Oscar Talk: Ep. 74 -- LAFCA, SAG, Globes, 'Dragon Tattoo,' 'Extremely Loud' and more
Also: 'Bridesmaids' staying power and surprises so far
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Welcome to Oscar Talk.
In case you're new to the site and/or the podcast, Oscar Talk is a weekly kudocast, your one-stop awards chat shop between yours truly and Anne Thompson of Thompson on Hollywood. The podcast is weekly, every Friday throughout the season, charting the ups and downs of contenders along the way. Plenty of things change en route to Oscar's stage and we're here to address it all as it unfolds.
After a break from our regularly scheduled programming last week for some top 10 shenanigans, it's back to business today. And there is PLENTY to talk about, with a wave of critics and precursor award announcements having sped through this week. Let's see what's on the docket today...
The Los Angeles Film Critics Association crowned "The Descendants" Best Picture of the year last weekend, so we discuss that and their other winners.
The Screen Actors Guild and the Hollywood Foreign Press Association also declared nominees this week, which offered some dovetailing but mostly different takes on the race. We discuss.
With the embargo lifted on "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo," we finally talk about the film. Anne is more forgiving than I am.
The embargo for "Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close" is - kind of? - lifted, so we touch on that one, as well.
Finally, reader questions. We answer queries regarding "Bridesmaids"'s place in the season, surprises so far and what this year means for late-breaking films.
Have a listen to the new podcast below with Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross and Karen O leading the way. If the file cuts off for you at any time, try the back-up download link at the bottom of this post. And as always, remember to subscribe to Oscar Talk via iTunes here.
"Immigrant Song" courtesy of Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross, Karen O and The Null Corporation.
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2012-2013 OSCAR PREDICTIONS
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Actor
Best Actress
Best Supporting Actor
Best Supporting Actress
Best Adapted Screenplay
Best Original Screenplay
Best Cinematography
Best Costume Design
Best Film Editing
Best Makeup And Hairstyling
Best Original Score
Best Original Song
Best Production Design
Best Sound Editing
Best Sound Mixing
Best Visual Effects
Best Animated Feature Film
Best Documentary Feature
Best Foreign Language Film
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Login or create a HitFix account Login SignupJeffrey
December 16, 2011 at 1:19PM EST Reply to CommentI agree that you shouldn't have to read the source material to appreciate the film, in regard to the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, but I agree with Anne that I'm psyched to see what they can do with the second book. I almost wish they skipped the first novel entirely.
Kristopher Tapley Maybe they should have.
December 16, 2011 at 1:29PM ESTJJ1 Because I am not a huge reader, I completely stand by the "you shouldn't have to read the source material to appreciate the film" line of thinking. 2 different mediums.
December 16, 2011 at 2:02PM ESTDylanS as someone who's read the books, I totally agree that the film should have to stand alone and work for people who didn't read it.
December 16, 2011 at 3:06PM ESTAndrej That's something I also apply to films, too - sequels are great when they prove to be good on their own without completely relying on scenes and stories from a different film. The Dark Knight, Terminator 2, the Toy Story series, all of them awesome, perfectly watchable separatedly.
December 16, 2011 at 3:09PM ESTEvan As someone who's seen the new Fincher movie but has not read the books, I completely disagree with Anne's statement that you need to have read the books to appreciate the character of Lisbeth.
December 16, 2011 at 6:07PM ESTI also disagree with Kris's statement that Lisbeth comes across as a stock character. She's no more stock than "The Driver" in Drive (he's a soft-hearted bada$$ who wants out of the game-- how many times have we seen that? And yet Kris still liked that movie). I saw a lot more emotions hiding under Lisbeth's exterior than Kris did, apparently.
The ordeal Kris alludes to the movie "putting her through" is crucial in proving why she wants to take on this case (and future cases in the series, I'm told). It's an inherently feminist tale so those scenes are exceedingly relevant.
And a final word- if Stieg Larsson is better at the characters than as a stylist, then pairing with Fincher was perfect because the movie was beautifully stylized. That flaw in Larsson's writing is certainly covered up well.
Kristopher Tapley No, no, I'm perfectly aware of the nuance to Mara's performance. There's a reason I've singled her out since seeing it. But superficially, I see her as a stock character. Much like Driver, indeed, you're right. But one film is exciting, creative and controlled filmmaking. The other is loose and bored with itself.
December 16, 2011 at 8:45PM ESTOn that, I can't really understand considering Tattoo "stylized." There is some sharp editing (as when introducing Salander), but it reads like something merely called upon to give SOME kind of life the material rather than exemplary filmmaking, IMO.
The "ordeal" you mention is laughably over the top and needlessly sinister. That's why it bugs me. I have no problem with getting the character to the necessary head space, but the story gets her there in an arbitrarily oppressive way. This, of course, would be fine if the moment Salander lets her guard down enough to get close with Blomkvist was handled with any thought beyond "let's maker her the aggressor," but, alas, it's not.
Kaylie Stock character? I don't remember the last time I saw a badass, intelligent, gothic, bisexual female hacker/researcher with asperger's syndrome and a history of severe abuse in the movies. That's one of the reasons women love these books. We NEVER get to see characters like this.
December 16, 2011 at 11:35PM ESTAnd with regard to the "ordeal" mentioned above, yes, I agree that it is sinister, but it's not something they just do to her to get her into a headspace. The whole theme of the book is that sexual violence towards women is a huge problem in Sweden. Larsson wrote this book because he witnessed the gang rape of a young woman named Lisbeth when he was younger, and he didn't do anything about it, and the guilt ate away at him the rest of his life. The book is divided into several "parts," and each part comes with a statistic about violence towards women in Sweden-- 18% of the women in Sweden have at one time been threatened by a man. 46% of the women in Sweden have been subjected to violence by a man. 13% of the women in Sweden have been subjected to aggravated sexual assault outside of a sexual relationship. 92% of the women in Sweden who have been subjected to sexual assault have not reported the most recent violent incident to the police.
He makes it very clear how prevalent these incidents are, and that they are a serious problem.
I disagree with the commenter above that the "ordeal" that happens to her is to get her into a certain headspace. She has her past history (revealed in later books) to drive her to help Blomkvist. What happens to her happens because 1) sexual assault happens sometimes, especially in "abuse of power" situations. It's not unrealistic (although again i agree that it was taken to a sinister degree) 2) Larsson wanted Lisbeth to fight back. To not take it. To refuse to be the victim. To come out on top. To take all of the horrible things that have happened to her and use them to make sure horrible things don't happen to others.
I have no idea whether Fincher managed to covey this tone in the movie or not, as I'm stuck in middle of nowhere, Ohio. But if he didn't manage to convey this tone, and he just went through the motions of the murder story, then I don't think the movie can be called a faithful adaptation. And I think he missed the point.
Kristopher Tapley "The whole theme of the book is that sexual violence towards women is a huge problem in Sweden."
December 17, 2011 at 4:33AM ESTThis does not translate in the film. Again, I haven't read the book so I'm not responding to that, I'm responding to the text of the movie. I appreciate why Larsson wrote the book and perhaps I'd respond to it more, I don't know. (I still maintain the actual narrative itself is wafer thin.)
Evan Kris, I wasn't talking about nuance in Mara's performance. I was talking about plot points that hint to underlying motivations.
December 17, 2011 at 12:30PM ESTKristopher Tapley Oh, well any nuance along that level is undone by the "ordeal," sorry to say.
December 17, 2011 at 7:50PM ESTthekingbulletin
December 16, 2011 at 1:50PM EST Reply to CommentPaquin better be your #2 lead actress of the year.
loyal_mehnert
December 16, 2011 at 2:15PM EST Reply to CommentThere's very little that can stop The Artist's momentum. I'm hoping War Horse does great box office, picks up DGA/PGA nods, and gets 10+ Oscar nominations so there's at least some suspense.
The biggest handicap for The Artist right now is that Hazanavicius' name is hard to pronounce. But then again, that didn't stop Weinstein from unleashing Benigni onto the world.
Guy Lodge Hazanavicius is pronounced exactly as it's spelt. Not so hard, just syllable-heavy.
December 17, 2011 at 7:39AM ESTAndrej I think Bérénice Bejo's name is harder to say. I've heard "Bernice Bello" and "Berenisse Beho". But seriously, is the name a handicap? Haing S. Ngor won perfectly fine.
December 17, 2011 at 8:30AM ESTDylanS I'm actually starting to think it's going to be Chastain.
December 17, 2011 at 9:03PM ESTJJ1
December 16, 2011 at 2:23PM EST Reply to CommentKris, Anne, do you think EL&IC can pull a PGA, DGA, handful of potent Oscar noms at this time of the race? Quality notwithstanding, what do you think it may manage?
Guy Lodge Anne said in the podcast that she thinks the film is "dead", so I think her answer to that question is clear enough.
December 17, 2011 at 7:40AM ESTWho me?
December 16, 2011 at 2:28PM EST Reply to CommentOnce again, Tapley comes off as a fool.
Kristopher Tapley Ooh! Do tell!
December 16, 2011 at 2:37PM ESTrustyreub Don't feed the trolls, Kris.
December 16, 2011 at 3:05PM ESTred_wine
December 16, 2011 at 2:36PM EST Reply to CommentRegarding, TGWTDT, the characters are STOCK - beneath the stylings, the characters are as STOCK as you can get. The book is trash, I would never recommend it to anyone without a shrug.
And I agree with Kris (I am talking about the book not movie) that it is absolutely misogynistic, its no better than Sucker Punch with its so called empowered heroines fighting in bikinis. Salander is a fantasy construct with no bearing on any kind of real issues.
I wanna see the movie just for the direction though, the story is nonsense I already know.
DylanS The misogynistic claims are a little ridiculous. You may think Larsson failed to make as interesting a female character as he intended, but he was by no means a misogynist. And the reason "Sucker Punch" was misogynist is because we were meant to oggle at the female characters, Salander isn't meant to be sexy, she's described as having a boyish figure.
December 16, 2011 at 3:13PM ESTKristopher Tapley I didn't read the book, I saw the film. And what I saw was the objectification of the character. She's naked on the poster, for cryin' out loud.
December 16, 2011 at 3:31PM ESTred_wine "She's naked on the poster, for cryin' out loud."
December 16, 2011 at 3:47PM ESTI want the so called feminist lobbyists to counter this.
DylanS Kris: Then how is it you admired Mara's performance (top ten female performances of the year, if I remember correctly), if you think the character is objectified to the point of misogyny. What is it you liked about the performance? given all of your issues with the character
December 16, 2011 at 5:50PM ESTEvan So to be feminist, the women have to be covered up? Isn't a major part of the feminist movement that women should be able to take control of their own sexuality under their own terms and appreciate themselves for who they are. It's pretty much what Lisbeth is about so I don't have a problem one bit with the poster.
December 16, 2011 at 6:16PM ESTKristopher Tapley Dylan: Mara provides depth. I don't fault her for the narrative failing her.
December 16, 2011 at 8:47PM ESTKristopher Tapley Evan: I find that incredibly facile and kind of what I'm getting at when I say "I weep." Surely there is more to a woman than her sexuality.
December 16, 2011 at 8:50PM ESTRashad You know Sucker Punch was making fun of its target audience (fanboys) by doing that
December 16, 2011 at 10:20PM ESTGuest
December 16, 2011 at 2:49PM EST Reply to CommentKris: Let's talk about Extremely Loud...
Anne: That's dead.
Ha! I was laughing so hard when she blurted that out.
Anita Same here! Great timing on Anne's part.
December 16, 2011 at 4:04PM ESTDylanS
December 16, 2011 at 3:14PM EST Reply to CommentNot a single mention of Gary Oldman's name. That was upsetting.
CSnow yeah..i know..felt the same here. so, what does that mean? his omissions from these awards were not a surprise???
December 16, 2011 at 10:08PM ESTDylanS I think it's become a custom to just sweep him under the rug and just say "oh, he's got another film coming up, we'll just nominate him for that, because of course he's going to give a good performance." And I'm sure once again, they'll fall in love with a Fassbender rising star type and shut Oldman out the same way they always do.
December 17, 2011 at 12:05AM ESTCSnow it certainly is very disheartening :(....
December 17, 2011 at 5:59PM ESTOrochim
December 16, 2011 at 3:17PM EST Reply to CommentKris, in the podcast were you saying that the crowd so loved the Thomas Horn's performance that there was loud approbation to his name appearing during the end credits? Or are you saying that this happened at the beginning of the film?
Kristopher Tapley End.
December 16, 2011 at 3:29PM ESTAndrej
December 16, 2011 at 3:23PM EST Reply to CommentI wouldn't dismiss Bridesmaids's shots at a screenplay nod so quickly. If in years past they could find a place for My Greek Fat Big Wedding, Borat and In The Loop, and most notably, Four Weddings and a Funeral, they're more than capable of nominating a popular comedy, and so far BM's doing leagues better than The Hangover ever did.
Likewise with Little Miss Sunshine and Juno, albeit they were nominated for BP.
Kristopher Tapley Let's be honest. Greek Wedding was a box office juggernaut. Borat was a phenom. In the Loop was a dialogue heavy, highly respected piece of writing. And Four Weddings was a Best Picture nominee.
December 16, 2011 at 3:30PM ESTI maintain that if The Hangover couldn't get a screenplay nod, Bridesmaids can't.
Andrej (I had forgotten 'Four Weddings' was a BP nominee, lol).
December 16, 2011 at 3:56PM ESTEven if The Hangover never got one of their dudes nominated for SAG or GG? Because once they started awarding McCarthy Bridesmaids's been nonstop.
Also, what about the PGAs? Since they started nominating 10 films They tend to have one or two movies more audience oriented compared to the Oscars. Throw in a likely nod for the WGAs and BM's record will be good enough to start showing up in other categories than supporting actress, which by the way, if it had to come between a McCarthy nod and a screenplay nod, the screenplay nod still seems more likely to happen.
JJ1 Yeah but, within this year, Bridesmaids was both a box office juggernaut and a phenom. I don't think a screenplay nom for it is a given. But I also would not be surprised to see it pop up.
December 16, 2011 at 11:54PM ESTPaul Outlaw
December 16, 2011 at 3:45PM EST Reply to CommentAnne is right about Thomas Horn. The kid gives a great performance, but he/the character is definitely "off-putting." At the SAG screening I attended last night, respectful applause, no standing ovation, no tumult.
And for what it's worth: Jeffrey Wright is best in show. The "chorus of Blacks" (when you see the movie, you'll know what I mean) are all great, for that matter.
Kristopher Tapley This is why I want to hear other reactions, because something smelled funny about the crowd I saw it with.
December 16, 2011 at 4:21PM ESTrosebite
December 16, 2011 at 5:18PM EST Reply to CommentTapley-seems to be like your disliking of the film came from the pitfalls of the actual novel, so much of the filmmaking?
Can i just say, having seen the film, Rooney Mara has given the most daring and wonderful performance of the year. If the Oscars fail to award her a nomination i will lose hope in them.
It was magic watching her, like witnessing the birth of a star...what a performance.
rosebite Thats in Regardes to "Tattoo" btw....it just seems to me like you hated the film due to story-issues, which really the film cant be blamed for.
December 16, 2011 at 5:21PM ESTTrex Here's my issue-- I couldn't decide whether it was Mara's jarring transformation or the actual performance that wowed me. I've heard the same reaction from a few other folks. I wonder if anyone here feels the same? It's such an introverted performance, it's hard to tell. I'm likely to agree with the former-- the transformation is what got me, the performance was good, but not revelatory.
December 16, 2011 at 6:37PM ESTrosebite it wasnt just the transformation, if she had acted badly you would have known regardless of her transformation...bad acting is bad acting.
December 16, 2011 at 7:51PM ESTThis was fantastic performance, this is one of the hardest roles for an actress to play, id say the toughest role in decades.....you have to be able to express so many emotions without actually emotioning in the normal way.
The final scene with Mara says it all, she had to convay maybe the most devastating human emotion with only a look...just one look, and she nailed it.
Her performance runs rings around any other actress this year, by a mile.
Kristopher Tapley I think Mara is embodying the character so no, I don't think it's the jarring transformation. It's a top-notch performance.
December 16, 2011 at 8:52PM ESTRichardA
December 16, 2011 at 5:25PM EST Reply to CommentThat *jinx* question was hilarious.
I cannot pretend not to know who or which site the question is talking about.
Handled nicely.
JJ1 Ha! yes
December 16, 2011 at 5:50PM ESTAden
December 16, 2011 at 6:32PM EST Reply to CommentYou guys glossed kind of glossed over this-- so is Charlize out? I can't imagine the actors not nominating her (beautiful, well liked, and an established talent) and the buzz is building for the film. No buzz for Albert Nobbs. Who will be able to carry their buzz all the way to mid-January?
Scott My opinion (which carries very little weight) is that Theron will probably get in, for the reasons you suggested coupled with Kris Tapley's late breaking buzz theory. I checked out some of the reviews for Albert Nobbs and they're pretty bad (someone called Glenn Close's portrayal of Nobbs as mentally handicapped wtf?!), so I don't know how the film and the actors will be able to sustain themselves for the long haul. Kris will probably give you a better answer, but that's my contribution :)
December 16, 2011 at 6:59PM ESTDylanS that was the same take I has Scott.
December 16, 2011 at 7:39PM ESTPenny
December 16, 2011 at 6:41PM EST Reply to CommentThe Golden Globes have only matched Oscar *Once* in Best Supporting Actress - and that was 1966. (1996/2001 had 6 noms, and McCarthy prob is #6) so it's highly unlikely Supporting Actress will be McTeer-Bejo-Chastain-Woodley-Spencer as everyone is predicting. Isn't it telling Shailene missed SAG? Maybe actors aren't impressed with her yet, like Mila Kunis last year? Mulligan is at #7(but the Academy won't take to Shame, and if they do it will be for Fassbender only I take) and I don't think Redgrave will happen (and I know you didn't care much for the movie/performance Kris, so others will probably follow suit, So I think Melissa will make it in #5. Actors (especially Comedic actors in the Academy) will vote for her now that her buzz is heating up and she is viewed as a viable contender. Plus with all the love 'Bridesmaids' is getting everywhere, at the Oscar's she's it's best bet at a nom for it to be recognized.
Guy Lodge SAG nominated Mila Kunis, actually.
December 17, 2011 at 7:46AM ESTloyal_mehnert
December 16, 2011 at 6:58PM EST Reply to CommentThe multiple Oscar blogger wars are actually more interesting than the Oscar race this year. There's nothing quite like high school antics by the 40 and 50 year old set.
Kristopher Tapley Who's warring?
December 16, 2011 at 8:53PM ESTJP
December 16, 2011 at 8:06PM EST Reply to CommentI don't think ELIC is dead. It has a much bigger potential to become a box office hit than War Horse. And actually the Globes shut out True Grit last year and it still managed to get 10 Oscar nominations.
forg But True Grit got SAG nods
December 16, 2011 at 9:35PM ESTchilledstate I think "True Grit" had raised decent buzz when the Golden Globes shut it out, while nothing on "Extremely Loud..."
December 16, 2011 at 9:42PM ESTMaybe the general audience will respond to this film better than the critics. As far as I read the reactions on twitters who saw the film, reporters seem to like it a lot. I'm not sure about its chance at the Oscar, but it'll probably do okay on the box office.
JP Forg, you are right: True Grit got 2 SAG nods, but no Ensemble.
December 16, 2011 at 11:03PM ESTChilledstate, you mentioned the most important factor why I think ELIC can enter the BP race. I think the audiences will put it there. And although True Grit made a LOT of money (171 millions in the US), it was put in the race because of the stellar reviews and the prestige the Cohen Brothers have. If the audiences respond well to ELIC, I think it's in. At least Max Von Sydow should be in. One of the best actors of all time being left out of the race in favor of Johah Hill or Armie Hammer.
JP Think ELIC is in for WGA and the PGA top 10 should be exactly the films listed on Best Picture by In Contention with the addition of Tree of Life and Harry Potter. The DGA is more difficult because Hazanavicus, Payne and Scorcese are in. Spielberg most possibly also. And I guess they will reward Tree of Life here nominating Malick. Woody Allen is a spoiler just like Daldry, but I think those last two are not getting in.
December 16, 2011 at 11:08PM ESTchilledstate JP, the problem is that ELIC will get wide release only on Jan 20. I'm not certain when the deadline of the Oscar voting, but will the Academy members wait to see how it does on BO? I doubt it. I think it'll have a chance if there are 10 pics for BP, but as they change that to uncertain numbers, I'd say it may not cut in.
December 17, 2011 at 12:46AM ESTI still hope Max von Sydoh will get in, but he wasn't by SAG, so it'll be hard.
curious
December 16, 2011 at 10:48PM EST Reply to CommentHey Kris... can you let me know if the scene from the book (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close)...
SPOILER - SPOILER - SPOILER
...with the animals being shot at the zoo in a flashback is in the film? What scenes (if any) with animals are in the film?
END OF SPOILER - END OF SPOILER - END OF SPOILER
chilledstate SPOILER
December 17, 2011 at 12:41AM ESTSorry to jump in, but there is no animals from Dresden in the movie. The German part is only mentioned briefly through Max von Sydoh's character.
Curious Oh, I guess it's changed from the book then. So the whole film takes place in New York with no flashbacks?
December 17, 2011 at 11:26PM ESTHoustonRufus
December 17, 2011 at 2:58AM EST Reply to CommentKris, you're obviously taking alot of heat on your GWTDT position, but I admire you for sticking to your guns. I absolutely believe the movie should stand on its own.
Dan
December 17, 2011 at 12:28PM EST Reply to CommentI'm not sure how a movie where one character is raped and the central storyline involves a bunch of mutilated girls could possibly fail in mentioning that violence toward women might be an issue, in Sweden or otherwise.
scott
December 17, 2011 at 3:58PM EST Reply to Commenthey there, i was just wondering what happend to vanessa redgrave? is she out now?
CSnow
December 17, 2011 at 6:05PM EST Reply to Commenti'm surprised the discussion about "Tattoo" in the podcast didn't mention the original swedish movie version at all. because the sweidsh film version did not give me the "misogyny" feel one bit. even though i haven't seen the Fincher version, even the trailer and posters gave me a bit of that. so i can see where Kris' coming from.
so Kris, i'm wondering if you had the same feeling about the Swedish movie version?
and, honestly, i thought Rapace was the biggest snub for best actress that year too.
Kristopher Tapley Never saw it.
December 17, 2011 at 7:53PM ESTCSnow Kris, in that case, would you consider watching the swedish version and do a compare review? and i'm also curious to see how many reviewers and critics will factor in that version in their review of the Fincher version.
December 17, 2011 at 11:48PM ESTJJ1 I know I SHOULDN'T feel this way (especially because I haven't seen Fincher's version yet), but I continue to fight the urge to side-eye how Mara will portray Lisbeth, simply because Noomi Rapace made the role cinematic and was awesome.
December 18, 2011 at 12:41AM ESTjohn
December 18, 2011 at 2:17AM EST Reply to CommentKris, is there a place where you have all the precursors listed, like you had on the old site?
Dan
December 18, 2011 at 2:32PM EST Reply to Comment"Dragon Tattoo" is currently at 94% on RT. You're going to have your work cut out for you, Kris.
Kristopher Tapley What work? I'm pretty much done talking about it. I'm always happy when others enjoy a film, though, whether I do or not. And besides, I gave up on the critics as an indication of anything LONG ago. The amount of times group-think and lazy critique takes over the critical mass is legendary at this point.
December 18, 2011 at 3:30PM ESTAlisa
December 19, 2011 at 12:39PM EST Reply to CommentAfter listening to the podcast I am a thousand % agree with Kristopher Tapley in perception of the GWDT story not standing well on its own as a film; agree with the "misogyny parade as a girl power" take on the girl's "stock" character, and strongly sympathize with Kristopher's feeling of sadness about David Fincher wasting time on Part 2 and possibly 3. P.S. I didn't read the book (and I don't have to), but I saw the entire Swedish trilogy.
Alisa
December 19, 2011 at 12:53PM EST Reply to CommentAfter listening to the podcast I am a thousand % agree with Kristopher Tapley in perception of the GWDT story not standing well on its own as a film; agree with the "misogyny parade as a girl power" take on the girl's "stock" character, and strongly sympathize with Kristopher's feeling of sadness about David Fincher wasting time on Part 2 and possibly 3. P.S. I didn't read the book (and I don't have to), but I saw the entire Swedish trilogy.