Review: 'Game of Thrones' - 'You Win or You Die': The boar war
The game gets very, very serious in the most exciting episode yet
Dany (Emilia Clarke) and friends in "Game of Thrones."
A review of tonight's "Game of Thrones" coming up just as soon as I tell you I got caught stealing a wheel of cheese...
"And only by admitting what we are can we get what we want." -Littlefinger
Holy. Cow.
Now that I'm seeing episodes week-by-week like the rest of you (see the bottom of this post for a reminder of my review schedule for the rest of the season), it took a whole lot of willpower to come away from the final scene (and particularly that incredible final image) of "You Win or You Die" to not bust out my copy of the book - or, worse, to just fire up the Google machine to find out what the hell happens next in that crazy country of Westeros. Because that episode, and that last scene, were both bananas.
The titular game of thrones (which gets namechecked in the line from Cersei that also provides the individual episode name) has moved past the opening gambit stage now. Major players are falling, alliances are being made and broken, and based on what we know is happening in the north with the White Walkers and to the east with the Dothraki, the game is bound to get a lot bloodier in a damn hurry. These people don't have time to be stressing about who sits on the Iron Throne, not when giant zombies and/or relentless master warriors are on their way.
And what's most obvious of all is how spectacularly out of his depth our man Ned Stark is.
I remember showing a draft of my pre-season review of the show to Fienberg for input, who's read some of the books, and when he got to the section about me suggesting Ned as the only man who deserves the Throne, he said, simply, "Ned would be a terrible king." I argued with him, forgetting of course that he knows more about the character and story than I did. But we've seen over the past couple of episodes exactly what George R.R. Martin has told me and others is a key theme of the story: that the best men don't always make the best rulers. Ned's an honorable man and a hell of a soldier, but he is (to borrow a metaphor from another great HBO drama) playing checkers on a chess board. And, worse, he assumes everyone else is doing the same. Renly and Littlefinger both try to warn him that he needs to get his head in gear before Cersei winds up 17 moves ahead of him, but he's so convinced that his clever gambit with Robert's dying proclamation will carry the day - and that the Baratheon relative best-suited to run the kingdom is a fellow soldier in elder brother Stannis - and is caught flat-footed when Cersei installs Joffrey onto the throne, and worse when Littlefinger betrays him just as he's been suggesting for months that he would.
Cersei has been cheating on the king all these years, and plans to put a boy who's not the rightful heir onto the throne, but we've seen and heard plenty of evidence about what a sham the Baratheon marriage was. And if incest - at least among royals - is more socially acceptable in ancient Westeros than 21st century America - well... Cersei's still an unpleasant schemer, but she's not without her legitimate motivations.
And Littlefinger's lesson to Roz (who of course wound up in his brothel after leaving Winterfell) not only tells us how he got his nickname, but explains exactly how and why he wound up playing this particular role on the king's council, and in this story. Like Cersei, he was betrayed and dismissed by the one he loved to the point of worship, and so he set about making himself more clever than his rivals, understanding that his brains and savvy would ultimately carry the day when his pure intentions and swordsmanship didn't back in the day.
There's an interesting contrast throughout the episode between those who know exactly who they are (Cersei, Littlefinger, Khal Drogo) versus those who don't (Ned, Jon Snow, perhaps Jaime Lannister). The former group are all ascendant, all making impressive moves towards claiming some or all of the Iron Throne, while the latter are fumbling about, being given lectures on what they should do but not quite sure what advice to take.
Hot damn, I can't wait to see what comes next.
Some other thoughts:
• Charles Dance makes his first appearance as oft-mentioned Lannister patriarch Tywin, who spends the entirety of his scene with Jaime expertly butchering a hog, or boar, or some form of pig relative. Where Robert was too drunk to properly kill a boar without getting killed himself, Tywin knows his way around swine. (UPDATE: Or, as many of you - who may have watched in more optimal viewing conditions than me using HBO Go on my iPad - pointed out, it appears it was a stag, which is the sigil of House Baratheon.)
• Speaking of which, rest in peace, King Robert. Given the nature of the story, I'm not exactly shocked that he didn't even make it to the end of the first season, but I'm still surprised it was such a prosaic, seemingly random death. (Varys suggests that Lancel Lannister might have spiked Robert's drink, but I also have no problem believing that Robert got that drunk on his own.)
• Given what we learned about Varys last week, I have a feeling that he could have very easily called off the assassination attempt had he wanted to. Meanwhile, we see Jorah Mormont apparently throw away his royal pardon for a chance to save Dany's life, which seems to track with what the late Viserys said about Jorah's feelings for his sister. Of course, given Drogo's obvious feelings for his wife - note him bypassing an immediate opportunity to beat up the assassin because he's so concerned to see that Dany is okay - I can't imagine how Jorah thinks he actually has a shot.
• Another notable contrast comes between the oaths taken by Jon Snow (practiced, traditional, somewhat reluctant, and some combination of masochism and foolhardiness, given what he and we now know about life along the Wall) and Drogo (spontaneous, full of passion and resolve, and again affirming the love of his pregnant young bride). I hadn't realized Jon hadn't already taken the oath, and when I realized briefly hoped he'd be wise enough to get the hell away from that place.
• Jon's oath scene also provides our first direwolf appearance in a few weeks. I know some of you were starting to worry.
• I liked the scene between Theon and the wildling woman he and Robb captured last week, mainly for getting the perspective of a foreigner who doesn't know the rules of the games being played by the people of Westeros and gets to question them (like why Theon should be called "Lord") in a way a citizen wouldn't.
• Interesting to see Joffrey seem genuinely upset at his father's impending death - or was it just that he was shaken to finally have his emotionally-distant father paying attention to him after all these years?
Two reminders. First, as always, our goal here is to discuss the TV show AS A TV SHOW. Many of us - myself included - haven't ready the books and don't want our enjoyment spoiled by readers giving away plot details, backstory, motivation, etc., that has yet to be revealed on the show itself. Simple rule: if it hasn't come up on the show yet in some form, it is off-limits. For the most part, everyone's been very good about this, but I had to delete a few comments last week.
Second, as mentioned last week, this is the last review of the season that's going to be posted right after the East Coast airing, and only because I (like many of you) got to watch the episode early on HBO Go. My reviews of the season's final three episodes are going to be posted either late Sunday night or else early Monday morning. Your patience is appreciated.
What did everybody else think?
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Next 205 Comments
May 29, 2011 at 10:06PM EST Reply to CommentExcellent review... but one nitpick! Tywin's not skinning a boar, but a _stag_ .... which is quite appropriate symbolism, given the Baratheon sigil. :)
Miki in case you missed one... here is it: http://www.the-movie-review.info/category/game-of-thrones/
May 31, 2011 at 1:18PM ESTGP
May 29, 2011 at 10:09PM EST Reply to CommentTywin was skinning a deer not a boar.
Andrew
May 29, 2011 at 10:09PM EST Reply to CommentAs a book reader, I Know what's coming so it's almost more exciting to get the reactions of newbies like yourself. I absolutely hated some of this episode but really like a lot of the rest of it. Worst scene of the series so far is Littlefinger's monologue. Two reasons: first, it makes Littlefinger transparent when he shouldn't be. There's foreshadowing and there's anvilling. That was an anvil. Second it's the first time the woo we're HBO and can show sex bothered me. It's mostly the character bit, but that was an added scene and it seems like a large majority of the scenes they're adding contain sex. It's getting a little gross.
Stan As good as Aiden Gillen was on The Wire, he's been dreadful as Littlefinger. It just seems like he's reading his lines, or getting bad direction about what the character is supposed to be. It's pretty jarring.
May 29, 2011 at 10:14PM ESTJoseph I agree with Andrew. I cringed through most of that scene in an otherwise fantastic episode. It was too much hand holding and the sex was almost straight pornography.
May 29, 2011 at 10:39PM ESTKevin I think the opposite, Stan. I liked Carcetti as a character, but found Aidan Gillen's performance wanting, but I think he's been utterly brilliant as Littlefinger. To each their own.
May 29, 2011 at 10:40PM ESTPennywise Agreed! The monologue was absolutely awful. HBO, I get it, you want the nudity to get people talking about this show but at this point, they're only talking about it in a bad way. It was incredibly distracting having that nonsense going on in the background (or foreground in some shots). In fact it even looked like Gillen was distracted by it as well! It felt like he was trying really hard to remember his lines and it completely took me out of things.
May 29, 2011 at 10:49PM ESTSareeta I agree with this. I was initially excited about Aiden Gillen as Littlefinger, but I feel like there's none of the sly, cunning character traits coming through... He seems to just be reading his lines. And don't get me started on the sex scene. Gross and embarrassing to watch.
May 29, 2011 at 11:05PM ESTmake love like a pornstar Watching Sareeta have sex is gross and embarrassing.
May 29, 2011 at 11:27PM ESTwebdiva The point of that scene was to remind us that Peter is a whoremaster, admits it, and is good at what he does, which is looking out for number one first, last and always. He's also a betrayer, and very good at that, too, which is something Ned Stark should have taken at face value when first warned. And I'll bet a hundred casks of poisoned wine meant for Danaerys that the woman Petyr Belish was talking about was Catelyn Stark. But then, we knew that the moment he began reciting the tale, didn't we? (And no, that's not spoilers but speculation, as I haven't read the books and don't really plan to in the forseeable future).
May 29, 2011 at 11:54PM ESTIreneInIdaho Talk about a gratuitous sex scene! Not I what I pay extra for HBO to see. That was just a waste of time. (And no, I'm not some blushing conservative just because I'm currently stuck in Idaho.)
May 30, 2011 at 1:19AM ESTzzzz About Littlefinger being too brash/not secretive enough:
May 30, 2011 at 3:40AM ESTPeople complaining do realize this is TV, right? There is no inner monologue. He HAS to talk to somebody to develop his character. Who can he talk to reveal his inner self? Not Ned certainly. Not Varys, their scene only showed he was scheming but not much else. Talking to his whores is all he can really do, and Aidan Gillen was brilliant. ONCE AGAIN IN CAPS: HE HAS TO TALK. TO ANOTHER PERSON. TO DEVELOP HIS CHARACTER.
As for being too explicit: GASP. TITTIES. Let’s see:
- horse beheading
- numerous throats being cut/slit/ripped out by direwolves and then they ZOOM in on it
- splinter through the throat, and then LINGER on the blood bubbles
- blood everywhere, pretty much
But TITS. SEX. IT’S TOO OFFENSIVE. HEAVEN HELP US, MY EYES AND DELICATE SENSIBILITIES CANNOT HANDLE THIS OBSCEN — Hey, look! Stabbed right through the eye and LINGER on it! Uh, winning! Great TV, feel the drama!
Fran 1) TV Littlfinger has no inner monologue, it's true, but neither does book Littlefinger. The information we had as viewers prior to that scene was the same information readers had at this point(IIRC): Ned's brother fought him in a duel over Cat (known), and he still carries a torch for Cat (suspected).
May 30, 2011 at 5:39AM ESTIt could be argued that the scene was supposed to illustrate Petyr as some master deceiver, manipulator, etc., while he goes over again the possible reasons he might have to explain being willing to screw over Ned. But if so, it obviously didn't work well with some viewers -- myself included. There have been too many scenes already that came off as sexposition to make this one too easily dismissible by viewers as just another one of those rather than a legitimate artistic choice. It also wasn't executed very well. If this scene was supposed to really reveal Littlefinger, then why focus so much on the secondary action instead of letting Aiden Gillen reveal who his character is?
2) I can pretty much guarantee you that 5 minutes of camera shots flipping back and forth between Petyr and Jaime stabbing Jory in the eye while Jory yells over Petyr's monologue would've gotten the same amount of WTF's, if not more.
belinda I like Gillen in The Wire and here. I don't mind/enjoy a bit of gratuitous sex scenes as well.
May 30, 2011 at 6:05AM ESTI just think with this particular scene, the background sex distracted me from what I thought was a pretty excellent bit of monologue - and I do think this is something the show needs to kind of pay attention to, like they're not confident enough that the speech is good enough and threw in a sex scene just in case people got bored or something.
And lol. I totally busted in the book after this episode. Ah, well. Made it til episode 7.
Hwat I didn't like that scene either, they finally crossed the line of "humans being humans" into "we have to add crude stuff to please the horny teenagers". I think Gillen has been brilliant as Littlefinger, but this scene was just repeating what we have essentially been told now (and I find dislike in "Ros"). If they thought it important to repeat that they could have put it in the 'previously on' segment.
May 30, 2011 at 8:26AM ESTBtw as for his name, he told us how he got the nickname several episodes ago. He came from an area on the map called The Fingers - and he is small of stature.
webdiva Here's a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the gratuitous sex scene while Baelish was schooling his whores was **supposed** to be revolting and uncomfortable because what a whoremaster/pimp does is innately repulsive? It certainly occurred to me.
May 30, 2011 at 10:25AM ESTSareeta Actually, it's not necessary for Littlefinger to talk about how his mind is working. In the books he's not a POV character so we know as much as we need to know based on the characters know/knew him. Really, knowing of all Varys' little birds, I'm not sure why Littlefinger confides in a brand new whore of all people.
May 30, 2011 at 10:26AM ESTwebdiva Uh, because he was *bragging* -- ? Really: like nearly all master manipulators, Baelish has more than a little (pun intended) insecurity driving him. I detect a whiff of Napoleonic complex there. It's the short, underachieving guys you have to watch, especially when they've seemingly embraced their underachievement as Baelish professes to have, even as he wants 'everything' that might be available. And he expects the brand-new whore to be dependent therefore beholden to him, so he figures he's not losing much, if anything, by telling her this little bit. Besides, he wants *someone* to know how smart he is in advance. And that wounded pride of his may be his undoing one day: Pride goeth before the fall; the fall just takes longer to get there for master manipulators.
May 30, 2011 at 11:18AM ESTStan Um. Aiden Gillen has been far from brilliant as Littlefinger. I go back to the scene with Catelyn Stark where he tells her the dagger is his. Something about the way he speaks is just cringe-worthy bad. Him walking through the garden telling Ned Stark about all the spies in the Kingdom just seems awkward and flat. I just don't think Gillen has been given enough guidance on who Littlefinger is.
May 30, 2011 at 12:32PM ESTTC @ZZZ There is no inner monologue for Littlefinger in the books either. The problem with the scene for me is that someone as secretive as Littlefinger isn't going to be discussing his lowest moments and true desires with a whore who is auditioning for him that just arrived from the north. Beyond that the speech implies several things that are big changes from the source material. #1, that he doesn't think Catelyn is particularly beautiful, but has impeccable blood lines... and #2 that his primary motivation is revenge and "screwing" people over. I never got that impression at all from the books, I completely believe Littlefinger would have preferred Ned take over as hand reagent and make peace with the Lannisters, setting Littlefinger up as his chief advisor. It was only when Ned refused and insisted on crowning Stannis that he was betrayed because Stannis would have removed Littlefinger from power.
May 30, 2011 at 1:09PM ESTThat being said I think the acting was fine, it was the writing I took exception with. The sex scene was over the top, but if it had really added anything of importance I would have been fine with it. For it to be the longest sex scene in the series so far and be one that isn't based on the books with so much other book material being cut due to length is a shame. I mean they cut off several words off the Night's Watch vows for this?
Although I am sure it is very subjective I can't say I found the sex scene at all gross - and isn't this type of thing that might be expected inside, you know, a brothel?
May 30, 2011 at 2:25PM ESTI also don't think it was gratuitous - and whether one finds it gross or titillating - it was distracting, but it was meant to be. That is the point, people are so distracted by the games in which Little finger is directing them in that they entirely fail to see his real motivations. The whores who are only half interested in his story of unrequited love, Ned Starck who foolishly trusted him, Cersei who is sure that she knows Littlefinger is nothing but mercenary in his intentions that she he has no idea of the real scope of his ambitions. And just as we are meant to be distracted by the sex (whether being grossed out or titillated) whilst something important is being said in Littlefingers monologue, so the players in the game of thrones in Westeros are so distracted by the immediate that they dangerously unaware of what is brewing across the sea and over the wall.
Damien I liked the double meaning of his words to the girls: the way he was instructing them to act with a man is the way he interacts with everyone around him: make them forget their getting fucked. What did he say? Something like, "you know it's not real, they know it's not real, it's your job to make them forget it's not real"... this is how Littlefinger treats everyone. So the double meaning is every bit as out there as Tywin Lannister's carving up the House of Baratheon in the first scene...
May 30, 2011 at 3:30PM ESTFran I don't think it serves the scene's purpose if viewers are distracted by the director's choices to the point of annoyance. As it is, the scene illustrates the director's ability to manipulate and distract, not Petyr's. The scene may have worked if it showed Ros and company so involved in their own activity (directed by Littlefinger) as to miss his revelations about himself -- to himself, and not to Ros. That could've also solved the whole issue of whether or not Petyr would speak of his past with someone he just met: yes, he would, because he's so certain of his own abilities to obfuscate and misdirect.
May 31, 2011 at 5:27AM ESTTodd Mark me down as hating the scene too. I think it failed of two levels. 1) I see exactly what they wanted out of the scene (to see Littlefinger doing what he does well, and having a canny whore tease some self reflection out of him as an opportunity to allow the character to give voice to some iteration of himself, if not a totally honest one) but don't think that was necessary (Littlefinger's scheming is best when he reveals less, and lets us make connections) and 2) the scene was very poorly executed, especially in the whore-instruction (I didn't buy what he told her, of what she did, or the reaction to it in any way... it was just so undercooked and nonspecific, and would have been painful looking if you could understand what the hell they were doing), which undermined the whole thing (you were supposed to believe that with a few "insightful" words he could teach her to be a better consort, but the advice and the result were so baffling, imprecise, and clumsy, it was like they were using the moans to sell us on how sly he was, which made me confused, annoyed, and manipulated by such a half asses attempt). In contrast, the deer dressing scene rocked.
May 31, 2011 at 7:44PM ESTChrissy Didn't like the scene either. I'd compare it to Viserys's scene in the tub, which I liked very much. Both accomplish HBO's assumed goal of titillation, but the Viserys scene is actually sensual. More importantly, we get a well-written piece of exposition that tells an interesting story and reveals info about why Viserys is who he is. And, in the final rejection, we're reminded of just that through action.
May 31, 2011 at 9:05PM ESTThis scene by contrast felt flat, and weirdly-staged. If the point is what a manipulator Littlefinger is, why is he practically craning his neck upwards in every shot like a child? Why is he telling a nobody about a painful memory? The line about impeccable blood lines was pretty bad too. Does he truly love Catelyn, or was she just a ticket to power? After that scene I still have no idea.
Frank
May 29, 2011 at 10:09PM EST Reply to CommentGood review of an excellent episode.
Drogo's vow scene was excellent, as was the final shot.
Also: Tywin was butchering a stag in the opening scene, not a pig. It's symbolism at its finest ;-)
webdiva Finally -- more Khal Drogo!! Wow, he said more in this episode than in all the previous ones combined. It takes a while for him to really get pissed off, but the mainlanders have done it now.
May 30, 2011 at 12:21AM ESTBut I still haven't seen enough of the direwolves. Half a minute of Jon's Ghost wasn't but a tease, dammit.
Damien I'm sorry, but did George Martin have to COMPLETELY rip off Stsr Trek when he created the Dothraki?? Warrior Race? Check. Harsh, guttural language? Check.
May 30, 2011 at 12:51AM ESTI'm willing to believe that perhaps it's the show creators that are portraying the Dothraki as Klingon clones (instead of Martin), but so far there's too many similarities and the Drogo speech had Klingon written all over it. I'm not saying it's a terrible thing to allow the Dothraki cultural similarities, but it's almost at the point where I'm fully expecting Worf to show up and help invade the 7 Kingdoms!!
@DAMIEN: So they couldn't be based on Aztecs, Assyrians, Mongols, Vikings or any other race/group in history? It's very narrow-minded to call them a Klingon rip-off. Until Drogo whips out a crescent-shaped, arm-length blade and engages the cloaking device on his horse, that's a grossly uninsightful generalization
May 30, 2011 at 1:13AM ESTFor that matter, what didn't "Star Trek" rip off in its day? The Romulans were so heavily based on the Roman Empire that they couldn't even have an original language. The Cardassians were completely inspired by the Soviet Union. You've gotta' call it both ways, dude.
Bastiardo @Damien: you also gotta remember thar in terms of their "gutteral Langauge" thats all HBO. Martin made up about 10 words of Dothraki. Its open to interpretation exactly what they are like in book (I always pictures them as copper skinned, asian mongol types).
May 30, 2011 at 1:33AM ESTIf your gonna blame anyone for them being Klingonesque (really just Drogo) Blame HBO, not Martin.
Brian It says more about you that the generic trappings you mentioned conjure up "Klingons" first than it does about the writer of the books. The traits you mentioned are very standard.
May 30, 2011 at 3:38AM ESTGuyITC While I see some of the points you guys are making, I have to side with Damien on this.
May 30, 2011 at 6:52AM ESTThey are all tall, muscular, kind of dark skinned, long black hair, and a lot of what Jorah has been describing do Dani sounds like Klingon honor.
Oh, and the language? I'm not sure they aren't actually speaking Klingon.
webdiva @Damien and GuyITC -- Y'all don't know your history or anthropology: I immediately figured they were modeling from Tatars, Magyars and Mongols, all of whom would have been rough, dark, fierce and swarthy. As opposed to Vikings, Celts, medieval Mohammedans, Maori, or Goths, etc. -- because, of course, that's who Gene Roddenberry ripped off (or, shall we say, looked to for source material) when he created Klingons. How did *you* not see that?? The fact that your first guess was Klingons tells me you spend way too much time on TV sci-fi and not enough on history books.
May 30, 2011 at 10:47AM EST
Oh, that's rich. Damien, how sheltered are you? Do you know nothing of our own history on this planet? WIthout even delving into the realms of fiction you could find at least 5 Earth cultures analogous to the Dothraki.
May 30, 2011 at 1:48PM ESTOr you could just look here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProudWarriorRaceGuy
Damien Yikes! I didn't expect quite that large a backlash over an observation. I know I probably shouldn't have used the term "rip off"... it was too inflammatory a term for a message board. Let's use "similarity" instead of "rip off"...
May 30, 2011 at 2:58PM ESTYes, I am a student of history. Lol! OF COURSE the Dothraki are going to be based on many different "real world" historical cultures and tribes. OF COURSE the Klingons were as well. OF COURSE that is primarily what they're based on. I get it. We can MOST DEFINITELY all agree on that point.
That being said, I didn't think it was an enormous leap of faith to be finding similarities between the 2 fictional warrior races. Especially in that scene too. Can we agree on that as well? The Klingons immediately came to mind in that scene not because I'm naive and have my head up my ass, but because they're another fictional warrior race portrayed on television. I'm sure there are folks that will be able to inform me of 3 other fictional warrior cultures from TV, but can we agree as well that the Klingons would be ONE fictional TV race that would come to mind for most viewers within the fantasy/sci-fi genre? I don't think that's a stretch...
Also, as I said in my first post, I am more then willing to believe those involved with the TV show are the ones that grossly portray any of these similarities, and not the author of the book itself. All new things draw inspiration from those things that come before it. I think we can agree on that too. In fact, thank you to @Bastiardo, who mentioned above that in the books the author only has 10 Dothraki words and not an entire language. That was very useful.
Lastly, don't take me the wrong way: This show is the first one in a long time that has me actually waiting for Sunday night instead of On Demanding the show randomly during the week when I have the time. I find it smart, well written, and enjoyable; I very much look forward to watching Khal Drogo kick some 7 Kingdom butt!
Kimsie Damien needs to quote TV tropes more. Noble Race Warrior is a fairly common trope. Actively being subverted with the whole "We Rape People Here" motif.
June 6, 2011 at 4:46PM EST
May 29, 2011 at 10:09PM EST Reply to CommentI thought Tywin was butchering a stag? (which is symbolic as that is the Baratheon symbol.)
Jake
May 29, 2011 at 10:10PM EST Reply to CommentAlan, great review, as always. I am almost positive the animal Tywin was cutting up was a deer or some antlered creature, but your metaphor still works regardless.
Stan
May 29, 2011 at 10:11PM EST Reply to CommentI thought Tywin was gutting a stag.
Lee
May 29, 2011 at 10:11PM EST Reply to CommentIt wasn't a pig Tywin was butchering it was a stag, ie Roberts sigal.
May 29, 2011 at 10:14PM EST Reply to CommentYeah, Tywin was skinning a stag, not a boar. But great review and this was my favorite episode to date!
alex
May 29, 2011 at 10:14PM EST Reply to CommentI got the impression that the suspicion about Lancel wasn't that he spiked Robert's wine, but that he was offering it up freely to intentionally get Robert drunk. If I remember right, Lancel offered ("More wine your Grace?") the wine twice in a short span, when, in previous episodes, Robert had to demand it from him.
Same result in the end, but a minor observation.
Fantastic episode overall, can't wait for the next one.
May 29, 2011 at 10:15PM EST Reply to CommentI believe Tywin was butchering a stag. Nice.
sharmon
May 29, 2011 at 10:16PM EST Reply to CommentBrilliant. Though I've read the first three books (the first two twice), I'm still stunned each week by the series -- how good it is, how wrapped up into I get, how surprised I am by the events. They've done an exceptional job of translating the books. Love it! Oh -- and great review. :-)
mely
May 29, 2011 at 10:17PM EST Reply to CommentI don't think that the wine was spiked, but the squire boy *was* constantly offering more to Robert, thus making sure he would be falling-down drunk.
webdiva The squire was probably trying to stay out of trouble and keep the king from yelling at him again. don't you remember the scene a few episodes back when Robert ran out of wine and started taking it out on the squire?? You bet that kid was gonna be ready with the wine next time Robert asked -- and not run short again. Nahhh, Robert brought about his own demise, which is all you can expect when he'd been self-destructive for years.
May 29, 2011 at 11:58PM ESTmiamipuck
May 29, 2011 at 10:18PM EST Reply to CommentHe wasn't butchering "a hog, or boar, or some form of pig relative.".
Tywin Lannister was butchering a stag. My guess it was foreshadowing what was going to happen to hoouse Baratheon as it is their Sigil.
miamipuck Sorry you guys are fast............
May 29, 2011 at 10:18PM ESTLJA
May 29, 2011 at 10:20PM EST Reply to CommentI left this episode breathless. Hot damn that was great! And for just the tiniest moment, I had a little bit of sympathy for Jaime Lannister.
I'm really drawn to the power of Khal Drogo and Dany's relationship. Oddly enough, the Khal is a feminist character. He is turned on by Dany's power (last week when she ate the heart), he doesn't treat his wife as chattel, he respects her (the silent conference between them before he imposed death on her brother). Despite being the neanderthal of the story, he is actually something of a renaissance man. And Jason Momoa is hotter than hell.
nic919 I believe that the upcoming Conan movie is going to have a few more women attend as a result of his performance as Khal Drogo.
May 29, 2011 at 10:25PM ESTI do agree though because he isn't the "savage" that the Westeros families try to make him out to be, especially as their treatment of women has not been as good.
webdiva I don't know that I'd call Khal Drogo a Renaissance man, but he's clearly well skilled enough in the things a horse lord needs to know and doesn't seem opposed to learning more when the need arises. Dany as Khalisi is a bit more active and self-directed in learning new things, to her credit.
May 30, 2011 at 12:46AM ESTAnd I'm glad that Jason Momoa has finally been given a decent role to play -- he was underused as Ronin Dex on Stargate Atlantis, even if his stint on that show now seems like a long dress rehearsal for Khal Drogo.
ps -- yes he IS a hunk, but unless the new Conan film has a script that's a damn sight better than its predecessors, much as I like Jason Momoa I won't be spending my hard-earned cash on the new Conan film (instead, I'll be using it to pay my cable bill so I can keep getting HBO!).
webdiva pps -- I wouldn't go so far as to call Khal Drogo a feminist -- clearly, he keeps female slaves, and the way he consummated his marriage to Danaerys wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. It's Dany who has been instrumental in teaching him how to treat her with respect. He's just been remarkably amenable to being taught by her (perhaps because he's experienced the benefits in the bedroom; whatever). But feminist?? Oh, HELL no -- he's just less rude in some ways than his counterparts in Westeros.
May 30, 2011 at 10:56AM ESTEric Yes, Drogo is a feminist--that's why one of the things he stated to do in his speech was rape all the women of Westeros.
May 30, 2011 at 1:25PM ESTklxdg that's a ridiculous suggestion for reasons mentions by other commentators. probably the only reason you could suggest such a thing is that the entire show is set in such a brutally patriarchal society.
May 31, 2011 at 12:39AM ESTthe only feminist character on the show, in a horribly sexist world, is arya.
Erin I agree -- well, not that he's a feminist or renaissance man (I get your point, but I think calling him those is going a bit too far) -- but I am absolutely loving both Jason Momoa's performance and the relationship between Drogo and Dany.
May 31, 2011 at 6:09PM ESTMomoa is obviously a good physical match for the character, but I was beyond impressed at his performance of the speech in which he vows to conquer Westeros. He completely sold it, and that couldn't have been easy -- such an over-the-top speech, and in another language, too.
nic919
May 29, 2011 at 10:22PM EST Reply to CommentCharles Dance made a brief appearance a few episodes ago, but this was really the first real scene we got of him showing his character. There is definitely an interesting father-son dynamic there and I almost felt bad for Jaime.
Stephen Did he? I don't recall any scene in which Tywin could have been present.
May 29, 2011 at 10:35PM ESTnic919 There was a brief scene where he was talking about money. I forget which episode but that is when I knew that Charles Dance was playing Tywin.
May 29, 2011 at 10:40PM EST
Yes, what episode?
May 29, 2011 at 10:56PM ESTScott Tywin has never made an appearance until Ep 7. Maybe you saw one of the many preview or Making Of clips before the show even aired, and are confusing said scene for a past episode.
May 29, 2011 at 11:04PM ESTjdstorm Poor Jamie... Half Sawyer, Half Ben Linus Completely LOST in westeros.
May 30, 2011 at 4:28AM ESTBut seriously the actor who plays Jamie and Josh Holloway look eerily similar
Dan Kramer
May 29, 2011 at 10:34PM EST Reply to CommentI let my artichoke overcook so as not to lose a second of this gripping episode.
James
May 29, 2011 at 10:44PM EST Reply to CommentIncase you didn't get it the first 10 times people told you, it was actually a stag not a boar.
jake
May 29, 2011 at 10:57PM EST Reply to Commentwhat is crazy about that stag, is that it looked like the real deal, and not a fake animal. Gratz to props or the stag if it was real
webdiva I'm guessing that Charles Dance may have been to a hunt or two in his lifetime and probably knows how to field-dress a stag. Also, it wouldn't be all that hard for them to have acquired an already-dead deer in Ireland, 'cause it sure looked real to me, too. Besides, deer are in no danger of becoming extinct in most places -- if anything, they're overpopulated because their natural predators have shrunk in population, in which case the deer herd needs to be thinned for its own survival (I know that sounds strange, but 'tis true). That may be the case where the series is being filmed.
May 30, 2011 at 12:08AM EST
It was a real deer - apparently several real deer.
May 30, 2011 at 8:47PM ESTwww.youtube.com/watch?v=FfOB2Mh2d0s
No spoilers, I promise - it's an HBO Inside the Episode clip.
May 29, 2011 at 10:59PM EST Reply to CommentVery nice work by Jason Momoa tonight. He really sold that rant. And Dogo's reaction showed one thing Ned WAS right about - don't kick a sleeping Khol.
Dallasbruin
May 29, 2011 at 11:00PM EST Reply to CommentDo people not read ANY posts before posting themselves? We're gonna have 2 pages full of "it wasn't a pig, it was a stag" posts! The very first comment is all the clarification needed. Good lord it's annoying reading the same sentence 30 times in a row! I do need to add one thing though Alan, wake up dude, it was a stag!!!
Yep One thing to know is people on the internet REALLY like to show off minor knowledge! I always like reading comment threads because you can see the same points made over and over since no one reads what others wrote.
May 30, 2011 at 1:38AM ESTmely If you check the timestamps, you'll see practically all the comments correcting that were made simultaneously. This is a popular site, lots of people read it and comment so some overlap is going to happen. (That's what happened to me, if you look upthread you can see me making a practically identical speculation because someone was quicker to hit 'post'. ;))
May 30, 2011 at 3:33AM EST
May 29, 2011 at 11:05PM EST Reply to CommentThis episode was so good. I love this series so much I'm reading the books now too. Of course I'm only on book one and much farther behind then the series on HBO. This episode was really good, but I'm afraid Ned Stark is too "good". I have a feeling he won't survive into the next season... which is such a shame because I LOVE SEAN BEAN in this role. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it to season two...
webdiva I'm rather thinking that a lot of heads are about to roll, and only those with a touch of ruthlessness -- or those well out of reach, like the men on the Wall -- will survive the first round of slaughter. Alan is right: Ned is waaay out of his depth because he wasn't paying attention and wasn't used to planning for betrayal. Alas, I suspect his will be one of the earliest heads to roll, and we will lose that counterpoint to the barbarity and raw guile we're about to see unleashed.
May 30, 2011 at 12:17AM ESTnic919 As much as I love Ned Stark and Sean Bean, I am not even sure how he can make it out alive of the end of next episode much less the season. I suspect that honour won't help him out very much with all the treachery in King's Landing.
May 30, 2011 at 12:38AM EST
Yeah I agree with NIC919,in fact I'm more worried about what will happen to Ned's family after he eventually dies. Did the girls already leave for Winterfell? Or did Ned just tell them that they were leaving?
May 30, 2011 at 10:38AM ESTwebdiva They haven't left yet, and Sansa's dragging it out as much as she can -- there's the danger. Stark should have shipped them safely off with his most trusted men **before** he went to the brothel. Too little, too late, and brother Rob is too far away to help. I know Arya has at least one possible ally (her fencing master?), but what allies has Sansa made? Indeed, who *hasn't* she alienated? always be nice to the hired help: they know things you don't (behind the scenes) and might just be the ones you're forced to rely on when you're in a fix. Sansa hasn't learned that, to her peril. Arya might be able to handle herself just long enough to sneak away, but Sansa???? Good bloody luck.
May 30, 2011 at 11:05AM ESTGuesser
May 29, 2011 at 11:08PM EST Reply to CommentAssuming that the rest of the show plays out as well as this episode did, I'm especially curious to see where GoT will rank on the year-end top-10 list. On the F&I podcast some time ago it was implied that "Breaking Bad" would be penciled in as top dog until proven otherwise, so I'll be curious if GoT has a shot at unseating that show.
Unless Breaking Bad has a drop in quality(which isn't very likely) then I would say it doesn't have a huge chance. Although if I recall, Alan actually said Parks and Rec could be his number 1, so you never know.
May 29, 2011 at 11:20PM ESTSareeta
May 29, 2011 at 11:13PM EST Reply to CommentEven though I knew how the episode was going to end, I was on the edge of my seat for the whole episode and right there with everyone whose mouth dropped when Littlefinger double crossed Ned. It seems painfully obvious that a piece of paper isn't going to save Ned when he's dealing with the Lannisters, but you just don't expect the Queen to dismiss it so quickly and publicly.
Love Khal Drogo in this episode. And Dany continues to impress.
Tywin skinning the stag was pretty gruesome. I've never skinned an animal (and hope I never have to) but I was surprised how...clean it was (not very much blood). Is that normal?
Keith Yes, it is. You would normally hang the carcass -- perhaps from a tree -- with its throat cut; that allows almost all of the blood to drain out before you gut and skin it. (I was never a hunter myself, but grew up in a family of deer hunters.)
May 29, 2011 at 11:37PM ESTmloar
May 29, 2011 at 11:14PM EST Reply to CommentI have read all of the books. I am very happy about the story being kept true to the books.
Apple
May 29, 2011 at 11:24PM EST Reply to CommentMy only complaint was there was no Peter Dinklage in this eppe, and oh em gee please let Jason Moma have more air time he is the "Vampire Eric" if you will of 2011.
May 29, 2011 at 11:31PM EST Reply to CommentI can't believe the sex and nudity during Littlefinger's speech is that bothersome to people already watching a network know for sex and nudity. That scene was no worse than Al Swearengen's monologue while receiving a **** job from Trixie the whore in Deadwood's first season.
Stephen I personally don't have a problem with it on its own, but it was too long and drawn-out, and if you want to have your character give an important monologue, you don';t want to distract your audience during it by having 2 naked women touching each other and making noise.
May 30, 2011 at 12:03AM ESTWaltEagle In fairness, there was nothing distracting about the Al BJ scenes because there was no nudity; this isn't really a comparable thing. Also, as a Deadwood fanboy I have to point out that it wasn't Trixie, but Dolly. That said, I loved the Littlefinger scene by its own merits, the sex served a very character-based purpose.
May 30, 2011 at 12:06AM ESTFran Yes, Dolly, who looked like some 15-year-old girl from the neighborhood you'd hire to babysit your kids on date night. That, and knowing she was basically replacing a head in a box for Al made the whole thing very sad. Really hard to interpret what was going on in that scene as gratuitous titillation. Some GoT scenes, on the other hand....
May 30, 2011 at 1:48AM ESTxbrooklyngrrl It wasn't 'bothersome', it was cheap and poorly done. I'm no prude, but Littlefinger giving a poorly drawn speech about love and disappointment while, on his orders, Roz is vigorously fingering the other woman's butt, this show is better than that. At least she wiped her hands on a rag afterwards.
May 30, 2011 at 2:19AM ESTI liked all the sex and orgies on Rome, it was a show about a debauched time, and it rang true for the characters; this scene came from outer porn space.
Whatever. It's awfully hypocritical of people to slam the sex and nudity on GoT, when it's on every show on HBO (minus Big Love) and has been forever. Littlefinger is a whore master, just like Al, a lot of the business they conduct is in the presence of sex. Nudity or not, they're the same in my mind. Sure, it wasn't necessary. He could have given that speech to Renly, or even a fully clothes Roz, but I wouldn't call it gratuitous simply because teach whores to whore properly is part of his job, apparently. If they wanted to show us that, it's better that they combined it with a monologue. They could have just shown him watching and barking orders to them. But maybe I'm just biased because Roz is so hot.
May 30, 2011 at 3:08AM ESTFran I'm not slamming the sex and nudity. I'm slamming how they're used sometimes. There is a difference, truly.
May 30, 2011 at 5:47AM ESTAnd it's okay if you're biased, because Ros *is* hot.
Hwat It doesn't matter what it is known for, bad is bad. (And i thankfully haven't seen that scene in Deadwoody)
May 30, 2011 at 5:55PM ESTswearin
May 30, 2011 at 12:04AM EST Reply to CommentI think Littlefinger was actually, genuinely in Ned's corner until halfway through this episode, when Ned put his foot down to Littlefinger about making Stannis the next king. At that point, Littlefinger gave up on what he considered a "failed investment". Here's what I mean:
The one thing you have to understand, and reiterated in the scene where he divulged his personal history, is that Littlefinger plays a long game. He showed Ned the ropes of life in the capital, helped him in his duties and plans, and even shrugged off Ned's punch when he found Catelyn in the brothel, all because he wanted Ned as an ally. I think a man as shrewd as Littlefinger could see that for a long while, the strongest men - the Alpha male, soldier types - had been running the Seven Kingdoms. Robert's coup was made by a few simple men with an iron will and armies to back it up. In Ned, Littlefinger saw someone who was strong enough to keep everyone in line as a ruler, yet naieve enough to be manipulated.
Yet in that scene after Ned sent the letter to Stannis, when Littlefinger suggested that as Regent he could take the throne for himself, Ned refused. And he refused to shed blood in the castle and rout the Lannisters, knowing full well that Joffrey wasn't a true heir. At this point, I think Littlefinger saw how much independence and honor Ned really had, and realized he would never make the perfect ally/pawn Littlefinger had hoped he would be.
So what was he to do? When Ned refused to play ball, Littlefinger remembered that this was the man who stole the love of his life away from him. The grudge he held against Ned and the He-Man type he represented was still there, and though he may have been able to put it aside to get what he wanted, he gave in to it when Ned wouldn't get his hands dirty. So he made good on his threats about being untrustworthy, and allied with the Lannisters - a wealthy family that wouldn't shake up the status quo that businesses like Littlefinger's relied on.
A similar situation occured to Jorah as well, when he decided to throw his lot in with the Dothraki. He had his pardon, sure, but what would he be returning home to? He had no money, no lands, no titles, he would only have his life and with Robert & Ned in charge, who knew how long he would even have that. But like Littlefinger, Jorah probably saw in Dany a better deal to make; returning to Westeros as a beloved ally to a conquering army would be far better, as would the rewards he would be given if Dany took the throne.
yup -- agree with littlefinger and ned.
May 30, 2011 at 12:32AM ESTi love how littlefinger was condescendingly trying to convince ned to agree to his scheme, but ned's sense of honor always gets in the way...
ned says, "make peace with my enemies?"
littlefinger replies" yes, you make peace with your enemies. thats why its called 'making peace'".
you can sense how he's trying to stifle an eye-roll!
I agree with you up until the point that you say Littlefinger decided to let his personal feelings enter the bargain. You are right that he's all about the long game now. I don't think he'd throw it all away in a fit of ego over losing Catelyn to the Starks.
May 30, 2011 at 12:51AM ESTDMW I don't think we're done with Littlefinger's betrayals. It seems perfectly within his character to align with the Queen to put Ned in a tough position, but then do some scheming to get him safely out of the castle and back to Winterfell to grow up a bit more.
May 30, 2011 at 8:17AM ESTGus Right you are.
May 30, 2011 at 12:54PM ESTLittlefinger gave up on Ned and you notice it on his face the moment he says:
"So it is to be Stannis and war."
webdiva @Gabby -- Agree about the eye-roll and about the snark: Baelish just couldn't resist tweaking Ned's nose even as he was trying to persuade him. It wasn't so much about educating Ned as it was embarrassing/provoking him into doing what Baelish wanted.
May 30, 2011 at 1:31PM EST@Matt -- well of COURSE it was about his ego -- Littlefinger's whole ethos of manipulation is about his ego: he wants to show all those lords and vassals who achieved more power and respectability than he has just how much smarter he is before he tires of them or finds them no longer useful and eliminates them (or arranges for someone else to eliminate them). This is all about him being the despised whoremaster and moneylender, being useful to them no matter how unpalatable they find either of his professions and thus making them owe him in some way. He takes great pleasure in that because he fancies himself wronged and has that streak of insecurity that most men have at some point. He still wants Catelyn -- not because he thinks she will ever love him (her disgust at being dragged into his whorehouse proved that) but because he wants to use her and make her as well as Ned pay for the previous insult. oh yeah, he's in it for the long game, but the entire long game for him is about vindicating himself in his own eyes and proving himself so much smarter, so much better than the rest, and the 'proff' to him is in his ability to use them without their catching on soon enough.
@DMW -- We are most certainly NOT done with Baelish's betrayals -- he betrays as easily and regularly as breathing -- if only because he doesn't yet have 'everything,' which, as he told Roz, is what he wants. He fancies himself a Machiavelli, except that while he's cynical enough and conniving enough, he's not really smart enough. If he were, he wouldn't be so quick to assume his own success. First rule of manipulation: never believe your own PR; the moment you do, it's the kiss of death (because it means you have a fatal blind spot). That ego of his will bite his ass someday when he's least expecting it. Right now, he believes he's considered every eventuality and assumes he's thinking 17 moves ahead of everyone else. But it's still about ego as well as power (why would you want that much power if you didn't have an out-of-whack ego?): remember that conversation between Petyr and Varys when they were vying about who saw whom first? That was all about bragging rights. Each thought he was cleverer than the other; neither came away convinced otherwise -- any setback was assumed to be temporary. They don't bother to acknowledge the other's skill except as a momentary distraction in verbal sparring. I thought I'd *gag* on all the ego and testosterone in that exchange!
@Swearin -- Baelish was **never** in Ned's corner or anyone else's but his own. He was merely taking an opportunity to use Ned by offering some free information that didn't cost him anything and building up some fake good will with Ned that he, Petyr, could use on a future occasion to his own ends. And that's exactly what he did: when he told Ned that the 'gold guard' would follow whoever paid them, Ned should have taken it to mean that they'd follow Baelish, not Ned, because Baelish was supplying the funds -- and realized that Baelish could turn on a dime against him whenever it suited him. At that point, Ned should have pretended to go along with Baelish and immediately removed himself and his daughters from the city and gone to Robert's eldest brother (the legitimate heir) with Robert's decree, if not simply directly home to Winterfell. But no: Ned wasn't trained to deal with more than one level of treachery at a time and thought he knew what Baelish was doing, despite all the warnings.
As for Jorah Mormont, he had allied himself with Khal Drogo long before Danaerys got there for precisely the reasons you mentioned -- no land, no money, no title, no credibility back home -- and his pardon didn't really change any of that, especially when it was already clear that war would soon break out. Besides, being a knight, he may have felt protective of the young Dany when she first got there, but now she also has his esteem for the way she's handled herself. Didn't you notice how much admiration he had for her when Drogo paraded her around the tent after she'd forced herself to choke down that raw heart when it looked like she might upchuck it all at the last moment? Jorah's remark, lost on the already departed Viserys, was: 'today, she is truly a queen.' Boy, the look on his face ... yeah, that was real admiration at what she'd accomplished. And it's clearly occurred to him that as he knows a whole lot more about Westeros than either the Khal or Dany, he'd be a valuable advisor to her once the horse lord committed his horde to war with Westeros. Jorah has everything to gain and nothing to lose by staying with the Khalinate. He doesn't have to be eyeing her personally for that to be the case (and anyway, do you really think the rest of the horde, given how much they adore her right now, would let him near her while the Khal was alive?? Think again!). So: Jorah Mormont stays put, for now. Simple.
Yep I think you're wrong about Jorah. If he was so aligned with them from the beginning he wouldn't have been spying on them for Westeros. It was BECAUSE of Jorah that the assassination was even attempted. That's why he got his pardon. I think in the back of his mind he always figured when he got his pardon he'd leave...but then changed his mind when the reality was in front of him.
May 30, 2011 at 4:13PM ESTBut Jorah would like to get with her...in this episode when Drogo kissed her, they went right to a reaction shot of Jorah, and it's clear as day.
webdiva Hmmmm, I'll have to go back and rewatch that scene. Still, I never said Jorah wasn't keeping all his options open. In fact, I think that's precisely what's going on: he allied himself with the Khalinate for perfectly sound reasons -- before Dany arrived -- that weren't in any way invalidated by the pardon but left other possibilities open by feeding information to Varys (perhaps even him among others). Mormont lost nothing by doing that. As for any surface attraction to Dany, well GEEZ, take a look at her! What guy wouldn't have at least a surface attraction? That doesn't mean a smart man would do anything about it other than try to keep on her good side, especially when one knows just how unforgiving the horse lord can be. Better to simply remain an ally, with war approaching, and wait to see how things play out. He really doesn't have to think about her beyond that, and the likelihood of the horde letting him near her, even if by some chance Drogo dies in battle, is next to nil given the way they worship her now. And I just don't see her falling for him in anyway, so nuts to that. She's getting smarter by the minute, and she'll remember when anyone else tries to use her.
May 30, 2011 at 5:12PM EST
Okay, I wasn't clear on what I meant. I meant that he didn't just decide in the heat of the moment to betray Ned. When I say heat of the moment, I mean he didn't get angry and decide, "Screw Ned Stark." He's been playing the long game for years now, and he obviously has many of his moves planned out in advance. It might have been mildly surprising that Ned refused his offer, but I'm certain he had planned for it in advance. Yes, his ego is what is driving all this. I agree with you on that but I still disagree that it's a momentary "I hate you, Ned Stark" impulse that makes him betray Ned. It's calculated.
June 2, 2011 at 8:25AM ESTWaltEagle
May 30, 2011 at 12:18AM EST Reply to CommentI loved the episode, and kudos to Mark Addy for what will surely be one of the first season's finest performances (I'm thinking top five). As always, the writers really know when and how to end an episode. It may be my favourite to date, despite not featuring perhaps my two favourite characters, Tyrion and Arya (although Littlefinger may have tied them by now). On that note, having so many memorable characters after just seven episodes is quite a feat. Only three characters (Ned, Cersei, Robert) have been in every episode thus far, but it's hard to even notice the absence of a favourite with the compelling nature of every subplot.
Max
May 30, 2011 at 12:24AM EST Reply to CommentSorry if it's been mentioned before but, has anyone else noticed that this 'sprawling' and 'epic' show largely takes place in small rooms and tents? That's getting to be a little annoying. Other than that, good episode. I thought the random chick porn was a little odd and terribly gratuitous. I'm not one to complain about nudity and sex, but at least let it serve some purpose. This just seemed like it was thrown in to satisfy a quota. Not looking forward to the last episodes. I know where this is going and I'm hoping they change a few things.
T Thanks for spoiling.
May 30, 2011 at 3:17PM EST- 1
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