Interview: 'Mad Men' creator Matthew Weiner previews season 5
It's 'every man for himself' when Don Draper and friends return on March 25
"Mad Men" creator Matthew Weiner hugging star Elisabeth Moss at AMC's party at the Television Critics Association press tour.
Credit: AP
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PASADENA - "Mad Men" will return on Sunday, March 25 with a two-hour episode that the show's creator Matthew Weiner called a "movie." Parts of it are structured like two episodes that will air on the same night, but both hours were directed by "The Suitcase" director Jennifer Getzinger, and Weiner tried to outline it so it would work as one big piece.
That's a splashy return for a show that's been off the air since October of 2010, and to get the press ready, AMC brought Weiner and virtually the entire "Mad Men" cast (from Jon Hamm on down to Jay R. Ferguson, who plays sexist art director Stan Rizzo) to press tour Saturday night for a meet-and-greet cocktail party. As always, the actors were on lockdown about what they could say about the new season (Christina Hendricks flinched at the notion of even hinting about what Joan's maternal side is like), so I eventually went straight to the source and spent a few minutes talking with Weiner and another reporter (whose questions are mixed in with mine) about what season 5 is about in terms of theme, if not plot.
Thematically, what is season 5 about?
It's hard to boil it down, and I always preface it with that, but the things that were on my mind were a couple of things. One is one that I realized it turned out as we got through it, but it's really every man for himself. We've talked about how life isn't fair before on the show, but that realization that you really have to deal with your own problems by yourself, and other people are not interested, and that self-interest can be a surprise, especially if you're trying to be good. And then the other thing is, and it really kept coming up - the line is in the show in episode 3 - is, "When is everything going to get back to normal?"
And it's not.
Yeah. This is normal. And I feel like that's the way it is right now. That's what I feel: we are undergoing such tremendous change. Technological, social, our perception of ourselves as a country, our perception of each other. The country at one time feels like a melting pot and as culturally diverse as ever, and at the same time, I don't know what period I'm looking to, but I don't feel like my feet are on the ground. What you realize is, this is the way it is.
When you say "every person for themselves," in a broader sense, what do you mean by that?
We have a show that is about people's personal lives and about their jobs. We take that very seriously, and these are very ambitious people. But there's a certain point where you have to start thinking for yourself, and a lot of behavior you would judge as very negative for yourself, or destructive or whatever - that is the only way to achieve what you want. If you sit there and wait for someone to give you anything in life, there's a very good chance you won't get it. That can be a very earth-shattering thing about understanding the world.
You take someone like Don, who we know is trying to be a better person. With the audience, I think that's part of what they like about him. They see that there is virtue in this man. From the pilot, the fact that he's talking to the busboy, who's an African-American man in his 50s, he immediately cuts through everything to say, "Well, this is a human being's opinion." You see someone there (in Don) who has a virtue in their trust of other people, and is a bit of a chameleon, and curious and open and all these things you could talk about. Don's maneuver at the end of last season was really, really selfish. And he may have saved the business, but that's what I'm talking about. How long does it take to learn that lesson? That's a big part of the season.
He seems particularly well-versed in being able to survive that, and not everybody else in the show can do it. So who suffers the most in that change?
I can't tell you that. I can tell you one thing, which is that if you keep it on your mind, it is constantly there. And you know, I'm a composer who is writing for an incredible orchestra. It is not pre-meditated, but there are seasons where there's been a lot of Betty, seasons where there's been a lot of Peggy. There's always going to be a lot of Don. But I have gotten to really feel like, even with this huge cast of characters that I fought to keep in the world - I don't want the world to get any smaller - I think that Christina had an amazing season, Vinny (Kartheiser) had an amazing season, Lizzy (Moss). It's all over the place.
(Note: the next question/gaffe is mine. It was the end of tour and I was brain-dead.)
You set up a lot of stories in last year's finale: Don marries Megan…
Don does not marry Megan.
Yes, yes, of course. Don gets engaged to Megan.
Don proposes to Megan.
It's been a while.
(laughs) Catch up! I actually have to tell you, I more than anyone, know that a lot of the pleasure in the show is the accumulation of detail. But I do think that last season's finale was kind of the most cliffhanger-y we've done. It was such an abrupt shift. We'd just gotten to know Don, and then we were on the outside again. And some people felt betrayed in a way. They felt the story was honest, but they felt, "Oh! He almost made it!" But I think considering all the drama of not being on the air for the last year, I'm glad that it was that kind of episode and we left it there.
How are they going to catch up? I think more people have seen the show on Netflix than had ever seen the show before. At least, that's my personal experience.
I imagine you had certain ideas about where those stories were going to go. Did that change given the amount of time there was (after)?
I am going to terrify everyone here: I never have an idea when that finale is over. I really don't. I want to stay within that reality, but I think the audience deserves to not have the same thing happening for five years. I literally try and like shake it up and dump out the milkshake and rinse out the glass and start over. Whatever happens in between, and whatever happens in my life, certain success is something that everyone on the show now feels this responsibility to the audience. So you get extra pressure to please. And I am a showman and an entertainer a little bit, so I do want to please that way. But all that said, I look at it like everyone's saying, "Oh my god, now you gotta raise the bar. How are you going to top last year? People really liked it." And I love hearing that, but some of it makes me want to vomit, because I can't think that way. I'm literally like, "You like chocolate ice cream? I can't make richer chocolate ice cream. I'm going to make orange sherbet this year."
(Brief recorder malfunction here, but Weiner is asked about all the good shows that either debuted or blossomed during the long "Mad Men" hiatus.)
You think that I'm upset when there's good things on TV? I think it's good. I compete with everybody, but I think the more good stuff there is, the more TV people watch. And by the way, going back to the ice cream, there hasn't been any "Mad Men" (while we were away). What is good, what is bad? Talk about new. New has always got a little edge.
But do you feel any pressure?
Now, we are the old show. To go to an awards show and go, "We've been on the air longer than anything else being nominated." I still want my special excuses: We're new! You don't understand us! I think we're an underdog. We're always going to be an underdog. The show is very specific and it's very peculiar.
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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About This Blog
All through his childhood, Alan Sepinwall's relatives told his parents, "All that boy does is watch television! How's he going to make a living doing that?" His career as a TV critic has been 15 years and counting of his attempt to answer their concerns. "What's Alan Watching" is a blog whose title is self-explanatory: Alan watches TV shows, then writes about what he watched. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupJake
January 16, 2012 at 5:05PM EST Reply to CommentCome on March 25th!
Caren
January 16, 2012 at 5:25PM EST Reply to CommentWhy did I think Jon Hamm directed the first episode of season? Is he doing a later episode?
Guest I believe he directed the 3rd episode to air, but it was the 1st episode produced.
January 16, 2012 at 5:36PM ESTbruin I've read MANY times that he was directing the first episode, so I have the same question!
January 16, 2012 at 5:37PM ESTMike Someone mentioned this in Alan's post about the announcement that it's coming back on the 25th. Basically, Hamm directed the first produced episode of the season, but this will be the first to air.
January 16, 2012 at 5:38PM ESTcitizenmilton I doubt Alan's made the same mistake, but I do recall several entertainment sites specifically claiming it was the premiere episode, not just the first produced. That felt a bit wrong at the time, putting the season premiere pressure on a first time director, and now we know those stories were just wrong.
January 17, 2012 at 11:14AM ESTGlad to see this cleared up, and, getting a "movie" upon return almost makes the long hiatus worth the wait.
gladly
January 16, 2012 at 5:40PM EST Reply to CommentYou know, I really thought I could remember most of Mad Men, but I completely forgot that Stan Rizzo even existed. Maybe a quick rewatch is in order after all.
amg I just started watching the DVD commentaries for season 4 over winter break. I'm going to be hard-pressed to get them all in before March 25, but I did that with S3 before S4 aired and found it to be well worth it. So far for S4 Matt Weiner has done one for each ep. And each ep has two commentaries.
January 16, 2012 at 6:14PM ESTAndrea That's probably because he's forgettable / someone many of us mentally block out of the episodes in which he appears. For my part, unless the departure of Lucky Strike leads to the return of Sal (and, I hope, the consequent disappearance of Stan), I don't see myself tuning in for Season 5 ... and this from someone with the first four seasons on Blu-Ray, who has watched every single commentary and nearly every extra, plus tuning in a plethora of sites to follow the show.
January 17, 2012 at 6:05AM ESTBen Kabak You must really love Sal, andrea. Wow.
January 17, 2012 at 3:14PM ESTKaylee
January 16, 2012 at 6:02PM EST Reply to CommentI'm not sure what alternate universe Matthew Weiner is living in where Mad Men is an underdog at awards shows. The Darkest Timeline?
shma Mad Men has never won an acting award in any category.
January 16, 2012 at 6:37PM ESTshma At the emmys, I mean.
January 16, 2012 at 6:38PM ESTKaylee True, but they're undefeated in the Best Drama category and I would hardly classify them as "underdogs" in any of the acting categories.
January 16, 2012 at 11:35PM ESTJerseyRudy It is the same reason a football coach always thinks his team is the underdog, even if they are favored by 2 TDs.
January 17, 2012 at 3:12PM ESTamg
January 16, 2012 at 6:19PM EST Reply to CommentOh, it makes me so happy to think that this might suggest that Don did not marry, or is already divorced from, Megan! Either way, (or even if that's wrong) that was not going to turn out well.
I love the idea of this theme, "no way back to normal" and that we're all ultimately on our own. Can't wait to watch it all play out.
geoffrey
January 16, 2012 at 7:11PM EST Reply to Commentany hint on what year it will pick up on? 1966 do we expect?
citizenmilton
January 17, 2012 at 11:25AM EST Reply to CommentNice interview Alan! Thanks. Love how Weiner talked you down from marriage, to engagement, to proposal. That merciless control of specificity - even in an interview - seems an infinitely renewable resource at his disposal. Can't wait. This interview's whetted my appetite just enough to want to kick-start a ritual burning through the blu-rays.
Amanda But don and Meghan were engaged! That's what happens when someone says yes to a proposal and announces it to his co workers right? I know that's not the point of your comment. Just wanted to note that.
January 17, 2012 at 2:27PM ESTSuzombie He put a ring on it. Someone else's ring? Yes, but a ring all the same.
January 17, 2012 at 3:15PM ESTJerseyRudy yes, it was a clear engagement. The only distinction is that not enough time had elapsed for it to be called an "engagement," but I think Mr. Weiner is messing with us here
January 17, 2012 at 3:18PM ESTKarenX Maybe he's quibbling on the adage about a ring and a date. My grandmother said that without a date a ring was just jewelry.
January 18, 2012 at 12:30PM ESTMBG
January 19, 2012 at 1:54PM EST Reply to CommentTwo. Years. MM is the greatest show of all time but this ridic wait is the biggest slap to viewers of all time. Go Big or Go Home? Don't blame MWeiner, it's all on AMC.
A Oct 2010 to Mar 2012 is not two years.
February 1, 2012 at 7:30AM EST