Firewall & Iceberg Podcast, episode 71: 'Justified,' 'Fringe,' 'Parks and Recreation' and more
Alan and Dan answer a lot of listener mail this week
It's Monday, which means it's time for a new Firewall & Iceberg Podcast, in which Dan and I look back over the about-to-end seasons of "Justified" and "Fringe" and answer a bunch of your questions - most of which somehow take us back to the subject of "Parks and Recreation." The run-down:
"Justified" pre-finale -- 01:00 - 20:30
"Fringe" pre-finale -- 20:40 - 33:00
Listener mail: Can a comedy be "the best show on TV" -- 33:22 - 39:15
Listener mail: Low-rated networks getting audiences -- 39:15 - 43:10
Listener mail: The decline of the lead-in -- 43:20 - 47:20
Listener mail: Shows that were successful after cast departures -- 47:30 - 58:5As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. Or you can always follow our RSS Feed, download the MP3 file or stream it on Dan's blog.
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Alan Sepinwall has been reviewing television since the mid-'90s, first for Tony Soprano's hometown paper, The Star-Ledger, and now for HitFix. His new book, "The Revolution Was Televised," about the last 15 years of TV drama, is for sale at Amazon. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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May 2, 2011 at 5:22PM EST Reply to CommentLeadins still matter in some circumstances:
1. Anything that draws a massive (particularly older-skewing) audience can still be a strong leadin. Castle would probably not be a hit absent the DWTS leadin.
2. Flow still matters--as Dan points out, the biggest example of that is the NCIS:LA--Good Wife drop. It's clear they're going to move Good Wife, and it's going to be interesting where they move it (Monday and Wednesday present interesting positions for it).
alamble I could definitely see a Good Wife/5-0 timeslot swap. Quite frankly, I failed to see a good reason why 5-0 wasn't scheduled in the Tuesday 10PM slot in the first place. It seemed like such an obvious fit with the NCIS franchise.
May 2, 2011 at 7:51PM EST
May 2, 2011 at 10:52PM EST
May 2, 2011 at 5:23PM EST Reply to CommentCan I ask why I have to click through to Dan's blog to stream the podcast? Is the goose chase purely to double up pageviews, or is there a more benign reason?
(Because it's a pain for those of us on mobile networks.)
dan Chris - It's not really a goose chase after 60+ podcasts with the exact same thing. You know EXACTLY where the goose is going to be and the goose waits patiently for you.
May 2, 2011 at 5:28PM ESTThe simple answer: The feed to the iTunes store goes through my blog, as it pre-dates Alan's arrival at HitFix. Having two blogs, each with the podcast uploaded to it and each streaming the same podcast would run the pointless risk of bogging down the site.
Couldn't care less about the doubled up page views. Follow my Twitter feed or RSS feed and only go to my blog on podcast days if that would make life easier for you.
-Daniel
May 3, 2011 at 1:33AM ESTClay
May 2, 2011 at 10:17PM EST Reply to CommentI'm surprised that Alan finds the continuity of the "Jacksonville stuff" on Fringe that troubling. I'm mean sure it's a giant retcon for the main characters to not remember there experiences together but it's also pretty easily explained in the show's expanded mythology.
Walter and his wife probably spent years "reconditioning" Peter in therapy so he would stop asking about the Brooklyn Dodgers constantly. Olivia was probably pumped full of so many psychotropic drugs that it's a miracle she remembers anything from that age at all. And let's not forget that William Bell removed parts of Walter's brain to make him forget things. Drugs, experimental surgery, therapy.. take your pick. These are all things we've seen within the universe of the show.
There were/ still are plenty of dangling continuity problems from the early days of the show but the characters not recognizing each other ain't one of them.
Anyway, thanks for the podcasts and I have no problem engaging in a massive goose chase to find them. Hell, make it a contest and the winner gets whatever upfront swag you guys don't want.
R.U. Serious
May 3, 2011 at 9:09AM EST Reply to CommentThis podcast either needs someone funny on it, because both of you guys are way better as the straight man, or you guys just need to quit trying to generate laughs. It's awkward for me as a listener, please be considerate! I'm sure Dan will have a snarky comment, but that won't be noticeably funny either, and I'll read it with that rising inflection that seems to end every sentence of his. Then say a limp "yay". I'm not saying I'm not going to listen, there are no good TV podcasts.
Anyway, I agree that Justified has been very strong in the second half of the season, particularly as Raylin gets some distance between his storyline and the Winona line.
Bryan
May 3, 2011 at 10:20AM EST Reply to CommentI'm just sitting hear listening to the podcast and in case Alan or Dan are monitoring.
Alan, I can't believe you didn't bring up Cranston's swinging, molesting, Jewish converted dentist. Wasn't THAT enough to put him among the greats - I know Dan probably thinks so.
sepinwall If you put every memorable Seinfeld recurring player into the Pantheon, it'd be an awfully crowded place.
May 3, 2011 at 12:03PM ESTR.U. Serious
May 3, 2011 at 11:44AM EST Reply to CommentI like the idea of a "Pantheon" for pretty much all sorts of entertainment, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to an actor to require that he was great in two or more shows with a wide range of character, a la Cranston. It seems like most actors, like 99% of television leads, really only have one single character that is associated with the rest of their careers. Does Gandolfini get penalized because he was only great as one character? Is Archie Bunker (carrol whatever his name) only great because he was decent in that In the Heat of the Night adaptation? Is Jon Hamm not in the Pantheon because no one had ever seen him before Mad Men, and I'm pretty sure he won't do another television show by the time that's over? I think wide character range is like a World Series ring is to the Hall of Fame. A nice tiebreaker (I'm looking at you, Kirby Puckett) feature to get you off the fence, but if you're Ted Williams, you're a Hall of Famer. Cranston, Gandolfini, Hamm...those guys are Ted Williamses.
sepinwall You'll note that Dan said Gandolfini was Pantheon-worthy just for being Tony Soprano. The point was that Olyphant hasn't been playing Raylan long enough for him to get any kind of serious consideration without another performance of equal or greater brilliance.
May 3, 2011 at 12:06PM ESTMadlyMild
May 3, 2011 at 11:52AM EST Reply to CommentI'm getting the podcast streamed when I click download the mp3
RU Serious
May 3, 2011 at 12:18PM EST Reply to CommentTHere's no way to put Olyphant in the Pantheon at all, in my book. I didn't like his performance in Deadwood, I thought it was pretty one note for the most part on a show that I really, really loved (how Gerlad McRainey didn't win an Emmy for his season 3 turn I don't understand). We get it, you're seething, jeez. Would Dennis Franz be in the Pantheon?
Perhaps the more effective discussion is which TV CHARACTERS belong in the Pantheon.
Mike
May 3, 2011 at 4:42PM EST Reply to CommentSort of surprised that Alec Baldwin's eventual departure from 30 Rock didn't get mentioned. The Office has been relatively good about beefing up the supporting cast so that a Michael-less show isn't so farfetched. However, 30 Rock seems to be putting more and more reliance on the Liz-Jack relationship to provide some semblance of stability. Is their a relationship that can step in for that?
gladly
May 3, 2011 at 5:00PM EST Reply to CommentWould "The Practice"/"Boston Legal" count as a series with a departing lead character? I could certainly argue that James Spader was a step-up from Dylan Baker. Or, was that more of a transition/spin-off situation? I can't really remember, and I didn't watch either show religiously.
May 3, 2011 at 10:51PM EST Reply to CommentI'm glad that the guys finally mentioned some old shows at the end of the podcast. One nitpick I often have about the podcast is lack of historical references. Old guys do listen to the pod too, not just 18-34 olds.
Some other replacements I thought of while listening:
The two Darrens on Bewitched
all the changes on MASH
more importantly, for me, Peter Graves replacing Steven Hill as leader on Mission: Impossible
TMB Or the interchangeable Beckys on 'Roseanne'...good comment.
May 5, 2011 at 10:42AM ESTAlan or Dan - I have no idea if you ever read these comments, but a couple weeks ago you talked about how you were disappointed in 'Breaking In'. I hope you've managed to stay with it because I thought last night's episode at Comic-Con was hilarious! I think this show is finally starting to hit its stride, and Slater could not be more perfectly cast in his role. Also had no idea the guy who played Lex on Smallville had any comedic range, but he's surprised me.
Brandon
May 4, 2011 at 12:22AM EST Reply to CommentGuys, re: cases of past television shows re-formatting and/or dropping the lead and still surviving - How about "Good Morning Miss Bliss" dropping Miss Bliss and going to the much beloved "Saved By The Bell". Laugh all you want, but you can't tell me it wasn't much more of a commercial success in the newer format.
May 4, 2011 at 9:29AM EST Reply to CommentA show that was improved by replacing the lead character: Babylon 5. While it was somewhat an ensemble show, Sinclair/Sheridan were clearly the main characters during their respective seasons, and the change was definitely an upgrade, and was done with little enough animosity that the original actor was able to come back for guest spots.