Review: 'Breaking Bad' - 'End Times': An appropriate reponse?
The murder plots mount in a fantastically tense episode
Walt (Bryan Cranston) has a plan on "Breaking Bad."
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A review of tonight's "Breaking Bad" coming up just as soon as I have a dollar for every time I hear about Nazi Germany...
"I have lived under the threat of death for a year now. Because of that, I've made choices. Listen to me. I alone should suffer the consequences of those choices. No one else. And those consequences, they're coming. No more prolonging the inevitable." -Walt
Well, maybe just a little bit longer, Walt.
"Breaking Bad" is a show about a man with a death sentence. As with most legal death sentences, though, we've had time to wait between pronouncement of sentence and execution of it - four years in the real world, around one in Walt's - as Walt has gone through various cancer treatments and cheated what seems like 17 different murder attempts. And because Bryan Cranston is so good, and because Vince Gilligan and the rest of the creative team so effective at building and sustaining tension while constantly pushing the story forward, it rarely feels like they're stalling the inevitable. Maybe the series ends with the death of Walter White, and maybe not, but I've never felt cheated that we're not at that moment quite yet, even as Gus, Tuco, the Cousins, Krazy-8, et al have all tried to do what the lung cancer couldn't on its own. (Not yet, anyway.)
"End Times" is another brilliant, knuckle-whitening example of that phenomenon. We know intellectually that Walt isn't going to die here, whether by Jesse's hands or by someone else's. (Tyrus has been looking to put a bullet in Walt for half the season, it seems.) And though it seems that Walt and Gus can't co-exist any longer, we can probably guess that Gus isn't going to die with an episode to go in the season. ("The Wire" and "The Sopranos" loved to put their big dramatic climaxes in the penultimate episode, but Gilligan has always pushed the plot as hard as he can as deep into the finale as possible.) And yet the scene where Jesse is the one who knocks for Walt is almost unbearably tense; Aaron Paul is so phenomenal in the moment that you can almost imagine him pulling the trigger in a fit of indignant rage, and the show reinventing itself as The Jesse Pinkman Story. And even though I didn't expect Walt to successfully blow up Gus's car - as I've said before, when has a Walter/Jesse assassination attempt ever gone according to plan? - I still caught my breath when Gus stopped himself and went to look out of the parking garage.(*)
(*) I was discussing this episode with Time's James Poniewozik, and he said he wished Jesse had given more of a tell to Gus when they met in the hospital chapel, rather than Gus suddenly developing a Spidey-sense at the worst possible moment. I see his point, but it also seems like Gus has turned into a super-criminal by now - as Walt tells Jesse in his house, Gus has cameras everywhere, knows everything and has always been 10 steps ahead of them - so while this was skirting the edges of plausibility, the Chicken Man has already displayed many super powers.
As befits an episode with an apocalyptic title like "End Times," this was an hour (written by Thomas Schnauz and Moira Walley-Beckett, and directed by Gilligan himself) tinged with dread. The music was ominous throughout, the camera so often in tight on Walt or Jesse - and, in the case of the hospital scene where Jesse tells Andrea about the ricin, constantly on the move with them - and the sound and pictures absolutely created the sense that something horrible was going to happen. (It didn't help my sense of unease that Walt disappeared for a large chunk of the episode, in between Walt spinning his gun by the pool and Jesse showing up to accuse him of poisoning Brock; who know what Walt was up to, or whether he was just frozen and waiting to die?) Walt said what he believed to be his final goodbyes to Skyler and Holly, and didn't even get a chance to do the same with his son. Saul packed up to skip town as quickly as possible. The mood of the whole episode was so damn dark that I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if, moments after she stepped out onto the balcony of Hank and Marie's house for a calming cigarette, Skyler had been shot between the eyes by a Gus-employed sniper.
And then Chekhov's Ricin Cigarette, which we'd all but forgotten about these past few weeks as Jesse's loyalty shifted from Walt to Gus, came back in the worst possible way, with Jesse once again inadvertently setting things in motion for Gus to order the death of a child related to Andrea.(**) Though it might be interesting for the culprit to be ambiguous - for Jesse to have no one to blame but himself - the chain of custody timeline Jesse lays out for Walt makes it pretty clear that someone had to fish the cigarette out of the pack while he was at the Super Lab, and this is pretty diabolical (and slightly convoluted) even by Gustavo Fring standards. He spent a long time underestimating the loyalty Walt and Jesse had for each other, but he camethisclose to finding a way to trick one into murdering the other, and what does he care if some little boy is collateral damage in the salvation of his empire and destruction of his most troublesome opponent?
(**) As the CDC website explains, there is no antidote for ricin.There are ways to treat the symptoms of the poisoning, but if it's been ingested in the way that Tyrus or one of Gus's other goons presumably got it into Brock's food, I wouldn't put his survival odds very high.
So what now? If this was the final season, I would be prepared for anything and everything to hit the fan a week from tonight. Knowing that there are 16 episodes to go takes some of the suspense away, at least on the Walt end of things (and almost certainly with Jesse), and seems to point to Gus going down (likely the result of the kind of desperate last-minute improv that killed Tuco, the Cousins, etc.), but it sure looks like Walt just missed his best possible window for doing that.
Whatever happens, though? Damn, this has been an incredible stretch run for the fourth season.
Some other thoughts:
• Loved seeing Hank once again be smarter than anyone gives him credit for and realizing immediately that the reported cartel hit was just a smokescreen to keep him away from the laundry. And nice to see Gomez be so persuasive and clever in talking his way past the laundry manager, even if he understandably didn't spot the switch to open the trap door into the Super Lab.
• Hank and Marie's balcony, by the way? Very cool, and great view. Surprised this is the first time we've seen it, though I suppose for the most part the show either films the driveway of that house or on interior sets. May have required special dispensation from the homeowners.
• Paul was fantastic in the Walt/Jesse confrontation scene, but Cranston was no slouch himself, from the paternal way he spoke as Walt tried to explain why he wouldn't have poisoned Brock to the defiant, almost eager look on his face when he pulled the gun to his forehead. Walt has made so many decisions out of blind self-preservation, but his early conversation with Skyler suggested a man who had finally accepted, perhaps even welcomed, the prospect of death rather than more running, more crime, more chance for his loved ones to suffer for his sins.
What did everybody else think?
Alan Sepinwall may be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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About This Blog
All through his childhood, Alan Sepinwall's relatives told his parents, "All that boy does is watch television! How's he going to make a living doing that?" His career as a TV critic has been 15 years and counting of his attempt to answer their concerns. "What's Alan Watching" is a blog whose title is self-explanatory: Alan watches TV shows, then writes about what he watched. He can be reached at sepinwall@hitfix.com
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Next 785 Commentsryanw
October 2, 2011 at 11:02PM EST Reply to Commenti almost cried before jesse put the pieces together. NO WORDS DO THAT SCENE JUSTICE. but the team is back together! (how gus knew is beyond me)
Amazing......have to go watch it again right now
October 2, 2011 at 11:49PM ESTDaniel
October 2, 2011 at 11:05PM EST Reply to CommentI don't know how you can be okay with Gus developing Spidey-senses. That was just too much.
NotDaniel The show has earned enough goodwill in my book that I'm willing to wait a week for an explanation.
October 2, 2011 at 11:07PM ESTAndrew Yeah, Jesse didn't give him anything to go on at all. He just all of a sudden noticed something?
October 2, 2011 at 11:08PM ESTEarl Doom Keep in mind, he's likely one of Pinochet's people. Car bombings were probably something he COULD sniff out by the time he left Chile, and those instincts kinda don't go away. Plus, we don't know if he has Walter's house bugged and thus, already knew that they had figured it out and were planning something.
October 2, 2011 at 11:14PM ESTasdf Its a bit of a stretch, but Jesse told Gus that the kid was poisoned, he knew Jesse would blame Walt, and he knew Walt wasn't dead. Being overly cautious seems reasonable in that situation, especially since a car bomb would probably be the easiest way for Walt to kill Gus, since it doesn't require him to get close to Gus.
October 2, 2011 at 11:15PM ESTI'll admit, its a bit of stretch, but it doesn't seem completely absurd.
Titan_Memento Either Gus was able to piece together why Jesse would force him out to the hospital or maybe Walt poisoned Brock then Gus figured out Walt had set him up to die by using Jesse. Was a bit of a stretch, but Gus is supposed to be extremely clever so I'm willing to accept it either way.
October 2, 2011 at 11:17PM ESTJustin Jordan I'm inclined to agree. Poisoning Brock in that manner was already fairly ridiculuous - it's not so much that Gus doesn't have the means to make that work, but as a plan, it's fairly stupid stuff: Gus needs Jesse to realize that the symptoms are ricin (although I suppose he'd find out eventually) and then needs him to blame Walt for it.
October 2, 2011 at 11:17PM ESTI might be able to roll with that, although it's entirely too circuitous, but when you pair that with Gus developing an apparently psychic sense of danger...
Beyond that, the episode really did feel like filler. The confrontation between Walt and Jesse was riveting, yeah, but undercut by the nature of the plan.
The thing is, all of this could have been avoided by working a little harder in the writing - having Jesse inadvertantly give Gus some indication, establihing that Gus knew about the ricin, or even showing Tyrus screwing around with Jesse's locker.
But as executed, it feels weak.
Warwick I assumed Gus has everyone's house/car/cell phone bugged somehow. Jesse's "Think I got his attention" text would have raised an eyebrow.
October 2, 2011 at 11:18PM ESTBagdf 1) That Jesse didn't tell him that it was Walt that he thought poisoned the kid kind of raises suspicions
October 2, 2011 at 11:18PM EST2) Jesse's phone is probably bugged
cgeye It wasn't Spidey-sense; it was experience.
October 2, 2011 at 11:19PM ESTIf he wasted to assassinate a man who is protected most of the time, wouldn't he draw him out to ground he thought was safe? No killing in the hospital, and none on the way to/from, without his goons laying down suppressive fire -- but that journey to an open-air parking garage? A natural place to leave a car open to tampering, although Gus' arrogance in standing in the perfect spot for sniper fire was a bit much....
I think he became suspicious because he forgot to keep a tail on Walter -- and that Jesse wasn't blaming Walter for using a poison both he and Walter were familiar.
The mere fact that the arrow Gus shot from the bow didn't go to the intended direction was suspicion enough. Gus likes things going to plan, and Jesse neither cooking or seeking vengeance felt off, considering how hotheaded he is....
JH Whole episode seemed convoluted. Poisoning the kid just doesn't make sense as a smart play for Gus. Walt has no motive to go after that kid; why would Gus automatically assume Jesse would blame Walt? Plus, Jesse is the linchpin of his operation; you don't take a 50/50 chance of permanently alienating the only guy who can keep your business running. Walt is a pain for Gus, but he is a pain that can gradually be dealt with while Jesse keeps delivering the batches. Poisoning the kid just to force the action makes a lot more sense for Gilligan and co. to force drama than it does for Gus. Really felt that was a cheap narrative device (think of the children!). Gus has consolidated power and is in good shape with the cartel taken down a few pegs. Why is he going all in on a risky play poisoning a kid?
October 2, 2011 at 11:19PM ESTSN sigh...people will always find something to hate on.. I dread the comments for next season, I'm sure it will just be more and more negativity..
October 2, 2011 at 11:21PM ESTChris H. To be fair, we don't know how many times Gus has pulled this kind of move in the past. Gilligan went to pretty great lengths to show the car was in a secluded area of the parking lot, where nobody would be around to see it. With the hits against the cartel, plus general suspicion surrounding the DEA, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Gus just isn't taking any chances anymore.
October 2, 2011 at 11:22PM ESTDaniel I get that Jesse could have tipped him off, but that would require some incredible leaps in logic. And even though Gus has proven himself to be some kind of super genius/villain, I just have a hard time buying that he'd jump from "Kid was poisoned" to "Walt's going to bomb my car."
October 2, 2011 at 11:23PM ESTAnd if Jesse and Walt were bugged, why not just send some goons to sweep his car, disarm the bomb, and give Walt the middle finger? I'm sure Gus could live without a few goons.
Con Nothing tipped him off, he was contemplating the odd situation with Jesse due to the conversation and the poisoning. Walt did indeed poison the child(perhaps a non lethal dose), and Gus is retreating to talk to Jesse again.
October 2, 2011 at 11:36PM ESTLisa It doesn't make much sense for Gus to poison Brock, he needs to keep to the cook schedule. However, it makes a lot of sense for Walt to be behind this, for all the reasons Jesse accused him. Walt knew about the ricin cigarette, he had an opportunity to get it, and he is the one who is desperate enough to make a convoluted play. He has only one person, Jesse, he can swing to his side and utilize to his advantage. Remember this is a show about Mr. Chips becoming scar face. If Gus is worse than walter, then, at the end of the series Walt isn't really scar face. If you can beat your Meth enemies without forsaking your very soul, then there is no reason to become scar face at all. This is Walt becoming scar face, willing to sacrifice Brock to get at Gus. Gus is suspicious because someone poisoned Brock and now Jesse is acting all rebellious and the cook schedule is messed up. Gus just dealt with everyone else (i.e. the cartel) who wants the process messed with (unless Hector somehow managed to pull off this play), accept the thorn in his side, Walter White. He also likely recalls season 3 when Walter tipped him off that Jesse was going to poison the two guys using kids to sell Meth. He sees things going wrong and, when pondering why, he sees the likely reason- Walter White.
October 2, 2011 at 11:38PM ESTBK When Jesse mentioned poison, there was a look on both Gus and Jesse's faces that gave Gus his tell.
October 2, 2011 at 11:40PM ESTjames I'm thinking the kid may have gotten some of Andrea's drugs. Perhaps Chekhov's Money Roll Jesse gave her hoping she'd use it on starting a new life and not sliding back into drugs. This would be a logical twist.
October 2, 2011 at 11:48PM ESTBrandon Also, Jesse flinched when Gus touched him on the shoulders. You could argue there were enough subtle tells for Gus to wonder if he was being setup.
October 2, 2011 at 11:54PM ESTBMK For what it's worth, I think it's explained well enough on "Inside BB" video on the AMC site. Esposito pointed out that when Jesse said the kid was poisoned, it was a clue to him that something was up. And when he was walking to his car he couldn't shake the thought that the child was poisoned and realized Walt had to be behind everything. Oh shoot, just go watch the video.
October 3, 2011 at 12:19AM ESTmilaxx Maybe I'm reaching here, but I think Gus may have seen a slight reflection of Walt's glasses on his car. Couple that with the pesky problem of Walt/Jesse's loyalty to each other and I think Gus decided that this might be a Walt/Jess trap. paranoia? sure, but not that far fetched considering Jesse pretty much admitted that he had the poison for Gus.
October 3, 2011 at 12:22AM ESTdavid Guys, think about it. During their coversation, Jesse revealed two things to Gus:
October 3, 2011 at 12:34AM EST1) He revealed that he thinks that Brock was poisoned
2) He revealed that he doesn't suspect that Walt did it (if he suspected Walt, he would have told Gus)
If you were as clever as Gus is, and Jesse lured you out to the hospital and told you that Brock was poisoned and he has no suspects, then you come to the conclusion that he must suspect you (whether or not it was really you who poisoned the child). If I was Gus, I would have wondered if Jesse might be back on Walt's side. There's no way I'm going near that car.
Remy Just to add to what some have said above, it didn't cross my mind that Gus had developed some contrived sense of danger in a Spidey-sense way. Jessie stupidly tipped his hand by mentioning he thought Andrea's son was poisoned. As soon as he said that I thought "No!!!" Why did he tell Gus that?? Then Jessie flinched when Gus touched him. Gus figured out then that Jessie and/or Walt were on to him. Perhaps he didn't know specifically a bomb was in the car but he lingers for awhile thinking it out, and then Gus takes the unpredictable route and chooses to leave the hospital another way just in case.......
October 3, 2011 at 1:04AM ESTKarl I thought most people had that kind of psychic sense. You can usually tell when someone's looking at you, feeling something, no?
October 3, 2011 at 1:11AM ESTTodd I thought Jesse totally gave Gus a tell. Jesse was not hiding his anger towards Gus at all. The rest is simple math for the Chicken Man...Jesse thinks I'm involved and therefore him drawing me here is part of a revenge plot. I could almost believe what others have said here...that maybe Walt could've given Brock a small dose to set this in motion. But Walt didn't appear to have the opportunity to get to the cigarettes.
October 3, 2011 at 1:27AM ESTkbailey3131 If I'm as clever as Gus is and as 15 steps ahead as Gus is, I don't drive my own car to the hospital and park it in some secluded area of the garage. I had a problem with the spidey-sense of that scene but have been trying to rationalize it to see if there's a way it didn't shake down that simplistically. My read definitely was that he was returning to talk to Jesse. Did Tyrus and unnamed other dude park on another level? Where else would Gus be going but back to the hospital to do something else.
October 3, 2011 at 2:34AM ESTThe ricin cigarette was odd and the poisoning an even odder play, which is why I'm still holding out for something else to have been wrong with Brock. That's why I thought Gus might have been hinky after Jesse tells him what he thought...and would have made the spidey sense more plausible at that point. It would have given Gus the idea that Walter White has hit the point of no return now and doesn't care about collateral damage and driving wedges between Gus and Jesse.
JasonK Why should we assume that it was "Spidey Sense" that prevented Gus from getting in the car. This show loves misdirection. Perhaps Gus is merely walking back to the hospital to have another conversation with Jesse? Walt figures that Gus sniffed out his plans, and leaves his rooftop position by the time Gus returns. Wouldn't this make more sense given the comedy of errors that has taken place every time Jesse and Walt plan an assassination?
October 3, 2011 at 3:35AM ESTMathias Paul is so great that he even has a special look when he's hating someone, and that look was on Jesse's eyes when talking with Gus. That and the flinching might have give Gus a heads up about something going on. I mean, deep down, Gus might expect for Walt to try to make at least a move. I don't buy the fact that he was expecting their conversation in the desert to be enough, as Walt realized he couldn't be killed right now.
October 3, 2011 at 6:37AM ESTIt was not a spider sense, it was instinct.
A guy who has the foresight to set up a mini hospital in the Mexican desert with blood for all 3 of them has to be given credit for being a man who anticipates circumstances in advance. Vince showed Gustavo thinking it through and working it out enough to take alternate transportation. The fact that the guy shows up in such an unassuming vehicle to begin with shows how his mind works. Jessie being driven out to the desert in a truck bed so he won't be tailed driving off the lot is even more set up for Gus' anticipation of a possible next move by Walt. I never feel cheated by this show (unlike, say, Sons of Anarchy that routinely creates ridiculous moves by its players.
October 3, 2011 at 7:52AM ESTmwilhe01 I think the Inside BB video for this episode does a good job of explaining who did what to whom.
October 3, 2011 at 10:10AM ESTBrandon I'd just like to point out that we don't know for sure that Gus poisoned Brock.
October 3, 2011 at 11:06AM ESTKronicfatigue --A guy who has the foresight to set up a mini hospital in the Mexican desert with blood for all 3 of them---
October 3, 2011 at 11:32AM ESTYeah, but he wasn't smart enough to have a spare car waiting for him, or even asking the doctor to drive him down the road 6 miles. Nope, that scene required them walking, b/c walking after surgery is so manly!
I'm surprised that people keep writing in off-camera explanation for the plot holes. That scene was what it was...spidey sense. And if he was such an evil genius, then why did he twirl his mustache when telling Walter his plans to kill Hank? Oh, that's right, readers concluded that he was just so emotional from taking down the cartel.
squeak I kind of thought the shot as Walt slumps down looking dejected lingered a little bit on his glasses, and there might be some implication that he saw the sun glinting off them and could guess that someone was watching him.
October 3, 2011 at 11:41AM ESTJoseph I also never for a moment thought that Gus knew because of "spidey-sense". I definitely felt Jesse blew it during his conversation with Gus, especially when he said the doctors "didn't know" how Brock got poisoned. The way he said it, with obvious anger and through gritted teeth, plus the way he recoiled slightly when Gus touched him, would definitely give it away to someone as smart and cautious as Gus.
October 3, 2011 at 12:13PM ESTSlam Note to Peter Haley _ Great call on Sons of Anarchy. I watch every episode, but some of the shenanigans they get away with is cartoonish.
October 3, 2011 at 1:32PM ESTRicin Cigarette In the Inside Breaking Bad Episode 412, Esposito says about Gus starting at 3:27, then a clue happens. [Jesse tells Gus the boy was poisoned]...As he's leaving, Gus keeps hearing, the boy was poisoned...Cranston says, we realize Gus knows that Walt is trying to impede the progress of grooming Jesse... Esposito says, Gus knows there's complicity on Jesse's part... So BB is officially telling us how Gus knew about the car bomb, AND that Gus didn't poison Brock.
October 3, 2011 at 3:37PM ESTJoseph Right, I was thinking the exact same thing. The show has taken pains to tell us that Ricin poisoning will make death look like it was caused by a heart attack, or some other natural causes. There is no way the doctors would know the boy was poisoned unless someone told them, and no one could have told them but Jesse. So the fact that Jesse knew about the poisoning, didn't kill Walt, and caused Gus to be led to a place where he could be "gotten to" would all cause alarm bells to go off. This is a man who, through carfeul planning and extreme patience, outsmarted and took down the entire Mexican cartel. There is no way he would be outsmarted by one of Jesse and Walt's plans.
October 3, 2011 at 4:37PM ESTRob The way he took down the cartel was totally implausible. Any time a potential enemy gives you a gift to ingest, obviously, DON'T ingest it!
October 3, 2011 at 10:29PM ESTElevation I thought the episode was great up until Gus just staring out of the parking garage and not walking to the car. That just came across as something James Bond would do. It just wasn't believable.
October 3, 2011 at 10:46PM ESTI thought the giving the ricin to the baby plan was a bit of a stretch also.
Scott
October 2, 2011 at 11:09PM EST Reply to CommentI wonder how Mike is going to fit into the series finale, seeing if he makes a healthy recovery from his gunshot wound. It will be interesting to see if he comes back and if his loyalties reside with either Gus or Walt and Jesse. Hell, he could have been the one spying on Walt and that's the reason he knew the car was rigged. Can't wait for the finale.
GarySF I fully expect Mike to return at the most fortuitous moment, to put a bullet in someone when it appears all hope is lost. One of those gunshots from off camera, with a pull back to reveal Mr. Ehrmentraut saving someone's bacon. But whose?
October 3, 2011 at 12:45AM ESTMathias Well, we don't even know if he'll be alive for the SERIES finale =P I surely was expecting Mike to press a barrel against Walt's baldness while he was trying to watch Gus.
October 3, 2011 at 6:40AM ESTgotcha Scott I do not have a good feeling Mike will be back this season. That being said, that's next week. I do hope he recovers for the next season. I think Gus could care less about anyone unless they are of use to him. Mike"s loyalities could be a question to Gus, so maybe Gus will get rid of him. Can you imagine a few weeks ago we liked gus, we hated Walter. Now we know Gus is pure evil. Giancarlo Esposito is one incredible actor amongt many in this show.
October 4, 2011 at 12:29AM ESTtigh66
October 2, 2011 at 11:09PM EST Reply to CommentThey are seriously finding ways to make each episode's ending better then the last. I was completely ready to see Gus blown into a billion pieces, even knowing the failure rate of the great Heisenberg/Pinkman collaborations.
And totally agree with Alan, when Skylar was on the balcony, I was waiting for a sniper to open fire. And then when she asked for a cigarette, I thought it might be foreshadowing for her eventually getting the Ricin cigarette, but guess not.
Issues Reading the comments posted here made me reflect on how meaningless the 'smoking on the blacony' scene was. Unless it was a plant for SKYLER to end up with the ricin cig at some point since none of the evidence really adds up elsewhere regarding the cigarette.
October 3, 2011 at 11:04PM ESTkronicfatigue It was to remind us of the poison cigarette.
October 4, 2011 at 10:47AM ESTJ.P.
October 2, 2011 at 11:09PM EST Reply to CommentFirst time I've ever been disappointed by an episode. That Gus would know about the cigarette, use it to kill this kid Jesse loves, and hope Jesse pins it all on Walt instead of thinking the kid stole it, or making the same logical jumps he did with Walt when he realizes Gus is behind is beyond contrived. So disappointing. I knew it was going to turn into Jesse/Walt vs Gus, but that Gus would actually try such an intricate, comic book type plot is just ridiculous. At least the toppling of the kingpin in Salud was somewhat believable, this was just complete nonsense.
james This was a great recap to my disappointment as well. We've gone from reasonable suspension of belief to full-on Gus ex machina in this episode.
October 2, 2011 at 11:40PM ESTWho knows, if the kid wasn't actually poisoned and if Jesse's cig shows up (maybe it was removed, but kept in "safe keeping" by Tyrus), they can unwind some of this. In a way *this* would be ironic if Walt turns Jesse on Gus not on something he just did, but based on his past actions.
Kendra This is how I feel. I hope it's just a fakeout. Convoluted is the perfect word for it. I don't think this is the way Gus would do it. It's not that I don't think he's capable of hurting a kid, I just think it was a huge leap of logic for Jesse to think Walt was behind it. I can accept it since Jesse isn't in his right state of mind but Gus would be taking a huge gamble to assume that Jesse would make that leap of logic.
October 3, 2011 at 12:14AM EST
@James, I really hope this is the case, and that the kid poisoned himself. Otherwise, this plan is too ridiculous. This is the first time in four seasons I've felt like the storyline went too far into implausibility.
October 3, 2011 at 12:45AM ESTGarySF I think many here are jumping to unwarranted conclusions. Why skewer the producers for a plot twist that may or may not have occurred? We got no compelling proof that Gus was behind Brock's poisoning. So at this point, I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt.
October 3, 2011 at 12:48AM ESTJames @Ryan, I guess we've all "broken bad" as viewers when we want a kid to accidentally poison himself as part of the series we're watching!
October 3, 2011 at 12:52AM EST
Heh.
October 3, 2011 at 1:03AM ESTIreneinidaho While I was watching, I was tied up in knots wondering what would happen and who would survive. But when the ep was over and I could breathe!! I felt it was terribly contrivied. How the hell would Gus know to walk away from his car???
October 3, 2011 at 2:25AM ESTIs this the mark of clever writing -- that you can cause your audience to believe you in the moment, even though when they are out from under your spell they realize that they've been had?
joeyjojo They've set up in the past two episodes that Jesse thinks Walt has led the DEA to the laundromat purely out of spite. The last Jesse saw of him, he got into a deliberate car crash, and then showed up on his front door. And then the next day, he's told that Walt didn't come in and the DEA has shown up. The leap to "Mr. White has gone crazy" isn't that far, especially when Mr. White is the only other person who knew about the ricin. It seems like it's been built to over most of the season.
October 3, 2011 at 3:13AM ESTkronicfatigue This plot makes "everyone in cartel will do a shot of this poison, and we can avoid jesse doing a shot b/c he's an addict, but nobody will remember Mike is standing there too" look almost reasonable by comparison.
October 3, 2011 at 11:36AM EST"I'm going to do this one way or the other"
"then let me help!"
CHEESE. But it doesn't top last week's "He pays my salary" line by the doctor when he refused to spare a single nurse to help Mike.
Joseph First of all, if you were Gus, why would you allow your bodyguard to drink alcohol when you are in the middle of a very hostile environment. If you recall, Don Eladio's bodyguard did not drink either, which is why Mike garroted him. Secondly, if you are the doctor, obviously hired goon Mike comes in a distant second in the pecking order to billionaire drug kingpin Gus.
October 3, 2011 at 12:19PM ESTReally surprised by the backlash. The plot developments this season have been no more or less outlandish than any in prior seasons. The show is hardly "realistic" in the real world sense, but it is certainly consistent with the characters and rules of the world Gilligan et al have created.
joel @kronicfatigue: Wow, give me a break. You must hate this show if you can't see the plausibility in those events. Why do you still bother to watch?
October 3, 2011 at 12:40PM ESTPretty simple, the Don would not bother to share an expensive and rare delicacy with *Gus's* henchman. Gus *proved* it was safe and even worse, Mike is a guero ex-cop. And Jesse is the cook. Why would the Don take any chances with the one guy he knows can successfully cook blue meth? It would be idiotic for him to do so.
And why would the doctor lift a finger to help Gus' henchman, a man he doesn't know from Adam, when he clearly has a close relationship to Gus? If he did, and Gus died, do you think the doctor would expect to live very long?
themanwhowalks I totally agree, this episode "jumped the shark" and was highly disappointing. I have loved virtually every episode, especially this season, and have wondered about some of the "hating" that has been mentioned here regarding some of the episodes. But this epi, I mean really, is this the best you can do to get these two back together? The only reason I will continue to watch, if I do do decide to watch because this epi was soo bad, is because of Sol, Gus and Hank. The Walt/Jesse thing is now official BS. All the while I have been telling friends how good this show is, especially this season, but this epi is total crapee and is giving me a reason NOT to watch TV...
October 3, 2011 at 1:50PM ESTkronicfatigue I watch because there are some excellent scenes that are intense, emotional, and perfectly acted. But the way the dots are connected are sometimes laughable.
October 3, 2011 at 2:13PM ESTIf only half those people take the shot, then Gus is dead. Is there some reason he just doesn't kill people with guns?
The makeshift hospital scene from last week was really bad. They needed to show Gus not valuing anyone's life but his own, and Jesse realizing that. But, how they get there is convoluted. The doctors open the front seat to look at Mike. Only to ignore him and go in the back to get Gus. In reality, Gus and Mike look different enough to be able to tell that from outside the car. But we need that moment of confusion from Jesse. "wait, what about him?" Then, just in case the audience is slow to the take, we need 6-8 people working on gus and NOBODY working on Mike. The added value of that last nurse probably isn't that high, but could be huge to Mike. Mike has SOME value to Gus. We need Jesse to slowly realize how far ahead Gus thinks, so we have the blood bags. However, wouldn't it make more sense, from as self incriminating perspective, to have the bags labeled as "B+" instead of "Pinkerman" (i realize I may be off on names in this rant, my apologies).
Then, to top it off, we need big bad Gus choosing to walk 6 miles. Call a cab! (I'm kidding, he should have had a car waiting for him, or used one of the doc's).
Jesse's downward spiral led to some great scenes, but it's laughable that a suburban house can turn into a crazy Meth den w/o anyone making a peep. And the house turns into chaos, but the speakers are fine. And Jesse can "make it rain" and the addicts will act like animals, but not once do they just tackle him for the big wad of cash he's flaunting around. Except for that one guy in that one scene.
Jesse learned how to make the Meth by watching. Adn now Gus "needs" Jesse and lets Jesse dictate plans for "Mr. White"? Kill one, and put a gun to the back of the other's head while saying "teach me this recipe exactly, or i will kill the kids you care about". Done and Done. This poison cig. thing, however it plays out, is bad bad bad.
Walter had all this money for an escape plan, but that money disapears. The wife gives it away on just the same day that he needs it, and oh yeah, that guy just so happened to die by accident that day. Why did that guy get up to run? Where was he going? And why didn't that huge guy try and stop him? All so we can have a hands-free death that was just an excuse to erase the money. And oh yeah, the orange=death cliche.
Every episode has about the best 20 minutes of TV I will see that week. It's the other stuff that is a real head scratcher. We had two silent twins throw a match at a truck only to have it blow up while they slowly walked away. Can you get more cliched than that? And they would sit in silence at the chicken store for days. This show is two shows in one.
Rufus Jones This plot development simply doesn't work-- it's amazingly bad writing in the LOST-24 variety.
October 3, 2011 at 2:14PM ESTLet's assume Walt's presentation of facts about how Ricin works is correct in the BREAKING BAD universe, and not confuse things by quoting the CDC. That is, it takes several days to develop symptoms, you die from what appears to be the flu in 3-5 days, there is no antidote and it isn't detectable.
SO WHEN WAS THE KID POISONED?
It couldn't have been the day the DEA searched the lab. Not enough time for the symptoms to develop to the point where Mom gets worried enough to take the kid to the hospital. Remember, it behaves like the flu for several days.
So that means Gus didn't have it done after delivering his "appropriate measures will be taken" speech to Jesse. If he did it at all, it must have been several days earlier-- around the time he got back from Mexico.
It couldn't have been Walt because he saw the kid less than 24 hours before he was taken to the hospital (plus, he didn't even enter the house). Until that point, he doesn't know the mom and the kid are back in Jesse's life. So Walt did it earlier, he's REALLY good.
Then there's the reveal/trigger. To set that up, Gus has to (a) find out about the Ricin, (b) know where Jesse is concealing it, (c) poison the kid before he knows that Jesse won't agree to have Walt killed, (d) tell Tyrus to steal the cigarette from the locker at the right moment, (e) count on the mom to take the baby to the hospital, (f) hope she's going to call Jesse, (g) hope Jesse will notice his cigarette is gone and (h) hope he'll decide Walt poisoned the kid.
But wait, there's more. Jesse screws up the plan by going to Walt's house without a gun, so (i) Walt has to leave his gun where Jesse can grab it and (j) Jesse has to see the gun and grab it.
That's one hell of a plan. Ben Linus would be impressed by it. It's not much of a stretch to say "Gus has hired a doctor to tend to the injuries suffered by all the employees in his drug ring." It's not much of a stretch to say "He has the doctor and nurses on call when he goes to Mexico to kill the head of the cartel." But this is ridiculous.
Also, Saul is leaving because he thinks Gus considers Saul to be a part of Walt's family. OK, sure. And his primary concern when he's getting out of Dodge in fear for his life is to... contact Jesse to make sure Jesse gets his money. Yeah, that sounds right. And when did Jesse give the money to Saul?
Plus, Jesse is so angry with Walt that he doesn't want to deal with him anymore. But he isn't so angry that he wants him killed. And he's willing to create problems for himself with Gus... but it never occurs to him to just tell Walt "He wants to kill you all and you guys need to leave."
Plus, we have Skyler morphing back into the caring wife at just the right moment. It's one thing to show her terrified that Walt will be killed because it means the story comes out and she goes to jail. What's shown here is that she's concerned for his physical safety. That transformation happened when?
The show moves along at a quick enough pace-- and it detonates so many things and does them so spectacularly-- that you almost don't mind. But the writing we are seeing here doesn't stand close analysis and that's pretty sad.
BTW, a long while back, Alan posted about his visit to the BREAKING BAD set and talked about Vince Gilligan spending 12 hours directing a scene where Walt delivers a long speech while sitting on the kitchen floor. I'm guessing this must have been it.
Good scene. Shame it wasn't set up better by the writing.
kronicfatigue Rufus, do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
October 3, 2011 at 3:30PM ESTBernie Stead @Rufus: You forget that Ricin poisoning can occur in a number of different ways. When Gus said 3-5 days, he was talking about INGESTED ricin. If Brock had smoked it, you'd better believe it would manifest far, far quicker. It's poison 101. Ingested poisons typically take longer than inhaled ones.
October 3, 2011 at 6:04PM EST
@Rufus, Skyler of course still loves and cares about Walt, and doesn't want him do die. There's nothing inconsistent there. And it also seems reasonable that Gus might take out Saul, simply because he "knows too much", not that Saul is literally a member of the White family now. I'm also totally fine with Jesse being angry at Walt but not wanting him dead.
October 3, 2011 at 11:47PM ESTI suspect it will turn out that Gus didn't poison Brock; I certainly hope so. It's too dumb of a storyline. I agree with you on that point and I'm withholding judgment until we get a better confirmation.
gotcha kronicfatigue.. The point of the six mile walk was really not swift. I will say you are correct on that. The doctor told Jesse He [gus] pays my salary, and he is following instructions from Gus.
October 4, 2011 at 12:50AM ESTI thought of something that didn't fly right. Gus telling everyone to leave and they are free. Then they had to go to car number 3 to get one with keys. I would think they should have gotten to a car first. But this show is excellent. It's pure genius. Just wanted to tell you they have to do what they do best. next week VG willelegantly pull this altogether
Scoot Fortunately, Rufus, I doubt that either Gus or ricin was involved. Instead of assuming bad writing, I tend to assume good writing of severely flawed characters.
October 4, 2011 at 2:35PM ESTjoeyjojo "The doctors open the front seat to look at Mike. Only to ignore him and go in the back to get Gus... In reality, Gus and Mike look different enough to be able to tell that from outside the car."
October 4, 2011 at 7:25PM ESTIt's strange to me when people try to nitpick a show to death and can't even get the details right. Jesse opens the door for the doctors, and when the car pulls by the camera, the windows are sufficiently tinted that you can't see Mike or Gus.
joeyjojo "Gus telling everyone to leave and they are free. Then they had to go to car number 3 to get one with keys. I would think they should have gotten to a car first."
October 4, 2011 at 7:27PM ESTIf you tell the people who are alive to leave, then the cars that remain will belong to people who are dead. I mean, it's unlikely that one of the hookers would call the police, but instead of allowing that possibility, they take a car from somebody who definitely won't miss it in the timeframe they're acting under.
foster Well this is a good a time as any to kick Rufus and Kronic while they're down.
October 7, 2011 at 2:32PM ESTPoisoning your enemies is a cliche, but with Gus drinking from the same bottle as Eladio, it alleviates whatever fears the cartel had. And like you've been told, Kronic, the enforcers on both sides didn't drink, because they need to be ready, so no, no one forgot about Mike.
Labelled blood packs is quite easily your worst nitpick, seeing as identifying whose blood is whose in an emergency takes precedence over a little extra secrecy in a tent set up to patch up shoot-out survivors.
The meth-heads lived at Jesse's for about a week. People won't necessarily call the police to what sounds like a party, especially in the suburbs, nor are all the junkies thinking rationally enough to steal Jesse's money...
Skyler gave away the money days prior to deal with the tax evasion, and Ted ran because he was just told he was going to be taken hostage for a few days. Your complaints stem from the fact that you have no memory or empathy.
I've got a brand new pair of boots for Rufus, but I'm afraid I'll probably reveal the final episode, though it's just based on sound logic and not some advance viewing:
Kid wasn't poisoned by ricin, and certainly not by Gus considering his reaction, Walt's gun was very likely empty and it was patently obvious from the end of that episode that Walt (with the help of Saul) poisoned Brock with something non-lethal, from which he'll recover (Walt can make ricin just fine, no need to steal). Saul leaves Jesse urgent messages so that Huell can frisk him and replace the ricin cig pack with a regular pack (planting suspicion in Jesse's mind when he finds it missing), and his rush to get out of town is because he knows Walt is planning to take out Gus and Saul has been an accomplice to that. Saul has a relationship with the kid, brings him candy or something laced with whatever faster acting poison plant Walt's gun spun to at the start of the episode in his garden.
And finally, Skyler has always cared about Walt, just like Jesse and Walt care about each other. The Whites have years of peaceful marriage and J&W have a year long father/son relationship. Hopefully that puts things into perspective. And Skyler cares even though Walt's a murderer, drug manufacturer, and all around horrible human being. He's lucky she'd even let someone that dangerous back into her life.
And for all the contrivances, implausible monologues and cliches this show has put us through for 3 seasons, I can safely say that season 4 is a step above.
J
October 2, 2011 at 11:10PM EST Reply to CommentI am convinced that Walter White actually poisoned Brock. We don't see him for most of the episode and the fallout of Brock being poisoned works out perfectly for him, because Jesse is now his pawn to be used as he sees fit.
cgeye But Jesse kept track of that cigarette assiduously until he was cooking -- Walter could have done it, but how would he disappear Jesse's ricin, that day? They had no contact.
October 2, 2011 at 11:14PM ESTcgeye But Jesse kept track of that cigarette assiduously until he was cooking -- Walter could have done it, but how would he disappear Jesse's ricin, that day? They had no contact.
October 2, 2011 at 11:14PM ESTJacob That's exactly what I think too. Gus is a brilliant planner but so is Walt. Walt has figured out Gus' plan's instantly dating back to last season with Gale and this year with the wedge he drove between Jesse and Walt. Gus has never been "10 steps ahead" of Walt really. I really do think this is Walter's doing.
October 2, 2011 at 11:22PM ESTPlus my theory about the ending of the episode is that what most likely got Gus suspicious was that Jesse mentioned the boy had been poisoned and the wheel's went spinning in Gus's head and he got paranoid, more than he actually noticed something off. But if he had actually been the one to poison the boy, he wouldn't have had that reaction.
Justin Is it possible that this whole thing could be a mistake? What if the kid went into Jesse's pocket and smoked the cigarette, and Walt, noticing Jesse's irrational state, used that to turn him back on his side (similar to the way he's got Jesse to go along with his plans in the past).
October 2, 2011 at 11:27PM ESTI'll need to listen to Jesse talking about how he kept track of the ricin (that part seemed a little confusing), but that was my initial takeaway.
gotcha J never could happen. Walter is not responsible for brock
October 2, 2011 at 11:32PM ESTAmanda I too am unwilling to rule out Walt as the culprit. To secretly, intentionally poison Brock with the ricin takes a lot of planning (knowing of the ricin's existence, opportunity/ability to steal it, as well as administer it), as well as a lot of knowledge of Jesse's psyche. Time (one week to be exact) will tell.
October 2, 2011 at 11:38PM ESTJacob Maybe Huell really did lift the ricin cig away from Jesse during the pat down. The A-team can do many things....
October 2, 2011 at 11:39PM ESTBut I don't think we can just put this as being something Walt is capable of. He orchestrated the murder of a somewhat innocent man when his life was threatened. I could definitely see him poisoning a little boy after all of his family had been threatened, especially after his crazy Joker laughing fit last ep. Walt is a very good strategist himself, and he would have realized that he'd need Jesse's help and that the only guarantee quickfire way to turn Jesse back to his side was to play on the fact that Gus had already harmed a child that Jesse cared about.
james The Walt theory seems impossible, as I don't think he had a clue who they were or would be able to track them. He just saw them for the first time before Tyrus suddenly pulled his "don't taze me bro" routine, correct?
October 2, 2011 at 11:53PM ESTJA Walt didn't have to know who they are- Saul knows. It's Saul who would have to had to actually carry the plan out, presumably by poisoning some kind of food or drink and giving it to Brock.
October 3, 2011 at 12:29AM ESTAdam If Walt had done it, the confrontation would not have involved giving Jesse access to the gun.
October 3, 2011 at 12:33AM ESTCameo @Adam: Don't know for sure if the gun was loaded.
October 3, 2011 at 3:10AM ESTdan I am 99% sure it was Walter. In that scene with Jesse and the gun, Walter's timing was just too perfect, and his lines (about how everything revolved around Jesse! he's learned from earlier in the season) too manipulative and practiced. Not to mention the distasteful look he has on his face early in the episode, before he disappears, when he forces the gun to spin away from him (clearly he's making a decision about what is worth doing to stay alive).
October 3, 2011 at 3:56AM ESTdan I am 99% sure it was Walter. In that scene with Jesse and the gun, Walter's timing was just too perfect, and his lines (about how everything revolved around Jesse! he's learned from earlier in the season) too manipulative and practiced. Not to mention the distasteful look he has on his face early in the episode, before he disappears, when he forces the gun to spin away from him (clearly he's making a decision about what is worth doing to stay alive).
October 3, 2011 at 3:56AM ESTMatt I also think it was Walt, when he's yelling at Jesse to shoot him it just seemed a bit too much out of character - unless he knew the gun was unloaded...
October 3, 2011 at 4:21AM ESTAndy I think it was Walt as well, but I don't think he actually used Ricin. He would have needed Saul's help to get access to the kid and Jesse's pack of cigarettes. I definitely don't think Saul would have gone along with the plan unless the goal was to only make it appear as if the kid was going to die in order to get Jesse back on Walt's side. We've been told many times on the show it takes a while for Ricin to take effect, granted Brock is a child, but I still think it would take longer than a day. It's probably some other chemical or poison Walt used to give the kid flu like effects but not kill him. Just enough to have Jesse come after him, and give Walt the chance to convince Jesse that Gus killed Brock. It's also the only reason Walt would have stayed put in his house all day with just his snub nose to protect him. It probably wasn't even loaded when Jesse got there. Why else would he walk away and leave it there with his back turned? As Alan has said before, Bryan Cranston is a good actor, but Walt isn't. It seemed (on second viewing) Walt was putting on a bit of a play during the whole "shoot me" scene. I just don't see the benefit outweighing the risk for Gus to pull a stunt like this.
October 3, 2011 at 7:05AM ESTAndy The other possibility is the kid just poisoned himself by accident. He idolizes Jesse and has definitely seen him smoke before given that Jesse is heavy smoker. Makes total sense that a kid his age would try smoking when he's seen an adult role model do it. He might have even flipped the cigarette he took back upside down after doing it in order to not be caught. That's why Jesse was sure the cigarette was still there when he went to work.
October 3, 2011 at 7:16AM ESTI still like the theory that Walt did it better though. I definitely don't think Gus did it.
PurplePurpleEverywhere I don't think there is away for Walt to get into the Super Lab to get the ricin ciggarette. Gus fired him and said he would never cook again. It would be killed if he stepped foot near that Super Lab especially with all the camereas. You see that Jesse is cooking during the DEA raid, the Gus is watching the cameras during it - so how would Walt get into the Super Lab to obtain the ricin ciggarette without being caught?! He would most certainly be killed even stepping foot on laundry/super lab grounds.
October 3, 2011 at 7:48AM ESTMajor minority I've thought more and I can see both sides of the argument.
October 3, 2011 at 9:30AM ESTWalt being the culprit is plausible because he's largely unaccounted for during that whole day. Even when Marie calls him, he doesn't answer (although we assume it's because he's trying to make the break easier on himself.) The spin the bottle with the gun can also be interpreted as him realizing, on the third try, that fate is not resigning him to die. He has a choice.
Saul made a cryptic comment about "not wanting to butter the wrong bread," when asking Jesse to put in a good word for him, in regards to Gus. This could also be viewed as Saul not knowing who to levy his allegiance to; Gus or a new boss (Walt.)
However, Walt didn't do it. He spent his day emptying the house, barricading the doors, and preparing himself to go out like Scarface. In his panic, he'd have to remember Brock and Andrea, have the presence of mind to ask Saul who they were and where they lived, poison him covertly, and change into a green shirt. The time was too truncated,
Keep in mind that Saul probably thinks Walt is gone by now. Moreover, keep in mind that if Walt saw Andrea and Brock, Tyrus definitely has seem them. It's also not out of the realm of possibility Brock was poisoned a couple of days earlier, with Gus' own ricin supply, and then had Tyrus steal the cigarette later, to further the ruse.
The main argument for Walt doing it is that the plan would require Gus to assume Jesse taking huge leaps in logic. However, it's not true. Gus needs Jesse to arrive at a certain conclusion... But he doesn't need him to leap to them right away. He will prod and manipulate then until Jesse gets there. That's why, once he realizes Jesse now knows it was poison, not sickness, he gives him the week off... Even though he was adamant, seconds earlier, about returning to work immediately. He asks "how did this happen?" hoping to get Jesse's gears turning. (Incidently, Jesse's response of "The DOCTORS don't know," may have tipped Gus off that something was amiss."
Either way, I believe that Gus is more apt to believe that killing a kid is an "appropriate response" than Walt.
emilylux But how on earth would Walt have access to Brock?
October 3, 2011 at 9:45AM ESTTrilby I agree that the purposeful poisoning of Brock is a stretch. I don't see how Walt had the opportunity to get the ricin back from Jesse and poinson Brock any more than I think Gus had the opportunity. I think Brock got hold of it by accident and Jesse is going to blame himself first and Walt second for making him carry it around. My two cents.
October 3, 2011 at 10:01AM ESTBut I am not good at predicting plots. I don't even try. I just watch for enjoyment and I don't feel like my intelligence has been insulted yet.
pancookery Walt didn't poison the kid.
October 3, 2011 at 10:16AM EST1. How would he have access to the cigarette?
2. Walt is plenty capable of synthesizing a new batch of Ricin himself anyway. Why bother with the cigarette batch?
Not that it matters much, but the kids symptoms are more consistent with inhalation as opposed to digestion, in my opinion. Worsening fever was what his mom noted when Jesse met her, not hemoptsis (vomiting blood) from a failing digestive tract. Plus he was on a vent (though that might happen if he gets shocky regardless of route).
Titan_Memento @Trilby Walt never had the opportunity but Huell could have grabbed the ricin when he was patting Jesse down at Saul's. Walt and Saul were probably desperate enough for survival to poison Brock. I don't think Gus had the need to try something so drastic.
October 3, 2011 at 10:23AM ESTDave I Justin "Is it possible that this whole thing could be a mistake?"
October 3, 2011 at 11:07AM ESTYep. That was my first thought (it being an accidental poisoning) until they threw in it being a likely poisoning by Gus or Walt. And that almost seems like the most likely scenario. The more I think about it, the more I question Gus poisoning Brock. It seems like too much would have to happen in a short for that to be the case. Walt had no realistic way to get at both the ricin AND Brock either. Either way, I'm just not totally buying either Gus OR Walt being able to work such a seemingly convoluted plan, although you could certainly think of scenarios that would fit (e.g. somebody poisons Brock with SOMETHING, and then steals the cigarette so Jesse thinks it was ricin when it was something else, or who knows).
The two reasons why Brock smoking the cigarette might NOT be a logical choice would be that first, Brock would have to find the cigarette AND smoke it (one would hope somebody might notice that, but it's not impossible), and second if it fit into the timeframe (would Brock and the cigarette have been in the same room between the time Jesse last saw his "lucky cigarette" and when he realized it was missing outside the hospital?). Those seemed to indicate it was NOT Brock mimicing Jesse and smoking one of his cigarettes (with presumably the upside down one standing out and being the reason he'd grab that one).
-Cheers
gershomatl I would NOT want to be in the room if and when Jesse discovers Walt killed Jane and poisoned the boy...wait, maybe I would. That would be one helluva scene.
October 3, 2011 at 11:14AM ESTJoseph There is no way in the world Walt would poison/kill an innocent child to save his own ass. Or for any reason, for that matter. Anyone who believes he could has not been paying attention to the last few episodes.
October 3, 2011 at 12:22PM ESTireneinidaho If Walt wanted to poison Brock with ricin, he wouldn't need Jesse's cigarette -- he could just make more ricin. So if Brock did get sick from the ricin in the cig, it must have been either an accident or done by someone else.
October 3, 2011 at 3:20PM ESTBen It is absolutely Walt who poisoned Brock. I mulled it over a while and looked at some scenes again, and the one that shows it is the one right after the opening credits. Walt spins his gun and it lands on him twice. The obvious meaning of that(much like the obvious meaning of Skyler's coin landing on Colorado twice first) is that the best thing for everyone is for Walt to die. But Walt doesn't like that option, so he spins again, and the gun lands pointing to a flower pot. That's when Walt realized, "I have to destroy the only pleasant thing I know of right now" i.e., Jesse's happy side-family. Like others have speculated, he realizes that it's the only play he has in order to turn Jesse against Gus. Maybe, he didn't really poison him with ricin, but with something milder, but took the cigarette anyway. However knowing Walt, he probably doesn't care about the kid's life that much and would just think the hospital could take care of the ricin poisoning anyway, as difficult as that may be.
October 3, 2011 at 4:44PM ESTmcclainvideo Walt did it, even if the plot holes remain in the season finale. This is how the writers have set it up.
October 3, 2011 at 5:41PM ESTThe "spin the gun" scene was a set up for the eventual reveal next week. The pat down at Saul's office was, on the surface, a moment of levity, but I found it a little odd while watching it. This would mean Saul had to be apart of this whole thing... it's also another reason why he would want so badly to get out of dodge.
And finally... this is Walt's story of transformation. Mr. Chips to Scarface. We all know this. By what I've been reading for the past four years, he will need to be hated by series' end. Poisoning a child is definitely a start.
mcclainvideo ALSO... I believe that this is the first time in the series' history that any director (especially the series' creator) has directed 2 back-to-back episodes. There's a reason for this. It's simply better for one director to fit in all of the elaborate puzzle pieces behind the reveal that Walt is our guy.
October 3, 2011 at 5:46PM ESTmcclainvideo Sorry... ONE MORE thing. I may be stupid, because Gus is a manipulative sonovabitch, but I truly believed that Gus had no idea about the boy until Jessie told him in the hospital. Just look at his face. Confusion. He was, however, smart enough to realize that Walt was probably behind all of this and thought better of getting back in that car.
October 3, 2011 at 5:51PM ESTmcclainvideo Hahahah... For real... ONE LAST THING... I promise... This is also an obvious set up for the eventual Walt/Jesse/Hank showdown that we all knew was coming since season 2. Gus exists only as a man for Walt to take the throne from.
October 3, 2011 at 6:04PM ESTDave I First, I don't think anything is absolute. The writers left if ambiguous for a reason.
October 3, 2011 at 9:04PM ESTSecond, there was no obvious way for ANYBODY to get the cigarette. Does anybody think Huell is REALLY that dextrous to have snatched the cigarette from Jesse (somehow grabbing the one upside-down poisonous cigarette yet leaving the rest of the pack) during that fumbling 5-second pat down? I don't. There is also no obvious way for Gus to have known about the cigarette, much less have gotten it from Jesse and to Brock. Nor was there any obvious way for Walt to have gotten the cigarette from Jesse and then to Brock. I think that's the point. We'll find out, but at this point either or neither could have done it and almost any of the basic theories contained in those possibilities are equally plausible. I think that is kind of the point.
-Cheers
Fred I think that it was Walt that poisoned Brock. Not directly but through Saul. When Huell inspects Jesse or something Saul could have access to the cigarette. Saul visits him every week or so and he is in the middle of the hell too, and wants to go out of it. In the beginning, in the pistol scene, the last thing it points is a plant and I think Walt tried to reach Jesse through Brock to turn him against Gus (as Gus did with Jesse). I don't know if Saul (or the "A-Team" is capable of such a thing). And how Gus spoke with Jesse in the hospital... it seems that he hasn't nothing to do with it. Maybe Walt (remembering the gun pointing to the plant) created a new poison out of it that is not fatal, the ricin is still in the cigarette but as of now we don't know where it is. Thus leading to make Jesse believe that Walter poisoned Brock (that was Walt's intention) and then explaining that wasn't him but Gus. But we only know in the next episode (if it reveals something)..
October 5, 2011 at 10:20AM ESTDave I Fred, maybe you're right. As of now though, until/unless they show how it was possible, I'm not buying Huell was able to dig out the ricin cigarette, and either NOT take the whole pack or take it and somehow slip it back into Jesse's pocket without him noticing. That would be a pretty neat trick for Houdini. The "A-Team" is flat-out NOT that capable.
October 5, 2011 at 1:35PM ESTPlus, there's no way Saul would do that. At least not if he knew the plan, and I'm reasonably sure he'd ask questions before agreeing to a pickpocket pat-down for when Jesse came to get his money. Saul's already jumping ship. Is he really going to risk getting Gus upset with him either by trying to steal from his main cook OR much less by taking part in a plan to ultimately coerce Jesse into being complicit in killing Gus? His main priority is survival. Even the indirect things he's done just to help Walt & Jesse stay alive have put him on edge.
No, if Walt did this, I have to believe it was without Saul and I definitely do not believe Huell was quick-fingered enough to slip one upside down cigarette out of Jesse's pocket in that haphazard pat down.
-Cheers
Alex
October 2, 2011 at 11:10PM EST Reply to CommentIn the chapel scene, if Jesse reveals that he knows that Brock was poisoned, wouldn't that let Gus know that Jesse also knows it was Gus that poisoned Brock?
topher Absolutely. I think that sepinwall and some of the other people above missed that. The bad to have known and I think thats the only reason he volunteered to lose millions in mefh and let jesse stay home for a week. It was a peace offering.
October 2, 2011 at 11:58PM ESTThen he figured out that it might be a plot to kill him.
PurplePurpleEverywhere I think the offer to let him not cook was a way to take his suspicions off of himself. Gus could tell Jesse was angry and had a reaction to Gus being there. If Gus makes Jesse think he is sympathetic of Brock he may think he is convincing Jesse that it is indeed Walt that poisoned Brock. Gus needs to use whatever he can to make Jesse think Walt did it because that is the only way Jesse will “approve” of Walt’s death – by his own hands. If Jesse didn’t kill Walt by now Gus is a smart enough man to know something is up, therefore he is protecting his interests and trying to rid himself of any suspicions from Jesse.
October 3, 2011 at 7:55AM ESTDan3320
October 2, 2011 at 11:10PM EST Reply to CommentI literally let out a "hell yea!" when Walt said "then let me help you." Unreal episode. Cannot wait for next week.
DW I did the exact same thing when he said that line. Now, though, I'm starting to think Walt poisoned Brock. When he spins the gun the third time, it points to a plant (one in the middle) that has a red flower - that's a castor oil plant, which is where ricin comes from.
October 3, 2011 at 4:20AM ESTRuss Wow DW, if that is true, you may have cracked the code.
October 3, 2011 at 7:11AM ESTemilylux Dan, I did the same! I was so glad they were back together. Did a little jig. Was so happy. I hope it wasn't for naught, though. If Walt has decided to kill a kid (not convinced of that but this show could go anywhere) then Jesse is going to have to go to even greater lengths to get rid of not only Gus but Walt, possibly Mike too.
October 3, 2011 at 9:47AM ESTcgeye
October 2, 2011 at 11:12PM EST Reply to CommentAs soon as Jesse learned Brock was sick, I KNEW -- and I thought it was merely Brock playing with the cigarrette, but since ricin's so toxic, everyone in that house would have been exposed.
If Gus is capable of such a move, and knew that if Jesse doesn't kill Walt immediately, he'd have to kill Jesse and Walt himself, why is the vibe in that church scene so off?
If Fring's on the board of that hospital, he has at least one doctor/nurse on the pad, and thus access to hospital databases, where the ricin diagnosis/treatment would be noted.
Shucks, I know things are tense, but if that ricin's reported, doesn't the Department of Homeland Security come into play? Merely using it is like dropping a suitcase nuke.
I'm just saying, there are consequences -- in homebrewing bomb materials (and leaving them on the stove, while going to a hit); in telling one's girlfriend that her kid's dying from ricin poisoning; and by telling your ex-partner that he was a patsy for their boss, who definitely has painted a target on both their backs. How can anyone in this show walk away, let away walk away without jail time?
Modok Reply to comment...
October 2, 2011 at 11:17PM ESTModok Exactly. I'm willing to bet it's just a kid being a kid and trying a cigarette, He probably did it to emulate Jessie, the "cool male adult" in his life. He could've done it in the yard or in some outside hiding place.
October 2, 2011 at 11:22PM ESTIt certainly gives this whole plot twist a much more tragic feel. Just think about the chain reaction it's set off.
It's certainly plausible that Gus did it, but I'd like to think that Walt and Jessie outsmarted themselves: Gus knew nothing about the ricing, and in the end, they only have themselves to blame.
Modok Oops...ricing? I think that's the delicious fatal poison they put on birthday cakes.
October 2, 2011 at 11:24PM ESTDelta1212 They addressed that in the show, though. Jesse had the cigarette with him that morning when he switched it to a new pack. Brock wouldn't have had an opportunity to take it. The only two known opportunities to have swiped the cigarette that were presented are Saul's office or the Lab.
October 2, 2011 at 11:25PM ESTModok Delta - yeah, i forgot he said that. Just heard it on the replay. Unless Jessie forgot the details or had his chronology wrong, then I'm probably wrong.
October 2, 2011 at 11:46PM ESTThough if Gus did know about the ricin, it shows the shared pot at their dinner wasn't a coincidence.
Delta1212 Yeah, I keep thinking back to that scene. Even atthe time, I wondered if Gus knew and was conducting some sort of test.
October 3, 2011 at 12:21AM ESTemilylux There is no antidote. Repeat: No Antidote.
October 3, 2011 at 9:48AM ESTWVB It's entirely plausible that Jesse misremembers when he last saw the cigarette.
October 3, 2011 at 12:52PM ESTEarl Doom
October 2, 2011 at 11:12PM EST Reply to CommentThat's it. I'm buying a shield and a helmet for the season finale. I'm not leaving anything to chance.
amberlita Hah! Indeed.
October 2, 2011 at 11:24PM ESTJonathan McLellan
October 2, 2011 at 11:14PM EST Reply to CommentThe only option to Gus knowing is through some kind of glare on Walt's glasses on top of his head, but Gus would have to be perpetually scanning to see them. But take a look at one of the last shots. Walt's head falls down but the camera stays on the top of his head and his glasses. It has to be a clue.
cmoyer I saw that too
October 2, 2011 at 11:59PM ESTScoot But there have been numerous shots this season that have focused on glasses, both Gus' and Walt's. I assumed that shot was just another of those.
October 3, 2011 at 9:56AM ESTJay V The glasses thing is a pure red herring...not a clue at all.
October 3, 2011 at 12:20PM ESTMajor minority
October 2, 2011 at 11:14PM EST Reply to CommentAwesome. They talk about Nazi Germany, and the next scene, people are hiding underneath the floors.
I guess they did have Jesse's place bugged too. It makes a lot more sense than letting him be left alone when he was a concern to them.
Kallen
October 2, 2011 at 11:15PM EST Reply to CommentUmm, yeah, a Walt/Jesse assassination attempt went according to plan last season, in the finale. Remember?
sepinwall No, it didn't. It was improvised. Walt was supposed to do it. They had to scramble when Victor showed up at Walt's house before he could make it to Gale's apartment.
October 2, 2011 at 11:19PM ESTvelony
October 2, 2011 at 11:16PM EST Reply to CommentAre we sure it wasn't Walt who poisoned Brock? I didn't believe it until I saw Gus's reaction to the news that Brock was poisoned.
Why would anyone poison a child? Perhaps to, as Walt argued, drive a wedge between Walt and Jesse, but it also served to distract Jesse from the cook, which brought a personal visit from Gus. This repeats the situation from last season, when Walt was the cook and Hank was the victim. Walt knows about this pattern, and this creates a perfect opportunity to plan an assassination attempt.
The way Gus anticipated his assassination attempt left me believing that Gus was following this very line of thought, and that's why he knew not to approach the car.
Or I could just be completely wrong and Gus did it for the reasons Walt outlined.
Major minority I think Gus gave Jesse the extra time off to let him "figure it out" himself, in regards to the poisoning. When Gus asked if he knew how it happened, he was trying to get Jesse to think about Walt. They probably thought he was too panicked, or not smart enough, to blame Walt right away (because everyone always underestimates Jesse.)
October 2, 2011 at 11:23PM ESTWalt couldn't have done it with the timeline Jesse gave.
L.S. ODOM Walt did it, I'm convinced. I would even go so far as to say that, if he wasn't 100% sure who would come knocking at his door (first), he was anticipating that confrontation and already had a counter-arguement prepared to sway Jesse.
October 2, 2011 at 11:26PM ESTJoe Ways Gus could have known something was up without the "spidey sense" angle:
October 2, 2011 at 11:30PM EST- Bugs in Walt's house
- Bug in Jesse's phone
- Someone tailing Jesse and having seen him go into and out of Walt's house
- Someone seeing Walt gathering the supplies for the bomb.
- Someone tailing Walt seeing him leave the house.
As for why he would sense precisely at that moment what was going on, maybe he didn't. Notice how Gus showed up at the hospital with extra muscle, something that is completely unlike him. He's never gone anywhere with his muscle in the same car before, not to see Walt in the desert, not to see Hank in the hospital, etc. He then shows up not only with Tyrus, but an additional goon. So he was probably waiting for something to happen, and as nothing happened he thought that the only place left he could be hit in was his car.
asarael It's possible, but we've consistently seen Walter White be a horrible actor when trying to cover anything up (for example, any scene with him and Hank). I don't think there's any way he was lying in that scene. Cranston is a great actor; Walter White is not.
October 2, 2011 at 11:31PM ESTTitan_Memento As the IGN review points out, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that Huell was the one to take the cigarette off of Jesse. So I guess Walt told Saul the only way to save their own lives was to poison Brock.
October 2, 2011 at 11:32PM ESTnatx Watched scene again...i dont think walt couldve have done it, cause his reaction when jesse knocked on door and came to walt...walt was not acting like he was waiting for jesse to come...which he wouldve been had he have been the one to do it.
October 2, 2011 at 11:44PM ESTL.S. ODOM @ASARAEL: Now that's a convincing arguement. Now I'm torn. Damn this is a well-written show.
October 2, 2011 at 11:47PM ESTAsh J Keep in mind that even if Walt arranged the poisoning, and Huell to lift the ricin cigarette off of Jesse, it is not necessarily the case that Brock received ricin. Could be something else that is not fatal...the objective would only be to make Jesse think Gus gave Brock the ricin.
October 3, 2011 at 1:09AM ESTBrian @Asarael There's a distinct difference between Walt lying when he's caught off-guard vs. when he's in control of the situation.
October 3, 2011 at 1:49AM ESTWith Hank, he's generally concocting a story on the fly to throw Hank off. You're right - Walt's a horrible liar when he's called out on the spot.
Contrast this with Walt's stories where time is on his side to fully craft them. His lies to Skyler were always much more convincing, and this situation with Jesse is very similar. He had all morning to fully work it out.
Ben @Ash J I think you're right that Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin. I think the show established pretty strongly that ricin takes several days to be enacted. I'm of the opinion that Walt was the one that poisoned the boy and I keep on thinking about the scene early in the episode when Walt is sitting by the pool and spinning the gun. I might be reading way too much into it but the third spin lands on a strange white plant that the camera pans over to and focuses on. Maybe that's the source of the poison?
October 3, 2011 at 2:22AM ESTDeez It would be PERFECT if it ended up being neither Gus or Walt's doing and Brock's poisoning being completely unrelated but Jesse was too paranoid to think clearly. Walt's paranoia has been a recurring theme all season long and for that seed to finally start growing in Jesse (albeit because of the Ricin cigarette Walt planted for him) is when everything starts to come together.
October 3, 2011 at 3:43AM ESTPurplePurpleEverywhere @Titan_Memento I don't think Huell could have taken the pack out of Jesse's pockets, taken out the ricin cigarette, and then put it back in. If you watch the scene Jesse is pushing him away and backing away and is only a few seconds that elapse so it is highly unlikely Huell could accomplish all of this in such a short amount of time without Jesse seeing.
October 3, 2011 at 8:15AM ESTed newman @Joe Wrote:
October 3, 2011 at 9:41AM ESTWays Gus could have known something was up without the "spidey sense" angle:
- Bugs in Walt's house
- Bug in Jesse's phone
- Someone tailing Jesse and having seen him go into and out of Walt's house
- Someone seeing Walt gathering the supplies for the bomb.
- Someone tailing Walt seeing him leave the house.
While all these are possible ways Gus could know without "spidey sense" they don't explain why Gus, knowing something was up, would leave his car unattended in a deserted parking lot. It also doesn't explain why Gus would go all the way back to within 30 feet of his car, then stop and turn around. If he knew based on any of the things listed above, he never would have parked where he did in the first place nor would he have gone back up to the car without sending someone to check the car out first. And he certainly wouldn't have made himself a sitting duck for a sniper just staring out of the parking lot. No, he had to be working it all out on the way to the car, or he really does have spidey sense.
brentalistair
October 2, 2011 at 11:17PM EST Reply to CommentPerhaps there will be an explanation next week but the ricin thing is really too convoluted to stand as it is. He knew about the poison? He knew that Jesse would somehow blame Walt for the poison that Jesse, who had no contact with Walt, had in his possession? He knew that it would end with Jesse killing Walt rather than the other way around? I mean, the one thing he had to know was that Walt had a gun and that he was exremely anxious and paranoid. How could he know how that confrontation would end? I get that Gus is smart but he's not omniscient, right? Despite that complaint, I actually enjoyed the episode but I hope they do a better job of explaining the whole poisoning thing next week because as it stands, its not too credible a story.
gotcha brentalistair so agree with yor comment. Where and how did Brock get poisoned? I do not think that it was confirmed , but now that Brock is in the hospital that Gus is on the board of... I hope they could make this must less contrived.
October 2, 2011 at 11:57PM ESTI do not think Mike will return. that would be an incredible recovery.
I THOUGHT the agent that let Skylar out for a cigarette was not to clever. wrong move to put that in. I love this episode, but next week needs to be quite a finally. How could they let Jesse be that broken, by letting someone else in his life die. jane, then Andrea'S OTHER CHILD. TOO much for Jesse to do anything if he is this punished. Great review ALan THE JESSE PINKMAN SHOW is perfect. thank you 7 days
ww Tomas wasn't Andrea's child. He was her little brother.
October 3, 2011 at 7:50AM ESThumanrefutation
October 2, 2011 at 11:17PM EST Reply to CommentI just got the impression that Gus realized that leaving his car alone was the perfect way for Walt to take him out. And, even if he was just being paranoid, he'd rather be safe than sorry. Though, if he did think Walt might've had something waiting for him with the car, he must know that Jesse had something to do with it. I mean, wouldn't he have someone tailing Jesse and noticed that he visited Walt? Seeing that would cause him to put two and two together, and note that Jesse might not be as loyal as he thinks. I'm just speculating, obviously, but those are the thoughts that went through my mind during the episode.
Delta1212
October 2, 2011 at 11:18PM EST Reply to CommentObviously Gus is almost certainly behind the ricin, I just... wonder what Walt was doing that whole time he was offscreen. I noted that pat down while it was happening, and of course it was there to add tension to the scene between Gus and Walt, but... That did work out pretty well for Walt at a time when he was out of options and allies. And he would know exactly what buttons to push, the ones this incident happened to push...
Still, Walt can't be quite that far gone yet? And it would be pretty far fetched to have such an elaborate set up with Saul and Huell... Yeah, it's gotta be Gus...
spongebob Walt would not deliberate kill a child. No way. But someone mentioned the weird plant in Walt's backyard that he stared at. Maybe some kind of toxic plant, but not a fatal dose. Either way, Walt didn't appear to be expecting Jesse at his house.
October 3, 2011 at 3:41AM ESTKeep in mind that Saul originally worked for Gus, not Walt or Jesse. He took them as clients but still works with Gus and Mike. Gus may have ordered Saul to take Jesse's cigarette. Ultimately, the cigarette is gone and we don't know why.
hd No, Saul doesn't work with them anymore. He never worked for Gus, and he's been terrified of Mike ever since he found out where his true loyalties lay at the end of last season. That said, I could see Saul doing something for Gus out of fear, but I don't think it's likely.
October 3, 2011 at 7:56AM EST
But it was only one patdown. Huell would've had to taken the cigs from Jesse, removed the ricin, and replaced the pack. No way for him to have done that.
October 3, 2011 at 11:48PM ESTScoot Actually, he would only have had to remove the pack and replace it with a different pack. And before anyone mentions the number of cigarettes, that doesn't matter. As soon as he opens the pack, he'll see the missing cig anyway.
October 4, 2011 at 4:20PM ESTEyeball wit
October 2, 2011 at 11:19PM EST Reply to CommentI was rewatching season one and saw the scenes with Jesse's brother.
Clearly Brock is kind of a Jake substitute. And I thought back to the scene where Jesse takes the blame for Jakes hidden joint and wondered if Brock hadn't tried to emulate Jesse by taking a puff.
Spoony c I think the ricin was in a tiny vial stuffed into the cigarette paper (and covered over with tobacco). I don't think the ricin could be smoked accidentally.
October 3, 2011 at 10:32AM ESThumanrefutation
October 2, 2011 at 11:20PM EST Reply to CommentRandom aside: Wouldn't it be crazy if Walt did have something to do with Brock's poisoning? Wow.
Modok But when could he? Think about it. Did Walt even know about Andrea and Brock? The one time he came to Jessie's house while they were there, Jessie left him there on the lawn. I don't recall that Walt even got into the house.
October 2, 2011 at 11:33PM ESTAfterward, would he have known where they lived? How could he have gotten that one cigarette out of Jessie's jacket? Sleight-of-hand while getting his head slammed into a table during their fight?
And even if he had the cigarette, when would he have been alone with a little kid? How would Andrea not have noticed that her 8-year-old son was being smoking/eating/being injected with something by a bald guy with a goatee?
And then, of course, we as the audience already know what Walt was up to after that scene...driving Walt around, begging for his life, trying to escape, etc. Walt always thinks that he's got these great plans, so if he believed that poisoning Brock would save him, it seems less likely that he would've been so desperate to disappear.
humanrefutation Oh, I know. I don't think the timeline fits or anything. But there was something about the way he stared at Brock and Andrea when he visited Jesse, almost like a "WTF, I didn't expect you to be here" look.
October 2, 2011 at 11:51PM ESTAnyway, I'm just commenting on how that would be an f'd up reveal in the final episode. Just like if Jesse found out Walt watched Jane die, all bets would be off.
KeepingAwake People are too focused on the cigarette when trying to determine if Walt had something to do with this poisoning. Who, after all, made the ricin that went into the cigarette? That's right-Walt. The cigarette is a red herring in determining whether Walt had an opportunity to poison Brock as Walt can always make more ricin-he's not restricted to the capsule he gave Jessie.
October 3, 2011 at 8:37AM EST
Keepingawake the ricin cigarette was missing. Walt could not have gotten to it he hadnt seen jesse.
October 3, 2011 at 11:59AM ESTScoot The Previously On segment showed Walt looking directly at Andrea and Brock.
October 4, 2011 at 4:23PM ESTWalt had Saul swap out the cigarette pack with a decoy pack. Then he dosed Brock with something non-lethal. The missing cig makes Jesse ASSUME that it was used on Brock.
Brian
October 2, 2011 at 11:20PM EST Reply to CommentThere's no doubt in my mind that Walt was the one who poisoned the kid with the ricin. His explanation to Jesse, implicating Gus, was a perfect match in both delivery and content to the many stories he used to spin for Skylar to mask his antics.
Walt did it, and there will be hell to pay once Jesse finally puts the pieces together.
Dan3320 But why would they hide that from us as a viewer? They have never hidden Walt's heinous acts only to later surprise us. See: Jane's death.
October 2, 2011 at 11:25PM ESTL.S. ODOM @DAN3320: But it's not a very predictable show is it? To paraphrase some old saying, "murder one and the rest are easy". Jesse's 2nd kill looked a LOT easier than the first, regardless of the circumstances...
October 2, 2011 at 11:33PM ESTBrian Just because they haven't before doesn't mean they can't start doing it now. The logic behind Gus killing Brock doesn't make sense.
October 2, 2011 at 11:36PM ESTFrom a storytelling perspective, a reveal that Walt is behind the poisoning would lead to one hell of a final scene in the finale.
gotcha Brian ..if Walt poisoned Brock I WOULD NEVER watch this show again. I have never missed an episode and think if these writers make Walt capable of that they are all using! no not walt
October 3, 2011 at 12:03AM ESTEd @Gotcha You don't think Walt is capable of that? People are pawns to him, almost to the extent of Gus. I'm also convinced Walt did it. Not sure how, maybe in cahoots with Saul. Saul is also a preservationist, and may not have realized what Walt was up to. But I'm with some others, I think this was Walt's plan to get Jesse to help him take out Gus. I'm at a point where I don't think there is anything Walt isn't capable of.
October 3, 2011 at 12:39AM ESTAshJ Again keep in mind that though Brock may have been poisoned and Jesse' ricin cigarette is missing even if Walt was involved it is not necessarily the case that Brock was poisoned with ricin. Walt just wanted Jesse to think that Gus posioned Brock with ricin...
October 3, 2011 at 1:15AM ESTI too would find it entirely unbelievable for Walt to murder a child to protect himself (when did Walt become such a disgusting human being?) when he already appears ready to suffer the consequences on his own (frankly I think his cancer has returned).
Scoot @Gotcha...to paraphrase someone else, the show is called "Breaking Bad", not "Breaking Kind of Shady but Still Likable".
October 3, 2011 at 12:44PM EST@Ashj, I agree. Walt could well have dosed the kid with something else to rally Jesse.
BMK
October 2, 2011 at 11:21PM EST Reply to CommentWow, that was an intense episode and the scene in Walter's house with him and Jesse may have been the finest scene I've ever seen in TV. My heart was pounding.
Jhk
October 2, 2011 at 11:23PM EST Reply to CommentThree spins of the gun on the patio table. Twice landing on Walt but the last time? Pointing at the?? Very clever ;-)
monster maybe pointing at something that gave walt the idea to use the ricin
October 3, 2011 at 12:01AM ESTAshJ Ricin is derived form the castor oil plant...I too feel that this 3rd spin, and it's result, had some meaning...
October 3, 2011 at 1:17AM ESTPaul Not only that, but I think it may have some symbolic meaning as to Walt 'planting' an idea in Jesse's head.
October 3, 2011 at 8:33AM ESTMark Three flips of the coin, all three times landing in Colorado, move coin back to New Mexico.
October 3, 2011 at 1:44PM ESTSpin gun, if it points toward me, I can kill myself and my family will be safe. Gun points at him. Spin it a little harder, gun still points at him, spin it a little bit harder, gun finally pointing at empty chair.
Jhk
October 2, 2011 at 11:24PM EST Reply to CommentThree spins of the gun on the patio table. Twice landing on Walt but the last ??? Very clever ;-)
Jhk Oops sorry
October 2, 2011 at 11:26PM ESTJ
October 2, 2011 at 11:25PM EST Reply to CommentHere is why I think that Walt is behind the poisoning. I think that if Gus wanted to poison the kid the would not need to steal the poison from Jesse's cigarette he would just poison the kid. Walt however is capable of making his own poison, using it on the kid then maybe having Saul take the poisoned cigarette from Jesse. Walt didn't need to use the poison from Jesse's cigarette he just needed to be missing so Jesse would realize that Brock was poisoned. Then Walt could lead Jesse into believing that Gus did it. I mean that scene in Walter's apartment, he totally left the gun on the couch just so Jesse would pick it up. That's my theory anyways.
Julian Why would Gus have made his OWN poison? He knew that Jesse was would make the logical assumption that Walter was responsible.
October 2, 2011 at 11:39PM ESTmatthew L. how is that the logical assumption? Walt's a chemist; why would walt steal the ricin if he was going to poison the kid? To frame gus? When jesse showed up at walts, i immediately thought: "that was stupid of gus, now theyre going to team up." The surprise to me was that jesse had, in some convoluted way, implicated walt.
October 2, 2011 at 11:53PM ESTIf this was gus's big plan, im going to be very disappointed. It's so intricate and stupid.
Julian How is it not? He was the only other person to know about the ricin; who else would Jesse blame?
October 2, 2011 at 11:55PM ESTJ.P.
October 2, 2011 at 11:25PM EST Reply to CommentThe more I think on it the more irritated I am by the current situation. By taking Jesse's cigarette and using it to poison Brock it almost ruins the season for me, because it makes everything leading up to this feel like a plot device. Let's look at what could actually happen from this attempt to sway Jesse into killing Walt.
A) Jesse finds his cigarette missing, thinks the kid stole it, feels responsible, and offs himself, leaving Gus with no cook but Walt. This goes out the window because Jesse was so careful, and if Gus is so all knowing he knows Jesse was careful.
B) Jesse realizes someone stole his cigarette and it was used to poison Brock. Now at this point, a couple of different things can happen. He could make a huge and by no means predetermined leap of faith and blame Walt, as Gus' plan seems to hinge upon. This isn't very likely, because Walt only had an opportunity if you really believe he somehow got Newell and Saul to make the switch, which is pretty much ridiculous. Or, as happened, Jesse realizes Gus is behind it.
Honestly I'm disappointed. The only thing that will salvage the season at this point is if one of two things happen:
1) Walt actually was behind it somehow. This continues his break bad, he kills a child, and he pulls off a Gus caliber maneuver in his attempt to take over. That would feel like a real Breaking Bad way to go with things, but I just don't feel like they are willing to make that jump with a whole season to go.
2) Saul, for some reason, did it himself. I don't know how he would know, I don't know if Newell is really capable of that kind of sleight of hand, and I don't think the audience would really buy it. But it's better than Gus actually trying to do something that stupid.
If it's actually Gus behind it I am disappointed, but the more I think on it the more I expect the fade to credits next week to be directly preceded by us finding out Walt was behind the poisoning.
Brian In my mind, there's no way it was Gus. Walt was missing half the morning and he put the pieces together way too easily for Jesse. Walt knew drastic measures were required and he knows Jesse all too well. The best way to get Jesse at odds with Gus is making him believe that Gus is still killing kids. It's an incredibly cold but effective method from Walt's POV. Looking at it from Gus's side, the logic just breaks down.
October 2, 2011 at 11:33PM ESTThis would be the point of no return for Walt and would set-up the final season very nicely. Jesse will surely figure it out, and a showdown between the two would make for one hell of a final season.
Ron Mexico Some interesting ideas here...I guess I'm still frustrated that it's not clear who was responsible, as it could have been Jesse (accident) or Walt (intentional) or Gus (intentional). I agree with this notion that if it was a Gus machination, it was convoluted and quite a bit risky [I can't see it being Saul, that would just be so out of character]. While I am similarly disappointed, I think VG has earned more than enough goodwill that I hope he can elegantly write his way out of this. As other posters mentioned, the carbombing spidey sense was a bit excessive but could be explained through his Chilean background. I'm still a believer that VG can pull this off in an elegant way.
October 2, 2011 at 11:45PM ESTjoe The thing about it being Walt is simply how he would put the pack back. I mean, certainly Huell might have picked his pocket and took the ricin out, but how would he put the pack back in?
October 2, 2011 at 11:49PM ESTLisa I don't know it Jesse will find out. He still doesn't know about Jane, and Walt's certainly not telling. Once Gus is dead, only Brock can possibly tell how he was poisoned, if he makes it, that is..... If Jesse finds out who poisoned Brock, then I hope Jane's death is revealed at the same time.
October 2, 2011 at 11:52PM ESTBen @Joe-
October 3, 2011 at 2:02AM ESTHe'd definitely just swap in a different pack rather than try to take out an individual cigarette.
joe @Ben,
October 3, 2011 at 3:00AM ESTHuell's hands are visible going in and are clear.
Even if he was some super magician, the whole thing would require Saul actually dismantling his office just to get to Jesse's ricin.
joeyjojo "He could make a huge and by no means predetermined leap of faith and blame Walt"
October 3, 2011 at 3:22AM ESTLet me rephrase that for you:
"He would reach the immediate conclusion that the only other person in the world who know about the ricin is the one who took it, and would lash out quickly and murderously exactly the same way he did the last time he was pissed about a dead child."
Mark @Joe,
October 3, 2011 at 8:16AM ESTHuell's left hand is NOT shown clearly when he moves in to frisk Jesse. In fact, the camera zooms in slightly to keep his left hand moving-in out of frame.
And Huell can be CLEARLY seen putting something into his left-hand pocket after frisking Jesse.
Walt is absolutely behind the poisoning - although it's likely something non-fatal (suggested to Walt by the white-flowered plant the gun lands on - it wasn't a castor-oil plant).
ed newman @Ben,
October 3, 2011 at 9:53AM ESTSwitching in another pack would also involve some risk. Huell/Saul/Walt would have no idea how many cigarettes would be in the pack when the switch was made. If the pack was near full then maybe Jesse doesn't notice, but if it was nearly empty and suddenly he has a full pack?
joeyjojo It's doesn't need to be that extreme. Speaking as a smoker who doesn't smoke as much as Jesse, I know when I've got a full pack, when I'm at about 3/4, when I'm at a half, and I know exactly how many I have once I'm down to 7 or less (that's the back row).
October 4, 2011 at 7:35PM ESTScoot As I've said elsewhere, it doesn't matter how many cigarettes there are. Whoever took the ricin cig WANTS Jesse to notice it's gone. That's the whole point of using it (or of making him think someone used it).
October 4, 2011 at 8:09PM ESTjoeyjojo "Whoever took the ricin cig WANTS Jesse to notice it's gone."
October 4, 2011 at 10:30PM ESTBut Walt's hypothetical plan is to convince him that Gus had Victor's replacement slip the specific cigarette out in the lab. By this theory, his whole reaction to Jesse is a practiced thing he has committed to, and he says "take the cigarette out" not "replace your entire pack" -- which makes sense, because why would he switch packs instead of just extracting the one? Jesse suddenly noticing he had the wrong # of cigs would tip him off that it was done quickly, which would point to Huell, which Walt wouldn't want.
On top of which, they don't want Jesse to notice immediately, before they've had a chance to poison the kid.
Tony
October 2, 2011 at 11:26PM EST Reply to CommentAnother great episode. Gus proves he's doing whatever it takes to keep his business thriving, including hurting children. Jesse and Walt back together again, which Gus has figured out. This season finale is gonna be epic.
natx
October 2, 2011 at 11:28PM EST Reply to CommentI just want to make sure - we arent supposed to have a resolution to who really poisoned the kid were we? In the end im not sure it seemed either walt or gus actually poisoned the kid.
natx Im not sure how i feel about this whole ricin thing. Its the first thing that hasnt seemed believable all year... If walt...i dont think even he would stoop to that level...if gus...it just seems a little too much of a plan
October 2, 2011 at 11:36PM ESTvelocityknown
October 2, 2011 at 11:30PM EST Reply to CommentI actually think Gus finding out was pretty reasonable.
If Gus doesn't have something go to plan, he knows something is up. As Gus, he's always thinking about how he's vulnerable. I just imagined as he was walking back to his car he was thinking about where his plan was going wrong that Jesse hadn't jumped to the conclusion that Walt poisoned Brock yet and then realized he'd been lured there by Jesse's refusal to leave and he wasn't going to take any chances.
(And the fact that Jesse told Gus he knew Brock had been poisoned is a pretty big tell. I thought Jesse screwed immediately when he told him that)
gotcha I agree, but also remember when Gus tell Jesse , he sees something in people. He saw a different Jesse in the chapel. the Jesse that doesn't give a dam what Gus wants. He knows he is evil.
October 5, 2011 at 1:06AM ESTjoe
October 2, 2011 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentSorry for the double post, but I accidentally hit reply to someone else's unrelated post, so I wanted to add this:
Ways Gus could have known something was up without the "spidey sense" angle:
- Bugs in Walt's house
- Bug in Jesse's phone
- Someone tailing Jesse and having seen him go into and out of Walt's house
- Someone seeing Walt gathering the supplies for the bomb.
- Someone tailing Walt seeing him leave the house.
As for why he would sense precisely at that moment what was going on, maybe he didn't. Notice how Gus showed up at the hospital with extra muscle, something that is completely unlike him. He's never gone anywhere with his muscle in the same car before, not to see Walt in the desert, not to see Hank in the hospital, etc. He then shows up not only with Tyrus, but an additional goon. So he was probably waiting for something to happen, and as nothing happened he thought that the only place left he could be hit in was his car.
Dave I I think Gus probably had Jesse's house bugged (I recall Mike bugging Walt's house before, if I'm remembering correctly). It HAD to be after Gus was letting Jesse around him where food was present (when they met with the Cartel and Jesse made the coffee and after Gus cooked for him at his house) probably on the night Jesse & Walt had the big fight. That makes sense as it would let Gus know Jesse HAD the drug, and where it was, yet he would know Jesse had no reason/intent for using it on Gus (otherwise, why keep such a loose canon that close to you).
October 2, 2011 at 11:42PM ESTIf my theory is correct (and it could be way off), Jesse's talk about Brock being poisoned might lead Gus to realize Jesse MIGHT know or suspect Gus was involved in poisoning Brock. If nothing else, Jesse's reaction was suspicious enough to cause Gus' unease. At that point, I can jump on board. Gus seems pretty perceptive, he "sees things in people," and he's stayed alive at this game for quite some time, so presumably his instincts are good.
I'd love to find out more about how (or if) they actually got the cigarette out of Jesse's stuff without him noticing and then into Brock (and not to mention how this stuff, that was supposed to make Gus sick over a long period of time, acted so fast, even considering it was a kid). Maybe they had a great means for that, but I'd like to see more about how they'd pull that one off. It seems incredibly unlikely just laid out in a timeline.
-Cheers
Dave I
October 2, 2011 at 11:32PM EST Reply to CommentGood episode. However, a few possible gripes . . .
1) The ricin. I would need to know how Gus found out about the ricin.
2) Gus' "Spidey-Sense." Why would he have ANY reason to suspect something was amiss with his car? If he assumed it had to do with the ricin, o.k. However, presuming he somehow found out about the ricin, he really put together that using it on Brock would make Jesse turn against Walt only to discover it was not Walt but somehow Gus. That makes sense. However, see point #4.
3) Why go after Brock? I mean, I get it that it makes Jesse presume Walt did it and finally have Jesse sign-off on killing Walt for the "why." However, that leads me to...
3) It all seems be a bit of a stretch. I love this show and find the writing generally pretty tight. However, it is just a bit of a leap that Gus would somehow almost magically find out about the ricin that was hidden pretty well (and not do anything about it earlier when Jesse could easily have poisoned him, yet virtually never talked about it with Walt after those incidents) then use it only to have Jesse figure out it was used on Brock, then presume it was Walt as Gus presumably had planned, even though Walt had never seen these people before and could have no way of finding and sneaking the cigarette out and then poison Brock (or even find out where this couple of strangers lived for that matter) only for Walt & Jesse to reunite realizing it could ONLY be Gus, which meant somehow Tyrus(?) snuck the cigarette out the morning Brock got sick, AND in his food, AND the poison acted that fast, then while Walt makes a bomb to blow up Gus' car, Gus' suspicions act in a very Spidey-sense manner just in time (which actually makes the most amount of sense, see below). Overall, great vibe for the episode.
Really, the only part of the above I'm totally fine with would be Gus figuring out something was wrong. If he DID in fact poison Brock, Jesse realizing it was a poisoning, yet not realizing what it was, even though the doctors did not know it was poisoning, OBVIOUSLY means something is not quite normal. So that actually makes sense. My only gripe is it seems a bit contrived. Not terribly so, but for this show it is not as naturally flowing as I would like. It takes a few leaps in logic for that timeline to even happen, although maybe they explain it in a way that seems much easier to swallow, and would mean Gus presumes an awful lot of reactions of the characters at play to some very subtle clues. That would have been pretty good predicting for Nostradamus. Still, I'm looking forward to next week's episode and liked a lot of this one.
-Cheers
Atom_9 Hector has a living relative left that Gus doesnt know about. Gus told Hector that Jesse killed his relatives. Hector somehow had his relative contact the Mexican cartel and told him what has happened and now Jesse has someone going after him
October 3, 2011 at 2:01AM ESTdaddle ATOM_9, I like this idea. Tio Hector wants revenge for the killing of his grandson, poisons Jesse's home in some way that perhaps resembles ricin (we don't have confirmation that it is ricin, just that they are treating it like a poisoning of some kind). Gus obviously has access to poisons to put in tequila, he must have a whole bunch of options. But Hector might, too.
October 3, 2011 at 2:37AM ESTdaddle In that sceenario of Tio Hector as poisoner, the boy would die. If it were Gus, he'd have the same end result bu just making to boy ill, with an air of mustsery/consern
October 3, 2011 at 2:40AM ESTjoeyjojo "The ricin. I would need to know how Gus found out about the ricin."
October 3, 2011 at 3:23AM ESTThat bootleg early copy of Rage is bugged.
Dave I The "Behind the Scenes" video on AMC mentioned in one of the comments before is telling. http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/inside-breaking-bad-episode-412-end-times
October 3, 2011 at 10:23AM ESTWHAT it's telling is up for debate, but it does a nice job of explaining Gus' mindset and how/why he figures out the car is somehow rigged. However, (minor spoiler, maybe) it implies Gus was tipped off by Jesse's mentioning of the poison. I'm not sure if that tips him off to Jesse realizing Gus poisoned Brock & is complicit with some plan of Walt's, or if it tips him off that Brock was poisoned at all meaning Gus had nothing to do with it and that Walt poisoned Brock and is using that to coerce Jesse into betraying Gus. So Gus either knows everything and was tipped off by Jesse's reaction when telling Gus about Brock being poisoned that something was wrong (since in that case Gus would no doubt be hoping Jesse would be saying "it had to be Mr. White, go get him), or Gus knows nothing and the whole thing strikes him as dangerous since the only chemist likely to be involved in poisoning Jesse's friend's son would be Walt and everytime Walt has cooked up some plan it has not really worked out too well for Gus (or Walt for that matter).
Really, while I understand Gus' mindset better, and his reactions make sense, I still have just as many questions about who did it, how they got the risin cigarette out of Jesse's pack in the first place with such a small window to do so, and how it all played out.
-Cheers
mtk41 Great idea. I'm sure Tio rang out the whole plan on his bell.
October 4, 2011 at 11:56AM ESTDave I "mtk41 Great idea. I'm sure Tio rang out the whole plan on his bell."
October 4, 2011 at 8:21PM ESTTotally! Morse Code Baby!!!
-Cheers
Scoot Yeah, ridiculous. It's not as if we've seen Tio communicate by spelling or writing before. Except those times that we did.
October 6, 2011 at 10:22AM ESTBloody Phantasm How funny would it be if Walt convinced tio to let him plant a bomb in his wheelchair, so he could blow up Gus by ringing the bell?
October 6, 2011 at 1:07PM ESTDave I Hey Scoot. All joking aside, it is a pretty good guess nobody is going to see Tio. To whom would he communicate that plan? Period? Much less somebody that would actually do anything about it. All his family and friends are destroyed. Anybody that might have slipped through the cracks and NOT been killed by Gus (which seems likely to be nobody, Gus is pretty calculating) is probably not close enough to Tio to visit, much less wait out him scrawling (or ring) out his revenge plan and then actually acting it out against the currently undisputed winner of the war between Los Pollos and the Mexican Cartel (well Don Elaido and all of Tio's former, and currently deceased, partners at least).
October 7, 2011 at 11:26AM ESTBesides, even if Tio can still spell, it is not very practical. When Tuco was in the process of being poisoned, he used his bell to very crudely keep Walt from poisoning him. If he could write with any practicality, why not just give him a pad and have him write what happened, rather than ring his bell, point at Walt, and then try and have Tuco try to figure out what was going on?
-Cheers
Scoot Well, we know someone in Gus' org is working for the cartel. That's how they knew about the trucks and buckets. The obvious suspect is Tyrus, so let's say it's him. Being cartel, he'd still be in contact with Tio. Tio doesn't have to say anymore than, say, "Get Pinkman". Tyrus does the rest.
October 9, 2011 at 1:30PM ESTDave I Well Scoot, while I could imagine a world where that is a possibility ("that" meaning somebody spying in Gus' organization for the cartel), I don't think that's what the writers had in mind. First, Gus seems meticulous enough to have sniffed out somebody before they got that close to him (although, I suppose it's happened in real life enough). Even if that's not the case, it seemed more like the Cartel was just sort of scouting for the trucking routs and the somehow had found out about the buckets (or maybe it's a trade secret how they're marked). If not, they should have been aware Mike was in the truck the first time, whereas they learned from experience. Even if all of that is wrong, if you are right and there is an inside man spying on Gus (which, for the record, I do not believe, but as always I'm open to being wrong), why would they get Pinkman now? Anybody who was close enough to go on a suicide mission like that would seem likely to have surfaced by now. Anybody NOT that close to Tio has no motivation since Tio is rotting as a living deadman stuck inside his non-functional body and the other motivations would be likely tied to Don Elaido, who has since gotten himself deceased.
October 9, 2011 at 3:05PM ESTI'm fine if I end up being wrong, but at this point I think the stories of Don Elaido, Tio, and anything to do with that part of the series arc is probably dead. Maybe the NEW cartel leaders, whomever rises up in the vacuum, factor in somehow, however I think Tio, Don E., and probably soon to be Gus, are all wrapped up with a nice, neat little bow.
-Cheers
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