Review: 'Homeland' - 'Crossfire': Take me out to the ballgame
Carrie hunts for Walker, while Brody flashes back to his time in captivity
Carrie (Claire Danes) investigates a shooting at a mosque on "Homeland."
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A review of tonight's "Homeland" coming up just as soon as I find out what vitamin water is...
"Are we enemies now?" -Nazir
When last we left Nicholas Brody, we learned that what he had told Carrie about his time in captivity wasn't entirely the truth. Some people were excited by this revelation, some were angry that the show had done such a quick reversal from the conversation in "The Weekend," and some (like me) were concerned but willing to wait and see where the story went from here.
While Carrie spends her end of "Crossfire" trying to track down Tom Walker - and trying various methods to work the imam who might know how to find him - we spend the Brody half of things filling in many of the blanks that were left by last week's revelation.
Now we know that he is acting of his own free will (more or less), rather than being turned into a modern-day Manchurian Candidate, and we've seen the circumstances under which he came around to Nazir's way of thinking.
But is it believable?
I think it is, if you factor in the following: before Nazir took Brody into his home and made him into his son's English tutor, Brody spent five years in horrible, inhumane captivity. He was tortured, and deprived, and had nothing to do but think, over and over and over, about the moment of weakness where he believed he beat his partner and friend Tom Walker to death. I can't imagine what those five years must have been like. Almost no one can. But the psychological toll those years would have taken gives us a lot of leeway in terms of what his mindset must have been when he woke up in Nazir's home, took a bath, got a shave and a haircut and a chance to live like a person again, and then was introduced to a young boy not unlike the son Brody believed he would never see again.
Just look at the expression on Brody's face (so perfectly conveyed by Damian Lewis) in the moment where Nazir's son, so proud at having read an entire book in English, wraps him in a big, affectionate hug. This is the kind of human contact I imagine Brody never expected to have again during his long time in the darkness. And for the boy who gave him that feeling again to be killed in a drone attack on Nazir? I'm sure the Brody who came to Iraq five years earlier would understand the idea of collateral damage, even as he'd feel bad that local kids got killed. But for this Brody, after this experience, that kid was everything, and I think "Crossfire" sold that he was, and that his death might send Brody down this path.
We still don't know, however, how Tom Walker was turned - or, for that matter, whether Nazir took Brody into his home to try to turn him through less personally-devastating means. But we know now why Brody wants to kill the vice-president, and we also know that he has his own free will and can perhaps change his mind at some point.
I still worry that we may have another five or six "shocking" reveals and loyalty switcheroos before the season is out (Elizabeth Gaines seems an obvious candidate to be stealthily working for Nazir), but my overall concern level is much lower. Last week raised a bunch of questions, and this week gave what I found to be a satisfying, dramatically compelling answer.
What did everybody else think? Did you buy Brody's conversion?
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Next 106 Commentsgregel
November 28, 2011 at 12:12AM EST Reply to CommentI thought the Nazir son storyline was a bit disappointing and melodramatic. It's the only real time I thought the show was straining credibility. However, I love that it appears Tom Walker has taken it upon himself to stop them (probably thinking the authorities would never believe him). But that's just my theory...
K42 Tom Walker? Did yo mean Brody? Tom Walker is just executing his mission, not trying to stop anything at all. And it doesn't seem that Brody is trying to do that as well: last week just wanted not having nothing to do with Nazir anymore. Now it looked like Nazir won him back at least a little, gave him instructions to accept to run for office, and so on, and Brody didn't say anything on the lines of "I'm done, I will not do it". But who knows.
November 29, 2011 at 7:59PM ESTJanieJones
November 28, 2011 at 12:25AM EST Reply to CommentI found it believable especially with the psychological component factored in; however as to whether Nazir took Brody in for his own nefarious reasons? It seems fairly clear to me. Nazir also wanted his son assimilated into American culture and who better to learn from-Nazir was breeding his heir.
Brody was ripe to be picked and Nazir assessed the situation and took advantage.
As for Tom Walker, I'm very curious as to how he was turned, beaten within an inch of his life and given a new lease?
Was Saul on the floor trying to relax because of a panic attack? I was curious as to what that scene was telling me. Saul is upset that his wife has left him. The job consumes him or so we
are to think.
My plausibility was strained when Carrie was in his office by herself. I would think someone in the CIA with such clearance as Saul would lock it up every time he walked out, period.
Terry
November 28, 2011 at 12:52AM EST Reply to CommentDoes no one think that maybe, just maybe Nazir killed his Issa by bombing the school himself. (Yes, there was drone attack but who know's if it was where Brody was. And did Issa ever confirm that Nazir was really his father?) I hope not but 24 sure would go there.
Elijah Yes that was my first thought as well when the bomb hit. Seemed a bit convenient.
November 28, 2011 at 2:22AM ESTJonathan Exactly ! One cant discount anything from the show runners of 24!
November 28, 2011 at 3:26AM ESTgeektron That was my first thought as well.
November 28, 2011 at 5:51PM ESTDave I I thought that too. It's like Saul's mysterious behavior where you could take that either way. I could see Nazir doing that for a "greater good." Yet, I could also see him being the target and a missile taking out the wrong target. That stuff happened when they went after Saddam and missed or hit the target after he'd left.
November 28, 2011 at 10:58PM ESTBut yes, the thought did cross my mind.
-Cheers
KansasDan I found the fact that Isa learned English so fast troubling. Maybe Nazir did plant this boy (most likely not his son) with Brody to help turn him.
November 29, 2011 at 6:39AM ESTAnd while we are comparing this show to 24, did anyone else envision the way the talk with the Iman would have gone if it had been Jack Bauer instead of Carrie Matheson? Could anyone else see Jack shooting the wife in the leg to get the information he needed? I sure don't feel the sense of urgency with this terror plot the way we did on 24. Jack didn't have time to run around begging FBI agents to change their stories.. he shot someone, or threatened to pop out an eyeball. Sure do miss that guy! :)
Trilby Me too as well.
November 29, 2011 at 10:29AM ESTBut here's my dilemma with the show-- when Brody was rescued he was in a deplorable condition in a dark hole. Anybody?
Dave I @Trilby, I thought of that, but sort of guessed after Issa's death they planned this scenario and then planted him back in the hole. He had three years to regrow his hair & beard and plan what would happen once he was inevitably discovered.
November 29, 2011 at 3:06PM EST-Cheers
cgeye Should have read this first -- as Chuckie commented below, it's entirely possible that Issa isn't Nazir's child at all -- just a foundling, starved and grateful as Brody was, told that he had a part to play that would put him in paradise. Children serve as soldiers when war is at its most desperate....
January 9, 2012 at 1:02AM ESTchuckie
November 28, 2011 at 1:09AM EST Reply to CommentI may be falling too deeply into the show's paranoia, but I can't shake the feeling that there is something fake about Issa. They already had Brody fooled into thinking that he'd killed his friend. We already know that Abu Nazir's claim that he "never wanted or planned any of this" is false.
Jimbo
November 28, 2011 at 1:14AM EST Reply to CommentDo we know that Nazir wants Brody to kill the VP? We know he's supposed to get close to him, play along, run for office, etc., but this seems like much more of a long con than a simple assassination. Remember, Brody already met the VP at the Welcome Home ceremony at the beginning of the season. If killing him was the only goal, he could have done it then (who knows if/when he'd ever see the VP again). I think it's going to be much more about building up this idealized hero in the minds of the American people, and trying to break their will when he 'turns.'
Maggie Q Yes, I was also surprised by Alan's assumption that Brody "wants to kill the vice president." That didn't come across to me at all - more that he is disillusioned and angry about what he percieves as the government's and military's lies about what is going on in the middle east, and is willing to work with Nazir et al to expose the hypocrisy.
November 29, 2011 at 8:08AM ESTj.gordon We don't know for certain that Brody wants to kill the VP, however the episode was written in a way so that we would infer it. Perhaps instead they intend to turn Brody into a mole or actually get into a position of political power to make decisions beneficial to Nasir.
November 29, 2011 at 4:44PM ESTcgeye It it's really the long con, why not assume a Manchurian outcome? Take the hints that the VP set up Dick Johnson (oy.) with hacked accounts and Photoshop, courtesy of his CIA frenz, and how convenient that Johnson's seat is in Brody's teensy congressional district? That the plot might be a pincers action, where conspirators are surrounding him to get him onto the committee controlling defense spending -- a position that would normally require seniority to snag.
January 9, 2012 at 1:09AM ESTAw, well, that's for Season Two...
maryploppins
November 28, 2011 at 3:51AM EST Reply to CommentYeah ... I guess I can't really say what I would do in Brody's situation because I've never been held captive and tortured for 5 years, and a child close to me has never been blown up, thank god!! :-P But when I TRY to put myself into Brody's position ... defecting to the "other side" still doesn't add up for me when I try to apply logic to it. He knows full well that these guys use terrorism as their main tactic, which is not only just as bad but even worse than what the Americans have done, because they are killing innocent people (including children just like Issa) as their actual TARGETS ... vs. killing them due to known "collateral damage." Why would he decide that the best next move for him at that point would be to help these people kill MORE innocents? Unless he is so angry that all he wants is some sort of revenge on the U.S., and he can’t see past that. I would hope that 3 years later maybe he would have come to his senses though.
In any event, I still thought this was a really good episode. Even if I don’t buy the Brody storyline 100%, at least it has me really thinking, and pondering these very interesting situations. Unlike stupid Dexter, which I always watch right before Homeland, and which has just continued to become more and more bone-headed this season. It just makes me appreciate Homeland a hundred times more each time I watch it, LOL.
maryploppins Oh wait a sec, I just realized that I somehow didn't catch this statement in Alan's review: "But we know now why Brody wants to kill the vice-president, and we also know that he has his own free will and can perhaps change his mind at some point."
November 28, 2011 at 3:55AM ESTDoes he want to KILL the VP?? I mean ... if THAT's all the guy wants to do then this all would make a hell of a lot more sense. Is that it though?? If that was it, couldn't he just kill him on his own rather than having to be part of a big Saudi terrorist organization for that?? He already has direct access to the guy ... he doesn't need the Saudis for that.
BlackStar Sorry about getting political here, but I just would like to say that the US military does target civilians fairly often. Foreign terrorists often target US military and diplomatic corps.
November 28, 2011 at 10:54AM ESTJoe Thanks Blackstar. Agreed. Maryploppins, who's to say who are innocent civilians and who is just acceptable 'collateral damage?'
November 29, 2011 at 2:28AM ESTRelating this back to the show, I find him turning very plausible. Anyway, he's not planning a mass terrorist attack on hundreds of innocent Americans, only the one he feels played a vital role in the 'terror' he witnessed - the VP.
BlackStar Yes, getting back to the show, so far it hasn't really addressed the humanity of the "other" side. Maybe this is a deliberate choice in storytelling but in a series of this quality one almost expects it.
November 29, 2011 at 4:01PM ESTmaryploppins Heh I had a feeling I would get responses like this, but look, here's the deal. I didn’t mean to come off like I was claiming to be even CLOSE to an expert or even knowledgeable at ALL on ANY of this stuff - who kills who in what types of situations and yadda yadda. I have no clue. But the bottom line is that I feel like my reaction in Brody’s position would be to conclude that BOTH sides are terrible a$$holes. They BOTH use violence as a means to an end and I would probably just decide to become a hippie and start participating in drum circles and playing hacky sack, and telling everyone else to f*ck off.
December 1, 2011 at 1:58AM ESTBUT, when I typed all of that in my original comment, I was NOT looking at this as a situation where Brody ONLY wanted to kill the VP. I kept thinking that he was going to be part of some sort of plan to kill a larger group of people or something.
So then if he ONLY wants to kill the VP, then I just go back to the following question from my earlier comment above: couldn't he just kill the VP on his own rather than having to be part of a big Saudi terrorist organization for that?? He already has direct access to the guy ... he doesn't need the Saudis for that. It just seems like a LOT of hoops to jump through that he could possibly avoid by doing this on his own. BUT I guess it would make sense if he wants to get revenge on a relatively small GROUP of people who were involved in the attack that killed Issa, and the subsequent cover-up. Then he wouldn't be able to handle that all on his own. Obviously there would be several other people involved in a situation like the bombing that killed Issa, besides just the VP himself.
Anyway bottom line is that I'm still enjoying this show immensely, despite all my questions. It's a complicated situation and it makes you have to exercise your brain a bit, so that is fine with me.
Jorge
November 28, 2011 at 4:13AM EST Reply to CommentAny thoughts as to who the friend in Washington is that Nazir mentions to Brody? I don't really like the idea of a mole agent in the CIA. Just realized as I was typing he was likely referring to the Saudi ambassador.
Jorge Also, has it been explained just how exactly Walker got back into America? Nobody in the CIA or FBI mentioned it from what I remember.
November 28, 2011 at 4:16AM ESTI found the conversion of Brody through Nazir's son convincing enough. Probably would have been more convincing with more than just a single episode with sporadic flashbacks to explain it, but that's a difficult thing to thread throughout a season before it becomes insufferable.
joelwhyrock
November 28, 2011 at 4:22AM EST Reply to CommentI am definitely more at ease this week than last week, and Homeland remains my favorite drama that is currently airing new episodes.
That being said, I wish the story of Brody's captivity (or at least the last three years of it) had been continuously told across multiple episodes so that the emotional trauma could have been better realized for the audience. I have no gripe that the situation was unrealistic nor that his motivations are unbelievable, I just thought the story itself was not told in the best manner it could have been.
I have to say that in previous weeks I have found Saul's personal story a little less compelling than everything else in the show, though by no fault of the amazing Patinkin. This week, however, without a major Saul component I found myself missing his minutes. I was very intrigued by his call with Carrie was lying down and panting. Was he having a panic attack now that his wife is in India?
Strong episode overall, but more a table setter than the last couple have been.
Trilby Again, sorry, I am wondering why, after Brody was shaved and housed and comforted by Nazir he was found all bearded and dirty in a dark hole when he was resued. That didn't happen to him overnight! The timeline of his years as a captive is a little confused or confusing. Can anyone shed light on something I missed, or speculate?
November 29, 2011 at 12:23PM ESTj.gordon Trilby,
November 29, 2011 at 4:57PM ESTMy guess is the writers are going to hold off on showing that scene in a flashback until it becomes relevant to Brody's actions in this timeline.
major privacy
November 28, 2011 at 4:24AM EST Reply to CommentThere is a big political plot line that I'm not quite getting. The congressman whose seat Brody will presumably run for was a proponent of more drone attacks and a member of a high Congressional commitee. This was said at the lobbyist's house with the TV coverage of the outgoing Congressma, and the pretend news report specifically went on longer than necessry for the scene to deliver that commentary. It's related in some way I can't figure out. I think Brody wants to take down the VP, 'm not sure whether politically or physically, and expose/stop attacks like the drone ones.
Eric Actually, he was opposed to drone attacks. Installing Brody either would help to sell more war (which could mean ties between the lobbyist and defense contractors, etc.) or have him end war since he would be believed to have enough hawkish bona fides. The latter scenario is similar to a famous anticommunist like Nixon visiting China.
November 28, 2011 at 3:42PM ESTErika Herzog
November 28, 2011 at 5:26AM EST Reply to Commentpoor Jamey Sheridan. this new character they are introducing (from the clunkily handled flashback) is pure soap.
after the brilliant "The Weekend" everything about HOMELAND these last two weeks -- but very specifically this week -- seems to be off its game tonally. i'm not caring about or buying Brody's flashbacks and neither Brody's motivations nor the motivations of the "bad guys" is making any sense.
maybe it's because i've been surprisingly wowed by BORGEN -- especially this week such a great episode -- but we all know TV has the potential to show characters full of rich veins of difficult decisionmaking and complicated lives. i am approaching maxed out worry and despair that HOMELAND is going to really fail us in illustrating all of this.
sure hope it gets better. the cast and audience deserves better.
longshot7
November 28, 2011 at 5:27AM EST Reply to CommentWho's Elizabeth Gaines?
berkowit28 I have no idea whom Alan is talking about either.
November 28, 2011 at 6:13AM ESTTrinitygirl She's the VP's political advisor - the blond bossy woman who hosted the party in Archilles Herl. She's been doing the background research into Brody since the Pilot, because the VP has plans to cash in on Brody's popularity. She has been hinting since the pilot that they're going to offer him a seat somewhere and it obviously is the seat to be vacated (suspiciously conveniently by the Dick Weiner guy). Now i am wondering if in fact they are eying him up for VP when the current VP runs for president. And the question is, is she a sympathiser too, or is it hpall just a big coicidence.
November 28, 2011 at 6:26AM ESTanon.z.moose I vote Saul's wife as the high probability mole since her sudden need to depart struck me as suspicious - in the realm of TVland suspiciousness, that is. Maybe over-influenced by '24' but my ears perked up for a possible other reason for her to get out of the country. I don't buy Gaines - too Manchurian Candidate. So why is a '24' style revelation more probable than an M.C. variation? Maybe it's mere 'Spidey sense' or a suspicion that they're not going to go there since all the other setup was too close to M.C.
November 28, 2011 at 3:40PM ESTTrilby I felt like this character was really shoe-horned in in a rather forced way. Brody's kids, particularly his difficult teenager was like, "Oh, Elizabeth Gaines! I would go to her party! Dad, you've got to go!" How many disgruntled teenagers know the names of local society folk?
November 29, 2011 at 12:27PM ESTlongshot7
November 28, 2011 at 5:27AM EST Reply to CommentWho's Elizabeth Gaines???
berkowit28 But I'm not sure that adding another couple of question marks is going to get an answer any quicker.
November 28, 2011 at 6:14AM ESTTrilby See above.
November 29, 2011 at 12:27PM ESTvirginia
November 28, 2011 at 7:23AM EST Reply to CommentFor me the reason to watch this show is the amazing Damian Lewis. The story seems to be spinning out of control in ways I don't much care for but he's terrific so I continue. The machinery of the plot feels really heavy-handed so kudos to the actors who are keeping the ship afloat.
Among other things, I find I'm thrown out of the story everytime Brody comes home 12 hours late from his errands and the wife acts so relaxed about it all. The business with the poor little boy was unconvincing as was the guy stopping to pick up his USA Today to make certain Walker was the bad guy. Suspicions along those lines should have had him hightailing it out of there stat. These are tv moments that belong to not so great shows.
Did Saul hurt his back? I also don't fully buy Carrie's new assumption that Brody is clean. She seems too smart, or so we've been led to believe up until now, for this sort of either/or thinking.
Bradley Valentine I don’t believe the hunter waited to check the paper before running along. I think the paper was just a way of confirming to the viewer what was on his mind. He was already pretty scarred and on the move.
November 28, 2011 at 9:15AM ESTI also disagree that it’s “spinning out of control.” I don’t assume we have all the details of why Brody has turned yet, I think everybody needs to give an excellent show some credit here.
virginia I'm watching it and enjoying it. Watching each episode a few times over. I agree it's an excellent show which is why I get bummed when I'm thrown out of it. So I'm devoted to it which is why I pick on it, I suppose. I'd like it to work some stuff out and be even better. And, you're right, spinning out of control was a bit much on my part ... What I should have said is I dunno what. You make a good point about all the details not being known. I've been rewatching the old Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy series with Alec Guiness. That may have influenced my comment. This seems like a show that might benefit from more episodes per season and not fewer. Thanks for keeping me on track.
November 28, 2011 at 10:28AM ESTNat King Kong I think you were right the first time, Virginia. I'm having a very hard time justifying Brody's "turning" -- if all he wants is to change U.S. policy re. drone attacks and raise awareness about civilian casualties, he obviously would have a much better chance at being successful if he just did that openly. He doesn't have to join a terrorist organization bent on killing Americans (potentially his own wife and kids) to do that. In fact, if he does commit a terrorist act, nothing he has to say would be given any credence by Americans. He has to know that.
November 28, 2011 at 4:12PM ESTI worry that this show is going to really veer off into crazyland (making Elizabeth Gaines or others also secret terrorist agents -- yeah, that's believable). I was not a fan of "24" at all for political reasons (torture is good and it works, and other right-wing canards).
Still, I'm willing to give this show the benefit of the doubt a while longer, because so much of it has been very good up to now, and, as you say, for the performances of Damian Lewis and others (including Claire Danes -- although I have trouble buying a lot that swirls around her character too).
James LeBlanc
November 28, 2011 at 8:14AM EST Reply to CommentThis episode made Brody look like a person wtihout the ability to use logic. I understand his connection with Nazir's child, but Brody's willing ignorance to Nazir's evil makes him seem as bad or worse than any American he wants dead. Revenge, without any thought of broader consequences does nothing for me. However, now I can't wait for Carrie to puit it all together.
Terry No offence meant, but what one man calls evil another man calls good. Is Nazir any less evil than the Vice President?? Not in my book.
November 28, 2011 at 7:58PM ESTIt's a great show. It's all about the grays in politics and war. I also think we need to Lighten up on the constant 'these guys ran 24' so lets expect to shafted dramatically with cheap plot twists. 24 was Much more simplistic than Homeland (I speak as a huge 24 fan) The show runners have proved on both occasions they came close to crossing the cheap and great plot twist only to pull it back and up the emotional stakes. Kudos to the writers and a great analysis Alan
Bradley Valentine
November 28, 2011 at 9:10AM EST Reply to CommentI’m just rolling with it and enjoying it for now. Wait to the end before I really know if I buy it. Still, killing vice president is sacrificing his own family. He has to know that. Hard to think he could remain that passionate over that amount of time. Especially considering he know his buttons are being pushed.
Detie BV - Have enjoyed all you comments. I am jumping in with more ideas.
December 13, 2011 at 12:54PM EST1. Brody has to know if he doesn't go along with Nazir, he is never going home! How do we know he has really turned? NOte what he said to the Saudi Amb - He was anger because they had made him believe he had killed his best friend! He did make a reckless statement - "Tell Nazir,etc" But that could have been anger and frustration also.
3. The beard - not a problem. Once he convinced Nazir he had turned, he could have grown his beard anywhere. BTW he could have been placed in an area Nazir felt the Americans would find him.
4. My favorite. He spent 10 days debriefing in Germany before returning him to the US. What if he was told there was a mole in the US intelligence world and they wanted him to assist them. They would ensure he would have contact with all levels of US intelligence. Now we have a 'turned agent' and a 'US mole.'
Needless to say - I love this show. It fires my imagination every week!!
Melissa
November 28, 2011 at 9:27AM EST Reply to CommentThe one thought that kept running through my head was this: Is that really Nazir's son, or could he have taken a, perhaps orphaned, boy and used him as a means of gaining Brody's trust and loyalty? And, of course, this leads to a much darker question: As the final tactic to earn Brody's loyalty and turn him against his government (or at least the VP), might Nazir have known about the impending attack? Perhaps a bit far fetched regarding the attack, but I still question whether or not he was truly Nazir's son.
HP I hope it was not a trick. This show is SO much better when it does not simply rely on simplistic 'white Americans are good and muslims are bad.' The fact is that US drone atttacks DO kill hundreds of innocent people. It is a sad fact that for every 1 person who lost their life on 9/11 probably 10 innocents have died as a result of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
November 28, 2011 at 1:41PM ESTNat King Kong It's a lot more than 10, HP. Closer to 100.
November 28, 2011 at 3:46PM ESTDozer The majority are not from U.S. attacks. Estimated that U.S. may be responsible for 37% of "civilian" deaths in Iraq. 38K in Afghan war since 2001. It become uniquely difficult when an enemy uses the civilian population as a shield/camouflage. Pakistan Taliban released a statement today saying they will continue Jihad against Pakistan until they no longer consort with the U.S.
November 28, 2011 at 5:38PM ESTAnon.Z.Moose Let's not worry about the numbers since it's outside the scope of this blog but suffice it to say that there are many figures out there and it's common practice to cite the source so someone curious can look up the counting methodology. I think the plot point being made is that from the perspective of the people following Nazir it is not a justification for any civilian deaths to mention that you were using weapons specifically designed for warfare as opposed to unconventional means carried out by irregulars. (Not agreeing just pointing out their opinion which I have heard often.) Their perception is that irrespective of the numbers the drone and other strikes are immoral and in the minds of the extremists among them serve to justify involvement in or at least looking the other way (some in the mosque may follow this) when a terrorist plot is in the works. So this provides motivation for the show's terrorists and knowing this provides for difficult negotiations with the local Imaam (imaam means literally someone who 'stands in front' of the group, leading them through the prayer) on the part of the FBI and CIA in the show.
November 28, 2011 at 6:30PM ESTDozer Agreed. The plot point is made I was just saying but I agree this forum shouldn't be used to debate any political or moral inclinations.
November 28, 2011 at 7:40PM ESTNat King Kong Dozer, if a country starts a war by invading another sovereign nation with no truthful provocation, all deaths that result from that war can be laid at that country's doorstep. That's why war should be a last resort only. Once you unleash hell, hell ensues for all those innocents who will be caught in the crossfire.
November 28, 2011 at 8:28PM ESTfran the thought that Nazir would be revealed to be involved in the attack, using the boy that way, is distressing to me, cause I love this show, but that would be a dealbreaker for me.
November 28, 2011 at 10:07PM ESTi had to stop watching 24 after season 1 because it really became almost a propaganda tool for the use of torture, the villifying of Muslims. And it was during the run-up to the Iraq war, and I think it might have had an inflammatory effect on the zeitgeist of the American public (to the extent that a tv show can)
If Homeland goes the way of 24 I'll be really disappointed.
madaboutmen
November 28, 2011 at 10:54AM EST Reply to CommentAlan, I was thinking about the Manchurain Candidate more in this episode. In the movie they created the memories of the captured soldiers; could this whole memory with the child have been created? How did they get Brody back in a whole with all that growth of hair before he was captured? It was not Nazir's son and it may never have even happened with Brodie there. I'm still watching because Lewis and Danes are so great.
homelandfan It sure seems odd that he only had these 'memories' after he is injected with something more than once. Didn't Carrie or his wife ask him in an earlier episode why called out to 'Issa' in a dream and he said he was a guard?
November 28, 2011 at 11:22AM ESTTrilby THANK YOU! That is my question too.
November 29, 2011 at 12:33PM ESTanon.Z.moose I thought he called out his guard's name and this set up the whole drama with the guard in question - who was his tormentor - being captured, interrogated and then suiciding. But I'm not sure about it now several weeks later. It could be he called out Issa and I thought it was the guard's name as the episode progressed just because that's the way the mind plays tricks on memory.
November 29, 2011 at 10:38PM ESTEllen M.
November 28, 2011 at 10:58AM EST Reply to CommentI did enjoy the episode but was torn a bit by the revelations about Brody in this episode. It is believable that the death of Isa could send him against his country / the V.P. (excellent choice in Jamie Sheridan) but I, too, feel like there was something odd about Nazir's treatment of Isa and wonder if he was his child at all. So, I expect another plot-twist that tells us he was not and it was just another elaborate manipulation by Nazir.
For me, the problem with the series so far is that some of the scenes involving interpersonal relationships are at times presented so realistically and portrayed so superbly by the actors (especially Carrie & Brody in "Weekend") that I am brought down by some of the plot devices that don't rise to the same level.
Still, this series is one of the best I am watching right now so in some ways this is easy to overlook and I have no intention to stop watching.
amylavi I've noticed several people questioning whether Issa was really Nazir's son. I, too, wondered this during the episode. But, now, upon reflection, I wonder whether it even matters who Issa actually was. He was an Iraqi child who clearly was intimidated by Nazir and scared of the American. Of course Nazir is a master manipulator. We can see the effects he has had on both Brody & Walker. But, I think it is a MacGuffin to get preoccupied with whether he was Nazir's son or not. The point is that Brody developed genuine affection for this child, who probably made him think of the son he believed he may never see. That alone was enough to make him outraged (and so much more) when Issa was killed by American bombs.
November 28, 2011 at 12:49PM ESTNat King Kong Except, Amy, having Issa not be Nazir's son is a way out for Brody (and the writers). If it's true that Nazir was manipulating him with Issa -- and I think it is -- and Brody finds out, that would most likely be the last straw for Brody.
November 28, 2011 at 3:54PM ESTAlthough I don't buy that Brody would turn against his country to the point of working with a terrorist mastermind who clearly wants death and destruction to rain down on Americans -- which could include Brody's own kids. Just can't buy that, sorry. It's a bridge too far, imo.
Thom It may not be Nazirs son but tbf, i don't really think it matters whose son he was. He embodied love and affection and hope, something that Brody never thought he'd have again while he was being tortured. To have that light, that contact snatched away again?? I don't find it too hard to believe he would turn against those who he believes are responsible. In Brodys mind that's the military and the government not his kids..
November 28, 2011 at 8:11PM ESTClay
November 28, 2011 at 11:15AM EST Reply to CommentWe haven't seen all of Brody's time in captivity but these latest flashbacks show a child that is scared of not only Brody but Nazir. We also see very little of Nazir interacting with his "son," or Brody during that time. It seems a little too convenient for me that Brody lived so close to the location where Issa went to school where he could literally feel the impact and devastation of the bombing.
I totally bought these latest developments because Damien Lewis sold the hell out of that "bath," scene. The fact that Nazir and his people made Brody believe he had killed Walker and the fact that for whatever reason Walker has forsaken his family to become a terrorist sniper is enough manipulation to make Nazir capable of using an innocent child as a tool.
When Nazir got word that Brody was slipping away from him he performed a condensed version of his time in captivity. His people ambushed Brody savagely beat the shit out of him, drugged him only to have him wake up in a serene well kept room not unlike the place where he had his "rebirth."
Within the context of what we've seen with Brody the Nazir "son," stuff makes sense to me. It also makes me wonder what kind of psychology they used on Walker because he seems much more like a manchurian candidate type.
auburnspur I recently started reading Dominic Streatfeild's "Brainwash: The Secret History of Mind Control." Great read, and timely given all the questions regarding Brody - and possibly Walker - and how he was turned.
November 28, 2011 at 2:36PM ESTGarySF
November 28, 2011 at 12:01PM EST Reply to CommentI think this was a brilliant episode, as the writers gave us a good reason why Brody would be turned against the US gov't and bent on revenge. Through Brody's eyes, we see why some Muslims become radicals and/or terrorists against our country. This episode had the same effect as the Battlestar Galactica story arc when the fleet settled on New Caprica, and the Cylons became the occupying force. The producers turned our American egocentricities on their ear so we actually felt empathy for the human survivors (read: the Iraqi people). Only the best fiction can take us into the head of our enemy in a way that makes us understand what motivates him. While Brody's desire for revenge against his country may be a bit of a stretch for a once stalwart Marine, we don't yet know what else occurred during his captivity that, together with the Issa backstory, turned him into the enemy. Great piece of storytelling.
anon.z.moose One psychological element that this show adds that BSG did not do as well - the sense of hypocrisy in the aftermath and the anger this can generate in the anti-hero. The denials and rationalizations that flow from the event are portrayed briefly but effectively. The only element missing is the annoying media commentary that serves to marginalize anyone who doubts the standard version. I think we all experience this feeling at least once in our lives when a closely experienced story becomes public. Watching directly experienced events be denied and obfuscated in public can build the self-perception of victim-hood and I think that's portrayed well here.
November 28, 2011 at 4:03PM ESTberkowit28
November 28, 2011 at 12:52PM EST Reply to CommentSo if Walker was going to kill the hunter character just "to be safe", why didn't he do it in the woods? Why did he wait for the guy to get back to his car and almost make it out of there? That just seemed to be a setup for the audience, a bit fake.
amylavi I imagine he is planning on disposing of the body in a way that would make it less likely to be found than in the woods. Still, a pretty creepy scene, no?
November 28, 2011 at 2:18PM ESTauburnspur 1) allowed him to be sure the guy was alone
November 28, 2011 at 2:37PM EST2) target practice
HP A 3rd possibility - he is unsure about doing it. Its the first time we have actually seen him kill someone - up until now he had avoided doing so. I would like to think that inside him the same sort of conflict is taking place that is going on inside Brody (or for the terrorist couple for that matter).
November 28, 2011 at 2:47PM ESTAnon.Z.Moose Yes, to @auburnspur since most hunters don't travel alone it's a fair call by the writers to have him track the guy for awhile. Also makes a more satisfying 'when's it gonna happen' build up cause we all knew it was going to happen, right? Didn't the hunter watch "In the Line of Fire"? He should have been better prepared for that outcome!
November 28, 2011 at 4:24PM ESTDan3320 Not just "making sure he was alone" but Walker only has a long-range sniper rifle with him. I would imagine it would be hard for him to swing that around, aim it at the guy and pull the trigger before the guy might escape? Not really the ideal weapon for close combat...
November 30, 2011 at 11:07AM ESTRolf He wanted the guy's car I assume. After he killed him, he did drive off in the car.
November 30, 2011 at 11:06PM ESTWhy he waited for the guy to actually get into the car before he shot him - and needlessly smashing the back windshield in the process - I'm not so sure of.
Dozer
November 28, 2011 at 1:11PM EST Reply to CommentFew thoughts:
1) How does Carrie just drop the suspicion of Brody after she now knows that he spent significant time and sympathized with Abu Nazir? Might still want to keep an eye on the first person to consort with the world's most notorious terrorist.
2) Going back a bit, but why did they drop the entire search for the Saudi Prince and his aid? They saw him enter a potential money laundering/funneling area after murdering a CIA informant and they completely drop it just because he left the country? Now the Saudi ambassador is involved.
3) I don't think we can conclude that Brody is planning to kill the VP for revenge. It is possible though that Walker will take out the pres and Brody takes out #2. There could be some longer game motivations here though.
4) So Brody developed a deep caring for Issa. Understandable, but the whole time you are still being held captive by someone who condoned 5 years of brutal torture and held you away from your real children. Does Brody not even think about his won kids in this situation? How they are growing up without a father while he teaches Nazir's kid English?
5) Is Nazi not held partially responsible for putting Issa in harms way? You are running a terrorist organization and choose to have your son near your place of operation? If he was interested in protecting his kid, don't let him hang around with you and other terrorist while the U.S. is actively hunting you down.
6) The theory that maybe Walker is not turned and is trying to stop Brody is interesting. I don't know who he could of sneaked into the US and picked up a sniper rifle without help though. They need to explain how he was turned, how he got into the US, and why Brody was kept in the dark.
Thoughts?
HP 1. I would say that its not that she has totally forgotten about Brody - its that he is not the priority - as far as she knows, Brody does not want to speak to her, she knows that her bosses would NEVER authorize interogation or wire tapping him and he seems to genuinely think that he killed Walker. Also remember, for the first several episodes, most of her suspicion was based upon the idea that they 'turned' an American, not 2 Americans, just one. Finally, she has what she thinks is a genuine lead with the Imam, she knows time is of the essence, so she is focusing on that.
November 28, 2011 at 2:39PM EST2. I would say that they have not necessarily 'stopped' looking for the Prince's advisor, afterall they only showed Carrie for what, 15 or 20 mins over 2 days? As for the fact that he is a Saudi - the fact that Saudis are involved in terrorism is NOT new information - its pretty common knowledge that Saudi Arabia has closer ties to Al Quaida than possibly any other country (that includes Iran and Pakistan). I would imagine that they have had several leads that take them to Saudi Arabia that get shut down because of Saudia Arabia's special relationship with the US.
3. I think its too early to say what Brody will do - I could see him as either a)a backup plan to in case Walker is captured or b)maybe they just want a guy in govt. (congress, VP whatever) who is friendly to their interests. The idea that a returning war hero will be vetted for office is not a crazy notion - the US has done so since its 1st president. Which is one reason why I (hope) believe that the advisor woman to the VP is NOT working for 'them.'
4. I think the problem is that you are attempting to apply rational reasoning to what is a deeply emotional event. Think about people who are held hostage who wind up developing affection for their captors - logically they should not be doing so - but on a deeper/emotional level something clicks inside them. Nazir can also be seen as the man who 'rescued' him from his torment and showed him compassion, trust and respect when noone else did. As for Brody's family, who is to say he was not thinking about them? But he might have been made to think that they all had moved on and forgotten about them. Or that he would never see them again so he grabs hold of the only human contact available to him - that kid. If you are starving, you don't stop and wonder if your kids are hungry somewhere, you just eat. And I think a case could be made that at this point, Brody might see his son as Issa than the other way around.
5. I think that based upon what they showed, its not clear how much 'terrorist' activities are actually being done at the location where Brody was being held. But to a certain degree, that does not matter so much, for a terorist, pretty much anywhere you are is dangerous. I think from Nazir's point of view, its not so much about whose to blame - its about hypocrisy. The US attempts to downplay the civilians it kills on a regular basis (how precise its strikes are to try and avoid innocent people). Furthermore it tries to dehumanize them by using technical terms like collatoral damage. The US in many ways has the worst record of any country since WW2 in terms of bombing civilians - we destroyed cities in Japan, then labeled most of Vietnam 'free shoot' zones in which everyone was viewed as an enemy combatant, we bombed hospitals and schools during the first Gulf War and now the drone strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
6. I think that Walker absolutely is turned - that is how he got the rifle. Not letting Brody know is a)part of typical terrorist cell approach - you dont want any person knowing too much in case they are captured, ESPECIALLY if it is true that Brody is acting under his 'free will' you dont want him to come back and say that Walker is still alive. B)I think making Brody think he killed walker helps brainwashing him by filling him with guilt and shame that Islam helps to cleanse C)Having Brody beat Walker almost to death can help in brainwashing Walker, as they can say to him 'see, not even your brother in the army cares about you - he would beat you to death to save his own skin.' I could see them having built up hatred in Walker towards Brody and thus the US, which enabled them to turn him. Either way, I do hope that they show how they broke Walker, otherwise it bothers me that in the logic of the Show Brody has some degree of free will, whereas Walker is more like a robot (not counting his calling his wife and kid).
The idea that Walker is actually trying to stop Brody and their plot is I think the one thing that would make me stop watching the show because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Someone would have had to have helped him escape from the camp and then brought him to the US without telling the FBI or CIA for what purpose? To hunt down Brody? Or to kill someone else who is working with the terrorists (ie the VP or whomever)? Doesnt make ANY sense.
Dozer So we agree that currently there are a great deal of holes to be filled. Many of which, offer many opportunities for the writers to go 24 and, in my opinion, deprive the show of a lot of its potential for originality.
November 28, 2011 at 4:45PM EST1) I agree that her focus is on the task at hand but she doesn't seem to be mentioning any Brody connections for the last 2 episodes. Does she not have a professesional obligation to inform people that Brody lied in his debriefing? I realize this comes at the cost of his confidence and she has a clear personal conflict but let's be real, we're talking about the equivalent of someone spending time with Osama Bin Laden and you don't even want to interrogate further? It seems unrealistic for someone like Carrie who appears to stop at nothing to prevent an attack on the U.S. Maybe she is still suspicious but I'm not a mind reader.
2) Obviously Saudi-terrorist connections is not a new revelation. This doesn't change that nothing is being shown or mentioned for any search for the prince or his crew. We can only speculate and nothing has reassured these speculations.
4) I understand the existence of Stockholm syndrome and the possibility that Issa is acting like a surrogate source of affection. It's still inhuman for him to show no reluctance or even question Nazir about why he is being deprived of his real family. He may just be acting as a tolerable prisoner but you'd think it would come up.
5) base of operations or not, where ever Nazir walks is a target. The line "And they call us terrorists" clearly alludes to the hypocritical terrorist argument. They beat you over the head with it with the 2 dead in the Masque as well that is blatantly covered up by the FBI. I'm not getting into the political argument of civilian casualties due to strikes like these. The forum is not long enough to begin.
6) Agreed. Walker is turned or else they'd need another 5 episodes just to explain it.
stephanie_sigafoos
November 28, 2011 at 1:25PM EST Reply to CommentFor me, the allure of this show continues to lie in its many uncertainties. I didn't feel at all after watching this episode that there is any certainty Brody has been turned, nor that he wants to kill the VP. I do feel that the events of his time in captivity have softened him to Abu Nazir's thinking, and that his conversion to Islam is one that is truly faith-based rather than converting for the sake of his new brethren.
I thought Damian Lewis did a phenomenal job in this episode, especially his earnest and methodical work with Issa -- to both gain his trust, and to become a teacher to the student. Notice how that worked the other way around, and Issa was the teacher in Islamic custom and morning prayer. It certainly lended an innocence, for me, to Brody's conversion and to my thoughts that his mind isn't rooted in the evil the way they want the audience to believe.
It will be interesting to see how quickly Brody is thrust into the political spotlight, and if the American people would be as accepting of the candidate if rivals start picking apart that war hero image.
anon.z.moose I know it's a useless comment but for the very small number of viewers who've studied Arabic the mispronunciations are annoying. Lewis is especially painful to listen to though I give him an 'A' for effort, I suppose.
November 28, 2011 at 4:16PM ESTMoving along . . . to another subset of people who also saw Damages this season: the boy reminds me of the kid kept by the CIA agent in that show. I kept thinking 'why does this seem so familiar?' and then it hit me. A very similar sequence in that show - might even be the same actor.
R ^Same. I haven't studied Arabic, but often have heard the my neighbor pray or watch prayers on TV. And Damian Lewis's pronunciation of "Allahu Akbar" just sounds so awkward/incorrect to me. I don't know other arabic words so can't comment on others, but I definitely noted that one.
December 7, 2012 at 4:42PM ESTRob
November 28, 2011 at 6:31PM EST Reply to CommentNo, not convinced at all. From a storyline perspective to bring Issa into this show from zero to sixty in about 20 minutes to give Brody motivation to turn on his home country, I don't believe it for a second. I know that's what the writers want us to believe, but the reason - at least for me - seems lazy and rushed. So he teaches the kid and English and in turn he re-discovers his own humanity through him. The kid dies and that's enough to send him over the edge? To betray everything he stands for not only as an American but a Marine Corps officer? No. I hope it's a disguise and a play on Brody's part to lure Nazzir into the open and maybe help to catch him. Otherwise his motivation to join Al Queda was pretty weak in the first place and all episodes from here on out lose credibility.
anon.z.moose One would hope that a highly trained Marine Gunnery Sergeant would at least know he needed to get counseling after getting back home. But he didn't even though he seems to be aware that he's got issues. I just watched a documentary that interviewed P.O.W.s who chose to stay in China after the Korean war when offered a chance to leave. They were few in number, overall, but proof there's no iron law about the effects of captivity. Room enough for a tv show to latch onto at any rate. Recall that Brody was subjected to all sorts of psychological and physical conditioning by his tormentors. And the writers are portraying him as not simply brainwashed, giving him a degree of agency and as such not fully committed to mechanistically carrying out some protocol. In that context, I contend the show gets us the minimum plausibility we need as an audience to suspend our disbelief and go with it.
November 28, 2011 at 6:53PM ESTDozer I agree. Though captivity and torture could have any number of effects on a person despite their psychological fortitude, teaching a kid English and rediscovering his humanity overrides the fact that he was taken away from his his 2 real children, his wife, and the country he loves enough to risk his life to defend it? It seemed very abrupt and undeveloped if this is the lynchpin of Nazirs conditioning and his perceived resentment of everything he risked his life to defend in the first place.
November 29, 2011 at 7:14PM ESTC Tocci
November 28, 2011 at 7:11PM EST Reply to CommentCan't believe that Sgt. Brody could juggle a soccer ball that well. He's an American. Bad acting by Damien Lewis.
C Tocci
November 28, 2011 at 7:12PM EST Reply to CommentCan't believe Sgt. Brody can juggle a soccer ball so well. He's an American. Bad acting by Damien Lewis.
Benmo
November 28, 2011 at 9:58PM EST Reply to Commentif you watch the original Israeli series, you will realize that your suspicions of multiple twists still to come is highly likely. I really enjoyed this episode. good background story, very tightly drawn. I also love how Brody was missed by just seconds coming out of the house, and the moment was passed over almost nonchalantly.
Dave I
November 28, 2011 at 10:51PM EST Reply to CommentI really loved this episode. It gave Brody a reason to be like he is. I don't get how it strained credibility at all. It seems very holistic that Nicholas Brody would grow to love Nazir after finding God/Allah, growing to love his son, and then sympathizing when America drone-bombed a school yard that killed the kid he saw (rightfully so) as a surrogate son and claimed it was terrorist propaganda instead of taking any responsibility. Granted, the five years spent before being picked to teach Nazir's son English (eight total in captivity) would probably be enough to change anybody to some degree, this gave him a more personal and internal motivation which makes for a richer storytelling experience (to me at least) and helps at least give some human perspective to Nazir. Not that I sympathize with terrorists, yet it helps when you get a realistic motive for villains rather than have them turn into cartoony villains.
-Cheers
bitchstolemyremote
November 29, 2011 at 12:09AM EST Reply to CommentWe totally bought the conversion - Damian Lewis' acting in the flashback scenes was incredibly powerful. Like you, Alan, we're still concerned that there may be shocking twists afoot, but thus far the show has maintained a good balance between its realism and its sensationalism. Check out our full recap here: http://wp.me/p1VQBq-5Q
Dave
November 29, 2011 at 12:39AM EST Reply to CommentWhat I think this show continues to do really well is paint small, believable human moments which make the more fantastical elements a little easier to swallow. As many commentators mentioned last week, the Carrie-Brody sex scene was one of the best, most humanely recognizable sex scenes I may have ever seen. And this weeks Brody-Isa moments were equally beautiful.
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