Review: 'Game of Thrones' - 'The Night Lands': Make love, not war
Theon goes home, Tyrion makes a move and Arya makes a friend
Patrick Malahide as Balon Greyjoy in "Game of Thrones."
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A review of tonight's "Game of Thrones" coming up just as soon as I've got armor on...
"Iron or gold?" -Balon Greyjoy
"Game of Thrones" episodes aren't specifically designed to feature thematically linked stories the way, say, "Mad Men" episodes are. There's a whole lot of plot to get through, and most of the time it's about working through it in the order George R.R. Martin did, and occasionally with how Benioff & Weiss feel those stories play better on television. Still, because so many characters are scrambling for power, and dealing with the benefits and liabilities that come with their blood, there tend to be thematic commonalities every week, even with all that plot to churn.
This week, our linked pair are Tyrion Lannister and Theon Greyjoy, who have both found themselves as strangers in lands that shouldn't be quite so strange.
Tyrion is a Lannister, son of the wealthiest family in Westeros, and he should be used to the corridors of power by now. But his size and the manner of his birth means he's been treated as an inconvenience — or, as Cersei coldly puts it, the biggest joke in the world — all his life, left to amuse himself and is only in this position because Jaime's being held prisoner by Robb Stark's forces. Tyrion is both more clever and ruthless than Ned Stark was, and he's already made his first major power play by banishing Janos Slynt to the Night's Watch so he can install Bronn as commander of the City Watch. But just because he's smart enough to play the game at such a high level as a rookie doesn't mean it's one he's especially comfortable with. The slaughter of babies is something he doesn't want to accept, where Bronn would do it for the right price, and where Cersei understands the value of it even though it disgusts her to know her son ordered it. Tyrion's doing well so far, but he has Varys gathering intelligence to use against him and he has his sister eager to see him gone. Does he have the stomach to do what needs to be done to stay in the position his father granted him?
Theon, meanwhile, has spent much of his life living among Starks, and acting so much a brother to them that I was puzzled to realize he wasn't a part of the family. He returns to the Iron Islands and the Pyke — my favorite design of all the new locations from the early stretch of the season — and doesn't even recognize his sister Yara before trying to cop a feel. (And it's a fine introduction to Yara that this is her idea of a joke.) His father — who has clearly modeled his life on the "grey" part of the last name — has nothing but disdain for him, and even when Theon presents him a way to get his crown back, Balon sneers and suggests a plan where he pays "the iron price," apparently attacking Robb's forces rather than Tywin's.
We've met many nasty parents so far in this series, but few have been as instantly chilling and disagreeable as Balon. And his irritable, self-righteous manner performs the useful trick of bringing Theon — a relatively minor figure in the first season whose backstory(*) we only got hints of — to full, somewhat sympathetic life. He's cocky as all get out, but like Jon Snow, he's spent much of his life trapped between two worlds, never really belonging in either. He thinks he's making a triumphant return to the Pyke, but he's no more in command there than he was in Winterfell.
(*) I had to laugh at the rapid transition from the Theon sexposition scene on the boat — complete with a line like "They say hard places breed hard men, and hard men rule the world" that would have set Michael Scott's "That's what she said!" impulses to maximum — to the double-peephole scene at Littlefinger's brothel. I don't know if the combination was intentional — Benioff and Weiss perhaps responding to the sexposition complaints by calling us all out as voyeurs — but I found the boom-boom-boom nature of that sequence hysterical.
Speaking of Jon Snow, he's one of several other characters struggling to make sense of new terrain, albeit terrain that feels more understandably foreign to them. He's north of the wall, warned by Commander Mormont to leave Craster and his women alone, but he can't resist following the old creep out into the night to see what's happening to the baby. And before he can try to save it from that monstrous-looking shadow, Craster cold cocks him from behind. Not a good start to his apprenticeship under Mormont.
Arya continues her journeys with Yoren and his Night's Watch recruits, a motley crew consisting of scared and stupid boys, unsettling criminals, and Gendry, who immediately sees through her boy disguise. (Setting up one of the episode's lighter moments, when he starts calling her "milday.")
Dany and her pitiful band continue starving to death in the Red Waste, and her most trusted remaining soldier returns from his scouting mission as just a severed head. (And he returns on a horse that appears at first like a mirage in the distance, like the famous entrance of Omar Sharif in "Lawrence of Arabia.")
Even Davos is struggling with new territory, even as he's physically still on his home turf. The Lord of Light, and the way so many in Dragonstone — particularly Davos' son and Stannis — have dedicated their lives to this new god and its red-headed priestess isn't something that sits well with him. He insists that the only god he needs is Stannis Baratheon, but if Davos' god keeps answering to another god — and trying to father a baby through some holy sex with Melisandre on his war room table — will Davos' devotion remain so strong?
Very good episode, if maybe a notch below the premiere. Overall, though, the combination of Benioff, Weiss and director Alan Taylor tends to mean very good things for this show.
Some other thoughts:
* Yoren, by the way? Very tough. Brings a dagger to a swordfight and wins.
* We know all about the supernatural doings up north of Castle Black, but Cersei and her cronies don't, which leads them to laugh off Mormont's reports of them. I'm predicting no comeuppance whatsoever for that cocky attitude!
* Hi, I'm 12, and therefore got a kick out of the whole "serious discussion" about farting among the Night's Watch recruits. And on a more mature note, that's a good example of a fantasy show both not taking itself too seriously and understanding what minor, low-caste characters in a show like this might talk about.
* Good scene with Littlefinger threatening Ros to get back to work, all by implication. If, as Cersei taught him last week, power is power, then he understands how to exercise his power over his stable of ladies.
* Was Salladhor Saan, the pirate recruited by Davos to help with the assault on King's Landing, the first notable character on this show played by a black actor?
It's time once again for the requisite spoiler warning. Once again, let me remind you that we are here to discuss the show AS A TV SHOW, and not just as an endless series of compare/contrasts with the books. If you want to bring up events from the books that have already been depicted on the show, that's fine to a degree, but anything - plot, backstory, motivation, what have you - that has yet to be revealed on the show itself is absolutely off-limits. (The motivation one turned out to be the hardest one for people to resist last season, as it turns out. If they don't say it, or it's not clear from their actions, I don't want any psychoanalysis that's only possible if you've read their internal monologue in "A Clash of Kings.") Any comment containing anything I find even remotely questionable will be deleted. Period.
UPDATE: People again seem to be having a surprising amount of difficulty with the above restrictions, so in an attempt to avoid shutting down comments altogether, I've set up a discussion topic on our message boards for people to talk about all matters book-related with regards to this episode to their heart's content. Please use it, and this should be a workable arrangement going forward, or else these will be reviews published without any comment section at all.
What did everybody else think?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 207 CommentsJim
April 8, 2012 at 10:07PM EST Reply to CommentI swear to God that episode was only 15 minutes long. I was stunned when the credits came up and the clock read 9:55.
I like everything I see, but I am still concerned this show just has too many storylines to juggle in a realtively short season of telelvision.
You're not the only one. When those credits cut in, I had the same reaction as last week: "What? No! There's still five more scenes! Right?"
April 9, 2012 at 1:33AM ESTKen I agree this is a serious problem . Seems like we only get 5 minutes with each character each episode they are jumping around so much.
April 9, 2012 at 2:22AM ESTosiskars well there is one good reason why it seems that way. Because they are trying to fit 1200page(2books) into 10 episodes.. Why? of course it will seem a bit chaotic and messy.. Unless , I start to notice that the writers are slowly distancing themselves from the books, and they will cut a lot out and merge a lot of other things together, and everything gonna happen much sooner...
April 9, 2012 at 8:57PM ESTdarthzombie OSISKARS what you are saying is wrong. They aren't condescing 1200 pages (2 books) into 10 episodes. They covered the first book (650 pg hardcover or 800 paperback) in the first season 10 episodes and covered it all basically and even brought some stuff in earlier to help speed along the beginning of this season i.e. having Jon Snow march out beyond the wall in the first season finale instead of having it happen in his second chapter of ACoK. And they will be adapting the second book (700 pg hardcover or 950 pg paperback) into the second season. The reason it jumps around alot is the nature of the multiple POV chapters that span an ever-expanding world that only grows from here. Which is quite different then how TV usually works where you follow a main character and a few supporting or you have an ensemble cast in a central location while this has ensemble cast that is spread and each story can be intricate enough to warrant being a main character. This is very ambitious storytelling for a tv medium.
April 10, 2012 at 5:02PM ESTSo really right now they are doing 1350 pages from hardcover into 20 episodes of tv or 1750 pages of paperback into 20 episodes...
Kevin
April 8, 2012 at 10:10PM EST Reply to CommentWith the exposition of so many different parts of Westeros, the plot is moving awfully slowly. I'd rather they focus on fewer characters per episode...
John You mean like they did, leaving Bran, Catelyn, and Sansa with a week off?
April 9, 2012 at 12:48AM ESTmyshkingfh And no Rob Stark this week at all, right?
April 9, 2012 at 10:24AM ESTeric_balsam
April 8, 2012 at 10:10PM EST Reply to CommentThe scene with Theon and the "salt-wife" was very good. It also happened to be one of my favorite scenes from the book, Theon makes her give him a BJ, so he can shut her up.
Greg Grant Ohhhhhhh, okay, so she was intentionally not attractive. I was momentarily baffled by why we were given bad-nudity by HBO, but figured they ran out of budget or something. Now that somewhat makes sense.
April 9, 2012 at 3:01AM ESTGreg Grant
April 8, 2012 at 10:12PM EST Reply to CommentDid not really notice it last week, but even without having sex on it, King Stannis has an awesome table. And loved the Starz-like pointless sex quota. It was actually not that pointless.
I have a joke with my friends, the over/under is 5.5 boobs per episode. This episode had many more.
April 8, 2012 at 10:15PM ESTJP And oddly enough, the warnings at the beginning of the show did not include "Nudity." My reaction, even without seeing the show, was "yeah right."
April 8, 2012 at 10:32PM ESTGreg Grant JP, I think at this point, they just assume that all watching will know there will be nudity. It's like a pointless drum solo at a rock concert. If you're there, you know it'll happen.
April 9, 2012 at 3:02AM ESTchuchundra Yeah, but they put the violence warning up. Anyone think there will ever be an episode of GOT without violence?
April 9, 2012 at 9:09AM ESTAdebisi I almost got angry when I saw no SSC on N in the warnings...HBO quickly showed us how serious they were about that. Salty salt wife...very salty. Salt the snail, Theon!
April 9, 2012 at 9:16AM ESTLisa I didn't find the sex scenes offensive or anything, but every one of them made me cringe in sympathy for the woman. Getting rammed fast and dry on a 3D topographical map of a mountain range? No thanks!
April 9, 2012 at 1:55PM ESTLisa Oh, also, Stannis gets totally turned on hearing Melisandre talk about stillborns and miscarriages. That made me laugh.
April 9, 2012 at 1:56PM ESTPainful Every time I see one of these sex scenes I cringe -- for the guy too. I don't mean to get too detailed, but is sex like that even possible? Can you really just ______ like that without any _____?
April 10, 2012 at 9:35AM ESTjason but the drum solo is so the rest of the band can go backstage, do some drugs and chill for a bit..maybe even bang a few chicks on 3d topographical tables :)
April 10, 2012 at 6:11PM ESTTrilby I continue to find the sex jarring, out of place, and usually repulsive, but then I'm a woman.
April 11, 2012 at 1:04PM ESTrobb's wife agreed with trilby, all the sex is quite repulsive these days, i miss the loving days of dany and drogo in the tent, sigh...
April 18, 2012 at 11:32AM ESTeric_balsam
April 8, 2012 at 10:14PM EST Reply to CommentWhile I thought this episode was very good, I can see where it could be confusing, as they covered quite a lot of characters in this particular episode.
Also, there weren't really any action scenes in this episode. These scenes are not necessary for this show to be good, but this episode was pretty empty of any bit of fighting.
the goat And yet Yoren and Bronn both managed to look like badasses.
April 9, 2012 at 5:04PM ESTLJA Honestly, I'm happy for a break from the fighting.
April 10, 2012 at 11:49AM ESTRB
April 8, 2012 at 10:15PM EST Reply to CommentDang, i was wrong. Thought this would start with: review coming up just as soon as I perfect my paper shredding. Anyway, good review.
osiskars :D , it should have started like that :D .. great quote , and one that comes from the writers of the show .
April 9, 2012 at 8:59PM ESTMike I thought it might be: review coming up just as soon as I enjoy some fish pie.
April 11, 2012 at 10:34AM ESTBen
April 8, 2012 at 10:17PM EST Reply to CommentThe only show that is on par with Breaking Bad for me right now. Peter Dinklage just eats up the screen.
And that shadow that Craster left his baby for was definitely a White Walker-there was a flash of blue eyes.
aegon
April 8, 2012 at 10:18PM EST Reply to CommentI think Salladhor Saan is the first character played by a black actor. But you can't really blame the show for the lack of diversity. Almost all of the characters are from Westeros and the people of Westeros aren't black.
I seem to think the world is set up similar to Earth, with what weve seen of westeros being north america, so like people from south westeros, if we meet them, would be latin. People from Danys area are middle eastern, and so on.
April 8, 2012 at 10:24PM ESTPirate Interestingly, the character of Saladhar Saan as described in the books is more or less European.
April 8, 2012 at 10:38PM ESTKarenX I dunno. It's all pretend, source material or not. The show producers could've included more racial diversity if they wanted to without any effect on the story, source material or not. The people of Westeros could certainly be black, foreign or not. There are lots of way to show foreignness besides skin color. It just wasn't a priority.
April 9, 2012 at 2:10AM ESTaegon Westeros is based to a large extent off of medieval Europe, which was not a particularly diverse place. I think it strains credibility to have the continent reflect the racial diversity of the modern world, which is the result of socioeconomic and technological factors that would not be in keeping with the medieval world. And I wasn't saying that they use skin color to represent foreignness. Rather that foreignness gives them an opportunity to use black actors without straining credibility.
April 9, 2012 at 6:13AM ESTJesse Westeros is mostly based on Europe.
April 9, 2012 at 10:35AM ESTMainland Westeros won't have much diversity, except for in Dorne, a desert region in the South which will likely have a more Mediterranean / Morrocan vibe.
When the story eventually spreads into Essos a bit more (the continent across the Narrow Sea), you'll see a bit more diversity.
KarenX It's based on medieval Europe, except for the part about the dragons, and the dire wolves, and the magic, and the seasons that last for years. All I'm saying is that if the producers of the show had wanted to make racial diversity a part of that world (or if the author had), they could have, without straining credibility at all. Also, medieval Europe was plenty diverse according to the racial definitions of the day. Just because we look back and see, maybe, a unifying whiteness, doesn't mean they did.
April 9, 2012 at 12:40PM ESTIt's all pretend and could have been diverse if they'd wanted to be without being unfaithful to the book, and no one would have been confused. It just wasn't a priority.
afartherroom
April 10, 2012 at 2:18AM ESTThe show-runners seem to have made the decision to cast white folk for the northern Westerosi characters, but to use multi-ethnic casting for the natives of Essos (the other continent, where Dany is and where Salladhor Saan comes from). They could have been more diverse had they chosen. Or, they could have been less so (in the books, Saan is from Lys, whose people are described as fair and blonde-haired). They made the decision they made. I might have been happier with more diverse casting, but it is what it is.
That said, I did cringe a bit when Salladhor started going on about how he wanted to "fuck the blonde queen." Given how few black actors have been cast in this show, it was just...oh, rather unfortunate, you know?
susie
April 8, 2012 at 10:19PM EST Reply to Comment"milday"
Gendry says "m'lady"....
aegon It was typo. Sheesh.
April 8, 2012 at 10:21PM ESTcwb Ah, Alan threw me as well.
April 9, 2012 at 10:42AM ESTBen Kabak Grammar nazis are the WORST
April 25, 2012 at 2:46PM ESTsusie
April 8, 2012 at 10:20PM EST Reply to Comment"milday"
Gendry calls her m'lady.
Prettok I'm pretty sure he called her "Milday"
April 8, 2012 at 11:30PM ESTcwb Pretty sure it was in fact "m'lady." in response she even told him not to call her that.
April 9, 2012 at 10:43AM ESTAndy
April 8, 2012 at 10:21PM EST Reply to CommentDecent episode. I usually don't complain about the sex on HBO shows, but it really feels like they're just throwing them in for the hell of it.
sheriff Toss in more sex,nudity, HBO. Keep up the ratings so we get thru all the seasons. Even brothels couldn't keep up Keadwood.
April 8, 2012 at 10:32PM ESTnodiggity There's plenty of sex in the books. They're not just adding it for nudity's sake.
April 8, 2012 at 10:52PM EST
Actually the scene with Theon and the captains fugly daughter with him explaining the ways of the Iron Islands and his expectations is straight out of the book some lines directly out of the text...
April 9, 2012 at 4:50AM ESTJesse Most of the sex in this episode was actually from the book, or referenced to in the book. The writers tend to convert "off-page references" into full scenes for the show, in order to give the non-POV characters a bit more screen time.
April 9, 2012 at 10:39AM ESTA good example is the season 1 scene between Jaime and Cersei, in which Jaime describes a "war for Cersei's cunt." That scene was actually shown as a flashback in the third book, as neither Jaime nor Cersei are POV characters in the first book.
kronicfatigue Jesse, can you please limit the references that border on spoilers (depending on the definition). You replied to Aegon's comment w/ a description of where the story is gonig to spread to, geographically. I groaned, but it wasn't THAT bad. Now you referenced what happens in the third book, and how that was shown in the first book.
April 9, 2012 at 11:25AM ESTI'm super anal about spoilers AND i'm reading the books, so I'm probably at the far end of the spectrum. But, I think Alan's rules seem to be against book references like this. Can you at least write the paragraphs in a way where I can tell a spoiler is coming. There was no way to tell the paragraph above was going to be a spoiler until it was too late.
Thanks!
osiskars SPOILER ALERT UP HERE ^
April 9, 2012 at 9:02PM EST@Jesse
Peter Jesse was referencing a scene from season ONE of the show that happened to be in book three. Since this is a discussion of the show, not sure how it can be a spoiler since it already happened on the show
April 11, 2012 at 10:20AM ESTkalin He said that Cersei and Jaime are POV characters in book three, which lets us know pretty clearly two characters who don't die during season 2.
April 11, 2012 at 10:24PM ESTbelinda
April 8, 2012 at 10:27PM EST Reply to Commentalan did you enjoy seeing Hannah Murray be in the show (as well as Joe Dempsie from S1)?
coz I totally did. They're obviously in completely different plot and location, and this is completely irrelevant to the show itself, but it would be such a kick to see genrdy and gilly have a scene.
bgt For those of you, like me, who were wondering why it might be a "kick" to see those two actors together...they both appeared in Skins (the original UK version, not the MTV one).
April 9, 2012 at 12:07AM ESTBehan She's thin, she's blond, and she says "Wow" a lot.
April 9, 2012 at 8:25AM ESTRyan
April 8, 2012 at 10:31PM EST Reply to CommentOne of my favorite scenes from this section of the book is when Asha/Yara leads Theon on during that ride back to Pyke. I definitely think they cast her well, and the actor who plays Theon did a great job with that scene and the reveal with Balon.
John Agreed, I actually got really excited that they did so well with it. And great casting on Yara/Asha. (also, because people will ask, name change bothers me nada, because British people saying Asha and Odha WILL get confusing for non-readers).
April 9, 2012 at 12:51AM ESTcwb Haven't read the books, but this scene and the performances struck me as well. Perverse good fun, even more so after the revelation.
April 9, 2012 at 10:47AM ESTMattH I understand why they changed it, but Osha is such a minor character (and rarely referred to by name), that it would have made a lot more sense to preemptively changed her name, IMO.
April 9, 2012 at 11:14AM ESTI thought they did a poor job casting Asha. Asha is supposed to be very lean and sinewy. Not necessariy super-model skinny, but toned. I hate to say it, but the actress is a little too "soft" for Asha. Not saying she's fat or anything because she's not, but she doesn't look like she's been sailing ships her whole life, that's for sure.
King I expected Asha to be a lot prettier than they casted her and was disappointed.
April 9, 2012 at 10:31PM ESTjan Interesting fact: the actor who plays Theon is Lily Allen's brother. If you haven't heard the song "Alfie," you should check it out just for laughs.
May 29, 2012 at 7:33PM ESTJP
April 8, 2012 at 10:33PM EST Reply to CommentTough season on babies so far.
Viginti
April 8, 2012 at 10:38PM EST Reply to CommentNo comment on the HBO GO gaffe that let most of us see the show a week early? It brought back fond memories of last years schizophrenic schedule for me. So from before the very get go this second episode seemed very reminiscent of last years show – more so than the season premiere did earlier in the week – but this is because of its controversies rather than its content. The other topic of internet interest that built up around the show last year was that of ‘Sexposition’ and the role played in the show by sex; while last weeks premiere was fairly prudent (nary a nipple in sight if I recall correctly) here the banter was again oft adorned by breasts and/or banging. Did I have a problem with it? No, not particularly, though neither did it bother me last year. It is certainly both noticeable and unneccessary – if you need something like nudity to keep you entertained during the speeches than I wonder why you are watching in the first place – but the latter fact ensures that it is easily ignored by those who aren’t on the look out for adult entertainment.
There were signs in this weeks episode though that told of how the show was changing in its second season; all that sex ten odd months ago is starting to bear fruit in the fully literal sense with nearly every story being based around a baby, past or present. Theon returns to his father no longer a child, Jon Snow is forced by honour into assisting in the birth of what will now be another bastard, Cersei taunts Tyrion about his own slide out the cervix and of course the mass infanticide that closed The North Remembers reverberates through King’s Landing’s many social spheres. The second departure is that this almost-theme – something that the show had mixed success with last season – is the only thing tying together the episodes many, many elements.
That and of course the constant vague vying for the upper hand in this obtuse ongoing conflict. Should we at this stage have any idea whatsoever about who is where and how well they are doing? Because I certainly don’t. Graphically including the armies in the opening credit sweep or introducing a Battlestar-esque soldier/casualty count would certainly be nice.I understand the budgetary reasons for banishing the actual battles to the background – even this expensive a show still has strict limitations – but simply showing the several armies as they march around after a fight isn’t exactly the most compelling approach; even if I do agree that the most compelling part of the conflict is the part that occurs behind the scenes. There need be a balance between the two because ironically enough giving too intense a focus to just one actually robs it of any importance: what’s a sword hitting a shield matter if you don’t know who wields either and what’s a pledge of allegiance or betrayal of banner when you don’t know where the battlefield is? This is actually the problem that I am currently having with the show as a whole.
I wrote of this week’s premiere that it wasn’t the cleanest or most concise beginning to a story but this episode has explained to me why I was wrong; you see, the show doesn’t actually have a story, not at this stage. The first season began with the guise of one: The King’s Hand had been killed over some secret truth and our heroic protagonist, Ned Stark, set out with the what in hand to discover the why and then punish the whom. We all saw how well that worked out for him. Pardon the pun (which is entirely intentional) but since his shocking departure the snake has been bereft of head and as such the show simply jerks and stutters where its death spasms take it.
There are so many different stories in play and so few of them connect each week in what could be construed as a meaningful way; See: the plight of the Dothraki whose sun-drenched destiny looks set to be teased out over the season a few seconds at a time. If there is a master plan at play here then it is the longest of cons, something which won’t likely play out properly for seasons to come; an admirable but perhaps not a perfect approach for us unread plebs.I argued for the merit of character centric episodes all through last year and that theoretical approach is another old thing that this episode revived.
Now that I’ve got all of that out of the way I will say this: Game of Thrones remains one of the best and most compelling shows currently on television and it has all but already confirmed its place in my Top Ten for the year, as ludicrous a statement as that is to make now. I criticise it so much though because it feels so close to being one of the best period, but falls short perhaps only because of its pacing. I do want to make it clear though that I’ve never felt the show was spinning its wheels, though thanks to their shared motion the to styles do look similar from afar. See the show instead is a series of spinning gears; each element simply sliding up against the next with one facet and from that connection there they share their motion, moving each other along. This is startling for us because these days our stories are told in the instant and obvious digital format, which differs greatly from what we get at Games.
Long, rambling story short it doesn’t much matter how well your threads all tie together when they are each as elegant as these ones: the dialogue, action, character, costumes and direction are all top class in the moment, it’s just that I’m greedy see and what I want is more; that is after all why I watched this episode early instead of waiting with the rest of the world.
aegon Aside from budgetary reasons, I think the show has mostly abstained from showing the war because there isn't that much war to show just yet. Renly has his 100,000 men, but they haven't come north yet. Stannis hasn't launched his invasion yet either. The only groups openly fighting right now are the Starks and the Lannisters, and we saw that last season.
April 8, 2012 at 11:09PM ESTJesse Recognize that they're adapting from a book and as such are someone tied to the author's original vision. They are generally keeping true to the pacing set forth in the book.
April 9, 2012 at 10:48AM ESTIf you want big battle scenes, you'll have to wait a bit longer. Most of what you'll see in the early half of this season will amount to skirmishes, as Robb and the Lannisters are currently the only ones duking it out, and in the books neither Robb nor Tywin are directly focused on (rather, you hear second hand accounts of Robb's victories, and he grows to become something of a folk hero, more myth than man).
darthzombie Jesse's comment should really be removed for spoiler reasons. Aegon said what needed to be said without saying what was going to happen while pointing out that the only direct conflict currently...
April 9, 2012 at 6:35PM ESTZach R.
April 8, 2012 at 10:39PM EST Reply to CommentChanging the name of Theon's sister still grates on me, but I'll get over it.
Another great episode that went by quickly, although the two sexposition scenes had by friends and I (and their wives/fiances) groaning.
KC There were several things that differed from the book, in my opinion, for no reason. Why did they change her name? There aren't any other characters with a name close to Asha. I don't see the point at all.
April 8, 2012 at 11:39PM EST. Osha the wildling. It's essentially the same.
April 8, 2012 at 11:46PM ESTSynnerman The wilding woman that is with Bran and Hodor is named Osha, which is why they made the change.
April 8, 2012 at 11:48PM ESTJohn With the actors' accents, Asha and Osha both sound like "Ahsha".
April 9, 2012 at 12:53AM ESTJames lol nerd alert
April 9, 2012 at 11:33AM ESTdebbie
April 8, 2012 at 10:40PM EST Reply to CommentI love this show and wish I had the patience to watch it in one fell swoop when DVDs come out,cuz there are so many storylines and Im anxious to see it all! Love seeing Tyrion manuever the halls of power, love the banter between Arya and Gendry...(and agree Yoren is BAD ASS!!)
I would like to have seen what Robb is up to and we have yet to see Renly.
I could have done without the Littlefinger whorehouse bit, tho.
jason I am new to the show. I just watched 12 episodes in 4 days and have two young kids at home as a stay at home dad. I had some late nights but well worth it. It's amazing and can see your point. Things are very fresh in my head
April 10, 2012 at 6:18PM ESTOmagus
April 8, 2012 at 10:47PM EST Reply to CommentWe finally got to see Ghost again. His (re) introduction wasn't quite as impressive as Grey Wind's was last week but I'm always happy to see more direwolves.
osiskars Yes, in this season they actually look really decent , and good quality CGI !
April 9, 2012 at 9:04PM ESTNaeem
April 8, 2012 at 10:48PM EST Reply to CommentI'm not usually too anal about the show deviating from the source, I don't care that Robert's short or Ghost barks, but to completely alter a character the way Stannis was by having an affair is almost unforgivable. Stannis is the only man in Westeros to whom honor is more important to than Ned Stark.
nm Stannis/Melisandre getting together is very heavily implied.
April 8, 2012 at 10:54PM ESTAndrew It's HEAVILY implied by the book that Stannis and Melisandre were having sex. Like, Monty Python kind of nudge nudge wink wink say no more implied. Hell, I think she tells Davos outright.
April 8, 2012 at 10:55PM ESTNaeem Not denying it's possible I missed the implication in the book. If so, then my mistake.
April 8, 2012 at 10:58PM ESTaegon Did you have this same reaction when the show depicted Renly and Loras's affair?
April 8, 2012 at 11:17PM ESTNaeem Nah, I got the Renly/Loras thing. Clearly must have missed the Stannis/Mellisendre affair. Oh well, live and learn.
April 8, 2012 at 11:21PM ESTadama1843 Agree with Andrew. HEAVILY implied. We just didn't read about it.
April 8, 2012 at 11:29PM ESTKC Agree about it being implied, but why the implication, when Martin goes into much detail describing other sex acts...there must be a reason?
April 8, 2012 at 11:41PM ESTJack Sparrow It's definitely implicit in the book that Stannis and Melisandre had carnal knowledge of each other, but it was left to the readers' imaginations how it happened. Some speculated she took advantage of him while he slept (possibly spell and/or drug induced sleep). I liked that theory, but Stannis willingly going to Mel's bed is also an acceptable interpretation, IMO. A lot of readers like to construe characters in very narrow perimeters, but I don't think Stannis is quite as rigid as they like to make him out. I feel there are examples in the books of him making compromises; just discarding his God(s) for the Lord of Light is a compromise. Also, you could find dozens, or hundreds of real world examples of extremely inflexible, moralizing people who don't follow their own rules, especially where sex is concerned. Stannis at least has a better reason than most.
April 8, 2012 at 11:44PM ESTRobert I definitely caught all the implications of Stannis and Melisandre in the books, but I had always dismissed it as a red herring, since it seemed so out of character for Stannis. Ah well, guess I've been misjudging his character.
April 8, 2012 at 11:57PM ESTAndrew The reason we don't get it in explicit terms is because neither Stannis or Melisandre is a POV character, so it'd have to be someone else peeping. Not really Davos' style.
April 9, 2012 at 12:06AM ESTNaeem The implications were made mostly by Mel (I could be wrong here as I only read through once) and i just never considered her a reliable source. However, the fact that GRRM didn't squash this (I assume he has some input) proves that you all are right.
April 9, 2012 at 12:14AM ESTJohn I can't prove you wrong without breaking Alan's posting rules. But you are wrong.
April 9, 2012 at 12:55AM ESTsepinwall Guys. STOP.
April 9, 2012 at 12:58AM ESTI'm on the verge of deleting all these comments.
TALK ABOUT THE SHOW AS A TV SHOW. If you want to discuss the book, and deviations from the book, at this length, please go to the AV Club or elsewhere to do so.
joel This is a TV show. That is a book. Minor adjustments are going to happen. Get over it or you'll never enjoy the show.
April 9, 2012 at 1:49AM EST
I was scrolling down and kept thinking, wow, I'm surprised Alan hasn't shown up yet, and then boom, Midnight Run.
April 9, 2012 at 2:25AM ESTBut seriously, yeah, chill on the books talk. Plenty Of people don't wanna know.
Naeem My apologies, Alan, won't happen again. Reading back, I'd completely understand deleting this. Started off walking a tightrope and it got out of hand. Aaain, sorry.
April 9, 2012 at 6:03AM ESTosiskars SPOILER ALERT !
April 9, 2012 at 9:06PM ESTHey this all should be at the link Alan provided! .
Copy your comments and post there , So Sepinwall can delete this list of comments .. please lets do this for the people who want to watch and read this review without spoilers!!
scurvy
April 8, 2012 at 10:59PM EST Reply to CommentI'm glad they didn't show Robb this episode. I hope we get more of that.
Not crazy about the Asha/Yara name change, but if the character is the same I'm fine with it.
I liked it more than the premiere. Not too much reintroduction. More exposition and plot movement.
And, while I'm not crazy about the brothel scenes, as they've all been added by HBO, I did like the Theon scene on the ship. Helps explain his idea of the world and his role in it.
BTW, I thik htey have Stannis all wrong - it makes me grind me teeth everytime he's in a scene.
Meg I agree about Robb. Not impressed with him at all, unless we see how much he's acting and putting on a show for his men. His puffed up hero masculinity is annoying. Wish it was more about Cat instead of him.
April 8, 2012 at 11:13PM ESTaegon They changed the name because there's already a character name Osha, which is pronounced pretty much the exact same way as Asha. Some people have a hard enough time keeping track of all the characters without the show doubling up on names.
April 8, 2012 at 11:15PM ESTPrettok But 'yara' is too similar to 'Arya'. Couldn't they have just renamed her Caroline or Eleanor or Felicity?
April 8, 2012 at 11:41PM ESTWoody I reckon they figure we're smart enough to remember who Arya is, since she's probably in most people's top 5 favorite characters. Osha and Yara are both bit characters of similar age. Way easier to get them confused
April 9, 2012 at 9:36AM ESTsusy
April 8, 2012 at 11:06PM EST Reply to CommentI didn't like it. I think they are handling Littlefinger all wrong. Last week they showed him being totally careless with his knowledge (which is his power). I could overlook that, but the very next episode they show him threatening a whore? Littlefinger is one of the most calculating characters ever drawn on paper, yet the HBO show is making him look really amateurish and thug-like. I'm not even a Littlefinger fan.
Overall, the scenes this week that were created by the writers did not work imo (Littlefinger, Melisandre on the table) while I thought the scenes directly from the book were awesomely handled (Arya scene, Janos Slynt scene, anything with Tyrion).
Ghost growling (...) at an innocent pregnant girl is just wrong. That's an example of the writers ignoring character to make a scene work the way they want it to work out.
scurvy Agreed. Ghost can scare with his size and supernaturalness. He doesn't growl. He's silent. Like a ghost.
April 8, 2012 at 11:13PM ESTOmagus That's great and all...but making these adjustments isn't affecting the overall story (and yes, I've read the books). Nothing wrong with comparing the show to the books but at some point we have to bear in mind that this is an ADAPTATION. Some minor changes are going to occur. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
April 8, 2012 at 11:42PM EST@ I don't believe Ghost did growl. He was breathing audibly, but it really didn't sound like growling to me.
April 8, 2012 at 11:51PM ESTSusy Yes, but as I wrote, my opinion is that it didn't work. Alan asked for our opinions and I gave mine. I didn't write "just film the book exactly as written." To expand on what I wrote above, which I had hoped was sufficient, the changes did not work in this episode for me and additionally, I just did not like the episode vis a vis the others. That's my opinion.
April 8, 2012 at 11:53PM ESTsusy about the growling: I put the elipses after I mentioned the growl b/c we had this discussion last year when they verbalized (?) Ghost. My gripe isn't that we hear the silent Ghost make a sound b/c that already happened last year so we already know that Ghost in the series is not mute. My not-particularly-well-articulated point was that the direwolves are very good judges of character and do not growl at the innocent or otherwise "non-threatening to Stark children" characters. Ghost is intimidating just by sheer fact of his species, size and reputation. And since I came back to the Ghost scene, I'll add that having Samwell bossing Ghost around is also really odd.
April 9, 2012 at 12:00AM ESTNED Ghost didn't growl. He was just staring threateningly at her.
April 9, 2012 at 12:01AM ESTThe Melisandre bonin' was hugely implied in the books.
And Littlefinger... eh. I kind of agree. I'm reserving judgment, because he hasn't really had time to show who he really is yet, so here's hoping they don't screw him up!
Omagus I just rewatched the scene. Ned is correct in saying that Ghost didn't growl. But I don't even think he was being all that threatening to Gilly. He just kinda walks up to her and seems curious, more than anything.
April 9, 2012 at 12:17AM ESTI do agree, Susy, that having Sam order Ghost around is odd. But since it was established in the first book/season that Ghost is fond of Sam, it's a change that I can live with.
Dr. Dunkenstein I disagree about Littlefinger. As someone who hasn't read the books his scene struck me as sort of an important one for him. The guy is a pimp, at some point threatening whores is going to be part of the gig. We got a sense last season that he's sneaky and not to be trusted but this is the first time he's ever come across as cold and vicious(provided the story is true).
April 9, 2012 at 2:42AM ESTTime will tell if it's a consistent characterization but it absolutely revealed something about him that could prove worth knowing.
Sareeta I agree. Littlefinger is supposed to be this very smart, manipulative man who always seems to be laughing about some joke nobody else gets. I didn't like Aidan Gillen's portrayal of Littlefinger last season; I felt he was playing him very dryly...just reciting his lines. Now I'm thinking it's the writing that is worsening his characters. It is absurd to make him into such a villainous character.
April 9, 2012 at 7:16AM ESTPeter I didn't get the impression that Ghost was acting menacing toward the girl. If I recall correctly she was carring a dead rabbit. I merely thought Ghost was hungry.
April 9, 2012 at 9:37AM ESTJesse Ghost definitely wasn't growling. I know he wasn't because I instant messaged a friend after watching the scene to say, "Hey, they're doing Ghost right this season, making him silent."
April 9, 2012 at 10:58AM ESTIt kind of bugged me that Ghost snarled, not just because in the book he's silent, but because I think it would've seemed much more intimidating if they'd showed him snarling *without* making the sounds.
That, and it bugged me a bit that the dogs were barking in the show. Wolves don't bark, so that kinda further broke the illusion that the dogs were supposed to be wolves.
SailTheTethys I disagree about your opinion of Littlefinger in the scenes with Ros and Cersei. Compare those two scenes with each other and how LF dealt with Ned Stark and you'll see how quickly he adapts to shifts in power. With Ned, LF gained power through trust: he presented a threat (the Lannisters) and used that threat to make himself valuable to Ned (as he controlled the money, he could pay off the city watch). The whole time, he presents himself as sympathetic and concerned. We, the audience, are to gather that this method is how Littlefinger has gained so much power, having come from a relatively low station.
April 9, 2012 at 12:11PM ESTCompare that to his brash threat leveled at Cersei. We, the audience, know that this is a monumentally stupid move, but we know how ruthless Cersei is. LF (and by extension, the rest of the major players in court), on the other hand, has no experience with a woman in power. Readers of the book at this point will know that LF has a history of overstepping his boundaries and overestimating his influence on the ladies, but that was all revealed via exposition from other characters (which doesn't always translate well to screen). So he doesn't deal with Cersei as he would a man, he deals with her like he would one of his prostitutes - he foolishly dangles his power right in her face and expects her to submit to him. We get a little bit more character reveal from Cersei in this scene too; that she's utterly fed up with men underestimating her and also that she's beginning to think she's untouchable.
Now, look at his scene with Ros this week. I think Cersei's definitely taught him a lesson in dealing with women, and I think he's practicing this new approach on Ros. First, you have to realize that Ros isn't a slave; she entered the brothel of her free will and if she chooses, she can leave and find employment elsewhere. Second, you have to realize that she isn't threatened by LF judging by her openness with him after her client storms out. She knows she's valuable and it's likely that were he to outright threaten her, she'd leave him. So Littlefinger, having learned a lesson from Cersei in dealing with strong-minded women, adapts the approach he used with Ned to exert his power over Ros; he first gains her trust by being sympathetic. He introduces a threat (notice he's not the threat! the threat is that of a sadistic client) , makes himself valuable (he's protecting her from said client) and sets his terms (he can only afford to protect her as long as she's making him money). By reminding Ros that sadistic monsters do exist and will pay massive amounts of money to get their hands on her, he's established that her safety depends on him and his happiness. Furthermore, this entire exchange also reinforces in the viewer that Littlefinger is not to be trusted and that he's only concerned for himself.
So yes, I think these are both important scenes even though they deviate from the book. We see that Kings Landing isn't accustomed to a woman wielding political power (remember how easily the City Watch takes Joffrey's orders without consulting the queen; his power immediately trumps hers despite his inexperience and obvious foolishness simply because he is male). We see Cersei reveling in the fact that she's challenging these gender assumptions with her newfound power, but that she's beginning to believe she's above reproach or repercussion. Finally, we get to see how adaptable and manipulative Littlefinger is: it's likely that all future interactions he'll have with women, no matter how weak he believes they are, will involve manipulation instead of outright force.
Lisa I agree about Littlefinger. I only read the first 2 books, but he never struck me as just a flat-out sadist. He seemed more like we saw him in the first season of the show - calculating, cold, willing to do whatever it took to maintain his power, but not casually cruel and too smart to give himself away like that. It feels like they're setting him up in the show as more of a straight villain.
April 9, 2012 at 1:52PM ESTSusy I have rewatched the episode and though I'm still "meh" about much of it, I wanted to be sure to give two enthusiastic thumbs up to Jaqen H'ghar (gave me goosebumps) and Gendry. Both of these minor characters are really hitting it out of the ballpark. Can't wait for more Gendry adventures and to see what develops with Jaqen. Maisie Williams is fantastic and I'm thankful they dumped her shag haircut for a real boy's cut.
April 9, 2012 at 5:07PM ESTBBop2Right
April 8, 2012 at 11:10PM EST Reply to CommentI'm flabbergasted that people are giving this, or last week's premiere, any praise whatsoever. Nothing happened. The pace was terrible and there was once again an overuse of sex to distract from the shocking lack of quality.
I came into GOT knowing some of the story. I read the first 2 (and part of the 3rd) books until it became a chore and I was forced to throw it down. Yet, I could see that underneath Martin's fantasy cliche and shock-value sex & violence, there was a story worth hearing. I was hoping that the show would highlight that and drop the nonsense that put me off the first time around. But so far, just as the books mess everything up with a heavy helping of filler and silliness, the TV version does the same.
The fanbois will likely eat me alive here, but Game of Thrones is yet to prove itself the masterpiece so many claim it to be. I mean, what would this show be if it didn't have the talents of Peter Dinklage to drag it around?... I'll tell you. An hour of recycled exclamations such as "my sun & stars" and "blood of my blood", dragons, annoying children, and family members screwing each other. Oh, and boobs. Can't forget those. They're in every scene after all.
The only thing worth the time this week was John Snow following daddy incest through the woods. That's 30 seconds out of an hour. Not bad. Hoping for a solid minute next week.
Lindsey Just a matter of taste. No one will be offended if you stop watching.
April 8, 2012 at 11:47PM ESTNED You should finish book three. Or at least read a bit further. Trust me, you might be surprised.
April 9, 2012 at 12:04AM ESTTedd Wow, you're so wise. Now I understand that GRRM's been hoodwinking us this whole time. Thanks, BBop2Right.
April 9, 2012 at 9:24PM ESTBBOP2RIGHT You are very welcome. I only aim to please.
April 10, 2012 at 12:42AM ESTBen I also think the first two episodes of this season have been quite poor, except for tyrion-scenes. But probably not for the same reasons as you. I thought Jon's run-crawl-freakout in the snow at the end was kind of weak drama.
April 10, 2012 at 9:36PM ESTbrucek2
April 8, 2012 at 11:15PM EST Reply to CommentIf there was a theme, "Missing the bigger picture" might have been it.
Slynt concentrating on a cordial dinner while minutes away from exile; Theon enjoying (and not questioning) a random young woman offering him a ride to what he anticipates will be a warm welcome to power & glory; Cersei paying attention to anything else while treating the message from the Wall as little more than junk mail and not even wondering whatever happened to that Targarayen child -- all examples of people who think their world is one thing, when it really is something else entirely.
Its a credit to George RR Martin and the show that despite it happening so often and to such extremes, it all feels believable and realistic for those characters to be so far off.
Compare to many other shows where by this point I'd be throwing the remote in frustration and hating the writers for trying to make drama out of what is too clearly just a dumb character who needs to wake up.
susy that's a good insight into this week. thanks
April 9, 2012 at 12:03AM ESTMike
April 8, 2012 at 11:19PM EST Reply to CommentCan someone recommend a website that tracks the differences between the books and the TV show? I appreciate Alan's approach (and am a big fan in general), but I would also enjoy reading a reviewer who knows the books and is willing to be more spoiler-y. This episode in particular feels like the strongest deviation from the book so far.
Doza Honestly, nothing significant has been changed. Bronn replaced a character who get killed off, Ghost growled, Theon's sisters name changed, a book implication was turned into an actual scene, Arya told who she was earlier. The biggest change was with Jon. That last scene is completely new. Oh and the blood riders head in a bag.
April 8, 2012 at 11:25PM ESTSusy If I recall correctly, last season, TV Guide did dual reviews from reader and non-reader standpoints. Not sure if that is still the case.
April 8, 2012 at 11:36PM ESTsusy ..and of course the reader (spoiler) and non-reader (non-spoiler) forums for the series at westeros.org. But the forums crash after the new episodes air, which is no doubt why were are all over here. :-)
April 8, 2012 at 11:39PM ESTDasein Westeros.org has forums discussing all divergence.
April 9, 2012 at 12:05AM ESTFilipe The AVClub has 2 reviews one by book reader and one not. You should read Todd Van Der Werff reviews, he is one of the best weekly TV reeviewes around and thanks to rthis approach he is free to talk freely about stuff.
April 9, 2012 at 2:13AM EST
winteriscoming.com does a review roundup linking to reviews from readers and newbies. Though Nikki Staffords blog review is my fav, though doesn't go up for a couple days
April 9, 2012 at 4:36AM ESTMike Thanks for the suggestions!
April 9, 2012 at 1:25PM ESTScott
April 8, 2012 at 11:31PM EST Reply to CommentThe whole telling of the Theon story was very heavy handed. How many examples of him acting way too cocky while trying to implement a plan (to beg his father for help) that he had to beg his boss/brother to implement in the first place did we really need to see before it, quite surprisingly, blew up in his face in the most demeaning way possible?
Meg I guess if you're hyper cocky in the first place, any failure will seem excessively demeaning.
April 8, 2012 at 11:43PM ESTGraham
April 8, 2012 at 11:36PM EST Reply to Comment"Dany and her pitiful band"...Sorry Alan, but I couldn't read that without hearing Emperor Palpatine
Brandon
April 8, 2012 at 11:47PM EST Reply to CommentI have a possible solution to the discussion about the books Alan. Would you consider a different discussion board for the book readers? Pretty much like you did when you recapped Deadwood. Where as on Deadwood you had a discussion board for new watchers, and one for people who have already seen it, make one, for GofT, for those who have read the books, and one for those who haven't? Don't know if it's a good thought, but I had to throw it out there.
sepinwall No. I've explained this in previous posts on the show. It's not feasible. If you want to use the HitFix discussion boards for that, go right ahead. I'm not going to do multiple blog posts.
April 9, 2012 at 1:06AM ESTBrandon No problem Alan. Thanks for the reply at least.
April 9, 2012 at 2:56AM ESTMeg
April 8, 2012 at 11:59PM EST Reply to CommentI liked this episode much better than the premier! It was much more coherent and surprisingly...funny? It was not a jumbled episode like last time. The only jumbling going on were the game pieces tumbling off the table when Mel and Stannis get it on (fantastic symbolism btw).
Alan, I love you for your Lawrence of Arabia reference. So sad that it wasn't actually a person on that horse.
chuchundra
April 9, 2012 at 12:13AM EST Reply to CommentThe show suffers from the same issues that the book does. The need to cover all of the POVs slows the actual story to a crawl.
I love the individual scenes, but it doesn't seem like we're really going anywhere.
The Noble Robot
April 9, 2012 at 12:51AM EST Reply to CommentSo many nakkid ladies. And almost none of it was necessary to the plot. Sex scenes are fine (especially if they're in the book already, I wouldn't know) but this episode especially was a little on the nose with "It's not TV, It's HBO."
And it's worse because it's obvious that they're avoiding showing dudes' various bits with camera angles, etc., so it makes the female nudity seem even more calculated, despite the attempt to make it natural and unremarkable.
I mean, porn is free and everywhere, so what's the point?
odessasteps Weren't there naked guys last season? At least once or twice? Not at the same rate as the ladies, but still...
April 9, 2012 at 1:41PM ESTMBG B1tch pleeze.
April 9, 2012 at 4:06PM ESTTedd There were three instances of nudity in this episode. The one with Theon is important to set up his character, in the contrast between his expectations there and what actually happens when he meets his father. The Melisandre one is quite important, but for reasons that I can't mention. The only one that isn't totally warranted is the one with Littlefinger...though he does run brothels, which is important to his position as Minister of Finance, so it would be sort of weird to not show nudity there.
April 9, 2012 at 9:34PM ESTAnd although there is a fair amount of boobage, the show rarely if ever shows female naughty bits of the equivalent to the male ones that you want. Not sure what you're complaining about.
Tedd Hmm, Alan maybe delete that, I probably shouldn't have said anything about a particular scene being important. I'm getting annoyed by people deciding what scenes are and are not gratuitous 2/10 of the way through the series. It would be like reading a book chapter early in a novel and deciding that it was irrelevant. You can't know what's important until the book is over. Which, of course, ties into why I shouldn't have said what I did.
April 9, 2012 at 9:45PM ESTThis might be above your pay-grade, Alan, but there should be a way to delete your own comments on the blog. Not only would that help in situations like this, but it would also get rid of all those "reply to comment..." comments.
The Noble Robot I'm not saying character need not be naked (although I doubt that there will be some major revelation in episode 10 explaining why someone was naked in episode 2), I'm just saying there's no reason to show it on screen in such a brazen way.
April 11, 2012 at 1:58AM ESTBut if they want to go for it, they should really go for it. For sex scenes, go ahead and show us everything or just keep it obscured, otherwise if you obscure certain X-rated parts with camera angles but show R-rated parts with casual abandon, it is distracting because of how calculated it all is.
With so many on screen boobs, but notably not much of anything else, it just makes me roll my eyes, and frankly, it's bad filmmaking.
darthzombie Noble Robot, welcome to HBO broadcasting. The nudity and titillation is part of HBO shows, but only to the extant of gratuitous boobs and maybe a flash of penis every once in a while but never going all the way x-rated...
April 11, 2012 at 11:17PM EST- 1
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