone he wants to get off the island. Smocke informs Richard that Jacob stole his body.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:34AM EST
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    Brett

    It seemed to me that this episode established the Man in Black never had a name. I'm cool with that though, it adds to his mystique.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:17AM EST Reply to Comment
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    SWG

    Just embarrassingly cheesy. It made me ashamed to be a fan of the show. I'd never seen Janney before but if this was indicative of her work I don't understand why she has such a good reputation. She didn't seem like a good actress.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:18AM EST Reply to Comment
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      gregm91436 Janney is known primarily for seven seasons' worth of amazing work on "The West Wing" as smart, savvy press secretary C.J. Craig; I agree that she was not as up to snuff here, because I don't think Carlton & Damon gave her as much to work with as Aaron Sorkin.

      May 12, 2010 at 2:08AM EST
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    Flap Jackson

    This is where the LOST fans are separated. Do you go with your Jack side and trust that Damon & Carlton have everything worked out, or do you go with your Sawyer side and run for the hills screaming your six years has now been wasted.

    I personally still trust them, especially since the episode seemed to be hanging too much to make a firm judgement, but a lot of people I know are now quickly going with their Sawyer side.

    Still, I thank you Alan for helping explain to me, because for the first time is LOST history, I didn't really get what just happened in the episode. Was the episode answer-heavy, or was it just full of half-answers, facts you never really asked about & metaphors possibly posing as answers?

    Still, I reserve most judgement on the episode until the series is over at this point.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:18AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Larry C I think: "It was just full of half-answers, facts you never really asked about & metaphors possibly posing as answers"

      May 12, 2010 at 7:45AM EST
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      Larry C I guess what made me so disappointed in this episode was the attempt to answer a question (which I never asked, by the way) with another question:
      Q: How did Jacob & the MiB get their powers? A: from a woman with special powers.
      This of course begets a potentially infinite set of questions: How did the woman get her powers? etc....

      Just generally unhappy with this line of storytelling. No point wasting an hour on questions that don't need to be answered.

      May 12, 2010 at 8:53AM EST
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      Larry C Folks, it's worth re-reading this interview (from 2007) with D & C where they talk about Adam & Eve:
      http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html

      May 12, 2010 at 8:58AM EST
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      Larry C Folks, it's worth re-reading this interview (from 2007) with D & C where they talk about Adam & Eve:
      http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html

      (Sorry for the double-post; the first got put as a reply to someone but I think it should stand on its own)

      May 12, 2010 at 9:00AM EST
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      Col Bat Guano Of all the mysteries of the island, who Adam and Eve were wasn't near the top of the list. In fact it wasn't even on the list so put me in the "facts you never really asked about" camp.

      May 13, 2010 at 12:14PM EST


  • Wow! What an episode. I loved it, but the naysayers are already out in full force. Whatever, it's not like we didn't expect it.

    I don't remember the Temple's pool having a yellow light under it, I'll have to rewatch that part.

    You can see my full video review for the episode @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEzlqzy85m8

    May 12, 2010 at 12:22AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Kensington

    Eh, I enjoyed it. There's no way in Hell this thing is going to wrap up in a satisfying manner, but after the turd sandwich that was Battlestar Galactica's finale, I've learned to lower my expectations..

    May 12, 2010 at 12:25AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Ryan W Actually, I think tonight further solidified the comparisons between the two shows' endings. Both shows, in my mind at least, went interesting places in their final episodes. Unfortunately for their viewers, both final sets of episodes suffered from some sloppy execution which rob them of some of their impact. I am still trying to figure out why we had 4-5 episodes set at the damn Temple.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:43AM EST
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      JWIII My guess with the temple is they felt obligated to show it after name dropping it so much.

      I agree BSG was a turd sandwich ending but I think this show has shaped much superior and will end on a more conclusive note because they're not milking with it another show ala Caprica.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:47AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington Eh, my comment is probably too harsh. I know that series finales often disappoint, even when they are outstanding (e.g., "The Shield"). When a show has gone on for years and has to deal with all the variables that necessarily ensue, it's going to be very hard to pull off something strong and seamless.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:04AM EST
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      jenfullmoon I think we'll probably be debating whether or not BSG or Lost ended worst for years to come. I really don't expect the ending of this to be remotely satisfying by now, unfortunately.

      May 12, 2010 at 6:08PM EST
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    M

    I think my feelings about this episode and this season in general are best expressed by "Party Down's" Roman: "Dragons are fantasy. If there’s magical talismans or a magic sword or wizards or f**king crazy not-real animals--all these basic things that break laws of reality: that s**t’s all fantasy. I’m into hard sci-fi. Fantasy is bulls**t."

    May 12, 2010 at 12:28AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Tps_talkback_profile

      PotatoSolution This show has had fantasy elements since the pilot.

      May 12, 2010 at 11:56AM EST
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    tinmanic

    This episode was a huge disappointment. It ranks down there with "Stranger in a Strange Land." On its own, it was okay, but three episodes before the series finale? Not at all. I don't care about Jacob and his brother. I care about the characters we've come to know and love over the last six years: Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Ben, Desmond. We have very little time left with our beloved Losties, and *this* is what we get instead?

    Answers are nice, but I don't really watch this show for answers. I watch it for the terrific characters. They could have explained the origins of Adam and Eve in about 15 minutes. Or in a two-minute monologue from Jacob.

    And anyway, all we get are more questions. Where did Mother come from? What's with the golden light?

    And did Jacob's brother turn into the Smoke Monster, or did the Smoke Monster pre-exist, and it just took the form of Jacob's brother once the brother died, just as with Locke and Christian etc.?

    I could have dealt with this as a DVD bonus feature. But not at the very end, and certainly not the expense of the people whose lives we've come to know over the last six years.

    Very disappointed that one of the last hours of "Lost" was wasted on this.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:29AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Barackobama_high_talkback_profile

      JWIII Does it really matter what the golden light is?

      All that matter is it's special.

      Some will call it god, some will call it energy.

      We don't need to know it's specifics.

      But, we do know more about it than that. We've learned plenty about the island's scientific properties, the light, from the Dharma initiative.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:34AM EST
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      m Was I the only one who assumed the golden light was Marcellus Wallace's soul?

      May 12, 2010 at 12:39AM EST
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      Hobart "Very disappointed that one of the last hours of "Lost" was wasted on this."

      Wasted in what way? Cuse & Lindelof have a set amount of story left to tell. If you cut this episode, its not like it was going to get replaced by anything else, we would just be one hour closer to the end. So if the choice is between this episode, which did an enormous amount for Jacob and Smokey as characters, versus a week off (or a filler Kate episode) I pick Across the Sea.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:41AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington Ha ha! No, m; I, too, thought of Marcellus Wallace's soul when I saw the glowing pool.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:06AM EST
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      Chrissy @Hobart: that's a false choice. You're saying there is nothing else in the entire universe of Lost that the writers could have done an episode about here? I'm interested in Desmond's story, what's going on with Miles, Richard and Ben, Eloise's involvement in all of this, even Ilana's backstory. None of those would necessarily be better, but they also wouldn't necessarily be worse.

      I don't feel like this was a waste, exactly, myself - I did want to know some history on those two. But, other than the specifics of MiB's crazy mother issues, I don't feel like I know much more than I did before the episode aired. I could have gone my whole life without knowing who Adam and Eve were, and random yellow light does not exactly scintillate. I'm in the "Eh" camp, regarding this episode. Not great in terms of story, but moderately saved by some decent performances.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:18AM EST
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      Hobart It's not a false choice at all. They could they have built an episode around something you or another viewer cares more about but it would have had no significant relevance to the larger arc otherwise that's the story they would have told. I think we can all agree that this close to the end, the creators are telling only those stories they think are important. We may not like the story being told but if there was a different story to focus on they would be focusing on it.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:25AM EST
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      Chrissy You have more faith than I do, that's for sure.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:36AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington Honest to God, whatever happened to "talk about the show, not each other"? This thread is full of people attacking commenters for having issues or complaints with the show. One commenter even pretty much called everyone with questions an "a__hole".

      It's getting a little ridiculous.

      Can we not express our opinions without being attacked?

      May 12, 2010 at 3:10AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington Honest to God, whatever happened to "talk about the show, not each other"? This thread is full of people attacking commenters for having issues or complaints with the show. One commenter even pretty much called everyone with questions an "a__hole". It's getting a little ridiculous. Can we not express our opinions without being attacked?

      May 12, 2010 at 3:13AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington I don't know why my last comment appeared twice, nor why it appeared here rather than at the end of the thread. I wasn't talking about this particular comment.

      May 12, 2010 at 3:14AM EST
    • Cropped_corky_talkback_profile

      Kensington Honest to God, whatever happened to "talk about the show, not each other"? This thread is full of people attacking commenters for having issues or complaints with the episode. One commenter even pretty much called everyone with questions an "a__hole". It's getting a little ridiculous. Can we not express our opinions without being attacked?

      May 12, 2010 at 3:16AM EST
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      The Orange

      May 12, 2010 at 6:48AM EST
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      The Orange Meh I don't get it. On one hand you are complaining that you don't care about answers and on the other hand you are complaining about not getting answers to completely esoteric questions which have no imapct on the lives of the said characters.

      And no thank you. No answers through monologues, please. If you want to see the mysteries of the show explained by one guy vomiting out all the info go watch BSG's 'No Exit'. It might be quick but it's so incredibly deflating that it's not even funny.

      May 12, 2010 at 6:53AM EST
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      Bakija So sad. While watching last night, I was like "Huh. Well, at least now we know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase..." and my wife was like "Genius. How long you think till someone else posts that same gag?"

      Not that long.

      May 12, 2010 at 8:15AM EST
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      tinmanic Meh I don't get it. On one hand you are complaining that you don't care about answers and on the other hand you are complaining about not getting answers to completely esoteric questions which have no imapct on the lives of the said characters.

      That's the thing. We wasted an hour on characters I don't really care about, and on top of that they didn't really explain anything sufficiently. If you're going to spend an hour on nothing but mythology, at least have there be a payoff.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:00PM EST
  • Barackobama_high_talkback_profile

    JWIII

    After watching the episode I was pleased.

    Good & Evil has no true meaning in LOST. It is definable but only in context of situation. What we are left with is emotional perspectives on life that shape our characters actions. For example, the contrast of light & dark can translate into optimist and pessimist. It reflects the argument philosophers have over the nature of man. Are we inherently selfish or are we not?

    If I were to explain the characters, I would do it like this:

    Jacob: optimistic that people are capable of doing good but is not in denial about the wrong we choose to act out

    MIB: does not believe people are capable of doing good. We are inherently selfish and greedy.

    Yet he is only a man who has discovered a source that has been manipulated by someone who believes they are doing good but in order to do good they cause harm to others. Their mother is a backwards preacher.

    There's much interesting information in this episode. It does not say the island is spiritual nor does it tell us it is scientific. We are allowed to decide if that light is a god like entity or if it's just an unknown energy capable of easy manipulation.

    I left the show with sympathy for man-in-black because he is a product of a semi-deranged women. Yet, I dislike him because he is more like her than he wants to admit. Likewise I left with wishy washy feelings on Jacob. Here is a man who is an optimist yet still brings people to the island to prove a point. He is in denial of his role, of how his hand has lead to the deaths of many others.

    Maybe it doesn't add up nicely in what we have shown but I think they managed to capture the meaning of the show beyond mythology and character faces. It's a show about actions and the consequences they bring.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:30AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Barackobama_high_talkback_profile

      JWIII I also wanted to comment on how the man-in-black was transformed into the smoke monster.

      Desmond is the other person we know to have been blasted with the light.

      What does that mean for Desmond?

      It's interesting he wasn't transformed.

      May 12, 2010 at 12:40AM EST
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      Chrissy "Jacob: optimistic that people are capable of doing good but is not in denial about the wrong we choose to act out"

      That's an interesting point to pull from this. Why would Jacob feel this way? His mother told him the opposite. His brother told him the opposite. His brother, who used to be his best friend, went to live with people and ended up killing his mother. Why would Jacob have a good or optimistic view of people? Does he just want to prove MiB wrong (in which case he's just as petty as MiB, who wanted to prove Mother wrong).

      I did like that this episode showed Jacob as the second choice, the less special, the un-asked for candidate (although he was first born, which, thematically, is weird). Is his later confidence borne of experiences in the interim, or is it an act?

      May 12, 2010 at 1:23AM EST
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      Hobart Following Chrissy's thoughts about Jacob as the second choice there's a continued parallel between Jack and Lock and Jacob and MIB. Locke seemed to be the special one, chosen by the island and certainly believed himself to be so. Yet as Sayid said last week, it is going to be Jack in much the same way it is was going to be Jacob. And in both cases it was probably the way things were supposed to be, it just took time for Jacob and Jack to accept that.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:33AM EST
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      Scott J. Perhaps being the second choice is what made Jacob sympathetic to those people whom his mother and brother so looked down upon. He saw himself as flawed, and so he was more forgiving of the flaws in others than his "special" brother.

      May 12, 2010 at 1:42AM EST
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    Steve

    As with other Lost episodes that seem to be advertised as answering big questions, this one focused more on motivation. It gave us the why jacob/smokey are like (or were like) how they are, but did not give us the answers we were all hoping for. I feel as though this episode would have been much better if it was the season opener, or much earlier on in the season.

    May 12, 2010 at 12:31AM EST Reply to Comment
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Alan Sepinwall

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All through his childhood, Alan Sepinwall's relatives told his parents, "All that boy does is watch television! How's he going to make a living doing that?" His career as a TV critic has been 15 years and counting of his attempt to answer their concerns. "What's Alan Watching" is a blog whose title is self-explanatory: Alan watches TV shows, then writes about what he watched. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com

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