FX cancels 'Terriers,' take 3: Interviewing creator Ted Griffin
On seeing the writing on the wall, the fun of the show, and where the truck would have gone
Britt (Michael Raymond-James) and Hank (Donal Logue) in the truck on "Terriers."
Though everyone ultimately agreed that the name of "Terriers" didn't help the show attract viewers during its single, glorious, extremely low-rated season, the show's creator Ted Griffin - the one who takes full credit/blame for the title - couldn't help sticking with dog metaphors when he called me up to discuss the show's cancellation.
"It's like putting a dog down," he said moments after I picked up the phone. "I knew it was limping, I knew it wasn't in good health, but it was still really tough to euthanize it. But in dog years, our show lasted seven seasons."
After the jump, a transcript of the rest of our conversation, including Griffin's perspective on the meeting he and fellow producers Shawn Ryan and Tim Minear had with FX president John Landgraf on Friday (I have Landgraf's own take on the cancellation here), when they knew the cancellation writing was on the wall, advice from frequent cancellation victim Minear, and even a few stray thoughts on where the show might have gone in its second (and even third!) season.
I just did the conference call with John (Landgraf), and he talked about the meeting he had with you and Shawn and Tim on Friday. How was that?
It was very nice. It was nice because he was obviously in so much pain about it. I sort of consider John to be as much a creative partner in this show as Tim, Shawn, Donal, Michael, etc. I don't think this thing would've been nearly as good were it not John Landgraf. We all had the same dog being put down. He went through in a lot of detail. My proudest moment was I said, "It's fine by me if we stop doing the autopsy and start doing the wake." He was showing how the pulse was dead, it wasn't breathing... It was the most amicable breakup of my life. And we kind of knew. The writing had been on the wall.
So what went wrong, in your opinion? Why couldn't this show get an audience?
I think marketing, like TV show making, is an inexact science. You can conjecture whether it was the title or the poster of the lack of a high concept to the very idea of the show that failed to hook an initial audience. That was our sole failure: hooking an initial audience. We launched horribly. That's my heartbreak. Given that it's television, I had hoped we would have more time than a movie does for word of mouth to take over. We got great word of mouth, but it didn't come on strong like I hoped it would. I can't blame an audience. I've never in my life watched a TV show in its first season. I always have to wait several seasons for someone to say, 'You have to see this.' That's how I discovered "The Wire" and "The Shield." I don't know the secret to getting people to watch a show in its first season.
Landgraf said he could see the writing on the wall after he did those focus groups following the third or fourth episode. When did you guys start to realize what was going to happen?
The reality settled in at the same time. Being newer to television, Michael Raymond-James and I kept on being really hopeful. Never-say-die Donal shared that hope with us. It was a unique situation where we had a group of people who really liked each other and liked working with each other. Everything was going right except one thing. (Laughs) That's the one thing that felled us. The two big downers of the cancellation are it's a real nice family breaking up, and I will miss those characters. I would have liked to watch them do more stuff. I knew we were 99 percent sunk for a while, but I still for a while sort of thought, "Everybody wants it to succeed so badly that maybe there's a chance."
I will only share this: that if you don't know which way that truck turns or doesn't turn at the end, you don't know Britt. He goes straight. The one thing, if there's anything to tie up from season one, is that in the first episode of season two, Katie would've come to Britt in prison with the paternity results, still unopened, and said, "If you really don't want to know, then you tear it up." The last scene of episode one was Britt taking that letter into the prison yard and opening it, and in a wide shot, we see him sort of punch the air in triumph. He's the dad.
Would Cutshaw (the big villain played by Neal McDonough) have come back?
Neal McDonough and I had talked about it, depending on what was going on in his life, we could always have him come back, if not in season two, then season three.
"Season three"? Wow. Kind of hurts just to hear that phrase.
Boy, when we finished that season, we had no idea.
Well, it's funny: you finished the season long before you had any idea that this is what would happen, and yet that final scene really does feel like the work of a man who knows his show is ending.
The title was even "Hail Mary." We had no idea. It might be that I come from a movie background, where you tie things up, that I'm not accustomed to ending on a cliffhanger. Maybe that was the influence. I do really admire television now for being sort of the new novel. Each season of the really best shows are a complete novel in some sense. We started this novel with the guys in the truck shooting the shit, and dealing with how to be free but how to be men. How to be irresponsible but not to waste their lives, and then at the end of the novel being at the same crossroads, but really not. They've both traveled a good distance, but no, they're not taking the left turn.
And they really can't. If Britt goes back to Mexico, he's wanted for stealing the drugs out of the police station.
Yeah, you lose track of things sometime when you're doing this many episodes. When I watched "Agua Caliente" (the episode with the Mexico trip), it struck me, "Oh, fuck, they can't go down to Mexico (after the finale). He's screwed down there." It's the difference between doing a two-hour movie and a 13-episode TV show.
Well, what else did you learn about doing TV over these 13?
It's a lot more work, and you get to fix mistakes episode to episode. It's a much deeper form, much richer than movies. There's a very boring cliche about how film is a collaborative medium. Sometimes, and sometimes not, but in TV, you'll never survive unless there are four or five big pairs of shoulders carrying water. If those shows that really seem like singular vision shows, if those are singular vision, I don't know how they sleep.
You worked very closely with Tim on this, and Tim has been through (cancellation) a lot. Did he have any words of wisdom for you?
No, but what I appreciate about Tim is that he's been through this so often and he's not blase about it. I read some quote of his where he said, "This is both the most painful and painless cancellation, because you really like the show and hate to see it go, but it was such a great time." It was actually much more than we hoped it would be creatively. A Nielsen rating, which is something that I still don't quite get why it's the barometer in this technological age, that that didn't go our way is no reflection on us. Tim deserves more credit for this show. Every time I read something it's just Shawn's name or mine, Tim should have been on the first end credit.
When you say it was more than you hoped it would be - at what point did you realize, "Hey, we maybe have something special here"?
I don't think we ever got that arrogant, and if we did, we deserve this cancellation. But around, I think, the Olivia Williams episode, and definitely by "Fustercluck," we thought, "This is something that's a lot of fun, and this is working." We knew we had something good by then. And then it was trying to keep up to that. Television's weird, because half the time you're fighting the lure of just turning something in and getting a B and being done with it. And that was the great thing about working with Tim and Shawn, is if anyone was turning in a B, someone would call him out on it.
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 58 CommentsMiken
December 6, 2010 at 5:56PM EST Reply to CommentI look forward to whatever Ted Griffin can get off the ground next. I love his storytelling and I'm sad to see this show go.
Luke Oakman
December 6, 2010 at 5:59PM EST Reply to CommentA shame that this show was canceled. Caught up with the 1st 3 episodes and then just enjoyed the ride the rest of the way. Look forward to the DVD release and anything the creators and the cast do in the future.
conrad if you're feeling nostalgic, here's a link to an extended version of the theme song:
December 7, 2010 at 10:31AM ESThttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVHOn-S82ms
has to be one of my favorite theme songs ever. it always put a smile on my face.
George Heres the full theme
December 8, 2010 at 4:51PM ESThttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD8Kh7Pmzho
December 6, 2010 at 6:03PM EST Reply to CommentI wonder if there is any chance that channel 101 on satellite will pick this show up like they did for damages and friday night lights.
sepinwall As people have said on the other two Terriers posts today, DirecTV has announced they're getting out of the show-saving business.
December 6, 2010 at 6:08PM ESTTerriers is done. It's sad, but it's the truth.
Cody B
December 6, 2010 at 6:12PM EST Reply to CommentIs there any chance of this show getting picked up by another channel like how Southland was cancelled by NBC but picked up by TNT?
December 6, 2010 at 6:17PM EST Reply to CommentFor me, the minute I saw that Donal Logue was in this show, I was in. I didn't really care what the premise was. So I didn't really think much about the way they marketed this show.
It's too bad he's not more of a household name, and after this show, he really should be. Too bad people don't really like subtle shows that don't fit neatly into a box.
Jane FX - There is no box.
December 6, 2010 at 7:27PM ESTOr is there?
Very disappointed, this was a quality show in all aspects; writing, acting and directing.
r1pvanw1nkl3
December 6, 2010 at 6:17PM EST Reply to Commentman, reading this just made me even more upset. or maybe it was because I had the excellent theme song playing in the background.
Luke Oakman Have not stopped listening to it today.
December 6, 2010 at 6:57PM ESTLJA
December 6, 2010 at 6:20PM EST Reply to CommentJamie Denbo started a #TerriersSeason2Spoilers tag on Twitter earlier today. She's a very funny lady.
Dave I
December 6, 2010 at 6:41PM EST Reply to CommentCrap.
chris
December 6, 2010 at 6:54PM EST Reply to CommentIt's sad that I'm at least happy to know they went straight and that Katie's baby is Britt's.
DB Cooper
December 6, 2010 at 6:56PM EST Reply to CommentI don't think the final scene was ever intended to be taken seriously. It reminded me of the end of "Butch Cassidy," where the guys bicker about going to Australia, even though it's (SPOILER) clear that they're never going to actually go.
December 6, 2010 at 7:14PM EST Reply to Comment...and yet, Hawaii Five-O goes on.
Jane ...and CSI-Miami, unbelievable.
December 6, 2010 at 7:35PM ESTPlease Keep Terriers I felt an actual, physical twinge of sadness when I read the headline for these three articles. Horrible news. FX, just like AMC with their decision to cancel Rubicon, proves that they dont care about intelligent programming.
December 6, 2010 at 7:38PM ESTIn regard to the 5-Oh statement, I am reminded of a television show when I was growing up - Call to Glory, which was about an Air Force family during the early years of Vietnam. Great stuff, well written, enjoyable. And it got canned whilst the inane and vapid A-Team carried on.
Hollywood is only interested in the almighty dollar, NOT great storytelling.
Kamal Good point, the two best new shows on non-premium TV (Terriers & Rubicon) both get cancelled after one season, sometimes the TV business just sucks!
December 7, 2010 at 12:49PM ESTOliver
December 6, 2010 at 7:48PM EST Reply to Comment"if you don't know which way that truck turns or doesn't turn at the end, you don't know Britt. He goes straight."
That's what bothered me most about the finale - people activly discussing which way they're gonna go ;)
You just finished watching this wonderful series, so precise and nuanced... and you don't understand these (fictional) characters AT ALL. Good for you - so much more to discover when you rewatch the whole thing on DVD (which you most definitely will)
GersonK While I didn't consider left a likely option, I still considered it at least possible. It's weird that not even a week after the finale aired, we have a definitive answer. I think in the pre-internet days, even if the common wisdom settled onto "straight" pretty quickly, this would have lasted as an open question for months to years.
December 6, 2010 at 10:23PM ESTJoseph
December 6, 2010 at 7:50PM EST Reply to CommentHe makes a good point about the Nielsens. I wonder how much longer Hollywood is going to cling to that for ratings info
Ginarclark
December 6, 2010 at 8:00PM EST Reply to CommentBravo to the cast, writers, directors, and crew of Terriers. I already miss you like you are old friends. Well done everyone, except FX 's marketing department and one lousy focus group.
Chrissy
December 6, 2010 at 8:24PM EST Reply to CommentI just want to say that I like the name. The advertising was awful, but the name is sweet.
December 6, 2010 at 8:41PM EST Reply to CommentWhat an amazing show, which I fell in love with. However, I would like to put my two cents in for one of Terrier's potential downfall in ratings. I may or may not be correct but here's my analysis...
Terrier has very, very strong storytelling -- its story lured me in and makes me wonder what would happen next. It makes me care somewhat about the characters as well -- whether or not they'd make it out of the mess they're in. That worked. However, one thing that "Terriers" didn't have that "Dexter" had was "character". Gufaston(sp?) and Hank's sister were both great characters and I was always wondering when they'd appear next. They were both characters that you don't really see everyday or being "ordinary". You can either hate or love 'em both, and not in between. This is what "Fringe", "Damages", and "Friday Night Lights" struggled with, I think. How to make character that became the reason why you should watch that show. Hank and Britt are both pretty ordinary to me, like I see those types everyday in real life.
Now we look at "Dexter" and see Trinity, Dexter, Debera, that pervert Asian guy, etc, etc. "Dexter" has character and is doing something right if it still gets renewed for each season. You could have strong storytelling but it'll only carry a program as far but not as far as having characters and unique ones that I might add, like "Dexter". Storytelling isn't "Dexter" strong suit but it has another arsenal - character.
Anyways, that's my two cents. I may/may not be wrong but it's something that I realize each time a good, potential program like "Terriers" is canceled and this issue seem to be the reason why.
Oops, *Debra, not Debera. Typo above.
December 6, 2010 at 8:53PM ESTDB Cooper Dexter has caricatures.
December 7, 2010 at 4:00PM EST
December 6, 2010 at 9:05PM EST Reply to CommentI'm utterly distraught over this being canceled, even though I knew it was coming.
Still, I can say without a doubt that this was the best unknown series finale I've ever seen. The last scene with Hank and Britt in the truck belongs with the classic, big dogs (no pun intended) like The Shield and The Wire.
Just masterful.
Tim ok thats a little nuts, show is very good and im sad to see it go but its not even in the same sentence as the 2 u mentioned for me, as far as finales go or overall
December 6, 2010 at 9:36PM ESTAngeline
December 6, 2010 at 9:17PM EST Reply to CommentThe name was horrible, and also you need stronger actors to carry such a show. NO matter how good the actors are, they were not strong enough. Also, there seems to be too many vigilante type cop shows out there right now, and attention spans wane.
Luke Oakman I felt the acting was incredibly strong. I cannot think of another actor or actress that could play any of those characters.
December 6, 2010 at 9:37PM ESTJack
December 6, 2010 at 9:29PM EST Reply to CommentScrew FX, someone should pick this up. maybe a no restriction channel like HBO. This was the best show to come out of FX period. All their other shows (with the hopeful exception of Archer and the League) have all started to suck. Terriers was FX's second chance. They blew it.
Dudleys Mom
December 6, 2010 at 9:31PM EST Reply to CommentDear Mr. Griffin:
Thank you for making a compelling show. Please don't give up on writing shows that challenge the viewers.
Thanks for a great season of TV,
Dudley's Mom
Tim
December 6, 2010 at 9:38PM EST Reply to CommentI actually thought the last few episodes were pretty weak. I was dissapointed by the penultimate and the finale. I just didnt find that ocean beach airport plot interesting enough to care about at all.....the show was at its best in the middle episodes when it dealt much more with the emotional battles of the characters, thats what was fascinating about this show to me.....the final stretch was anticlimactic to me.
OceanBeachMayor
December 6, 2010 at 9:40PM EST Reply to CommentI say to you: don't lose heart, dear fans. This show *can* be saved. What it needs is a passionate, focused, sustained grassroots/word-of-mouth effort. Or perhaps an enterprising, savvy exec at another network. But both couldn't hurt. Here's hoping that the "Terriers" showrunners are actively shopping their gem starting Tuesday morning.
First: there are changes a-coming in how to more accurately gauge audience viewership as we collectively move away from traditional cable/set-top-box content delivery systems. The FX execs might well become enlightened on antiquated ratings systems' vast underreporting of true viewership numbers. There's been a host of criticism re: Nielsen's stubborn refusal/ineptitude to take into account Web streams and digital downloads a la iTunes, and so on. The folks at AMC get this. If they didn't, "Mad Men" might've died a premature death.
Secondly: look into the case of "Southland," a high-quality, gritty, hyperrealistic, not-your-run-of-the-mill cop show that surely deserved saving. NBC bungled the Season 1 deployment mightily during the "Jay Leno Show" debacle, and canceled the show prematurely, claiming it to be too "dark" for their intended timeslot. But a bidding war soon kicked in, TNT snapped it up, and immediately ordered an additional season. Life after death.
Lastly, witness the heartening case of Joss Whedon's "Firefly." Did a rather ambiguous title hinder *this* epic series? Naw. In fact, never has such a devoted fanbase been responsible for such post-cancellation fervor; their near-obsessive efforts culminated in a major motion picture release(!) ("Serenity") following Fox's terrible sabotage of a truly great series' limited run of just 13 episodes.
Amazing things *can* happen, if there's enough passion. So: whaddya say we get those petitions in circulation, and chat this up in the social interwebs. If you're truly serious about putting some action behind something worth saving, then, by all means: hop to it.
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P.S. --Attention Messrs. Minear, Ryan & Griffin: A thousand thank-yous for bringing such a fantastic show to your viewers each week, and for never underestimating the intelligence of your audience, who do appreciate complex character studies and multi-show story arcs. There is indeed an appetite and abiding respect for your able craftsmanship.
dave It's so obvious this comment was written by the creator. Dude, Nielsen's being antiquated or not, no one watched the show. A) No one cares about the actors playing the roles, because they're not especially talented and they're not at all attractive, B) The title was God awful.
December 31, 2010 at 2:03AM ESTThe numbers tell the story. You think people were downloading this? Come on. Everyone has to deal with the same issues when it comes to ratings. Stop whining.
Ed
December 6, 2010 at 10:24PM EST Reply to CommentSo they were 99% sure it was sunk, but Shawn Ryan was telling people to buy the show on iTunes and gift it last week. Am I wrong for finding that a little skeezy?
Mikey yes, you are.... cuz a million buys from iTunes could very well have changed the outcome.
December 6, 2010 at 10:41PM ESTEd @Mikey, a million people don't watch the show...fewer than 10,000 people follow Shawn Ryan on twitter. There was no way an eleventh hour plea for iTunes buys would have made a difference. I get fans banding together to save shows with Subway or Nuts, but a creator telling people to spend their money on something he is 99% certain will be cancelled feels wrong...too desperate.
December 7, 2010 at 1:14AM EST
The nerve of Shawn Ryan for having the gall to advertise the product he helped create.
December 7, 2010 at 11:51AM ESTDB Cooper I'm lost. How does the fact that the show is cancelled -- after running a full season -- somehow make the iTunes purchase less valid?
December 7, 2010 at 4:04PM ESTThe show is good. *I* will recommend that people buy it on DVD or iTunes and watch, even knowing with 100% certainty that is is cancelled.
ed @Brandon, not just advertising, pleading with people to watch the show live AND buy it on iTunes at the eleventh hour as a way to help the show get renewed. It just feels like he was taking advantage of his most passionate fans when he knew how astronomically low the odds of renewal were.
December 8, 2010 at 12:55PM ESTerinpayton
December 6, 2010 at 11:21PM EST Reply to CommentI'm definitely sad about it, but a show runs on advertising, and whatever the reasons this show didn't get the ratings, the money wasn't there.
Regardless, I want to tell Alan that the only reason I started watching was because he mentioned it (I don't get expanded cable), and it was wonderful. I was upset by the 8-day Hulu delay, but I dealt with it. Would it have made a difference for it to be MORE available? Who's to say? But for the 13 wonderful episodes, I thank Alan for turning me on to such a great story.
I wish studios were more willing to stand by critical hits, but unfortunately (besides HBO's notorious example of "The Wire") that's just not the case. It's sad, but true, and I won't stop trying things that are worthwhile.
IT DOES make me glad that AMC accepts some lower ratings with excellent shows like Mad Men. There have to be SOME benefits for niche viewers like myself!
And the upside? If it had been on network tv (with the same ratings), it would've been canceled after one episode (a la Lone Star, which wasn't nearly as compelling as this from the beginning). So I'm counting my blessings!
Dolomite133
December 6, 2010 at 11:44PM EST Reply to CommentThis will go down as one of the Top 10 most regrettable cancellations in TV history. Years from now this season will be recognized for the gem that it was. FX dropped the ball. Had they hung in, waited a year, improved their marketing campaign and highlighted the characters and scripts, the fans would have come. Just like The Wire.
Ed It stinks that a great show got cancelled, but this is a business, and it has a different model than HBO. And even though it was on Pay Cable, The Wire did a lot better than Terriers (even Bored to Death does better than Terriers). The ratings were truly awful. I can't blame fX for not renewing it.
December 7, 2010 at 1:18AM ESTBo
December 6, 2010 at 11:51PM EST Reply to CommentMuch as I saw it coming, this sucks and I hate FX at the moment. I take it back, I hate the people who didn't watch the show and are responsible for it failing, FX seemed to really want this show to work and had no choice here.
Col Bat Guano
December 7, 2010 at 1:38AM EST Reply to CommentFirefly, Party Down, Terriers.......sigh
Mark D
December 7, 2010 at 5:46PM EST Reply to CommentMy wife and i just caught up on our DVR and I landed here searching for when new season starts.
Rut-ro
Hank, Britt - hardly knew you but miss you already
Clay
December 7, 2010 at 7:34PM EST Reply to CommentI hope Griffin gets another shot at a series and doesn't go back solely to features. You can tell that he enjoys writing for TV because it has more depth. Here's hoping he's got another subtle gem up his sleeve.
Burns
December 7, 2010 at 10:58PM EST Reply to CommentI really can't believe they canceled this show, I know the ratings sucked but this show was just so damn good, this is proof again that most Americans have no taste and as Mr. Griffin pointed out the Neilson ratings system is so completely arbitrary and outmoded at this point.
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