Listen: Firewall & Iceberg Podcast No. 108 - Best of 2011
Dan and Alan go through the year's TV highlights
Happy Tuesday, Boys & Girls.
It's time for our special Best of 2011 Podcast.
In this podcast, Alan and I discuss our Top 10 lists for the 2011 calendar year. Alan's Top 10 list is already up. Mine isn't. So I guess that makes it a surprise! Mine'll be up in video form in the next day or two.
Then, after a long discussion of the year's highlights, we spend a good chunk of time on the finale of "Homeland." It's a nice and extra-long podcast, which'll make up for the fact that next week's podcast -- Worst of 2011!!! -- also won't go up before Tuesday.
As a caveat, I say "s***" once during this podcast. While that would barely earn this podcast a PG rating, we know some of you listen with impressionable youngsters. Or something.
Anyway...
Today's basic breakdown:
TV's Best of 2011 (04:15 - 01:13:00)
"Homeland" finale (01:13:15 - 01:31:00)
As always, you can subscribe to The Firewall & Iceberg Podcast over at the iTunes Store, where you can also rate us and comment on us. [Or you can always follow our RSS Feed.]
A long-time member of the TCA Board and a longer-time blogger of "American Idol," Dan Fienberg writes about TV, except for when he writes about movies or sometimes writes about the Red Sox. But never music. He would sound stupid talking about music.
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupAndy
December 20, 2011 at 7:42PM EST Reply to CommentWhy can't Paul be nominated for Supporting Actor with Esposito? He's not exactly a lead.
December 20, 2011 at 8:15PM EST-Daniel
Stacy But the acting voters seem to like the show especially the acting. I think if Aaron Paul was able to get a nomination after the second season (being an unknown young actor) it's not too unrealistic to think two supporting actors can get nominated.
December 20, 2011 at 9:00PM ESTEither way, I do agree that Paul is indeed a co-lead.
bh
December 20, 2011 at 8:00PM EST Reply to CommentHmmm... so after watching Game of Thrones, I picked up the first book and read the first 100 pages or so. Am I the only person that thinks it is exceedingly badly written? I greatly enjoyed the show, and I'm sure some of the character dynamics are deeper in the books (though for me, the depth of those dynamics in the show came more from the performances than the writing), but I couldn't get past the fact that the writing seemed so stilted, like a bad imitation of Tolkein (minus the wit). I'm not sure if the writing on the show is all that much less stilted, but it certainly helps when it is read aloud by a cast that convincing.
James The writing does get somewhat better as it goes along, but yeah, Martin is a much better imaginer than a technical writer. If I had known it would eventually be a tv show, I would have never read the books
December 20, 2011 at 10:31PM ESTLJA @BH After *loving* season one of Thrones, I read a sampling of the first book on the internet, and I agree with you.
December 21, 2011 at 2:21AM ESTJorge I never had a problem with his writing. It's not classic literature or anything, but I think it's as well written as LOTR and better than Harry Potter or other popular fiction.
December 21, 2011 at 6:02AM ESTBeet-a-roni It's not great. And he writes too much. It only gets worse as the books go on. And then there's where he takes his story. I don't want to break any spoiler rule, but I don't see how they'll keep the TV show good as the books get worse and worse. I like the show. I think the writers should vere the plot away from the books if they get into a season 3 or 4. They can probably do better on their own. Hope I didn't break a rule here. I mean people can obviously judge for themselves down the road.
December 21, 2011 at 9:11AM ESTgladly I actually feel the opposite way. I was fine reading that overly formal dialogue on the page, but it makes me cringe on the show. The Dothraki speech in person was one of the worst moments of the show for me. For some reason, seeing actual people say and do these things makes the action seem much sillier than it does in the books. I've only made it through two books though.
December 21, 2011 at 1:33PM ESTityoj_danr
December 20, 2011 at 9:28PM EST Reply to CommentThis is just quibbling over semantics but if you are going to put P&R or FNL over BB you should perhaps rename these lists as your top 10 favorites as opposed to top 10 or top 10 best. Also disappointed that Curb did not make either list, I hope when discussing the best eps at least a couple of Curb episodes will get a mention. Happy to see TVD make Dan's list, IMO its consistently fun and riveting enough to warrant an even higher place.
713 What would these lists be if not their opinions? You can't objectively say that one show is better than another.
December 20, 2011 at 9:50PM ESTPhil I think you're confused. When did you empirically prove that Breaking Bad was the best show of the year? Can you show me your work? I'm pretty sure it's a work of art and, you know, subjective. As is the word "best". Not to quibble over semantics.
December 21, 2011 at 2:48AM EST713
December 20, 2011 at 9:44PM EST Reply to CommentSeason 3 of Parks and Rec was great, but I disagree with there being no misses in the bunch. I thought the Twilight episode and the Eagleton episode were both flat.
tag8833 I thought "The Bubble" S3E15 was the worst episode Parks has ever done. "The Fight" S3E13 was the 2nd worst, and I also didn't care for "Eagleton" or "Time Capsule". Many more misses for me than Season 2.
December 21, 2011 at 12:26AM ESTI don't understand the appeal of "Jerry's Painting." To me it was an ok episode. Slightly less funny than the average Parks, but most reviews hype it as a standout episode.
Personally, I think season 4 has been shaping up to be a much stronger season than season 3. I think a narrative developed around season 3 after it had aired that made many people forget its missteps. In the same way that Dan and I forgot about the missing money sub-plot on Justified.
belinda
December 20, 2011 at 9:56PM EST Reply to CommentWhat? No slash fanfics about Sepinwall and Fienberg?
Poop.
Pedak Damn Sepin, you lookin Fien!
December 21, 2011 at 7:26AM ESTJohn
December 21, 2011 at 2:02AM EST Reply to CommentSlight disagreement because I've been rewatching S1 of Breaking Bad - although students may not like him, parents and teachers seem to like Walter White.
EdithKeeler
December 21, 2011 at 2:15AM EST Reply to CommentI am going to be FASCINATED by Dan's verdict on Season2 of Downton Abbey. I shall say no more until those posts.
Uchenna
December 21, 2011 at 10:18AM EST Reply to CommentThank you Dan for so completely articulating my feelings about "Community" (especially about the Glee episode)!
tag8833 To me, the fact that it is so random, one-sided, and too late makes it even funnier.
December 21, 2011 at 4:38PM ESTI really don't think Community or its fans have any real rivalry with Glee and its fans. Community has rivalries with Modern Family and Parks and Rec, because those shows get recognition that Community and its fans feel like it deservse more.
Tausif Khan I was a Glee fan because it was doing something experimental and making big choices so I watched it because of that hoping that they would make it into something insightful.
December 22, 2011 at 7:25AM ESTI didn't start watching Community until its second season. I fell in love with the show.
I have been getting tired of treading the same ground and treating its minority cast members terrible (very little story and sometimes when there is it is very bad). This lethargy over Glee became so overpowering that I eventually had trouble keeping up with the show, I was catching up on Hulu as I was busy most Tuesdays.
This episode of Glee made me realize that I was done with Glee. Because of the reasons I listed above and because Community showed me the promise of what a great ensemble cast and sharp wit can do to make a show great. I realized I was done with Glee.
Community is now my favorite show on television. It has taken the place of Scrubs in my mind as go to comedy.
Tyler
December 21, 2011 at 2:23PM EST Reply to CommentIn the hospital, Saul never told Carrie that Issa was the name of Abu Nazir's youngest son, so, presumably, she put it together at the end because she knows so much about Abu Nazir and knows the names of his children. Why didn't she put that together when she first heard Brody call out Issa's name? That makes no sense based on what we've seen of Carrie.
Neeek
December 21, 2011 at 3:21PM EST Reply to CommentRegarding your Downton Abbey comments, do you have trouble understanding what an entailment is and how it works in general or just in the context of the show?
Tausif Khan If you have seen the series the exact financial problems through which the rich people are going through to keep an estate the don't own but are just caretakers of (confused already?) are very complicated and will take multiple viewings to understand all of the various ramifications that will face the family is they don't find an heir (is that the problem facing the family or are there others that complicate this issue?). It is quite complicated and like Alan nothing that I care to revisit just to figure out the the various economic and power implications that will result if things don't go their way.
December 22, 2011 at 7:18AM ESTRobin
December 21, 2011 at 4:35PM EST Reply to CommentYea! for Vampire Diaries! I am catching up with it on Netflix (in the midst of S2 right now) and I have been ridiculously impressed with both the cast and the writing.
Alan's loss for not watching it.
Tausif Khan
December 22, 2011 at 6:48AM EST Reply to CommentSo I have two problems with this discussion.
1) There is a perception that Community is good because it turns tricks well. The tricks being the numerous pop culture references.
I feel that Dan has a misreading of the Community Glee parody Christmas episode. Community didn't just reference Glee to reference Glee it had a point. Yes there were the overt one liners (What are regionals? and the joke about the guy at the piano) but it had a larger point to the reference. It wasn't just about who was cooler. Part of the parody was there I believe because Glee is such a sensation yes. However, if you take the episode as a whole it is saying something much more important. This episode of Community directly deals with the idea that Todd Van Der Werff put out early on about the best version of Glee which would be showing that the Glee that is presented on stage is just something for a performance and a little to do with friendship but mainly the Glee was to mask the sadness of their own lives.
This is a message that Dan Harmon fully embraces, that the people in the study group have a lot that is terrible in their lives but the adventures they partake in give them something to feel good about and keep going.
There is a particular moment at the end of the Community episode which was particularly resonant. It was when Britta was booed for singing terribly but then the broader community of the college came together to cheer her own to sing anyway. It demonstrates the power of coming together and supporting fellow people and hearing what they have to say, or sing no matter the quality. It was a repudiation of the notion of competition as a driving force to bring people together and that community (hey that's the name of the show) with the potential to love all people regardless of who they are or what they can do is what makes us feel good and loved. It is a statement about the core of what Community is as a show. It was a great statement and move the show past pop culture reference to saying something brilliant about society.
This directly point directly criticizes one of the ideas presented at the beginning of this season of Glee which was the girl with the "self-diagnosed Asperger's syndrome" who felt that allowed her to say anything she wanted. The main cast didn't hate her for putting down people with Asperger's they just hated her for not being a good singer. No one even called her on it.
Moreover the point of that seemed to me to be -Asperger's? There is a disease that allows someone to justify being intransigent and mean? That's just wrong. People should be able to hate whoever they want. Even if that person has a disease. Also, really Aspergers sounds made up.
The reason why this applies to Britta's situation is because Britta constantly screws up social situations through her own tough personality. However, unlike Glee Community embraces Britta's tough personality rather than always making fun of her. She is becoming a part of the community. Glee on the other hand creates a straw girl Aspergers character to make fun of people who care about people with Aspergers.
Community was making a statement about society through a Glee parody and pointing out how Glee isn't right about its concept of society and what will help us feel better or bring us through the pain and sadness in our lives.
I will bring up my second qualm in the next post.
Tausif Khan
December 22, 2011 at 7:08AM EST Reply to Comment2) The other qualm I had was with Dan's comment on Downton Abbey. One thing that Dan did not mention in his commentary that is important to understanding the context for Fellows work is this:
Julian Fellows is not just Jullian Fellows he is:
The Right Honourable The Lord Fellowes of West Stafford
In 2011, Fellowes was ennobled as a life peer of the House of Lords with the name, style and title of Baron Fellowes of West Stafford, of West Stafford in the County of Dorset. He took up his seat on 13 January 2011. He sits on the Conservative government benches, as a long-term supporter of the Party.
That being said his reason for writing the series I think is quite interesting and wonderful. He essentially takes the lens that William Faulkner took to the end of Southern gentility and aristocracy towards the end of the 19th century in that Faulkner wanted to see how the transition to a new world affected people.
It tries they very beliefs of the rich which societal transformations take place. This is the angle Fellows is taking in this piece which I like.
The idea of "It tries they very beliefs of the rich which societal transformations take place." Is one which is deeply affecting Maggie Smith's character. However, I don't believe we are meant to sympathize with Maggie Smith's character as essentially all she does is boss people around. The end of the victorian age was a signal to the moneyed class of England who did not know what a weekend was that merit was soon going to become the value around which people would be judged. Maggie Smith's character is still firmly trying to hold on to her old world power and making her families life a living hell to do it without a care to how they feel.
Because of this I agree with Alan's interpretation of the character. Once again it is important to note that Alan is pointing out that he hates the character and not Maggie Smith. If you go back an look at Alan's review of Downton Abbey he wrote "Maggie Smith's right eyebrow could out act the entire CW". So I agree with Alan's point that the character Smith is playing is insufferable. I believe she is meant to be.
That being said I don't know why you are chastising Alan for being a populist. If I remember correctly, it was Dan who was angry at Audi for making a commercial where people who lived in estates were climbing out of windows to run away from their BMWs and Mercedes to go to Audis. Dan specifically didn't like the commercial because he did not understand who this commercial was trying to speak to and who could possibly to relate to such a message. When Alan talked about this commercial on the podcast Dan said that he didn't understand how Alan liked the commercial and that because he did "hitfix was probably paying him too much."
So I think the charges of populism are off base.
I think Alan is right to dislike the Maggie Smith character.
Tausif Khan
December 22, 2011 at 7:13AM EST Reply to CommentTo me Parenthood is the current best drama on broadcast television.
Yes, its stakes are not as high as those of Friday Night Lights but there is not driving story in Parenthood. Parenthood is a documentation of the trials and tribulations of a upper middle class family in Berkeley, CA. The acting is great and the writing gets better with each episode. If you watch the inside the writers room segments on Hulu you can see all of the tensions and important questions that the writers of Parenthood are dealing with when they write the characters and the different dilemmas that the characters are going through.