Oscar Talk: Ep. 63 -- Digging into the supporting categories, from George Clooney to Melissa McCarthy

Also: Urging you to see '50/50' and 'Take Shelter' and discussing the box office of films like 'Drive,' 'Warrior' and 'Moneyball'

By Kristopher Tapley Friday, Sep 30, 2011 11:57 AM

Oscar Talk: Ep. 63 -- Digging into the supporting categories

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Welcome to Oscar Talk.

In case you're new to the site and/or the podcast, Oscar Talk is a weekly kudocast, your one-stop awards chat shop between yours truly and Anne Thompson of Thompson on Hollywood. The podcast is weekly, every Friday throughout the season, charting the ups and downs of contenders along the way. Plenty of things change en route to Oscar's stage and we're here to address it all as it unfolds.

With the early fall tests behind us, we stand on the precipice of October. The New York film fest is just around the corner with London fest not far behind. We're very much off to the races, but also very much in our bubble right now, seeing a number of films that Academy members and even industry sorts haven't gotten around to yet. So that's the echo chamber for you. A few more weeks of that and finally the few voices will turn into a more rousing chorus. Now, let's see what's on the docket today...

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Opening today are "50/50" and "Take Shelter," two films we heartily endorse and have talked about at length before. We give both another once over before urging you to go check them out this weekend.

It's about time we start diving into some Oscar categories on the podcast. So we start today by first chewing on the Best Supporting Actor category...

…before moving on to the supporting ladies.

We touch on the box office performance of films like "Drive," "Warrior" and "Moneyball."

Finally, reader questions, which we've been skimping on a bit lately. We address a few of them through the podcast and a few more at the end.

Have a listen to the new podcast below with a little of Chris Cornell's "The Keeper," from "Machine Gun Preacher" (expanding wider this weekend) leading the way. If the file cuts off for you at any time, try the back-up download link at the bottom of this post. And as always, remember to subscribe to Oscar Talk via iTunes here.

OSCAR TALK: Ep. 63

Kristopher Tapley
Editor-at-Large

Kristopher Tapley has covered the film awards landscape for over a decade. He founded In Contention in 2005. His work has also appeared in The New York Times, The Times of London and Variety. He begs you not to take any of this too seriously.

Related Searches: Moneyball, Drive, Warrior, Take Shelter, 50/50, Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress, Academy Awards, Oscar Talk, In Contention

Oscar Guide 2013 - A new category previewed every day until the big show

Maxim

One quick correction: Clooney didn't win Best Supporting Actor for "Good Night and Good Luck", he won for "Syrianna". I'm sure Anne knows that though.
September 30, 2011 at 12:38PM EST Reply to Comment
- Kristopher Tapley I somehow glossed past that, too. But indeed, we're aware. ;)
  September 30, 2011 at 1:03PM EST
Maxim

OMG, Anne is favor of hazing. HAZ-ING.
September 30, 2011 at 12:44PM EST Reply to Comment
/3rt

The music at the end of the podcast-- where's it from?
September 30, 2011 at 12:47PM EST Reply to Comment
- Kristopher Tapley Mychael Danna's beautiful, underrated score from Moneyball.
  September 30, 2011 at 1:02PM EST
- rustyreub I second that question? Where's it from?? "Ides of March"?
  September 30, 2011 at 5:31PM EST
- rustyreub Nevermind.
  September 30, 2011 at 5:31PM EST
Coffeysr

Wow, I totally disagree with Anne in her thinking the Supporting Actress race is more stacked than Lead. A race with Meryl Streep and Clenn Close in it is nothing to scoff at. By the sounds of it, you guys aren't rating Nobbs as an Oscar win for Close?
September 30, 2011 at 2:05PM EST Reply to Comment
Will

I won't step back into the supporting actor debate you guys have, because I don't think either of you will ever change your mind. Haha. But I'm on Kris' side in this.

I also agree that it's silly to use the 'they haven't even seen these movies' argument. That's why it's a prediction. It's not THAT serious. It's just an educated guess based on previous outcomes with an understanding that nothing is ever 100%.
September 30, 2011 at 2:33PM EST Reply to Comment
Matt

Hey Kris - Love the OT. Just a note that Anne comes in much louder and clearer (literally) than you each time. Just letting you know.
September 30, 2011 at 2:38PM EST Reply to Comment
- Mark Matt, what does OT mean?
  September 30, 2011 at 4:02PM EST
- Kristopher Tapley Well aware. It's because she uses a different mic than me. I generally try to adjust in editing. I do my best.
  September 30, 2011 at 5:31PM EST
john Stark

Using Anne's ideas about who is deserving of a lead and supporting nod, how do you explain Precious. I would explain it as for once the Academy got it right. They overlook the fact that Gabourey Sidibe has never acted in a film before and gave her the nom she deserves, which is Lead Actress. True Grit was Hailee's story, Tree of Life is Hunter's story, but the problem for the Academy is they have stars in their eyes. They have trouble seeing past the bigger names in the film, which Precious didn't have.
September 30, 2011 at 2:51PM EST Reply to Comment
- /3rt Age. No one wants to nominate children in the lead acting categories. Sidibe is in her 20s, the ripe age for Best Actress.
  September 30, 2011 at 5:39PM EST
- Guy Lodge The obvious name to bring up here is Keisha Castle-Hughes, an inarguable lead performance from a 13 year-old actress that was nonetheless campaigned in supporting by the studio.
  
  The Screen Actors' Guild fell for the campaign. The Academy didn't, and nominated her in Best Actress, where she belonged. Would be interested to know if Anne thinks the studio did the right thing there.
  October 1, 2011 at 6:05AM EST
- JJ1 YES, to Guy.
  October 1, 2011 at 7:34AM EST
- Danny Same analogy applies to EL&IC. After seeing the movie, I doubt even Anne could argue Thomas Horn's is a supporting performance. He is in 99% of the movie, and all the other (famous) actors are in 40% at most (Sydow) or much much less. Unfortunately, the way Oscar politics works, Horn's chances would be better if he were considered in Supporting. Keisha rightly was considered in lead and got through in a year where there was relatively less competition in lead actress. This year the Best Actor line-up is so strong already with several more high profile candidates in the pipeline; unless EC&IL and Horn make a HUGE impact, I don't see a nom happening for him. He's quite good though. Unless the movie flops and disappears with a whimper (doubtful) the kids is about to be shot out of a cannon, metaphorically speaking.
  October 1, 2011 at 9:26AM EST
Matt

Maggie Smith won not ERW.
September 30, 2011 at 2:52PM EST Reply to Comment
john Stark

Also, Marlee Matlin had never acted in a film when she stole Sigourney Weaver's Aliens Oscar, for A Children of a Lesser God.
September 30, 2011 at 3:06PM EST Reply to Comment
john Stark

A few more from recent years: Keisha Castle-Hughes and Catalina Sandino Moreno are two more example of the Academy having no other big stars to get in the way of giving the films true lead her due. They both had never acted before and both were children.
September 30, 2011 at 3:33PM EST Reply to Comment
john Stark

And Lastly... Here are two performances that Won the Oscar, but for the wrong category. 2006's "The Last King of Scotland" Forest Whitaker should have won for Best Supporting not Best Lead. The films story belongs to James McAvoy, who was also deserving of a nod, but ultimately I would have given the Best Actor award to Peter O'Toole for "Venus"
Also in 2006's "Dreamgirls" Jennifer Hudson could be considered a Lead Performance, but because she was new to the film biz, she was relegated to a Supporting Nod. Had the Academy put her in the Lead Actress race she would have lost to Helen Mirren, so I guess that worked in her favor.
Just my two cents.
September 30, 2011 at 3:44PM EST Reply to Comment
- /3rt Hudson's performance isn't strong enough to find support outside of supporting.
  September 30, 2011 at 5:42PM EST
Laura Stewart

Justice for JGL!! Preach it Anne!
September 30, 2011 at 4:02PM EST Reply to Comment
JJ1

I know it's easy to make lists like these, but I don't think Lead is particularly weak:

Meryl Streep, Glenn Close, Charlize Theron, Viola Davis, Michelle Williams, Tilda Swinton, Elizabeth Olsen, Felicity Jones, Rachel Weisz, Michelle Yeoh, Emily Watson, Rooney Mara, Jodie Foster, Kirsten Dunst, Juliette Binoche, etc.

That's a good 15 that I think could seriously factor into the 5 with solid campaigns.
September 30, 2011 at 4:48PM EST Reply to Comment
- Kristopher Tapley It's weak for actual viable contenders.
  September 30, 2011 at 5:33PM EST
- JJ1 gotcha
  September 30, 2011 at 5:46PM EST
- HoustonRufus Yeah, of those listed, all wonderful actresses, by the way, I can really only say Streep, Close and Davis are almost certainly in. But the Actor category makes my head hurt. No matter who is nominated for Best Actor this year, I'll be using all sort of profanity because I know several performances I cherish won't make the cut.
  September 30, 2011 at 8:24PM EST
- Danny I would add Vera Farmiga in Higher Ground to that list, with Kris's comment as the obligatory caveat.
  October 1, 2011 at 9:34AM EST
Laura Stewart

Regarding the whole January-January journey, Michelle Williams did it for Blue Valentine. I get she has more credibility and exposure than the cast of MMMM, but it's worth mentioning. Anne didn't mention her.
September 30, 2011 at 5:10PM EST Reply to Comment
Fitz

Thanks for getting my question in there, Kris. I know I put it up two weeks in a row.

Leagues better than Winter's Bone? That's heartening.
September 30, 2011 at 5:36PM EST Reply to Comment
- Kristopher Tapley But I wasn't a Winter's Bone fan, so...
  September 30, 2011 at 8:10PM EST
- m1 Unless you REALLY hated Winter's Bone, I think that you should try watching it again. It holds up so well, and it's not a film most people would think of revisiting in the first place.
  October 2, 2011 at 4:18PM EST
- JJ1 I was not high on Winter's Bone after the first viewing. And I still think it's very overrated. BUT, I must agree with M1 that on a re-watch (because I wanted to see if I was losing my mind - based on the amazing reviews), the film did improve quite a bit, for me. I still don't think it's overly special.
  October 2, 2011 at 4:33PM EST
Graysmith

At this point in the race, predictions are based on what’s most likely to be nominated. So when you’ve got Meryl Streep, the most Oscar-nominated actress of all time, playing a famous person the odds of her being nominated are pretty high. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen, doesn’t mean you think she’s going to win it’s just that you’re foolish to bet against it until you know more. Same thing with War Horse. It’s Spielberg, a war movie, a period drama. You’re a fool to not think this is a huge contender until the cards are on the table.
September 30, 2011 at 5:50PM EST Reply to Comment
loyal_mehnert

Any news on Pariah Kris? I've had it on my Best Actress list since Sundance. A story of a lesbian black teenager, with a proper push from Focus Adepero Oduye could be this year's Gabourey Sidibe. But I haven't heard anything lately about the film.
September 30, 2011 at 6:02PM EST Reply to Comment
- Kristopher Tapley I keep missing screenings. I hear it's good but I don't know about awards. Maybe Indie Spirits.
  September 30, 2011 at 8:10PM EST
HoustonRufus

Very much enjoyed the discussion.
September 30, 2011 at 8:21PM EST Reply to Comment
- JJ1 Ditto. And Anne's continuing to back her Lead/Supporting theory is showing some cracks.
  
  She couldn't differentiate between the ideology that Pitt being Lead makes sense in AMPAS world, and what her actual "opinion" would be. Right?
  
  The hushed chuckles, the pauses, the hesitations. I don't get it. Does her theory and her opinion match?
  September 30, 2011 at 9:33PM EST
Evan

I love JGL. However-- in semi-defense of his critics, don't you think that the marketing for his next film Premium Rush certainly raises questions about his acting/film choices? It's like the Eddie Murphy Dreamgirls/Norbit transition, except that the trailer for the second film has come out before the release of the first, highly-acclaimed film.
September 30, 2011 at 11:52PM EST Reply to Comment
Ross Jones

I think it's totally fine to handicap a movie you haven't seen. You still know something about it - the director, the cast, the screenplay. It's not nothing. It bugs me when people say that Kris is opening himself up to look a fool if War Horse doesn't deliver. This is nonsense. Even if War Horse is terribly, that doesn't necessarily make invalidate Kris's analysis of the available information at the time.
October 1, 2011 at 1:40AM EST Reply to Comment
Guy Lodge

Can't help thinking Anne is letting her more reserved personal opinion of 'Martha Marcy May Marlene' (countered with her adoration of 'Winter's Bone') get in the way of this discussion -- I'm not saying it's an easy Oscar get by any means, but to fall back on the fact that it's a debut feature as a reason why she doesn't think people will connect with it doesn't really fly. (And come on, 'Down to the Bone' may have been quite well-received on a tiny scale, but how many Academy members were really familiar with Debra Granik's work when they put 'Winter's Bone' on their ballots? When it comes to modest indies like this, it's the movie that has to sell itself, not the director.)

In one sense, 'Martha''s genre trappings make it more appealing to a certain audience than 'Winter's Bone' -- again, not saying that audience is the Academy, but I think it's risky to take people's reactions to a film this widely acclaimed so for granted. I feel comparatively bullish about Olsen's chances.

Also, I'm curious to know why Berenice Bejo is so swiftly dismissed -- she's a gorgeous ingenue doing expressive work in what is pretty much a lead role, and we know Harvey Weinstein is going for a big haul of nominations for 'The Artist'. Why would she not get swept along?

Anyway, great listen, as always.
October 1, 2011 at 6:28AM EST Reply to Comment
- JJ1 I completely agree with both things you said, Guy.
  
  1) I don't quite know why Anne had this fascination with Granik last year, but it really was something. As you said, before 'Down to the Bone', why would most people AMPAS-related know or care who she was when 'Winter's Bone' burst out?
  
  Her 1-2 punch of Granik/Cholodenko praise (while not unwarranted) drove me nuts last year. I swore she was getting paid for every name drop of 'Granik' or 'Cholodenko', haha.
  
  2) I haven't even seen The Artist yet, but from all reports I've read, Bejo is great. And it's an Oscary film being dangled by Weinstein. I also think she's a strong possibility.
  October 1, 2011 at 7:40AM EST
- Anne thompson Arguably winter's bone was also genre film, guy. I remain fascinated by how many people stick their necks out with confident positivity on films they have not yet seen! Meryl Streep has appeared in films that she did not get nominated for and phyllida Lloyd is a theater director who knows how to do stage musicals, and I am not confident about The Iron Lady.
  
  Glenn close and Gary old man both give very small, precise, calibrated, quiet performances that are by definition not loud and noisy. Thus the strength of their competitors will determine whether they make the cut. Tilda swinton, Kirsten dunst, and Elizabeth Olsen are in movies that may not be beloved by the academy. We have to see if critics push them into must- see status. I somehow doubt it. But if there's nothing else to vote for, they will!
  
  As for newcomer in lead vs. Supporting, this is case of age, scene time, who's better known, agreed. I feel strongly brad Pitt is lead for tree of life-- I object when distrib makes these calls on basis of what will win over what is. I will hold off on extremely loud until I see it! It's a case by case basis. I felt strongly that young hailee steinfeld belonged in supporting, jennifer Hudson too.
  
  Forgive typos.
  October 1, 2011 at 5:59PM EST
- Kristopher Tapley "what will win over what is."
  
  What "is," in The Tree of Life, is McCracken is lead, Pitt is supporting. :)
  October 1, 2011 at 11:20PM EST
- Casey Fiore Anne it seems as though you are saying the distinction between lead and supporting is purely about the status of the performer, and the role in the film itself is ultimately insignificant. This makes no sense for an award that is at least purportedly an honor for the best work in film over the past year, and not a statement about the career. By your standards, the award would need to be called "Best Star." The awards have very specific and meaningful titles: "Best Actor in a Leading Role" and "Best Actor in a Supporting Role". Your definition demeans the work in favor of the political standing of the star in Hollywood. If Hunter McCracken could not be a lead because his star isn't as big as Brad Pitt's then to maintain consistency in your argument an actor should be measured by his star status, not the strength of his performance. Count every foreign actor out.
  October 2, 2011 at 9:40AM EST
Augusta

It seems in the spirit of the game to predict when a movie will be good (when it has high probabilities of success, like Spielberg's Warhorse). But when there is a high probability of a movie being terrible, to predict it as a failure is unfair, unprofessional, ungenerous of spirit, and annoys the powerful people connected to the film.

There is a high probability that The Iron Lady will be just as awful a film as Mama Mia. Anne says she saw Mama Mia, Kris states he didn't. Mama Mia was a congealed mess. It had great actors in it: all of them looked bad, candidates for Razzies. If you watch Mama Mia, thinking of that same hand guiding a political drama/biography, you envision a shallow, incoherent, caricatured piece of flotsam.

The tactful and tactical thing to do when the probabilities are high that a movie will be an artistic and commercial failure, is to reserve judgment.
October 3, 2011 at 12:39PM EST Reply to Comment
- JJ1 Firstly, do I think 'Mamma Mia!' is garbage? Yes. But do I love it in spite of itself? Yes. {haha}
  
  But I do second most everything you just said, Augusta. Especially the last paragraph.
  October 3, 2011 at 2:17PM EST

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Best Supporting Actress

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Oscar Talk: Ep. 63 -- Digging into the supporting categories, from George Clooney to Melissa McCarthy

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Oscar Guide 2013 - A new category previewed every day until the big show

Best Picture

Best Director

Best Actor

Best Actress

Best Supporting Actor

Best Supporting Actress

Best Adapted Screenplay

Best Original Screenplay

Best Cinematography

Best Costume Design

Best Film Editing

Best Makeup And Hairstyling

Best Original Score

Best Original Song

Best Production Design

Best Sound Editing

Best Sound Mixing

Best Visual Effects

Best Animated Feature Film

Best Documentary Feature

Best Foreign Language Film

Comments

Option 1

Option 2

Option 3

Maxim One quick correction: Clooney didn't win Best Supporting Actor for "Good Night and Good Luck", he won for "Syrianna". I'm sure Anne knows that though.

Kristopher Tapley I somehow glossed past that, too. But indeed, we're aware. ;)

Maxim OMG, Anne is favor of hazing. HAZ-ING.

/3rt The music at the end of the podcast-- where's it from?

Kristopher Tapley Mychael Danna's beautiful, underrated score from Moneyball.

rustyreub I second that question? Where's it from?? "Ides of March"?

rustyreub Nevermind.

Coffeysr Wow, I totally disagree with Anne in her thinking the Supporting Actress race is more stacked than Lead. A race with Meryl Streep and Clenn Close in it is nothing to scoff at. By the sounds of it, you guys aren't rating Nobbs as an Oscar win for Close?

Matt Hey Kris - Love the OT. Just a note that Anne comes in much louder and clearer (literally) than you each time. Just letting you know.

Mark Matt, what does OT mean?

Kristopher Tapley Well aware. It's because she uses a different mic than me. I generally try to adjust in editing. I do my best.

/3rt Age. No one wants to nominate children in the lead acting categories. Sidibe is in her 20s, the ripe age for Best Actress.

JJ1 YES, to Guy.

Matt Maggie Smith won not ERW.

john Stark Also, Marlee Matlin had never acted in a film when she stole Sigourney Weaver's Aliens Oscar, for A Children of a Lesser God.

john Stark A few more from recent years: Keisha Castle-Hughes and Catalina Sandino Moreno are two more example of the Academy having no other big stars to get in the way of giving the films true lead her due. They both had never acted before and both were children.

/3rt Hudson's performance isn't strong enough to find support outside of supporting.

Laura Stewart Justice for JGL!! Preach it Anne!

Kristopher Tapley It's weak for actual viable contenders.

JJ1 gotcha

Danny I would add Vera Farmiga in Higher Ground to that list, with Kris's comment as the obligatory caveat.

Laura Stewart Regarding the whole January-January journey, Michelle Williams did it for Blue Valentine. I get she has more credibility and exposure than the cast of MMMM, but it's worth mentioning. Anne didn't mention her.

Fitz Thanks for getting my question in there, Kris. I know I put it up two weeks in a row.Leagues better than Winter's Bone? That's heartening.

Kristopher Tapley But I wasn't a Winter's Bone fan, so...

m1 Unless you REALLY hated Winter's Bone, I think that you should try watching it again. It holds up so well, and it's not a film most people would think of revisiting in the first place.

loyal_mehnert Any news on Pariah Kris? I've had it on my Best Actress list since Sundance. A story of a lesbian black teenager, with a proper push from Focus Adepero Oduye could be this year's Gabourey Sidibe. But I haven't heard anything lately about the film.

Kristopher Tapley I keep missing screenings. I hear it's good but I don't know about awards. Maybe Indie Spirits.

HoustonRufus Very much enjoyed the discussion.

Kristopher Tapley "what will win over what is."What "is," in The Tree of Life, is McCracken is lead, Pitt is supporting. :)

JJ1 Firstly, do I think 'Mamma Mia!' is garbage? Yes. But do I love it in spite of itself? Yes. {haha}But I do second most everything you just said, Augusta. Especially the last paragraph.

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2012-2013 OSCAR PREDICTIONS

Best Picture

Best Director

Best Actor

Best Actress

Best Supporting Actor

Best Supporting Actress

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Academy Awards is updated

Maxim

One quick correction: Clooney didn't win Best Supporting Actor for "Good Night and Good Luck", he won for "Syrianna". I'm sure Anne knows that though.

Maxim

OMG, Anne is favor of hazing. HAZ-ING.

/3rt

The music at the end of the podcast-- where's it from?

Coffeysr

Wow, I totally disagree with Anne in her thinking the Supporting Actress race is more stacked than Lead. A race with Meryl Streep and Clenn Close in it is nothing to scoff at. By the sounds of it, you guys aren't rating Nobbs as an Oscar win for Close?

Matt

Hey Kris - Love the OT. Just a note that Anne comes in much louder and clearer (literally) than you each time. Just letting you know.

Matt

Maggie Smith won not ERW.

john Stark

Also, Marlee Matlin had never acted in a film when she stole Sigourney Weaver's Aliens Oscar, for A Children of a Lesser God.

john Stark

A few more from recent years: Keisha Castle-Hughes and Catalina Sandino Moreno are two more example of the Academy having no other big stars to get in the way of giving the films true lead her due. They both had never acted before and both were children.

Laura Stewart

Justice for JGL!! Preach it Anne!

Laura Stewart

Regarding the whole January-January journey, Michelle Williams did it for Blue Valentine. I get she has more credibility and exposure than the cast of MMMM, but it's worth mentioning. Anne didn't mention her.

Fitz

Thanks for getting my question in there, Kris. I know I put it up two weeks in a row.

Leagues better than Winter's Bone? That's heartening.

loyal_mehnert

Any news on Pariah Kris? I've had it on my Best Actress list since Sundance. A story of a lesbian black teenager, with a proper push from Focus Adepero Oduye could be this year's Gabourey Sidibe. But I haven't heard anything lately about the film.

HoustonRufus

Very much enjoyed the discussion.

Kristopher Tapley "what will win over what is."

What "is," in The Tree of Life, is McCracken is lead, Pitt is supporting. :)

JJ1 Firstly, do I think 'Mamma Mia!' is garbage? Yes. But do I love it in spite of itself? Yes. {haha}

But I do second most everything you just said, Augusta. Especially the last paragraph.

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