Director of 'Chronicle' reported to be in negotiations to make 'Venom' movie
Without Spider-Man, why make a Venom film at all?
Venom, as originally drawn by Todd McFarlane, is one of the most visually recognizable Marvel villains, which may be why Sony still insists they're making a standalone film for him.
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I have never understood this idea.
New Line was the first studio to option the rights to "Venom," and it's always confused me deeply to imagine a film in which you only have the Venom character without Spider-Man. Sony had to eventually buy the rights to the character so they could incorporate him into their "Spider-Man" series, and I would argue that their intense desire to force the fan-favorite character into the third film despite Sam Raimi's misgivings is one of the reasons that film does not work.
Raimi had no real desire to do anything with Venom, and I understand why. Venom is the sort of character that serves as a dividing line for comic book fans. I find that it's basically all about how old you were when they started publishing Venom stories. I was getting out of comic collecting right around the time the age of Todd McFarlane began, and I didn't really care for where the comic industry was heading at that time. I don't feel superior to fans who grew up with Venom as a cornerstone of what they loved about Spider-Man, though. I just don't agree with them.
But even as a non-fan, I recognize that Venom has to have Spider-Man to make sense. He is, after all, quite literally made of the same stuff as Spider-Man, part of him, and casting him in a movie by himself is like making a movie just called "The Joker."
Wait… that might be awesome. Forget that comparison.
Josh Trank made an impressive debut with "Chronicle," so it doesn't surprise me that he's on a lot of wish lists suddenly. It saddens me a bit that right away, Hollywood's working to put him in that "comic book movie" box, though. I think the reason "Chronicle" was good wasn't because Trank is clever about how he shoots effects, although he is. It was good because there was something authentically felt about the teenage characters, something real in their behavior, and because he and Max Landis seemed to genuinely care about the young characters they created. I hope that if Trank does make this film, he makes it because it's something he's passionate about, and not just because they offer him the right deal. He's got real potential as a director, and honestly, "Venom" sounds like it would be very similar to "Chronicle," a look at a character twisted by power and hard to stop. I'd like to see him expand his range, not get boxed in with his second film.
Right now, this all sounds like a development deal in search of a greenlight, so it's still early. But I think even attaching his name to the project speaks volumes about the way Hollywood swallows and digests new talent.
My real question now is will this somehow be tied to "The Amazing Spider-Man" and its new continuity, or will it be something unrelated? Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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March 7, 2012 at 1:03AM EST Reply to CommentIt could be good if they incorporate Carnage because Venom took on a more vigilante hero role but the plot development would have to be extremely accelerated and again, you would need to involve spidey. Mixed feelings but certain I am getting tired of the studios and their lack of creativity. Is the game to see how many different ways you can reboot and spinoff a franchise in as short a time as possible? Geesh!
Dudeman
March 7, 2012 at 2:30AM EST Reply to CommentVenom had his own comic series for awhile, as by then the character had evolved from simply being a Spider-Man enemy to being more of a vigilante or anti-hero. Even as a villain, Venom wasn't really an opportunistic criminal so much as a bitter man drunk with power who eventually turned to cleaning up the streets in his own violent way. Honestly, framed in his own movie, I'd expect he'd be a lot more like the Punisher than like The Joker, as was the comparison.
That being said, part of the reason for his popularity (and his divisiveness) is that he sort of represents a turning point where Spider-Man (and comic books in general) started to get darker and more violent. It's clear from the Raimi movies that he grew up with the lighter, more bubblegum style comics that were written for an audience not expected to be much older than early adolescent. Venom was a character for adult readers, and his popularity has, in my opinion, contributed to the growth of the medium.
Jeff Mc2000 I don't think you'll find too many readers who were adults when Venom first appeared in the comics that think he's a particularly interesting character. He seems to be one that appeals to younger kids more. Maybe the visual or the brain eating or something.
March 8, 2012 at 1:07AM ESTChris
March 7, 2012 at 9:25AM EST Reply to CommentWell, Venom has had his own comic for years (on and off), so I would say that it's possible to get at least a little mileage out of the character. It's basically like doing the symbiote story arc of Spider-Man without Spider-Man (which even most purist comic book fans can probably agree was a good run). It doesn't seem like that crazy an idea to me, honestly, although I do think that the most interesting aspect of Venom is his relationship to Spider-Man, which would obviously have to go out the window in a movie like this.
Dave I
March 7, 2012 at 11:12AM EST Reply to Comment"I would argue that their intense desire to force the fan-favorite character into the third film despite Sam Raimi's misgivings is one of the reasons that film does not work."
I agree in part. I also think Raimi either did not know how to use Venom or simply was so apathetic toward the character that his distain negatively effected the character's portrayal. In that instance, he should have declined to write Venom into the movie or gracefully stepped down. He sure did not do the character justice.
Regarding Venom by himself? It depends. I think if anything they need to develop him more. The comparison by DUDEMAN of Venom to Punisher is kind of apt. They are both somewhat of anti-heroes. I believe Punisher was somewhat of a hero out of the gate since his motivations were revenge and punishing people who did bad things. You could even sort of make a Hulk analogy out of him. With Venom, he grew into a warped version of a hero over time.
If I had to put my thoughts on it, I would say I have two issues with the movie that I would like them to address.
1) Character Development: This is a problem since they decided to start the Spider-Man series over. A move I hate by the way. Venom either needs to exist as a bit of the opposite side of the coin from Spider-Man, or they can make him exist apart from Spider-Man. The first way requires them to either tie it to the new series, ignore the "reboot", or have his origin apart from Spidey. If they are not including him in the Spider-Man series, I'm not sure how it works, and rehashing his origin is kind of tedious since they JUST did that. The second way, where some guy becomes Venom (sort of what they did with the non-Batman-based Catwoman, I guess, I never saw it) and not in the Spider-Man "universe" is kind of pointless. It's not really Venom, and making him into a sympathetic vigilante anti-hero ignores what makes the character and his arc work in the first place. Regardless, they need to develop who he is and get a solid feel of that first. He was pigeon-holed into the last movie which (along with Raimi's disdain for the character) made him suck and kept the admittedly pretty good Sandman story from achieving its potential.
2) Character Arc: Kind of related, but let the character grow first. Venom as an anti-hero, where I'd guess they're going with this, or even just as a basis for a movie, only works if you let him go through stuff that makes him interesting enough to be a standalone antagonist. I do not think the Venom comics were all that popular, however I can see them working after the character has undergone growth and fans have a reason to care. At first, he is just a Spider-Man villain. He has to earn the role of the antagonist a/o "hero." It is part of his DNA that he started out a genuine villain out to destroy Peter Parker.
Sorry, Raimi failed in making him anything more than a paper-thin character. There is nothing obvious warranting him as a character with his own movie away from Spider-Man. Do I think it COULD work? It could be like Chronicle, however I'm not sure that is the best for the character in a vacuum from Spider-Man right off the bat, and I think it is probably a poor move by the director since I'd like to see him spread his wings. I guess we'll see.
-Cheers
Dave I
March 7, 2012 at 11:32AM EST Reply to Comment"Raimi had no real desire to do anything with Venom, and I understand why. Venom is the sort of character that serves as a dividing line for comic book fans. [snip] I don't feel superior to fans who grew up with Venom as a cornerstone of what they loved about Spider-Man, though. I just don't agree with them."
I do not get that. If you don't like where certain writers took the character or how they portrayed him, I can see that. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with the character. He has every bit as much potential as a guy in a rhino costume or a guy with robot arms or a green man-in-suit with Halloween-themed bombs and a jet-powered flying skateboard. Or even a character known for a white face, goofy smile, and murderous gag weapons like acid flowers who chases a man in a bat costume. Look what Alan Moore and Heath Ledger were respectably able to do with that one.
Venom as a character is fine. In fact, even if you hate what MacFarlane did with him, he is overwhelmingly full of potential. There is a character who is struggling and has a beef with Parker yet kind of inadvertently gets screwed over by Spider-Man. He grows as a person, struggles with Venom in kind of a Jekyll & Hyde or Hulk sort conflict, tries to make amends as a hero, and lets you play with the dark side of power and the consequences of Spider-Man's decisions.
If you do not like him, fine. However, the character sketch seems fine to me. I think it is a poor idea to ignore the character build-up that happened with Spider-Man as a catalyst, yet I hate how it turns into traditionalists hating him out of hand or the portrayal of people who like the character of Venom as young whippersnappers. Most comic characters (villains especially) are hokey if taken at face value, however if done right I think they all have great potential. The implication you have to be a fan of one or the other always annoys me.
-Cheers
potty break
March 7, 2012 at 11:46AM EST Reply to CommentYeah, what's next? A movie based on "Catwoman"?
Mike
March 7, 2012 at 1:43PM EST Reply to CommentI am excited about a Venom movie. He was not done justice in Spider-Man 3 (and should probably indeed have been left out of it altogether), but he was a great, interesting character in the comic books.
I too think the Punisher comparison is a good one. Spidey and Punisher had a similar relationship in the comics - on the same side, but with great disagreements over the means they used to fight the "real" bad guys.
A Venom movie done right could be pretty awesome. It could easily be a terrible POS like "Spawn" and "Ghost Rider" though...
shawn_michael_hoelscher
March 8, 2012 at 5:48PM EST Reply to CommentI agree that Venom without Spidey would interesting...interestingly weird.