Interview: 'Chuck' star Zachary Levi on Hulu, ratings and Comic-Con
Winning the Best in Show poll was nice, but renewal still shaky
"Chuck" star Zachary Levi.
"Chuck" star Zachary Levi has always had a deep and abiding love for the show's fans. During the Subway campaign to save the show at the end of season 2, Levi led a group of several hundred fans to a local Subway. When Fienberg and I somehow failed to get a single audience question in at the last San Diego Comic-Con "Chuck" panel, the only person more upset than the two of us was Levi, because he loves hearing from the fans and interacting with them.
So a few hours after it was announced that "Chuck" had won Hulu's Best in Show fan tournament, I got on the phone with Levi to get his reaction to the news, and also to gauge his feelings about where the show stands in terms of renewal. (A few months ago, when the show was consistently averaging a 2.0 rating in the 18-49 year-old demographic, I thought it was a lock to come back. These days, it's averaging about a 1.7, putting the show once again on the bubble.) During a break from filming this season's 23rd episode, Levi had mixed emotions about the result, given the show's familiar precarious position, and we talked about where things stand, what he's enjoyed about doing this latest season, and what his Comic-Con plans are, whether or not renewal comes.
This contest is far from the first time you've gotten to witness the passion of your fanbase. How did it feel this time?
I'm always a little conflicted with it. Obviously, it feels amazing to have fans as passionate and dedicated as we do. I've always tried as much as I can to show them that love back. Our fanbase is so amazing and I'm so appreciative of them. It really makes you feel good about what you do at the end of the day.
Unfortunately, none of these competitions mean anything to networks at the end of the day. I'm sure that they clock them to some degree. There's a couple of issues, one of them being. Most of these online voting battles, you can vote multiple times. It's not indicative of an overall number. It could be 10 people who are literally on their laptops all day long. If there were 5 million votes for you, it could be just a fraction of that in populace. So networks don't look at it and go, "Oh, see? There's a whole lot of people watching the show."
But even if it was, unfortunately, and I've talked to fans about this before, online viewership just doesn't hold water with networks. The money is coming from advertisers who are paying for the show to be watched on television. We make some online revenue, but it pales in comparison to what we need to make a show, especially one the size and scope "Chuck" is. I want to say to the fans that I love your fervor and your passion and your love, and it means so much to me, but don't waste your time thinking it's going to resonate with the network thinking that they'll renew the show. We've come back every year, and I know that the network and studio have taken the fans voice into account. One of the smartest things I've ever seen is the Subway campaign, because that does resonate with the advertiser. The advertiser might say, "Well, if they're willing to buy sandwiches to keep a show on the air, there may be some merit to it." While going online shows love and shows passion, our numbers continue to drop. You've got to go rustle up people to watch the show.
I kind of have mixed emotions about it, I guess. I'm very appreciative of it, but I know, being on this side of it, it doesn't mean what I think all the fans really want it to mean.
So this late into the season, with the show again not a lock to come back, how are you feeling?
I think everyone's attitude is good, and not necessarily because we're optimistic about a pickup, but we're just choosing not to be negative, and come to work and appreciate your cast and crew and try to have as much fun as possible. And we know that however many people watch these episodes, even if they are the last, they mean a lot to those people. And we're coming to the end of a really long season. It's the longest we've ever done in terms of episode count. The second season we still had 8-day (production) schedules, that got cut down for the third season, so it's maybe the same number of days, but this is more episodes. It's nine months of 14-hour days and not seeing your friends and family for extended periods of time. While we don't know what the future holds, we know that we've worked hard, and try to do the best we can by our fanbase, and the rest is in God's hands, and it always has been. every season it's always been the same situation: will they or won't they? Maybe it mirrors Chuck and Sarah's relationship.
Well, Chuck and Sarah eventually made it work long-term...
People have asked me what I think is going to happen. Every year I've always ended up in the same place: I really don't know. As fruitless as it came to be, I always tried to figure it out and apply logic, but Hollywood isn't necessarily the most logical place in the world. Or maybe it's just that logical. Especially with television, it's all about ratings, all about live viewership. Look, man, if we were on any other network, any of these seasons, we wouldn't be back. But because we've been on NBC, with all these changes they've been through over the past four seasons, and fighting to get those viewers, and knowing that "Chuck" has been kind of this staple. While we drop in viewership it's never drastic - kind of a slow decrease.
But our numbers right now are not great by any stretch of the imagination. The one thing that one can look at and go, "Well, there's this," is the fact that by the end of the season, we're at 78 episodes, which is 10 shy of syndication, and 22 of the illustrious 100-episode mark. One more would get us there, even a half season would get us into syndication, and Warner Bros. as a studio is what they're most attracted to. It's how they get from the red into the black. But I don't know. In a time like now, who's going to buy a catalog of episodes for a show that was barely hanging on with live, brand-new episodes? I understand putting reruns of the really big hit shows right now: "Glee" and "Modern Family" and the like. It's a tough thing to see, but I'm not privy to any of those conversations. I try not to look at ratings, because at the end of the day, all you can do is go to work, do your best, and be as much love and light for everyone around you, and keep a positive attitude.
Well, moving away from the show's future, how has it been working on this fourth season, in terms of the guest stars, storylines, etc?
The highlights for me of any season, one of the biggest is always the guest stars. Getting to work with people that I've idolized or respected or just had a nerd boner for? It's been really cool. Having John Larroquette come back was awesome. Dolph Lundgren, and all these people who I would never, five years ago, have thought, "Oh, I'm going to work with that guy one day." And Timothy Dalton is just ridiculously awesome. Linda Hamilton is so awesome and loving. They just kind of jump in with you and play in your sandbox. It's a really fun experience in that regard. And as far as the storyline is concerned, I was very happy when Chuck and Sarah got together. I was over the will they/won't they thing, because I like stories to move forward.
And one of the biggest perks this season has been getting to work with Josh Gomez more. When we did the pilot, he and I hit it off greatly - both gamers and both nerds - but then almost immediately, we didn't get to work together anymore, because Chuck was off in spy world. So last season, as soon as that secret was revealed, and now Morgan is getting more and more infused into the spy world, I like that. Josh is so talented, he's so funny, such a great guy, and a delight to have on set. That's one of the things that I've dug the most, is just more Josh.
Well, Zach, I hope the news you guys get is good, and that whomever you get to moderate the next Comic-Con panel actually gets some fan questions in.
(laughs) Oh, I'm gonna go to Comic-Con one way or the other. I'm in the process of putting together my own little slice of Comic-Con. I've rented my own little venue for what I hope will be the first annual Nerd Headquarters. It's going to be a place for people like myself and Nathan Fillion and Seth Green and Chris Hardwick and Felicia Day, it's going to be a giant co-op. We're going to have panels and signings and an awesome lounge. We'll have games set up. Whether Chuck comes back or not, I'm definitely going to be down there.
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Comments
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupLee Harvey
April 4, 2011 at 8:26PM EST Reply to CommentA world without "Chuck" would be just that much sadder.
John Casey It would be awful. I can't imagine life without my favorite Nerd Herder
April 19, 2011 at 8:34AM ESTRazorback
April 4, 2011 at 8:26PM EST Reply to CommentOne of the few people in the biz who won't lie to his fans just to be super positive. I love this guy.
dan Yeah, he's always seemed like a honest, good-hearted, well-grounded guy. Love him, love Chuck
April 4, 2011 at 9:21PM EST
April 4, 2011 at 8:28PM EST Reply to CommentA panel with Zachary Levi, Nathan Fillion, Seth Green and Felicia Day would just about be the greatest thing that ever existed.
I'm really pulling for Chuck. With Fringe, Community and Park & Recreation all returning next year, Chuck is the last bubble show I'm eagerly awaiting some news for.
Katsumaro
April 4, 2011 at 8:35PM EST Reply to CommentAwesome, awesome guy, and very honest. Loved it.
Diane_F
April 4, 2011 at 8:42PM EST Reply to CommentThe silver lining to all of this is that no matter what happens to "Chuck," Zachary Levi will be a much in-demand actor (and possibly a singer and director, too). While I do want a fifth season of "Chuck," I'm also looking forward to what he does next.
klg19
April 4, 2011 at 8:55PM EST Reply to CommentOh, man, I have GOT to find Nerd Headquarters! I'm going to the Con this year because I'm an Eisners judge, and I was planning on sticking to the comics side rather than the media circus, but the Nerd Headquarters beckons with a strong and steady flame!
Andrei Personally, I would prefer the "Nerd Herdquarters", but that's just me.
April 4, 2011 at 9:17PM ESTAnyway, I SO want a 5th season, if only to get a proper goodbye. I need a new car; an awesome Sienna, maybe?
echos myron
April 4, 2011 at 9:21PM EST Reply to CommentAs a series, Chuck is so cheap-looking and poorly-acted that I doubt it costs more than $50 per episode to produce.
meagan And what show, would you suggest is worth more?
April 4, 2011 at 11:01PM ESTMargaret Poorly acted? You are sooo wrong there buddy, Both Zachary and Yvonne are first class, the emotion jumps out at you in every episode. Obviously you haven't watched the show much.
April 5, 2011 at 3:59PM ESTFoundNemo OP's comment is a bit trollish since the article is more about renewal numbers and the actor Levi than it is the show itself.
April 5, 2011 at 7:03PM ESTMitch I expected a better comment from a GBV fan.
April 6, 2011 at 12:29AM ESTmj huh!!well, obviously, you haven't watch even one episode dude!
April 14, 2011 at 7:01AM ESTSander Thats the worst thing i have ever heard! It is absolutely not poor acted when you ave actors like, Baldwin, Strahovski and Levi! And with those awesome guest stars Chuck have, it can't be bad acted!! Another thing is that the show is not cheap looking. The special effects are the greatest, and everything else look almost real. Chuck is the greatest show in the history, so beat it!!
May 1, 2011 at 7:30AM EST
April 4, 2011 at 10:08PM EST Reply to CommentYeah, I would really like even a half season ordered by NBC with the expectation that it would be the last just so Fedak, Schwartz, and Co. can give the series a proper send off for the fans.
Also, did he really say "nerd boner"? If so, awesome.
Tom They do a series finale every time they think they might not get a renewal or back 9 and have been for awhile. So expect an ending on the level of last years season finale, or episode 13 of this year or last.
April 4, 2011 at 10:32PM ESTRazorback They have the opportunity to end this season as a series finale but they are going for a cliffhanger ending. So, if they get 13 more episodes next season, what is to stop them from doing the same? I don't think it matters when it ends. They will always end on some kind of cliffhanger.
April 4, 2011 at 10:39PM EST
Reply to comment...
April 5, 2011 at 9:00AM EST
The difference is that NBC can make it clear that the next season or whatever episode order they get is a "final season" for them. Show runners and networks decide on that all the time. I'd rather not see the series end on a this supposed cliffhanger so if Schwartz and Fedak could negotiate that, that would be pretty awesome.
April 5, 2011 at 9:00AM ESTBen Yes, this is what I've been saying too - it would be good if Schwartz and Fedak negotiated a final season of 22 episodes. 100 episodes, and an ending which is not a cliffhanger, for me that would give me everything I want out of Chuck.
April 5, 2011 at 6:23PM ESTFrom the day the Pilot aired, I thought 'It would be a miracle if Chuck lasted that long, but about 4 or 5 seasons would be perfect' and now here we are. Honestly, the only thing that would sadden me now is if Chuck didn't get a proper definitive ending.
verkisto
April 4, 2011 at 11:06PM EST Reply to CommentIt seems to be difficult to get the "watch live" thing across, but don't overlook the power of polls to bring a show to the notice of potential viewers. Also, it's one of the few initiatives that international fans can participate in. "Chuck" season 5, please!
Katie Agreed. Hulu was a big fish. No one cares that Chuck won an online poll. But what does matter is that because of the fans, Hulu is now running an ad on its main page for Chuck with a direct link to online episodes. That's free advertisement won by the fans, NBC.
April 4, 2011 at 11:24PM ESTRazorback No one will care. Don't be delusional.
April 5, 2011 at 12:34AM ESTBlue Moon It is one of the frustrating things about being a viewer and a fan of certain shows:
April 5, 2011 at 12:59AM ESTUnless there is a Nielsen box attached to my set, it feels like there is no way to support my favorite shows (spreading the word to friends doesn't work, as none of them are Nielsen families either)
Online polls are not counted, DVD sales are not counted, DVR or On-Demand or On-line viewing is said not to count. The fact that the reported ratings don't seem to track the viewing habits in my household, or of people I know, just makes it more frustrating.
klg19 @Razorback, isn't @Katie's point that the Hulu win got Chuck free advertising, which may get new live viewers? I mean, when does NBC ever advertise Chuck? I'm not sure I've ever even seen a commercial for it, and I watch a fair amount of NBC (well, at least, on Thursdays).
April 5, 2011 at 10:05AM ESTOPD @Razorback has a point though. Perhaps instead he should have said, "NBC will not care". Unless the free advertising courtesy of Hulu translates to more live viewers it won't matter. Live viewers= more people to watch commercials/ads during the program, which is how NBC makes its money from the show. If the spot on Hulu means a few extra Nielsen viewers tune in next Monday then yes that matters, otherwise it's just something that makes the fans feel better. I'm not saying that's wrong and it makes it a little better to go out as a show knowing your fanbase still cared, but Zac is right in pointing out how it fits into the grand scheme of things from a renewal/business perspective.
April 5, 2011 at 12:55PM EST-OPD
mikerwilson
April 4, 2011 at 11:39PM EST Reply to CommentThat was a little sad actually...that's the most pessimistic I've ever seen Levi in an interview. In reality, pessimistic simply equals honesty, and it makes me sad to hear someone else say what I've been trying to mentally prepare myself for - this could very well be the last season of Chuck. The ratings have gone from middling to dismal. I want it back more than any show other than Community and Parks and Rec, and NBC delivered on those, so hopefully it'll deliver on Chuck as well. If not, at least we had four spectacular seasons.
SpyTV
April 4, 2011 at 11:59PM EST Reply to CommentHe has a rational hope for the best, prepare for the worst attitude. Of the 5 network shows we don't miss, Parks, Community and Fringe (all pretty low rated)have been renewed. No matter what, I'll be watching Chuck through the last episode, and I am hoping it will be at least in season 5. Thanks for the interview Alan.
Tracy
April 5, 2011 at 12:20AM EST Reply to CommentI don't know what I'd do without Chuck next season, it is my favorite show in the universe. I'd probably have a downfall of being sad, but I still like remaining positive. Zac inspires me, the way he thinks and the way he is just so positive about everything. He is a genuine human being. If Chuck is not renewed, even bigger things will happen for him - he is a talented and down to earth guy (and I don't even know him or met him to know this).
Tracy
April 5, 2011 at 12:23AM EST Reply to CommentAlso if it does end, Chuck movie please.
April 5, 2011 at 4:10AM EST Reply to Commentis it strange that reading him saying "nerd boner" gave me by itself a nerd boner?
April 5, 2011 at 5:27AM EST Reply to CommentZac is a straight shooter. Love that.
Joseph
April 5, 2011 at 12:02PM EST Reply to CommentNever watched Chuck, and although I like Mr. Levi, it's very hard to feel bad for him or the show's fans. I doubt there has ever been a network show with Chuck's historically low ratings that has gotten anything close to 78 episodes.
Justice I'm sorry... But was that a really necessary comment? I love levi too, and the show... ALOT so im just curious why you even commented...
April 5, 2011 at 1:27PM ESTJoseph There have been so many excellent shows that don't even get a complete first season, I would think the show's cast/fans would be thrilled they have had four complete seasons especially given the low ratings. The comment wasn't a slam at the fans or show.
April 5, 2011 at 3:29PM ESTJoseph I mean, rather than constantly acting like nobody appreciates them or the show which seems to be a constant theme in any interview/discussion. 78 episodes! That's amazing in this day and age, especially on one of the "big three" networks.
April 5, 2011 at 3:30PM ESTMargaret If you have never watched Chuck, how can you comment on it? I've watched it from the start and it has just got better and better. It annoys me when people make negative comments on something they know nothing about.
April 5, 2011 at 4:11PM ESTJoseph It annoys me when people react in a knee jerk fashion without bothering to try and understand the point. I have nothing bad to say about Chuck or its fans and wish them another ten seasons. I was not commenting on the show itself, just the fact that a) it has already had a generous run, and b) given that, it is tiresome to me that every mention/interview with the show always seems to lean towards the negative (low ratings, not guaranteed renewal) instead of the positive (again, 78 episodes!)
April 5, 2011 at 4:42PM EST
Huge Chuck fan, but I get what Joseph is trying to say. Levi and the rest have embraced the positive, and many of it's fans have long been, if not embracing, focused on the negative. Love Zach and hope he has a long and happy career in Hollywood.
April 5, 2011 at 6:35PM ESTSusie
April 5, 2011 at 12:16PM EST Reply to CommentThink positive, Chuck fans! Let the sponsors and NBC know that you love the show. We have had 3 "miracle" renewals and we could have another.
NJMark
April 5, 2011 at 1:24PM EST Reply to CommentWhen I miss enough episodes of a continuing drama, I give up on it.
Online and on-demand viewing allows viewers to remain engaged with the show during the weeks they can't watch the regular broadcast.
True, they don’t make money off those platforms specifically, but they keep them from losing viewers by allowing them to remain engaged with the show when they can’t watch the regular broadcast. The availability of programs outside of the broadcast is important.
(“Just DVR it,†you say? Sure, but haven’t we all had a DVR malfunction with a program not recording properly now and again?)
April 5, 2011 at 1:28PM EST Reply to CommentI'm ready for the show to end but not on a cliffhanger (if the cliffhanger coming means the wedding won't happen). Let Chuck get the 10 remaining episodes it needs to go into syndication, for a final/fifth season, with an end date and no chance of early cancellation. Let it end "right" even if just with a 2-hour TV movie in the summer or fall (and promote the heck out of it).
Anonymous
April 5, 2011 at 1:43PM EST Reply to CommentGrowing up I knew Zach and he was always such a good hearted person. It is nice to see someone speak so openly about a topic that others would gloss over. Glad to see he hasn't changed.
VentusAstrum
April 5, 2011 at 4:07PM EST Reply to CommentThe TV ratings system is a joke. I don't understand, with all the fancy technology today, why EVERY SINGLE tv that is manufactured can't have a signal built into it that goes back to the Nielsen people for counting. How many beloved tv shows have been canceled prematurely because of this? How many more have to fall before the general tv viewing audience gets thoroughly sick of it and begins to demand an overhaul of the ratings system. Chuck is a wonderful, full-of-heart show that has owned Monday nights for four years now. It could go on to own another three or four if only the number of Chuck fans were *truly* reflected in the ratings.
Margaret
April 5, 2011 at 4:17PM EST Reply to CommentEven if we don't get a season 5, Chuck, or rather Zachary will leave a brilliant legacy. Thanks to him fans from around the world have become involved with Operation Smile, a charity which does amazing work to change childrens lives for the better. We are all committed to keep fund raising for this charity and that alone has made Chuck a show none of us will forget.
April 5, 2011 at 6:40PM EST Reply to CommentI would like to blame NBC for part of the problem. Chuck has been inconsistent the last two years because of how NBC has been renewing it. 13 episodes, wait, no a full season... This makes writing a long term story arc very difficult, and ends up with the Dalton storyline being absurdly rushed when you see it ended about halfway through the season.
All I want right now is for NBC to tell them "Next year, final season, 15 episodes, make them rock" and see what they come up with.
NJMark But to NBC's credit, they kept the show in the same time slot the whole time. "WKRP in Cincinnati" should have been so lucky during THEIR four years on the air.
April 6, 2011 at 11:07AM EST
April 7, 2011 at 10:26AM EST Reply to CommentWOW! Deep....
Krystine
April 7, 2011 at 8:09PM EST Reply to CommentPersonally I LLOOOVVEEEEEE Chuck, I've been watching since episode 1. Zachary Levi is ammaazzinngg (HECK I even watched Tangled 3x when it was in theaters because he was so good) as well as the other cast. To be honest though, I haven't been watching religiously like I used to... This past season has lacked something for me... Maybe the writing? I'm not really sure... But anyways I REALLY hope CHUCK gets another season, because I really think the show deserves it and they can really do great things with the story.
armando
April 13, 2011 at 12:55PM EST Reply to CommentI think Chuck would do very well on syndication, Season 1 and 2 had a lot of standalone episodes, so that would be "atractive" for people who doesn't watch every episode of a TV show.
malu
April 14, 2011 at 6:57AM EST Reply to Commentwow...Zach/Chuck....this guy is awesome..such an honest, good-hearted, simple and down-to-earth guy. TV without Chuck is nothing. Listen...we want Chuck Season 5 to happen.