Review: 'Community' - 'Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking': Pierce the puppet-master
LeVar Burton guests in a memorably format-breaking episode, but has Pierce's behavior gone too far?
LeVar Burton and Donald Glover on "Community."
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A review of tonight's "Community" coming up just as soon as I bounce a check to Kunta Kinte...
Taken just on its own merits as an individual episode of "Community," I thought "Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking" was pretty fantastic: an affectionate spoof of the mockumentary style of "The Office" and "Modern Family" that then used that style to tell a bunch of really effective, even moving, character stories while still leaving room for big laughs from Troy's terrified reaction to smilin' LeVar Burton.
Looked at from the bigger picture of season two - specifically from the episodes we've gotten in 2011 - it was more problematic.
To put it simply, I loved the episode and yet I find it hard to believe that the study group would ever tolerate Pierce's presence after what he does here.
I talked about Pierce's troubling behavior in the D&D episode, and when we got the painkiller addiction story last week, I assumed that was how the series would deal with it: all of Pierce's recent thuggishness would be written off as a result of the pills and he would go back to being the offensive but not malicious character he'd been before. When the Russo brothers spoke about this episode with Vulture's Joe Adalian, they said one of its goals was to help redeem Pierce. If anything, I think the opposite happened. Pierce was even more evil here than he was in the D&D episode, or the trampoline episode, or at pretty much any time in the life of the series. What he did to the group in general and Jeff in particular was pretty unforgivable, and it was done without the aid of pain pills. This was an unclouded Pierce doing this, and if we're supposed to take the emotions of the study group seriously - which this series, and this episode in particular, asks us to do - then this would lead to a permanent shunning.
Even Pierce's explanation for why he did it shouldn't help. It makes sense from Pierce's point of view, because he's so oblivious to his own flaws that he thinks he's been treated unfairly by the others all this time. But this isn't like Jerry on "Parks and Recreation" being unfairly turned into the butt of everyone's jokes and scorn(*). Pierce is treated the way he is because of how he treats others, going all the way back to the pilot. He wasn't originally a bad guy, but he was definitely someone who could be extremely difficult to be around, to the point where it wasn't unreasonable for the others to avoid him and/or joke about him behind his back. Jeff says that Pierce's behavior here doesn't disprove the theory that he's a joke, but it's actually worse. The only way I could see him regaining the others' affection and approval would be if he acted out what's written in Royal Tenenbaum's epitaph - and, of course, he'd be dead at the end of that.
(*) Though, come to think of it, a "Jerry's revenge" episode of "Parks and Rec" would be kind of fantastic. Get on it, Ken Tremendous!
If "Community" wants to be a show that doesn't care about continuity or consistent characterization and just try to tell the funniest jokes and most memorable stories it can each week, I would be disappointed but would at least be able to accept Pierce's ongoing presence. But that's not what that show was or is, and all the material involving Jeff, Britta, Shirley and Annie was a reminder of that.
Right now, the show has a pretty big Pierce problem, and this episode not only didn't start to fix it, it made it worse.
And yet, again, taken outside the context of that Pierce problem, it was wonderful. Hell, even Pierce's behavior itself was a great showcase for Chevy Chase if you can set aside the notion of consistency and consequences.
First, let's take the mockumentary framework, which was a great example of "Community" having its cake and eating it, too. Not only does it get Abed out of the way (since Pierce's mindgames would have never worked on him, and I think even Pierce would recognize that), but it allows the show to point out the many crutches that the docu-style comedies lean on - talking head interviews for easy exposition of complicated plots, random shots plus a voiceover to suggest thematic connection when you don't have a proper ending in mind - at the same time it's taking full advantage of them. I don't know how you tell this particular story - or, at least, tell it this well - without the device.
And showing everything as filmed through Abed's cameras also allowed the show to achieve a level of intimacy and emotional honesty with several of its characters that it's much harder to achieve within the context of a "normal" episode.(**) Yes, most episodes have some kind of heartwarming moment, even the more ridiculous or pop culture referential episodes like the chicken fingers outing, but the documentary device created this added illusory level of reality to the proceedings. This version of Jeff Winger seemed even more human than the Jeff Winger we usually get, and that allowed the show to really get up close and personal with the anguish and confusion he was feeling over Pierce's lie about his dad.(***)
(**) As we've discussed repeatedly, ain't no such thing as a "normal" episode of this show.
(***) If the Emmys ever recognized that this show, and Joel McHale in particular, existed, I think this might be a very fine submission episode for him.
It was especially impressive that the episode reached this level of intimacy and vulnerability and yet was still able to leave plenty of room for jokes. Troy's bequeathing was just a joke from beginning to end - and a hilarious one, given that Donald Glover crying and/or screaming is never not funny, and when you couple that with his stone-faced terror mask, you get something truly special.(****)
(****) Similarly, if the Emmy voters ever got their heads out of their rears and realized how funny Glover was, I imagine he could get very far with an episode that features him breaking down in sobs as he sings the "Reading Rainbow" theme and screams, "Set phasers to love me!!!!"
But even the other four bequeathing stories had their funny moments: Britta's explanabrag about complisults, Britta and Jeff's role-playing exercise that quickly gets out of control as they try to one-up each other, Shirley acknowledging that she uses guilt as a weapon and then using it on Abed, Troy explaining that he and Abed have a pact to stage the other's death like a suicide based on the unjust cancellation of "Firefly," LeVar Burton's pleased "More fish for Kunta!," etc. At the same time the episode was dealing honestly with Jeff's abandonment issues, with Shirley's insecurities about her place within the group, with Britta's belief that she's not worthy of the ideals she always brags about, etc., it was also finding ways to tell jokes about many of those things.
And, again, within the context of this episode, Chevy Chase was pretty damn superb. We know how desperately Pierce craves being the center of attention (and suspect that Chevy does, as well), and so an episode in which every character is either talking to him, talking about him, or struggilng with something he's done to them was like a dream come true, and I loved the ways both big and small that he picked the others apart. (One of my favorites was his disappointed "oh" at hearing that the presence in his room isn't Death, but Britta.)
On its own, one of my favorite "Community" episodes ever. But I don't know how the hell they dig their way out of the Pierce hole after this. They could try swapping his position with Chang's, but the end implied that he's still part of the group, and I don't buy that. At all.
What did everybody else think?
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Next 149 Commentsohonestly
February 17, 2011 at 9:36PM EST Reply to Commentit was so so great from beginning to end that i almost don't want to think about its place in the season as a hole, but i agree - harmon and the writers have created for themselves a Pierce Dilemma and i'm worried about how they'll overcome it.
ohonestly ugh, sorry - *whole
February 17, 2011 at 9:36PM ESTKickPuncher I agree that Pierce's behavior is troubling for the show in the short-term, but it will make much more sense in the Season 5 arc, when Jeff Winger, who finally gets his attorney license back, has to defend Britta, Troy and Shirley since they are being charged for the violent murder of Pierce. Annie, who just graduated and became Jeff's paralegal, assists on the case. Abed is the CourtTV cameraman, and Chang is the bailiff. In the end, Jeff proves that Rich was the one that did it, finally revealing that beneath his sunny demeanor, he is actually a serial killer, which let's face it, we all suspect anyway. (In the final plot twist, we find that while Rich is charged with the crime, the murder was actually orchestrated by Levar Burton, who was mad Pierce wouldn't pay for his flight home from the hospital).
February 18, 2011 at 11:13AM ESTBlake
February 17, 2011 at 9:36PM EST Reply to CommentAlan: I just started watching this show recently. I really like it -- it's way more creative than most sitcoms, which usually bore me. But I don't understand the background. Why are they in a study group together? Why is it so important they stay together? Is there some place I can read a catch-up synopsis?
Andrew It's basically a hokey sitcom premise. Jeff needs to get a Bachelor's Degree because his was fraudulent so he goes to community college. He sees Britta, wants to have sex with her, so fakes a study group. She tells others, etc.
February 17, 2011 at 9:43PM ESTcal I can't recommend the Season 1 DVDs highly enough. They are really cheap and loaded with extras and commentary.
February 17, 2011 at 10:16PM ESTReflection Still trying to figure out what they're going to do about Jeff getting that BA. Are they all going to go to the same four-year school after this?
February 17, 2011 at 11:47PM ESTechos myron It will get cancelled long before that scenario becomes a problem. It won't last beyond a third season.
February 17, 2011 at 11:59PM EST
They said worse about Chuck...This is NBC, as long as they pump out terrible new shows, existing shows with a consistent (albeit small) audience like Community, Chuck, etc. will have a place on the air
February 18, 2011 at 12:42AM ESTNew Age Apostle I don't think thats fair. NBC has been pretty terrific with comedy recently (and historically). Their dramas for the last five years or so have been terrible though.
February 18, 2011 at 1:31AM ESTJames I noticed the same thing last week when John Oliver said "you're nearing the end of your second year, Jeff..." And I realized that the show is basically half over, and I got sad.
February 18, 2011 at 6:26AM ESTBack during the first season, I was hoping that they'd do one semester a season, so they could reasonably drag it out to eight seasons if they could, but they missed that boat, and unless they slow down time (like some other "school"-based shows), or everyone becomes super-seniors, or they come up with some serious format-altering for the 5th season (which I generally don't believe they'd do), I don't think they can reasonably push it past 4 seasons, which is a shame because this isn't a cult comedy like Arrested Development, it seems like it's one of those ensemble shows that really could last 6-8 years.
Duncan MacLeod Echos, you're the AT&T of this comment thread.
February 18, 2011 at 6:42AM ESTrhys1882 You can get a four year degree at a community college. It's a common misconception that community colleges only offer two year programs. Yes, many people use that option, especially if they have bad high school grades and want to use the two years at community college to get a good GPA so they can transfer. But if someone just wants a simple BA they can stay at the community college.
February 18, 2011 at 6:52PM EST
February 17, 2011 at 9:39PM EST Reply to CommentPerfect summary of the Pierce situation. As Jeff drug him out of the car, my thought was "how do you get back to status quo?" Otherwise, another jaw-dropping comedy epic during a season where they do this every third week.
Brooke @Ken Rhodes - Respect for the non-adjectival usage of the word "epic."
February 20, 2011 at 5:58PM ESTchristy
February 17, 2011 at 9:39PM EST Reply to CommentYeah, I think that's pretty much how I'd react if I met LeVar Burton.
Impressively tight, funny, sweet, smart episode.
Andrew
February 17, 2011 at 9:40PM EST Reply to CommentI've been moving towards the position of Tara Ariano et al at the Extra Hot Great podcast (which I highly recommend): http://extrahotgreat.com/ that Pierce is just obnoxious and the show would be better without him. He really is just an awful person.
That said as you say, this episode was hilarious, mostly because of Donald Glover. Wow.
February 17, 2011 at 9:40PM EST Reply to CommentThis is an episode that is right behind the Chicken fingers and Paintball episode. It was that good. But I do agree, Pierce is getting worse on the show. He has no point anymore. Unless they start up an evil study group to feud with the original study group, I have a hard time seeing them redeeming Pierces character
MechTimber
February 17, 2011 at 9:43PM EST Reply to CommentThat was wonderful! Every moment regarding LeVar Burton was hilarious! More fish for Kunta!
Jason22
February 17, 2011 at 9:43PM EST Reply to CommentThis was a brilliant episode, so funny I can't even believe it nailed every segment, the Donald Glover scenes unbelievable. I want to see if there could be something funnier this entire tv season
Now to what Alan said, I am going to say, I understand what you are talking about, but I am going to trust Dan Harman and the other writers, because they have not let me down yet.
So you are correct that Pierce is a problem, but I have faith these writers will either create a solution, or change the dynamic of the show that fits.
ShayDetta
February 17, 2011 at 9:44PM EST Reply to CommentIntroduced Community to my cousin tonight but he walked out in the middle while I laughed out loud during Troy's crying. Guess I should have shown modern warfare =|
FoundNemo Correct. Modern Warfare is the ultimate Community conversion tool.
February 19, 2011 at 2:53AM ESTBrian Lynch I disagree. You need to know something about the characters for Modern Warfare to work. Comparative Religion is more indicative of what the show is like, requires less knowledge of the characters, and features a magnificent guest performance.
February 22, 2011 at 9:03PM ESTPepe Silvia
February 17, 2011 at 9:45PM EST Reply to CommentCouldn't agree more. After Jeff vowed to give Pierce a beating if his father didn't show, I thought surely his father WOULD show. Once Pierce pulled his final stunt in the car, I thought the only way to resolve the episode would be for him to be completed banished from the group. From an emotional/character-development standpoint, the ending was totally unsatisfying and made no sense for Jeff's character (Pierce cruelly tormenting him is OK because it made him realize he has unresolved issues with his father, huh?). If that's the way Community wants to treat morality and relationships, then I don't think it'll ever be a truly great show (I've already thought some of its resolutions were overly trite in the past).
PierceHater Well said. I hate to say it, but I'm forcing myself to laugh louder and "aww" more than I really feel. (Its really because my girlfriend doesn't like it as much as I do so I have to justify her watching it). The show has gone downhill for sure almost to the point that I only watch it once and not two or three times like I used to. The writers are starting to treat the watchers/fans like so many other shows, like we're idiots. Or maybe they are getting lazy. How is it that will only reward new people to the show but treat its most loyal and I can say it, obsessed fans so badly with the lack of continuity. Would you hang out with Pierce? I know if he did that to me and my friends, I would literally never talk to him again.
February 19, 2011 at 10:04AM ESTGarrett
February 17, 2011 at 9:45PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know if it was intentional, but the Death/Britta confusion reminded me of the similar knock-knock joke with cancer.
I agree. Based on the interviews, I was expecting this to humanize Pierce a lot more than what we got. At least it was still funny (is that the first time got Donald Glover's stare since he put on the pharoah headdress?).
ed w
February 17, 2011 at 9:45PM EST Reply to CommentIntentionally or not, this episode made a good case that the show would be better off if it was always filmed this way.
VisionOn This show isn't made for documentary format. Community is the least real sitcom on air. It exists in a universe of the surreal. Filming it in anyway approaching reality and being sincere about it would shackle it's imaginary and satirical possibilities.
February 17, 2011 at 11:00PM ESTDo you think the paintball episode or the zombie episode could work as a "real" show?
ed w What makes Community the last real sitcom on the air?
February 18, 2011 at 12:27AM ESTandcap Not last real, "least real."
February 18, 2011 at 1:22AM ESTBrendan
February 17, 2011 at 9:45PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know Alan, Pierce flailing around on the ground screaming and crying showed him as being so utterly pathetic and hopeless, I can buy the group giving him a mulligan on this one. Especially because his attempts to torture them resulted in the characters coming to really upbeat personal conclusions, like Jeff realizing he does have Daddy-issues, and Britta realizing that she is a good person. I was in the same place you are right after the D & D episode, where I honestly couldn't understand why they would ever let him back in the room. I think this episode at least put him back in the general direction of redemption.
I would also add Glover's freak out in the snack room as one of his finest moments on the show.
VisionOn The only thing I took from this episode was the very minor admission from Pierce at the end where he was lying on the floor and says "good point" when Jeff tells him he's only achieving the reverse effect with his mind games. Hopefully that will steer that character back on course next week.
February 17, 2011 at 10:56PM ESTMatt
February 17, 2011 at 9:47PM EST Reply to CommentAre they setting up killing Pierce off? That's the only way out of the situation at this point.
Shepard I had that exact reaction to this episode. I could definitely see them killing him off in the season finale.
February 19, 2011 at 12:49AM ESTcrumdawg97 They've dug the Pierce hole deep enough that I desperately hoped he had died when they showed them at the end of the previous episode. In fact, it almost seems the writers have gone out of their way to make us want Pierce dead. Hopefully that fate still awaits him.
February 20, 2011 at 2:19AM ESTklg19
February 17, 2011 at 9:47PM EST Reply to CommentAgreed agreed agreed from beginning to end, Alan. I, too, was waiting, at the beginning, for the whole Pierce nightmare to be pill-induced: heck, his description of aliens and such set it up. Turning the set-up into an extended Pierce revenge exercise seems to have brought his character to the edge of a cliff and I don't see where it can go from there.
But geez, the rest of the episode! Sheer bliss! I not only had to pause the show to recover from laughter repeatedly, I had to pause reading this review to recover from laughing repeatedly. It was all just So Damn Good.
But we've now had three straight Pierce-is-hateful episodes, haven't we? Something's got to give. I just don't want it to be the show's integrity.
February 17, 2011 at 9:49PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know. I think when Annie gave him her reasons for returning the tiara, that did have an impact on Pierce. And you could say that, since the group tends to follow Jeff's lead, and Jeff was in Pierce's hospital room, they wouldn't kick him out over his objections. Whether Jeff was there out of remorse for hitting Pierce, that may not matter.
remy
February 17, 2011 at 9:51PM EST Reply to CommentI think that they'll never get rid of him so the rest of the group will just put up with him. At this point he's a part of their "family" and with how old he is he won't change.
February 17, 2011 at 9:52PM EST Reply to CommentFirst off: The timing of this episode couldn't have been worse for those who are mad at you for being too hard on "Modern Family" while loving on "Community" -- especially considering you posted today how you're giving up on one and had advanced knowledge of the other. Like a tough combination punch.
As for the episode itself? I loved it. I continue to be impressed by how effortlessly this show foreshadows future episodes by mentioning Jeff's estranged father by name a few weeks back in the Dungeons and Dragons episode or by referencing Fat Neil a few times before his episode. Or when Rowboat Cop Abed noted the future story lines involving both his mother and Troy's birthday.
Accordingly, I've had faith in their handling of Pierce's story arc. I can agree that it hasn't gone as flawlessly as I'd have liked, but I can see this somewhat as a telling of Pierce's side. (Of all sides, really, thanks to Abed's documentation.) His truth is out there and the group probably does too often take advantage of him. And he's proven -- if nothing else -- at least adept at understanding who these people are around him. And there is something redeeming about that. Probably my favorite Pierce-centric episode ever.
The absence of Chang was a relief. It's unfortunate that Ken Jeong and Chevy Chase -- who often seem like the names the show most often promotes -- are playing the characters that, for lack of a better word, are the least essential to the show. So I appreciate restraint when an episode does not really require their presence at all.
FFC I was wondering how long it would take for someone to gratuitously mention Modern Family in response to this review. My over under was 45 minutes.
February 17, 2011 at 10:01PM ESTHWay Why is it so important to you to know that daddy loves your show most?
February 18, 2011 at 2:55AM EST
Gratuitously? The episode seemed to be directly referencing a competing show, so much so that even Alan commented on it in his review. And I found the timing with his earlier announcement interesting -- and perhaps unfortunate.
February 18, 2011 at 10:01AM ESTAnyway, I don't care which show he loves most, but I do like reading his reviews of any show I watch. This includes both Community and Modern Family.
February 17, 2011 at 9:52PM EST Reply to CommentStill think chase is gone from the cast by the end of the season
Kevin
February 17, 2011 at 9:53PM EST Reply to CommentInteresting take, I definitely agree that pierce has gotten too angry and malicious, starting with the trampoline episode. The episodes before that, he would either be insulting but without the malicious attitude or his actions would be given a deeper meaning that reconciled them in the end.
But in the trampoline episode, he destroys it because he was left out, and is physically punished but doesn't seem to learn anything from it and the viewer doesn't feel any better about what he did. The D&D episode was almost painful to watch (although still hilarious) just because Pierce came off as so cruel and we were left without seeing him come to any understanding of how wrong he was acting, only that he lost the game.
In the end, I would agree that Pierce doesn't seem like he belongs in the group anymore and I wonder if they might be setting him up for an impending departure. I love Chevy Chase and have enjoyed the job he's done for the show, but I find myself more and more unwilling to forgive Pierce as his character evolves, and I don't know that any one episode will redeem him.
I love the show and everything else is fantastic. But Pierce is definitely the one aspect of the show that really nags at me.
Chrissy Just to play devil's advocate, let's consider Pierce's side. The two members of the group he most wants to relate to find a wonderful thing (the trampoline) and don't share it with him. When he finds it and hurts himself, no one really seems that upset. They rip off his casts because they think he stole a pen, they forget his birthday, they try to keep him from having a big role in their play (even though the audience loves him). They not only don't invite him to their game, they invite a guy they ostensibly hate and another loser they used to make fun of. They try to help that guy, but none of them seem to care about how Pierce feels. Which wouldn't be so bad (no one has ever cared how Pierce feels) but they constantly talk about how they're a family and the importance of the group.
February 17, 2011 at 11:59PM ESTFrom Pierce's perspective, these may appear to be people who claim to care but don't really; in other words, liars. From that angle, forcing them to face some truths might seem like utterly poetic justice.
I don't know, we're all looking for some resolution to Pierce's actions, but I wonder if that's even possible without selling out Pierce's character a bit.
why cant i post? just to play reality. he threatens and then ruins something his friends love. no need to feel bad for the results of him being a terrible person. they all treated each other far worse than the cast thing in that ep before FINALLY going to the person who is the most likely to do something terrible like torture others by not admitting a mistake. ok, i admit they forgot his bday. then he bribes and manipulates the youngest and most desperate person in the group after seeing the horrible situation she was stuck in, then uses the fact he has money to make her miserable and completely mess her up and ruin her play to help people so they wouldnt end up like her just so he could be a selfish bastard. then he intentionally tries to make a suicidal person commit suicide. all of these were from HIS perspective.
February 18, 2011 at 2:14AM ESTok, it worked and since the "reply to comment" actually worked this time. i still love the show and found this episode hilarious but claiming he had reason to be such a terrible person argument still doesnt make sense to me
February 18, 2011 at 2:24AM ESTCraig
February 17, 2011 at 9:55PM EST Reply to CommentIf this is a just universe, Donald Glover will land a role in a comedy film a la Ed Helms in The Hangover and become a big star off of it.
I guess my question about Pierce is this - would anyone miss him if he was written out? I think about the other 6 characters, and even Chang, and I think the show would be lesser for losing them. But take Chevy Chase out of Community and, honestly, I think it would be at least as good if not better. He always felt, to me at least, like the Big Name that they hooked in order to get the show on the air rather than someone who was integral to the ensemble.
Boo I agree. Losing Chevy wouldn't hurt the show at all, and may actually make it better...although I'd hate to think of a Chevy-less episode of Dungeons and Dragons.
February 18, 2011 at 12:21AM EST
February 17, 2011 at 9:57PM EST Reply to CommentStill think Chevy will be off the show by end of season
marcusmash
February 17, 2011 at 9:59PM EST Reply to CommentTotally agree. Especially on the "Pierce Issue". At the beginning of the episode I thought, "Pierce is faking," and then "crap, this makes 3 of the last 4 episodes where Pierce is either an ass or maliciously evil." I think it's definitely a problem. I know you can't fit a humorless, savage beating into a show like this but I really wanted Jeff to go through with his threat when he ran down that car. I had a similar feeling during the D&D episode when Jeff and Pierce were talking in the hallway. Most people would have punched Pierce in the face at that point. There really is no clear reason why the group wants to spend any time with him. We can only assume he's a lot nicer at home or Troy would have moved out by now. I recognize how great this episode was but thinking about what Pierce has become definitely detracted for me. Though, I still laughed quite hard at everything Donald Glover did.
Boo I had always hoped they'd do an episode set in Pierce's house with Troy. I'd love to see what's going on there. Sometimes I think the college aspect can be a bit stifling.
February 18, 2011 at 12:24AM ESTDoogolas
February 17, 2011 at 10:13PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know that I agree with you about the Pierce thing. I think they did start digging him out of the hole. No, it's not completely fixed, but I have a feeling they have an ace in the hole. I don't think Pierce initially realized how hurt Jeff was by his dad. And so I think that phone call he made was him actually calling Jeff's dad to tell him not to show up and he was willing to take the pounding that came with that decision.
Then the fact he was hospitalized and Jeff went apecrap on him and they at least get why he's been acting like such a wang between the pills and feeling like everybody hates him, they laid the groundwork for him being redeemed by the group.
cal You might have a point, but I would have to find out that he really did call Jeff's dad.
February 17, 2011 at 10:22PM ESTOne great thing about this episode was all the callbacks to previous incidents in the group. The writers are honoring what happened before so I am more willing to trust that they will solve the Pierce Dilemma in an acceptable way.
magreen17
February 17, 2011 at 10:18PM EST Reply to CommentI'm still waiting to see about Pierce. This group of writers seems smart, I have trouble believing they'd let Pierce get this unlikeable for no reason. I think we're still on the way to something.
Alan, I followed a little bit of this discussion on whether episodic reviews are good/bad/whatever. I'm curious if, by season's end, this particular episode of Community will be like one tree in the metaphorical forest. (but I like your weekly reviews, I'm not making a case about that)
Starburns
February 17, 2011 at 10:18PM EST Reply to CommentYou guys need to calm down on the whole Pierce thing. None of you have EVER had friends or acquaintances that you really couldn't stand for 95% of the time you were around them, but because of the other 5% of the time you couldn't just get rid of them?
I mean have any of you really ever told a friend, "look you're really mean, I can't be friends with you anymore".
That isn't realistic. Pierce is funny as hell in his off color comments and mean spirit-ness. Is the study group really going to dump a lonely old man off like he's garbage? Of course not.
Doesn't mean they won't talk bad about him from time to time and mess with him, but they aren't just going to abandon him.
He might be a crotchety, lonely, old son of a bitch, but he is their crotchety, lonely, old son of a bitch.
Hope he hangs around for as long as the series is on.
Liz "None of you have EVER had friends or acquaintances that you really couldn't stand for 95% of the time you were around them, but because of the other 5% of the time you couldn't just get rid of them?"
February 17, 2011 at 11:37PM ESTNo. Why would I want to spend time with someone who's so awful?
"I mean have any of you really ever told a friend, "look you're really mean, I can't be friends with you anymore"."
Yes. What's so unbelievable about that?
Blarghly Yes, I have told people they were too mean and I couldn't deal with them anymore. I would 100% tell them exactly that if they pretended that my estranged family member was coming to see me after decades of absence, really convinced me it was so, and then disappointed and humiliated me. That's outside the universe of what a friend or a frenemy would do. That's outright hateful and cruel. It is realistic to not only beat the crap out of that person, if you are so inclined, but to completely shun them. Just imagine yourself as Jeff-- would you want to see Pierce again or study with him? Would you just put up with him? This isn't being a jerk in a D&D game (though I know people who have stopped being friends over just that), this is deeply personal, painful stuff. You'd have to be a real doormat to gloss over it, and Jeff isn't.
February 18, 2011 at 12:00AM ESTThat said, this isn't a show about realism by any stretch, so we have to willingly suspend disbelief and accept that they forgive Pierce and tolerate him. I don't like it, and I think it's bad writing. The ONLY part of the show that I don't love, because I do love this show.
Donna THIS. I bet lots of people have a Pierce. Someone who drives you crazy, but for whatever reasons is still included in the group. Someone who drives you to the verge of being done with them, but then does something nice and you feel guilty. I don't think it would be easy to tell someone they can't be a part of your group anymore.
February 18, 2011 at 12:27AM ESTChrissy If they kicked Pierce out of the group (however that would work), it's not like he'd drop out of school. They'd see him all the time, and it would be unbearable. Troy lives with the guy!
February 18, 2011 at 12:42AM ESTAlso, this is a show about family, even though they're not related. Just as you can't unrelate yourself to people, they can't cut Pierce loose. It would undermine the show's basic theme.
BlueChip Agreed. Any group of 7 is always going to have one that nobody is quite sure how he got there, and life would be easier if he wasn't, but on he stays. And every group has the one person that is universally scorned (and ripped behind his back, unlike Shirley). I'm old enough to dislike Chevy Chase as Chevy Chase, but he adds a dimension to the group that would be sorely missed.
February 19, 2011 at 9:32PM ESTpamelajaye >I mean have any of you really ever told a friend, "look you're really mean, I can't be friends with you anymore".
April 10, 2011 at 12:50AM ESTAbsolutely. And then she went on to stalk me for 6 years.
Okay, I didn't say it in the same words that you set out, but I definitely did say it. It was more like
Her: If you continue doing X, our friendship will be over.
Me: Our friendship was over last Tuesday when you did X.
It was very liberating. I'd never done that before.
February 17, 2011 at 10:23PM EST Reply to CommentI don't think Pierce was as bad as the D&D because he didn't say he RAPED Neil's family, not once, but twice.
Fred Smith That was all in the context of a fake role play-- it wasn't Neil's family, it was his character's family. What he did to Jeff was about Jeff's real family, and touched on some obviously decades old pain. Unforgivable.
February 18, 2011 at 12:03AM ESTRyan
February 17, 2011 at 10:24PM EST Reply to CommentIf Pierce was really tormenting Jeff wouldn't he just not have the car show up? or have it show up empty? It actually came across like he couldn't find Jeff's father so he had to improvise and pretend to wave and leave. Now obviously this is really stupid but Pierce is a smart or subtle character. Also, Troy and Annies bequeathments weren't mind games at all. Britta's was kind of, but even then not entirely cruel nor was Shirley's. I guess I just didn't get the innate cruelty that everyone else did.
Ralf Troy explicitly told Pierce that he never wanted to meet LeVar Burton, only have a picture, b/c you can't disappoint a picture. So yes, it was torture to have LeVar Burton show up, as the show very clearly illustrated. Annie he wasn't torturing b/c she's his favorite. Not sure how you could say Shirley's wasn't cruel. She spent the whole episode sure that everyone was talking tons of smack about her behind her back. Britta, well, she needed that corrective, but it was still the exact kind of dilemma that would mess with her mind.
February 18, 2011 at 12:06AM ESTJeff was obviously totally tormented... did you watch the same episode I did?
Boo Pierce probably figured Troy would step up. And Shirley's was a positive thing for her...she's the one who made the incorrect assumption, that's her own dumb fault.
February 18, 2011 at 12:29AM ESTCaleb Ryan - You really misread that scene with Jeff's "Dad." After Jeff told Pierce that at the first hint of a game on Pierce's part Jeff would beat him, Pierce fumbled his paper out of his hands and grabbed the phone hurredly to make a call (and he fumbled with the phone as well). Clearly he was scared about what would happen when his plan continued.
February 18, 2011 at 3:24AM ESTBritta likes helping others, but is also about to be evicted because she has no money. So Pierce gives her a blank check telling her to give it to charity, and then mentions she could just keep it (tormenting her with the choice of giving away money she needs or keeping it at the expense of others who may be less fortunate and thereby rocking her world view).
Shirley gets the tape. She can either not listen to it (in that case believing that either the whole group is awful towards her if she trusts what Pierce has said is on the tape or that Pierce is awful if she sides with the group) or she can choose to listen to it (and then not only be mad that Pierce played games with her but also be mad at herself for doubting her friends)
Ralf covered Troy.
What would Pierce have to do for you to think he was cruel?
Chrissy I'm really not on Pierce's side here, but I think we're all throwing the word "torture" around like it has no meaning. He told Shirley the gang talks about her behind her back and then gave her a CD proving that's not true. He gave Brita 10,000 dollars. Granted, his intentions were not nice, but those characters "tortured" themselves.
February 18, 2011 at 10:06AM ESTThe Jeff thing was pretty shitty, I don't have anything there. Pierce is a dick, for sure. I just think there's a bit of hyperbole going around.
RobP When this season is over, I think we'll totally be able to point to this episode as being the beginning of Pierce's redemption. He may have been selfish in his actions, and he may be able to justify them to an extent, but he really does know these people and he tried to get them to see what he sees -- not "torture" them. He sees Shirley's guilt trips, so he sends her on the biggest guilt trip of all, and she learns something about herself; she can now change for the better. As can Britta, who now knows she needs to think more about herself before worrying so much about others (all the time). Troy needs to grow the eff up, and Pierce was trying to get him there by thrusting Troy's hero in his face: Get used to disappointment, kid, that's life (but, hey, maybe LeVar Burton wouldn't have been a disappointment, and he'd learn not to be so scared). Annie and Abed are already fairly well-adjusted, selfless characters, so Pierce has no lessons to teach them.
February 18, 2011 at 6:18PM ESTJeff, however, is a different matter. I do think Pierce was trying to help Jeff, but I don't think he knew Jeff nearly as well as he thought. In the end, Pierce helped him, anyway, albeit inadvertantly. I am curious to know who he called...
Anyway. All that leads to the path of character redemption. The others HAVE to help him, though, like he did for them. He can't do it alone, and I think he knows that, which is why he sticks around, even though from his perspective, they don't understand well or treat him with a lot respect.
I believe in Dan Harmon. And, for one, would be highly disappointed if Chevy left.
Chang >Begins the slow clap for ROBP<
February 18, 2011 at 6:48PM ESTfloretbroccoli
February 17, 2011 at 10:31PM EST Reply to CommentYou are quite right. But all I can hear in my head is "set phasers to love me."
February 17, 2011 at 10:34PM EST Reply to CommentI guess I'm the only one who found this episode to be a bit of a disappointment. Just wasn't that funny.
FFC You're not the only one. I didn't laugh once.
February 17, 2011 at 10:37PM ESTReviewBoard 2 out of 30 ain't bad, Harmon.
February 17, 2011 at 10:48PM ESTRyan @FFC I don't think I've ever read a positive comment from you. Now its possible you've said a few and I just missed them, but most of the time you seem to complain about the show. Do you like it at all? An episode you thought was perfectly hilarious?
February 17, 2011 at 11:03PM EST- 1
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