Cannes Film Festival 2013

A look at the new doc 'The People Vs George Lucas' and the victim culture surrounding 'Star Wars'

How many years will the fanboy community cry the same song?

<p>George Lucas and his uneasy relationship with fandom is the subject of the new documentary 'The People Vs George Lucas'</p>

George Lucas and his uneasy relationship with fandom is the subject of the new documentary 'The People Vs George Lucas'

Credit: Exhibit A Pictures

When I was at Wondercon last week, someone at the Warner Bros. panel asked Sylvain White, the director of "The Losers," how he got into filmmaking.  I think they were asking more in terms of "What steps did you go through to get into the director's chair?", but he answered it a different way.  "When I was eight years old, I had a life-changing religious event in the movie theater," he said.  "My parents took me to see 'Star Wars.'"

How many people had that same life-changing religious event?  I know I did, and it seems like every filmmaker roughly my age can say the same thing.  The original "Star Wars" trilogy was a hugely important and beloved cultural event that lasted for six years, and during those six years, it was an amazing, intoxicating lovefest for the world and the characters created by George Lucas.

Fast forward to the past week, where "Mr. Plinkett" of Red Letter Media is the nerd du jour thanks to his just-released nine-part video review of the 2002 film "Star Wars: Attack Of The Clones."  His review last year of "The Phantom Menace" made him a cult figure in fandom, and he seems to be a perfect example of the corner of pop culture that gave rise to the documentary I saw at this year's SXSW festival, "The People Vs. George Lucas."  Directed by Alexandre O. Philippe, the title would imply that it's a sort of mock trial of George Lucas for the crimes he's committed against fandom.  It's more or less another slice-of-fandom film that makes a few arguments for Lucas as a hypocrite without really landing any serious points.  If anything, the sheer scope of the subculture that still exists around fandom refutes the idea that Lucas did something "wrong."  For all of the tears that have been spilled, "Star Wars" remains an incredibly healthy overall property in terms of enthusiasm around the world among all ages.  It's just that one part of that fandom, a very specific part, has managed to become the most vocal.

And frankly, I'm tired of it.

This is not because I am a rabid defender of the second trilogy of "Star Wars" films released between 1999 and 2005.  I'm not.  I think all three films have some pretty basic problems.  However, I think they are, at the very worst, average Hollywood empty calorie junk.  No worse than most, no better than most.   This is because I have never seen a stranger, more off-putting display of first-world-problems victim culture hogwash than with people who have spent the last ten years comparing a trilogy of films they dislike to actual sexual violence.  It is jaw-dropping, and if there was any one thing that led to me taking a step away from the collective energy called "fandom," it was this.

I understand being disappointed with a film, especially films that come with the staggering expectations that were affixed to new "Star Wars" movies.  Anyone who cares deeply about films has suffered many, many disappointments in their life as a film fan... it's inevitable.  One of the reasons I first started writing film criticism was to explain why things did or didn't work for me as a viewer, more for me to sort it out than because I thought anyone else would care.  Even today, writing about a film is part of the way I process a film.  It's one thing to have a gut reaction in a theater, but sorting it out and making sense of why I reacted the way I did... that's important to me.  In the case of the "Star Wars" prequels, I remember publishing my review of "The Phantom Menace" before it came out, and then taking a ton of heat over daring to say it was anything less than perfect and amazing.  Between the films, I ran these discussion groups on Ain't It Cool that were published under the name "The Jedi Council," and they were anything but gushing lovefests.  They were an attempt to bring together people who represented the full spectrum of fandom.  Some of the people who participated hated the prequels.  Some loved them.  Some were deeply conflicted and working out their feelings.  But what really made those meetings great was the acknowledgment that we all started from the same place of fandom, and the wide range of reactions didn't change that baseline dialogue we were able to have.

Philippe's film is an amazing display of hubris, an attempt to make a name for himself by taking shots at a pop culture cornerstone.  If there was anything new in his movie, any argument that we hadn't already heard a dozen times before, then maybe there would be some value to the film.  Instead, it's a weakly organized hodge-podge of random points, and the film never figures out exactly what it is that Lucas is alleged to have done to fandom to deserve a trial.  The one honest thing about the movie is the way it never really commits to its rancor.  Just like fandom in general, the film wants to be above all things "Star Wars," but more than anything, it just reinforces how much headspace the films still occupy for any fans as time wears on.  Have you seen the cover of Entertainment Weekly this week?  Oh, look, there's Chewbacca and Princess Leia.  "But those are the original films.  That's different."  True, but the CGI "Clone Wars" series is still going strong, and I would argue that the franchise has never been stronger for young fans.  There are three more television series in development right now, including the live-action show, and although Toshi hasn't seen any of the feature films yet, he's already totally hooked on the iconography of the world.  He loves the characters.  He loves lightsabers.  He loves Jedi and Sith and spaceships and all of the trappings.  When I do finally show him the movies in a few years, I'll do it in a very particular order that includes the prequels.  He'll see Episode IV, then Episode V, and then, using "Luke, I am your father" as the instigator, I'll use the prequels as a flashback, and then wrap things up with Episode VI.  I was talking to a friend about this the other day and he gave me a look like I just sharted.  "You're not really going to show those to your son, are you?"  He was genuinely incredulous.

And that's where fandom loses me.  I think the prequels have problems, but I'll be honest... I think "Jedi" has problems, too.  Overall, I love the world of "Star Wars," and I look back at the time I spent growing up immersed in that world as valuable.  When I share the films with my kids, my job isn't to order them to love only what I love, and my job isn't to tell him what he's allowed to like.  It's to make things available to him, to set a context, and then to help him process what he watches.  The "Star Wars" series is six films long as far as I'm concerned.  And if you feel differently, there's an easy way to handle it.

It's not making nine-part videos in a silly voice in which you rehash the same points people have been making for a decade.

And it's not loudly screaming about how someone "raped" you every time the series is mentioned.

If you really hate the "Star Wars" prequels and the "Star Wars" special editions, all you have to do is never watch them again.  Problem solved.  You don't like anything about the CGI animated show?  Don't watch it.  No one is going to force you.  There is no quiz.  The things I choose to revisit are the things that give me pleasure, not the things I despise.  The people who are still whining in public about "The Phantom Menace" in the year 2010 blow my mind.  It's like if I constantly talked about the James Bond franchise, but the only films I ever brought up were "Moonraker" and "A View To A Kill."  My favorite book of all time is John Irving's A Prayer For Owen Meany, so would it seem like a rational thing for me to do to make a 110-minute video review in which I spend the entire time crying about "Simon Birch"?

If you really loved the Mr. Plinkett videos, I'm happy you found some pleasure in them.  And maybe you'll get more out of the whiny and unfocused "The People Vs. George Lucas."  But I honestly think that at this point, a decade after the prequels were released, it feels like manchild syndrome writ large, entitled fandom out of control.

And at this point, I want no part of it.

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Next 107 Comments
  • Default-avatar

    cappsj

    Remember when you weren’t going to write about Star Wars ever again? Or what that just on AICN? Because your love/hate relationship with Star Wars is no different than that of "fandom". Only you act as though your above it.

    April 9, 2010 at 8:37PM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew I don't have a "Love/hate" relationship with it. I've NEVER EVER been one of these entitled idiots crying about what George Lucas owes them. No one did anything untoward to my childhood. Having a critical reaction to the movies while they were in theaters and part of the cultural conversation is one thing... but if you think I'm working up an angry letter about some plot point in "Episode III" and losing sleep over it, you're wrong.

      Go find the articles where I've indulged this crybaby nonsense and been guilty of it. I'd love to read them.

      The only reason I ever bring it up at all these days is when I am specifically pushed into it, as with this film or with the barrage of e-mails saying, "Dude, go check out the awesome genius of Mr. Plinkett." And frankly, I'm not reviewing "Star Wars" in this piece... I'm talking about fandom, and that's a separate (although deeply inbred) beast.

      April 9, 2010 at 9:02PM EST
  • Default-avatar

    Dryden

    Yes Sir. I mean, YES SIR! I agree with everything, and this line in particular: "This is because I have never seen a stranger, more off-putting display of first-world-problems victim culture hogwash than with people who have spent the last ten years comparing a trilogy of films they dislike to actual sexual violence."

    Absolutely. I'm not a fan of the prequels, but I have no use for the group of commenters who celebrate cynicism.

    April 9, 2010 at 8:41PM EST Reply to Comment
  • Default-avatar

    Daddy Geek Boy

    I agree with you, save for the Mr. Plinkett videos. Those are an incredibly insightful analysis of where the prequels went wrong.

    I hate the "raped my childhood" sentiment because of its utter lunacy. The original movies still exist, even in their original forms. As long as you can still go back and watch those movies anytime you want, nothing has been raped.

    I too am over being angry at the prequels. What makes me disappointed about them is the loss of what could have been. The prequels could have been great. But at the same time, so could've the Transformer movies. They suck, so I'm moving on.

    My childhood was formed around the original trilogy. At the time, they stood alone as epic, groundbreaking entertainment. But there are so many more choices today. If my kids decide to like Harry Potter more than Star Wars, that's their choice. If they like the prequels over the original, so be it.

    I've already lived my childhood. The only way that it can be "raped" is if somebody invents a time machine, goes back, shows me half of EMPIRE, and tells me that I can never watch the whole thing.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:09PM EST Reply to Comment
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    cappsj

    "I don't have a "Love/hate" relationship with it." Ok well it's more like you love Star Wars, and the people who made it hate you. And honestly when you went on this weird rant I forgot it was even a movie review. Only when I read your response did I remember what the blog post was originally about.

    You seem to go on at least one of these "fandom" rants a month. You should change the title of your blog to The Answer To A Question No One Asked...with Drew McWeeny.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:11PM EST Reply to Comment
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    Abacus Finch

    Fanboy culture in general bothers me, whether it be anti-Lucas folks or pro-Apple folks. Is The Phantom Menace a great movie? Not really, but you know what? I saw that movie SIX times in the theaters in '99. And I loved every minute of it. Did I get caught up in the hype or whatever? Looking back, I'd say yes but it doesn't negate the joy I had watching it. I hated Clones and Sith was just OK. More than anything, I just wish Lucas would move to some new territory.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:16PM EST Reply to Comment


  • Thank you for this. I really enjoyed it, even as a fan of the prequels. (Though I do think that a prequel trilogy reboot would be cool, I still enjoy them.) I appreciate, however, your article about the fandom. Quite frankly, I'm sick of that subculture of Star Wars fandom, and have also stepped away from that side of the "fans." In part because of Peter Jackson's brilliant Lord of the Rings, which took their place as the most inspirational movie trilogy to my mind than Star Wars (which I only discovered in Junior High, just a few short years before the Special Editions hit theaters).

    Anyhow, I just wanted to thank you for writing this level-headed piece, and am glad that you have spoken up about something that few have.

    To paraphrase Winston Zeddemore: It's always the loud ones.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:18PM EST Reply to Comment
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    whiterok

    Excellent post! I definitely agree with your assessment of this sad phenomenon. I think the prequels are trash, but I don't feel that Lucas owes me anything. Although I do have to say I enjoyed the first few chapters of Plinkett's Phantom Menace review. I think he makes some good points about what films generally need in them to work. Unfortunately, the review starts to ramble, and you realize just how much time he must spend obsessing over a movie that he despises. Sad really.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:21PM EST Reply to Comment
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    d jaf

    I can't decide who is funnier, the people who obsessively hate the prequels, or the people who obsessively hate the people who obsessively hate the prequels. So weird.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:28PM EST Reply to Comment
  • Default-avatar

    Peoplevs.thisArticle

    By saying the prequels are at worst "average Hollywood empty calorie junk" tells me that this dude was never really as big of Star Wars fan as he maybe thinks he is. That comment makes it sound like "they're bad, but they're not worse than any other midly enjoyable but overall bad hollywood movie." Anyone who really loved the originals, who understood how special they were, understands the massive dissapointment that can't be excused away by saying "oh hollywood makes bad movies all the time..get over it". I for one don't mind if for the rest of my life I hear REAL star wars fans discussing and dissecting how the same filmmaker could make both the best and worst films ever. The dissapointment and fanboy hate of the prequels in things like the 9 part reviews, are really just an expression of love for the originals which this guy just clearly doesn't get. And to be honest, those 9 part review things are ten times funnier than anything I've red in this review here.

    April 9, 2010 at 9:35PM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew They're not the worst films ever. They're not even remotely CLOSE to the worst films ever. That's the sort of irrational reaction that really distances me from the hyperbole of fandom these days.

      You should probably watch more than six films before you label three of the six "the worst movies ever made."

      April 9, 2010 at 10:06PM EST
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew His comedy routine is funnier than a short piece that looks at the state of fandom and reviews a documentary? Wow. That's hard to believe, considering I wasn't making any jokes in the article.

      April 9, 2010 at 11:02PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Matt Really?! 'Cos I was laughing at everything you just typed.

      April 10, 2010 at 3:34AM EST
  • Default-avatar

    junk

    For the record, I could care less about STAR WARS in general, and hate the prequels because they are bad films, not because they "ruined" anything.

    This is one of the most epic crybaby articles I've ever read. What is wrong with Mr. Plinkett thoughtfully and humorously dissecting deeply flawed films? Are you jealous because he does so better than run-of-the-mill internet reviewers can? Hyperbole is his style. If YOU don't like it, take some of your own advice.

    For all I know, THE PEOPLE VS GEORGE LUCAS sucks, but I can't imagine its fragmented and unsupported case against Lucas is any worse than your diatribe against pissed off fans.

    April 9, 2010 at 10:30PM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jelperman There's nothing "thoughtful" or "humorous" about Heathcliffe the Retard's videos.

      April 10, 2010 at 10:04PM EST
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    epitone

    I don't think the mass hatred has anything to do with the fact that Lucas made some shitty movies. I think it has to do with the fact that he made some shitty movies, they were hugely successful, and Lucas continues to be a major force in Hollywood. He's the anti-JJ Abrams, a guy who operates completely on his own agenda without giving a second thought as to what the climate is among the consumers of his products. The thing is, though, people tend to treat film like politics -- and it's not. I'll complain loudly and vociferously about, say, Sarah Palin only because I worry that she might actually gain some political power one day -- which would be to the detriment of politicians I support, and by extension, to me. But Lucas's success does not preclude other, better filmmakers from gaining a following. There's LOTS to choose from in film and TV; George Lucas is only producing a tiny percentage of it. In fact, the quality of movies being made during the years the prequels were released was arguably a good bit higher than it is now that Lucas has nothing in theaters.

    April 9, 2010 at 10:34PM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew I don't think he's much of a force at all, sadly. He painted himself into a box labelled "Star Wars and Indiana Jones," and outside of those two things, he doesn't really exist. He's easy to avoid if his work bothers you.

      Look, do I wish he'd followed a different career path after "Star Wars"? Sure. I love "Graffiti" as much as I love "Star Wars," and I think it's a shame he is relatively insignificant as a director these days. But that's his choice. And no matter what anyone says, that's how it is. That's why petitions and mock trials and angry diatribes ultimately mean nothing. He's spending his own money, and there are plenty of consumers still enjoying these things, so I doubt he's going to change it up any time soon.

      April 9, 2010 at 10:45PM EST
    • Default-avatar

      epitone I wonder to what extent his and Francis Coppola's career trajectories have affected each other. Both of them found huge success early on with one particular title/franchise, and neither of them has had much success outside of it. Coppola was dragged kicking and screaming back to the Godfather just to get his vineyard out of debt. Lucas continues to make Star Wars product because... well, I assume it's because he knows it will keep making him money as long as he wants. I can't imagine he feels much enthusiasm or even emotion toward what he's doing. That's what I find most depressing about the whole thing. The intensity, hunger, and spark you can see in the original trilogy just isn't there in the prequels. What *was* in them? A billion dollar marketing deal with PepsiCo.

      April 10, 2010 at 1:40PM EST
  • Default-avatar

    Chris

    Good article, and like several have already said, I largely agree, save for your take on the Pinkett videos.

    I don't think they're in anyway comparable to the aforementioned and inane "raped my childhood" sentiments, because when Pinkett calls the Star Wars prequels the "worst movies ever made" he's knowingly being hyperbolic. A solid percentage of the videos constitute satire (thus the live action segments), and even so, the criticism there is ultimately based on his meticulous deconstruction of Lucas' poor storytelling and lazy filmmaking.

    In a way, this whole thing kind of reminds me of the excellent argument you made in your Hot Tub Time Machine review. Just because a movie aims to be silly, that does not exempt it from criticism. The original Star Wars movies are great fun, but that doesn't mean the prequels are therefore untouchable. I'm a huge fan of the original Star Wars trilogy, and I dislike the prequels (well Revenge is admittedly pretty watchable) not out of some misguided feelings of betrayal, but because I thought they were poorly put together.

    That's the value of the Plinkett reviews: he's not Pauline Kael, but because of the format he is working in, he can dig into almost every aspect of how the prequels failed, in turn changing the argument from "they raped my childhood" to "they were pretty hastily made movies, and here is why." I'm not saying Plinkett is a great critic even, however I admire his stuff because he is able to move away from fanboy ranting and raving and really dig into why the film sucks, because it is funny in retrospect.

    Anyway, just my take on it. Love your writing and I'm glad you're making this part of the discussion, this is just my rebuttal.

    April 9, 2010 at 10:56PM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew The prequels certainly do not exist beyond criticism. I have criticised them, as have many, many others. My point is more that he's about ten years late to the party, and there is not one thing in any of his videos that I had not already heard or read. Plinkett's points may be good, but I'm not surprised. He can cherry-pick ten years of criticism to build his laundry list.

      April 9, 2010 at 11:01PM EST
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    Jeff

    I don't get wrapped up in this debate, and mainly read this article just because I enjoy reading "Moriarity's" take on things, but since you raised the topic: My only retort to the "if you don't like it, don't watch" or "no one is forcing you" is that I would *like* to watch the movie I saw as a kid, but Lucas very much doesn't want that version to be seen ever again. So there is some manner of forcing going on. First time I showed Star Wars to my kids, I dragged out my original-issue VHS copy (sorry, no laserdisc), which is as close to the original theatrical release as I can remember. Sadly, it's recorded in an outdated audio format, so would only play mono and is not widescreen. It would be *nice* to have the original to watch again, in all its glory.

    Perhaps part of the problem here is that Lucas (the corporation) is actively trying to usurp that childhood memory. How often does an adaptation do that? And, given the choice between "don't watch it" and "watch our revisionist version" people will do the latter, but they will not do so gladly. If the proper original were available, everyone could have what they want and could even vote with their wallets. But that power is not in the consumer's hands, and so they are left frustrated.

    April 9, 2010 at 11:46PM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew To be fair, there are DVD versions of the originals available. Yes, you had to buy the Special Editions to get them, but they are out there.

      I agree that it's frustrating to not have the exact versions we want, and the best material in the documentary nails Lucas on his anti-colorization stance. The difference, of course, is that the directors of the films who were colorized had no say in it and, like it or not, "Star Wars" is owned by Lucas and Fox, and he's the one making these awful choices.

      April 10, 2010 at 12:12AM EST
    • Default-avatar

      Jeff The DVD versions, AFAIK, are from the pan-and-scan laserdisc copy, are they not? I stick with my VHS and won't buy it because I expect they'll dig up the widescreen original to sell yet again someday. Though maybe George will have to pass on first before the corp does that.

      Yes, it's a company and they can do what they want, but people are free to complain about company's giving shoddy product as well as they are free to complain about AT&T.

      April 10, 2010 at 1:59AM EST
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew No, Jeff, the DVD versions of the original trilogy are not from a pan-and-scan laserdisc. If you pick up the special edition box set, there are letterboxed widescreen editions of "Star Wars," "Empire," and "Jedi," all in their original theatrical forms. They're just not anamorphic.

      April 10, 2010 at 2:16AM EST
  • Default-avatar

    Jonathan

    At this point, the ongoing hatedom has done far more harm to the lasting legacy of Star Wars than the mediocrity of the prequels ever could. I can't help but wonder about the current generation of young fans whose love of SW is defined by the current Clone Wars cartoon (and will thrive with the eventual live-action series in their teens/adult years) -- will they renew fandom with the sense of wonder and imagination that Star Wars is supposed to be about? Or will they end up forcibly assimilated into the Frankenstein monster of thoughtless hatred and invective that is the current state of SW internet fandom? (If you think I'm overreacting with the latter, then just take a look at all the classy comments from 30/40-something fans about how they'll control their children's exposure to SW so they only watch the OT... and threaten to punish them if they dare to watch -- and perhaps actually enjoy -- the PT.)

    Drew is completely right to write this article. And anyone who attacks him for writing this article is doing nothing but driving his point home just a tad further. How could anyone call him a "crybaby" simply for expressing his sincere and well-articulated resentment of a fandom culture that is hardly ever sincere or articulate anymore?

    I truly hope more people like you speak up; those whom this scam of a documentary claims to reach out to, but are in fact sick and tired of all this self-entitled garbage.

    April 10, 2010 at 12:00AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jelperman I don't think these Mark David Chapman-type "fans" are hurting Star Wars' reputation, but they are making Star Wars fans look even more pathetic than hardcore Trekkies.

      April 12, 2010 at 4:03AM EST
  • Boba_fett_talkback_profile

    MetalMonkey250

    My first experience with Star Wars was my dad taking me to go see The Phantom Menace on opening day. I sat in that theater at the age of seven and was completely blown away. I cringed at the death of Qui-Gon Jin, was on the edge of my seat as the Jedi evaded giant deep sea creatures on Naboo, and smiled between closed fingers as Darth Maul was expertly cut down at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi. That weekend I forced my parents to take me to the video store to rent the original trilogy and fell in love even more. The prequel trilogy may not be so great to those who grew up with the original, but be damn sure that those of us who grew up on the prequels will defend them with as much vigor as those saying otherwise. The prequel trilogy did for me what the original trilogy did for kids of the late 70s and early 80s. They brought to a world far far away and I've never left. i don't think of Star Qars as having two parts. To me its one big story and its a damn good one.

    April 10, 2010 at 12:18AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew I rest my case.

      "Star Wars" belongs to more than just those of us who saw the OT in theaters upon initial release, and that's all there is to it.

      Like what you like. Love what you love. Tune the rest out, and get happy.

      April 10, 2010 at 12:34AM EST
    • I showed my now former step-son the prequels first because I wanted to see how he felt about them. Similarly, he loved them culminating to the moment at the end of Episode III as we were sitting in the theater and the credits are rolling and I look over at him and he is crying because for him Anakin was the hero and the character he identified with the most. I showed him the original trilogy the next day, all in one go and he loved those just as much but Anakin's redemption in Jedi seemed to resonate with him that much more. The prequels have problems, sure, but taken all together they do something really cool and I wish I had been able to experience it all that way.

      I think at the end of the day the prequels weren't really made for the adult uber-fan but rather for kids, just like the originals. My dad took me to see all of the original trilogy in the theater and while he likes them, he and I do not share the same deep and abiding love for them. While he can enjoy them, they weren't really made for him just like the prequels weren't really made for me.

      April 10, 2010 at 6:54AM EST
  • Nlf2_talkback_profile

    Vern

    Yeah, I don't get it either. Half of these guys don't even like the Return of the Jedi one, so they like 2 out of a 6 movie series and still won't shut up about it. I mean all those Firefly people make me uncomfortable but at least they dedicate their lives to something they love, instead of all this negativity. If you don't like the prequels or the third one then it's been THIRTY GOD DAMN YEARS since you liked a Star Wars movie. Most guys will stop complaining about their ex-wives about twenty years sooner than you'll stop with this shit.

    I do have to say in defense of the guy's videos, they're a very cleverly put together concept. I couldn't watch the whole thing because of the topic but I give him credit for the character he plays and everything. But of course nobody talks about that, they just act like he uncovered Watergate because he found out that his friends who have seen Star Wars 500 times remember its characters better than the ones in the prequel they saw once ten years ago and hated.

    April 10, 2010 at 1:08AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew Any chance I can ever lure you onto my podcast, Vern?

      April 10, 2010 at 1:31AM EST
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    jcdenton

    McWeeny is missing the entire point about Redlettermedia's analysis of the Star Wars prequels. The prequel trilogy undermines the themes and narrative logic of the original trilogy. Redlettermedia (Plinkett) demonstrates what went wrong with the prequel stories and why people turned against George Lucas. I expect more from McWeeny who's made a career writing online reviews about films to respect someone else's opinion about this subject. Plinkett's review points out the flaws in the story that any beginning screenwriter teacher would fail you over. Lack of motivation, coincidence, forced conflict, and lack of a character arc are just some of the many problems pointed out and explained in detail. Plinkett repeatedly talks about the brilliant aspects of the original trilogy and his style is entertaining, thoughtful and focused. And McWeeny, you whine about his "whining?" You're so sick and tired of whining that you whine for a good 9 paragraphs? Come on, you're a hypocrite. Maybe you should lay off the topic of Star Wars because you seemingly can't handle someone's shrewd and skewed look at the prequels. Don't worry, no one will bring up the prequels to you anymore, lets all leave McWeeny alone because he's tired and wants to go to bed.

    April 10, 2010 at 1:40AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew You call it "shrewd." That's fine. I've watched both of his reviews in full now, and I think a lot of his complaints boil down to "it's not what I wanted." I don't agree with his point-by-point breakdowns, and I don't think he makes a particularly astute overall analysis. There are ABSOLUTELY many things wrong with the prequels, and all of those problems had been written about way before Plinkett showed up. He added 100% NOTHING to the conversation. He just collected other people's ideas into one long rant, and then beat the horse way past the point of dead.

      April 10, 2010 at 2:14AM EST
    • 000_vulcan_smiley_alternate_talkback_profile

      Trekscribbler I gotta side with Drew over Plinkett's deconstruction of ATTACK OF THE CLONES. In some cases, Plinkett blames the film for "telling us, not showing us," and then he later blasts the film for "showing us, not telling us." While I think he was very spot on with most of his gripes in his fascinating deconstruction of THE PHANTOM MENACE, his AOTC screech seems much more like "I wanna just harp on the prequels some more." Very little of substance was brought up with some significant exceptions toward the end (when Plinkett skewers Lucas for mis-casting or entirely mis-using the legendary Samuel Jackson).

      Look, I can understand the prequels not being everyone's cup of tea. But those of us who were around when the original trilogy came out ... we scoured what little magazine interviews that came out at that time. I can specifically recall Lucas talking about three trilogies (I know he's recanted those statements and/or said his remarks were taken out of context), but I also recall Lucas saying that, in order to tell the story that he had always wanted to tell, he HAD to start with the original trilogy because Vader's backstory involved a lot of political scheming that just wouldn't win over audiences or endear them to the universe he wanted to create. So while you can bitch that "there just was no direction," I can say that it almost seemed like Lucas was admitted to as much 30-plus years ago it would be a problem. Sure, some of the weaknesses could've been addressed by fewer yes-men on the payroll, but it is what it is.

      April 10, 2010 at 2:51AM EST
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      Matt Drew's just jealous that some other internet nerd came along and became famous for amateur film criticism (albeit in a way that is a thousand times more entertaining than anything Drew himself has ever mustered)

      April 10, 2010 at 3:43AM EST
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew Tell you what, Matt... when Plinkett's got twelve years worth of reviews on thousands of films in different genres and styles on file, call me and let me know how he's doing. Until then, I'm pretty sure I'm not jealous of anything he's doing.

      It's perfectly possible to dislike something without being jealous of it. Maybe not in your world, but certainly in mine.

      April 10, 2010 at 4:56AM EST
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    washington

    Drew, would you still rate any of the prequels above Episode 6? :)

    April 10, 2010 at 2:00AM EST Reply to Comment
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    evilkeen

    I absolutely agree Drew about the self-entitlement of Star Wars fandom and how absolutely uninteresting this movie appears to be.

    I think the reason I do appreciate RedLetterMedia's two Star Wars reviews (although the latter is weaker than the former) is that the author has come out and said he isn't actually a fan of Star Wars...not even the original trilogy so much. I just don't read any whining or entitlement on his part. Other than commenting on its general illogic and base physical humour aspects to Jar Jar, the Plinkett character has bigger fish to fry...which is good because Jar Jar has been a boring whipping boy for fandom all these years.

    I think Star Wars is extremely fertile creative ground...and in a way the Prequels are moreso in that they're fascinating to reverse engineer, to pick apart and see where things went wrong in making a compelling story. Sometimes failure teaches us more than success can. I think it's an interesting exercise to reshape or tweak the prequel stories to make them emotionally engaging, successful narratives and I do so without any malice towards George Lucas--he certainly never beat me over the head and stole the ticket money out of my pocket for any of these three movies.

    April 10, 2010 at 2:12AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew Personally, I think it was a mistake to make prequels at all. I think the biggest, most basic error in the approach was to go back and fill in backstory that didn't need to be filled in. He could easily have picked a time and a story that had nothing to do with the Skywalkers, and I think it would have worked out much better for everyone.

      April 10, 2010 at 2:18AM EST
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      evilkeen Precisely,

      I think you said an example best : We (fans) *think* we really want to see the Future Wars [in the Terminator series] but we're actually acting contrary to our best interests.

      April 10, 2010 at 3:21AM EST
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    TallBoy66

    well said, the people losing their minds over how awesome the 90 minute ATOC review is on AICN are dressing up what is, at it's core, a pretty lame and redundant and worn-out premise: some fanboy bitching.

    You can try to spin it any way possible, "Oh, look, it's pointing out the CORE STORY PROBLEMS! Mmmm, yesssss..." but it comes down to fanboy whining and it's so overplayed and overdone that it becomes completely as much fun in engaging in discourse as banging your head against a wall.

    Hey, A.O. Scott, Todd McCarthy both say that the two best Star Wars movies are Empire Strikes Back and then Revenge of the Sith. I like and agree with that statement: they're the darkest films of the series but they have the most emotional punch.

    And I do remember a post way-back-when with "Moriarty" posting on an AICN talkback that he'd show his kid - I think in the post celebrating his birth - the movies episodes 4-5, 1-3, 6, and I do dig that he's sticking to his original idea. Also it doesn't spoil the "I am your father" twist (assuming the kid doesn't put together that the Luke Skywalker is Anakin Skywalker's kid just from osmosis.) Also, considering how much Palpatine pops up in the prequels, and he is the main bad guy in Return of the Jedi, it would make the final confrontation and pay off better.

    I think that's what is the best thing about the prequels - the payoff effect that it has in the throne room in ROTJ. I never quite got or understood why or how Vader would suddenly change his mind. Now I do. And, in the end, the prequels are just that - prequels that set up the final movie. And that's how it makes the series stronger as a whole.

    April 10, 2010 at 2:21AM EST Reply to Comment
    • Uglyhomer_talkback_profile

      TallBoy66 Erm, I meant Drew's kid doesn't pick up that Luke Skywalker is Darth Vader's kid through osmosis. I think the last name thing will tip him off, but not KNOWING that Vader is Anakin Skywalker is key.

      April 10, 2010 at 2:29AM EST
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    sam

    Victim culture? How about the victim culture of nerds like the guy who wrote this article who can't stand the fact that the new Star Wars films were not as well received as the originals. Sorry man, Jar Jar Binks isn't for everyone. Grow up and get a life.

    April 10, 2010 at 3:06AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jelperman Actually, the prequels did better with critics than the originals did when they were first released.

      April 12, 2010 at 3:58AM EST
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    Anon

    Cough

    "I am sorry that I ever spend the time and energy I did on STAR WARS, Mr. Lucas. I am sorry that I poured my money and, before that, my parents’ money into your pockets. I’m sorry that after decades of being a fan, even when there was no new STAR WARS to satisfy that craving, I somehow made your life so unbearable simply by sharing my enthusiasm for that world with our readership.

    You win. I’m done. From now on, my opinion about STAR WARS is for me and for my immediate friends, and that’s that. Your embargo has opened my eyes, and I wish you nothing but peace now that the threat of me saying something as controversial as “His cartoon movie’s kind of fun” has been erased. The internet is safe now. STAR WARS is safe now. Congratulations."

    Cough

    April 10, 2010 at 3:42AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew Am I reviewing new "Star Wars" product?

      Nope.

      Am I reviewing a documentary from a film festival about the culture around him?

      Yep.

      Cough right back at you.

      April 10, 2010 at 4:50AM EST
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    Max

    Yay! Another article bitching about people bitching. Is there really anymore worthless argument to be made on a subject? People don't like the prequels, so fucking what? Just accept it and move on with your life, Drew. It ain't gonna change, ever.

    April 10, 2010 at 4:06AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew Max...

      I reviewed a documentary that I saw at a film festival. That was the subject of the documentary.

      I didn't just randomly decide to write the article for no good reason.

      Follow?

      April 10, 2010 at 4:54AM EST
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    James

    I hear you about the potential for over-reaction to the quality of the prequel trilogy, as well as the problem of people jumping on to the "it's trendy to hate Star Wars" bandwagon. But at the end of the day, Mr Plinkett et al have the right to comment publicly on this matter because money was spent going to see these films and we live in a society that affords us the freedom to make criticisms if we choose. They also make valid points! Whether you like the prequel trilogy or not, anyone who knows anything about screenwriting or film-making in general cannot deny the logic of Mr Plinkett's arguments. His arguments make infinitely more sense than the stories of Episodes 1-3.

    April 10, 2010 at 4:31AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew I'm wondering where I tried to deny Plinkett his right to say anything in any forum... because I'm pretty sure I didn't.

      On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy to "deny the logic" of many of Plinkett's complaints. Yes, he's put together a catalogue of many things that many other people said before him. And just as well or better, since they didn't rely on a fake nerd voice and bizarre transgressions about brutalizing women in a basement to do it. But he's also contradicted himself repeatedly in his reviews and laid out some arguments that just plain don't work.

      But glad you enjoyed his stuff. Sorry the stories of some children's fantasy films were too tough for you to parse.

      April 10, 2010 at 4:53AM EST
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    dorkenheimer

    Wow, Drew. Miss the point much? The Plinkett videos satirize the overreaction to the movies while at the same time criticizing the movies themselves. THAT is the new thing they've brought to the table. The Plinkett videos provided the entertainment I should have gotten while sitting through those stupid ham-handed fanfic-quality prequel movies. It's like finally getting to hear the punchline of the joke that George Lucas played on all of us. Thank you, Redlettermedia, for redeeming the time I spent in the theater!

    April 10, 2010 at 5:08AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew I get it.

      I just don't think it's funny. Especially at ninety-plus minutes per review.

      April 10, 2010 at 5:14AM EST
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      Talcy Dorkenhiemer, the thing is, these videos play directly to the very people they are supposed, in your opinion, to be satirising. They have become a part of the problem Drew is on about, IMO. The guy making them needs to realise this, if that's truly part of his point.

      April 10, 2010 at 6:21AM EST
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      dorkenheimer You don't think the Plinkett videos are funny. That's fine. But there's a difference between that and typing in all caps that they bring absolutely nothing original to the table. That's just being willfully dunderheaded. There's reason why the Plinkett videos struck a chord with so many people: he framed those ideas and observations in a very original and, to some of us, entertaining way.

      Not every expression of dissatisfaction with the prequels is contributing to the disintegration of fandom and the downfall of society. Some of us are able to make the distinction between pointless fanboy whingeing and making the best of a bad situation. The latter is what the Plinkett videos represent to us: someone finally squeezing something enjoyable out of those lifeless and unfun movies. If you are unable to make such distinctions, perhaps you should do as you promised and refrain from making public comments related to Star Wars. Just a suggestion.

      April 10, 2010 at 7:02PM EST
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    Russ

    My only real problem with Lucas (and sometimes I do wonder if he went up the river Kurtz style) is that you can't make the Raymond Chandler argument with him. When a critic asked Chandler how he felt about what Hollywood had done to his books, Chandler pointed to the shelf and said, there they are. And that's how our childhood memories are. So prequels whatever. I just wish Lucas had given us the original releases intact for home viewing along with the new versions no one really wants. Side note: Id like the same for THX 1138. Instead, he keeps doling out various versions. But never quite the ones we want. The prequels have their problems. But I do enjoy certain scenes and moments which do very much feel part of the fabric of the Star Wars universe. I also agree Star Wars continues to be a vital part of pop culture. But I do have to say the one unforgivable crime is The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. That really did have zero redeeming value. I hold all parties responsible. No essay on that will EVER change my mind.

    April 10, 2010 at 5:18AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew The originals are on DVD. I'm not sure how the idea has taken hold that they're not. They were offered as "special features" with the Special Edition release. They're not anamorphic, but they are the full widescreen original 1977, 1980, and 1983 films.

      April 10, 2010 at 5:34AM EST
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      JoeK The "the originals are not available" argument is so specious for anyone over a certain age. I have a hard time thinking of any film(s) that had more packaged releases on home video than the pre-Special Edition Star Wars trilogy. I think I personally have 4 different VHS editions and 2 separate laserdisc releases, including one that involved pretty painstaking restoration and matte correction work. I honestly believe that more than 50% of people that would see the un-specialed originals would wince at some of the effects work, having no direct experience with it.

      And yeah Drew pointed out that the DVD releases covered it anyway.

      April 10, 2010 at 10:16AM EST
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    girifutai

    Drew, my question to you is this: What about the legitimate gripes that people have against Lucas? Although this particular documentary doesn't address it, the fact remains that Lucas is a shameless hack and a thief. Doubt me? Look up the original 1975 script for Star Wars, a cursory browse of google will suffice. This is back when it was "Legends of the Starkiller", pre Luke Skywalker, and followed Han Solo and Deke Starkiller. After looking at that, take a look at the masterpiece that is Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress". Notice similarities? You should, because it's a veritable cut and paste.

    Star Wars is a stolen idea from one of the greatest directors ever to grace us with his brilliance, and only after years of goading him into admitting it did Mr. Lucas claim that Star Wars was "loosely inspired" by Kurosawa's work. He's a hack and he knows it, just people are too busy ballhugging him to call him out on it.

    April 10, 2010 at 5:51AM EST Reply to Comment
    • All_purpose_icon_talkback_profile

      drew My first son's name is "Toshiro Lucas," so I'll let you sort out my feelings about "Star Wars" and Kurosawa for yourself.

      April 10, 2010 at 5:58AM EST
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      Jelperman Are you trying to be funny or are you really that stupid? So Lucas swiped the idea of telling the story from the point of view of the lowliest characters. Kurosawa's movies are mostly re-hashings of other movies, as well as Shakespeare and novelists like Hammett.

      Star Wars owes a lot more to John Ford's The Searchers, which is interesting, given that Kurosawa himself swiped much of his technique from Ford.

      April 10, 2010 at 9:44PM EST
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      Jelperman

      George Lucas is the greatest filmmaker of all time. Just look at how many people bitch and whine about his movies, yet they still pay to watch.

      April 10, 2010 at 9:47PM EST
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    Talcy

    THANK YOU! Finally, someone puts it into clear perspective. I had a friend who even refused to listen to my opinion on ANY movies because I refused to say I hated TPM. People need to grow up and move on. Their decade of whining says more about them than they realise. Again, Drew, thank you.

    April 10, 2010 at 6:18AM EST Reply to Comment


  • THANK YOU!
    I am so tired of this entire "George Lucas destroyed my childhood" bullshit that people keep repeating. What, he travelled back in time and abused you? Or did he maybe just continue doing his work as a filmmaker and happened to make something you didn't like?

    April 10, 2010 at 6:39AM EST Reply to Comment
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      Jelperman Face it, getting their childhoods "raped" by Lucas is as close as most of these pathetic loser will ever come to getting laid. They should be thankful.

      April 10, 2010 at 9:39PM EST
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    JH Brennick

    And you could have just forgotten this movie instead of writing a review bitching about it for all to see. Ah, but you're a critic? You have to write a review? No. You're an internet guy. You wrote it cause you wanted to bitch about it and people write/make movies about Lucas raping their childhoods cause they want to bitch about the PT. So shut up.

    April 10, 2010 at 8:20AM EST Reply to Comment
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