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Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 31

'Parks & Recreation' co-creator Mike Schur joins Sepinwall and Fienberg to talk 'The Wire' and 'Sopranos'

By Daniel Fienberg Monday, Aug 23, 2010 2:40 PM

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Happy Monday, boys and girls. Time for a very special edition of The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast.

Why is it very special?

Well, for the very first time, we welcome a special guest. "Parks and Recreation" mastermind Michael Schur dropped by for an epic conversation about "The Sopranos" and "The Wire," naturally. If you're a fan of both shows -- and really, who isn't? -- it's a great discussion.

Then, after Mike departed to go work on that hilarious comedy of his -- returning to NBC at midseason some point -- we went about the usual business of talking "Mad Men," specifically "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword."
 
Be aware that the "Wire"/"Sopranos" chat is spoiler-y.
 
Here's the simple breakdown:
 
"Wire"/"Sopranos" talk with special guest Mike Schur -- 00:00 - 50:50
"Mad Men" --  52:30 - 01:07:20

As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]

And here's this week's podcast...

Firewall & Iceberg - Podcast 31

Dan-feinberg-sm
Daniel Fienberg
Executive Editor
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
Related Searches: Firewall & Iceberg, daniel fienberg, Alan Sepinwall, Podcast, Mad Men, Mike Schur, Parks and Recreation, The Sopranos, The Wire

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  • Summer09hitfix_talkback_profile

    gregel

    They like this

    August 23, 2010 at 4:04PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Eike

    Hi Alan!
    I love your podcast. Could you include cover art in the MP3 files so that the podcast shows up nicely in iTunes? That would be awesome. Thanks!

    August 23, 2010 at 4:12PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall iTunes has our cover art, and it shows up sometimes with the podcasts, but not others. We have no idea why.

      August 24, 2010 at 9:36AM EST
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    rondo93

    are you guys going to talk about the Lost epilogue: The New Man In Charge?

    August 23, 2010 at 5:20PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Sareeta

    The Sopranos/The Wire discussion was awesome. I've only seen the first season and last episode of The Sopranos, but I've seen all of The Wire. With The Sopranos, I was able to watch it in a detached sort of way. Few characters had an affect on me, mainly because so many characters were just so evil. With The Wire, the characters were presented from all angles, so it was possible to sympathize with many of the characters throughout the series, despite the awful things they did.

    August 23, 2010 at 8:50PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Rick

    Will there ever be a day when The Shield will be in the discussion? The reason Schur mentions it at all is because it has such a perfect ending, but the entire series has such a strong viewpoint, perfectly cast characters, and tight plotline that not only should it be part of that discussion, I would argue that it wins the argument.

    August 23, 2010 at 10:26PM EST Reply to Comment
  • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

    Mulderism

    I'll throw in my $0.02 on the Sopranos/Wire debate.

    I just saw the entire run of The Wire a few months ago for the first time and absolutely loved it.

    I watched the Sopranos from the beginning and have watched the entire run at least 3 times.

    I will definitely revisit the Wire at some point but I'm going to have to give the nod to the Sopranos. I think this show is something I will never get tired of and could watch the whole series 10 times.

    While I would definitely get more out of the Wire on repeat viewings, I think the entertainment value will eventually drop for me. Whereas I don't think the Sopranos will taper off as much.

    Not to take anything away from the Wire. It is a very close second.

    I'm one of the few that liked the ending to the Sopranos. To have Tony killed in the diner would have been very unsatisfying to me and I'd argue that it didn't make sense. There was no reason for New York to have Tony killed and to have someone kill him for a past vendetta would not sit well with me. Tony is an anti-hero and I want him to live forever. I'd hate to see him die or rot away in prison. The final scene of the Sopranos was absolutely brilliant and I can't think of a better way to conclude the series.

    August 24, 2010 at 12:07AM EST Reply to Comment
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    Talbot

    How are any astute readers supposed to take these guys seriously when they reason that The Sopranos went downhill during the last few seasons?

    They also miss the obvious suggestion of the final scene. Schur is the most offensive here; Tony isn't in any sort of personal hell in the final scene, he's happy and unaware. Tony's death is only "off screen" in the sense that you don't see it, but the editing suggests Tony's death is on screen but shown through Tony's eyes rather than third-person.

    These three are as irrationally committed to notions of ambiguity as other people are to their notions of definitive answers. Ambiguity is itself an interpretative choice, and doesn't give you any insurance against interpreting a text incorrectly. David Chase explained to TV actor and sometime radio host Richard Belzer that we're meant to intepret Tony died in the final scene.

    I feel like you're struggling to cling to your trendy post-modern-y ambiguity interpretation as waves of textual evidence and authorial intent come crashing down.

    Chase says "yes, the "never hear it happen" when you get shot at the end is a clue" but you're so invested in your shiny new postmodernism you've decided to expunge the unpleasant fact. I don't have the time to find the Sopranos end blog cited in the podcast but it explains it perfectly.

    It's time to admit your initial interpretation was wrong and simply man up.

    August 24, 2010 at 12:14AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Jeff_avatar_2_talkback_profile

      Mulderism This is news to me. I read that Chase intended the ending to be ambiguous. Here are some quotes from the "Made in America" wiki page:

      Chase has made various comments about the finale; however, he has not provided an explanation to the meaning of the final scene. In his first interview after the broadcast of the finale with New Jersey paper The Star Ledger, Chase stated "I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there. No one was trying to be audacious, honest to God. We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds, or thinking, 'Wow, this'll piss them off.' People get the impression that you're trying to fuck with them and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them. [...] Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there."

      ---

      On the fans of the show, Chase remarks "They had gleefully watched him rob, kill, pillage, lie, and cheat. They had cheered him on. And then, all of a sudden, they wanted to see him punished for all that. They wanted 'justice.' They wanted to see his brains splattered on the wall. I thought that was disgusting, frankly. [...] The pathetic thing—to me—was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."

      ---
      Excerpts from the Belzer interview:

      # R.Belzer: I was working with Steve Schirripa recently, we were judging Last Coming Standing for NBC and we were talking about a lot of things and he was saying he heard all of these theories for the show that had nothing to do with your intention and wasn't anything the actors thought, like little hints along the way, like a word, like when Tony and Steve are on the boat at the lake and they say "you never know it's gonna happen" or "you never know it's gonna hit you."
      # D.Chase: That was part of the ending.
      # R.Belzer: Oh, it was? See, what do I know? Were there other things in previous episodes that were hints towards it?
      # D.Chase: There was that and there was a shooting which Silvio was a witness, well he wasn't a witness, he was eating dinner with a couple of hookers and with some other guy and there was some visual stuff that went on there which sort of amplified Tony's remarks to Bacala about you know "you don't know it's happened" or "you won't know it happened when it hits you". That's about it."

      ---
      I'm not convinced that this is an admission that Tony was killed.

      August 24, 2010 at 1:11AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      GetReal!! If you're not convinced that Tony was killed after reading that interview then Dr. Melfi may diagnose you with a severe case of psycholgical denial.

      August 24, 2010 at 9:18AM EST
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    magneto

    ALAN,
    we heard dan's take on january jones acting(which i think is brilliant and wonderfully restrained) what is yours?

    i enjoyed the podcast so much! thanks. i watched the sopranos in its entirety twice but i havent watched the wire yet. im planning to start on the wire this weekend.

    August 24, 2010 at 11:02AM EST Reply to Comment
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    7s Tim

    Is hot blonde doctor southern? Sounded like a weird NY/NJ accent or something along those lines in her opening scene.

    August 24, 2010 at 5:44PM EST Reply to Comment
    • Default-avatar

      7s Tim or I misheard you guys talking about a different character...never you mind...

      August 24, 2010 at 5:49PM EST
    • Midnight_run_mca255950_talkback_profile

      sepinwall We were talking about Phoebe, the nurse who lives down the hall from Don.

      August 24, 2010 at 6:01PM EST
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    DD

    im a huge mad men fan and am in complete awe of matt weiner's genius but i think he may be a little too brash. watch this video about him talking about casting the women of the show. watch the end part where he talks about casting betty. i would imagine january jones pretty much feeling shitty hearing that from matt. i am SO rooting for her for the emmys now more than ever.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaEQICY7Gw

    August 26, 2010 at 9:50AM EST Reply to Comment
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    MsHopr

    Awesome podcast! I can't decide which show is my fave. Guess I'll have to watch them again. :)

    September 2, 2010 at 8:47AM EST Reply to Comment
  • Mom_s_camera_076_talkback_profile

    MsHopr

    They like this

    September 2, 2010 at 8:48AM EST Reply to Comment

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